Guild Wars 2

Seriously? 0/0/10/30/30 with full Cleric…for pve

The least he could do is max/min the gear so he does some kind of meanfuling damage, and still have plenty of support.

What makes it worse are the comments, people are really going to run this. If you are really thinking about doing this, at least mix in some Zealot gear so you do some type of damage.

He also said Vigorous Precision is useless. Vigor equals more dodging. More dodging equals damage mitigation and Selfless Daring.

“And if you think this looks good, wait until you see its full potential.”

I only watched 20 seconds and was thinking how bad it looked. He didn’t pull the golems together in Uncategorized, he was meleeing Archdiviner without using blocks or even trying to dodge his hammer smash, not using los when the rest of his team was (in the first 20 seconds!). I’d rather not learn guardian from a bad guardian.

Wow, I just decided to read the comments. This player base does not know this game…

I’m not watching the video or going to get into the normal politics of best PvE practices, but perhaps he was just demonstrating the possibility of personal face tanking.

/shrug.

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

I’m not watching the video or going to get into the normal politics of best PvE practices, but perhaps he was just demonstrating the possibility of personal face tanking.

/shrug.

I’ll play along and pretend that’s a good thing for a second. So then why not pull the golems together? It’s pretty standard that that’s the guardians job there. Heck, then he could prove his true awesomeness and face tank them all together, lol. Maybe the whole point of clerics is to go slow and improve the chances for a wipe, so pulling them together would go against that philosophy.

That was bad guardian play regardless of build.

/shrug

Anyway, we’ve already seen the videos of not dodging alpha in Clerics, even running entire paths without dodging and only using auto attacks. We already know it takes no skill to run in that gear, we really don’t need more proof.

Easily the best build I’ve ever seen. Bravo.

So even though 100% up-time on dps with a tank/support guardian is also unrealistic you are still going to leave it up there for a numbers comparison? This build is a solid support build, but its best used in a pug where you can act as a crutch. Focused more on DPS and boon duration you will complete runs easier, but they will be less forgiving than if you ran this build.

This games pve is such trash =/

@Iaharl, from the commentary here, sounds like he does play bad. Also, maybe the guy hasn’t seen Clerics before. Or perhaps he just wanted to make a video. Truthfully, Painbow shouldn’t have even brought this into light here on this forum if people are tired of seeing Cleric videos, despite the sarcastic tones to it.

@Dynnen, agreed on the pve content comment. As much as they tried to do away with the traditional mmo trinity play, Anet shouldn’t have completely done away with it altogether. A hybrid mix of what they have now and trinity play would’ve been 10x better and we wouldn’t be seeing such a strict meta with gear/build.

All DPS all the time, dodge and downed state are your heal. This game was great at the start but it hasn’t changed at all or balanced itself since then. So now we have this hardline meta in every aspect of the game that isn’t going to change because anet is afraid of changing it for some reason. Like the healing signet ‘nerf’ thats coming…lol

Funny how credulous people are impressed by his math about “dps uptime” when the numbers are completely made up and have no bearing on reality.

There is one set of numbers that are not arguable: kill times/clear times. Nemesis can pick any boss. We will do a full berserker kill of that boss. Then we will give him a week to beat our time with that kitten build in the group “tanking.” When he beats our kill time he can talk about DPS uptime numbers.

Good luck!

@Tree
According to him those speedclear guilds can only achieve that because they exploit the game, using illegal tactics such as stacking, skipping, turning off the autotargeting and melee atack assist from the options menu.

I remember reading a comment from the player fadeaway, who made that spreadsheet with dps from different guardian builds, he said that with a clerics guardian he was more useful in pug groups in fotm that lacked skill or something, so maybe a tank guardian may be useful for pugging.

Casmurro.9046:

@Tree
According to him those speedclear guilds can only achieve that because they exploit the game, using illegal tactics such as stacking, skipping, turning off the autotargeting and melee atack assist from the options menu.

I remember reading a comment from the player fadeaway, who made that spreadsheet with dps from different guardian builds, he said that with a clerics guardian he was more useful in pug groups in fotm that lacked skill or something, so maybe a tank guardian may be useful for pugging.

Illegal tactics such as turning off options that Anet gives you to use or not use? …. wha?

People on the boards have said stuff like stacking is an exploit, because umm… they don’t like it.

Just more people to kick from my groups, shrug, builds like these are half the reason I dislike casuals and pugs in general.

I really hope the people who watch this video realise how useless the spec is in PvE and go read Obal’s DPS guide.

Obal’s got some good builds. Hes my dawg ya know? I’d bury my bone in his backyard

Bash.7291:

Illegal tactics such as turning off options that Anet gives you to use or not use? …. wha?

Yeah, he commented about that 50k WW that obal did with his guardian, he said that was possible because of an exploit, where you turn off your melee atack assist so you can enter in the mob’kittenbox and do that crazy damage, he used the same argument for the fiery gs against a wall.

Bringing more blinds/aegis/reflects to your party is more beneficial than this… If you want to be supportive at least use a hammer build, perma protection with decent dps is better than healing especially since protection is independent of stats. The idea with a guardian is that we have the most defensive stat independent options for group play.

At around 42 min into the clip you note “it’s funny people still died with all the healing I bring…” This should kinda clue you into the fact that you aren’t being that helpful. With gs s/f you bring cc (binding blade) and ways to avoid damage (3 blinds, personal block focus 5). All of these are completely independent of stats.

In short, avoiding damage >>>>>>>>>> healing. Since ways to avoid damage in this game are independent of stats it makes much more sense to utilize those and stack offensive stats. It’s literally the best of both worlds. It really hurts my head that people don’t get this.

gpassucc.5961:

Bringing more blinds/aegis/reflects to your party is more beneficial than this… If you want to be supportive at least use a hammer build, perma protection with decent dps is better than healing especially since protection is independent of stats. The idea with a guardian is that we have the most defensive stat independent options for group play.

At around 42 min into the clip you note “it’s funny people still died with all the healing I bring…” This should kinda clue you into the fact that you aren’t being that helpful. With gs s/f you bring cc (binding blade) and ways to avoid damage (3 blinds, personal block focus 5). All of these are completely independent of stats.

In short, avoiding damage >>>>>>>>>> healing. Since ways to avoid damage in this game are independent of stats it makes much more sense to utilize those and stack offensive stats. It’s literally the best of both worlds. It really hurts my head that people don’t get this.

People won’t get it because they don’t want too. They are to stuck on the hard trinity effect to believe that they can’t play a game as a healer. No matter how many times we prove it isn’t a good idea in pve.

gpassucc.5961:

At around 42 min into the clip you note “it’s funny people still died with all the healing I bring…” This should kinda clue you into the fact that you aren’t being that helpful. With gs s/f you bring cc (binding blade) and ways to avoid damage (3 blinds, personal block focus 5). All of these are completely independent of stats.

I was skimming the video and I just reached that point and wanted to post but you beat me to it.

“You can’t survive without my healing”; and then proceeds to lose half his health. Yea…

Also, just had to throw this in there… to quote the OP himself on the usefulness of this build:

Painbow.6059:

Why you wouldn’t want to use zerker and knowingly be worse than others is beyond me… https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Guide-DPS-Guardian-for-PVE/first

Gives all the support you need along with great dps, sustain comes from playing ability, and of course full zerker everything, healing power in dungeons just harms your team more than anything and people who use it are bad

Think you should take some pointers from yourself O.o

gpassucc.5961:

Also, just had to throw this in there… to quote the OP himself on the usefulness of this build:

Painbow.6059:

Why you wouldn’t want to use zerker and knowingly be worse than others is beyond me… https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Guide-DPS-Guardian-for-PVE/first

Gives all the support you need along with great dps, sustain comes from playing ability, and of course full zerker everything, healing power in dungeons just harms your team more than anything and people who use it are bad

Think you should take some pointers from yourself O.o

I am truly sorry that the sarcasm wasn’t so obvious

Casmurro.9046:

Bash.7291:

Illegal tactics such as turning off options that Anet gives you to use or not use? …. wha?

Yeah, he commented about that 50k WW that obal did with his guardian, he said that was possible because of an exploit, where you turn off your melee atack assist so you can enter in the mob’kittenbox and do that crazy damage, he used the same argument for the fiery gs against a wall.

……. Ok I watched his “anti-meta” build video. And I really have to question if he has EVER played any other MMO. Stacking in a corner to LoS and group mobs, yeah do that in other games. AoE DPS said mobs down, do that in other games. Skip mobs, when was the last time anyone ever did a raid in WoW that full cleared the ENTIRE instance by choice. As far as the hitbox thing, WvW and sPvP are pretty much unplayable without it turned off, since you will be stopping everytime you get near an enemy, let alone a zerg.

I really think he needs to figure out that just because he calls them “exploits” does not mean that is the case. It honestly feels like the old days of Diablo 2 when people would cry “HACKER” just because they didn’t like how things turned out and felt they were cheated when they weren’t.

Thank you for setting the New Meta and by posting this masterpiece build. You know, we need more people like you in the game. People that enjoy standing 30 minutes killing Lupicus or 5 hours on a fractals level 20. That’s true love by the game. Keep posting, don’t stop!

I’m tired of elitists (and their builds) cleaning dungeons so fast that I can’t even discover the bosses mechanics by ranging them.

That’s some good trolling OP, good trolling…

Bash.7291:

Casmurro.9046:

Bash.7291:

Illegal tactics such as turning off options that Anet gives you to use or not use? …. wha?

Yeah, he commented about that 50k WW that obal did with his guardian, he said that was possible because of an exploit, where you turn off your melee atack assist so you can enter in the mob’kittenbox and do that crazy damage, he used the same argument for the fiery gs against a wall.

……. Ok I watched his “anti-meta” build video. And I really have to question if he has EVER played any other MMO. Stacking in a corner to LoS and group mobs, yeah do that in other games. AoE DPS said mobs down, do that in other games. Skip mobs, when was the last time anyone ever did a raid in WoW that full cleared the ENTIRE instance by choice. As far as the hitbox thing, WvW and sPvP are pretty much unplayable without it turned off, since you will be stopping everytime you get near an enemy, let alone a zerg.

I really think he needs to figure out that just because he calls them “exploits” does not mean that is the case. It honestly feels like the old days of Diablo 2 when people would cry “HACKER” just because they didn’t like how things turned out and felt they were cheated when they weren’t.

Too bad we can’t use the Dup trick in GW2!

I’m not trying to justify the guy, but going inside the hitbox does feel exploitish. I think it’s a bug that Anet decided wasn’t important enough to fix.

Casmurro.9046:

@Tree
According to him those speedclear guilds can only achieve that because they exploit the game, using illegal tactics such as stacking, skipping, turning off the autotargeting and melee atack assist from the options menu.

I remember reading a comment from the player fadeaway, who made that spreadsheet with dps from different guardian builds, he said that with a clerics guardian he was more useful in pug groups in fotm that lacked skill or something, so maybe a tank guardian may be useful for pugging.

Wrong on both counts.

First part, turning off auto targeting and melee assist are options in the options menu. They are not exploits. This is how the game works. He wants to pretend that they are exploits because it ruins his fantasy immersion experience. Sorry, but a person’s RP considerations and cinematic experience are not what the earth revolves around.

Second, pugs have bad dps. You don’t improve their bad dps by bringing a character with negative DPS. The only way that a tank Guardian could at all be effective is if you could control aggro with taunt mechanics or some other way to ensure you took all the aggro. Since you can’t control aggro, the entire concept of having a tank is beyond meaningless.

In the end, the game is based around active combat: learn the boss moves, dodge them. Heal yourself when you make a mistake. Do a much damage as you can while doing so. Buff your teammates as much as you can. It isn’t insanely complicated and we all figured it out over a year ago. Not sure why Nemesis, who has thousands of hours in game, cannot figure this out.

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Bash.7291:

Casmurro.9046:

Bash.7291:

Illegal tactics such as turning off options that Anet gives you to use or not use? …. wha?

Yeah, he commented about that 50k WW that obal did with his guardian, he said that was possible because of an exploit, where you turn off your melee atack assist so you can enter in the mob’kittenbox and do that crazy damage, he used the same argument for the fiery gs against a wall.

……. Ok I watched his “anti-meta” build video. And I really have to question if he has EVER played any other MMO. Stacking in a corner to LoS and group mobs, yeah do that in other games. AoE DPS said mobs down, do that in other games. Skip mobs, when was the last time anyone ever did a raid in WoW that full cleared the ENTIRE instance by choice. As far as the hitbox thing, WvW and sPvP are pretty much unplayable without it turned off, since you will be stopping everytime you get near an enemy, let alone a zerg.

I really think he needs to figure out that just because he calls them “exploits” does not mean that is the case. It honestly feels like the old days of Diablo 2 when people would cry “HACKER” just because they didn’t like how things turned out and felt they were cheated when they weren’t.

Too bad we can’t use the Dup trick in GW2!

I’m not trying to justify the guy, but going inside the hitbox does feel exploitish. I think it’s a bug that Anet decided wasn’t important enough to fix.

I don’t really think its a bug though, I mean, look at WW damage if you couldn’t do that, you couldn’t even land with the number of projectiles that even the damage tooltip indicates in the number of hits. But still, other mechanics he lists as “exploits” have been in pretty much every MMO, and are more of a strategy than anything. It is almost like saying that hiding behind a wall in WvW waiting for the enemy to come grouped up through a choke point is an exploit…

Also as a note, i could care less about the current “meta” Personally I hope they do change it away from zerker everything, but until they either break down and offer a chance to heal people (aka bring back part of the trinity) or make it so that more out right mitigation is needed, It won’t happen. And though people are free to make their own choice on what they play, there is only so much that can be argued about how efficient a build can be in PvE content.

However, it really is not the zerker meta that is the issue though, it is the elitist attitude that people take in regards to dungeons and needing to clear it as fast as possible. This happens in every game though, and just comes down to finding people to run at what speed you like.

Bash.7291:

However, it really is not the zerker meta that is the issue though, it is the elitist attitude that people take in regards to dungeons and needing to clear it as fast as possible. This happens in every game though, and just comes down to finding people to run at what speed you like.

Basically this.

I don’t often do PvE with my guardian but when I do, I do it in cleric’s ‘cause the people I run with don’t care.

Has anyone else noticed how the past few living story updates have mobs with new mechanics? A lot of the mechanics seem to be hinting at a change in how mobs will generally function. So you can’t just stack or los to be successful.

Here are a few new mechanics I remember off hand:

1. The mob on the marionette platform that required players to hit it from behind, since its front was shielded.

2. The hologram fight has a enemy that is weak to conditions but strong vs physical damage.

3. The knights have unblockable skills, which makes it impossible for squishies to use active defenses to survive.

4. One of prime hologram’s attacks can’t be dodged or blocked. Only invul works or raw mitigation.

To me it seems that these last few updates have been sort of a test bed for new mechanics that attempt to lessen the zerker dominance.

flanking mobs is actually optimal play for 2 berserker classes (thief/ranger)

I’d agree that the other changes are to reduce power build dominance but they’re not well-implemented…

the condi hologram is stupid because of the condition cap, making it take a disproportionately longer time to kill than the other two. I’m all for increasing condi viability in pve (as long as with equally squishy stats) but I think it’s too early to implement such bosses. this would make more sense in a small-party fight where only 1 member needs to specialise in condi and split off from the rest.

unavoidable damage is lazy game design. there’s a difference between many fast-hitting attacks (eg fractal trash, encouraging the use of weakness) and attacks that can only be survived by going tanky.

whatever it is I think anet has a long way to go before it can reduce power build dominance (and is it even a goal worth aiming for? eventually people will still run minimal defenses in order to be fast)

Bash.7291:

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Bash.7291:

Casmurro.9046:

Bash.7291:

Illegal tactics such as turning off options that Anet gives you to use or not use? …. wha?

Yeah, he commented about that 50k WW that obal did with his guardian, he said that was possible because of an exploit, where you turn off your melee atack assist so you can enter in the mob’kittenbox and do that crazy damage, he used the same argument for the fiery gs against a wall.

……. Ok I watched his “anti-meta” build video. And I really have to question if he has EVER played any other MMO. Stacking in a corner to LoS and group mobs, yeah do that in other games. AoE DPS said mobs down, do that in other games. Skip mobs, when was the last time anyone ever did a raid in WoW that full cleared the ENTIRE instance by choice. As far as the hitbox thing, WvW and sPvP are pretty much unplayable without it turned off, since you will be stopping everytime you get near an enemy, let alone a zerg.

I really think he needs to figure out that just because he calls them “exploits” does not mean that is the case. It honestly feels like the old days of Diablo 2 when people would cry “HACKER” just because they didn’t like how things turned out and felt they were cheated when they weren’t.

Too bad we can’t use the Dup trick in GW2!

I’m not trying to justify the guy, but going inside the hitbox does feel exploitish. I think it’s a bug that Anet decided wasn’t important enough to fix.

I don’t really think its a bug though, I mean, look at WW damage if you couldn’t do that, you couldn’t even land with the number of projectiles that even the damage tooltip indicates in the number of hits. But still, other mechanics he lists as “exploits” have been in pretty much every MMO, and are more of a strategy than anything. It is almost like saying that hiding behind a wall in WvW waiting for the enemy to come grouped up through a choke point is an exploit…

I dunno though. I was certain that the WW projectiles are supposed to be aoe spread damage, not single target. But I’m also not going to call it an exploit. Like you said, the guy list common MMO actions as exploits when it’s clearly not. Making a Stone of Jordan out of 1 gold is an exploit, but not the mechanics he lists!

styx.7294:

Bash.7291:

However, it really is not the zerker meta that is the issue though, it is the elitist attitude that people take in regards to dungeons and needing to clear it as fast as possible. This happens in every game though, and just comes down to finding people to run at what speed you like.

Basically this.

I don’t often do PvE with my guardian but when I do, I do it in cleric’s ‘cause the people I run with don’t care.

You must be The Most Interesting Man in the World (GW2 style).

guanlongwucaii.3162:

unavoidable damage is lazy game design. there’s a difference between many fast-hitting attacks (eg fractal trash, encouraging the use of weakness) and attacks that can only be survived by going tanky.

whatever it is I think anet has a long way to go before it can reduce power build dominance (and is it even a goal worth aiming for? eventually people will still run minimal defenses in order to be fast)

Might be laziness but it does promote gear diversity over just going insane Zerker. I hope they add more to this type honestly.

And yes, I think it is goal worthy. Otherwise, what’s the point of having all these different gear types?

Casmurro.9046:

Bash.7291:

Illegal tactics such as turning off options that Anet gives you to use or not use? …. wha?

Yeah, he commented about that 50k WW that obal did with his guardian, he said that was possible because of an exploit, where you turn off your melee atack assist so you can enter in the mob’kittenbox and do that crazy damage, he used the same argument for the fiery gs against a wall.

You don’t need to turn it off to do this. I play with it on unless I’m doing a hard trash skip where a leap would be good without flying to a random target and putting me in combat. I don’t really see how it’s an exploit. You would just be wasting the projectiles if your not doing that. They have already said fgs is working as intended also.

He thinks just normal stacking is an exploit as well playing the game with any kind of strategy so I’m not really sure how anyone can take him seriously. Stacking doesn’t just magically work and he did it in his video at the cliffside seal. People kept going down since they weren’t doing what needed to be done. He has no blinds. He has no GS to pull the guys that range. He doesn’t use wall when the guy is standing there ranging them for a minute while he talks about how he is carrying the group. He has no hammer on for perma prot. He doesn’t activate a virtue. He is not really helping the team. The warriors are not doing CCs. There are 2 warriors and 1 necro and there is no weakness on the enemies. The other guardian isn’t using his virtues, doesn’t have hammer, isn’t blinding anything, isn’t using pulls, isn’t using walls. We do all these things in my cliffside guardian guide video and you can see the difference it makes. He talks about how the zerker meta is ruining the game but no one in this group seems to be even running it but he doesn’t seem to understand it or many other things.

I’m tempted to make a “tank” build video now just to give people some middle ground between full zerker and stuff like this. The build I had in mind is already in my text guide.

Harbinger.8637:

He also said Vigorous Precision is useless. Vigor equals more dodging. More dodging equals damage mitigation and Selfless Daring.

Why would he go for Vigorous Precision when he will probably not be able to crit and keep it up.

Farzo.8410:

Harbinger.8637:

He also said Vigorous Precision is useless. Vigor equals more dodging. More dodging equals damage mitigation and Selfless Daring.

Why would he go for Vigorous Precision when he will probably not be able to crit and keep it up.

That just proves the problem with his gear choice. I really don’t have a problem with the build. 0/0/10/30/30 isn’t bad, it’s actually probably the best support you can go. What I have a problem with is his gear choice. He just goes full cleric with some pvt.

You can easily sacrifice some healing power in order to gain some other stats like precision and power, Zealot gear is an example of this. Healing power scales bad in this game, only a few things really benefit from having insanely high healing power.

If I was to play my cleric guard again in FOTMs, I’d go for 0/0/30/30/10.
4 Squishy Zerkers, 1 Support Guard isn’t really that bad.

obal.3218:

Casmurro.9046:

Bash.7291:

Illegal tactics such as turning off options that Anet gives you to use or not use? …. wha?

Yeah, he commented about that 50k WW that obal did with his guardian, he said that was possible because of an exploit, where you turn off your melee atack assist so you can enter in the mob’kittenbox and do that crazy damage, he used the same argument for the fiery gs against a wall.

You don’t need to turn it off to do this. I play with it on unless I’m doing a hard trash skip where a leap would be good without flying to a random target and putting me in combat. I don’t really see how it’s an exploit. You would just be wasting the projectiles if your not doing that. They have already said fgs is working as intended also.

He thinks just normal stacking is an exploit as well playing the game with any kind of strategy so I’m not really sure how anyone can take him seriously. Stacking doesn’t just magically work and he did it in his video at the cliffside seal. People kept going down since they weren’t doing what needed to be done. He has no blinds. He has no GS to pull the guys that range. He doesn’t use wall when the guy is standing there ranging them for a minute while he talks about how he is carrying the group. He has no hammer on for perma prot. He doesn’t activate a virtue. He is not really helping the team. The warriors are not doing CCs. There are 2 warriors and 1 necro and there is no weakness on the enemies. The other guardian isn’t using his virtues, doesn’t have hammer, isn’t blinding anything, isn’t using pulls, isn’t using walls. We do all these things in my cliffside guardian guide video and you can see the difference it makes. He talks about how the zerker meta is ruining the game but no one in this group seems to be even running it but he doesn’t seem to understand it or many other things.

I’m tempted to make a “tank” build video now just to give people some middle ground between full zerker and stuff like this. The build I had in mind is already in my text guide.

The tankier build is the knight’s / hammer version?

I’m curious what you think about a celestial (armor)/zerker (trinkets) mix as a somewhat tankier middle ground. I find it makes most dungeons easy in PUGs. So far (not a huge sample size yet), I haven’t found that pure zerker makes things faster or easier for me — though that may be just because I’m not good enough to run it. <rueful smile>

linuxotaku.4731:

obal.3218:

Casmurro.9046:

Bash.7291:

Illegal tactics such as turning off options that Anet gives you to use or not use? …. wha?

Yeah, he commented about that 50k WW that obal did with his guardian, he said that was possible because of an exploit, where you turn off your melee atack assist so you can enter in the mob’kittenbox and do that crazy damage, he used the same argument for the fiery gs against a wall.

You don’t need to turn it off to do this. I play with it on unless I’m doing a hard trash skip where a leap would be good without flying to a random target and putting me in combat. I don’t really see how it’s an exploit. You would just be wasting the projectiles if your not doing that. They have already said fgs is working as intended also.

He thinks just normal stacking is an exploit as well playing the game with any kind of strategy so I’m not really sure how anyone can take him seriously. Stacking doesn’t just magically work and he did it in his video at the cliffside seal. People kept going down since they weren’t doing what needed to be done. He has no blinds. He has no GS to pull the guys that range. He doesn’t use wall when the guy is standing there ranging them for a minute while he talks about how he is carrying the group. He has no hammer on for perma prot. He doesn’t activate a virtue. He is not really helping the team. The warriors are not doing CCs. There are 2 warriors and 1 necro and there is no weakness on the enemies. The other guardian isn’t using his virtues, doesn’t have hammer, isn’t blinding anything, isn’t using pulls, isn’t using walls. We do all these things in my cliffside guardian guide video and you can see the difference it makes. He talks about how the zerker meta is ruining the game but no one in this group seems to be even running it but he doesn’t seem to understand it or many other things.

I’m tempted to make a “tank” build video now just to give people some middle ground between full zerker and stuff like this. The build I had in mind is already in my text guide.

The tankier build is the knight’s / hammer version?

I’m curious what you think about a celestial (armor)/zerker (trinkets) mix as a somewhat tankier middle ground. I find it makes most dungeons easy in PUGs. So far (not a huge sample size yet), I haven’t found that pure zerker makes things faster or easier for me — though that may be just because I’m not good enough to run it. <rueful smile>

I’d say just stick with zerker and improve, it does make things faster playing full zerker but not always easier. Pugging is also perfectly viable in full zerker as well. If you wanted to use a gear as training wheels celestial is a bad choice. The loss in power is too great to make it worth using over something like a knights/soldier zerker mix

Painbow.6059:

linuxotaku.4731:

The tankier build is the knight’s / hammer version?

I’m curious what you think about a celestial (armor)/zerker (trinkets) mix as a somewhat tankier middle ground. I find it makes most dungeons easy in PUGs. So far (not a huge sample size yet), I haven’t found that pure zerker makes things faster or easier for me — though that may be just because I’m not good enough to run it. <rueful smile>

I’d say just stick with zerker and improve, it does make things faster playing full zerker but not always easier. Pugging is also perfectly viable in full zerker as well. If you wanted to use a gear as training wheels celestial is a bad choice. The loss in power is too great to make it worth using over something like a knights/soldier zerker mix

How do you come up with a DPS comparison? The chart I see assumes all celestial, which doesn’t make sense — the ratio for celestial trinkets is worse than celestial armor, and celestial armor has crit dmg which is >= the values from zerker. Of course, the changes to crit dmg may make all of this moot.

My crit dmg is a few points higher than pure zerker, and my crit rate is over 50%; I do lose 5-10% power and a few points of crit rate over pure zerker. But I’m fairly sure that overall dmg is higher than it would be with soldier’s/zerker, and probably higher than with knight’s/zerker.

I compared dmg via some ad hoc tests, and while the zerker version was higher, it didn’t seem that much higher. (Granted the comparison wasn’t not entirely fair — ascended celestial armor + traveler’s runes + zerker trinkets vs exotic zerker armor + scholar’s runes + zerker trinkets.)

I wasn’t saying that pugging isn’t viable in zerker — just that it’s been mixed for me. (If no one else goes down, it’s OK, but if others go down I’ll try to get them back up … and I’m too squishy to do this unless I have some cover skills off CD. This is the same problem I had when I played my ele in PUGs (almost all zerker gear)… but I’ll grant that I could improve my play there — watching who has aggro and where they are, etc.)

Honestly I’m kind of surprised that this thread is still going. Majority of it are the same people high fiveing each other and smack talking the guys cleric build.

Is it worth it to run? To each their own, but wow, this thread is still going?

Some more useful comments toward the bottom at least, and props to you obal for trying to come up with a middle ground for a more diverse player base.

Jesus Christ, people!!! (I am referring to the comments on YT as well) I agree that the build is obsolete nowadays but he’s right!

I see so many scumbags in fractals running around in full zerker gear even though they can’t take the heat. Why?! Because they are basically forced to wear it.

(In before “but the doesn’t have to play like this.” EVERY person absolutely HATES to be excluded and thats exactly what the current meta is doing… and that’s why everyone is rolling zerker gear. Elitist kitten in a 99% casual game, I can’t believe it!)

Play how you want and let the others play the way they want to play. Life is too kittening short for this elitist bullkitten.

linuxotaku.4731:

The tankier build is the knight’s / hammer version?

I’m curious what you think about a celestial (armor)/zerker (trinkets) mix as a somewhat tankier middle ground. I find it makes most dungeons easy in PUGs. So far (not a huge sample size yet), I haven’t found that pure zerker makes things faster or easier for me — though that may be just because I’m not good enough to run it. <rueful smile>

Yeah thats the build. I’m not really a fan of celestial gear since it wastes stat points on things you don’t need so I’d rather take knights or soldiers since you bring those max on survival while still trying to be effective. The celestial/zerk mix is fine though. It has identical EP as knight/zerk and a bit more when factoring in all group buffs. Soldiers/zerk has a bit less than knight/zekr but it does max on survival. All 3 choices would be perfectly fine and just come down to preference. I just prefer knights given the reasons I use it. I’m curious to see how the gaps change doing calcs after the patch.

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Might be laziness but it does promote gear diversity over just going insane Zerker. I hope they add more to this type honestly.

And yes, I think it is goal worthy. Otherwise, what’s the point of having all these different gear types?

How does it promote gear diversity when instead of wearing berserker’s you will be forced to wear, for instance, soldier’s because of the unavoidable damage? Even if your party will be like 1 guy in berserker’s and 4 others with something like rabid, cleric’s, rampager’s and knight’s (which would be diverse), the berserker’s and rampager’s guys will die anyway and be dead weights.

I think the concept might work if it forces the zerkers to back off for a moment to survive, whereas the tankier guys get closer to 100% uptime.

I think a decent example of this was Foreman Spur. Zerkers can’t really take him as easily as every other fight for numerous reasons.

LFG Cleric paladin preferred. I am a healer white mage and here is my meta build.

In all seriousness, the build he is advertising is silly, he doesn’t even have the vuln on blind trait to increase his group DPS. Also, how is his epic healer guardian going to help if his teammates are still going to be instagibbed? And i dont see retreat either on his bar, he is not giving his allies aegis to save them from getting instakilled. And last, but not least. This build seems like it’s made for facetanking stuff, which you should never use in a serious run. (Unless it’s a no dodge cleric healer only run, ofcourse)

Kholdstare.9608:

I think the concept might work if it forces the zerkers to back off for a moment to survive, whereas the tankier guys get closer to 100% uptime.

I think a decent example of this was Foreman Spur. Zerkers can’t really take him as easily as every other fight for numerous reasons.

It a decent concept but how do you implement it in the game where a glass ele has half of glass warrior’s effective hp (with bonus armour)?

Bam linksville, now we don’t have to worry about anyone actually using this trash.