Guild Wars 2

vespers.1759:

Retrospek.4583:

as a thief against 5 players would have less of a fighting chance if multiple people DoT them up).

no other class can handle 5 players at once. no player should have a chance vs 5 players at once. only thieves can do it, and they can do it in full berserker gear no less. it’s total trash.

wtf were you thinking when you wrote this?

Yea person you quoted said DoT them up. Amassing that some people in here defending thief class barely know their own class. Probably due to 222222222 is only thing they know. Hide in Shadows prevents a thief from ever having to worry about being DoTed to death. And if trait properly you don’t even have to worry about any condition while stealth.

Teamkiller.4315:

1) It’s culling dude. Again, roll a thief in sPVP where there is no culling. I promise you it’s nowhere near as easy for them to kill you (also there’s the issue of 50% less maximum crit damage in sPVP but still)

2) You didn’t lose, you just didn’t win. The only way you would lose is if you died, but you didn’t. Again, roll a thief and learn how the mechanics of the thief work.

in case you missed it thread title was “Thieves-rule-W3” So saying sPvP blah blah blah sure makes a valid argument over WvW.

Asglarek.8976:

Joey.2769:

Threads like these show just how lazy some are. The easiest thing to say is this class or that class is so OP nerf now. Instead got to sPvP and roll that class see it’s mechanics then you will be better suited to fight them. I must agree that if they could get culling solved in WvW you will hopefully see less people complain….but again that’s a hope, because kids will still get all but hurt because they were rolling around in zerk gear and got spiked before they could spike.

You saying everything is fine with thieves based on the smallest sampling of the game in terms of player activity as apposed to one of the largest being wv3. Culling and invisibility are broken this is indisputible and until they can fix either and or what do you think the fix should be?

Heres a hint in wv3 there was another issue with orbs what did they do to fix that?

He also tries to say thieves are fine in WvW because they suck in sPvP. That kinda silly. Or maybe he can’t read title of thread that said “Thieves-rule-W3”

Happy to see others viewing this as a problem too. However, I think ANet needs to focus only on stealth to prevent perma stealthing. perhaps permastealthing doesn’t happen in spvp, but it’s rampant in wvwvw, as the myriad videos clearly show. Thieves in wvw can and do remain 100% stealthed while attacking the entire time. I doubt this is working as intended, and my guess is that culling enables thieves to bridge stealthed to non stealthed periods. A reveal debuff is more than reasonable and won’t hurt the class. good thieves will manage, others who don’t need to l2p.

i think it’s unfair that my rapid fire can do 7k in 10 hits but a thief can do 7k+ in 1 hit. i got hit for a 5k steal today. come on. anyone can dodge my rapid fire, no one can dodge a steal from invis.

i don’t mind high dmg, but when you can hit 1 button and do it, or hit the same button and do it multiple times it jsut gets old very fast. also stealth stomp… come on.

i watched a thief dance around 10 people today downing and stomping from stealth. then he ran away.

90% of solo players i see in wvwvw are thieves. at this point i just run away when i see a thief, because i don’t stand a chance. it isn’t a L2P issue. i can handle other classes minus eles and some mesmers alright, but thieves are just something else.

Joey.2769:

Wow so I mention sPvP and now I need to learn to read. I’m sorry if I considered that you were too lazy to actually learn your class enough to fight a build that is easily countered. So seeing as you were too lazy for that there was no way you’d level a thief to understand it so sPvP gives those too worried about forum wars to skip the leveling to see the full mechanics and possible counters. And I wvw every night with my guardian or warrior and after the first 2 weeks realized how to counter them. I won’t say L2P but a little research might make you less ignorant.

Speaking of ignorant

sPvP has seperate balance from PvE which WvW falls under. So stop using that as your basis for “working as intended”.

Also, i’d love too see some proof of you countering perma stealth on a warrior. Unless by counter you mean can’t be killed in which case you’ve done nothing but state what numerous others have. It’s an annoying mechanic that needs to be fixed.

Columba.9730:

Happy to see others viewing this as a problem too. However, I think ANet needs to focus only on stealth to prevent perma stealthing. perhaps permastealthing doesn’t happen in spvp, but it’s rampant in wvwvw, as the myriad videos clearly show. Thieves in wvw can and do remain 100% stealthed while attacking the entire time. I doubt this is working as intended, and my guess is that culling enables thieves to bridge stealthed to non stealthed periods. A reveal debuff is more than reasonable and won’t hurt the class. good thieves will manage, others who don’t need to l2p.

First, any attacks that hit will break stealth, AND YES, they will reveal debuff the thief (OP video is an exploit if you didn’t realize yet).

Second, when I’m on my hammer-shout warrior I’m about 5 times more valuable in a zerg than on my thief.

Culling happens whether you’re a thief or any other class and it doesn’t matter if half a zerg is culled or stealth because AoE will hit regardless (and most damage in this game IS AoE).

Not sure what mechanic you would want changed. The D/P ‘perma stealth’ build is hard to play and isn’t even that effective. Everything else uses CnD which needs to hit.

Counters to stealth include stun, daze, blind, dodge, snare. And a bit of burst damage.

If you don’t understand a class, you won’t know the first thing how to fight it and it’s even more significant with thief because even their attacks rely on stealth. I’m guessing that’s why theres so much complaining on the forums, when by comparison, a D/D ele beats theif in almost every category (solo, small scale fights, and zerging).

Zephyrus.9680:

Second, when I’m on my hammer-shout warrior I’m about 5 times more valuable in a zerg than on my thief.

oh wow that means a lot when i’m lying dead on the ground after being 3 shotted by something i never saw until after i got stomped.

Zephyrus.9680:

Columba.9730:

Happy to see others viewing this as a problem too. However, I think ANet needs to focus only on stealth to prevent perma stealthing. perhaps permastealthing doesn’t happen in spvp, but it’s rampant in wvwvw, as the myriad videos clearly show. Thieves in wvw can and do remain 100% stealthed while attacking the entire time. I doubt this is working as intended, and my guess is that culling enables thieves to bridge stealthed to non stealthed periods. A reveal debuff is more than reasonable and won’t hurt the class. good thieves will manage, others who don’t need to l2p.

First, any attacks that hit will break stealth, AND YES, they will reveal debuff the thief (OP video is an exploit if you didn’t realize yet).

Second, when I’m on my hammer-shout warrior I’m about 5 times more valuable in a zerg than on my thief.

Culling happens whether you’re a thief or any other class and it doesn’t matter if half a zerg is culled or stealth because AoE will hit regardless (and most damage in this game IS AoE).

Not sure what mechanic you would want changed. The D/P ‘perma stealth’ build is hard to play and isn’t even that effective. Everything else uses CnD which needs to hit.

Counters to stealth include stun, daze, blind, dodge, snare. And a bit of burst damage.

If you don’t understand a class, you won’t know the first thing how to fight it and it’s even more significant with thief because even their attacks rely on stealth. I’m guessing that’s why theres so much complaining on the forums, when by comparison, a D/D ele beats theif in almost every category (solo, small scale fights, and zerging).

nope, there’s evidence all over that thieves can attack and remain stealthed. videos have the evidence. secondly, I can see other classes as they attempt to unload their high cooldown low cast time attacks. unlike thieves that can spam high damage attacks and remain stealthed. lol.

vespers.1759:

i think it’s unfair that my rapid fire can do 7k in 10 hits but a thief can do 7k+ in 1 hit. i got hit for a 5k steal today. come on. anyone can dodge my rapid fire, no one can dodge a steal from invis.

i don’t mind high dmg, but when you can hit 1 button and do it, or hit the same button and do it multiple times it jsut gets old very fast. also stealth stomp… come on.

i watched a thief dance around 10 people today downing and stomping from stealth. then he ran away.

90% of solo players i see in wvwvw are thieves. at this point i just run away when i see a thief, because i don’t stand a chance. it isn’t a L2P issue. i can handle other classes minus eles and some mesmers alright, but thieves are just something else.

yep, l2p addressed to all non thief players is pretty meaningless. It seems like desparation.

Columba.9730:

vespers.1759:

i think it’s unfair that my rapid fire can do 7k in 10 hits but a thief can do 7k+ in 1 hit. i got hit for a 5k steal today. come on. anyone can dodge my rapid fire, no one can dodge a steal from invis.

i don’t mind high dmg, but when you can hit 1 button and do it, or hit the same button and do it multiple times it jsut gets old very fast. also stealth stomp… come on.

i watched a thief dance around 10 people today downing and stomping from stealth. then he ran away.

90% of solo players i see in wvwvw are thieves. at this point i just run away when i see a thief, because i don’t stand a chance. it isn’t a L2P issue. i can handle other classes minus eles and some mesmers alright, but thieves are just something else.

yep, l2p addressed to all non thief players is pretty meaningless. It seems like desparation.

How is it meaningless ? People tell you how to counter thieves yet you say “durr nope impossible” and come up with another stupid arguement which we tell you off again then you go back to the first one its the same with you.. lol

You only rotate by perma stealth,culling, cant target. yet we told you all the ways you can find kill thieves for all these problems.

Columba.9730:

Zephyrus.9680:

Columba.9730:

Happy to see others viewing this as a problem too. However, I think ANet needs to focus only on stealth to prevent perma stealthing. perhaps permastealthing doesn’t happen in spvp, but it’s rampant in wvwvw, as the myriad videos clearly show. Thieves in wvw can and do remain 100% stealthed while attacking the entire time. I doubt this is working as intended, and my guess is that culling enables thieves to bridge stealthed to non stealthed periods. A reveal debuff is more than reasonable and won’t hurt the class. good thieves will manage, others who don’t need to l2p.

First, any attacks that hit will break stealth, AND YES, they will reveal debuff the thief (OP video is an exploit if you didn’t realize yet).

Second, when I’m on my hammer-shout warrior I’m about 5 times more valuable in a zerg than on my thief.

Culling happens whether you’re a thief or any other class and it doesn’t matter if half a zerg is culled or stealth because AoE will hit regardless (and most damage in this game IS AoE).

Not sure what mechanic you would want changed. The D/P ‘perma stealth’ build is hard to play and isn’t even that effective. Everything else uses CnD which needs to hit.

Counters to stealth include stun, daze, blind, dodge, snare. And a bit of burst damage.

If you don’t understand a class, you won’t know the first thing how to fight it and it’s even more significant with thief because even their attacks rely on stealth. I’m guessing that’s why theres so much complaining on the forums, when by comparison, a D/D ele beats theif in almost every category (solo, small scale fights, and zerging).

nope, there’s evidence all over that thieves can attack and remain stealthed. videos have the evidence. secondly, I can see other classes as they attempt to unload their high cooldown low cast time attacks. unlike thieves that can spam high damage attacks and remain stealthed. lol.

Constant dps while staying in stealth? your kidding right? The only thing that keeps thieves in stealth while doing damage is CnD at the very last second of tick of stealth to renew it. if you do it at any other time you will get immune and get revealed.

Columba.9730:

nope, there’s evidence all over that thieves can attack and remain stealthed. videos have the evidence. secondly, I can see other classes as they attempt to unload their high cooldown low cast time attacks. unlike thieves that can spam high damage attacks and remain stealthed. lol.

Nope, there’s no conspiracy here. I have a 80 Thief with hundreds of hours in PvP and I’m just informing you the class can’t attack and remain stealth. Period. If you’re referring to some exploit then I don’t care. That’s an exploit.

Thief can attack just after stealth duration ends naturally and then restealth instantly with CnD but that’s a single attack, almost no damage, and it still gives away position.

I’m just pointing out that what you’re asking to be fixed doesn’t literally exist. When people refer to ‘perma stealth thief’ it’s hyperbole. It usually means a thief specced with 15+ points in Shadow Arts for 1 second extra stealth.

Secondly, that’s called class difference. For example, theves don’t have 25k HP + massive toughness + 3 out of 5 of their weapon skills being high AoE CC for example (aka zerg busting hammer warrior).

Zephyrus.9680:

Columba.9730:

nope, there’s evidence all over that thieves can attack and remain stealthed. videos have the evidence. secondly, I can see other classes as they attempt to unload their high cooldown low cast time attacks. unlike thieves that can spam high damage attacks and remain stealthed. lol.

Well I have a 80 Thief with hundreds of hours in PvP and I’m just informing you the class can’t attack and remain stealth. Period. There’s no consipracy here.

It can attack just after stealth duration ends naturally and then restealth instantly but that’s a single attack, almost no damage, and it still gives away position.

Secondly, that’s called class difference. Theves don’t have 25k HP + massive toughness + 3 out of 5 of their weapon skills being high AoE CC for example (aka zerg busting hammer warrior).

I call BS, and i dont mean backstab.

Plenty of videos have been posted showing exactly how to perma stealth and how to stay stealthed. Yes hitting someone as a Thief breaks stealth, however that is not what people are asking for. They want a theif to be knocked out of stealth when damaged, its that simple.

Also, your Zerg busting hammer warrior…Remind me again how it crits for 12k on a squishy and how it’s able to break LoS on a 2 second cooldown and heal to full.

Cause even running a Shout-Heal Hammer warrior you just cannot beat the fight resetting get out of jail free theives currently have.

PS Those skills cooldowns that you are mentioning are stupidly longer than any thieves skill cooldowns.

@ all the i handle thieves just fine posts…
Post the vids. That is all. No more l2p, no more spvp, post the vids of you in WvW handling a decent lvl 80 thief, and no vids of you playing a thief to counter a thief.

I can post links to plenty of vids of thieves handling groups so i just want to see your proof.

TexZero.7910:

Zephyrus.9680:

Columba.9730:

nope, there’s evidence all over that thieves can attack and remain stealthed. videos have the evidence. secondly, I can see other classes as they attempt to unload their high cooldown low cast time attacks. unlike thieves that can spam high damage attacks and remain stealthed. lol.

Well I have a 80 Thief with hundreds of hours in PvP and I’m just informing you the class can’t attack and remain stealth. Period. There’s no consipracy here.

It can attack just after stealth duration ends naturally and then restealth instantly but that’s a single attack, almost no damage, and it still gives away position.

Secondly, that’s called class difference. Theves don’t have 25k HP + massive toughness + 3 out of 5 of their weapon skills being high AoE CC for example (aka zerg busting hammer warrior).

I call BS, and i dont mean backstab.

Plenty of videos have been posted showing exactly how to perma stealth and how to stay stealthed. Yes hitting someone as a Thief breaks stealth, however that is not what people are asking for. They want a theif to be knocked out of stealth when damaged, its that simple.

Also, your Zerg busting hammer warrior…Remind me again how it crits for 12k on a squishy and how it’s able to break LoS on a 2 second cooldown and heal to full.

Cause even running a Shout-Heal Hammer warrior you just cannot beat the fight resetting get out of jail free theives currently have.

PS Those skills cooldowns that you are mentioning are stupidly longer than any thieves skill cooldowns.

Try playing the class before BSing people who actually know what they’re talking about.

There’s stealth field leap combo with D/P theif which can stealth without hitting anything but that’s not perma – it takes 9 initiative (out of 10, or 12 with spec)… Having a thief knocked out of stealth on damage would be ridiculous, sorry. Because stealth isn’t an add-on to the class. It’s what their whole skill sets are built around.

What breaks ‘LoS’ on 2 second cd? Try 50s for shadowstep.

And it’s not 12k its 15k crit. That’s what my warrior can hit on squishes with kill shot when I put valk set on. At 1500 range with rifle.

Jerks.3172:

Columba.9730:

Zephyrus.9680:

Columba.9730:

Happy to see others viewing this as a problem too. However, I think ANet needs to focus only on stealth to prevent perma stealthing. perhaps permastealthing doesn’t happen in spvp, but it’s rampant in wvwvw, as the myriad videos clearly show. Thieves in wvw can and do remain 100% stealthed while attacking the entire time. I doubt this is working as intended, and my guess is that culling enables thieves to bridge stealthed to non stealthed periods. A reveal debuff is more than reasonable and won’t hurt the class. good thieves will manage, others who don’t need to l2p.

First, any attacks that hit will break stealth, AND YES, they will reveal debuff the thief (OP video is an exploit if you didn’t realize yet).

Second, when I’m on my hammer-shout warrior I’m about 5 times more valuable in a zerg than on my thief.

Culling happens whether you’re a thief or any other class and it doesn’t matter if half a zerg is culled or stealth because AoE will hit regardless (and most damage in this game IS AoE).

Not sure what mechanic you would want changed. The D/P ‘perma stealth’ build is hard to play and isn’t even that effective. Everything else uses CnD which needs to hit.

Counters to stealth include stun, daze, blind, dodge, snare. And a bit of burst damage.

If you don’t understand a class, you won’t know the first thing how to fight it and it’s even more significant with thief because even their attacks rely on stealth. I’m guessing that’s why theres so much complaining on the forums, when by comparison, a D/D ele beats theif in almost every category (solo, small scale fights, and zerging).

nope, there’s evidence all over that thieves can attack and remain stealthed. videos have the evidence. secondly, I can see other classes as they attempt to unload their high cooldown low cast time attacks. unlike thieves that can spam high damage attacks and remain stealthed. lol.

Constant dps while staying in stealth? your kidding right? The only thing that keeps thieves in stealth while doing damage is CnD at the very last second of tick of stealth to renew it. if you do it at any other time you will get immune and get revealed.

I don’t know whom you think you are fooling. we all experience perma stealthed thieves attacking us in wvw. you aren’t fooling any of us since we experience it all the time. there are dozens upon dozens of videos showing how to do it.

Zephyrus.9680:

TexZero.7910:

Zephyrus.9680:

Columba.9730:

nope, there’s evidence all over that thieves can attack and remain stealthed. videos have the evidence. secondly, I can see other classes as they attempt to unload their high cooldown low cast time attacks. unlike thieves that can spam high damage attacks and remain stealthed. lol.

Well I have a 80 Thief with hundreds of hours in PvP and I’m just informing you the class can’t attack and remain stealth. Period. There’s no consipracy here.

It can attack just after stealth duration ends naturally and then restealth instantly but that’s a single attack, almost no damage, and it still gives away position.

Secondly, that’s called class difference. Theves don’t have 25k HP + massive toughness + 3 out of 5 of their weapon skills being high AoE CC for example (aka zerg busting hammer warrior).

I call BS, and i dont mean backstab.

Plenty of videos have been posted showing exactly how to perma stealth and how to stay stealthed. Yes hitting someone as a Thief breaks stealth, however that is not what people are asking for. They want a theif to be knocked out of stealth when damaged, its that simple.

Also, your Zerg busting hammer warrior…Remind me again how it crits for 12k on a squishy and how it’s able to break LoS on a 2 second cooldown and heal to full.

Cause even running a Shout-Heal Hammer warrior you just cannot beat the fight resetting get out of jail free theives currently have.

PS Those skills cooldowns that you are mentioning are stupidly longer than any thieves skill cooldowns.

Try playing the class before BSing people who actually know what they’re talking about.

There’s stealth field leap combo with D/P theif which can stealth without hitting anything but that’s not perma – it takes 9 initiative (out of 10, or 12 with spec)… Having a thief knocked out of stealth on damage would be ridiculous, sorry. Because stealth isn’t an add-on to the class. It’s what their whole skill sets are built around.

What breaks ‘LoS’ on 2 second cd? Try 50s for shadowstep.

And it’s not 12k its 15k crit. That’s what my warrior can hit on squishes with kill shot when I put valk set on. At 1500 range with rifle.

yep, and thiefs hit for that while remaining stealthed. at least with warriors, we see the attack coming.

Zephyrus.9680:

Columba.9730:

nope, there’s evidence all over that thieves can attack and remain stealthed. videos have the evidence. secondly, I can see other classes as they attempt to unload their high cooldown low cast time attacks. unlike thieves that can spam high damage attacks and remain stealthed. lol.

Nope, there’s no conspiracy here. I have a 80 Thief with hundreds of hours in PvP and I’m just informing you the class can’t attack and remain stealth. Period. If you’re referring to some exploit then I don’t care. That’s an exploit.

Thief can attack just after stealth duration ends naturally and then restealth instantly with CnD but that’s a single attack, almost no damage, and it still gives away position.

I’m just pointing out that what you’re asking to be fixed doesn’t literally exist. When people refer to ‘perma stealth thief’ it’s hyperbole. It usually means a thief specced with 15+ points in Shadow Arts for 1 second extra stealth.

Secondly, that’s called class difference. For example, theves don’t have 25k HP + massive toughness + 3 out of 5 of their weapon skills being high AoE CC for example (aka zerg busting hammer warrior).

nope, it’s called culling and stealthing between culling. simple really. at least we can see warriors coming. I don’t have any issues with them.

Columba.9730:

Jerks.3172:

Columba.9730:

Zephyrus.9680:

Columba.9730:

Happy to see others viewing this as a problem too. However, I think ANet needs to focus only on stealth to prevent perma stealthing. perhaps permastealthing doesn’t happen in spvp, but it’s rampant in wvwvw, as the myriad videos clearly show. Thieves in wvw can and do remain 100% stealthed while attacking the entire time. I doubt this is working as intended, and my guess is that culling enables thieves to bridge stealthed to non stealthed periods. A reveal debuff is more than reasonable and won’t hurt the class. good thieves will manage, others who don’t need to l2p.

First, any attacks that hit will break stealth, AND YES, they will reveal debuff the thief (OP video is an exploit if you didn’t realize yet).

Second, when I’m on my hammer-shout warrior I’m about 5 times more valuable in a zerg than on my thief.

Culling happens whether you’re a thief or any other class and it doesn’t matter if half a zerg is culled or stealth because AoE will hit regardless (and most damage in this game IS AoE).

Not sure what mechanic you would want changed. The D/P ‘perma stealth’ build is hard to play and isn’t even that effective. Everything else uses CnD which needs to hit.

Counters to stealth include stun, daze, blind, dodge, snare. And a bit of burst damage.

If you don’t understand a class, you won’t know the first thing how to fight it and it’s even more significant with thief because even their attacks rely on stealth. I’m guessing that’s why theres so much complaining on the forums, when by comparison, a D/D ele beats theif in almost every category (solo, small scale fights, and zerging).

nope, there’s evidence all over that thieves can attack and remain stealthed. videos have the evidence. secondly, I can see other classes as they attempt to unload their high cooldown low cast time attacks. unlike thieves that can spam high damage attacks and remain stealthed. lol.

Constant dps while staying in stealth? your kidding right? The only thing that keeps thieves in stealth while doing damage is CnD at the very last second of tick of stealth to renew it. if you do it at any other time you will get immune and get revealed.

I don’t know whom you think you are fooling. we all experience perma stealthed thieves attacking us in wvw. you aren’t fooling any of us since we experience it all the time. there are dozens upon dozens of videos showing how to do it.

K, post me a video of a thief staying cloaked and hitting you every second for 10 seconds. Hmm. yeah there isnt any.

When solo roaming, it’s pretty hard to beat a thief. However, when you’re with other people, watch your terrain, anticipate attack then CC. Knockbacks are deadly against thieves. At this point, when he’s down in the ground, lay all the dps. If he escapes, and your expecting another brawl from him. Swap some of your utility for catching thieves. Bait him out again. this time at less open terrain where you can block his escape. If you’re running ranger or a glass cannon, then i’m sorry nothing i can do for you.

Jerks.3172:

Columba.9730:

Jerks.3172:

Columba.9730:

Zephyrus.9680:

Columba.9730:

Happy to see others viewing this as a problem too. However, I think ANet needs to focus only on stealth to prevent perma stealthing. perhaps permastealthing doesn’t happen in spvp, but it’s rampant in wvwvw, as the myriad videos clearly show. Thieves in wvw can and do remain 100% stealthed while attacking the entire time. I doubt this is working as intended, and my guess is that culling enables thieves to bridge stealthed to non stealthed periods. A reveal debuff is more than reasonable and won’t hurt the class. good thieves will manage, others who don’t need to l2p.

First, any attacks that hit will break stealth, AND YES, they will reveal debuff the thief (OP video is an exploit if you didn’t realize yet).

Second, when I’m on my hammer-shout warrior I’m about 5 times more valuable in a zerg than on my thief.

Culling happens whether you’re a thief or any other class and it doesn’t matter if half a zerg is culled or stealth because AoE will hit regardless (and most damage in this game IS AoE).

Not sure what mechanic you would want changed. The D/P ‘perma stealth’ build is hard to play and isn’t even that effective. Everything else uses CnD which needs to hit.

Counters to stealth include stun, daze, blind, dodge, snare. And a bit of burst damage.

If you don’t understand a class, you won’t know the first thing how to fight it and it’s even more significant with thief because even their attacks rely on stealth. I’m guessing that’s why theres so much complaining on the forums, when by comparison, a D/D ele beats theif in almost every category (solo, small scale fights, and zerging).

nope, there’s evidence all over that thieves can attack and remain stealthed. videos have the evidence. secondly, I can see other classes as they attempt to unload their high cooldown low cast time attacks. unlike thieves that can spam high damage attacks and remain stealthed. lol.

Constant dps while staying in stealth? your kidding right? The only thing that keeps thieves in stealth while doing damage is CnD at the very last second of tick of stealth to renew it. if you do it at any other time you will get immune and get revealed.

I don’t know whom you think you are fooling. we all experience perma stealthed thieves attacking us in wvw. you aren’t fooling any of us since we experience it all the time. there are dozens upon dozens of videos showing how to do it.

K, post me a video of a thief staying cloaked and hitting you every second for 10 seconds. Hmm. yeah there isnt any.

Lol but they can bleed the crap out of you while they stay invisible. Just look for wild bill’s videos.

Shadowkx.2738:

@ all the i handle thieves just fine posts…
Post the vids. That is all. No more l2p, no more spvp, post the vids of you in WvW handling a decent lvl 80 thief, and no vids of you playing a thief to counter a thief.

I can post links to plenty of vids of thieves handling groups so i just want to see your proof.

Um… You mean like watch any video of any class where they kill a thief? Lol.

Rather than asking for somthing so mundane, just go to WvW and watch any tanky guardian built for small teams who knows what he or she is doing. Or doesn’t… They will win just about 100% of the time even just because retaliation and heals. With equal or even lesser skill, D/D eles will win most of their engagements. So will 1v1 mes if they survive the initial burst (illusions/clones are unaffected by culling), and tanky warriors with the right weapon sets. I don’t know ranger or engineer, those seem weaker vs thieves.

Maybe what you’re seeing most is that thieves always have a 1v1 build because that’s their entire skill set for every weapon (except shortbow I guess). While other classes are generally specced for larger fights which inherently gives them a disadvantage against roaming setups.

Zephyrus.9680:

Nothing new here… Old video of another exploit on the wvw queue to be fixed in the ‘near’ future.

Theves rule in roaming, scouting and small scale fights. In zerg wars they suck.

Thieves are great in zerg wars. They wait 10 seconds after the main engagement, and then go in to pick off weakened foes. Free badges yay!

Fighting thieves is like fighting submarines without depth charges.

Columba.9730:

nope, it’s called culling and stealthing between culling. simple really. at least we can see warriors coming. I don’t have any issues with them.

This happened with the old culling system. It was about 1 second. Now it doesn’t. If it does for you its your hardware, and my gfx card is over 4 years old.

Either way, culling is culling. Everyone would like to see that fixed completely.

thewanderer.8561:

Jerks.3172:

Columba.9730:

Jerks.3172:

Columba.9730:

Zephyrus.9680:

Columba.9730:

Happy to see others viewing this as a problem too. However, I think ANet needs to focus only on stealth to prevent perma stealthing. perhaps permastealthing doesn’t happen in spvp, but it’s rampant in wvwvw, as the myriad videos clearly show. Thieves in wvw can and do remain 100% stealthed while attacking the entire time. I doubt this is working as intended, and my guess is that culling enables thieves to bridge stealthed to non stealthed periods. A reveal debuff is more than reasonable and won’t hurt the class. good thieves will manage, others who don’t need to l2p.

First, any attacks that hit will break stealth, AND YES, they will reveal debuff the thief (OP video is an exploit if you didn’t realize yet).

Second, when I’m on my hammer-shout warrior I’m about 5 times more valuable in a zerg than on my thief.

Culling happens whether you’re a thief or any other class and it doesn’t matter if half a zerg is culled or stealth because AoE will hit regardless (and most damage in this game IS AoE).

Not sure what mechanic you would want changed. The D/P ‘perma stealth’ build is hard to play and isn’t even that effective. Everything else uses CnD which needs to hit.

Counters to stealth include stun, daze, blind, dodge, snare. And a bit of burst damage.

If you don’t understand a class, you won’t know the first thing how to fight it and it’s even more significant with thief because even their attacks rely on stealth. I’m guessing that’s why theres so much complaining on the forums, when by comparison, a D/D ele beats theif in almost every category (solo, small scale fights, and zerging).

nope, there’s evidence all over that thieves can attack and remain stealthed. videos have the evidence. secondly, I can see other classes as they attempt to unload their high cooldown low cast time attacks. unlike thieves that can spam high damage attacks and remain stealthed. lol.

Constant dps while staying in stealth? your kidding right? The only thing that keeps thieves in stealth while doing damage is CnD at the very last second of tick of stealth to renew it. if you do it at any other time you will get immune and get revealed.

I don’t know whom you think you are fooling. we all experience perma stealthed thieves attacking us in wvw. you aren’t fooling any of us since we experience it all the time. there are dozens upon dozens of videos showing how to do it.

K, post me a video of a thief staying cloaked and hitting you every second for 10 seconds. Hmm. yeah there isnt any.

Lol but they can bleed the crap out of you while they stay invisible. Just look for wild bill’s videos.

Yea sure, P/D are annoying but you can use condition removal + cc with tab targeting. But Columbia is talking about D/P since he is always ranting about Permastealth.

Zephyrus.9680:

Columba.9730:

nope, it’s called culling and stealthing between culling. simple really. at least we can see warriors coming. I don’t have any issues with them.

This happened with the old culling system. It was about 1 second. Now it doesn’t. If it does for you its your hardware, and my gfx card is over 4 years old.

Either way, culling is culling. Everyone would like to see that fixed completely.

Nope. geforce gtx 670, 2 gig video memory, 16 gb ram, solid state drive i5 quad core. not my system.

many people report culling as being several seconds, lol.

Jerks.3172:

thewanderer.8561:

Jerks.3172:

Columba.9730:

Jerks.3172:

Columba.9730:

Zephyrus.9680:

Columba.9730:

Happy to see others viewing this as a problem too. However, I think ANet needs to focus only on stealth to prevent perma stealthing. perhaps permastealthing doesn’t happen in spvp, but it’s rampant in wvwvw, as the myriad videos clearly show. Thieves in wvw can and do remain 100% stealthed while attacking the entire time. I doubt this is working as intended, and my guess is that culling enables thieves to bridge stealthed to non stealthed periods. A reveal debuff is more than reasonable and won’t hurt the class. good thieves will manage, others who don’t need to l2p.

First, any attacks that hit will break stealth, AND YES, they will reveal debuff the thief (OP video is an exploit if you didn’t realize yet).

Second, when I’m on my hammer-shout warrior I’m about 5 times more valuable in a zerg than on my thief.

Culling happens whether you’re a thief or any other class and it doesn’t matter if half a zerg is culled or stealth because AoE will hit regardless (and most damage in this game IS AoE).

Not sure what mechanic you would want changed. The D/P ‘perma stealth’ build is hard to play and isn’t even that effective. Everything else uses CnD which needs to hit.

Counters to stealth include stun, daze, blind, dodge, snare. And a bit of burst damage.

If you don’t understand a class, you won’t know the first thing how to fight it and it’s even more significant with thief because even their attacks rely on stealth. I’m guessing that’s why theres so much complaining on the forums, when by comparison, a D/D ele beats theif in almost every category (solo, small scale fights, and zerging).

nope, there’s evidence all over that thieves can attack and remain stealthed. videos have the evidence. secondly, I can see other classes as they attempt to unload their high cooldown low cast time attacks. unlike thieves that can spam high damage attacks and remain stealthed. lol.

Constant dps while staying in stealth? your kidding right? The only thing that keeps thieves in stealth while doing damage is CnD at the very last second of tick of stealth to renew it. if you do it at any other time you will get immune and get revealed.

I don’t know whom you think you are fooling. we all experience perma stealthed thieves attacking us in wvw. you aren’t fooling any of us since we experience it all the time. there are dozens upon dozens of videos showing how to do it.

K, post me a video of a thief staying cloaked and hitting you every second for 10 seconds. Hmm. yeah there isnt any.

Lol but they can bleed the crap out of you while they stay invisible. Just look for wild bill’s videos.

Yea sure, P/D are annoying but you can use condition removal + cc with tab targeting. But Columbia is talking about D/P since he is always ranting about Permastealth.

regarding your first statement. I also run P/D on my thief. Condition removal don’t do much to stop me since i can easily reapply the bleeds. At battles or terrains of my choosing, cc can be avoided due to stealth (and culling advantage). Only class i really would run from is a guardian.

So, Columba still waiting on your response where is the video that shows constant damage without dropping stealth.
You say
“I don’t know whom you think you are fooling. we all experience perma stealthed thieves attacking us in wvw. you aren’t fooling any of us since we experience it all the time. there are dozens upon dozens of videos showing how to do it.”

So clearly there must be a video out there.

Jerks.3172:

I need to L2P

We can tell ….

Sue.4361:

Jerks.3172:

I need to L2P

We can tell ….

You in the same guild as columba or something lol ? Do you have anything to say about what i said to columba be my guest enlighten me. If i’m wrong i’d gladly admit it, but until you show me some proof columba is just being a hard headed person. Many players have killed and outplayed a thief when its “OP” according to him. I understand your mad and all but doing pitiful jokes like that will get you no where.

Jerks.3172:

So, Columba still waiting on your response where is the video that shows constant damage without dropping stealth.
You say
“I don’t know whom you think you are fooling. we all experience perma stealthed thieves attacking us in wvw. you aren’t fooling any of us since we experience it all the time. there are dozens upon dozens of videos showing how to do it.”

So clearly there must be a video out there.

look around. they are plastered all over the forums. not going to do your homework for you.

Columba.9730:

Jerks.3172:

So, Columba still waiting on your response where is the video that shows constant damage without dropping stealth.
You say
“I don’t know whom you think you are fooling. we all experience perma stealthed thieves attacking us in wvw. you aren’t fooling any of us since we experience it all the time. there are dozens upon dozens of videos showing how to do it.”

So clearly there must be a video out there.

look around. they are plastered all over the forums. not going to do your homework for you.

I have looked around but i have yet to see any video of perma stealth while doing damage and staying stealthed and dont bother showing me a thief CnDing every 3 seconds cause its not constant dps like you said. So please help me there cause apparently they are everywhere.

Jerks.3172:

Columba.9730:

vespers.1759:

i think it’s unfair that my rapid fire can do 7k in 10 hits but a thief can do 7k+ in 1 hit. i got hit for a 5k steal today. come on. anyone can dodge my rapid fire, no one can dodge a steal from invis.

i don’t mind high dmg, but when you can hit 1 button and do it, or hit the same button and do it multiple times it jsut gets old very fast. also stealth stomp… come on.

i watched a thief dance around 10 people today downing and stomping from stealth. then he ran away.

90% of solo players i see in wvwvw are thieves. at this point i just run away when i see a thief, because i don’t stand a chance. it isn’t a L2P issue. i can handle other classes minus eles and some mesmers alright, but thieves are just something else.

yep, l2p addressed to all non thief players is pretty meaningless. It seems like desparation.

How is it meaningless ? People tell you how to counter thieves yet you say “durr nope impossible” and come up with another stupid arguement which we tell you off again then you go back to the first one its the same with you.. lol

You only rotate by perma stealth,culling, cant target. yet we told you all the ways you can find kill thieves for all these problems.

Stealth Meh. I don’t see it as a huge issue. The culling rendering aspect is HUGE! I feel like this needs addressed first and foremost because when a p/d thief is attacking you and his burst is done THEN he appears. There is a problem. If they get culling fixed and everything working properly and the revealed debuff actually WORKS. Then we can see what can/should/if anything will be done about stealth.

jportell.2197:

Jerks.3172:

Columba.9730:

vespers.1759:

i think it’s unfair that my rapid fire can do 7k in 10 hits but a thief can do 7k+ in 1 hit. i got hit for a 5k steal today. come on. anyone can dodge my rapid fire, no one can dodge a steal from invis.

i don’t mind high dmg, but when you can hit 1 button and do it, or hit the same button and do it multiple times it jsut gets old very fast. also stealth stomp… come on.

i watched a thief dance around 10 people today downing and stomping from stealth. then he ran away.

90% of solo players i see in wvwvw are thieves. at this point i just run away when i see a thief, because i don’t stand a chance. it isn’t a L2P issue. i can handle other classes minus eles and some mesmers alright, but thieves are just something else.

yep, l2p addressed to all non thief players is pretty meaningless. It seems like desparation.

How is it meaningless ? People tell you how to counter thieves yet you say “durr nope impossible” and come up with another stupid arguement which we tell you off again then you go back to the first one its the same with you.. lol

You only rotate by perma stealth,culling, cant target. yet we told you all the ways you can find kill thieves for all these problems.

Stealth Meh. I don’t see it as a huge issue. The culling rendering aspect is HUGE! I feel like this needs addressed first and foremost because when a p/d thief is attacking you and his burst is done THEN he appears. There is a problem. If they get culling fixed and everything working properly and the revealed debuff actually WORKS. Then we can see what can/should/if anything will be done about stealth.

Yes the culling is pretty big. but its really irritating people screaming nerf this nerf that when they don’t even take the time to learn how to deal with it.

lol wait…
A warrior…
And a HAMMER warrior at that….
Surely you jest
Stability wrecks your kitten all day errday
Your damage is bad as well

Free badges waiting to happen.

Too cute

I think people who are trying to cite warrior burst to justify thieves are truly desperate. Warriors aren’t even that good. No one is complaining about them here. This alone shows that some people are feeling real fear of actual nerfs. They are guilty as charged and it gives a perspective of how deeply problematic the stealth issue is.

okay so a thief breaks stealth upon attack either

A. i die to his opening combo
B. i live and knock him away. then i try to DPS him but alas he has restealthed and is gone.

am i supposed to try to kill him in the 3 seconds he’s visible? what other class can be expected to be downed in 3 seconds?

the thieves in this thread are grasping at straws. your class is broken and you should feel dirty for playing it.

edit: i should add that survving such a combo usually leaves me with <8% hp so i’m pretty easy to finish off with a 3k basic attack.

Jerks.3172:

So, Columba still waiting on your response where is the video that shows constant damage without dropping stealth.
You say.

i have to agree that a thief can not do constant damage while in stealth. I have been hit by thieves up to 4 times while i could not see them. I look at the combat log and it will say “xxxx damage from unknowns”.

however this is not an intended thief mechanic and more than likely one of two things.

1. culling from being in a large scale fight.
2. the clipping bug caused from a hasted back stab combo.here is a link to a post that shows the haste clipping bug.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Thief-burst-new-combo/first

I have no problems with these two as hopefully they will get fixed.

what i do hate though is that when i get jumped by a thief (its usually a d/p and S/D) is that when i get him/her down to half life then they can just C&D repeatedly as long as they time it right and never get the reveal debuff. there isn’t anything i can do about it as he/she can C&D off of my pet, guards, mobs, critters, doors, siege, walls and probably some blade of grass (will have to test the last one) i believe that as long as the thief is in combat they should receive the revealed debuff every time they exit stealth not only when they damage from stealth.

i believe this small change would help balance the stealth mechanic without destroying the thief game play.

I just came to say: thieves don’t rule W3, zergs do.

Shadowkx.2738:

@ all the i handle thieves just fine posts…
Post the vids. That is all. No more l2p, no more spvp, post the vids of you in WvW handling a decent lvl 80 thief, and no vids of you playing a thief to counter a thief.

I can post links to plenty of vids of thieves handling groups so i just want to see your proof.

You know of a good recording software besides fraps ( fraps kittens with my fps like a nagging wife) thats free.

I would be happy to roam WvW and look for thieves and record my encouters.
I may even stream it

I find it funny… some people have made the comment that thieves rock in PvP and WvW because they just 2 button… but they always drop dead in PvE because the player has no skill to play the thief beyond pushing 2 buttons. Now, in my experience, PvE is always easier than PvP… doesnt matter the game. So if a thief cant hack it in PvE then please please please tell me why you have problems with them in PvP? Or is it that your issue isnt with the thief so much as it is with your ego telling you that since you own in PvE you should own in PvP without altering your tactics to match the increased threat?
I have heard this kind of rhetoric before in many many games from Star Wars Galaxies to City of Heroes and Everquest… always someone moaning about a single class that they have a tough time combating in PvP… it always comes to the same thing, however… they cant defeat them so they have to whine. The outcome has been the same in every game as well… the devs get out the nerf bat, make the “offending” class obsolete and a new “flavor of the month” is created. Its sick, its wrong, and frankly it is idiotic. If you as a player cant handle a thief in PvP how about looking at your tactics and your strategy rather than pointing to the thief and saying he is OP. Take some responsibility for your own skill level without putting the blame on everyone else.
Oh for those of you who said my computer cant keep up with a thief in stealth it doesnt render them so they have perma stealth… well, trade in your little tandy 1000 for a big boy computer ok.

Magnetron.5823:

I agree, thiefs rule in WvW.. i have never seen a more powerfull class that deals that much damage in just 6 strikes in 3 seconds.

3400 toughness and still down in 6 hits, and the thief only presses 1 skill.

I thought this game was skill based.

I call shenanigans, I run 1940 tough on my necro and can ignore thief well I kill his buddy then turn and kill him too. Did you cc or dodge at all? Come on man even if thief is over powered making kitten up is not helping you.

lettucemode.3789:

Riselight.3695:

godknows what other Thief Skills are OP

You know, admitting that you don’t know how a Thief works doesn’t really help your argument.

I have a thief myself, so I do know how it works. I don’t have as many hours on it as my Elementalist, so I couldn’t try out all of the builds yet

My favorite thing about all this, thieves can go whatever armor set they want and still be hard to kill because of the broken stealth mechanic. Every other class needs to stack PVT if they wanna be tanky in WvW. If that isn’t unbalanced, I don’t know what is. People pro thief have said numerous times in this thread “get PVT gear” yet the thief gets to wear whatever they want. Those D/D eles, they survive because they probably have a trait build that allows for that and has armor that allows for that. Thieves can wear zerker gear, and be as hard to kill as someone in full PVT items. Yep, stealth is not a broken mechanic at all. ANet, learn from mistakes of past MMOs and fix this crap…..owait, this MMO is like we’re in 2006 where mass grind was ok and pvp had balance issues all over the place (even WoW fixed the balance issues rogues had) – this is 2013 though, get with the times.

Magiofdeath.2745:

My favorite thing about all this, thieves can go whatever armor set they want and still be hard to kill because of the broken stealth mechanic. Every other class needs to stack PVT if they wanna be tanky in WvW. If that isn’t unbalanced, I don’t know what is. People pro thief have said numerous times in this thread “get PVT gear” yet the thief gets to wear whatever they want. Those D/D eles, they survive because they probably have a trait build that allows for that and has armor that allows for that. Thieves can wear zerker gear, and be as hard to kill as someone in full PVT items. Yep, stealth is not a broken mechanic at all. ANet, learn from mistakes of past MMOs and fix this crap…..owait, this MMO is like we’re in 2006 where mass grind was ok and pvp had balance issues all over the place (even WoW fixed the balance issues rogues had) – this is 2013 though, get with the times.

Again, I encourage you all, to send WvWvW,to send persistent, cogent and respectful feedback to anet.

vespers.1759:

i think it’s unfair that my rapid fire can do 7k in 10 hits but a thief can do 7k+ in 1 hit. i got hit for a 5k steal today. come on. anyone can dodge my rapid fire, no one can dodge a steal from invis.

i don’t mind high dmg, but when you can hit 1 button and do it, or hit the same button and do it multiple times it jsut gets old very fast. also stealth stomp… come on.

i watched a thief dance around 10 people today downing and stomping from stealth. then he ran away.

90% of solo players i see in wvwvw are thieves. at this point i just run away when i see a thief, because i don’t stand a chance. it isn’t a L2P issue. i can handle other classes minus eles and some mesmers alright, but thieves are just something else.

So umm let me get this straight… you are complaining about thieves because you cant take them but other classes that you admit you cant take them are ok? Sounds like a bias to me

TexZero.7910:

Zephyrus.9680:

Columba.9730:

nope, there’s evidence all over that thieves can attack and remain stealthed. videos have the evidence. secondly, I can see other classes as they attempt to unload their high cooldown low cast time attacks. unlike thieves that can spam high damage attacks and remain stealthed. lol.

Well I have a 80 Thief with hundreds of hours in PvP and I’m just informing you the class can’t attack and remain stealth. Period. There’s no consipracy here.

It can attack just after stealth duration ends naturally and then restealth instantly but that’s a single attack, almost no damage, and it still gives away position.

Secondly, that’s called class difference. Theves don’t have 25k HP + massive toughness + 3 out of 5 of their weapon skills being high AoE CC for example (aka zerg busting hammer warrior).

I call BS, and i dont mean backstab.

Plenty of videos have been posted showing exactly how to perma stealth and how to stay stealthed. Yes hitting someone as a Thief breaks stealth, however that is not what people are asking for. They want a theif to be knocked out of stealth when damaged, its that simple.

Also, your Zerg busting hammer warrior…Remind me again how it crits for 12k on a squishy and how it’s able to break LoS on a 2 second cooldown and heal to full.

Cause even running a Shout-Heal Hammer warrior you just cannot beat the fight resetting get out of jail free theives currently have.

PS Those skills cooldowns that you are mentioning are stupidly longer than any thieves skill cooldowns.

But when a thief runs out of initiative, then the cool down is however long it takes to regain initiative. And some of the thief initiative skills cost 5 or 6 initiative to activate. Initiative regens 1 per 10 seconds… 2 if spec’d right. At max a thief can have 13 inititative so spamming say CnD (which costs 5 init) means it can be done 3 times before init is empty and thats using no other skill. Heart Seeker is the same way. Granted, some of the stealth line lets you regain init faster. then again other classes have ways of reducing cool down periods as well.

Mesmers, elementalists, etc don’t have a broken stealth mechanic that’s further broken by culling. Yeah mesmers have stealth too, but it can’t be used as often as thieves’ AFAIK. Not able to kill something because they know how to play their class well or because they are stacked with defensive attributes/traits (defensive eles for instance) is a lot different than not being able to kill something you can’t see. Again, thieves can wear w/e armor they want due to stealth. Every other class has to have PVT/defensive traits to survive that well. That’s unbalanced.

its been a ridiculous almost 3 months since the thief thread (which followed long weeks/months of massive QQ on the forum) and nothing has been done at all.. whats the problem anet?