Guild Wars 2

Howdy everyone! This threads purpose is to give a place to the GvG scene talk. Since the guilds that practice GvG form the strong core of the WvW population, and the matches are celebrated in WvW maps, there is literally no place better for us than here, our home.

These matches were born out of the desire to answer a very simple question:

-“WHICH GUILD IS THE STRONGEST?”

The questions are formated in 15v15 and 20v20 deathmatch rounds, formulated traditionally in the green fields of the southern frontier camp. Spectators typically attend the match, placing themselves in the slope. Food buffs are allowed, but sigil and guard stacks are frowned upon, as is ressing stomped players.

Newcomers feel free to ask any questions to the veterans, and vets, please direct all your news, comments and feelings on the scene here, for easier grabbing :P

Love you all stay strong o/

Register your guild, follow scores and ladder, and watch my GvG videos here, in GvG.com
http://gw2gvg.com/
(Webmaster MartyPartys.9187)

I would like to use this new thread to maybe discuss some etiquette rules. especially for spectators.

I think all spectators should be in townclothes so it is obvious that they do not interfere. The only reason not to be in townclothes is because they killed the warthogs (very nice of them) or because they accidentally got hit by the playing guilds.

Do NOT interfere, it is just mean.

I’m a bit conflicted over this but if there is a queue and you are just a spectator with no stake in the game (i.e. it is not your guild playing nor are you playing against any of the guilds soon) you should be nice and watch the stream so the guilds that actually fight can get their players in, you can always queue to get back in later. Most fights are streamed from several pov’s. Nobody can force you to leave but you could leave the BL just to be nice, I know everybody will appreciate it.

Speaking of ethics or rules – anyone else think ghost tonics should be frowned upon?
Focusing specific players seems like a legitimate tactic to me and preventing it in that manner just seems a bit … underhanded (?)

Caid.4932:

Speaking of ethics or rules – anyone else think ghost tonics should be frowned upon?
Focusing specific players seems like a legitimate tactic to me and preventing it in that manner just seems a bit … underhanded (?)

It’s a counter to your “legitimate tactic”. Why would you give another guild the upper-hand when it’s something you can control? Also, the leader is typically the person jumping in first.

Ghost tonics are and should remain fully allowed.

Big point beign made here… I like the idea of town clothes for spectators, but it could lead to terrorism. I mean any decent pvper will give it a thought after seeing troves of defenseless and almost naked fans gather. We cant forget there is a war going on.

And about ghost pots.. valid claim, this tradition might be a carry over from WvW mentality that really doesnt fit in clean-cut fair and square competition. Thoughts are welcome, but if i try to be unbiased, I see them going.

Take ghost tonics away and everyone can still use gems to customize their characters to look exactly the same.

Ogre.1750:

Big point beign made here… I like the idea of town clothes for spectators, but it could lead to terrorism. I mean any decent pvper will give it a thought after seeing troves of defenseless and almost naked fans gather. We cant forget there is a war going on.

And about ghost pots.. valid claim, this tradition might be a carry over from WvW mentality that really doesnt fit in clean-cut fair and square competition. Thoughts are welcome, but if i try to be unbiased, I see them going.

The second you take damage you switch back into your normal clothes and regain access to all skills. So it wouldn not matter that much. In a perfect world everyone would just /sit but then they might not be able to follow the fight if clash is occurring to the sides.

I don’t mind the potions and I don’t think it gives that great of an advantage.

That is incredibly awesome and covenient Caliban, guess it shows how much ive used those overall :P Might have to get myself an up to date set :/ And maybe a shave

My vote would go for enforcing town clothes on spectators then. No risk involved and would be neat as hell to see plus added security and easier to spot hooligans and terrorists.

As for the ghost tonics.. you gotta think audience here… meta & terrain already make it pretty cluttered and hard to read at times, ghost multiplies that effect to absurd levels. I got no prob with guilds pulling of amazing team effort and showing up as exactly the same toon with 2-3 variations, that could be incredibly amazing. Much better than ghost gallore, and much easier to follow.

LilMcGinley.3890:

Caid.4932:

Speaking of ethics or rules – anyone else think ghost tonics should be frowned upon?
Focusing specific players seems like a legitimate tactic to me and preventing it in that manner just seems a bit … underhanded (?)

It’s a counter to your “legitimate tactic”.

Well yeah but bringing 40 to a 20 man gvg is probably a pretty good counter to most groups. Not all counters are necessarily fair or should be considered legit.
Yeah you could use gems and what not but different races, sexes and heights will pretty much always give away who’s who if your familiar with the guild involved.

Im kind of on the fence about it personally. I think it can be nice to recognise the person leading as it can give you an early warning about where the melee are off to.
For focusing particular people … you can mark them or if its a guy who’s gotten seperated from the group its not really going to matter what he looks like.
Probably doesn’t really matter. Just curious on peoples thoughts on it.

I think the non-ghost tonic gvg’ers are traditionalists. they are relying on group synergy, skill and tactics to win.

Ghost tonic groups are typically more gimmick I feel.

Two schools of thought.

To interest me much, GvG would need some sort of interesting terrain and objective based play beyond “wipe enemy group”. There is definitely skill and coordination in GvG groups, but it seems lackluster to me.

What I’d really like to see (and what may have been the intention of the game, looking at certain systems) is guilds claiming towers and challenging other guilds to take them as GvG. That would add several layers to the strategy involved. Limits on siege would need to be agreed upon the same way limits on numbers and sigil stacks, consumables, etc currently are. Holding the fort against randoms and trolls may make it impossible in reality though.

Running in circles in a very small, flat area, playing small scale ZvZ deathmatch style really favors certain compositions and builds. Someone suggested enlisting the sPvP map team to make a 20v20(ish) GvG map, and I think that’s a great idea. In fact, I think it might make a more successful esport than the current incarnation of tPvP.

I personally don’t believe the single targeting tactic works at all.
Had it on me most times and if I really needed it I would just get banner’ed back up while they would sacrifice 3 of their players for me in downstate, or an ele on my team.

Only our warriors and myself run tonics 95% of the time, leaving our ele’s and other casters vulnerable to single targeting. I am still vulnerable to single targeting because I use my sunrise every fight, and I am the only guardian in ghost.

The only reason I don’t believe ghost is an advantage is because it is a consumable. Anybody can use it, it is not some software to give you the advantage, or an arrow cart you build. It is just like food and oil, you pop it and bam your a ghost.
If we are going to start attacking a consumable because it disguises a kittenty appearance for a kitten blue ghost, then we should address the issue of warbanner as well.

Warbanner if anything should be removed from GvG or even up for discussion. Bringing people back from the dead 15 times is worse than a blue ghost imo.

Good idea making this thread and adding the common rules; should be sticky imo.
you prolly should add a link to the unofficial gvg website in your initial post tho aswell as explaining the common way of communication for the gvg, like 8:00 means you can start moving when the map timer hits 8:00; writing gg to the other leader means you surrender → both teams stop attacking/finishing

ghost tonics are imo no obstacle for a good guild; just ppl that rely on the use of a commander tag in order to target the enemy leader cant handle them.
as someone already said, everybody could just use same race/skin/armor what would be totally legit, so why not use tonics directly.

Caid.4932:

Speaking of ethics or rules – anyone else think ghost tonics should be frowned upon?
Focusing specific players seems like a legitimate tactic to me and preventing it in that manner just seems a bit … underhanded (?)

The thing is… I knew what sacrx looked like. I know what Mithrillx looks like. I know what Vanz looks like. I could very easily focus these without a ghost tonic. However when we fight guilds who we don’t know, but they know us, and know sylas. It scews the playing field a little. Tonics level it out a bit

The only so-called “advantage” that ghost tonic has is based on appearance. The whole melee train could easily dye armor the same color, and wear the same armor just for gvging. Thus making the ghost tonic arguement null and void.

I recall certain guilds on maguuma that were able to moa jerico several times in open field while we were using tonics.

I dont understand the basis of this “ghost tonic” argument.

mekkanic.4759:

The only so-called “advantage” that ghost tonic has is based on appearance. The whole melee train could easily dye armor the same color, and wear the same armor just for gvging. Thus making the ghost tonic arguement null and void.

I recall certain guilds on maguuma that were able to moa jerico several times in open field while we were using tonics.

I dont understand the basis of this “ghost tonic” argument.

hi i would be that moaer. usually i find that people using ghost tonics are the ones that people are following so it kind of makes it easier to pick them out. especially when playing on lowest settings where everyone is the same color except the people using tonics

ghost tonics aside
i would like to bring up the topic of meteor shower + tornado
and what your opinion is on the whole thing?
should it be frowned upon or should it be allowed?

me personally, i dont care either way but since you are a pretty authoritative figure on the gvg scene, it would help clear things up so people know if its allowed or not

As this Tornade + Meteor Storm is nothing more than using your abilities, I don’t see why it’s not allowed. If it is an exploit, Anet should do something about it. Also, there is no way you can see wether staff eles are using this or not.

Talking about ghost pots: The reason why you would use ghost pots is to make it hard to see the leader for the enemy team. This to prevent cheese strats like moa’ing that leader. I still think ghost pots are OK, in the end it only makes you look different.

Dont see the cheese in moaing Zumos, its a valid strat. Nothing more than using your skills right? It can be countered in many ways, and its not like the moa has 1hp.

My point about pots beign a nuisance to spectators and overall meta study and viewership still stands.. if its not such big of a deal, and you top crews got ways around it, why not just let it go? Im looking after the show aspect of it all, because it has potential. Ppl already gather why not give em a good one?

I mean, kitten once i had like 50 g tonics on me, ive used em a lot, but we gotta be ready for bigger changes in our way to the mainstream. It just makes sense. Just my 2c here tho.

I don’t do townclothes as a spectator, mostly because of <expletive> kids that let themselves autoattack while they afk, but i do frequently take my weapons off of equipped and rock the guild kite, still giving me access to my utils which are stun breaks/swiftness boosts.

It is a lot more fun to see players fight over ghosts fight. Gives a bit more of a team differentiation feeling to it.

Vera Minerva.1739:

I don’t do townclothes as a spectator, mostly because of <expletive> kids that let themselves autoattack while they afk, but i do frequently take my weapons off of equipped and rock the guild kite, still giving me access to my utils which are stun breaks/swiftness boosts.

I’ve never been attacked by an afk person yet and I do expect them to get killed very soon. Problem solved.
The kites are pretty annoying because they can block the view of other people.
And wearing townclothes does give you access to all your skills except for your weapon skills.

Don’t see a problem with Ghost Tonics either. Sure it is a gimmick, but doesn’t unbalance the game nor favor any team as both can use it.

I feel like ghost tonics are fine. A good commander can pick out a backliner by the color of their spells, not the look of their character.

That being said, it is definitely an unfair advantage against groups that like to focus fire. Not a huge advantage, but there definitely is one. I feel like if we wanted to be truly fair, it should be removed from GvGs. But it’s a very minimal difference to me.

o7 to Ogro! This is where this thread belongs! And we deserve less attention from forum trolls and more attention from the devs!

About numbers Id say 15 minimum of the minimum, 20 is the optimal, 25 if you want to make more room for participating guildies, 25+ better do it on a 3 way garrison take (too much).

Ghost Pots I say yes, It would only be a nuisance to remake your melee front just to be a look a like the leader. There are other ways to find it out and that’s part of the skill one should have/develop. Some RL faces/armor are well known and that in itself is an advantage. So I’m 100% for yes. IF some guild REALLY has a BIG problem with it then just set the terms befor the GvG beguins

Meteor Shower + Tornado. 100% yes aswell as the Necro elite both are very powerfull but both have downsides. Both are skills which can be avoided (general area) and the user will be vulnerable during the cast because its like a huge red sign saying kill me now Im huge!

Banners? Rally is a game mechanic and Banner is a Skill so there is no limit for what you can run, its intirely up for the RL to decide their setup, even if it is 20 Warriors running banner or 20 rangers running spirits…

Now Id like to set a new rule:
Go with a set Best out of X from the start. If both parties are interested to continue go for it, if one is happy with the score in the end, then it is set in stone.
So that this way no illmouth can have a say about dodging fights/chicken out w/e.

So far i see no counter point to “for the fans!” in regards to the ghost tonic issue.. and clearly beign no biggie for anyone id say its pretty clear what we must do. I mean, getting over tradition is always hard, but you will see the benefit in the long run.

Id rule ghost tonics are only legal when both teams agree on its usage. Its fair, reasonable, and will promote only good stuff (flashy show, easy to differentiate teams and players, resurgence of other tactics and the odd impressive guild clone team) If you consider everything this seems like the most reasonable and positive option for the community overall.

Also, I sense we all agree on the townsclothes. Please feel free to contribute, we are all one. I actually think its very posible I’ll feature the fruits of these debates on the show.

PD- IRON is for real
edit – Brospeed! submit to change!! :P

I dont entirely get the meteor shower and tornado issue.
Can you cast tornado while channeling meteor shower or something?
Regardless i’d leave things like that to anet, if they see it as an exploit they’ll remove it, if they dont then its intended and fair game.

I think certain people being recognised / recognisable is kind of the price of ‘fame’ and it’ll only apply to particularly good guilds who should be able to overcome it when facing a less recognised group / guild.
If they dont it prob wont take long for the less recognised guild to receive the same treatment so … yeah.
I dunno, think it should be the kind of thing thats pre agreed.

Banner spam is slightly cheesy but it and rallies are a mechanic were kind of stuck with and most seem to deal with them pretty well these days (been put straight back down more or less instantly after receiving one a couple of times recently).
Think the buffs they give are a bigger game changer than the rally part of them these days personally.

Thought the best of part being agreed before hand was pretty much done and dusted tbh.

I’ve fought and enjoyed 10v a few times and think it’d be a shame to drop them, they’re different but fun in their own right. Think they have much more of a place than 25v which is just a mess, the area gvg’s nancy takes place just isn’t suited to numbers that big.

Tonics also save commanders from being focus fired so I think they are very important.

Commander focusing is a relevant strategy in gvg, but I would think it would be frowned upon.

I am on the fence about ghost tonics. I think its definitely a viable tactic and from the players perspective its legit. The point Ogro brings up about it not being spectator friendly, that is true. I definitely do believe that if both sides are using ghost tonics it can get quite muddled for the spectators but to be honest a 20v20 clash is messy to the untrained eye either way whether with ghost tonics or not.

This has always been a mild downfall for MMO’s trying to be competitive as compared to other game titles. I don’t think we should try to market GvG to the casual spectators etc; i.e. try to dumb it down / make it cleaner because the reality is that the MMO’s competitive formats are always messy. I think its much better to just aim for the veteran players / hardcore guilds and through education try to include many other guilds to grow the scene. This means that the entry level to spectating GvGs and understanding/appreciating them is higher initially but eventually through more widespread information it should level out.

On the topic of Banners, I dislike them and would want them to be a mechanic that is not allowed or at least restricted in GvGs. Granted, there is definitely a mini-game / skill in the banner/downed/rally game within every GvG round. My biggest problem with it is that it continues to propagate a stagnant meta of heavy melee train focus. If Banners were restricted or taken out of the picture I think the meta would become creative and evolve quicker. The second issue with the banner mechanic is the duration of each round. Don’t get me wrong I love those epic comebacks when they happen but by having so many banners each round lasts considerably longer and most of the time just delays the inevitable. Attrition playstyle is promoted. This is also not spectator friendly.

For e.g. if say we as a community agreed to restricting banners to only two uses that would change things considerably. Now commanders and warriors alike would have to make split second decisions on WHEN to use the banner, is it worth utilizing it when just that first ally is downed or to use it in case we have more than one downed. Is it a must use when a commander is focused and downed? Or maybe we have just as capable second in command that can take over and we save the banner for later on in the round. It will also make it more interesting imo as it would not be overpowering momentum shifts i.e. a 20 minute round lasting mostly of numbers 12-15 or higher vs 12-15 or higher. I think with restricting banners longer fights start dwindling down to 10v10s and 5v5s and the meta has to quickly adjust and adapt on the fly. People might need to start developing strategies/plans as this happens i.e. to start focus targetting when down to <10v10 etc. It would not be as messy and would be much easier for the untrained eye to understand as well i.e. 20v20 slowly dwindles down to smaller and smaller numbers; feels more epic to me.

I think at the end of the day the spectator friendliness is going to come down to guys like you Ogro. People who put in the work to make episodic series like Showdown and use smart editing to enlighten the viewing experience of a GvG. I hope more people step up and stream the GvGs as well as a few more people who are willing to edit and put stuff together semi-professionally for the scene. If possible it would be nice to have a 4 guild gvg mini tournament if there is a good matchup in NA or EU where four guilds are willing to organize that. I know its a lot of hassle with queues and scheduling etc but it would make the scene more exciting.

@Lanimal: I know some of you guys give a lot of importance to warrior warbanners, but honestly, as a warrior who has barely even slotted the skill myself (i certainly didnt use it ever while in RG, and you know how that goes) I cant but disagree.

As an image is worth more than a thousand words, I recommend you watch SPRT vs OPT on the tube… I think i counted 12 banners at some point… guess what? SPRT lost regardless.

They are a good resource if you got a couple of specialists aboard that know how to and when to drop em, but they are a heavy dps sacrifice.. that choice defangs many builds/crews in favor of cheap aces in the sleeve that go unused or missused many times.

At any rate, I dislike the talk about skills, its really not our place to consider restricting these. Consumables on the other hand are external to characters and classes and should indeed be regulated, as they are.

“Its already pretty messy” cant be seriously a counter argument to ghost tonic regulations. And i cant really agree with your “cleaning=dumbing down” logic, its very much the opposite.

Regardless of any disagreements i appreciate your input and support friend o/

Warbanners are a good aoe dps asset for your team, but lets be honest, not many people are using them as an offensive utility.
Clutch banners win games, and I don’t think they should be discouraged. From a personal opinion though, if you are running more than 3 warbanners, you are accepting that people are going to get downed, and using banners to mask a bigger overall problem within your guild

Ogre.1750:

@Lanimal: I know some of you guys give a lot of importance to warrior warbanners, but honestly, as a warrior who has barely even slotted the skill myself (i certainly didnt use it ever while in RG, and you know how that goes) I cant but disagree.

As an image is worth more than a thousand words, I recommend you watch SPRT vs OPT on the tube… I think i counted 12 banners at some point… guess what? SPRT lost regardless.

They are a good resource if you got a couple of specialists aboard that know how to and when to drop em, but they are a heavy dps sacrifice.. that choice defangs many builds/crews in favor of cheap aces in the sleeve that go unused or missused many times.

At any rate, I dislike the talk about skills, its really not our place to consider restricting these. Consumables on the other hand are external to characters and classes and should indeed be regulated, as they are.

“Its already pretty messy” cant be seriously a counter argument to ghost tonic regulations. And i cant really agree with your “cleaning=dumbing down” logic, its very much the opposite.

Regardless of any disagreements i appreciate your input and support friend o/

I think it comes down to personal preference. I personally love watching high level GvGs but I do find some rounds boring when the losing team is just constantly bannering to stay in the fight and just make the inevitable loss last longer. This happens a lot. I am also one of those peeps who understands why the current meta which is heavy melee train/hammer train focus is efficient and effective but would like to see the wheel reinvented a little bit and more creative compositions and tactics be implemented. However, I think in order to do that we would need a few more tools from ANET such as private guild doritos so we can actually use the target function for new varied tactics.

I have another question for you Ogro, what about figuring out a definite way to ‘end the round’. There are some rounds that end because one team lost 3-4 guys and they choose to stop whereas there are other rounds that go down to the last man, there are some mindgames involved in this im sure; people who are fighting till the last man want to make the other team feel weak xD. That is not spectator friendly as well, its confusing to the new spectator. Every other competitive game has a set way to end the round/match. Right now it is up to one commander saying GG to the other via whisper. Is there any solutions to this? Should there be a time limit per round?

Well, Lanimal, it’s a deathmatch after all, the simplest condition to achieve victory: kill em all!!! I see no problem here… struggling to the last man is a double edge sword as far as morale goes. I personally dislike dying even if my team lost/wiped, for instance. On the other hand I very much enjoyed bashing the struggling remains of an enemy team… and you cant rule out comebacks, rare but real.

Only high level bouts last longer than a minute anyways, or so i seem to percieve. Its a fast biz, the deathmatch biz o7

Ogre.1750:

Only high level bouts last longer than a minute anyways, or so i seem to percieve. Its a fast biz, the deathmatch biz o7

The longest rounds are by far the most fun. Those 5 minute slugfests. The adrenaline when you see someone go down, on either team. The epic comebacks that aren’t won or lost on a single push. I was a sweaty mess by the end of some of the rounds against GD and VotF, i’ll take that over a 1 minute fight any day.

hey mighty gvg kings (or old mans)

in one of our last gvg’s we had some probs with warthogs. Not the enemy guild but just random ppl bringing the warthogs in the fight and causes some rally’s that shouldnt be their also (again random ppl not the guild we fought they where fair) ppl that jump in the fight and atc us during the gvg’s. any tips/solutions to avoid/minimise those anoying this

cheers

If you hold your battles in the EB jp you don’t have to worry about taking player spots, loose critters, or zergs running you over.

about the focus fire thing. i dont think ghosts are the big thing. If you fight a guild you see much in wvw you know their wvw rank of sertain ppl. so in my opinion you can still focus fire based on the wvw ranks of your oponents.

@assasin of warr: IMO the best thing to do is to simply avoid ever using map-chat or commander tags, and to not advertise your GvG beforehand. Instead, record the match and share it publicly later. Trolls don’t camp in the GvG spot 24/7, they come when they hear stuff’s happening. And they come with the specific goal of getting an angry response, so stay calm and polite and eventually they’ll get bored and go away.

@Thesilentflute: zergs attempting (and failing) to run over GvG teams is usually the highlight of an evening :P

Ragnar.4257:

@Thesilentflute: zergs attempting (and failing) to run over GvG teams is usually the highlight of an evening :P

20v50 all day right! /rolls eyes

Thesilentflute.8761:

20v50 all day right! /rolls eyes

You’re running over two guilds. That’s at least 40v50. Throw on top of that all the spectators that will join in and you got at least 80v50. Have fun.

Lanimal.6541:

On the topic of Banners, I dislike them and would want them to be a mechanic that is not allowed or at least restricted in GvGs. Granted, there is definitely a mini-game / skill in the banner/downed/rally game within every GvG round. My biggest problem with it is that it continues to propagate a stagnant meta of heavy melee train focus. If Banners were restricted or taken out of the picture I think the meta would become creative and evolve quicker.

I agree with this.

Benjamin.6235:

Thesilentflute.8761:

20v50 all day right! /rolls eyes

You’re running over two guilds. That’s at least 40v50. Throw on top of that all the spectators that will join in and you got at least 80v50. Have fun.

Lol it’s exhausting explaining everything rationally. A third party group would most likely not attack you because they have a free map to take. One of your own factions on the other hand have enough of a reason to crash the party, but in all reality will prolly be too busy trying to carry the map undermanned with the distraction of “GvG” on it.

Thesilentflute.8761:

Benjamin.6235:

Thesilentflute.8761:

20v50 all day right! /rolls eyes

You’re running over two guilds. That’s at least 40v50. Throw on top of that all the spectators that will join in and you got at least 80v50. Have fun.

Lol it’s exhausting explaining everything rationally. A third party group would most likely not attack you because they have a free map to take. One of your own factions on the other hand have enough of a reason to crash the party, but in all reality will prolly be too busy trying to carry the map undermanned with the distraction of “GvG” on it.

You act like every map has a queue 24/7 and any deviating from the PPT game for an hour will ruin it for your respective server. Look at the list of guilds on http://www.gw2gvg.com/. I bet you will see guilds that you consider to be a pillar of your server on there, and I bet you that one of their gvgs has never inconvenienced your play.

Besides, PPT is just a measure of population and coverage anyways. 20 people from each side hardly will change how the week turns out. Until the score system is revised, GvGs do nothing to hurt people who play for PPT.

Thesilentflute.8761:

Benjamin.6235:

Thesilentflute.8761:

20v50 all day right! /rolls eyes

You’re running over two guilds. That’s at least 40v50. Throw on top of that all the spectators that will join in and you got at least 80v50. Have fun.

Lol it’s exhausting explaining everything rationally. A third party group would most likely not attack you because they have a free map to take. One of your own factions on the other hand have enough of a reason to crash the party, but in all reality will prolly be too busy trying to carry the map undermanned with the distraction of “GvG” on it.

Leave this thread please and take that silliness of people caring about scores with you. We don’t care much for that nonsense.

Niim.9260:

Lanimal.6541:

On the topic of Banners, I dislike them and would want them to be a mechanic that is not allowed or at least restricted in GvGs. Granted, there is definitely a mini-game / skill in the banner/downed/rally game within every GvG round. My biggest problem with it is that it continues to propagate a stagnant meta of heavy melee train focus. If Banners were restricted or taken out of the picture I think the meta would become creative and evolve quicker.

I agree with this.

Correct. It promotes melee heavy play, it brings death without consiquence. It removes exitement because even the best bombs can be totally removed with a single drop of a banner. It is not spectator friendly for the same reason, those times we tried to cast a match with 5+ warbanners on both sides. O, boi those were the worst ones because the match basicly only started after all the banners are gone. You know that those first kills will not matter the least bit because of such heavy banner use.

And pls, OP or viability, and “is it good for the gvg (scene)” are different things. And we are talking about the latter!
I told you this Ogro and you expressed your “AAAA ok now I understand”. But still your counter arguments in this post are “its not overpowered, I never even used it” and “SPRT lost with 12 banners, not op”. We are talking about if it’s healthy for the gvg scene, matches to be about spamming banners for large part of the match.
Just in the same way we could talk about “is it healthy for tpvp for NPCs spawned by players to be so strong” or what ever. It’s about the design.
Odd seeing downed state haters supporting warbanners anyway :P.

It doesn’t bring more tactic or skill in the match due to the Warrior already being so abundant in the match so you can use them extensively. Lanimal.6541 already did a great post about it so I’m not going to go in detail and attempt do the same, just share my /agree. Just watching FURY vs GD sparring matches, which were great and all, but seeing 9 or 10 warbanners in a single cameraview really doesn’t bring warm and fuzzy feelings to my heart.

3 warbanners per team sounds like ideal situation to me.

Sabull.5670:

Niim.9260:

Lanimal.6541:

On the topic of Banners, I dislike them and would want them to be a mechanic that is not allowed or at least restricted in GvGs. Granted, there is definitely a mini-game / skill in the banner/downed/rally game within every GvG round. My biggest problem with it is that it continues to propagate a stagnant meta of heavy melee train focus. If Banners were restricted or taken out of the picture I think the meta would become creative and evolve quicker.

I agree with this.

Correct. It promotes melee heavy play, it brings death without consiquence. It removes exitement because even the best bombs can be totally removed with a single drop of a banner. It is not spectator friendly for the same reason, those times we tried to cast a match with 5+ warbanners on both sides. O, boi those were the worst ones because the match basicly only started after all the banners are gone. You know that those first kills will not matter the least bit because of such heavy banner use.

And pls, OP or viability, and “is it good for the gvg (scene)” are different things. And we are talking about the latter!
I told you this Ogro and you expressed your “AAAA ok now I understand”. But still your counter arguments in this post are “its not overpowered, I never even used it” and “SPRT lost with 12 banners, not op”. We are talking about if it’s healthy for the gvg scene, matches to be about spamming banners for large part of the match.
Just in the same way we could talk about “is it healthy for tpvp for NPCs spawned by players to be so strong” or what ever. It’s about the design.
Odd seeing downed state haters supporting warbanners anyway :P.

It doesn’t bring more tactic or skill in the match due to the Warrior already being so abundant in the match so you can use them extensively. Lanimal.6541 already did a great post about it so I’m not going to go in detail and attempt do the same, just share my /agree. Just watching FURY vs GD sparring matches, which were great and all, but seeing 9 or 10 warbanners in a single cameraview really doesn’t bring warm and fuzzy feelings to my heart.

3 warbanners per team sounds like ideal situation to me.

Any restrictions on skills prevents GvG from remaining an accurate representation and simulation of real open field fights. I use GvG to improve for open field fights, and there are no skill restrictions there.

ParaldaWind.4523:

Sabull.5670:

Niim.9260:

Lanimal.6541:

…

I agree with this.

Correct. It promotes melee heavy play, it brings death without consiquence. It removes exitement because even the best bombs can be totally removed with a single drop of a banner. It is not spectator friendly for the same reason, those times we tried to cast a match with 5+ warbanners on both sides. O, boi those were the worst ones because the match basicly only started after all the banners are gone. You know that those first kills will not matter the least bit because of such heavy banner use.

…

3 warbanners per team sounds like ideal situation to me.

Any restrictions on skills prevents GvG from remaining an accurate representation and simulation of real open field fights. I use GvG to improve for open field fights, and there are no skill restrictions there.

Now THAT is a good counter argument. Againg mayby something could be agreed between the fighting guilds, but really wanna avoid much of those. Differentiates legimatesy … how legit the fight it.

ParaldaWind.4523:

Any restrictions on skills prevents GvG from remaining an accurate representation and simulation of real open field fights. I use GvG to improve for open field fights, and there are no skill restrictions there.

I can find myself in this opinion. If you look at the evolution of open field battle, one of the mayor changes that happened was nerfing the Mesmer. Open field used to be about portalbombs, 4-5 mesmers in a crew with distortion builds etc. Anet nerfed the mesmer and the portals (20 uses), so the scene adapted. With every change Anet brings forward, we will adapt to that.

There is a reason why several professions aren’t that frequently included in guild raids. Some professions are better suited for an open field battle then others, that’s a fact.

I think, if we limit the amount of usage of a skill, we find ourselfs on the territory of PvP, with adapted set of rules and skills. Warbanners aren’t always a good thing. Don’t forget the downed penalty still applies. Each time someone is bannered, they get closer to instant death.

Btw, on a general note, I like this discussion. Most posters talk about the OP, which means this is not a topic about “should GvG exist”, but it’s a topic about “GvG exists and we want to set some general unofficial rules”. Thank you for this.

If we can discus some other topics, I will try to create a first draft of these rules. So let’s discuss

What about the different buffs? I for one think that foodbuffs should be allowed.
On the other hand I don’t like the armorbooster/speedbooster/strenght booster/rejuvination booster/kite fortune. This can be obtained by buying (and drops if you get lucky), so people with money gain advantage on an rather unfair way.

ParaldaWind.4523:

Any restrictions on skills prevents GvG from remaining an accurate representation and simulation of real open field fights. I use GvG to improve for open field fights, and there are no skill restrictions there.

You have to take in account that in open field fights you can use any kind of stacks and even siege. So GvG fights aren’t real open field, because they are actually “fair” fights; unlike open field where some guilds are just bigger then others or having stacks while the other does not.
A restriction onto 3 warbanners would make things much easier, but i think it is close to impossible to check if one guild is actually using only 3 banners and not 4 or even more (as banners disappear after some time you would have to check recording and there you can mix enemy banners with your own banners)

Boosters are a total no go; if someone from the enemy team has a buff running he can’t play until that buff runs out.

I wouldn’t mind banning food buffs, however, unlike stacks you can’t get rid of them. So if you wanted everyone to do without, you’d likely spend alot of time stood around waiting for food to time-out.