Guild Wars 2

The current meta that exists is one of heavy melee train (typically more heavy on the guard) with fairly tanky builds. It uses movement and engagements for attrition with the point being to slowly dwindle down the enemy or to catch them out when they make mistakes. Warbanners help this play-style because it nullifies a more rangy/kiting or DPS heavy composition. The longer the fight lasts typically favors the team that is tankier and better at attrition (movement + downed/banner game mastery) as well as other attributes.

Let me try to use a football analogy to explain my thoughts on Banner. I feel like the current meta is very much a park the bus playstyle (heavy melee, staying compact, playing attrition) with fast players on the break (skilled individual cc-ers or good commanding) to capitalize on a counter-attack when the rival team opens up space (enemy player gets caught in CC or makes mistake). Is it an effective playstyle? It definitely is; Chelsea won the champions league with it last year. Is it fun to watch as a spectator? The majority will probably lean on the ‘no’ side of that question.

I am not saying counter-attacking playstyle is not entertaining, it is when combined with other tactics. Look at Borussia Dortmund, they play a counter-attacking playstyle that is deadly and very entertaining to watch because they cover a lot of ground and have an insane pressing game (harassment). I think right now the ranged harrasment game in GvG exists but is so limited and hasn’t evolved at all. Using the same analogy a guild playing in the way that Dortmund does would utilize multiple groups of two-three ranged to harass and create space (opportunities) for their melee train to exploit.

All I am saying is that I am interested in the meta of GvG to evolve; this can happen via ANET changes, it can also happen by us making a more defined ruleset for GvG such as restricting number of rally utilities (banners, illusion of life etc etc). Other external factors will help as well such as when the gw2gvg website is updated so people are not overly concerned with their rankings and also a culture of scrimmage (unofficial skirmishes) starts to grow where people can test out new tactics and metas.

Disclaimer: I have not read every post and this might be repeated, I apologize in advance but I don’t have time to go through all posts. If this has been discussed before, please disregard the post completely

The biggest thing that bothers me is guilds that are registered to gw2gvg.com, but only accept challenges from guilds they’re sure to beat. That’s just illogical, the challenge is the whole point of a GvG, I could not care less about the rating itself honestly. There is no fun in running over guilds that pose no resistance, I’d rather lose to a good guild.
Also, the rating system makes it so that if you lose to a guild with a much higher rating, you don’t lose that many points. This should be regulated by penalizing guilds that don’t accept challenges (for example, first challenge refused=nothing happens, starting from the next refusal to that same guild within a certain timeframe, the rating of the refusing guild starts to drop, and it does so exponentially for each refusal).

Just my 2 cents.

Prime Radese

So everyone runs necros, engis, and guards?

Tsubus that is a great idea, but at least in NA there are only 22 active guilds the rest were just targets more or less as they have no wins. Without server mobility the matches really rely on who is active in your tier if there is no one active you are either not active or find a target.

I feel nourishments add another depth to the whole scene. For example, choosing between sharpening stones and maintenance oils. Or, will you boost your power or your precision. It makes a whole difference on damage, crits etc.

I think it’s already an unofficial rule to not place siege (to use it “o holy flameram”). It would be a stupid idea to do it because the current meta indeed relies on movement and positioning.

What about the location? Between the Northwest tower of every BL/the north west exit of the spawn (with a road in the middle) and the north supply camp, there is a nice open terrain. Offc, the distance for the none-homeland guild is pretty far, but the terrain is much larger.

Lanimal.6541:

Other external factors will help as well such as when the gw2gvg website is updated so people are not overly concerned with their rankings

Check on that, we can’t get any unofficial official GvG this week :’(

Just fyi, a real skilled open field team that wins fights with the SAME classes everyday 85+% of the time will be a better representation of whose guild is better.

Setting up your so called GvG’s is just a collection of who can bring more counter classes and stack buffs/blast wells more. Sorry, GvG isnt the comparison you all think it is. Glad to see you want to finally move from zerging to fighting people….but “Setting” up your fights to play classes not everyone runs daily is just puzzzzzy kitten.

Guy said it before in this thread, GvG helps you get better for open field, but 99% of the people in this game think GvG is where your merit makes its mark. Start winning all your open field fights with less than your 15-20 basically “counter build teams”.

ParaldaWind.4523:

Any restrictions on skills prevents GvG from remaining an accurate representation and simulation of real open field fights. I use GvG to improve for open field fights, and there are no skill restrictions there.

It is not an accurate representation of real open field fights in the first place. It takes out reaction time, it takes out surprise and need to be alert, it takes out the need to build your group so you can fight much larger groups and in many different situations, etc.

Given those differences I do not think the lack of a rally banner is going to negatively impact your training.

Thesilentflute.8761:

Tsubus that is a great idea, but at least in NA there are only 22 active guilds the rest were just targets more or less as they have no wins. Without server mobility the matches really rely on who is active in your tier if there is no one active you are either not active or find a target.

That can be simply regulated by providing an option to “unlist” your guild from gw2gvg if you’re currently not accepting challenges. Of course it would have to be made so that guilds don’t just list and unlist at will, there should be a delay between unlisting and relisting (something like a month to re-list, and another month to un-list again).

Jscull.2514:

Just fyi, a real skilled open field team that wins fights with the SAME classes everyday 85+% of the time will be a better representation of whose guild is better.

Setting up your so called GvG’s is just a collection of who can bring more counter classes and stack buffs/blast wells more. Sorry, GvG isnt the comparison you all think it is. Glad to see you want to finally move from zerging to fighting people….but “Setting” up your fights to play classes not everyone runs daily is just puzzzzzy kitten.

Guy said it before in this thread, GvG helps you get better for open field, but 99% of the people in this game think GvG is where your merit makes its mark. Start winning all your open field fights with less than your 15-20 basically “counter build teams”.

Show me one top ranked GvG guild that is bad at open field…

I think it’d be pretty tough to police banner use. You’d probably have to go for an all or nothing approach with them really.
Still think the offensive aspect they offer is good enough that there should be no restriction. I think people are learning to cope with and counter them regardless so see no particular need.
Yeah the spectator aspect is important but it think the participant pov should be the no1 priority and i think some players or groups make much better use of them than others.

Has any guild ever tried getting every player to equip a minion summon type elite btw? Could imagine that being pretty hilarious and broken. Someone make it happen pls

Ragnar.4257:

I wouldn’t mind banning food buffs, however, unlike stacks you can’t get rid of them. So if you wanted everyone to do without, you’d likely spend alot of time stood around waiting for food to time-out.

Or you could just over-write it with some cheap 10% exp food.

ParaldaWind.4523:

Jscull.2514:

Just fyi, a real skilled open field team that wins fights with the SAME classes everyday 85+% of the time will be a better representation of whose guild is better.

Setting up your so called GvG’s is just a collection of who can bring more counter classes and stack buffs/blast wells more. Sorry, GvG isnt the comparison you all think it is. Glad to see you want to finally move from zerging to fighting people….but “Setting” up your fights to play classes not everyone runs daily is just puzzzzzy kitten.

Guy said it before in this thread, GvG helps you get better for open field, but 99% of the people in this game think GvG is where your merit makes its mark. Start winning all your open field fights with less than your 15-20 basically “counter build teams”.

Show me one top ranked GvG guild that is bad at open field…

Buddy,

I ran a 5 man for the last year since launch. I watched guilds we crapped on recruit horrible known players from zerg guilds to have enough to compete in your “GvG”……then because they were fighting other bad guilds 15 on 15 started building an ego. Meanwhile, their normal day 7pm primetime team would get rickrolled by our 5. We never changed builds based on who we were fighting (OR added more people)….we went through our builds carefully at the beginning of making our team and built accordingly to what our normal scenarios would be. We never built bunker teams/portal blinding theif teams, bunker mesmer teams….cheese baby cheese….we ran straight up legit builds because we dont make excuses.
GvG land is all bunkers/glass there is no in between.

Sorry, but your fantasy land is just like Anets…“this place is competitive”

….No it’s not.

Chiming in: one thing I noticed in GvG is that it promotes heavy booning, with blast multipliers and the likes. I think that’s the reason why ranged can’t propagate well in GvG – retaliation countering multi-shot ranged plays, as well as conditions not even penetrating through with the prevalence of condition time reduction food, almost nullifying spread condi, and weakening duration boosted condi. Just two cents, though.

Jscull.2514:

Just fyi, a real skilled open field team that wins fights with the SAME classes everyday 85+% of the time will be a better representation of whose guild is better.

With all do respect, I never changed my build depending on the opponents. Only changes were the changes on traits and skills by Anet by which I had to adapt. On our (almost daily) guild raids of at least 3-4h, we only die against the big zergs. Always running our own builds, made for raids/GvG. GvG builds are made to rely on eachother. I have a build that supports my fellow raiders not only myself. Difference between PvP and GvG I guess.

5 man teams are roamers or belong, for competitive reasons, in tPvP.

Advent Leader.1083:

Chiming in: one thing I noticed in GvG is that it promotes heavy booning, with blast multipliers and the likes. I think that’s the reason why ranged can’t propagate well in GvG – retaliation countering multi-shot ranged plays, as well as conditions not even penetrating through with the prevalence of condition time reduction food, almost nullifying spread condi, and weakening duration boosted condi. Just two cents, though.

I disagree with your statement on ranged classes. Although you’re right that retaliation CAN kill you, it won’t happen to a caster that knows what he’s doing. Take for example the meteor shower of the elementalist, yes you can drop it on top of the kill zone where the retal uptime is almost 100% or you can wait for their restack, let a mesmer/necro rip the boons and you’re good to go.

A melee train has good damage for sure, but imo most of the damage comes from the casters, not necessarily direct damage, also conditions and soft cc which will give the melee an easier time.

It’s true that conditions are easily cleansed, but that is where your melee train comes in, to keep the pressure up. Don’t give them time for restacks and they will be very limited to condition removal or at least under heavy pressure.

Advent Leader.1083:

Chiming in: one thing I noticed in GvG is that it promotes heavy booning, with blast multipliers and the likes. I think that’s the reason why ranged can’t propagate well in GvG – retaliation countering multi-shot ranged plays, as well as conditions not even penetrating through with the prevalence of condition time reduction food, almost nullifying spread condi, and weakening duration boosted condi. Just two cents, though.

Well, the aoe-limit is in part to blame for melee-balling. However, the main reason for melee being the meta is because only melee can effectively “burst”, and because it’s much easier to focus melee-damage on a single point (“everyone stick tight to leader and spam skills around him”) than it is to focus ranged damage (particularly if you can’t use the target-system because you have to target the leader instead).

Because it’s incredibly easy to get back to full health if you survive a clash, the strategy in GvG, and high-end WvW in general, is to make sure you burst players all the way from full-health to downed before they can even react, escape, and recover. Melee are just much better at providing that insta-kill burst damage.

You can make ranged-damage work, but it’s much harder to do effectively.

Caid.4932:

I dont entirely get the meteor shower and tornado issue.
Can you cast tornado while channeling meteor shower or something?
Regardless i’d leave things like that to anet, if they see it as an exploit they’ll remove it, if they dont then its intended and fair game.

It’s not so much of a bug, but a clever use of mechanics. The same kind of thing was highly used in World of Warcraft.

The basic idea is that Meteor Shower, Necro wells, and other spells of the sort snapshot your stats before every tick and do not remain static throughout the entire duration. Therefore, if you were to suddenly boost your power while the meteor shower is still ticking, the following ticks would be greatly buffed. Using Tornado, Lich Form, Tome of Wrath, etc boosts your base power by a considerable amount, therefore inflating the following Meteor Shower/Well/Symbol ticks.

Personally I’m quite aware and used to it since it’s very similar to the Damage over Time spell mechanics in WoW and I don’t consider it a bug, but others do, hence the uncertainty.

3 Warbanners seems pretty reasonable to me, that is enough to revive 15 people.

Maybe settle the eternal battle of rezzing dead or not rezzing dead while you are at it.

Slomo.1029:

Maybe settle the eternal battle of rezzing dead or not rezzing dead while you are at it.

Dead not downed

Rezzing dead during fight = no
Rezzing dead after fight = yes

tsubus.8761:

The biggest thing that bothers me is guilds that are registered to gw2gvg.com, but only accept challenges from guilds they’re sure to beat. That’s just illogical, the challenge is the whole point of a GvG, I could not care less about the rating itself honestly. There is no fun in running over guilds that pose no resistance, I’d rather lose to a good guild.
Also, the rating system makes it so that if you lose to a guild with a much higher rating, you don’t lose that many points. This should be regulated by penalizing guilds that don’t accept challenges (for example, first challenge refused=nothing happens, starting from the next refusal to that same guild within a certain timeframe, the rating of the refusing guild starts to drop, and it does so exponentially for each refusal).

Just my 2 cents.

Prime Radese

This is a legitimate concern. Each Friday as the Match reset happens, we contact all guilds listed as available to organise the weeks GvG’s. The first response is generally “What guild are you from?”. Upon answering it’s a case of “No” for reasons such as “we don’t have enough players” or “key players are on holiday”.

It’s a kick in the teeth to see these guilds running with 30 odd in WvW and GvGing other guilds in the same week they’ve refused you. Starter guilds seem more eager to learn than mid/high table guys are willing to risk their precious points. (IMO these practice/non-official matches that go on are a joke)

Are we approaching a situation where the higher up you go on Gw2GvG the less likely you are to get matches?

Vanz.5976:

tsubus.8761:

The biggest thing that bothers me is guilds that are registered to gw2gvg.com, but only accept challenges from guilds they’re sure to beat. That’s just illogical, the challenge is the whole point of a GvG, I could not care less about the rating itself honestly. There is no fun in running over guilds that pose no resistance, I’d rather lose to a good guild.
Also, the rating system makes it so that if you lose to a guild with a much higher rating, you don’t lose that many points. This should be regulated by penalizing guilds that don’t accept challenges (for example, first challenge refused=nothing happens, starting from the next refusal to that same guild within a certain timeframe, the rating of the refusing guild starts to drop, and it does so exponentially for each refusal).

Just my 2 cents.

Prime Radese

This is a legitimate concern. Each Friday as the Match reset happens, we contact all guilds listed as available to organise the weeks GvG’s. The first response is generally “What guild are you from?”. Upon answering it’s a case of “No” for reasons such as “we don’t have enough players” or “key players are on holiday”.

It’s a kick in the teeth to see these guilds running with 30 odd in WvW and GvGing other guilds in the same week they’ve refused you. Starter guilds seem more eager to learn than mid/high table guys are willing to risk their precious points. (IMO these practice/non-official matches that go on are a joke)

Are we approaching a situation where the higher up you go on Gw2GvG the less likely you are to get matches?

LIGHTBULB!

Shouldnt be setting up fights…should just be having these fights in open field.

Jscull.2514:

Vanz.5976:

tsubus.8761:

The biggest thing that bothers me is guilds that are registered to gw2gvg.com, but only accept challenges from guilds they’re sure to beat. That’s just illogical, the challenge is the whole point of a GvG, I could not care less about the rating itself honestly. There is no fun in running over guilds that pose no resistance, I’d rather lose to a good guild.
Also, the rating system makes it so that if you lose to a guild with a much higher rating, you don’t lose that many points. This should be regulated by penalizing guilds that don’t accept challenges (for example, first challenge refused=nothing happens, starting from the next refusal to that same guild within a certain timeframe, the rating of the refusing guild starts to drop, and it does so exponentially for each refusal).

Just my 2 cents.

Prime Radese

This is a legitimate concern. Each Friday as the Match reset happens, we contact all guilds listed as available to organise the weeks GvG’s. The first response is generally “What guild are you from?”. Upon answering it’s a case of “No” for reasons such as “we don’t have enough players” or “key players are on holiday”.

It’s a kick in the teeth to see these guilds running with 30 odd in WvW and GvGing other guilds in the same week they’ve refused you. Starter guilds seem more eager to learn than mid/high table guys are willing to risk their precious points. (IMO these practice/non-official matches that go on are a joke)

Are we approaching a situation where the higher up you go on Gw2GvG the less likely you are to get matches?

LIGHTBULB!

Shouldnt be setting up fights…should just be having these fights in open field.

Groups/guilds are far more likely to run away in an instantaneous open field fight so they can get the upper-hand… which completely negates any level playing field which a structured GvG standard tries to implement.

Vanz.5976:

tsubus.8761:

The biggest thing that bothers me is guilds that are registered to gw2gvg.com, but only accept challenges from guilds they’re sure to beat. That’s just illogical, the challenge is the whole point of a GvG, I could not care less about the rating itself honestly. There is no fun in running over guilds that pose no resistance, I’d rather lose to a good guild.
Also, the rating system makes it so that if you lose to a guild with a much higher rating, you don’t lose that many points. This should be regulated by penalizing guilds that don’t accept challenges (for example, first challenge refused=nothing happens, starting from the next refusal to that same guild within a certain timeframe, the rating of the refusing guild starts to drop, and it does so exponentially for each refusal).

Just my 2 cents.

Prime Radese

This is a legitimate concern. Each Friday as the Match reset happens, we contact all guilds listed as available to organise the weeks GvG’s. The first response is generally “What guild are you from?”. Upon answering it’s a case of “No” for reasons such as “we don’t have enough players” or “key players are on holiday”.

It’s a kick in the teeth to see these guilds running with 30 odd in WvW and GvGing other guilds in the same week they’ve refused you. Starter guilds seem more eager to learn than mid/high table guys are willing to risk their precious points. (IMO these practice/non-official matches that go on are a joke)

Are we approaching a situation where the higher up you go on Gw2GvG the less likely you are to get matches?

I am missing something. Why are practice matches a joke? Honestly GvG for me is all about practice and good fights. Ranking is pretty irrelevant on the website anyway because it is very frequently quite inaccurate. And it is hard for servers to prove themselves across tiers. Number three NA guild is from Eredon Terrace over Night Shift? Okay. Yes, it is nice to have some general idea of where guilds stand, but if people are taking it so seriously then maybe the lesser evil is to get rid of rankings and only track history. I am sure we will not reach consensus on that, though. This is a social problem and it will not be fixed by rules and regulations, in my opinion.

LilMcGinley.3890:

Jscull.2514:

LIGHTBULB!

Shouldnt be setting up fights…should just be having these fights in open field.

Groups/guilds are far more likely to run away in an instantaneous open field fight so they can get the upper-hand… which completely negates any level playing field which a structured GvG standard tries to implement.

Just ignore this guy in this kind of threads. There is no use for that.

LilMcGinley.3890:

Jscull.2514:

Vanz.5976:

tsubus.8761:

The biggest thing that bothers me is guilds that are registered to gw2gvg.com, but only accept challenges from guilds they’re sure to beat. That’s just illogical, the challenge is the whole point of a GvG, I could not care less about the rating itself honestly. There is no fun in running over guilds that pose no resistance, I’d rather lose to a good guild.
Also, the rating system makes it so that if you lose to a guild with a much higher rating, you don’t lose that many points. This should be regulated by penalizing guilds that don’t accept challenges (for example, first challenge refused=nothing happens, starting from the next refusal to that same guild within a certain timeframe, the rating of the refusing guild starts to drop, and it does so exponentially for each refusal).

Just my 2 cents.

Prime Radese

This is a legitimate concern. Each Friday as the Match reset happens, we contact all guilds listed as available to organise the weeks GvG’s. The first response is generally “What guild are you from?”. Upon answering it’s a case of “No” for reasons such as “we don’t have enough players” or “key players are on holiday”.

It’s a kick in the teeth to see these guilds running with 30 odd in WvW and GvGing other guilds in the same week they’ve refused you. Starter guilds seem more eager to learn than mid/high table guys are willing to risk their precious points. (IMO these practice/non-official matches that go on are a joke)

Are we approaching a situation where the higher up you go on Gw2GvG the less likely you are to get matches?

LIGHTBULB!

Shouldnt be setting up fights…should just be having these fights in open field.

Groups/guilds are far more likely to run away in an instantaneous open field fight so they can get the upper-hand… which completely negates any level playing field which a structured GvG standard tries to implement.

Dude, when a fight is in open field, unless we were ever outnumbered 3-1….we didnt run. We took the loss and chalked it off as a numbers game. On that same note, when we had even fights…and were about to lose…we didnt run from a group that outplayed us. We ALSO took the loss. That’s an “old school” hardcore gamers mentality this game simply didnt encourage and or bring to the table.

You dont run if a guild group outplays your entire group.

saiyr.3071:

I am missing something. Why are practice matches a joke? Honestly GvG for me is all about practice and good fights. Ranking is pretty irrelevant on the website anyway because it is very frequently quite inaccurate. And it is hard for servers to prove themselves across tiers. Number three NA guild is from Eredon Terrace over Night Shift? Okay. Yes, it is nice to have some general idea of where guilds stand, but if people are taking it so seriously then maybe the lesser evil is to get rid of rankings and only track history. I am sure we will not reach consensus on that, though. This is a social problem and it will not be fixed by rules and regulations, in my opinion.

In Europe most practice matches are played out with the same numbers as a competitive match which means one of or both of the teams are trying to avoid potentially losing points. Both sides play their best and play to win, yet because they are unsure if they will win, the match is arranged as a “scrimm”.

We aren’t talking understrength guilds playing 14 vs 14 for a laugh or 16 vs 20 for the challenge, it’s full on 20vs20 without the penalties of a loss on Gw2GvG.

Vanz.5976:

saiyr.3071:

I am missing something. Why are practice matches a joke? Honestly GvG for me is all about practice and good fights. Ranking is pretty irrelevant on the website anyway because it is very frequently quite inaccurate. And it is hard for servers to prove themselves across tiers. Number three NA guild is from Eredon Terrace over Night Shift? Okay. Yes, it is nice to have some general idea of where guilds stand, but if people are taking it so seriously then maybe the lesser evil is to get rid of rankings and only track history. I am sure we will not reach consensus on that, though. This is a social problem and it will not be fixed by rules and regulations, in my opinion.

In Europe most practice matches are played out with the same numbers as a competitive match which means one of or both of the teams are trying to avoid potentially losing points. Both sides play their best and play to win, yet because they are unsure if they will win, the match is arranged as a “scrimm”.

We aren’t talking understrength guilds playing 14 vs 14 for a laugh or 16 vs 20 for the challenge, it’s full on 20vs20 without the penalties of a loss on Gw2GvG.

Is it not better to have a practice match than no match at all? Maybe part of this is also inspired by pretty high volatility in the rankings and relatively few matches to make up for it.

People need to be careful about adding too many rules to this stuff. The GvG scene is still very young, and newer guilds are less likely to get involved with older guilds if there’s too much silly entry barriers.

I understand that people want to be competitive about it, but adding too many niche rules will potentially scare people off.

Pinko.2076:

People need to be careful about adding too many rules to this stuff. The GvG scene is still very young, and newer guilds are less likely to get involved with older guilds if there’s too much silly entry barriers.

I understand that people want to be competitive about it, but adding too many niche rules will potentially scare people off.

Yeah, I was saying that in the previous thread. Though I still think all GvGs should begin with a ceremonial yakrifice. You know, for PPT.

Pinko.2076:

People need to be careful about adding too many rules to this stuff.

100% this.

There’s also a danger of this snowballing out of control. It starts off with banning warbanners & food, then its no veils, then no timewarps, and so on and so on.

Food can make or break a spec, if we want to encourage build diversity, and a diverse meta, food has to be included in that. Without food you’ll just find specs/gear that can afford to run without those stats (you’ll see much more PVT)

Jscull.2514:

LilMcGinley.3890:

Jscull.2514:

Vanz.5976:

tsubus.8761:

The biggest thing that bothers me is guilds that are registered to gw2gvg.com, but only accept challenges from guilds they’re sure to beat. That’s just illogical, the challenge is the whole point of a GvG, I could not care less about the rating itself honestly. There is no fun in running over guilds that pose no resistance, I’d rather lose to a good guild.
Also, the rating system makes it so that if you lose to a guild with a much higher rating, you don’t lose that many points. This should be regulated by penalizing guilds that don’t accept challenges (for example, first challenge refused=nothing happens, starting from the next refusal to that same guild within a certain timeframe, the rating of the refusing guild starts to drop, and it does so exponentially for each refusal).

Just my 2 cents.

Prime Radese

This is a legitimate concern. Each Friday as the Match reset happens, we contact all guilds listed as available to organise the weeks GvG’s. The first response is generally “What guild are you from?”. Upon answering it’s a case of “No” for reasons such as “we don’t have enough players” or “key players are on holiday”.

It’s a kick in the teeth to see these guilds running with 30 odd in WvW and GvGing other guilds in the same week they’ve refused you. Starter guilds seem more eager to learn than mid/high table guys are willing to risk their precious points. (IMO these practice/non-official matches that go on are a joke)

Are we approaching a situation where the higher up you go on Gw2GvG the less likely you are to get matches?

LIGHTBULB!

Shouldnt be setting up fights…should just be having these fights in open field.

Groups/guilds are far more likely to run away in an instantaneous open field fight so they can get the upper-hand… which completely negates any level playing field which a structured GvG standard tries to implement.

Dude, when a fight is in open field, unless we were ever outnumbered 3-1….we didnt run.

Never once did I mentioned you, paxa or any small 5 man guilds.. I put a generalization out there because more times than not, people run.

Wompage.4586:

Pinko.2076:

People need to be careful about adding too many rules to this stuff.

100% this.

There’s also a danger of this snowballing out of control. It starts off with banning warbanners & food, then its no veils, then no timewarps, and so on and so on.

Food can make or break a spec, if we want to encourage build diversity, and a diverse meta, food has to be included in that. Without food you’ll just find specs/gear that can afford to run without those stats (you’ll see much more PVT)

I agree with this, if your entire comp is countered by one food then there is something wrong with your comp and should immediately be revised or adjusted.

Do you think making a guild with at least 1 rep/leader of each guild, (organized by rank according to tier of the week) could help the guilds testing out the waters of GvG, and those seeking more matches? I know there’s guilds that do them, but aren’t even registered on the website, (maybe getting ranked against others can be an intimidating factor too).

So, if we could keep a roster of contacts at easy access, you could go “Hmm, these blobs are boring, wonder if there’s anyone wanting to do a GvG tonight”, check the roster to see who’s online, PM, and set a match right away. If both guilds are registered on gw2gvg, just send the score afterwards (or just keep it unofficial, w/e).

I know [Agg] was only the Unofficial kings of NA, but today we got aced in 7-0 to [EP].
We in Aggression are very excited by this along with our friends [NS]. Guilds in NA are rapidly progressing and it is really making happy to know that this is happening.

This GvG deserves it’s recognition, because a guild we didn’t think much of showed us what they are made of, we got shutdown hands down. I look forward to this being on GvG showdown, congratulations Everything Purple!

Oh my God????

Im speechless.. wth? I need more info on this

What happened? Any comment from EP as to setup, strat and overall hapenings?

woah

Wow.

Any video of this available?

From what I saw, they did to AGG what RE tried to do to TW in their 15v15.

Difference is TW adapted after round 3.

15s are a completely different beast than 20s.

What EP did to Agg have become very familiar in the mid tier in EU. Almost all guilds in the EU mid tiers that does GvG’s, run that type of setup as EP does, it’s very effective and a bit hard to counter, but all in all a good GvG between EP and Agg there.

PredatoR.5247:

I know [Agg] was only the Unofficial kings of NA, but today we got aced in 7-0 to [EP].
We in Aggression are very excited by this along with our friends [NS]. Guilds in NA are rapidly progressing and it is really making happy to know that this is happening.

This GvG deserves it’s recognition, because a guild we didn’t think much of showed us what they are made of, we got shutdown hands down. I look forward to this being on GvG showdown, congratulations Everything Purple!

Thank you for the opportunity Jericho. We’ve been waiting for our rematch since you stomped us 6-0 pre-gw2gvg.com. You were our first gvg and very much first real teachers.

@Ogre

we’re still setting up our 20v20 comp, right now we have a good idea of what we want to run. We want to prove the viability of unorthodox class choices in gvg compensated by build/playstyles. A lot of thief hate and I think that maybe 15v15 allows more of the trolly class comps. As we clean our guild/train more we are moving into the 20v20 scene as well and figuring out original comps to run for that so that we can challenge 20v20 preferred guilds on that scale as well.

Even after tonight’s event, we will always keep in mind what it was like when we first started running around together. We will never forget where we came from and how far we have come.

also a very special thanks to NS and qT for the open field fights this/last week, without that opportunity to analyze ourselves things here may have happened differently.
Another thanks to the Mag guilds VR/DERP/PYRO for the fights these past weeks as well for the same reason.

Im watching TW vs RE and i cant beleive i overlooked this.. im a disgrace as host.. rly.. I remember reporting this with just a score to work with, but didnt go back on it huge mistake!! Incredibly high quality, half the match so far and im seeing the best counter thief ive seen so far in NA, amongst other interesting stuff… wow

Still not completely sure on the whole battle plan, but seems to involve the use of counter periphery. The actual Agg vs EP or a full explanation would be awesome tho o/

EDIT- Thank you very much Odinzu

Ogre.1750:

Oh my God????

Im speechless.. wth? I need more info on this

What happened? Any comment from EP as to setup, strat and overall hapenings?

woah

Underestimated, we had 3 ele’s online max, but even when putting them all on staff, the dual thief focus on them was too much, our casters got bursted down.
Second round we went in a little harder, but the thief pressure was too much. Now that we think back, there was a solution to the thief problem but it did not come to mind. And no, [EP] did not do what [RE] did to TW. Every round as soon as our casters were down, it was pretty much downhill, no matter how long we wanted to take the fight.

I could honestly say, our casters never had a thief like that put pressure and respect to [EP] for doing so. [EP]‘s melee train wasn’t a joke either, no matter how much damage we put on it, it outsustained our damage, especially since our casters were struggling staying alive. We tried 2 counter thiefs but it didnt help much.

In short, [EP]s thief pretty much scared our casters, the damage from casters wasn’t there anymore and they were still dying. No waterfields, so regroups, 13 other people putting pressure on myself (melee train). Aggression was countered.

Ogre.1750:

Im watching TW vs RE and i cant beleive i overlooked this.. im a disgrace as host.. rly.. I remember reporting this with just a score to work with, but didnt go back on it huge mistake!! Incredibly high quality, half the match so far and im seeing the best counter thief ive seen so far in NA, amongst other interesting stuff… wow

Still not completely sure on the whole battle plan, but seems to involve the use of counter periphery. The actual Agg vs EP or a full explanation would be awesome tho o/

EDIT- Thank you very much Odinzu

Well… to be honest it comes from playing starcraft. If you let the other player use caster units on your backbone army, you certainly let him control the engagement.

The casters are the nervous system to the frontline body. So we aimed to shut down the nervous system so the frontline would be on a clock. Gotta kill those infestors man. Probably not as easy in 20v20 but we’ll figure it out.

But I am very proud of my little scumbag thieves, they begged me for the chance to do this. Everyone else did 100% their job as well. That 2nd fight was the best we’ve ever had.

PredatoR.5247:

Ogre.1750:

Oh my God????

Im speechless.. wth? I need more info on this

What happened? Any comment from EP as to setup, strat and overall hapenings?

woah

Underestimated, we had 3 ele’s online max, but even when putting them all on staff, the dual thief focus on them was too much, our casters got bursted down.
Second round we went in a little harder, but the thief pressure was too much. Now that we think back, there was a solution to the thief problem but it did not come to mind. And no, [EP] did not do what [RE] did to TW. Every round as soon as our casters were down, it was pretty much downhill, no matter how long we wanted to take the fight.

I could honestly say, our casters never had a thief like that put pressure and respect to [EP] for doing so. [EP]‘s melee train wasn’t a joke either, no matter how much damage we put on it, it outsustained our damage, especially since our casters were struggling staying alive. We tried 2 counter thiefs but it didnt help much.

In short, [EP]s thief pretty much scared our casters, the damage from casters wasn’t there anymore and they were still dying. No waterfields, so regroups, 13 other people putting pressure on myself (melee train). Aggression was countered.

Both those groups appear to be running the exact same strat and setup. While I did not participate in either, just go watch both those guild’s fights.

It’s the exact same thing that happened to both, the thieves were wrecking the backlines.

Like I said, the difference is TW adapted(watch the video), AGG’s backline kept getting wrecked over and over.

Jahn.7019:

PredatoR.5247:

Ogre.1750:

Oh my God????

Im speechless.. wth? I need more info on this

What happened? Any comment from EP as to setup, strat and overall hapenings?

woah

Underestimated, we had 3 ele’s online max, but even when putting them all on staff, the dual thief focus on them was too much, our casters got bursted down.
Second round we went in a little harder, but the thief pressure was too much. Now that we think back, there was a solution to the thief problem but it did not come to mind. And no, [EP] did not do what [RE] did to TW. Every round as soon as our casters were down, it was pretty much downhill, no matter how long we wanted to take the fight.

I could honestly say, our casters never had a thief like that put pressure and respect to [EP] for doing so. [EP]‘s melee train wasn’t a joke either, no matter how much damage we put on it, it outsustained our damage, especially since our casters were struggling staying alive. We tried 2 counter thiefs but it didnt help much.

In short, [EP]s thief pretty much scared our casters, the damage from casters wasn’t there anymore and they were still dying. No waterfields, so regroups, 13 other people putting pressure on myself (melee train). Aggression was countered.

Both those groups appear to be running the exact same strat and setup. While I did not participate in either, just go watch both those guild’s fights.

It’s the exact same thing that happened to both, the thieves were wrecking the backlines.

Like I said, the difference is TW adapted(watch the video), AGG’s backline kept getting wrecked over and over.

I’ll check it out, we do have a fight vs [RE] soon

I was going to say the new 15s meta seems thief assist train, but the person who posted above says EU has been doing this for a while.

Guess NA is late to the party as always.

That was a beutiful explanation Odinzu, thank you very much. As a SC veteran I can apreciate 20 shouldnt be much of a leap.. y 33% more, doable. It might be tricky to get a good proportion, specially since teams can adapt. Bench power is going to be a factor as the meta evolves. Holy ghost im hyped

Great fights [EP] It’s amazing to see how far you guys have come since we last fought. My Necros and I are looking forward to our next engagement.

Well deserved and an excellent group of guys and gals.
Congrats!

Jahn.7019:

I was going to say the new 15s meta seems thief assist train, but the person who posted above says EU has been doing this for a while.

Guess NA is late to the party as always.

Actually that does look similar, I apologize for saying otherwise.
This is interesting

PredatoR.5247:

Jahn.7019:

I was going to say the new 15s meta seems thief assist train, but the person who posted above says EU has been doing this for a while.

Guess NA is late to the party as always.

Actually that does look similar, I apologize for saying otherwise.
This is interesting

No worries, I’m just a fan of the gvg scene, so I enjoy analyzing the fights as well.