Guild Wars 2

This is not normal… more than 53 thousand globs for the same price. Who is doing this and why? Maybe ANET so the price doesn’t goes higher?

That’s impressive. If indeed it’s one player he/she paid nearly 1k gold just in listing fees.

It was actually 92,500 ectos when I checked a few days ago. Pretty big price wall. But I guess it’ll take a week to dig through.

People are farming LA right now more so than doing metaevents, so the ecto supply pool is slowly getting drained.

Check t6 totems and you will see the same. This is a large scale price speculation/manipulation!

The guy stacked up the ectos/totem/whatever else, for months.

Maybe you remember the thread about the totems or my thread about the ectos.
Both threads where pointing out, that there is a HUGE increase in suppy… more then ever before. And everyone was just saying: Jeah it’s because of xy. And i THINK (i dont know) that this is a large scale price manipulation.
To know this, we need to find the guy, or we need an official statement.

dbgfeller.8120:

Yea but still, players undercut all the time…

In this case they should! Make sure those 53k never sell.

Looks like manipulation to me. Wouldn’t put it past certain entities to do it either.

I saw the totems too. Both this and the totems were manipulation. Been going on for a long while. Still legit though. Nothing you can do about it. Only Anet can. They can manipulate the manipulators by adapting their content. Anet intervenes all the time though, which is why I don’t worry as much.

I dont know why people make a fuss about it. If somebody would have bought a stack of ectos 4 weeks ago for under 30s and now sold it for 37s, nobody would care.
Now somebody might have bought 100k ectos at under 30s and now sells it for 37s and everybody screams market manipulation.
And even if it was only one player posting all these ectos, he would have thousands accomplices who assisted him in this “manipulation”, as they sold them to him a month ago, so its a mere speculation on his part. All these players could have been holding on to their ectos for another month and sell at 37s but they chose not to.

So whats the big deal here? I fail to see how this affects your game experience.

It would only be worth noting, if a player got these ectos by exploitative means, then this would be the wrong forum to report it.

It was probably wanze.

dietzero.3514:

It was probably wanze.

I am selling at 36.99s.

I always think that its simply many people selling at that price, because its a nice round number :p

What someone please explain how this is ‘manipulation’.

Because the word has an actual meaning. You shouldn’t just be shouting it whenever you feel that something is ‘wrong’.

Feels like this forum is under it’s own version of the ‘red scare’ sometimes. Burn the 1%.

Market manipulation wars 2. Nothing else would be the right name for this abomination of a trading post.

Wait, so is this a good time to sell ectos if you’re sitting on a nice amount?

I’ve been out of the loop for a while, so I don’t know what normal prices are anymore.

Where’s the manipulation?

Ectos are easy to obtain, and a large sell listing isn’t stopping anyone else from undercutting them. This is a high volume market, and will resist any attempt by traders to unbalance the equilibrium.

Guy at 37.02 might wana relist.

Well TP is a free market system.

Wanze.8410:

dietzero.3514:

It was probably wanze.

I am selling at 36.99s.

You need more transactions.

Wanze.8410:

dietzero.3514:

It was probably wanze.

I am selling at 36.99s.

27000 listings? (different items per page). Seems like price manipulation is also your cup of tea (call it reselling if you want a cleaner word for it). Nobody can ever have 27000 listings from farming alone. You need to buy stuff at TP to do so.

this are no listings – its Items SOLD

im on 255.474

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

Wanze.8410:

dietzero.3514:

It was probably wanze.

I am selling at 36.99s.

27000 listings? (different items per page). Seems like price manipulation is also your cup of tea (call it reselling if you want a cleaner word for it). Nobody can ever have 27000 listings from farming alone. You need to buy stuff at TP to do so.

Uhhh kitten ?

Those are not listings. Those are items sold. Those go far back as release. Anyone who has played since release has thousands of items sold.

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

27000 listings? (different items per page). Seems like price manipulation is also your cup of tea (call it reselling if you want a cleaner word for it). Nobody can ever have 27000 listings from farming alone. You need to buy stuff at TP to do so.

And that’s a bad thing? This attitude is as priceless as the “stacking / skipping / berserker dps is an exploit” mentality in the dungeons forum, and equally as toxic. Guy makes money on the TP and he’s guilty of the ever-dreaded market manipulation (oh noez)? What? No, as a matter of fact, he’s just a speculator, and if it bothers you, it’s probably got a lot more to do with jealousy on your own part than anything else.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

27000 listings? (different items per page). Seems like price manipulation is also your cup of tea (call it reselling if you want a cleaner word for it). Nobody can ever have 27000 listings from farming alone. You need to buy stuff at TP to do so.

And that’s a bad thing? This attitude is as priceless as the “stacking / skipping / berserker dps is an exploit” mentality in the dungeons forum, and equally as toxic. Guy makes money on the TP and he’s guilty of the ever-dreaded market manipulation (oh noez)? What? No, as a matter of fact, he’s just a speculator, and if it bothers you, it’s probably got a lot more to do with jealousy on your own part than anything else.

It’s a bad thing in that it creates massive disparities. For the economy in this game to work drops have to be altered, which tbh has a negative effect on most normal players. The 2 fold issue with regulated drops and creating disparities will most likely be lost on those who gain interest with the current system. Word such as “handouts, free, jealous, even communistic” are commonplace amongst extreme sides.

The only really viable reason for such things to exist is to act as a gold sink. More creative tools for curbing inflation would have a much more positive effect on the game as a whole than what we currently have. Unfortunately those with the ability to alter things seem to care less about the numero uno philosophy in gaming………“fun”.

Do you guys know the difference between “Item’s I’m Selling” and “Item’s I’ve Sold”?

Essence Snow.3194:

It’s a bad thing in that it creates massive disparities. For the economy in this game to work drops have to be altered, which tbh has a negative effect on most normal players. The 2 fold issue with regulated drops and creating disparities will most likely be lost on those who gain interest with the current system. Word such as “handouts, free, jealous, even communistic” are commonplace amongst extreme sides.

The only really viable reason for such things to exist is to act as a gold sink. More creative tools for curbing inflation would have a much more positive effect on the game as a whole than what we currently have. Unfortunately those with the ability to alter things seem to care less about the numero uno philosophy in gaming………“fun”.

It’s never a bad thing. Markets like ectos are too high volume to be effectively manipulated, and even 53000 ectos as a buywall will be eaten through if the demand is high enough. Like you said, it’s also never a bad thing because every listing and sale on the TP is acting as a gold sink. Traders are doing the game good. If people are moving items in high volumes, they’re doing even more work for the good of the game. Just because some people can capitalize on the market and make money from it is nothing to be worried about, and certainly nothing to attack players over.

Some people play the game for the economy, and to them that is fun. Who are you or I to say whether that is a viable way to enjoy the game or not?

Like I noted the concept will be lost on some.

Actually its transaction done not items sold. If you sell a stack of 250 in one go to one buyer it counts as 1 transaction.

Wanze.8410:

dietzero.3514:

It was probably wanze.

I am selling at 36.99s.

why did you sell your molten firestorm mini for so little /shame?

Malediktus.9250:

Actually its transaction done not items sold. If you sell a stack of 250 in one go to one buyer it counts as 1 transaction.

Exactly. One stack of an item that i post, could also result in 250 transactions, if they sell 1 at a time.

Infamous Darkness.3284:

Wanze.8410:

dietzero.3514:

It was probably wanze.

I am selling at 36.99s.

why did you sell your molten firestorm mini for so little /shame?

Because its reintroduced on the loot table of the ultimate citizens bag.
The lowest listing is at 114g now, so I guess i made the right choice.

Vol.7601:

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

Wanze.8410:

dietzero.3514:

It was probably wanze.

I am selling at 36.99s.

27000 listings? (different items per page). Seems like price manipulation is also your cup of tea (call it reselling if you want a cleaner word for it). Nobody can ever have 27000 listings from farming alone. You need to buy stuff at TP to do so.

Uhhh kitten ?

Those are not listings. Those are items sold. Those go far back as release. Anyone who has played since release has thousands of items sold.

Glad you said it Vol. Phoebe, please don’t question Wanze, mtpelion, bellagh, Vol or a ton of other players based on nothing. They provide sound, solid advice and always answer, you’re barking not only up the wrong tree but you aren’t even in the same forest.

Wanze.8410:

Infamous Darkness.3284:

Wanze.8410:

dietzero.3514:

It was probably wanze.

I am selling at 36.99s.

why did you sell your molten firestorm mini for so little /shame?

Because its reintroduced on the loot table of the ultimate citizens bag.
The lowest listing is at 114g now, so I guess i made the right choice.

eww I didn’t realize this hopefully the original southsun minis aren’t included in that loot table I still have a set to sell…ty for the info

Infamous Darkness.3284:

Wanze.8410:

Infamous Darkness.3284:

Wanze.8410:

dietzero.3514:

It was probably wanze.

I am selling at 36.99s.

why did you sell your molten firestorm mini for so little /shame?

Because its reintroduced on the loot table of the ultimate citizens bag.
The lowest listing is at 114g now, so I guess i made the right choice.

eww I didn’t realize this hopefully the original southsun minis aren’t included in that loot table I still have a set to sell…ty for the info

Just the Mini Toxic Hybrid.

Infamous Darkness.3284:

eww I didn’t realize this hopefully the original southsun minis aren’t included in that loot table I still have a set to sell…ty for the info

I hope they are! I’ve wanted a bloody mini reef drake since the beginning of time, but when they were cheap I was too poor and now that I have the money they just aren’t worth what they cost to me.

Holy quaggans, really?? O.o If that’s what it’s like for Ectos, I’m hesitant to imagine the velocity of markets like Iron Ore or Silk Scraps, in that case.

But posters will see 53,000 and choose to post under it’s price for a quicker sale. Psychologically it still acts as a wall that you would want to post beneath it. As long as enough players are posting under it, even at the velocity JS is talking about, it may take a bit longer to wear that wall down than a few hours.

Zaxares.5419:

Holy quaggans, really?? O.o If that’s what it’s like for Ectos, I’m hesitant to imagine the velocity of markets like Iron Ore or Silk Scraps, in that case.

I put in some buy orders for gold and silver ore the other day with at least 25k orders ahead of me and had them filled within the hour. Love the common market.

Bunda.2691:

Zaxares.5419:

Holy quaggans, really?? O.o If that’s what it’s like for Ectos, I’m hesitant to imagine the velocity of markets like Iron Ore or Silk Scraps, in that case.

I put in some buy orders for gold and silver ore the other day with at least 25k orders ahead of me and had them filled within the hour. Love the common market.

Thats why flippers or speculators arent really responsible for price spikes of common mats but supply and demand of the general player base.

It all goes back to the game needing to provide better tools to the casual player. The one most important number in the game is not provided on the Trading Post. What is the Average price that items have actually SOLD for over a given period of time? Ideally this figure would be shown next to every sale on a daily, weekly, and monthly basis. If we knew that Ectos have sold for an average of 35.2 Silver today, and 35.1 Silver for the past week, then it wouldn’t matter whether the current batch is priced at 30 or 40, players would know that if they priced theirs at around 35.15 they would probably do all right, and if they priced it slightly lower it’d be almost certain to move.

Could this be a developer intervention to set up an artificial ceiling for Ecto prices? I cannot visualize a single player posting that many.

Patch brought important economical changes, roughly equalizing leather to cloth price disbalance, adding value to some ores and the sprockets etc., but I’m guessing that inflating Ectos up to 10 silver (30→nearly 40) apiece was not part of the intention

Offtopic: my prediction is that Gift of Wine will definitely include Elonian wine (obvious gold sink) and not Grapes (which has been very speculated upon lately) – because the latter is not a system-forming resource and as such does not require artificial intervention from developers.

iFruit.6190:

Could this be a developer intervention to set up an artificial ceiling for Ecto prices? I cannot visualize a single player posting that many.

Patch brought important economical changes, roughly equalizing leather to cloth price disbalance, adding value to some ores and the sprockets etc., but I’m guessing that inflating Ectos up to 10 silver (30->nearly 40) apiece was not part of the intention

Offtopic: my prediction is that Gift of Wine will definitely include Elonian wine (obvious gold sink) and not Grapes (which has been very speculated upon lately) – because the latter is not a system-forming resource and as such does not require artificial intervention from developers.

Just because you cant visualize something, doesnt mean that Anet is manipulating the market by adding supply. Your visualisation skills seem to be a bit off anyways, as the ecto price just rose from 32-37s, not from 30-40s, during this patch.

The person who listed 53,000 ecto did not farm them, obviously.

But they certainly did buy them. They bought them from up to 53,000 players, who did not want the ectos but instead wanted gold.

They went to the TP and got exactly what they wanted.

Were this trader not there each of these 53,000 people would have received less money for their drops. They benifitted from this trader.

And so the trader relisted the items well above the trading price, in order to recoup the fees charged. And then some more as profit.

Now 53,000 people who want ectos can come to him, and pay less than they would have otherwise.

All 53,000 buyers, and 53,000 sellers getting more and paying less just because of the actions of this one person.

There are two sides to every transaction. No one can force you to buy or sell to them. Everyone benefits.

Actually it was more like 80k+ ectos when I checked, that was insane.

Yeah they were at 92K when I checked last week, I’m unsure of when he started dumping.

But I told everyone that ecto price was largely depressed at 29s or so. Unfortunately, the rise back to this point took so long that investing in ectos would be a slow return.

If you wanted to hold ectos for legendaries next month, the 29s price was the best time.

Again the prices we see right now are based on the supply side. A considerably high % of people were skipping metaevents due to the LA invasion (which is less rewarding gold-wise) so there were less ectos being dumped in the market.

It’s been confirmed that the LA event will be leaving on March 4th, but it’s pretty hard to gauge where the ecto price will go after this.

The March 4 patch could introduce yet another place to occupy our time, plus speculators may keep the ecto price sustained due to Crystalline Ore.

Risingashes.8694:

There are two sides to every transaction. No one can force you to buy or sell to them. Everyone benefits.

Everyone involved in that particular transaction yes, but not everyone else that that or those transaction/s effect. Each transaction within a market effects that particular market and to an extent other markets as well. There’s a lot more being effected by trading than just the two sides in a particular or series transaction/s.

Vol.7601:

The March 4 patch could introduce yet another place to occupy our time, plus speculators may keep the ecto price sustained due to Crystalline Ore.

Another segue but could we be seeing a rune evolution or at least a start in that direction for March 4? Is that the other “place” you are referring to? Or JC500?

Cassocaster.4576:

Vol.7601:

The March 4 patch could introduce yet another place to occupy our time, plus speculators may keep the ecto price sustained due to Crystalline Ore.

Another segue but could we be seeing a rune evolution or at least a start in that direction for March 4? Is that the other “place” you are referring to? Or JC500?

March 4th will be the Battle for Lions arch, the last LS update. Runes/sigils will be reworked for the feature content patch that will follow after a short break, propably also JC500 and ccoking.