Guild Wars 2

Will add my $0.02 for the drop rate.
40 chests open so far – zero tickets
1 – baby charr backpack

Approx 100 chest no ticket, 2 char backpacks

NEEK.1057:

haha listen to these sad kids… ive opened about 15 and got one

been playing for about 2 weeks

wow your leet …

I got a ticket from one chest. Opened about 20 more using keys from story/map completion and the only noticable drops were name contract and 1g. Wish I could trade the contract for another ticket lol.

This is really silly and leaving a bad taste in my mouth. Why can’t the skins be for purchase in the gem store also? That’s what irks me. I would pay a higher price for the knowing I would get it than having to gamble.. and I spent 80gold on key plus 20 dollars and got zero tickets.. i mean RNG needs to have some fail safe in there…

It’s just really disappointing is all, especially since it’s just a skin, it’s not like it’s a legendary. But when some people will just simply never get it… that’s really lame.

That’s my two cents anyway.

“Hey ANet, would you consider selling the Fused weapon tickets in the store for 4500 gems?”

Why can’t the skins be for purchase in the gem store also? That’s what irks me. I would pay a higher price for the knowing I would get it than having to gamble.

Arenanet makes far, far more money exploiting peoples’ gambling tendencies than they would from the few people who would buy a skin outright.

Stormclaw.5031:

“Hey ANet, would you consider selling the Fused weapon tickets in the store for 4500 gems?”

Why can’t the skins be for purchase in the gem store also? That’s what irks me. I would pay a higher price for the knowing I would get it than having to gamble.

Arenanet makes far, far more money exploiting peoples’ gambling tendencies than they would from the few people who would buy a skin outright.

That’s just the thing though. If ArenaNet offered the skins for 4500 Gems, some people would buy them because they feel the RNG will never be in their favor, while some people will still gamble because they feel they can get the skin without spending 4500 Gems….and still others will complain because even though they’re getting what they want (purchasable in the Gem Store) they feel the price is still too high.

No matter what they do, people will complain…it’s just human nature.

@Charismatic Harm

You are right, people will complain. But they should sell the skins for a fixed price on the TP. It can’t be, that players spend money for hundreds of keys and don’t get a skin.

My thoughts.

aelfric.8536:

@Charismatic Harm

You are right, people will complain. But they should sell the skins for a fixed price on the TP. It can’t be, that players spend money for hundreds of keys and don’t get a skin.

I’m confused as to why folks have a problem with items being rare. Would you feel the same if the skins had a super small chance of dropping from a particular boss chest? How is getting together the gold to get keys to open chests different from waiting for dragon timers to get a chance to open a chest? I think the chests are in a way a bit nicer because you can get a bunch of keys together and open them right after another without having to spend time killing mobs to get to the chest.

I’m curious as to why folks feel differently about BLC drops versus boss chest drops. Is it because the stuff that comes out of the BL chests can’t be turned into gold (or back into gems)?

I don’t have problems with rare items. But rare items should drop from boss chests or something “epic”. And not “farm gold to buy keys to open chests and then there may be a skin.”

My opinion.

aelfric.8536:

I don’t have problems with rare items. But rare items should drop from boss chests or something “epic”. And not “farm gold to buy keys to open chests and then there may be a skin.”

My opinion.

Yeah but I’m curious as to why it’s different in your mind. What’s the difference between a rare “soulbound on acquire” drop from a boss chest and a drop from a BLC? Folks can run a boss chest 1000x and not get the drop they’re looking for and don’t get particularly angry about their lack of luck. Unless of course the drop they’re looking for happens to be a rare component to make something really rare. Which is also odd in my opinion.

This method makes them even more rare, actually. A rare drop from a boss chest will still drop for more people and be able to be sold on the TP. I don’t know of any soul bound items that drop from boss chest (unless you include ones with runes only available for dungeon tokens, like monk runes). Not everyone can buy keys (or wants to), but everyone can farm boss chests, freely. The playing the game part is the difference really versus sticking coins in a slot for the big prize. I’d personally rather play the game.

munkiman.3068:

I don’t know of any soul bound items that drop from boss chest (unless you include ones with runes only available for dungeon tokens, like monk runes).

Well I tossed that in there because you can’t sell the contents that you get from a BL chest, which might be part of the reason folks are upset. You can’t directly compare opening a boss chest to a BLC simply because everything that comes out of the BLC is account bound.

munkiman.3068:

Not everyone can buy keys (or wants to), but everyone can farm boss chests, freely. The playing the game part is the difference really versus sticking coins in a slot for the big prize. I’d personally rather play the game.

Edit – Oh duh, I totally missed your point about boss farming not costing anything. It costs something potentially in repair costs and way points and such, but there is no need to purchase a ticket to participate. That’s a good point.

Everyone can buy keys with in game gold, and sometimes get them dropped. I think that most folks have purchased items from the TP, so I just don’t get how that’s counted as OK from a “playing the game” perspective, but buying a key to open a chest with the gold you earned by playing the game doesn’t count as OK. Not many folks complain when they buy 50 moldy bags and don’t get a single (fill in rare crafting material) that they wanted dropped. Plenty of folks have lost a lot of gold on moldy bags while some folks have been luckier, but it’s not perceived as a problem.

I’m one of the folks that doesn’t buy keys, although I don’t have any particular bad feelings about them. I just think my gold is better spent on other things. I do use every one I get dropped though and got a nice chunk of influence for our personal guild, a total makeover kit (which my husband wanted, but I didn’t particularly want), revive orbs, money bags, more keys, and many other useful things. A lot of junk too which is a bummer because the only option is to destroy it.

I guess all of my BLC openings have been pleasant because I wasn’t looking for something in particular. Which circles back around to my original question of why it’s so much more painful to open a BL chest and not get what you want than it is to open a boss chest and not get what you want. Thinking about it as I’m typing all of this out leads me to feel more strongly that it has to do with everything from the chest being account bound and unable to be coverted into something more useful.

Because rarely do people farm bosses with an specific goal in mind.

When I farm X boss, I’m not doing it with the goal of obtaining Y skin. I just want loot. Any generic loot keeps me happy, because I’m more concerned about obtaining overall wealth, instead of a specific item.

BLT chests are aggravating because you want to get something very specific. And you are forced to go with the RNG option to obtain it, not even through the less-RNG method of TP (Like Halloween/Lost Shores/Wintersday. WTF ANET?)

It’s stupid. But I don’t blame them, because there’s a ton of anecdotal evidence in this forum alone that people are paying for it.

Ursan.7846:

It’s stupid. But I don’t blame them, because there’s a ton of anecdotal evidence in this forum alone that people are paying for it.

It’s greed versus respect. IMO. I like my companies to feel like they, I dunno, maybe shouldn’t take advantage of their customers.

I’m not going to quit, and I’m not going to buy RNG stuff. I’m just sayin’.

Ursan.7846:

Because rarely do people farm bosses with an specific goal in mind.

When I farm X boss, I’m not doing it with the goal of obtaining Y skin. I just want loot. Any generic loot keeps me happy, because I’m more concerned about obtaining overall wealth, instead of a specific item.

BLT chests are aggravating because you want to get something very specific. And you are forced to go with the RNG option to obtain it, not even through the less-RNG method of TP (Like Halloween/Lost Shores/Wintersday. WTF ANET?)

It’s stupid. But I don’t blame them, because there’s a ton of anecdotal evidence in this forum alone that people are paying for it.

Yeah that is another good point really. I don’t know anyone with any expectations when it comes to boss chests, sure it be nice to get a pre, but the bottom line is i’m doing it to earn G toward getting the stuff i want down the road.

I have spent a lot on keys, but i’m using every single item i get (beyond a few boosters). When i hit a dungeon i’m boosted, well fed and potioned up, mine as well since i spent so much to get em. There is (or was) a chance to get a perma banker and a couple other items that aren’t account bound out of those chests too. A perma banker is worth a pretty penny on the TP.

Ursan.7846:

Because rarely do people farm bosses with an specific goal in mind.

-stares at Final Rest-
-checks Shadow Behemoth timer-
-looks at Ursan-
-stares at Final Rest somemore-

You sure about that?

I farmed the Svanir Shaman for a couple “Eternal Ice” accessoies because the fit a theme for one of my alts, but honestly that didn’t take very long.

I think that equivalance could be achieved if ANet sold the fusion weapon tickets for 4000 gems or so. Maybe 5000.

I’m honestly a little put out they don’t have a precurssor-like terrible drop chance from killing Molten Alliance critters… or maybe they do and no one has ever actually had it happen yet :p.

Nike.2631:

-stares at Final Rest-
-checks Shadow Behemoth timer-
-looks at Ursan-
-stares at Final Rest somemore-

You sure about that?

Apparently the nuance between “rarely” and “never” escapes you.

Or maybe the nuance “your behaviors are not automatically reflected into the larger populace” escapes you. Could go either way on that one.

Well I think though that even if you are farming for something specific, the boss chest at least drops things you can turn into gold that you could use to purchase Final Rest if enough of your runs didn’t turn it up. There aren’t many bind on acquire drops that are pure RNG that are highly desirable other than items from BLCs (I can’t think of any, but there’s probably one). Also I wonder if being able to boost your MF to give you a better chance makes it more palatable.

Nike.2631:

Or maybe the nuance “your behaviors are not automatically reflected into the larger populace” escapes you. Could go either way on that one.

Do you understand why people rarely farm SB SPECIFICALLY for Final Rest?

Because there’s another option of obtaining it: through the TP. It is much more efficient to farm the gold and buy it outright from the TP than doing the Behemoth once a day for god knows how long. And because of the huge difference in efficiency, it’s pretty safe to assume people don’t see SB RNG as the sole method of obtaining Final Rest.

Ursan.7846:

Nike.2631:

Or maybe the nuance “your behaviors are not automatically reflected into the larger populace” escapes you. Could go either way on that one.

Do you know understand why people rarely farm SB SPECIFICALLY for Final Rest?

Because there’s another option of obtaining it: through the TP. It is much more efficient to farm the gold and buy it outright from the TP than doing the Behemoth once a day for god knows how long. And because of the huge difference in efficiency, it’s pretty safe to assume people don’t see SB RNG as the sole method of obtaining Final Rest.

Yup, the final rest thing was an anomaly for sure, since i can pretty much guarantee between the event being bugged and the drop chance being close to zero, it actually became that weapon of legend. Sure some people farm boss chests for specific items, but overall i would venture to guess it makes sense to do these bosses for the G over what it actually takes to get them as loot.

@Pan MF only affects drops off monsters, chest loot is just whatever the chance is.

munkiman.3068:

@Pan MF only affects drops off monsters, chest loot is just whatever the chance is.

Oh yeah, thanks for pointing that out. I started mixing up chest farming with boss farming. Most of my farming was D2 Mephisto/Baal runs… It’s weird that I don’t really have much desire to farm bosses in GW2 or do the same dungeon path over and over. I’m much less focused on one particular thing. I blame ANet for letting me get stuff just by wandering around aimlessly.

I’m also a weirdo that likes a lot of the cheaper/more common skins better than the super rare ones.

Pandemoniac.4739:

munkiman.3068:

I don’t know of any soul bound items that drop from boss chest (unless you include ones with runes only available for dungeon tokens, like monk runes).

Well I tossed that in there because you can’t sell the contents that you get from a BL chest, which might be part of the reason folks are upset. You can’t directly compare opening a boss chest to a BLC simply because everything that comes out of the BLC is account bound.

munkiman.3068:

Not everyone can buy keys (or wants to), but everyone can farm boss chests, freely. The playing the game part is the difference really versus sticking coins in a slot for the big prize. I’d personally rather play the game.

Edit – Oh duh, I totally missed your point about boss farming not costing anything. It costs something potentially in repair costs and way points and such, but there is no need to purchase a ticket to participate. That’s a good point.

Everyone can buy keys with in game gold, and sometimes get them dropped. I think that most folks have purchased items from the TP, so I just don’t get how that’s counted as OK from a “playing the game” perspective, but buying a key to open a chest with the gold you earned by playing the game doesn’t count as OK. Not many folks complain when they buy 50 moldy bags and don’t get a single (fill in rare crafting material) that they wanted dropped. Plenty of folks have lost a lot of gold on moldy bags while some folks have been luckier, but it’s not perceived as a problem.

I’m one of the folks that doesn’t buy keys, although I don’t have any particular bad feelings about them. I just think my gold is better spent on other things. I do use every one I get dropped though and got a nice chunk of influence for our personal guild, a total makeover kit (which my husband wanted, but I didn’t particularly want), revive orbs, money bags, more keys, and many other useful things. A lot of junk too which is a bummer because the only option is to destroy it.

I guess all of my BLC openings have been pleasant because I wasn’t looking for something in particular. Which circles back around to my original question of why it’s so much more painful to open a BL chest and not get what you want than it is to open a boss chest and not get what you want. Thinking about it as I’m typing all of this out leads me to feel more strongly that it has to do with everything from the chest being account bound and unable to be coverted into something more useful.

As to why it’s more painful to open up a box than kill a boss and not get the item you want. I’m going to say that’s its because the type of effort is different and valued differently. Killing a boss and getting loot is part of the game. Sometimes the loot is so so and sometimes it’s spectacular. But it’s still part of the game. Opening the boxes takes money. And that feels like real life. People value money, sometimes very deeply. The emotions concerning it can be very strong. So when you have a feature in game that people feel like is cheating them out of their money, then a lot of emotions come out.

LowestTruth.2635:

Ursan.7846:

It’s stupid. But I don’t blame them, because there’s a ton of anecdotal evidence in this forum alone that people are paying for it.

It’s greed versus respect. IMO. I like my companies to feel like they, I dunno, maybe shouldn’t take advantage of their customers.

I’m not going to quit, and I’m not going to buy RNG stuff. I’m just sayin’.

You’re making the (incredibly inaccurate) assumption that no one derives again enjoyment from opening chests. While D3 references aren’t exactly well received around here after the last attempt, they understood that there’s really something to be gained by that mystery. Their announcement of it:

Jay Wilson”

Scrolls of Identification are no longer in the game. Unidentified items and the act of identifying them is still very much part of the game, but now when obtaining an unidentified item you’ll simply right click it, a short cast timer will occur as your character examines the item, and it will become identified. We love the double-discovery of finding a present and then unwrapping it, but we don’t think it requires a physical item you have to find and keep in your bags to get the same effect. From now on you’ll just be able to inherently identify all your items, no need to carry scrolls.

Link

There’s plenty of people who disagree with that design decision, but I have to say I’m 100% on board with it. There really is something there with that sort of system. The Black Lion chest (and any other RNG “bag” in the game, or the mystic forge) shares in that same vein. There is value derived from opening chests, in excess of the actual “accounting value” of the items contained inside. It’s way more exciting to open a chest and have a great item pop out than it is to click through a few menus to buy an item for a fixed price.

A lot of people find that the cost of RNG in the chests outweighs that value, and that’s their prerogative. But look at the posts from people in the thread who have gotten their tickets, especially those who did it in a relatively low number of attempts. It’s pretty clear they derived a pretty serious amount of enjoyment from the chests. You can’t say that having chests is “disrespectful” to players just because you don’t personally like them. You wouldn’t say that grocery stores are disrespecting their customers out of greed by selling pork products (or any other food/drink/item that some group disapproves of) would you?

Astral Projections.7320:

Opening the boxes takes money. And that feels like real life. People value money, sometimes very deeply. The emotions concerning it can be very strong. So when you have a feature in game that people feel like is cheating them out of their money, then a lot of emotions come out.

Well, I think it’s strange to feel cheated – it’s not like you opened the chest and got nothing. The point about it costing gold to be able to open the chest I think gets to the heart of the problem though. I agree with folks that only being able to get a skin through a BLC is not a great idea. It would be better if there was a chance to get them through other means in addition to the chests, like participating in the Living Story stuff.

Not only is it a rare drop, but you’re also completely at the mercy of the gold->gem conversion. The more people that want it, the harder it is to get a key to get a chance to get the skin. I don’t mind things like the HOMM rewards that require you to do certain things to earn them. I don’t mind really rare items like precursors where you can either get lucky or work hard to earn a bunch of gold. The more I think about it though, the less I like sticking unbuyable rare content in the BLCs. It would even be OK with me if the BLC only skins were just a variation on something you could buy, like the quaggan backpacks.

Syeria.4812:

You’re making the (incredibly inaccurate) assumption that no one derives again enjoyment from opening chests.

The problem isn’t randomness. I do not mind randomness. I can completely understand the appeal of it.

I don’t like it but I live with with it because there are options presented to me in order to avoid it (TP.) Whereas with the Fused weapon skins, randomness is the only option presented. That is a terrible decision.

However, with that being said…. Dishonest business? Get real. Regarding this topic, Anet has never said anything that is not true today (I think I posted the quotes maybe in this topic, or the other one.). If you don’t like it, don’t purchase it. If you purchase it, don’t blame Anet, blame yourself.

Making these skins so rare is a bit harsh, but I can’t help but laugh hearing how people are going to quit the game over it.

’I’ll spend my money on something else next time.’

Good! Thank the developers for teaching you a valuable life lesson. Anyone that spent actual money on 100 black lion keys could probably do with taking a break from Guild Wars.

Pandemoniac.4739:

Astral Projections.7320:

Opening the boxes takes money. And that feels like real life. People value money, sometimes very deeply. The emotions concerning it can be very strong. So when you have a feature in game that people feel like is cheating them out of their money, then a lot of emotions come out.

Well, I think it’s strange to feel cheated – it’s not like you opened the chest and got nothing. The point about it costing gold to be able to open the chest I think gets to the heart of the problem though. I agree with folks that only being able to get a skin through a BLC is not a great idea. It would be better if there was a chance to get them through other means in addition to the chests, like participating in the Living Story stuff.

Not only is it a rare drop, but you’re also completely at the mercy of the gold->gem conversion. The more people that want it, the harder it is to get a key to get a chance to get the skin. I don’t mind things like the HOMM rewards that require you to do certain things to earn them. I don’t mind really rare items like precursors where you can either get lucky or work hard to earn a bunch of gold. The more I think about it though, the less I like sticking unbuyable rare content in the BLCs. It would even be OK with me if the BLC only skins were just a variation on something you could buy, like the quaggan backpacks.

I think the other part of your post, about the items being account bound, is also part of it. If the tickets could be sold on the trading post, fewer people would be upset by the RNG nature of it. If the other items could be sold also then it wouldn’t be as annoying, for example, to get crafting boosters when crafting is maxed out. Knowing that you can spend money to not get what you want and get useless/unwanted items is a bad combination. I think that is where people are feeling cheated.

Astral Projections.7320:

I think the other part of your post, about the items being account bound, is also part of it. If the tickets could be sold on the trading post, fewer people would be upset by the RNG nature of it.

Yeah that’s what I was sort of getting at in a round-about way. It wouldn’t be so bad that it’s rare if you could buy them from the people who got lucky and would rather have a big pile of gold than the ticket. It probably would be OK if there was a version of the skin that could be bought that was almost the same, but a different color or didn’t have an effect, etc. so that you could still get the style of the skin even if you don’t have the flashiest version of it.

Groove.3268:

Making these skins so rare is a bit harsh, but I can’t help but laugh hearing how people are going to quit the game over it.

’I’ll spend my money on something else next time.’

Good! Thank the developers for teaching you a valuable life lesson. Anyone that spent actual money on 100 black lion keys could probably do with taking a break from Guild Wars.

On a personal note, I never spend more than i can afford on the gem shop. It’s not just people that are blowing their lunch money on in game purchases here. It’s people that know that pumping income into the company will help them succeed, not the other way around. I don’t for a second believe i SHOULD have got a skin because i opened 200 chests (although it is a bit outrageous), I’m of the mind that it’s a practice best left behind moving forward. Sell the skins or don’t, pretty much the bottom line for me.

204 keys, got my first ticket in the last batch.

165 of those were bought (~315g) , 1 was from claw island, and the other 38 were recycled from the chest drops.

In total, the drops were:
1 fused weapon claim ticket
1 minis 3-pack (set 1)
6 black lion salvage kit
2 total makeover kit
3 self-style hair kit
25 small guild discovery
14 medium guild discovery
12 large guild discovery
50 transmutation crystals (10 stacks of 5)
62 unidentified dyes (19 stacks of 2, 24 stacks of 1)
3 dye packs
85 heavy bag of coins (774.13 silver)
8 black lion mining pick
10 black lion logging axe
6 black lion harvesting sickle
29 bank access express
23 instant repair canisters
19 merchant express
15 revive orbs
30 trading post express
18 armor boosters
15 crafting boosters
16 experience boosters
13 karma boosters
19 killstreak experience boosters
24 magic find boosters
13 pvp glory booster
24 rejuvenation boosters
25 speed boosters
17 strength boosters
2 booster multipacks (karma, magic find, experience)
129 mystery tonics (43 stacks of 3)
38 black lion chest key (used)

Syeria.4812:

You can’t say that having chests is “disrespectful” to players just because you don’t personally like them. You wouldn’t say that grocery stores are disrespecting their customers out of greed by selling pork products (or any other food/drink/item that some group disapproves of) would you?

Yeah, I can. I think the fact that folks are enticed into paying a few hundred dollars for something of arbitrary value, an electronic item with an artificial inflation of worth, is pretty questionable.

To use your example more accurately, if a grocery store sold “Mystery Bags Of Meat” that usually held a hamburger patty and very rarely a prime steak, and people were spending fifty to a hundred dollars for that steak sold nowhere but the mystery bag, I would question that grocery store’s ethics. Whose fault is it? Primarily the customer for being so stupid. But also the store for taking advantage of the people they knew would pay for the bags. I would not frequent that grocery store because I would find it distasteful and irritating. Like I said in a previous post, I think this thing failed the evil test they speak so highly of. They aren’t going to admit it because hey, lots of profit. Along with ill will and frustration; oh, except for the lucky peeps who got a ticket quick. The unlucky ones who spent three or four times what they paid for the game? Alas, RNG. It’s not like the company could make things right for them or anything.

Agree to disagree, I suppose.

PS – I also think casinos and lotteries are predators that milk the poor, so. I have opinions. This was ANET being predatory, not commercial.

LowestTruth.2635:

Yeah, I can. I think the fact that folks are enticed into paying a few hundred dollars for something of arbitrary value, an electronic item with an artificial inflation of worth, is pretty questionable.

Yeah…let me stop you right there. Is Gucci “disrespectful” to their customers? They sell items like purses, frequently for hundreds of dollars, whose value as a physical item is less than $5. Are learning institutions “disrespectful” to their students? A degree is an item of “arbitrary value” and they’re charging tens of thousands of dollars for it. What about Blizzard? They’re charging $15 a month (so $150/yr going on 10 years now) just for the right to even be able to attempt to look at the items they’ve sold for $20+ in many cases.

The argument you’re making should be immediately dismissed because frankly, it’s absurd.

LowestTruth.2635:

Yeah, I can. I think the fact that folks are enticed into paying a few hundred dollars for something of arbitrary value, an electronic item with an artificial inflation of worth, is pretty questionable.

To use your example more accurately, if a grocery store sold “Mystery Bags Of Meat” that usually held a hamburger patty and very rarely a prime steak, and people were spending fifty to a hundred dollars for that steak sold nowhere but the mystery bag, I would question that grocery store’s ethics. Whose fault is it? Primarily the customer for being so stupid. But also the store for taking advantage of the people they knew would pay for the bags. I would not frequent that grocery store because I would find it distasteful and irritating.[/quote]

And from absurd we go to crazy. You just don’t get it. Just because you don’t like something doesn’t mean it’s evil. That’s ultimately what all of this comes down to. You want something sold in one manner, but the owner of that product is selling it in another, so you leap out to try a public shaming so you can get your own way.

If you actually want to try have a discussion, you’ll have to come up with an argument other than “I don’t like it.” Otherwise you’re just wasting everyone’s time.

Syeria.4812:

snip

I love it when people tell me my opinions, which are always subjective, are absurd or crazy. I’m satisfied that I presented them fairly well. You’re welcome to think what you wish.

And from absurd we go to crazy. You just don’t get it. Just because you don’t like something doesn’t mean it’s evil. That’s ultimately what all of this comes down to. You want something sold in one manner, but the owner of that product is selling it in another, so you leap out to try a public shaming so you can get your own way.

If you actually want to try have a discussion, you’ll have to come up with an argument other than “I don’t like it.” Otherwise you’re just wasting everyone’s time.

Unfortunately some people can’t figure out they’re being screwed until they understand the mechanics of it or someone explains it to them. Figuring out the mechanics behind lottery systems requires understanding in college level mathematics; which most people on this planet do not possess.

Syeria.4812:

Yeah…let me stop you right there. Is Gucci “disrespectful” to their customers? They sell items like purses, frequently for hundreds of dollars, whose value as a physical item is less than $5. Are learning institutions “disrespectful” to their students? A degree is an item of “arbitrary value” and they’re charging tens of thousands of dollars for it. What about Blizzard? They’re charging $15 a month (so $150/yr going on 10 years now) just for the right to even be able to attempt to look at the items they’ve sold for $20+ in many cases.

Are you upset? I think you’re tossing around your own form of crazy at this point.

Gucci bags are not the only bags available, these skins, chests and keys are however. Not to mention the fact that Gucci bags have clearly marked costs to them. Seems like a rather silly argument over arbitrary value. What are the value of these skins?

As far as schooling goes, it’s very clear the inherent value is far more than what they charge to get a degree. Just in earnings potential alone, over the course of a lifetime. I’d say it’s a steal.

When it comes to blizzard, i tried WoW for free and yet there is no way i would find value in paying them 15 a month to play that game. That’s totally subjective of course, again really not a case for what the value is of these items being discussed are.

munkiman.3068:

Syeria.4812:

Yeah…let me stop you right there. Is Gucci “disrespectful” to their customers? They sell items like purses, frequently for hundreds of dollars, whose value as a physical item is less than $5. Are learning institutions “disrespectful” to their students? A degree is an item of “arbitrary value” and they’re charging tens of thousands of dollars for it. What about Blizzard? They’re charging $15 a month (so $150/yr going on 10 years now) just for the right to even be able to attempt to look at the items they’ve sold for $20+ in many cases.

Are you upset? I think you’re tossing around your own form of crazy at this point.

Gucci bags are not the only bags available, these skins, chests and keys are however. Not to mention the fact that Gucci bags have clearly marked costs to them. Seems like a rather silly argument over arbitrary value. What are the value of these skins?

As far as schooling goes, it’s very clear the inherent value is far more than what they charge to get a degree. Just in earnings potential alone, over the course of a lifetime. I’d say it’s a steal.

When it comes to blizzard, i tried WoW for free and yet there is no way i would find value in paying them 15 a month to play that game. That’s totally subjective of course, again really not a case for what the value is of these items being discussed are.

Gucci bags aren’t the only bags available but molten skins are the only skin in the entire game? Do you read what you post?

Education is entirely subjective, and while the average college graduate has higher earnings potential than the average non-graduate, that doesn’t account for those who attend some schooling but do not graduate, nor does it actually demonstrate that any individual will increase their earnings. In other words, it’s insanely expensive, with many many hidden costs, and no guarantee that the consumer will ever actually receive anything for their money and effort.

The Blizzard one is where things really come down to it. You tried WoW for free and determined it wasn’t worth the cost to you. Now you’ve examined these skins and determined they’re not worth the cost to you. Same scenario, same determination, same circumstances, yet wildly different conclusions. It’s one or the other, either they’re both “disrespectful” or neither is, unless you can actually come up with a legitimate reason why they’re different.

Syeria.4812:

Gucci bags aren’t the only bags available but molten skins are the only skin in the entire game? Do you read what you post?

There are a lot of bags available that have the same style as a Gucci bag. If I want a Gucci bag and can’t afford the real thing, I can buy something close enough for the money I have to spend.

It’s kind of pointless to argue about price anyhow, because I could spend millions of gold on keys and still not get the skin.

Pandemoniac.4739:

Syeria.4812:

Gucci bags aren’t the only bags available but molten skins are the only skin in the entire game? Do you read what you post?

There are a lot of bags available that have the same style as a Gucci bag. If I want a Gucci bag and can’t afford the real thing, I can buy something close enough for the money I have to spend.

It’s kind of pointless to argue about price anyhow, because I could spend millions of gold on keys and still not get the skin.

Knockoffs are still knockoffs, and are illegal in many (if not most) countries.

Pandemoniac.4739:

Syeria.4812:

Gucci bags aren’t the only bags available but molten skins are the only skin in the entire game? Do you read what you post?

There are a lot of bags available that have the same style as a Gucci bag. If I want a Gucci bag and can’t afford the real thing, I can buy something close enough for the money I have to spend.

It’s kind of pointless to argue about price anyhow, because I could spend millions of gold on keys and still not get the skin.

Pretty much this^

All other analogies to Gucci, schooling and Blizzard don’t seem to make sense to me. I guess going about it in a round about manner is senseless as well. My apologizes.

Syeria.4812:

Pandemoniac.4739:

There are a lot of bags available that have the same style as a Gucci bag. If I want a Gucci bag and can’t afford the real thing, I can buy something close enough for the money I have to spend.

Knockoffs are still knockoffs, and are illegal in many (if not most) countries.

Something “in the style of” is not a knock-off. I was referring to the same style bag without a fake Gucci on it, which is just good old fashioned competition, not illegal.

Some folks were upset that only one color of the quaggan backpack was available for purchase, but many players just bought the one that was available (maybe after a few attempts to get the rarer one from a chest) because it was close enough.

Syeria.4812:

The Blizzard one is where things really come down to it. You tried WoW for free and determined it wasn’t worth the cost to you. Now you’ve examined these skins and determined they’re not worth the cost to you. Same scenario, same determination, same circumstances, yet wildly different conclusions. It’s one or the other, either they’re both “disrespectful” or neither is, unless you can actually come up with a legitimate reason why they’re different.

The Blizzard one would only be accurate in this context if they sold a game card for fifteen bucks that could contain anything from an hour’s subscription to a free lifetime of the game.

</insert Syreia-ish insult and rage about incomprehension here>

LowestTruth.2635:

The Blizzard one would only be accurate in this context if they sold a game card for fifteen bucks that could contain anything from an hour’s subscription to a free lifetime of the game.

So what do you think about Magic: The Gathering?

EDIT: I guess you missed the context of his Blizzard example, which is directly in response to your post:

Yeah, I can. I think the fact that folks are enticed into paying a few hundred dollars for something of arbitrary value, an electronic item with an artificial inflation of worth, is pretty questionable.

Which, taken literally. Yea, that Blizzard analogy applies aptly.

So are you mad at arbitrarily inflating prices? Or the fact that the product is random?

LowestTruth.2635:

Syeria.4812:

The Blizzard one is where things really come down to it. You tried WoW for free and determined it wasn’t worth the cost to you. Now you’ve examined these skins and determined they’re not worth the cost to you. Same scenario, same determination, same circumstances, yet wildly different conclusions. It’s one or the other, either they’re both “disrespectful” or neither is, unless you can actually come up with a legitimate reason why they’re different.

The Blizzard one would only be accurate in this context if they sold a game card for fifteen bucks that could contain anything from an hour’s subscription to a free lifetime of the game.

</insert Syreia-ish insult and rage about incomprehension here>

More like some random amount of money for a chance at getting a months subscription.

Ursan.7846:

So are you mad at arbitrarily inflating prices? Or the fact that the product is random?

Why are you projecting anger into my posts?

EDIT: The whole arbitrary worth thing wasn’t even part of my main point, so other than it being a great nitpicker’s target, I’m not sure why you two are fixated upon it. I’m guessing because the rest of my post was chock full of subjective common sense and there wasn’t much to rage about. Carry on, bro.

LowestTruth.2635:

Ursan.7846:

So are you mad at arbitrarily inflating prices? Or the fact that the product is random?

Why are you projecting anger into my posts?

EDIT: The whole arbitrary worth thing wasn’t even part of my main point, so other than it being a great nitpicker’s target, I’m not sure why you two are fixated upon it. I’m guessing because the rest of my post was chock full of subjective common sense and there wasn’t much to rage about. Carry on, bro.

I guess I’ll repeat myself. Do you think a company providing an item which contains randomized rewards is predatory?

What do you think of Magic: The Gathering then?

Ursan.7846:

LowestTruth.2635:

Ursan.7846:

So are you mad at arbitrarily inflating prices? Or the fact that the product is random?

Why are you projecting anger into my posts?

EDIT: The whole arbitrary worth thing wasn’t even part of my main point, so other than it being a great nitpicker’s target, I’m not sure why you two are fixated upon it. I’m guessing because the rest of my post was chock full of subjective common sense and there wasn’t much to rage about. Carry on, bro.

I guess I’ll repeat myself. Do you think a company providing an item which contains randomized rewards is predatory?

What do you think of Magic: The Gathering then?

Oh, noes. The pointed question of a master debater has backed me into a corner whereupon I must reply or seem evasive and half-hearted, while simultaneously ignoring my own points and pursuing the forum argument like a rabid wolverine instead of agreeing to disagree.

Pass. Read my posts in the thread, you’ll be fine.

Ursan.7846:

I guess I’ll repeat myself. Do you think a company providing an item which contains randomized rewards is predatory?

What do you think of Magic: The Gathering then?

I’m on nobody’s side here, because I hate RNG so I haven’t bought any keys for these skins despite their coolness of design and particles, but I just felt the need to point this out:

You can sell unwanted cards from MTG for various prices depending on rarity and the buyers desire to own it. Heck, I know people that actually turn a pretty darn good profit off of it. Really, you could even trade a card for another card(s). You cannot sell/trade most items you get from a BLC (as most of them are account bound).

No need to attack the guy for stating his opinion.

KorbanDallas.7389:

I’m on nobody’s side here, because I hate RNG so I haven’t bought any keys for these skins despite their coolness of design and particles, but I just felt the need to point this out:

You can sell unwanted cards from MTG for various prices depending on rarity and the buyers desire to own it. Heck, I know people that actually turn a pretty darn good profit off of it. Really, you could even trade a card for another card(s). You cannot sell/trade most items you get from a BLC (as most of them are account bound).

No need to attack the guy for stating his opinion.

So.

I have stated many, many, many, many times how the current system is stupid because you don’t have any other option of obtaining it.

That’s not a problem. We’re in complete and utter agreement if that is the case.

The problem, however, is not the randomness of the process but the fact that Anet offers only one method of obtaining this item.

if a grocery store sold “Mystery Bags Of Meat” that usually held a hamburger patty and very rarely a prime steak, and people were spending fifty to a hundred dollars for that steak sold nowhere but the mystery bag, I would question that grocery store’s ethics. Whose fault is it? Primarily the customer for being so stupid. But also the store for taking advantage of the people they knew would pay for the bags. I would not frequent that grocery store because I would find it distasteful and irritating.

The original quote. Here, you are railing against randomness, not the limitation of choices that Anet has given us. If your opinion is that randomness is predatory, I’ll call your opinion silly. Especially when when we’re looking at a case where we have consenting customers purchasing a chance at a purely cosmetic/luxury items.