Guild Wars 2

I posted this originally in the “I have a questions about the economy” thread. Upon request I deleted the original post and opened a new topic for it.

Lately I had some mental wanderings regarding the changes announced in the Introducing the Collections Achievement Category blog post and what potential impact they could have on the economy. To put it bluntly, I am a little worried.

Let me first explain why, based on the example of unlocking these new Item Collections achievements given in the blog post: The Spirit Crafter back item.
Judging from the screenshot of a Norn lady wielding Foefire’s Power , just above the paragraph about rewards, in which it says…

“There are a number of new pieces of equipment, recipes, and functional unlocks that can only be found as rewards for Item Collections, like the new Spirit Crafter back item, earned by completing its namesake achievement.”

… I am assuming that we will unlock this particular back item skin (or its recipe, idk) by unlocking several or maybe even all five of the weapon skins that resemble guardian spirit weapons (Eidolon, Aether, Azureflame, Foefire´s Power, Foefire´s Essence).

If I have understood the post correctly and if the achievement turns out to be actually compelling enough (through item rewards, skins, AP, ??), I think a lot of players that previously had no interest in acquiring these weapon skins will be inclined to go for them.
In case of the spirit weapon skins, which already are expensive high-demand-low-supply items, I see a massive rise in prices incoming. For both, the weapons themselves, as well as the materials involved in crafting them (which is even scarier imo).

Further, if this first assumption is correct, I think it is save to say that this method of unlocking the Item Collections achievements also holds true for other expensive sets of skins, possibly even (Zommoros forbid) the skin sets acquired via BLC tickets.

I realize that such price increases would not be a bad thing per se, but I fear that it will be super frustrating for the average player to pursue these achievements and will result in a lot of whining and rage (you know, precursors all over again).

TL;DR: I fear that the new Item Collections achievements will disrupt the markets of high-demand-low-supply skin sets (e.g. the spirit weapon skins) and will result in massive price increases across the board that will upset and frustrate a large portion of the community.

I guess my questions to all the BLTC-Vets here would be:

• Am I totally wrong with these assumptions?
  If not…
• Huge oversight or working-as-intended?
• Could there be some sort of mechanism/barrier to prevent this in development we do not know of yet (I cannot think of one)?

I do not expect prices for lower level and common mats to change much. There will no doubt be basic collection achievements for fine/masterwork etc. armor, but there was already an initial spike in these areas back when the Wardrobe was first introduced, and I expect a lot of players will unlock these collections by default since the skins are already in their Wardrobe.

There may indeed be some price disruption for high-end cosmetic gear like what you mention, but if it gets bad enough that people start becoming very vocal about it, I also believe ANet would look at adjusting the drop rate of the materials needed to craft them to compensate.

Charged Lodestones were always a problem. I doubt anet will change it for this

Right now its just an assumption youre making and there is no point in discussing it until we actually see the requirements for the achievements.

Wanze.8410:

Right now its just an assumption youre making and there is no point in discussing it until we actually see the requirements for the achievements.

Oh?
There is a point.
If we react to the bad changes fast, some of them might be reworked before launch – like commander tag prices from 1200g to 300g.

I think that problem mentioned by OP is very real and ANet should look into it if they don’t irritate community again (while the original problem – precursors) is not solved at all yet.

I believe in John Smith, i’m sure he thought this through.

Sampo.9678:

I believe in John Smith, i’m sure he thought this through.

if not though they could just tweak drop rates to balance it out and not tell anyone they are doing it

Wanze.8410:

Right now its just an assumption youre making and there is no point in discussing it until we actually see the requirements for the achievements.

I can only agree partially. Yes I am just speculating, I could be totally wrong about the Spirit Crafter achievement and of course it is possible that the spirit weapon look-alike skins are not involved in the process of unlocking this particular achievement at all.

However, it is made very clear in the blog post that unlocking skins in the wardrobe in general will be pivotal for unlocking some of the new achievements (see paragraphs “unlock types” and “collection types”) and therefor I think a discussion about possible problems with this system is very appropriate at this point.

I think people will still prefer to focus on their legendaries. The only price I see going up is orichalcum. Any further speculation is entirely dependent on Anets choice for the next LS locations and rewards.

Well, the definitely shouldn’t have collection rewards based on TP-purchased items. They should be account-bound things that you have to earn for yourself, like karma rewards.

They also have to be careful not to have collections based off of skins that were previously available in PvP, as plenty of serious PvPers have a ton of skins that would have been super experiensive to get via PvE, and it would not be fair to those who never had an interest in PvP to retroactively give them such a disadvantage in collecting these things.

Skoigoth.9238:

Wanze.8410:

Right now its just an assumption youre making and there is no point in discussing it until we actually see the requirements for the achievements.

I can only agree partially. Yes I am just speculating, I could be totally wrong about the Spirit Crafter achievement and of course it is possible that the spirit weapon look-alike skins are not involved in the process of unlocking this particular achievement at all.

However, it is made very clear in the blog post that unlocking skins in the wardrobe in general will be pivotal for unlocking some of the new achievements (see paragraphs “unlock types” and “collection types”) and therefor I think a discussion about possible problems with this system is very appropriate at this point.

So you are worried, that alot of people spend 2000g+ to craft those weapons to get the achievement and backpack?

So you are worried, that alot of people spend 2000g+ to craft those weapons to get the achievement and backpack?

I don’t know about him, but I’m more worried that if I want that backpack, then the only way to get it might involve spending all that money. I don’t have that money to spend, but might want that backpack (or one in a similar predicament).

It would be nice if they gave us some clarity on this that they would not be adding any collections that would cause prices to rise on the TP for either finished goods or materials.

Wanze.8410:

So you are worried, that alot of people spend 2000g+ to craft those weapons to get the achievement and backpack?

Hmm, I am not sure if the point I tried to make earlier came across but, in principle, I am not concerned with people that have a lot gold spending it on things they like (who am I to judge that?).

It is more about what Ohoni mentioned in his post. I fear that the majority of the people who actually want the achievements/rewards wont have the gold to get them to begin with. What I am worried about is that those who can afford to spend these potential ~2k gold will eventually drive up the prices, so that the others at last wont be able to keep up with the growing prices, without drastically changing their way of playing the game (which is not fun, and as far as I am concerned, unlocking stuff should primarily be an enjoyable experience).

Then, as I mentioned in the OP, I also believe that there is a strong possibility that this will heavily affect markets other than weapons and armor pieces, e.g. t6 crafting materials, lodestones etc., which are used for all sorts of crafting activities. Whether these will be negative or positive effects is hard to tell (as you wrote, we do not know the true requirements yet) but, as I already explained, I am worried that it will be negative for the most part.

It is a matter of perspective you know, currently I am making enough gold to fulfill the requirements of my set in-game objective, which is to fully gear my seven toons with ascended equipment, while simultaneously work slowly towards crafting a legendary weapon. But then I personally know a lot of players who severely struggle with getting the stuff they want, be it a legendary, BiS gear, a full mini collection or whatever, it doesn´t really matter what the goal is.
I dislike bringing this up here, but just look at how many people regularly and over a lengthy period of time are complaining about the struggle of precursor acquisition. I just do not think that something like that (even though on a smaller scale probably) would be very healthy for the game.

Yes, sorry for repeating myself again, this is all highly speculative at the moment, but I prefer to voice my concerns about these changes now, instead of remaining silent and hope for the best until it could be to late.

Well, on one hand, people cry out ofr skins to be obtainable through regular gameplay instead of exclusively form the gem store but once Anet implements that, people are afraid prices of mats involved will rise.
Everybody wants rare skins to set himself up from the crowd but once a skin takes too much time investment to acquire, people complain about it.

Demand will certainly go up. No doubt about that.

this spiritweapons or all items you posted are no problem

they are easy crafted and only problem material for this and ever was are SKILLPOINTZ

Romek.4201:

this spiritweapons or all items you posted are no problem

they are easy crafted and only problem material for this and ever was are SKILLPOINTZ

Skill points are a problem? I had almost 550 on my main a few days ago, and then I bought a bloodstone shard.

I could see some of the collection rewards being rarer than legendaires if there are some difficult and expensive collections.

I just hope the rewards are worthwhile. The system is a great idea but without good rewards no one will do it.

kittening giant eyes went up like a rocket.

Obviously, it depends on what the collected items are supposed to be.

It looks like a scavenger hunt involving going to renown karma hearts is confirmed, and various cooking/recipe unlocking is confirmed. New drops in dungeons seem to have been hinted at. Minipets were confirmed.

I’d be surprised to see gemstore skins involved.

But if you think that rare mystic forge skins are involved, it might be smart to buy up a stack of mystic coins right now, to flip for 400% profit in a few days.

Well, my one consolation in this one, if you’ve been following any of the threads on precursor crafting, is that the economic experts around here assure me that they will NEVER make precursors more common, because that would drive up demand for related materials in the marketplace and lead to chaos and destruction. Well if that’s true, then obviously it’s IMPOSSIBLE for them to massively increase demand on all these other items, because that would be even more destructive.

The economic experts can’t be wrong, right?

Ohoni.6057:

Well, my one consolation in this one, if you’ve been following any of the threads on precursor crafting, is that the economic experts around here assure me that they will NEVER make precursors more common, because that would drive up demand for related materials in the marketplace and lead to chaos and destruction. Well if that’s true, then obviously it’s IMPOSSIBLE for them to massively increase demand on all these other items, because that would be even more destructive.

The economic experts can’t be wrong, right?

You may find it worth re-examining the recipes for these items and what’s needed for the legendary weapons. You’ll quickly see how your argument falls apart.

Ayrilana.1396:

Ohoni.6057:

Well, my one consolation in this one, if you’ve been following any of the threads on precursor crafting, is that the economic experts around here assure me that they will NEVER make precursors more common, because that would drive up demand for related materials in the marketplace and lead to chaos and destruction. Well if that’s true, then obviously it’s IMPOSSIBLE for them to massively increase demand on all these other items, because that would be even more destructive.

The economic experts can’t be wrong, right?

You may find it worth re-examining the recipes for these items and what’s needed for the legendary weapons. You’ll quickly see how your argument falls apart.

^^

Wanze.8410:

Ayrilana.1396:

Ohoni.6057:

Well, my one consolation in this one, if you’ve been following any of the threads on precursor crafting, is that the economic experts around here assure me that they will NEVER make precursors more common, because that would drive up demand for related materials in the marketplace and lead to chaos and destruction. Well if that’s true, then obviously it’s IMPOSSIBLE for them to massively increase demand on all these other items, because that would be even more destructive.

The economic experts can’t be wrong, right?

You may find it worth re-examining the recipes for these items and what’s needed for the legendary weapons. You’ll quickly see how your argument falls apart.

^^

Yeah b/c needing 500 charged lodestones (spirit back skin) is not like needing 100 (legendary) or 350 (mjolnir).

Essence Snow.3194:

Wanze.8410:

Ayrilana.1396:

Ohoni.6057:

Well, my one consolation in this one, if you’ve been following any of the threads on precursor crafting, is that the economic experts around here assure me that they will NEVER make precursors more common, because that would drive up demand for related materials in the marketplace and lead to chaos and destruction. Well if that’s true, then obviously it’s IMPOSSIBLE for them to massively increase demand on all these other items, because that would be even more destructive.

The economic experts can’t be wrong, right?

You may find it worth re-examining the recipes for these items and what’s needed for the legendary weapons. You’ll quickly see how your argument falls apart.

^^

Yeah b/c needing 500 charged lodestones (spirit back skin) is not like needing 100 (legendary) or 350 (mjolnir).

The Charged Lodestones would go into forging the spirit weapons, not into the backpack, so thats still 100 charged ls per exclusive skin you pay.

How much fine t6 mats go into spirit weapons?

Not seeing the difference.

Ohoni.6057:

Not seeing the difference.

The difference between the material lists for legendaries and spirit weapons is that the one for legendaries is quite a bit longer.

Spirit weapons would only put additional demand on charged lodestones, Orichalcum Ingots, Hard Leather, Mystic Coins and Ancient wood. Not even ectos are required.

While legendaries, apart from the items already listed above, also puts additional demand on t6 fine mats, t3-6 common mats and ectos, just to name a few.

The problem is not only that those items will get more expensive but also the items that require them to be crafted.

Especially t6 fine and t3-6 common mats as well as ectos are used in leveling your crafting professions and crafting exotic and ascended gear.
Would you like those to be more expensive, so you can save a couple of hundred gold on a precursor?

Wanze.8410:

Essence Snow.3194:

Wanze.8410:

Ayrilana.1396:

Ohoni.6057:

Well, my one consolation in this one, if you’ve been following any of the threads on precursor crafting, is that the economic experts around here assure me that they will NEVER make precursors more common, because that would drive up demand for related materials in the marketplace and lead to chaos and destruction. Well if that’s true, then obviously it’s IMPOSSIBLE for them to massively increase demand on all these other items, because that would be even more destructive.

The economic experts can’t be wrong, right?

You may find it worth re-examining the recipes for these items and what’s needed for the legendary weapons. You’ll quickly see how your argument falls apart.

^^

Yeah b/c needing 500 charged lodestones (spirit back skin) is not like needing 100 (legendary) or 350 (mjolnir).

The Charged Lodestones would go into forging the spirit weapons, not into the backpack, so thats still 100 charged ls per exclusive skin you pay.

How much fine t6 mats go into spirit weapons?

250 ori ingots, 250 cured hardened leather sections, and 750 more ignots or 1000 ancient planks…per weapon so multiple those by 5. That might also effect t5 mats promotion

Essence Snow.3194:

Wanze.8410:

Essence Snow.3194:

Wanze.8410:

Ayrilana.1396:

Ohoni.6057:

Well, my one consolation in this one, if you’ve been following any of the threads on precursor crafting, is that the economic experts around here assure me that they will NEVER make precursors more common, because that would drive up demand for related materials in the marketplace and lead to chaos and destruction. Well if that’s true, then obviously it’s IMPOSSIBLE for them to massively increase demand on all these other items, because that would be even more destructive.

The economic experts can’t be wrong, right?

You may find it worth re-examining the recipes for these items and what’s needed for the legendary weapons. You’ll quickly see how your argument falls apart.

^^

Yeah b/c needing 500 charged lodestones (spirit back skin) is not like needing 100 (legendary) or 350 (mjolnir).

The Charged Lodestones would go into forging the spirit weapons, not into the backpack, so thats still 100 charged ls per exclusive skin you pay.

How much fine t6 mats go into spirit weapons?

250 ori ingots, 250 cured hardened leather sections, and 750 more ignots or 1000 ancient planks…per weapon so multiple those by 5. That might also effect t5 mats promotion

As mentioned above, its more about the variety of items that are needed and their uses in different markets.

I’d keep in mind that if this is as complexly fun as they think, there will be far more things to collect than spoons and spirit weapons. It’s not like every single player will locust on to the spirit weapons; at the very least they may well go for lower hanging fruit to start with and spirit weapon construction will be more spread out.

And that’s kinda the issue at hand. It’ll effect much more than just spirit weapons and the related components. It most likely will be rather far reaching, to an extent similar to the shake up that Ohoni mentioned

Essence Snow.3194:

Wanze.8410:

Essence Snow.3194:

Wanze.8410:

Ayrilana.1396:

Ohoni.6057:

Well, my one consolation in this one, if you’ve been following any of the threads on precursor crafting, is that the economic experts around here assure me that they will NEVER make precursors more common, because that would drive up demand for related materials in the marketplace and lead to chaos and destruction. Well if that’s true, then obviously it’s IMPOSSIBLE for them to massively increase demand on all these other items, because that would be even more destructive.

The economic experts can’t be wrong, right?

You may find it worth re-examining the recipes for these items and what’s needed for the legendary weapons. You’ll quickly see how your argument falls apart.

^^

Yeah b/c needing 500 charged lodestones (spirit back skin) is not like needing 100 (legendary) or 350 (mjolnir).

The Charged Lodestones would go into forging the spirit weapons, not into the backpack, so thats still 100 charged ls per exclusive skin you pay.

How much fine t6 mats go into spirit weapons?

250 ori ingots, 250 cured hardened leather sections, and 750 more ignots or 1000 ancient planks…per weapon so multiple those by 5. That might also effect t5 mats promotion

Ori ore and ancient logs are easily farmable and you can be assured that there will be node farmers farming them and causing a downward push on prices. Leather has relatively no value at the moment nor do mystic coins. Just the charged lodestones would have an effect but it would be minimal since so few items use them.

The items used for legendaries have a widespread use and an increase in the price would have a large impact on the economy. Factor in various percent increases of all legendary weapon materials and look at what impact it has on other recipes throughout the market. Let’s not talk about what an increase in ecto price would do.

Also consider the difference between a 50% price increase in materials for the essence weapons vs a 50% increase in materials for the legendary weapons. There’s a very wide gap as the essence material prices are already very low as their primary cost factor are the charged lodestones.

The difference between the material lists for legendaries and spirit weapons is that the one for legendaries is quite a bit longer.

Not really. Legendaires use a stack each of 8 T6 mats, then maybe a bunch of metal or wood, but most of the stuff that goes into a legendary is account-bound and acquired elsewhere.

I really think that if they added collections that required, for example, all the spirti weapons, then the price of the related materials would go up WAY more than if they increased precursor availability.

Would you like those to be more expensive, so you can save a couple of hundred gold on a precursor?

Sure, if necessary, but as I’ve pointed out elsewhere, they can anticipate an increase in demand and offset it with an equivalent increase in supply (by making them drop more often into the world), resulting in no long term change to cost.

I’d keep in mind that if this is as complexly fun as they think, there will be far more things to collect than spoons and spirit weapons. It’s not like every single player will locust on to the spirit weapons; at the very least they may well go for lower hanging fruit to start with and spirit weapon construction will be more spread out.

And I’m sure just as many people will go after Rodgort as go after Sunrise. No, the simple fact is, whatever results “look cool,” those are the ones people will go after. The others they’ll pick up casually, but the best looking stuff will be in high demand, and would drive up any associated prices significantly. There might be a few different “cool” things that would be competing for the top spot, but there will be winners and losers.

Essence Snow.3194:

And that’s kinda the issue at hand. It’ll effect much more than just spirit weapons and the related components. It most likely will be rather far reaching, to an extent similar to the shake up that Ohoni mentioned

Well, if we look at the required items, the only ones that are a concern are ori an ancient wood as well as the charged lodestones.

To make 1 spirit weapon, we need 10 ori ingots and 10 ancient wood planks for every charged lodestone. If we look at their supply on the tp, we will run out of lodestones way before any serious demand on ori/ancient can be applied, so I wouldnt be concerned about those two.

That leaves us with charged lodestones.
They come from chests in CoE and FotM and are on the loot table of 9 different containers.
They also drop from 7 different mobs.

4 of those mobs were recently introduced in Dry Top and 3 of the containers also drop in Dry Top. 2 more containers containing charged lodestones are loot and champ bags from wvw, with season 3 coming up this month, their droprate will rise significantly.

Especially with the extra drops from dry top, maybe Anet already adressed that issue a couple of months prior to the feature pack.

By more than spirit weapons I meant that there will be other items besides those needed for crafting spirit weapons that will be shaken up. From the screens we know there will be a common achievement tab as well as the rare one. That will most likely include all components of those items as well. This is not contained to charged lodestones by any means.

Essence Snow.3194:

By more than spirit weapons I meant that there will be other items besides those needed for crafting spirit weapons that will be shaken up. From the screens we know there will be a common achievement tab as well as the rare one. That will most likely include all components of those items as well. This is not contained to charged lodestones by any means.

Well, thats something we have seen with every update that puts demand on certain items. Prices change, the farmer/crafters adapt, price find a new equilibrium.

I dont see that as something to be concerned about.

Well, thats something we have seen with every update that puts demand on certain items. Prices change, the farmer/crafters adapt, price find a new equilibrium.

Just like if they made precursors far more common.

Ohoni.6057:

Well, thats something we have seen with every update that puts demand on certain items. Prices change, the farmer/crafters adapt, price find a new equilibrium.

Just like if they made precursors far more common.

Then the gifts would get more expensive and the price for obtaining a legendary would stay the same, so it would remedy nothing.

It would only benefit those players that already have crafted all their gifts and just need their precursor.

His next response will be that they can just increase T6 material drops rates and then have some event that artificially inflates supply temporarily to meet the sudden increased demand.

Ayrilana.1396:

His next response will be that they can just increase T6 material drops rates and then have some event that artificially inflates supply temporarily to meet the sudden increased demand.

Or they could send 5000 gems to all players per mail.

Ayrilana.1396:

His next response will be that they can just increase T6 material drops rates and then have some event that artificially inflates supply temporarily to meet the sudden increased demand.

You mean like Wanze mentioned a few posts ago?

Wanze.8410:

That leaves us with charged lodestones.
They come from chests in CoE and FotM and are on the loot table of 9 different containers.
They also drop from 7 different mobs.

4 of those mobs were recently introduced in Dry Top and 3 of the containers also drop in Dry Top. 2 more containers containing charged lodestones are loot and champ bags from wvw, with season 3 coming up this month, their droprate will rise significantly.

Especially with the extra drops from dry top, maybe Anet already adressed that issue a couple of months prior to the feature pack.

Ohoni.6057:

The difference between the material lists for legendaries and spirit weapons is that the one for legendaries is quite a bit longer.

Not really. Legendaires use a stack each of 8 T6 mats, then maybe a bunch of metal or wood, but most of the stuff that goes into a legendary is account-bound and acquired elsewhere.

I would take an additional look at the materials needed for the legendary.

• The gift of mastery has four account bound items.
• The gift of fortune has two account bound items (for clovers).
• The legendary gift has two account bound items (dungeon tokens + icy runestones)

So that’s a total of 8 account bound items. There are 28 individual items needed (some repeated such as obi shards). So that means it consists of 28.6% of the needed line items. Yep. That’s a majority.

Then the gifts would get more expensive and the price for obtaining a legendary would stay the same, so it would remedy nothing.

We start to go around in circles when you ignore what I say, and that gets us nowhere.

You mean like Wanze mentioned a few posts ago?

Like that, but totally different, because of reasons.

So that’s a total of 8 account bound items. There are 28 individual items needed (some repeated such as obi shards). So that means it consists of 28.6% of the needed line items. Yep. That’s a majority.

You’re just considering quantities, not the amount of effort that goes into it.

Ohoni.6057:

So that’s a total of 8 account bound items. There are 28 individual items needed (some repeated such as obi shards). So that means it consists of 28.6% of the needed line items. Yep. That’s a majority.

You’re just considering quantities, not the amount of effort that goes into it.

I’m really confused now. First you were arguing that “most of the stuff” that goes into a legendary was account bound. “Most of the stuff” is normally a quantity. You were also using that argument against The differences in material lists between the two. Did you forget?

Here. I’ll help you out.

Ohoni.6057:

The difference between the material lists for legendaries and spirit weapons is that the one for legendaries is quite a bit longer.

Not really. Legendaires use a stack each of 8 T6 mats, then maybe a bunch of metal or wood, but most of the stuff that goes into a legendary is account-bound and acquired elsewhere.

Do you remember now? This was exactly what my post was referring to. Actually, I just looked at my post and it did have it quoted. So why did you change your argument? Were you unable to defend it so you had to make up a new one?

Well I’ll go ahead and argue against your perception that the account bound items take more effort. I’ll assume when you say effort that you mean the effort for the account bound items compared to the others that are not for a legendary.

Badges of Honor, skill points, and the ~1,000,000 karma can be earned in EotM at a fairly quick rate. Karma can be earned even quicker depending on your boosts and buffs. I’d say 15 hours but probably less.

You then have the 500 dungeon tokens which is about 3 full runs of whichever dungeon that is required for the gift. Pretty painless as you can do these fairly easily and there are always groups doing the paths. Some of the least popular ones will be harder to get people to group with but you can always extend the time you take to get the tokens and stick with the easier and quicker paths. Easy peasy.

Icy runestones are purchasable with gold so that’s really no different than the other sell-able items. The gift of exploration will take the most time out of the account bound items. You can do it in less that 50 hours though. At the average rate of 5 gold per hour, that equates to 250 gold. Much less than it takes to purchase all of the other components. You can double it to 100 hours but it’ll still be much less.

So exactly how does it take more effort to get the account bound items when it takes more time to get the gold for the other items or to farm them? I’m quite certain that it would take you more time to farm the T6 materials themselves than it would to to world completion.

I’m really confused now. First you were arguing that “most of the stuff” that goes into a legendary was account bound. “Most of the stuff” is normally a quantity. You were also using that argument against The differences in material lists between the two. Did you forget?

I’m not going to engage in a semantic runaround, if you didn’t understand my meaning, then I’m sorry.

Icy runestones are purchasable with gold so that’s really no different than the other sell-able items. The gift of exploration will take the most time out of the account bound items. You can do it in less that 50 hours though. At the average rate of 5 gold per hour, that equates to 250 gold.

“At the average rate of 5 gold per hour?” Where do you get your averages? No way would you average 5g per hour, especially if you’re trying to get world completion while doing so. Try 1g per hour. Maybe. In any case, it takes way less effort than that to buy up all the T6 mats if you have a ton of gold.

Ohoni.6057:

I’m really confused now. First you were arguing that “most of the stuff” that goes into a legendary was account bound. “Most of the stuff” is normally a quantity. You were also using that argument against The differences in material lists between the two. Did you forget?

I’m not going to engage in a semantic runaround, if you didn’t understand my meaning, then I’m sorry.

You actually changed your argument so not really anything about semantics.

Ohoni.6057:

Icy runestones are purchasable with gold so that’s really no different than the other sell-able items. The gift of exploration will take the most time out of the account bound items. You can do it in less that 50 hours though. At the average rate of 5 gold per hour, that equates to 250 gold.

“At the average rate of 5 gold per hour?” Where do you get your averages? No way would you average 5g per hour, especially if you’re trying to get world completion while doing so. Try 1g per hour. Maybe.

Perhaps you should read my entire post again. You would see that I was comparing the time that would be spent doing world completion to how much you would have earned on average by farming during that time instead. I showed that you earned far less gold during that time frame than what you would have to have to buy up the T6 materials. To farm the gold to buy them takes more effort as a result.

Ohoni.6057:

In any case, it takes way less effort than that to buy up all the T6 mats if you have a ton of gold.

Not really an argument. It takes way less effort than that to get the account bound materials if you have everything you need for them. Flawed argument is flawed.

Guess what? It’s easier for me to buy a Lamborghini if I already have the cash. If I don’t have the cash? Ummm….

EDIT:

Something else also came to mind. If you believe that the account bound materials take more effort than the purchasable ones then that must include the precursor too. So that must mean that your arguments that precursors needing to be more affordable means that Anet also needs to make all of the account bound items easier to get. After all, your statement (through omission) is pretty much saying that farming the gold for a precursor takes less effort than to do world completion or farm karma.

rojak.1894:

kittening giant eyes went up like a rocket.

that’ll be at least in part due to a post on guildwars2tradingpost website

Perhaps you should read my entire post again. You would see that I was comparing the time that would be spent doing world completion to how much you would have earned on average by farming during that time instead. I showed that you earned far less gold during that time frame than what you would have to have to buy up the T6 materials. To farm the gold to buy them takes more effort as a result.

Depends on how you make your gold. Plenty of people make far more gold with far less effort, which is why the “you should have to earn the gold to buy your pre” message is a bit tone deaf.

Not really an argument. It takes way less effort than that to get the account bound materials if you have everything you need for them. Flawed argument is flawed.

Not really. Nobody is just handed World Completion, that’s something that takes effort. Making gold on the TP is more clever tactics than effort, and plenty of people make enough gold to afford a Legendary without ever accomplishing much of anything.

Guess what? It’s easier for me to buy a Lamborghini if I already have the cash. If I don’t have the cash? Ummm….

Exactly my point. Owning a Lamborghini is just a sign that you have a lot of money, not that you’ve actually accomplished much, and likewise having a Pre (and the non-bound ingredients) is just a sign that you have a lot of money, it’s the other ingredients that show you have actually gone out and played the game. I’m just saying, the “I have a lot of gold” ingredients should be toned down.

Ohoni.6057:

Perhaps you should read my entire post again. You would see that I was comparing the time that would be spent doing world completion to how much you would have earned on average by farming during that time instead. I showed that you earned far less gold during that time frame than what you would have to have to buy up the T6 materials. To farm the gold to buy them takes more effort as a result.

Depends on how you make your gold. Plenty of people make far more gold with far less effort, which is why the “you should have to earn the gold to buy your pre” message is a bit tone deaf.

And you’re still diverting away from your original statement about most of the stuff for legendaries are account bound. You’re now arguing that account bound items require more effort on players over everything else because gold is apparently easier to get in the quantities needed for all of those purchasable items.

You make some argument that since some people can make a lot of gold easier than account bound then that much apply to everyone and thus make your argument correct. That reasoning is flawed.

Ohoni.6057:

Not really an argument. It takes way less effort than that to get the account bound materials if you have everything you need for them. Flawed argument is flawed.

Not really. Nobody is just handed World Completion, that’s something that takes effort. Making gold on the TP is more clever tactics than effort, and plenty of people make enough gold to afford a Legendary without ever accomplishing much of anything.

Yeah and well nobody is just handed the gold to purchase what they need for their legendaries. You assume that they already have the gold so therefore account bound items require more effort as a result. Just look back at what you said.

You use quantifiers such as plenty but exactly how many people are plenty? If they’re a large amount of players then that makes all of your arguments in other threads about precursors needing to be cheaper irrelevant. How can you argue in one thread that account bound items for legendaries take more effort than obtaining gold and then in another thread arguing that obtaining gold is so difficult that something must be done to make precursors more obtainable?

Ohoni.6057:

Guess what? It’s easier for me to buy a Lamborghini if I already have the cash. If I don’t have the cash? Ummm….

Exactly my point. Owning a Lamborghini is just a sign that you have a lot of money, not that you’ve actually accomplished much, and likewise having a Pre (and the non-bound ingredients) is just a sign that you have a lot of money, it’s the other ingredients that show you have actually gone out and played the game. I’m just saying, the “I have a lot of gold” ingredients should be toned down.

Why do the “I have a lot of gold” ingredients need to be toned down when you clearly stated that getting the gold for them requires less effort than getting the account bound items for the legendaries? You also missed the point with my example.

Yeah and well nobody is just handed the gold to purchase what they need for their legendaries. You assume that they already have the gold so therefore account bound items require more effort as a result. Just look back at what you said.

You use quantifiers such as plenty but exactly how many people are plenty? If they’re a large amount of players then that makes all of your arguments in other threads about precursors needing to be cheaper irrelevant. How can you argue in one thread that account bound items for legendaries take more effort than obtaining gold and then in another thread arguing that obtaining gold is so difficult that something must be done to make precursors more obtainable?

You’re trying to turn this into a semantics argument again, but the point remains that there are some people for whom gaining gold is a very effort and time consuming activity, but others for whom it is a fairly simple and casual experience, so gold should not be the primary factor in who can get a legendary or not.

Why do the “I have a lot of gold” ingredients need to be toned down when you clearly stated that getting the gold for them requires less effort than getting the account bound items for the legendaries? You also missed the point with my example.

I’m saying that it can take less work, not that it always does. That’s my point, the amount of effort that goes into accumulating gold varies far too wildly from person to person. If every player had to put forth the exact same amount of gameplay effort to accumulate 1500g then I wouldn’t be so opposed to using it as a metric of overall accomplishment.