Min. 1% price-difference

Min. 1% price-difference

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Posted by: Smooth Penguin.5294

Smooth Penguin.5294

“Meaningful” as a description of an amount is “meaningless”. We are dealing with numbers here … go ahead and tell us why working in differences of 1c are ‘meaningless’, then there can be a rational discussion.

The truth is that your ‘meaningful’ amount is irrelevant. No imagined problem is going to be fixed by changing the minimum buy/sell increment. The system works now; it works especially well for everyone that isn’t basing their prices on unrealistic values.

neg·li·gi·ble
adjective
1. so small or unimportant as to be not worth considering; insignificant.

There is a reason as to why the tax and listing fees are in percents and not a fixed copper amount. The minimal bid should be as well for the exact same reasons.

Please see the following:

To me, selling an item for 1 Copper less is meaningful, since I get to sell mine ahead of the higher priced good. So I’m still not understanding what your point is. Do you mean to say that the price difference of 1 Copper is not meaningful to you? And how am I up to no good if my selling habits don’t conform to a non-existent standard?

I propose the same to your previous post. Who deems 1 Copper as “insignificant”? You? Because the way I see it, I’m selling my item before another player whose price is 1 Copper more. That’s pretty significant to me, esp. when I’m trying to sell my item more quickly than the other guy.

On the flip side, it’s pretty significant to the person buying my item, since they’re getting it cheaper than if they bought it from the other guy.

In GW2, Trading Post plays you!

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Posted by: Drago Ivansen.5398

Drago Ivansen.5398

It is relevant because 1c is negligible when dealing with 100’s of gold. This was not an issue at the beginning of the game, but as inflation has increase the copper is becoming more and more useless. Its only power is its OP ability to skip to the front of the line in the trading post. This is a hack in an otherwise brilliant market and only those who flip and manipulate the market would object to it.

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Posted by: Wanze.8410

Wanze.8410

All this 1% rule would do, is making markets more volatile (70 undercuts will equal a 50% value loss), by spreading new listings over a wider value, especially in high volume markets. This makes it easier to manipulate those markets, as it results in general value swings of 30-50% depending on the day and time.

I still have to see a compelling reason how this change would benefit the player base as a whole.

An example of a market that you think would be negatively effected would be helpful. I don’t understand how this would facilitate a 30-50% swing in a market any differently than one could today.

It would not spread out new listings, just the undercuts. Instead of have a listing at 10 gold and one at 9 gold 99 silver 99 copper, you would have 2 listing at 10 gold. If the second person really wanted to sell first then they should sell at a different price point. This is exactly how things work today with items that cost a silver. I think everyone would agree it would be awkward to bid at a fraction of a copper. So either the market for cheap items is broken and can easily be manipulated or the market for big ticket items broken with all the micro-bids.

Tier 4 fine mats (claws, scales, totems etc.) would be a prime example:
Current value between 2-5s, between 10-15k overall supply and their main supply source (various lootbags) could be worked the same way as i outlined in this post, which would greatly benefit from the 1% rule:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/bltc/Min-1-price-difference/first#post3867050

Can you please give me a meaningful reason now, why this 1% rule would benefit the whole playerbase and improve the status quo?

You are trying to fix something that is not broken…

Tin Foil [HATS]-Hardcore BLTC-PvP Guild
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.

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Posted by: Schizo.1375

Schizo.1375

It is relevant because 1c is negligible when dealing with 100’s of gold. This was not an issue at the beginning of the game, but as inflation has increase the copper is becoming more and more useless. Its only power is its OP ability to skip to the front of the line in the trading post. This is a hack in an otherwise brilliant market and only those who flip and manipulate the market would object to it.

You either aren’t understanding Penguin’s point or blatantly ignoring it. The 1c is significant because it helps him, or anyone else, sell his product faster. You can keep repeating that 1c is nothing when selling for gold but it IS significant even though it might not affect the end profit. You are not allowed to determine what is and is not significant for anyone but yourself.

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Posted by: Smooth Penguin.5294

Smooth Penguin.5294

It is relevant because 1c is negligible when dealing with 100’s of gold. This was not an issue at the beginning of the game, but as inflation has increase the copper is becoming more and more useless. Its only power is its OP ability to skip to the front of the line in the trading post. This is a hack in an otherwise brilliant market and only those who flip and manipulate the market would object to it.

You keep ignoring the question at hand. Who is the 1 Copper difference negligible to? It seems that you’re trying to push an idea based solely on your own personal preferences. If that’s the case, then feel free to post items for values more than 1% less than the current offering, and post Buy Orders for 1% more than the highest offer.

We can’t stop you from using the TP as you see fit, just as you can’t stop us from undercutting by 1 Copper.

In GW2, Trading Post plays you!

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Posted by: Drago Ivansen.5398

Drago Ivansen.5398

You keep ignoring the question at hand. Who is the 1 Copper difference negligible to? It seems that you’re trying to push an idea based solely on your own personal preferences. If that’s the case, then feel free to post items for values more than 1% less than the current offering, and post Buy Orders for 1% more than the highest offer.

We can’t stop you from using the TP as you see fit, just as you can’t stop us from undercutting by 1 Copper.

I didn’t ignore you. It is negligible to anet, hence the reason they already use percentages for all other trading post aspects.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/bltc/Min-1-price-difference/3868663

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Posted by: Smooth Penguin.5294

Smooth Penguin.5294

You keep ignoring the question at hand. Who is the 1 Copper difference negligible to? It seems that you’re trying to push an idea based solely on your own personal preferences. If that’s the case, then feel free to post items for values more than 1% less than the current offering, and post Buy Orders for 1% more than the highest offer.

We can’t stop you from using the TP as you see fit, just as you can’t stop us from undercutting by 1 Copper.

I didn’t ignore you. It is negligible to anet, hence the reason they already use percentages for all other trading post aspects.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/bltc/Min-1-price-difference/3868663

Actually, it’s not negligible, since the tax is rounded to the nearest 1 Copper. So you countered your own argument.

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Posted by: Drago Ivansen.5398

Drago Ivansen.5398

Tier 4 fine mats (claws, scales, totems etc.) would be a prime example:
Current value between 2-5s, between 10-15k overall supply and their main supply source (various lootbags) could be worked the same way as i outlined in this post, which would greatly benefit from the 1% rule:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/bltc/Min-1-price-difference/first#post3867050

Can you please give me a meaningful reason now, why this 1% rule would benefit the whole playerbase and improve the status quo?

You are trying to fix something that is not broken…

Your example is flawed because same people that didn’t check the prices of more than one listed item before are not going to care later either. Those looking to make money on the TP are going to realize there is only 10 items in each pot. You also need to be able to sell all you items at 10s when there is a 6 silver gap and also hope people dont sell you items at 8s50c or buy your items listed at 5s. Either way using increments of 1% pools will neither help nor hurt your market control endeavors.

There is no reason not undercut a big ticket item by one copper. This effectively creates a stack where the last item list will be the first to sell. This goes against the intended trading post queue of the first item list should be the first to sell. The only way to prevent this abuse of the trading post is to make people think more about what an item is worth to them by removing the negligible undercut amount. There is still a potential for a stack like effect, but it would not be guaranteed to happen every time like it does today.

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Posted by: Wanze.8410

Wanze.8410

You keep ignoring the question at hand. Who is the 1 Copper difference negligible to? It seems that you’re trying to push an idea based solely on your own personal preferences. If that’s the case, then feel free to post items for values more than 1% less than the current offering, and post Buy Orders for 1% more than the highest offer.

We can’t stop you from using the TP as you see fit, just as you can’t stop us from undercutting by 1 Copper.

I didn’t ignore you. It is negligible to anet, hence the reason they already use percentages for all other trading post aspects.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/bltc/Min-1-price-difference/3868663

As you resorted from discussing 10g items to discussing copper value, while still failing to state 1 compelling reason why a 1% price difference for undercutting and more volatile markets that it results in benefit the general player base more than the status quo, i dont think there is any shame in leaving this topic.

Tin Foil [HATS]-Hardcore BLTC-PvP Guild
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.

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Posted by: Drago Ivansen.5398

Drago Ivansen.5398

Actually, it’s not negligible, since the tax is rounded to the nearest 1 Copper. So you countered your own argument.

Your point does not make sense and is unrelated to using percentages vs a flat rate. The value is round to the nearest copper (as a unit) not the nearest 1 copper as a value, otherwise all number would round to 1 copper.

I realize you are a troll please try to be more constructive while doing so.

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Posted by: Drago Ivansen.5398

Drago Ivansen.5398

As you resorted from discussing 10g items to discussing copper value, while still failing to state 1 compelling reason why a 1% price difference for undercutting and more volatile markets that it results in benefit the general player base more than the status quo, i dont think there is any shame in leaving this topic.

This is the compelling reason…

There is no reason not undercut a big ticket item by one copper. This effectively creates a stack where the last item list will be the first to sell. This goes against the intended trading post queue of the first item list should be the first to sell.

… and what better reason than going against the intent of the developers

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Posted by: Drago Ivansen.5398

Drago Ivansen.5398

Has anyone found the link to the original post? perhaps that would be more insightful

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Posted by: Smooth Penguin.5294

Smooth Penguin.5294

Actually, it’s not negligible, since the tax is rounded to the nearest 1 Copper. So you countered your own argument.

Your point does not make sense and is unrelated to using percentages vs a flat rate. The value is round to the nearest copper (as a unit) not the nearest 1 copper as a value, otherwise all number would round to 1 copper.

I realize you are a troll please try to be more constructive while doing so.

How does it not make sense? If I sell something for 1 Copper less, the tax from the listing fee is rounded to the nearest 1 Copper. Last nite, I posted the same item with two different prices that were 1 Copper apart. The listing fee was 20 Silver and 19 Silver 99 Copper respectively.

So tell me again how 1 Copper isn’t negligible if the taxes can account for this?

In GW2, Trading Post plays you!

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Posted by: The Meat Wagon.7194

The Meat Wagon.7194

As you resorted from discussing 10g items to discussing copper value, while still failing to state 1 compelling reason why a 1% price difference for undercutting and more volatile markets that it results in benefit the general player base more than the status quo, i dont think there is any shame in leaving this topic.

This is the compelling reason…

There is no reason not undercut a big ticket item by one copper. This effectively creates a stack where the last item list will be the first to sell. This goes against the intended trading post queue of the first item list should be the first to sell.

… and what better reason than going against the intent of the developers

Is that their intent though? They have had 1.5 years to change it if it were their intent. I think the tp is working how they want it to. Why fix it if it isn’t broken?

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Posted by: Obtena.7952

Obtena.7952

It is relevant because 1c is negligible when dealing with 100’s of gold.

You can say it but you don’t explain why. Their is no non-academic argument that I can think of that would justify making the value of the minimum bid increment depend on the value of the item being sold. Please explain how this would make the game better.

(edited by Obtena.7952)

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Posted by: Drago Ivansen.5398

Drago Ivansen.5398

How does it not make sense? If I sell something for 1 Copper less, the tax from the listing fee is rounded to the nearest 1 Copper. Last nite, I posted the same item with two different prices that were 1 Copper apart. The listing fee was 20 Silver and 19 Silver 99 Copper respectively.

So tell me again how 1 Copper isn’t negligible if the taxes can account for this?

Just so you can understand what negligible mean, even though I feel like I should created a new thread for this.

The following are examples of what is and is not negligible.

When I list an Item for 20 copper I pay 1 copper in listing fees, 1 copper here is very relevant here and is not negligible. When you list an item for 4 gold the listing fee will be 20 silver. The reason it is 20 silver and not 1 copper like the previous sale is because in this case 1 copper is negligible. For a 10 gold item, I would change my listing every time I was undercut by 1 copper because a 1 copper listing fee is negligible.

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Posted by: Drago Ivansen.5398

Drago Ivansen.5398

It is relevant because 1c is negligible when dealing with 100’s of gold.

You can say it but you don’t explain why. Their is no non-academic argument that I can think of to make the value of the minimum bid increment depend on the value of the item being sold. Please explain how this would make the game better.

See here…

There is no reason not undercut a big ticket item by one copper. This effectively creates a stack where the last item list will be the first to sell. This goes against the intended trading post queue of the first item list should be the first to sell.

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Posted by: Obtena.7952

Obtena.7952

There is no reason not undercut a big ticket item by one copper.

That doesn’t mean we should prevent people from doing it though does it? Again, your whole argument is for protectism; you want to remove risk for people that play on the market. Other than your opinion that there is no reason to do it (which is not true), your not telling us why this shouldn’t be allowed and how restricting it would improve the game; your argument is purely academic.

This simply isn’t compelling enough to change it. If people want to expose themselves to the risk of the markets, that’s their choice. There isn’t a reason to reduce their conscientious exposure to those risks.

(edited by Obtena.7952)

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Posted by: The Meat Wagon.7194

The Meat Wagon.7194

How does it not make sense? If I sell something for 1 Copper less, the tax from the listing fee is rounded to the nearest 1 Copper. Last nite, I posted the same item with two different prices that were 1 Copper apart. The listing fee was 20 Silver and 19 Silver 99 Copper respectively.

So tell me again how 1 Copper isn’t negligible if the taxes can account for this?

Just so you can understand what negligible mean, even though I feel like I should created a new thread for this.

The following are examples of what is and is not negligible.

When I list an Item for 20 copper I pay 1 copper in listing fees, 1 copper here is very relevant here and is not negligible. When you list an item for 4 gold the listing fee will be 20 silver. The reason it is 20 silver and not 1 copper like the previous sale is because in this case 1 copper is negligible. For a 10 gold item, I would change my listing every time I was undercut by 1 copper because a 1 copper listing fee is negligible.

To you it is negligible, but not to somebody else. You are using a subjective measure of what negligible is.

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Posted by: Wanze.8410

Wanze.8410

As you resorted from discussing 10g items to discussing copper value, while still failing to state 1 compelling reason why a 1% price difference for undercutting and more volatile markets that it results in benefit the general player base more than the status quo, i dont think there is any shame in leaving this topic.

This is the compelling reason…

There is no reason not undercut a big ticket item by one copper. This effectively creates a stack where the last item list will be the first to sell. This goes against the intended trading post queue of the first item list should be the first to sell.

… and what better reason than going against the intent of the developers

Its not the people that didnt check before, im worried about, its other tp players like me, that i am worried about. As those players dont have any way to check, how much items were posted between 5 and 10 silver before and after my endeavor, they are less likely to jump on my gold train.

By analyzing at which days of the week demand is higher than supply and vice versa, i minimize the risk of getting my listings and orders only filled when i want to.
You are right, its not guaranteed, i give you that much. But profit is never guaranteed on the tp.
And whats a big ticket item? at what value does it start? this topic is about a 1% rule in general, not only on items above a certain value. And even for an item worth 100g, there is still a big reason to undercut by a copper because it puts you first in line. If you got undercut by a copper, you maybe should have posted at a lower price or you just wait until both listings are bought.

I have many more ways, i could use to gain more profits, if this 1% rule would be implemented. If your goal is to make the rich a little richer while on cruise control, by all means, go ahead and keep advocating it. I take the extra profit.

Tin Foil [HATS]-Hardcore BLTC-PvP Guild
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.

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Posted by: Drago Ivansen.5398

Drago Ivansen.5398

To you it is negligible, but not to somebody else. You are using a subjective measure of what negligible is.

To anet it is negligible otherwise taxes and listing fee would be a fixed rate.

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Posted by: Obtena.7952

Obtena.7952

To you it is negligible, but not to somebody else. You are using a subjective measure of what negligible is.

To anet it is negligible otherwise taxes and listing fee would be a fixed rate.

No, Anet doesn’t think 1c is negligible because taxes and fees ARE calculated down to the 1c increment, regardless of the value of the item being sold. You’re making an illogical association here. Relative fees and taxes do NOT equate to Anet thinking 1c is a negligible amount of money. Just saying it doesn’t make it fact.

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Posted by: The Meat Wagon.7194

The Meat Wagon.7194

To you it is negligible, but not to somebody else. You are using a subjective measure of what negligible is.

To anet it is negligible otherwise taxes and listing fee would be a fixed rate.

Taxes and the listing fee are not the same thing as bidding or setting a price for an item. Anet allows 1c increments on those so it is clearly a conscious design decision.

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Posted by: Drago Ivansen.5398

Drago Ivansen.5398

No, Anet doesn’t think 1c is negligible because taxes and fees ARE calculated down to the 1c increment. You’re making an illogical association here. Relative fees and taxes do NOT equate to Anet thinking 1c is a negligible amount of money. Just saying it doesn’t make it fact.

Again copper as a unit of measure and 1 copper as a value are different things and I already exemplified where 1 copper is of value and i exemplified where it is not.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/bltc/Min-1-price-difference/3868980

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Posted by: Drago Ivansen.5398

Drago Ivansen.5398

Taxes and the listing fee are not the same thing as bidding or setting a price for an item. Anet allows 1c increments on those so it is clearly a conscious design decision.

The way something is, is never an argument for a conscious design decision. I welcome a dev to say otherwise.

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Posted by: Wanze.8410

Wanze.8410

How does it not make sense? If I sell something for 1 Copper less, the tax from the listing fee is rounded to the nearest 1 Copper. Last nite, I posted the same item with two different prices that were 1 Copper apart. The listing fee was 20 Silver and 19 Silver 99 Copper respectively.

So tell me again how 1 Copper isn’t negligible if the taxes can account for this?

Just so you can understand what negligible mean, even though I feel like I should created a new thread for this.

The following are examples of what is and is not negligible.

When I list an Item for 20 copper I pay 1 copper in listing fees, 1 copper here is very relevant here and is not negligible. When you list an item for 4 gold the listing fee will be 20 silver. The reason it is 20 silver and not 1 copper like the previous sale is because in this case 1 copper is negligible. For a 10 gold item, I would change my listing every time I was undercut by 1 copper because a 1 copper listing fee is negligible.

Nobody is arguing 1 copper listing fees disregarding the value of the item, its always 5%.

What you mean is negligible, is the 1c less profit, if you undercut by 1c on a 100g item.
I think we all can agree to that.

However, what is not negligible, is the function of this 1c undercut, putting you first in line.

Tin Foil [HATS]-Hardcore BLTC-PvP Guild
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.

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Posted by: Obtena.7952

Obtena.7952

No, Anet doesn’t think 1c is negligible because taxes and fees ARE calculated down to the 1c increment. You’re making an illogical association here. Relative fees and taxes do NOT equate to Anet thinking 1c is a negligible amount of money. Just saying it doesn’t make it fact.

Again copper as a unit of measure and 1 copper as a value are different things and I already exemplified where 1 copper is of value and i exemplified where it is not.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/bltc/Min-1-price-difference/3868980

That’s nice but your conclusion that Anet things 1c is negligible based on relative instead of absolute Fees and taxes is false. There is no association between the two. I would argue the opposite since they still calculate your fees and taxes down to the last copper even on the highest priced items.

The minimum increment, regardless of what value it is has a purpose in setting sell prices. Therefore, it’s not relevant what that absolute increment value is. Since I suspect Anet doesn’t want to un-necessarily restrict sellers for no reason, they set that minimum increment to the lowest possible monetary unit in the game.

Until you propose a non-academic reason why 1c SHOULDN’T be the minimum value, other than ‘there is no reason to do it’, you really don’t have an argument to bother with.

(edited by Obtena.7952)

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Posted by: Wanze.8410

Wanze.8410

Taxes and the listing fee are not the same thing as bidding or setting a price for an item. Anet allows 1c increments on those so it is clearly a conscious design decision.

The way something is, is never an argument for a conscious design decision. I welcome a dev to say otherwise.

So they were unconscious, when they implemented the trading post?

Tin Foil [HATS]-Hardcore BLTC-PvP Guild
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.

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Posted by: The Meat Wagon.7194

The Meat Wagon.7194

Taxes and the listing fee are not the same thing as bidding or setting a price for an item. Anet allows 1c increments on those so it is clearly a conscious design decision.

The way something is, is never an argument for a conscious design decision. I welcome a dev to say otherwise.

So they didn’t design it that way? Somebody better let anet know.

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Posted by: Drago Ivansen.5398

Drago Ivansen.5398

Its not the people that didnt check before, im worried about, its other tp players like me, that i am worried about. As those players dont have any way to check, how much items were posted between 5 and 10 silver before and after my endeavor, they are less likely to jump on my gold train.

By analyzing at which days of the week demand is higher than supply and vice versa, i minimize the risk of getting my listings and orders only filled when i want to.
You are right, its not guaranteed, i give you that much. But profit is never guaranteed on the tp.
And whats a big ticket item? at what value does it start? this topic is about a 1% rule in general, not only on items above a certain value. And even for an item worth 100g, there is still a big reason to undercut by a copper because it puts you first in line. If you got undercut by a copper, you maybe should have posted at a lower price or you just wait until both listings are bought.

I have many more ways, i could use to gain more profits, if this 1% rule would be implemented. If your goal is to make the rich a little richer while on cruise control, by all means, go ahead and keep advocating it. I take the extra profit.

I don’t mind the rich getting richer as long as they follow the intended queue like structure of the TP and not create an effective stack. I guarantee the trading post will break down as inflation increases.

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Posted by: Drago Ivansen.5398

Drago Ivansen.5398

So they didn’t design it that way? Somebody better let anet know.

…hence this forum.

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Posted by: Obtena.7952

Obtena.7952

I guarantee the trading post will break down as inflation increases.

Actually, as inflation increases, those 1c are going to give a finer resolution for selling in the market. Your guarantee is a nice piece of fear mongering but as long as inflation is under control, I don’t think we have to worry about protecting people against listing items for the prices they want.

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Posted by: Drago Ivansen.5398

Drago Ivansen.5398

However, what is not negligible, is the function of this 1c undercut, putting you first in line.

I am arguing that this is unintended and undesirable and would like a dev to say otherwise.

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Posted by: Schizo.1375

Schizo.1375

Well then you’ve warned them and we all thank you for it. Good job and I’m sure they’ll get right on it. I motion this thread now be closed. Unless the participants would like to have another go around the circle?

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Posted by: Obtena.7952

Obtena.7952

WARNING: Anet, you have unknowingly designed, coded and maintained a game where the minimum offer increment on TP is 1c. This has occured over the timescale of many years. Despite the severity and duration of this clearly unintended value, you appear to be unaware of your many decisions that led up to this mistake. Please take measures to address this critical oversight. It is a detriment to all the players who want to play the market with minimal risk. Thanks.

:Rolleyes:

(edited by Obtena.7952)

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Posted by: Drago Ivansen.5398

Drago Ivansen.5398

Outside the useful comments of Wanze.8410, I would appreciate any other snarky comments be left out of this forum.

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Posted by: Wanze.8410

Wanze.8410

Outside the useful comments of Wanze.8410, I would appreciate any other snarky comments be left out of this forum.

Its official:

I won the Trading Post!

John Smith, grant me a mount.

Tin Foil [HATS]-Hardcore BLTC-PvP Guild
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.

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Posted by: Drago Ivansen.5398

Drago Ivansen.5398

To refocus the thread:

The point of contention is how a trading post designed around a first in first out queue that effectively degrades to a last in first out stack at higher values would be better off forcing users to respect the queue design by using a percentage bid increment vs a flat rate.

e.g. current sell bid is 100 gold next lowest available sell bid would be 99g and similar on the buying side. Current buy order is 50 gold, next available buy bid is 50g50s

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Posted by: Smooth Penguin.5294

Smooth Penguin.5294

How does it not make sense? If I sell something for 1 Copper less, the tax from the listing fee is rounded to the nearest 1 Copper. Last nite, I posted the same item with two different prices that were 1 Copper apart. The listing fee was 20 Silver and 19 Silver 99 Copper respectively.

So tell me again how 1 Copper isn’t negligible if the taxes can account for this?

Just so you can understand what negligible mean, even though I feel like I should created a new thread for this.

The following are examples of what is and is not negligible.

When I list an Item for 20 copper I pay 1 copper in listing fees, 1 copper here is very relevant here and is not negligible. When you list an item for 4 gold the listing fee will be 20 silver. The reason it is 20 silver and not 1 copper like the previous sale is because in this case 1 copper is negligible. For a 10 gold item, I would change my listing every time I was undercut by 1 copper because a 1 copper listing fee is negligible.

I still don’t understand. 1 Copper listing fees on a 20 Copper item is still a tax. Same was 20 Silver listing fees on a 4 Gold item. And since the Trading Post was set up to not only provide players as a secure means of trade, but also as a Gold Sink, isn’t the end result of your items being taxed what Anet intended?

Therefore, if I were to place a Dusk that’s 1 Copper less than the currently listed one, I’m still being taxed. If I placed two Dusks for 1 Copper less each, I’m still being hit with taxes on both, which removes Gold from the economy.

So I don’t see what the problem here is. Aren’t you being unreasonable by assuming what’s “negligible” and what isn’t when you don’t even work for Anet? It’s like you’re trying to advocate a punishment on me for selling items for prices I deem valid.

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Posted by: Obtena.7952

Obtena.7952

The point of contention is how a trading post designed around a first in first out queue that effectively degrades to a last in first out stack at higher values would be better off forcing users to respect the queue design by using a percentage bid increment vs a flat rate.

The queue design is respected regardless if the bid increment is absolute or relative … so again, your not proposing anything that addresses any ‘disrespect’ for how the TP is intended to work. The only real issue here is your perception of how your ideas of what is reasonable, negligible and meaningful should be considered.

(edited by Obtena.7952)

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Posted by: Wanze.8410

Wanze.8410

However, what is not negligible, is the function of this 1c undercut, putting you first in line.

I am arguing that this is unintended and undesirable and would like a dev to say otherwise.

I am baffled that you actually think this is the case and they havent done anything about it. But if you are looking for any confirmation, i am sure you will find one, direct or indirect in here:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/members/John-Smith-4610/showposts

I will close shop for the night.

Tin Foil [HATS]-Hardcore BLTC-PvP Guild
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.

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Posted by: Drago Ivansen.5398

Drago Ivansen.5398

The one place I expected so resistance is how this idea breaks down when placing bid between the multiple already existing bids (which I believe shows all the previous post were by tp flippers)

For example:

Current sell bids:

1 @ 100g
1 @ 99g
1 @ 97g50s

I would not be able to sell between the 99g and 97g50s values because 1% less than 99g is 98g10s, but 97g50s which already exists would then break the rules.

I believe this could be fixed by having preset bid buckets for all items, so players no longer need to fat finger a price and just choose a predetermined price point.

For example (and I did not figure this out from 1c up)

1@100g
10@99g
0@98g01s
1@97g02s

This would allow for an open bucket at the 98g price mark that follows the rules

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Posted by: Obtena.7952

Obtena.7952

The mechanics aren’t the problem. It’s simply the fact that it doesn’t need to be fixed at the expense of the flexibility of the TP market. I’m still trying to figure out WHY this is even a problem. The FIFO Que system works as is, with a fixed min increment. This is your complaint yes? … What IS the problem here that is trying to be solved with these ‘buckets’?

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Posted by: The Meat Wagon.7194

The Meat Wagon.7194

If you sold everything at the highest bid price Drago, you wouldn’t have any problems of being undersold. That solves your problem without negatively affecting the rest of us.

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Posted by: Drago Ivansen.5398

Drago Ivansen.5398

This proves the intent…

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/bltc/ALERT-Major-Flaw-in-the-BLTP-System/3805970

So the only comments that are still necessary are any that can prove that the markets doesn’t degrade to a LIFO at “high values”

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Posted by: The Meat Wagon.7194

The Meat Wagon.7194

This proves the intent…

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/bltc/ALERT-Major-Flaw-in-the-BLTP-System/3805970

So the only comments that are still necessary are any that can prove that the markets doesn’t degrade to a LIFO at “high values”

Did you read that entire forum? It does not prove what you are saying it does.

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Posted by: Smooth Penguin.5294

Smooth Penguin.5294

This proves the intent…

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/bltc/ALERT-Major-Flaw-in-the-BLTP-System/3805970

So the only comments that are still necessary are any that can prove that the markets doesn’t degrade to a LIFO at “high values”

You posted a link to a comment that verifies the TP acts on a FIFO basis. What does that have to do with 1 Copper undercuts?

In GW2, Trading Post plays you!

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Posted by: Wanze.8410

Wanze.8410

This proves the intent…

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/bltc/ALERT-Major-Flaw-in-the-BLTP-System/3805970

So the only comments that are still necessary are any that can prove that the markets doesn’t degrade to a LIFO at “high values”

For multiple listings at the same value, its FIFO.

For listings of different value, is Lowest In, First Out.

Tin Foil [HATS]-Hardcore BLTC-PvP Guild
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.

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Posted by: Smooth Penguin.5294

Smooth Penguin.5294

This proves the intent…

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/bltc/ALERT-Major-Flaw-in-the-BLTP-System/3805970

So the only comments that are still necessary are any that can prove that the markets doesn’t degrade to a LIFO at “high values”

For multiple listings at the same value, its FIFO.

For listings of different value, is Lowest In, First Out.

Usually, LIFO = Last In, First Out. But your definition works well in this case. The lowest priced item is sold first.

I think in his mind, the prices look similar, so he believes his items should be sold first, regardless if his is priced higher.

In GW2, Trading Post plays you!

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Posted by: Obtena.7952

Obtena.7952

This proves the intent…

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/bltc/ALERT-Major-Flaw-in-the-BLTP-System/3805970

So the only comments that are still necessary are any that can prove that the markets doesn’t degrade to a LIFO at “high values”

That thread indicates Anet confirms a FIFO TP system. How that is related by a change from an absolute min increment to a relative one is still not clear. So please again, tell us the compelling argument why we should lose more margin than we do now to get the same opportunity to be first in Que for selling?

(edited by Obtena.7952)