Guild Wars 2

These two minis were introduced as Black Lion Chests drops for the living story where the new Twilight Arbor Aetherblade path was released on October 1st.

Since that time these minis have been continuously dropping from BLCs at a relatively high rate and have saturated the market to the point where people who are interested in the collectable are no longer buying it on the Trading Post.

The minis are now being used due to their relatively low cost as a gambling chip for exotic minis in the Mystic Forge. Considering how careful I have observed ANET’s behavior to be regarding keeping seemingly innocuous items from having massive effects on the economy, it is confusing to me how these minis (I was gone for this but I heard it happened before with the Holographic Risen Knight) can still be put into the Mystic Forge. Especially since the Holographic Risen Knight supposedly had its rarity changed specifically for this reason.

I understand since the announcement of elimination of Set 1 mini packs that there has been a large amount of speculation and resulting price shifting among Set 1 and certain other minis; sometimes as much as 500%. However, the insane depreciation in value of the majority of trade-able rare and exotic minis is now due in large part to the presence of a massive, largely undesired supply of Mini Holo Scarlets and Caithes.

The main reason that I can confidently make this claim regarding these 2 minis having a now overwhelming effect on the larger mini market is that the effects can now be seen in every single trade-able rare/exotic mini from Set 1 and 2 as well as certain Special Category minis with recipes (Mini Steamrider etc). You can now make a mystic forge bet using rare minis for a chance at an exotic mini for ~12g using Caithe/Holo Scarlet. This is a fine market mechanism for bringing the majority of exotic minis closer to the 60g mark (the average cost of an exotic return in the 1 in 5 Mystic forge on a 12g bet). However, the drops in price we are seeing is reaching exotic set prices that haven’t existed since October of last year.

In attempts to create these coveted and “no longer available” Set 1 exotics, Set 2 exotics (less desirable byproducts) are down to 30g. “Failed” gambles with rare results are causing Set 2 rares to drop below 3g. Minis made with recipes including Set minis have dropped to 16g as of today but that is only because they are lagging behind the dropping cost of their components and will likely drop to 10g in the coming weeks. Minis are depreciating by as much as 4 gold per day since the day of mini Scaret/Caithe introduction (see Mini Enraged Twisted Nightmare).

I fear this may be interpreted as a thread whining about the dropping value of items in my collection or devaluation in the economy. That is not the point I am making.

Please consider that Mini Holo Scarlet and Caithe were introduced as BLC drops 4 living stories ago. Since that time they have continued to drop at a high rate and are still usable in the Mystic Forge. This is having a drastic effect on the mini economy simply due to the sheer volume of these minis coming from daily opened BLC. For some people a wild excess of this mini is no doubt leaving what they see as little other option than to put them in the Mystic Forge.

Please consider changing the rarity of these minis or reducing their availability so that their Mystic Forge mechanic does not continue to contribute so significantly to trade-able mini prices.

I agree this is terrible for miniature collectors. My collection basically lost hundreds of gold in value because of Anets stupid decision. I own every miniature except the “Miniature Dolyak” so I am damaged quite badly by Anets blindness towards this issue.

I wonder why I am still collecting miniatures. They are a hassle to use and Anet keeps sabotaging the value of my miniatures for absolutly no reason. And now there is even a 20% discount on miniatures from Set 2, thought considering the rock bottom miniature prices many will make use of it.

Hundreds? If you had all minis your collection lost like a 1000g in value lewl.

I didnt look that closely to it, that would make me even more sad. Its also sad John Smith never answers to threads about miniatures.

If you are a collector why do you care about the value of the collection? Are you going to sell it? As a collector I want to have the complete set, money and or their value isn’t really that important to me. Cheaper is better in fact.

I think it was a smart move, too. That said, I can imagine these disappearing from chests on the 12th. It’s gone on quite a while now. I do like that those asking to receive something of value when opening BL chests (when not receiving scraps/tickets) got exactly that. That’s a good development.

KOPPER.1458:

If you are a collector why do you care about the value of the collection? Are you going to sell it? As a collector I want to have the complete set, money and or their value isn’t really that important to me. Cheaper is better in fact.

Of course I care about the value. Why should collectors not care about value? In real life collectors value value, too. There is no challange to collecting cheap and accessable items.
Do you think people would care even half as much about the Mauritius stamps (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mauritius_%22Post_Office%22_stamps) in RL if they would be worth 5€ instead?

Currently I can afford any miniature on the market in a day or two of farming. Thats simply not very interesting to me in the long run if they are all this cheap.

Buttercup.5871:

I think it was a smart move, too. That said, I can imagine these disappearing from chests on the 12th. It’s gone on quite a while now. I do like that those asking to receive something of value when opening BL chests (when not receiving scraps/tickets) got exactly that. That’s a good development.

And I think its a smart move that Silver Doubloons are staying as rare as they are.

Malediktus.9250:

Buttercup.5871:

I think it was a smart move, too. That said, I can imagine these disappearing from chests on the 12th. It’s gone on quite a while now. I do like that those asking to receive something of value when opening BL chests (when not receiving scraps/tickets) got exactly that. That’s a good development.

And I think its a smart move that Silver Doubloons are staying as rare as they are.

Strange, as these have nothing to do with this thread; they have to do with your opinion of a thread I started elsewhere. It’s rather sad: time and again you show you can only enjoy the things you have (juggernaut, minis) if others don’t or can’t get them. If that is the prerequisite for your entertainment, you’re going to have a hard time in life.

I enjoy earning stuff not everyone can get in a day or two, what is wrong with it? GW2 is about horizontal progression ie. cosmetics. So I see no problem in having extremly expensive visual stuff. Exactly why I own Juggernaut, Eternity and all minis except the not yet available Dolyak.

normal player dont buy minis or care bout them in this game. Only reseller care bout.

arenanet wanna change this – simple

and this minis never had this value – only reseller made the price.

Your post makes no sense. Of course they had a value because they were connected to the gem price.

No loss exists until it is realized.

I agree that these two minis are a slap in the face to the collectible nature of them, as a whole. Seeing that they arrived shortly after ArenaNET’s public announcement of the removal of Set 1 from the gem store, I don’t see how this comes across as anything more than the company’s attempt to force the price of the minis into a space which they feel is appropriate, vs. letting the market decide (isn’t that Mr. Smith’s preference?)

That said, I also agree with Diamondgirl’s final statement. Unfortunately, making the minis drop so drastically in price will permanently limit the reduction of loss, due to all existing players having easy access to the items and limiting the future market size.

I have the feeling that if Mr. Smith was comfortable with the bludgeoning the mini market has taken, he would be speaking in favour of it. In the past, I don’t remember seeing him too concerned about whether he was making friends with his statements… so this implies to me that something or someone has limited his voice in the matter.

Why would anyone at anet care about the cost of minis on the tp? It’s pure cosmetics. More important is that people are buying bl keys.

Lalocat.6793:

Why would anyone at anet care about the cost of minis on the tp? It’s pure cosmetics. More important is that people are buying bl keys.

Because there is no point to buy mini pack set 2 packs if you can get them much cheaper in other ways.

“Of course I care about the value. Why should collectors not care about value? In real life collectors value value, too.”

I suppose this is true. I don’t care of the value once I have the item. It’s my collection, I have no plans on selling it. Perhaps I am a poor collector then.

Many years ago I used to play and collect Magic the gathering cards. I made it a point to collect power 9 long before they were selling for hundreds of dollars, I was lucky to be in the game early. I still have several sets and after reading this post I went to look up their value… All I can say is, tempting to sell but I love that collection and the memories it holds for me.

A collector often wouldn’t care about the value of items they’ve already collected (as someone mentioned, a loss doesn’t exist until it is realized). However, if a major reason why the collector collects is (for lack of a better word) to showboat, it makes sense for them to be concerned about the value. It’s not so much they’re worried about how much their collection is worth; it’s that they’re worried how easily someone else could complete the same task as they did. Some collectors collect for personal joy, some collect for completionism, but many place a lot of pride and value in the fact that they have something most others don’t.

I don’t think that true collectors care about the value of their collection. Whether it’s minis, armor skins, achievements etc., all that matters to them is that there’s a list that is incomplete, and it MUST be filled. It’s the “gotta catch them all” mentality that drives a collector above all, although individual collectors might choose to focus only on specific parts of a collection. (For instance, my goal is to complete all PvE achievements. As I do not PvP or WvW, I’ve been completely ignoring WvW Season 1, making it the first Living Story category that I will not complete.)

If you really do feel like your collection is ruined just because they’ve gone down in value, I suspect that you’ve only bought/built your collection simply as a way to show off your wealth to other players, not for true collecting’s sake.

Zaxares.5419:

I don’t think that true collectors care about the value of their collection. Whether it’s minis, armor skins, achievements etc., all that matters to them is that there’s a list that is incomplete, and it MUST be filled.

Really?

There’s more types of collectors than just OCD completionists.

Truly obsessive collectors can be OCD completionists, yes, although not all are. All the same, I maintain that collectors are people who gather a collection to HAVE that collection. The collection is the goal; its value as perceived by others is irrelevant.

Zaxares.5419:

Truly obsessive collectors can be OCD completionists, yes, although not all are. All the same, I maintain that collectors are people who gather a collection to HAVE that collection. The collection is the goal; its value as perceived by others is irrelevant.

You can “maintain” that all you like, but no true forum poster would make that claim.

As I noted, there’s many people who collect things because they like having things that others don’t have or that makes them stand out. Look no further than legendary weapons in this game (or their equivalent in other games) to find some proof of that. How proud are people to be the first to complete something, or to be in a relatively exclusive group? If the cost of minis fall, the small group of people who have managed to collect many or all of them are no longer so exclusive. If you can buy a full collection for 50% less than you could before, it’s not really much of an accomplishment.

“but no true forum poster would make that claim.”

Don’t understand this at all. I do not care how much my collection is worth. I am not going to sell it. It’s a little annoying to me that all mini’s aren’t account bound on pickup so you can’t resell them. However trading is fun as well and make getting the collection that much easier. So I understand why it’s there.

Put so much work into collecting them. It is so depressing. I have no legendary or so, I dont like to farm. I put in pretty much every bit of gold I had. And now :/ Never bet on anet…

Syeria.4812:

Look no further than legendary weapons in this game (or their equivalent in other games) to find some proof of that. How proud are people to be the first to complete something, or to be in a relatively exclusive group? If the cost of minis fall, the small group of people who have managed to collect many or all of them are no longer so exclusive. If you can buy a full collection for 50% less than you could before, it’s not really much of an accomplishment.

Then they’re not really “collecting”. What they are doing is “showing off”. Having an expensive item, whether it’s a Legendary or a mini or a title or anything, to show how unique and special you are is basically just a way to say to others, “Look at me! Look at how rich/awesome I am!”

These also tend to be the same players who complain when ANet makes it easier to obtain rare items, whether by changes to drop rates or recipes, or returns of previously exclusive items. They’re upset not because their collection is no longer valid, but because they’re no longer special or unique.

And that’s fair enough. People like to feel rare and special, and they are entitled to feel proud of having worked hard to achieve something. But they also need to be aware that exclusivity is eroded by time; change WILL happen, and it is almost always to the benefit of the masses. And despite this, it does not diminish the accomplishment of the early birds. Back in GW1, I earned my Legendary Survivor the hard way. I brought my Paragon through all three campaigns, doing Normal Mode and Hard Mode, earning his title “legitimately”. Then Eye of the North came out, and the LS title became trivialised by Fronis dungeon runs.

Was I upset that there was suddenly a whole bunch more Legendary Survivors running around? Heck no. I had my title way before others did, and I have the satisfaction of knowing that I earned it the hard way. That is something nobody can ever take away from me.

It’s the same thing with the early adopters or those who paid extra to finish their collection early. What you paid for is the ability to lord your specialness over other people before they caught up, and you got exactly that. Crying that it’s now cheaper/easier for others to catch up just makes you look petulant and childish.

Zaxares.5419:

Then they’re not really “collecting”. What they are doing is “showing off”. Having an expensive item, whether it’s a Legendary or a mini or a title or anything, to show how unique and special you are is basically just a way to say to others, “Look at me! Look at how rich/awesome I am!”

Still?

They are accumulating the item into a collection, therefore they are collecting. Just because you don’t like them or their actions doesn’t change them or what they’re doing. There’s plenty of legitimate reasons to be concerned about pricing changes to items.

It is collecting for sure. Most MMOs though do not allow you to sell your collections. We simply collect for different reasons.

Syeria.4812:

They are accumulating the item into a collection, therefore they are collecting. Just because you don’t like them or their actions doesn’t change them or what they’re doing. There’s plenty of legitimate reasons to be concerned about pricing changes to items.

We’ll have to agree to disagree on whether or not their actions count as collecting. You think they do, I think they don’t, and we’re not gonna change each other’s minds about it. :P

Either way, the lesson to take away from all of this is that the market is always in flux. Getting attached to something because of its monetary value is a losing proposition because of the risk of depreciation (item is no longer BiS), increased supply (ANet ups drop rates) or just changing cultural values (you’re wearing that? That’s SO 2012). Unless you’re investing, it’s best if you buy something because you LIKE it, not because it’s expensive.

Zaxares.5419:

Syeria.4812:

They are accumulating the item into a collection, therefore they are collecting. Just because you don’t like them or their actions doesn’t change them or what they’re doing. There’s plenty of legitimate reasons to be concerned about pricing changes to items.

We’ll have to agree to disagree on whether or not their actions count as collecting. You think they do, I think they don’t, and we’re not gonna change each other’s minds about it. :P

Either way, the lesson to take away from all of this is that the market is always in flux. Getting attached to something because of its monetary value is a losing proposition because of the risk of depreciation (item is no longer BiS), increased supply (ANet ups drop rates) or just changing cultural values (you’re wearing that? That’s SO 2012). Unless you’re investing, it’s best if you buy something because you LIKE it, not because it’s expensive.

It’s not a matter of “agree[ing] to disagree.” Your statement is literally “the person who is [definition of collecting] isn’t collecting because I think he’s a doo doo head.”

KOPPER.1458:

“but no true forum poster would make that claim.”

Don’t understand this at all.

It’s a reference to:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

Essentially, it’s a person saying “if you don’t do something the way I think it should be done, then you aren’t doing it right.” In this case, the poster is saying that people who collect items for any reason except what he believes they should be collecting for is not really a collector.

A collector is a person who collects something. Their motivation for doing so is irrelevant. The poster may not consider them “real” collectors, but that doesn’t give him the authority to redefine the term.

No, that’s not what I’m saying at all. I’m saying that the person who’s collecting expensive items just because they’re expensive isn’t truly “collecting”. He’s just grabbing expensive stuff to show off how wealthy he is. If somebody bought up the following expensive stuff in real life:

1. Ferrari
2. Private Jet
3. A $1 million diamond necklace
4. $3 million mansion
5. $500k painting
6. Pet white tiger

Would you say he’s a collector? There’s absolutely no connection between his purchases other than the fact that they’re all expensive. That’s basically what somebody that’s decked out in a Legendary, Ascended gear, and showing off an expensive mini is. He’s not a collector. He just wants the most expensive stuff to show off to other people.

If someone complains that his “collection” is ruined because its value is now less than what he originally paid for it, obviously he cared more about the monetary value of it than as an actual collection, which is in no way affected by the fact that it’s now worth less.

Zaxares.5419:

No, that’s not what I’m saying at all. I’m saying that the person who’s collecting expensive items just because they’re expensive isn’t truly “collecting”. He’s just grabbing expensive stuff to show off how wealthy he is. If somebody bought up the following expensive stuff in real life:

If someone bought Mr. Sparkles on eBay for the sole purpose of saying “I have a Mr. Sparkles and you don’t! Ha!” then, yes, he is probably not interested in collecting. Someone who has all the expensive minis is collecting them, whether you agree with it or not. You’re tarring a lot of people with the same brush.

Yes, I’ll call them a collector in the sense that they “own a collection”. All the same, I still feel that if you think your collection is ruined just because it’s worth less now than what you paid for it, maybe you should re-evaluate your motivation for collecting because the price of your collection can and will change in unpredictable ways.

So, do the mini caithe and the mini scarlet still drop from Black Lion chests?

By the price it looks like these are still in the BL chests. Can anyone confirm?
It really is turning into a “two minis to rule them all”. It was a good idea, absolutely, but for this long? Having had little to no reason thus far to doubt John’s infinite wisdom, I suspect there is a good reason and a long-term plan behind all of this?

Still in the chests. Guildie got one yesterday. Caithe.

Sooooo these are still in the chests I presume? I mean they’re really clubbing on this market with a blunt hammer at this point. It was fun while it lasted and all, and sure it was a good move at first, but now it’s just bunkers.

It’s almost like that Matrix movie, except here it’s Caithe and Scarlet basically copying themselves infinitely. That whole market is in complete shambles now.

yes they are still in the chest. Got one again yesterday.

For shame! For shame..

We all should know by now how little anet cares about us miniature collectors. They just see us as another cow to milk while offering very little support in return.

New set of Wintersday pets are coming out soon though. That Puppy is perhaps the first ever minipet I MUST get.

2 packs 1k gems for 4 minis. I admit that are cute though.

I really hate people complaing about the GOLD value of their minis, we came far from the gw1 love to have minis as pets and toys for our colections, not some cheap lame excuse for value as a gold barganing chip, I am willing to bet you never love your minis and like to have them around as a real idea of pet, like it was the purpose of it and not some walking gold booster.

JanNier Kryn Yaren.7968:

I really hate people complaing about the GOLD value of their minis, we came far from the gw1 love to have minis as pets and toys for our colections, not some cheap lame excuse for value as a gold barganing chip, I am willing to bet you never love your minis and like to have them around as a real idea of pet, like it was the purpose of it and not some walking gold booster.

And I do hate people who tell others what a proper collector is.

Zaxares.5419:

New set of Wintersday pets are coming out soon though. That Puppy is perhaps the first ever minipet I MUST get.

What puppy? Can you link the site.

Dare I hope it’s a fern hound puppy?

Nope, it’s a beagle puppy.

You get a good look at it in the Wintersday 2013 video. It was still unlisted when I last saw it, but you can probably find a link to it in the General forum.

Saturday—Minis 3-Pack Set 1
The coveted Minis 3-Pack Set 1 is making a one-day return! Not only is this the best place to pick up Minis from the original set, we’re selling bundles of 10 packs at an incredible 35% off!

oh dear. but I doubt many people will make use of the offer considering the current cheap prices.

Thanks to the big sale on keys yesterday, my lowish buy orders were all filled and I completed my collection (well mostly, still missing jackalop) and got my mini collector title. THANKS GNASHBLADE.

Mini scarlet was down to 1g60s at one point.

I hate Evon. Would vote for Kiel again any time. At least she doesnt make my minis worthless.

Shakes head…

It’s okay for weapon skins and precursors to be ridiculously expensive, but not minis.