Guild Wars 2

Wanze.8410:

laokoko.7403:

People only complain about flipping because “basically people get crap from adventure or farming” compare to flipping. If you can’t buy your way to “the ultimate rewards”, which is legendary etc, no one will be complaining.

And even if you can buy your way to the “ultimate rewards”, if the “price were stable”, no one will be complaining about flipping too.

And if flippers can’t take advantage of the buy order system from other player, or if there is an expire time on selling items, that’ll cut down the profit for flippers. Which in results might make adventure or farming more rewarding in comparison, no one will be complaining about flipping.

There is nothing wrong with flipping. It’s just flipping shouldn’t be so much more rewarding than the actual dungeon, pvp, or world events.

Just take your reward loot drops and sell them at the same value the flipper would and , BOOM, you make as much profit as the flipper.
What is so hard about it?

Stop saying this, I dont know if you are joking or what.
You will not make as much profit as the flipper, because the flipper doesnt need to gather anything. The limit on how much loot you can get based on time is real.

Flipper buys 5000 iron ore for 95 copper he sells them for 1.2 silver. he makes 7 copper X 5000 he makes 3.5 gold. actual work time put in would be hmm maybe 6 minutes?
he makes 7% profit.
in order to make 3.5 gold off of silver farmer has to gather 343.1 iron ore. At 3 ore per node, thats 114 nodes, if it takes him 2 minutes to find and farm a node, that means he takes 228 minutes, or 3.8 hours to make the same money, oh and i forgot to count the mining pick cost.

So yeah stop acting like flipping/merchanting is just profitable because they list higher. Its profitable because you dont have to actually spend time gathering anything. Flippers make money off of playing with numbers. Farmers make money off of grinding items.

not only that, but the farmer cant do anything else while he is farming, he is spending every moment doing his farm. His output is a direct equation that is based on how much he can gather in a specific time frame, and how much its worth.

The flipper can make as much as he can find ineffeciencies, and his capital allows him too. Just dont even compare them, or tell people to simply price higher, they wont get their hands on enough merchandise to increase their wealth, and their wealth growth potential doesnt improve as they get more money.

But how long, elapse time, does it take to fill the 5000 iron ore order and then sell all of them? Other buys and sellers can overcut the buys and undercut the sells. It could take hours or days for those orders to fill and then sold. If that time is included in your calculations then it’s quite possible that the silver farmer is making more gold per hour than your iron flipper.

Wanze.8410:

Thanks for proving my point. All the OP did was to complain about potential profits on the TP. If people want better reward structures, they should make suggestions towards it, not complain about something that cant be seen as a reward in the first place.

This thread is about the TP killing the fun of the game. Of course smart TP players are rewarded for their efforts, they get tons of gold and therefore any shiny they want because it’s almost all available in the TP. Only Vision Crystals force players to play the actual game to get their Ascended gear. The grind in this game is so excessive because of nerfing and RNG and THAT is what is spoiling the fun.

The lack of suggestions on how to fix this does not prove there is not a problem here. TP barons certainly don’t think there is a problem with all that gold in their pockets, and maybe that is how they have fun, but this is supposed to be Guild Wars, not Gold Wars. That is the point and clearly others agree.

Behellagh.1468:

But how long, elapse time, does it take to fill the 5000 iron ore order and then sell all of them? Other buys and sellers can overcut the buys and undercut the sells. It could take hours or days for those orders to fill and then sold. If that time is included in your calculations then it’s quite possible that the silver farmer is making more gold per hour than your iron flipper.

Exactly. The flipper IS limited by market inefficiencies and his capital, especially if all the farmers start selling at his price and NOT to him anymore.

Elric Of Melnibone.4781:

Wanze.8410:

Thanks for proving my point. All the OP did was to complain about potential profits on the TP. If people want better reward structures, they should make suggestions towards it, not complain about something that cant be seen as a reward in the first place.

This thread is about the TP killing the fun of the game. Of course smart TP players are rewarded for their efforts, they get tons of gold and therefore any shiny they want because it’s almost all available in the TP. Only Vision Crystals force players to play the actual game to get their Ascended gear. The grind in this game is so excessive because of nerfing and RNG and THAT is what is spoiling the fun.

The lack of suggestions on how to fix this does not prove there is not a problem here. TP barons certainly don’t think there is a problem with all that gold in their pockets, and maybe that is how they have fun, but this is supposed to be Guild Wars, not Gold Wars. That is the point and clearly others agree.

It may only kill the fun, if you define your WHOLE endgame experience by acquiring items that you dont really need to play the game. If you disregard ALL other content available at end game as not fun, maybe its time for you to play another game.

And how is Guild Wars a fitting name for this game? Does it have any more emphasis on Guild Activities than other games?

phys.7689:

So i told you how i got my legendary/precursors, how did you get yours?

I’ve had 4 precursors.

I forged The Legend with thousands (or so it felt — certainly lots) of rare staves then exotic staves; I ultimately got it from a set of exotics which were output from the rares; I have no problems with spending money on the game, so at least some of this was fueled with gems; I didn’t keep careful track. I was determined to get it, and kept at it until I did. I did try to time purchases of materials to limit costs, but I’d buy / sell gems when needed to fuel this.

After that, I spent 5 months farming world bosses for rares (multiboxing, so counting add’l drops and forged rares this was usually >20 rares per day, and occasional sets of 20+ exotics when I got them for 1g / each) which then went into the mystic forge in matched sets for all different types of weapons. I have an irrational belief that the RNG in the game — while it averages out to the expected values overall — is not initialized properly, so that the initial values are more predictable. I don’t actually have data to support this irrational belief, but both of my precursor forges were when I was taking a break from throwing lots into the forge — I just logged in and did a forge at random for those. OTOH, there’s not enough data there to make any claims.

I was feeling precursor range and was angry about Tequatl (the design — especially initially — wasted too much of players’ time) and some other things in the LS, and had what I needed other than a precursor, so I purchased The Howl from the TP for 200g, forged Howler and gave it to a friend; I was considering quitting the game at the time, and figured that might help.

I forged Flame of Rodgort with a random collection of 3 exotics + a mystic forge stone. I just wanted to see if the output item was different from the 3 if they were all the same (it was) — this was the first and only forge I did that day. I hadn’t been planning on making Rodgort, but decided to go ahead and do so.

I got a Flame of Rodgort drop from a fractal (20s or 30s) end chest. I sold it recently when prices rose.

The TP doesnt kill my fun. If anything it enhances my fun because it allows me to purchase the items I need when doing the content I actually want to do.

I hate to say it, but this thread is just as pointless as the rest of it’s ilk.

Wanze.8410:

It may only kill the fun, if you define your WHOLE endgame experience by acquiring items that you dont really need to play the game. If you disregard ALL other content available at end game as not fun, maybe its time for you to play another game.

The end game content that anyone chooses to do has some level of fun for the individual, but after you do it 10, 100, 1000 times how fun can it be? Attaining a Legendary without playing Gold Wars in the TP sucks the fun out of the game and diminishing returns makes it even worse.

I’ve spent around 800g on gems since the Queen’s Jubilee. I don’t flip. Most of that is from selling ectos and T6 mats I get from Laurels.

Since the feature patch, with the bosses on a time table and the megaserver making sure there’s always players on a map, I’m seeing a doubling of my income. Since the patch dropped I’ve gotten 5 exotic weapons dropped on me in 30ish boss events (no precursors). I think I had 2 exotics drop in the previous 16 months of play. I use to get 2-3 rares a night to salvage, tonight I had 8. I say I conservatively made 70g in the last 2 1/2 weeks.

The point being if I hadn’t been buying gems I would easily have enough for the precursor I need for my legendary I’m making. No “TP Games”. No speed running dungeons. No champ or boss trains. Just two boss events a night and a handful of champs spawning outside of those events. And lots of events. That’s roughly 2 hours a night.

Aidan Savage.2078:

The TP doesnt kill my fun. If anything it enhances my fun because it allows me to purchase the items I need when doing the content I actually want to do.

I hate to say it, but this thread is just as pointless as the rest of it’s ilk.

What is the content that you like to do, and what does it allow you to get from content you dont like doing? Im actually curious

Behellagh.1468:

I’ve spent around 800g on gems since the Queen’s Jubilee. I don’t flip. Most of that is from selling ectos and T6 mats I get from Laurels.

Since the feature patch, with the bosses on a time table and the megaserver making sure there’s always players on a map, I’m seeing a doubling of my income. Since the patch dropped I’ve gotten 5 exotic weapons dropped on me in 30ish boss events (no precursors). I think I had 2 exotics drop in the previous 16 months of play. I use to get 2-3 rares a night to salvage, tonight I had 8. I say I conservatively made 70g in the last 2 1/2 weeks.

The point being if I hadn’t been buying gems I would easily have enough for the precursor I need for my legendary I’m making. No “TP Games”. No speed running dungeons. No champ or boss trains. Just two boss events a night and a handful of champs spawning outside of those events. And lots of events. That’s roughly 2 hours a night.

problem I guess i have is, i actually check the math.
70g in two weeks seems good at first glance for casual play.
But when you do the math it looks grim.
lets say you decide you want to get a precursor, ill try it out with two of em
spark.

now, im gonna simplify some things here, and make assumptions.

heres the assumed.
I will assume the rate of growth in cost for a precursor is linear,
I will take the data for nov1 up to today, approx 181 days. (about 6 months)
assuming you continue to make 70g in 18 days (about two and a half weeks)

so i will make a formula
e=earnings per day
x=number of days till you get enough
c=current price of precursor
i=rate of increase per day

so i get e*x=c+(i*x)
so lets figure out how much you earn per day at 70 gold every two weeks
70/18 days =3.88 gold per day
now lets use sparks data for the rest
current price 1150g
rate of increase in 184 days.
Nov1 price=615 gold
May 4 price=1150 gold
535gold increase in 184days or a rate of 2.90 gold per day

so our formula looks like
3.88*x=1150+2.90*x
solving for x you get 1173 days

essentially the main problem is the rate of growth of precursors, so essentially people on the lower end of the spectrum get crushed. you must first overcome the price change, then its about how much more you can make over that.
essentially if you dont make 2.9 gold a day on average (weekends off will lower your average)
you will never get enough for the legendary. It differs a bit based on the legendary
lets look at zap
1090-628=462/184=2.51gold per day
3.88x =1090+2.51*x
x=795.6 days.

once you overcome the rate of change, you can start making real progress.
And therin lies one of the issues. Normal play doesnt yeild that much gold compared to the growth in cost.
you actually need to earn gold as fast as possible to minimize the effects of the increase in price.

therefore, you need to get gold FAST, not just overtime, the faster you get it, the less you pay.
just look at this factor, at the current rate of growth, by the time you can afford spark it will cost. 4542 gold. (1183 days from now)

now these models are incredibly simplified, but it gives you an inkling of the issues. There are somethings that may help, like the rate of growth going down, and inflation in basic materials sale values. But its just as possible the rate of growth will increase, and truth is inflation of basic items isnt as great as the inflation in precursor/endgame item prices.

So yeah my problem is that i do some maths, so i have a better idea what goes on.
In order to get precursor, on the market it is TOTALLY relevant how fast you can make that money.

• The problem with this is since you cant work to it incrementally, you end up paying the full costs of inflation on that item. for example materials may go up in value, but every material you get along the way is a finite step towards your goal. To make it clear, yeah, powerful blood may have gone up from 31 silver to 50 silver, but you have some obtained at the lower prices, and can obtain some each day, instead of having to buy 250 at however much it costs 2 years from now.

so since you got to make the money as fast as possible, now you start to look at how you are playing. earning twice as much per hour doesnt just get you to your goal twice as fast, it gets you there almost 5 times faster

lets say wanze makes 10 gold an hour even while he sleeps, or 240 gold a day.
4.71 days versus 1183 days
what does that mean?
well even though he only earns 63 times more gold than you per day, he can get the item 251 times faster than you can.

One of the side issues, is that most of the things which are giving you money now, are needed for legendaries, so your earning tends to drop a bit from farming once you target a legendary.

Essentially, what doing the math has taught me is that large lump sum items favor the rich greatly on a normal market. Essentially for this system to work, you probably need a tyrian credit card or bank.

So heres what happens once you target one of these big money endgame items.
You need to get your gold earning power up greatly, it saves on costs.

So unless you were already from normal play earning like 10 gold a day on average, you will probably need to alter your playstyle. (even 10 gold a guy days could beneft greatly from altering playstyle, but not as drastically as say a 3 gold a day guy)

So now, you end up doing whatever you are ok at, but you are doing it focused on money. Faster dungeon times, more dungeon paths, longer grinding times. Things that give suboptimal gold per hour (lets say you did jumping puzzles for kicks) are huge wastes, after all the jumping puzzles give you about 30 silver an hour, and you only got two hours a day 4 days a week. you could have made 6 gold an hour on the champ train!

And this is when the game turns into gold wars, its about getting as much gold as possible, as fast as possible, any way you can, Or else you will work way longer to achieve the same ends.

So yeah, i think not going for the endgame items is the best thing to do. It makes you play in ways you probably dont like, unless you were already gold focused.

Problem is, there is a lot less motivation to do things that you have already done once you have no game designed goals for it.

I can do maths as well.

I was making roughly 85g a month before the patch and 150g a month now. That’s 800g or so since the start of the Jubilee. Now I’ve been playing twice as long as that but I was more interested in map completion with my first character than income generation so I wasn’t doing boss events so my earning were rather low.

The surge in precursor prices it solely due to the reduction of supply on the TP. 6 weeks ago for instance there were 25 Sparks for around 650g. Now there are 6 at 1200g with prices rising and supplies dropping on just about all precursor and legendary weapons since the official news on how the new skinning system. This surge is temporary and I’m quite patient.

Also of the 17 non-aquatic precursors, only six have a “buy now” price of over 800g, Dusk, Dawn, Zap, Spark, The Legend, and The Colossus. So if I was crafting anything other than a greatsword, sword, dagger, staff or hammer I could have bought one already, if I hadn’t spent the 800g on gems.

phys.7689:

problem I guess i have is, i actually check the math.
70g in two weeks seems good at first glance for casual play.
But when you do the math it looks grim.
lets say you decide you want to get a precursor, ill try it out with two of em
spark.

now, im gonna simplify some things here, and make assumptions.

heres the assumed.
I will assume the rate of growth in cost for a precursor is linear,
I will take the data for nov1 up to today, approx 181 days. (about 6 months)
assuming you continue to make 70g in 18 days (about two and a half weeks)

so i will make a formula
e=earnings per day
x=number of days till you get enough
c=current price of precursor
i=rate of increase per day

so i get e*x=c+(i*x)
so lets figure out how much you earn per day at 70 gold every two weeks
70/18 days =3.88 gold per day
now lets use sparks data for the rest
current price 1150g
rate of increase in 184 days.
Nov1 price=615 gold
May 4 price=1150 gold
535gold increase in 184days or a rate of 2.90 gold per day

so our formula looks like
3.88*x=1150+2.90*x
solving for x you get 1173 days

My degree was in math, but it was theoretical math; and I do software instead now.

Your assumptions aren’t consistent — you’re assuming a linear increase (why linear rather than exponential?) in the cost of a precursor but not a linear increase in income; this seems based on the assumption that precursors’ prices will rise but other in-game rewards won’t. I don’t think either data or economic analysis justify that model. Look at http://www.gw2spidy.com/item/29167 and see if you think a linear price increase explains the current rise.

I believe prices increased because legendaries’ value increased (now that they include a skin unlock and are account-bound), not because of monetary inflation (increased money supply). That doesn’t mean that prices can’t increase, but I wouldn’t speculate on precursors right now — I think it’d likely be a losing bet.

If you take away the assumption that precursor prices will rise faster than average income, you come up with a different conclusion.

linuxotaku.4731:

phys.7689:

problem I guess i have is, i actually check the math.
70g in two weeks seems good at first glance for casual play.
But when you do the math it looks grim.
lets say you decide you want to get a precursor, ill try it out with two of em
spark.

now, im gonna simplify some things here, and make assumptions.

heres the assumed.
I will assume the rate of growth in cost for a precursor is linear,
I will take the data for nov1 up to today, approx 181 days. (about 6 months)
assuming you continue to make 70g in 18 days (about two and a half weeks)

so i will make a formula
e=earnings per day
x=number of days till you get enough
c=current price of precursor
i=rate of increase per day

so i get e*x=c+(i*x)
so lets figure out how much you earn per day at 70 gold every two weeks
70/18 days =3.88 gold per day
now lets use sparks data for the rest
current price 1150g
rate of increase in 184 days.
Nov1 price=615 gold
May 4 price=1150 gold
535gold increase in 184days or a rate of 2.90 gold per day

so our formula looks like
3.88*x=1150+2.90*x
solving for x you get 1173 days

My degree was in math, but it was theoretical math; and I do software instead now.

Your assumptions aren’t consistent — you’re assuming a linear increase (why linear rather than exponential?) in the cost of a precursor but not a linear increase in income; this seems based on the assumption that precursors’ prices will rise but other in-game rewards won’t. I don’t think either data or economic analysis justify that model. Look at http://www.gw2spidy.com/item/29167 and see if you think a linear price increase explains the current rise.

I believe prices increased because legendaries’ value increased (now that they include a skin unlock and are account-bound), not because of monetary inflation (increased money supply). That doesn’t mean that prices can’t increase, but I wouldn’t speculate on precursors right now — I think it’d likely be a losing bet.

If you take away the assumption that precursor prices will rise faster than average income, you come up with a different conclusion.

as i said, its a simplification,
i even mentioned the factors you talked about, but the truth is earning has not gone up in conjunction with legendary costs. The biggest help to earning has been ascended crafting, which finally increased value for a lot of crafting materials who were actually going down in value.
orichalcum stable, ancient wood stable, iron stable, teir1-teir5 mostly same or gone down. Very few things have gone up, most regular items have gone down. some things have gone up. (im talking actual items here, tp is a different beast)

But overall, the earning isnt going up as much as precursors growth.

I used linear, even though its probably more of curve, because i want to give the benefit of the doubt in this case. Curved is actually a lot worse for this prediction, unless earning is the same curve, if earning does have the same curve, then you can factor out that part, and you end up getting a line again.

regardless, while the demand has increased, we really dont know how much real demand has been added.
If the changes have made 4 times as many people interested in getting one, i think that would probably outweigh the once in awhile case of someone who has two dawns for each charachter or some such.

As far as speculating? a lot is in flux, we dont know if we are at the start of the spike, or the end. But im just going off of the data we have.

phys.7689:

as i said, its a simplification,
i even mentioned the factors you talked about, but the truth is earning has not gone up in conjunction with legendary costs. The biggest help to earning has been ascended crafting, which finally increased value for a lot of crafting materials who were actually going down in value.

I don’t agree with that. If you mostly get money from running dungeons, then you benefit from a meta which allows very fast teams (much faster than 4 war + 1 mes). If you mostly get money from drops, then the value of T5-T6, blue and green drops, and rares/exotics have all gone up — the latter two in direct proportion to the increase in precursor costs.

The problem is that you’re ignoring external factors in pricing, and assuming that the shape of the curve is purely because of monetary inflation. I think you’re wrong about that.

phys.7689:

orichalcum stable, ancient wood stable, iron stable, teir1-teir5 mostly same or gone down. Very few things have gone up, most regular items have gone down. some things have gone up. (im talking actual items here, tp is a different beast)

Where are you getting your numbers? T5 has seen obvious increases in prices, presumably because you can use them to make rare weapons to forge precursors. Until ascended crafting, iron was ~10c; it’s fluctated due to external factors, but is certainly much higher than it was a year ago: http://www.gw2spidy.com/item/19699

phys.7689:

But overall, the earning isnt going up as much as precursors growth.

I would claim the opposite — because of how things can be transformed, increased precursors costs usually help support other markets (e.g. T5 materials, rare weapons, ectos).

phys.7689:

I used linear, even though its probably more of curve, because i want to give the benefit of the doubt in this case. Curved is actually a lot worse for this prediction, unless earning is the same curve, if earning does have the same curve, then you can factor out that part, and you end up getting a line again.

If you’d used anything except linear, it would have been glaringly obvious that the calculations were unrealistic; the linear estimate is still based on what I consider a faulty assumption.

Look at the graph again. On June 4th 2013, the low sell price was 580g; on Feb 3rd 2014, the low sell price was 593g. It’s gone up, but as I and others have said it’s obvious that it went up not due to monetary inflation but due to a change in the value of legendary weapons.

I would bet money that those who are patient will ultimately be able to purchase at a lower price than the current one — in part because the high prices encourage gambling with the mystic forge. The materials used in that gambling are the type that all players who’ve reached the end game are receiving as drops, and thus they’ll get some of the benefit of high precursor prices.

phys.7689:

regardless, while the demand has increased, we really dont know how much real demand has been added.
If the changes have made 4 times as many people interested in getting one, i think that would probably outweigh the once in awhile case of someone who has two dawns for each charachter or some such.

As far as speculating? a lot is in flux, we dont know if we are at the start of the spike, or the end. But im just going off of the data we have.

I would agree that all of this is speculation — but that makes the calculation you offered earlier all the more unconnected from any real data or analysis. You were responding to someone who is confident that they make progress at an OK rate, and AFAICT you haven’t offered any convincing proof that they are not actually making progress at a reasonable rate.

phys.7689:

as i said, its a simplification,
i even mentioned the factors you talked about, but the truth is earning has not gone up in conjunction with legendary costs. The biggest help to earning has been ascended crafting, which finally increased value for a lot of crafting materials who were actually going down in value.

I should note one other thing — in other posts, I’ve appreciated that you wrote out your numerical analysis (and I agreed with it). Here I think you started with the wrong assumptions, and if so — the result will be wrong however clear/correct the math.

If you dont think my math model is accurate, create a more accurate one i would love to see a more detailed analysis, but i think while the numbers may vary, i dont think the patterns will.

look at iron ore, pick a date august 13 (picked at random)
Zap= 422 gold
iron ore is =60 copper
orichalcum = 4.32 silver
hardened leather section =12 copper
berserker draconic = 3.9 gold

now look at today
Zap =1050 248%
iron ore = 1.09 silver 178%
orichalcum=5.89 silver 136%
hardened leather section 12 copper 100%
beserker draconic =5.3 gold 135%

far as direct drops they are the same. I dont think optimal dungeon running times have changed that much.

point is precursor growth is growing at a greater rate than inflation. Im not saying why or wherefore, im just looking at the data. for most products if you compare the growth precursor is eclipsing other growths.
you see the same things with gold>gems.

aug 13 gold > to gems, 3.14 gold for 100 gems
today gold >gems, 9.58 gold for 100 gems 305% old value

Recently sold Rodgort’s Flame for 80 Gold and Spark for 1k. I played it safe with Buy Orders, since I don’t want to be caught with my pants down when prices/undercutters come rushing in. Prices are artificially high at the moment, and it’s a ripe time to take advantage of people willing to spend. It’s a gamble between assuming it’s monetary inflation or bad speculations. I’m going with the latter, and unloading what I can fast.

phys.7689:

If you dont think my math model is accurate, create a more accurate one i would love to see a more detailed analysis, but i think while the numbers may vary, i dont think the patterns will.

Saimurai did this research on inflation, it was last updated in February though:
http://gw2trading.net/report/inflation

Obtena.7952:

laokoko.7403:

Maybe if you can emphasize on the world unfairness, you can understand why people are complaining.

You’re being unrealistic here. The rewards are structured in a way that makes them fair because every single person has access to every activity in the game; almost completely independent of gear or skill as well. So really, even the most incompetent player can get anything they want if they make their goal and spent the time needed to achieve it. The only barrier to being rewarded in the game by doing whatever you want, how you want to …. is you. Their isn’t some game mechanic that stops you from taking advantage of these methods or earning gold while playing how you want. You’re simply not recognizing that earning whatever you want in this game is up to you and is a matter of time only.

I remember vanilla wow when every pvp players are complaining they spend much more time invested compare to raid players to obtain their legendary. People literally played 10 hours a day everyday and still can’t obtain those grandmarshall gear. And Blizzard listened, they introduced Arena the next expansion. People can now casually play every week and obtain the best gear in the game.

I just dont’ understand why they make the TP game much more rewarding than the other part of the game Or why it should be. If anything for a cash shop game, they shoudn’t want people to get so much with so little time invested, so those people might spend money on the cash shop. Maybe the economist team think they spend more time on the game than the dungeon team, so TP flipping should be much more rewarding.

I honestly don’t understand what the game designers is thinking, and maybe they just didn’t spend much time thinking about it. Not only on this topic, but also the combat design abandoning trinity etc.

I’m not sure why you say it is unrealistic though. Every single mmorpg, weather it is subscription or f2p cashshop manage to do it.

I think the biggest problem with the global TP is how unbelievably low droprates become to “balance” the fact you can buy it.
For many items the only viable way to get them is to grind gold and buy it from various people who got lucky with a drop and descided to sell it.

Precursor is a prime example, but far from the only one, as the droprate is so absurdly low. I’ve never seen one drop, and ive been playing since launch.
But what about more every-day items? I picked up a set of Runes of the Eagle for an alt. Price tag of 20gold.

Is there anyway for me to get Runes of the Eagle other then buying them? Is there a dungeon i can run? Is there a recipe i can craft with? Nope. Buying them on the TP is the only viable way.

A cool event item thats a limited time drop? (Scarlets gun, jetpack, etc) Well you better kitten well believe that the dropchance is so incredibly low, you could spend the entire event farming for it and never get it. Thats very likely to happen infact, the only viable way to get such an item is to grind for gold and buy it.
so instead of engaging in these events, people grind the same thing theyve always done to buy it.

New weapon skin from blacklion tickets, its more fruitful to spend that gold to just straight up buying it as oppose to going for the chests themselves. Devs even said to just get the gold and buy it!

And that i feel is a big problem, that “grind gold, buy on TP” is your go-to answer for getting almost anything in the game.
The TP Lords simply execerbate this problem. As you, Average Joe, grind your gold to buy that item, some TP Boss has swooped in and bought them all out and relisted them for a massive mark up while keeping the supply artificially low.
Constantly shifting the bar even higher then it already was. First you had to grind 70g, then it became 100g, then 150g, now its 300g.

@OP

Mis-Quote Blizzard:

“We gladly exploited stupid people who spent $250 on single items/pixels, and very bad statted items/pixels at that, and even items/pixels we changed the stats/values of later, for over 2 years. We made a heap of money, and we agree NOW after 2 years and 9000+ threads telling us the Real Money Auction House is a plague on the game/social aspects, we will close it.

Thank you for your money,

-Blizzard"

laokoko.7403:

Obtena.7952:

laokoko.7403:

Maybe if you can emphasize on the world unfairness, you can understand why people are complaining.

You’re being unrealistic here. The rewards are structured in a way that makes them fair because every single person has access to every activity in the game; almost completely independent of gear or skill as well. So really, even the most incompetent player can get anything they want if they make their goal and spent the time needed to achieve it. The only barrier to being rewarded in the game by doing whatever you want, how you want to …. is you. Their isn’t some game mechanic that stops you from taking advantage of these methods or earning gold while playing how you want. You’re simply not recognizing that earning whatever you want in this game is up to you and is a matter of time only.

I just dont’ understand why they make the TP game much more rewarding than the other part of the game Or why it should be.

… because you don’t understand that the things that reward players are individual preference. GW2 actually rewards players very well over a wide range of activities. This is because the rewards a player gets from doing ANY activity they choose can be used to get anything they want to have. It’s simply a matter of time. There are very few rewards in this game that are regulated to specific activities and the ones that are (dungeon tokens for instance) are guaranteed to the point where you know exactly how many times a dungeon needs to be done to get them. This is possibly the best reward structure in an MMO I have ever experienced.

I’m not forced to do anything I don’t want to do, and I can get anything I want. I’m also not being left in the dust for endgame gear because I’m a casual player. Anyone that complains about this rewards structure is being obtuse. If people can’t recognize the freedom this system provides to a wide variety of players, they simply haven’t moved on from archaic reward structures from other MMO’s.

Obtena.7952:

laokoko.7403:

Obtena.7952:

laokoko.7403:

Maybe if you can emphasize on the world unfairness, you can understand why people are complaining.

You’re being unrealistic here. The rewards are structured in a way that makes them fair because every single person has access to every activity in the game; almost completely independent of gear or skill as well. So really, even the most incompetent player can get anything they want if they make their goal and spent the time needed to achieve it. The only barrier to being rewarded in the game by doing whatever you want, how you want to …. is you. Their isn’t some game mechanic that stops you from taking advantage of these methods or earning gold while playing how you want. You’re simply not recognizing that earning whatever you want in this game is up to you and is a matter of time only.

I just dont’ understand why they make the TP game much more rewarding than the other part of the game Or why it should be.

… because you don’t understand that the things that reward players are individual preference. GW2 actually rewards players very well over a wide range of activities. This is because the rewards a player gets from doing ANY activity they choose can be used to get anything they want to have. It’s simply a matter of time. There are very few rewards in this game that are regulated to specific activities and the ones that are (dungeon tokens for instance) are guaranteed to the point where you know exactly how many times a dungeon needs to be done to get them. This is possibly the best reward structure in an MMO I have ever experienced.

I’m not forced to do anything I don’t want to do, and I can get anything I want. I’m also not being left in the dust for endgame gear because I’m a casual player. Anyone that complains about this rewards structure is being obtuse. If people can’t recognize the freedom this system provides to a wide variety of players, they simply haven’t moved on from archaic reward structures from other MMO’s.

It’s just silly. That’s the the Vanilla Wow argument. Oh pvp can battleground 10 hours a day for a year and still not get the best gear, while molten core players can play 4 hours a week for a few month and get the best gear.

In GW2, anyone can get top level (Exotic) “stat” gear quickly and easily. Best gear (Ascended) takes some effort, but everyone is capable of getting that too. Now the best “looking” stat gear, that falls under “individual preference”.

I could PvE or WvW for an hour a day for a week, and get some good Exotic armors or weapons. Now if I wanted some good looking skins, that’ll probably take longer to get.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

In GW2, anyone can get top level (Exotic) “stat” gear quickly and easily. Best gear (Ascended) takes some effort, but everyone is capable of getting that too. Now the best “looking” stat gear, that falls under “individual preference”.

I could PvE or WvW for an hour a day for a week, and get some good Exotic armors or weapons. Now if I wanted some good looking skins, that’ll probably take longer to get.

I’m happy for you that exotic is good enough for you.

If everyone is content with exotic, no one will be complaining about ascended and precursor price.

I think the horizontal progression is a bit deep in this game. When a few set of ascended gear for different playing style could cost as much as a legendary.

laokoko.7403:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

In GW2, anyone can get top level (Exotic) “stat” gear quickly and easily. Best gear (Ascended) takes some effort, but everyone is capable of getting that too. Now the best “looking” stat gear, that falls under “individual preference”.

I could PvE or WvW for an hour a day for a week, and get some good Exotic armors or weapons. Now if I wanted some good looking skins, that’ll probably take longer to get.

I’m happy for you that exotic is good enough for you.

If everyone is content with exotic, no one will be complaining about ascended and precursor price.

I think the horizontal progression is a bit deep in this game. When a few set of ascended gear for different playing style could cost as much as a legendary.

It still comes down to individual preferences. A skilled player can do quite well just full Exotics. But if you truly feel the need to be decked out in the best gear, then you gotta make the choice of whether or not it’s worth the price and effort. IMO, the minor stat boosts do not justify the prices you need to pay for Ascended gear. Didn’t stop me from fully gearing my Thief when it first came out. I paid a high price to be part of the Elite firsts to get it. That’s life for ya.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

laokoko.7403:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

In GW2, anyone can get top level (Exotic) “stat” gear quickly and easily. Best gear (Ascended) takes some effort, but everyone is capable of getting that too. Now the best “looking” stat gear, that falls under “individual preference”.

I could PvE or WvW for an hour a day for a week, and get some good Exotic armors or weapons. Now if I wanted some good looking skins, that’ll probably take longer to get.

I’m happy for you that exotic is good enough for you.

If everyone is content with exotic, no one will be complaining about ascended and precursor price.

I think the horizontal progression is a bit deep in this game. When a few set of ascended gear for different playing style could cost as much as a legendary.

It still comes down to individual preferences. A skilled player can do quite well just full Exotics. But if you truly feel the need to be decked out in the best gear, then you gotta make the choice of whether or not it’s worth the price and effort. IMO, the minor stat boosts do not justify the prices you need to pay for Ascended gear. Didn’t stop me from fully gearing my Thief when it first came out. I paid a high price to be part of the Elite firsts to get it. That’s life for ya.

That’s why a bunch of people call GW2 the grindest mmorpg ever and a bunch of people don’t right?

Depend if you want those things. I dont’ think what you want is necessary matters to what other people want.

Completely agree. I too have brought up on multiple occasions just how alike the economies for GW2 and D3 actually are in terms of requiring players use real money to get the items they needed. For example, the process of sigils and runes in GW2 are closely related to some of the much harder to find complete set pieces in D3 and these things ARE essential to game play. Since coming back it has been a bit easier to make gold I’ve found things that people haven’t paid attention to that I just happened to know how to make or gather without a hitch and turn in large quantities to the TP however, this has become my daily routine now. Do the daily, try to finish as much as possible in the monthly and farm. And keep in mind two things, I am a legit farmer have been the whole time I’ve played went to get skins in every game I played, special mounts, farmed materials for hours it’s what I like to do and the second thing is this, I’m not trying to make precursors, I’ve just tried to adjust to the ever changing nature of my class (Engineer) and buy some of the skins I couldn’t get from previous temporary content patches. (some of these are off the scale on pricing however and that’s really sad.)

The problem isn’t just the loot. It’s far bigger than that. You see, they allowed players to amass so much gold from players like whales to players who were lucky enough to not be punished for the mishap of allowing multiple early precursors to drop during the first Island event in which players could switch between toons go to the same spot for the chest and loot the same chest multiple times.

Why was this a problem? The early magic find system had it’s flaws and one as we found was that you actually had to have two things to make it work, guild boost and store boosts. Meanwhile most of the playerbase because of the sheer numbers of players and the lopsided loot bug that took months to find and fix (while denial was message of choice) couldn’t get a single drop to save their lives, and it took it’s toll on the fun of players.

It’s the age old carrot on a stick system. It’s why players play these games sure they expect modern ui’s and easy crafting and exciting combat, but we play them for the feeling of being rewarded. It’s psychology so when you have an economic system that requires that you force the rewards to be all but nonexistant than you lose players over a period of time who initially started out feeling great about a game but became board as the goals become longer and longer and the items more and more expensive and you can add any amount of gold sinks into the system you want, but eventually you have to deal with the fact that it’s the economic system itself that is the central problem. It’s why they use DR (which hasn’t gotten rid of any bot in history of any mmo), it’s why they limit loot (like the removal of unid dyes), it’s why they make it more difficult to play alts pre-level 30 (to try to control bots), and it ends up backfiring.

Let Diablo III be the example for this. It’s a bad economy. Four things need to occur here. 1: DR and loot restrictions must go. 2: double RNG must be a thing of the past, no more buying crafting bags only to get the same things drop or having a second drop rate for bags from mobs than the drop rate of the items from the bags. 3: Precursors and ALL runes/sigils must become crafted items. 4: And finally, the rewards for completing maps/puzzles/finding hidden chests/completing major events should all be increased, that way players actually FEEL rewarded. Please no more of this “I completed a major map, got 5 silver!” nonsense.

Edit: Let me give you an example of fun. The other night I started playing a game that changed their loot system and economy. I made a brand new character. At level 10 I actually got a legendary item to drop from a major enemy kill. How kool is that! That’s the carrot on a stick people. That’s fun! And now because of that I have the desire to log in and see if my luck continues.

tigirius.9014:

Four things need to occur here. 1: DR and loot restrictions must go. 2: double RNG must be a thing of the past, no more buying crafting bags only to get the same things drop or having a second drop rate for bags from mobs than the drop rate of the items from the bags. 3: Precursors and ALL runes/sigils must become crafted items. 4: And finally, the rewards for completing maps/puzzles/finding hidden chests/completing major events should all be increased, that way players actually FEEL rewarded. Please no more of this “I completed a major map, got 5 silver!” nonsense.

And we’re right back at “Entitlement”. All the things you suggest are meant to only benefit your instant gratification. By implementing 3 of 4 of these, you actually destroy the game faster.

-What happens when you run out of carrots to gather? You quit playing.
-What happens when you take away the gates, and allow farmers to run rampant with loot drops? You create inflation.
-What happens when you increase loot drops from events that are farmed daily by thousands of players? You create more inflation.

Be prepared for Precursor crafting though. Once that comes out, you’ll get a feel for what a real grind is. I’ve already been speculating as to what components this will require, and have been farming them up in hopes to be one of the first to craft and sell them.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

tigirius.9014:

Four things need to occur here. 1: DR and loot restrictions must go. 2: double RNG must be a thing of the past, no more buying crafting bags only to get the same things drop or having a second drop rate for bags from mobs than the drop rate of the items from the bags. 3: Precursors and ALL runes/sigils must become crafted items. 4: And finally, the rewards for completing maps/puzzles/finding hidden chests/completing major events should all be increased, that way players actually FEEL rewarded. Please no more of this “I completed a major map, got 5 silver!” nonsense.

And we’re right back at “Entitlement”. All the things you suggest are meant to only benefit your instant gratification. By implementing 3 of 4 of these, you actually destroy the game faster.

-What happens when you run out of carrots to gather? You quit playing.
-What happens when you take away the gates, and allow farmers to run rampant with loot drops? You create inflation.
-What happens when you increase loot drops from events that are farmed daily by thousands of players? You create more inflation.

Be prepared for Precursor crafting though. Once that comes out, you’ll get a feel for what a real grind is. I’ve already been speculating as to what components this will require, and have been farming them up in hopes to be one of the first to craft and sell them.

loot drops dont’ really create inflation. Gold drop does.

ya it’s quite sad I think most people still playing the game are achiever. Me myself too. Doing repetitive task everyday for the carrot. If there is no carrot in the end, I dont’ think I’m playing.

Just about all my cof farmers friend list are gone, I suppose most of them quit after they get their legendary. One of them went pvp, another just logon to chat.

/face palm
So your basically complaining that your bored of the game and other players are playing the game different then how YOU think it should be and that is not acceptable so obviously the game has to be changed to accommodate your own personal preference.

This complain about TP? it happens in every mmo. People will always be manipulating and playing the market in an attempt to make more and more game currency. That’s what its there for, to allow people to sell items they obtained to other players who don’t have the time or just aren’t interested in spending the time is takes to gain the item.

Stop worrying what your neighbour’s are doing and play it how you want and stop expecting everyone to be just like you.

Chaotic Storm.2815:

/face palm
So your basically complaining that your bored of the game and other players are playing the game different then how YOU think it should be and that is not acceptable so obviously the game has to be changed to accommodate your own personal preference.

Are you talking to me?

I’m just agreeing with Smooth Penguin people quit after they get their carrot. Apparently this game is mostly carrot, and yes people quit after they get their carrot. All I said is all the cof farmer chasing legendary I used to play with quit the game. That’s all I said.

To me most people still playing the game are either casual players or achiever type player, that’s all I’m thinking. I think you overthink what I said.

And I probably said a million times, sure every game have manipulation, it’s really how much of it and weather people care. It’s like the other guy saying how he flipped in Rift and become a billionaire and the manipulation is much worse there. But no one in Rift even cares. You can just go ask and no one cares.

laokoko.7403:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

tigirius.9014:

Four things need to occur here. 1: DR and loot restrictions must go. 2: double RNG must be a thing of the past, no more buying crafting bags only to get the same things drop or having a second drop rate for bags from mobs than the drop rate of the items from the bags. 3: Precursors and ALL runes/sigils must become crafted items. 4: And finally, the rewards for completing maps/puzzles/finding hidden chests/completing major events should all be increased, that way players actually FEEL rewarded. Please no more of this “I completed a major map, got 5 silver!” nonsense.

And we’re right back at “Entitlement”. All the things you suggest are meant to only benefit your instant gratification. By implementing 3 of 4 of these, you actually destroy the game faster.

-What happens when you run out of carrots to gather? You quit playing.
-What happens when you take away the gates, and allow farmers to run rampant with loot drops? You create inflation.
-What happens when you increase loot drops from events that are farmed daily by thousands of players? You create more inflation.

Be prepared for Precursor crafting though. Once that comes out, you’ll get a feel for what a real grind is. I’ve already been speculating as to what components this will require, and have been farming them up in hopes to be one of the first to craft and sell them.

loot drops dont’ really create inflation. Gold drop does.

ya it’s quite sad I think most people still playing the game are achiever. Me myself too. Doing repetitive task everyday for the carrot. If there is no carrot in the end, I dont’ think I’m playing.

Just about all my cof farmers friend list are gone, I suppose most of them quit after they get their legendary. One of them went pvp, another just logon to chat.

Entitlement is the cry of the rich when the poor want to actually be rewarded for their time. It’s a real life attack on the poor, you might want to get your philosophy checked there as it’s been proven time and time again to be a sign of general inhumane tendencies towards others and a lack of compassion on the part of those who make those claims.

The carrot on a stick is very much a sense of gratification however that argument in no way invalidates or makes my argument wrong Penguin. It’s simply a matter of fact that most players play for the carrot, whole studies have been done on the subject over a number of years to find out the appeal mmo’s have on mmo players and this was the conclusion multiple times. Just because you can’t accept it doesn’t make it any less real.

That being said, there are some steps to make these things not affect the market as drastically as you and others boasting false alarms would have us believe. Certain items could become available from Karma and Laurels and not be sold on the market at all like Runes/Sigils for example (since they are one of the single highest inflatable items on the market today and are essential to game play)How high would you like these items to get before it becomes ridiculous Penguin? How high is too much? Is 500 gold a skin too much? 1000?

By carefully implementing 3-4 of these the only thing that will be destroyed are the complete hold that the whales have on this economy from unfair advantages such as getting multiple early precursors, and manipulating the market even further to cause prices to continually rise endlessly.

The other part of this equation is the loot drop differential from dungeons and the open world. It’s no secret that one cannot go and farm items personally without a huge difference in drops between dungeons and the open world. You have to ask, what happened to the open world being the key focus of the game and I’m not just talking about content here, I’m talking about rewards again. Why are there such huge differences between the rewards one gets from the open world champions, which are very much the same as the bosses in dungeons, same resistances same system, heck Lyssa is every bit as dangerous and disabling as any dungeon fight currently in the game, yet when you loot her chest what do you get? Are there extra chests like what happens in dungeons? Are there multiple mini bosses to contend with while fighting Lyssa? Yes, are their boxes just as lucrative as those found in dungeons?

laokoko.7403:

Chaotic Storm.2815:

/face palm
So your basically complaining that your bored of the game and other players are playing the game different then how YOU think it should be and that is not acceptable so obviously the game has to be changed to accommodate your own personal preference.

Are you talking to me?

I’m just agreeing with Smooth Penguin people quit after they get their carrot. Apparently this game is mostly carrot, and yes people quit after they get their carrot. All I said is all the cof farmer chasing legendary I used to play with quit the game. That’s all I said.

To me most people still playing the game are either casual players or achiever type player, that’s all I’m thinking. I think you overthink what I said.

And I probably said a million times, sure every game have manipulation, it’s really how much of it and weather people care. It’s like the other guy saying how he flipped in Rift and become a billionaire and the manipulation is much worse there. But no one in Rift even cares. You can just go ask and no one cares.

I’m just pointing out the facts. The number of players that have returned to D3 has increased dramatically since they’ve removed RMTAH. If they did something similar to GW2 and removed the restrictions on traits it might improve this title’s population immediately.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

tigirius.9014:

Four things need to occur here. 1: DR and loot restrictions must go. 2: double RNG must be a thing of the past, no more buying crafting bags only to get the same things drop or having a second drop rate for bags from mobs than the drop rate of the items from the bags. 3: Precursors and ALL runes/sigils must become crafted items. 4: And finally, the rewards for completing maps/puzzles/finding hidden chests/completing major events should all be increased, that way players actually FEEL rewarded. Please no more of this “I completed a major map, got 5 silver!” nonsense.

And we’re right back at “Entitlement”. All the things you suggest are meant to only benefit your instant gratification. By implementing 3 of 4 of these, you actually destroy the game faster.

-What happens when you run out of carrots to gather? You quit playing.
-What happens when you take away the gates, and allow farmers to run rampant with loot drops? You create inflation.
-What happens when you increase loot drops from events that are farmed daily by thousands of players? You create more inflation.

Be prepared for Precursor crafting though. Once that comes out, you’ll get a feel for what a real grind is. I’ve already been speculating as to what components this will require, and have been farming them up in hopes to be one of the first to craft and sell them.

Carrot on a stick is supposed to be used to lead animals where you want them to go. Currently the carrot leads to degenerative gold grinds they constantly nerf (which end up effecting everyone) and playing merchant, not only that but its competitive grind, so your goal is either to become richer, make everyone poorer or both.

need the carrot, and need better destinations, and journey.

phys.7689:

If you dont think my math model is accurate, create a more accurate one i would love to see a more detailed analysis, but i think while the numbers may vary, i dont think the patterns will.

look at iron ore, pick a date august 13 (picked at random)

August 13th is not useful for this model. To be accurate, you have to anchor your model against the relevant date — March 25th 2014 is when they announced the wardrobe system; looking at the graph, it seems possible that some people were speculating about it before it happened, but that’s the date I’d use, since that clearly changed the value of legendaries, which translates into higher value for precursors.

The rise since then has been linear at a steep slope; I assume this is because the demand curve has shifted. Current demand covered all precursors at what were the current prices, so they all sold (alternately, there was a demand shock); eventually we’ll find a new equilibrium price, and then we’ll probably have a stable price until something else perturbs the economy.

Take a look at e.g. http://sites.google.com/site/martinbodenstein/mekonstanz_papers/Yun_JME.pdf for some numeric models which might apply.

My guess is that we’ll see something like the 2nd graph on the right on page 349 of that document — but I’ll be clear that this is a guess. My comment for you is just that if you want a numeric model which applies, you have to anchor it against the events which change the market.

phys.7689:

Carrot on a stick is supposed to be used to lead animals where you want them to go. Currently the carrot leads to degenerative gold grinds they constantly nerf (which end up effecting everyone) and playing merchant, not only that but its competitive grind, so your goal is either to become richer, make everyone poorer or both.

need the carrot, and need better destinations, and journey.

This is one area where we’re in agreement — I don’t think the current mechanism for acquiring precursors is healthy or good for the game. I understand that it supports markets for rare and exotic weapons, but I dislike lottery systems — while nominally fair (everyone has the same chances), they produce outcomes which strike me and others as unfair (some are rewarded much more for the same effort, due to how distributions work).

If I get a precursor as a drop, I’ll make that legendary (so long as I don’t already have it) — whatever it is, I have some character who could use it. But I’m not going to pursue them again (been there, done that — not going to do it again) unless they release a precursor scavenger hunt which seems worth doing.

laokoko.7403:

Obtena.7952:

laokoko.7403:

Obtena.7952:

laokoko.7403:

Maybe if you can emphasize on the world unfairness, you can understand why people are complaining.

You’re being unrealistic here. The rewards are structured in a way that makes them fair because every single person has access to every activity in the game; almost completely independent of gear or skill as well. So really, even the most incompetent player can get anything they want if they make their goal and spent the time needed to achieve it. The only barrier to being rewarded in the game by doing whatever you want, how you want to …. is you. Their isn’t some game mechanic that stops you from taking advantage of these methods or earning gold while playing how you want. You’re simply not recognizing that earning whatever you want in this game is up to you and is a matter of time only.

I just dont’ understand why they make the TP game much more rewarding than the other part of the game Or why it should be.

… because you don’t understand that the things that reward players are individual preference. GW2 actually rewards players very well over a wide range of activities. This is because the rewards a player gets from doing ANY activity they choose can be used to get anything they want to have. It’s simply a matter of time. There are very few rewards in this game that are regulated to specific activities and the ones that are (dungeon tokens for instance) are guaranteed to the point where you know exactly how many times a dungeon needs to be done to get them. This is possibly the best reward structure in an MMO I have ever experienced.

I’m not forced to do anything I don’t want to do, and I can get anything I want. I’m also not being left in the dust for endgame gear because I’m a casual player. Anyone that complains about this rewards structure is being obtuse. If people can’t recognize the freedom this system provides to a wide variety of players, they simply haven’t moved on from archaic reward structures from other MMO’s.

It’s just silly. That’s the the Vanilla Wow argument. Oh pvp can battleground 10 hours a day for a year and still not get the best gear, while molten core players can play 4 hours a week for a few month and get the best gear.

I’m not sure what your point is … I haven’t played WoW and I’m not familiar with how it’s reward system works. I don’t see the connection between someone playing for a year and never getting gear is related to what I have said at all … I am in fact saying the opposite because of how the GW2 rewards are structured; The rewards you get doing anything in GW2 can go towards buying anything. Therefore, people can’t complain they aren’t able to get stuff if they haven’t put the time in to earn it doing any of the content available in the game. Care to try again or are you simply dismissive at this point because you have nothing?

Obtena.7952:

I’m not sure what your point is … I haven’t played WoW and I’m not familiar with how it’s reward system works. I don’t see the connection between someone playing for a year and never getting gear is related to what I have said at all … I am in fact saying the opposite because of how the GW2 rewards are structured; The rewards you get doing anything in GW2 can go towards buying anything. Therefore, people can’t complain they aren’t able to get stuff if they haven’t put the time in to earn it doing any of the content available in the game. Care to try again or are you simply dismissive at this point because you have nothing?

I’ll explain vanilla wow again. You can get the best gear in pvp also, it just take much more effort than pve.

So in the end pvp players spend 10 times more hours and get lesser reward than raiders.

Which is similar to the complaint here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Is-this-fun-Ask-yourself-post-r-love-story/first#post3994799

The guy spend 200 hours in GW2 for a few piece of exotic gear.

Sure you can get a legendary weapon from just doing wurm everyday, which probably take a few years, assuming he don’t spend any money. But it just isnt’ effective. If he spent those 200 hours doing something else, he probably have a legendary already.

And honestly I’m just whining. Since just like another person said, complaining about the reward structure is futile, since you need some major overhaul to change it, and I’m not sure if Anet think it is such a big deal to change it at this state of the game.

laokoko.7403:

Sure you can get a legendary weapon from just doing wurm everyday, which probably take a few years, assuming he don’t spend any money. But it just isnt’ effective. If he spent those 200 hours doing something else, he probably have a legendary already.

If ‘effective’ is a factor, you’re just after gold, then you obviously choose the most ‘effective’ reward path; content doesn’t matter to you.

If content does matter to people, they do content they enjoy; then ‘effective’ doesn’t matter. I really don’t get it … people are complaining that they have to do content they like MORE OFTEN to earn the same reward than content they hate LESS OFTEN.

WUT?

What if it’s content that I reallyreallyreally hate and don’t want to do, but it guarantees me a Precursor? Should I just argue that all content should guarantee a Precursor?

All content does guarantee a Precursor. You just need to do enough content for that guarantee.

Obtena.7952:

All content does guarantee a Precursor. You just need to do enough content for that guarantee.

In no possible way is this factual.

Essence Snow.3194:

Obtena.7952:

All content does guarantee a Precursor. You just need to do enough content for that guarantee.

In no possible way is this factual.

You can drop a precursor from random mob farming.
You can drop a precursor from champ farming.
You can drop a precursor from anything related to PvE.
You can drop a precursor from WvW karma train.
You can drop a precursor from player kills in WvW.
You can drop a precursor from Borderland kills.
You can drop a precursor from the Toilet.
You can drop a precursor from the Trade Post.
You can drop a precursor from Fractals (see 1-3).
You probably can drop a precursor from structured PvP, but that’s content I dont do, so not sure about it.

The only “content” you do not get a chance at a precursor from is strictly node farming.

Aidan Savage.2078:

Essence Snow.3194:

Obtena.7952:

All content does guarantee a Precursor. You just need to do enough content for that guarantee.

In no possible way is this factual.

You can drop a precursor from random mob farming.
You can drop a precursor from champ farming.
You can drop a precursor from anything related to PvE.
You can drop a precursor from WvW karma train.
You can drop a precursor from player kills in WvW.
You can drop a precursor from Borderland kills.
You can drop a precursor from the Toilet.
You can drop a precursor from the Trade Post.
You can drop a precursor from Fractals (see 1-3).
You probably can drop a precursor from structured PvP, but that’s content I dont do, so not sure about it.

The only “content” you do not get a chance at a precursor from is strictly node farming.

The person said guarantee, chance is not guarantee. And with such low odds, its not even a likely chance

All content I stated guarantees a precursor. That is immutable fact. What it does not guarantee, is whether or not you will actually be able to get that precursor before you stop playing GW2 or give up on a precursor/legendary. The fact you can get a precursor and the (false) fact that you will get a precursor are two obviously, and painfully so, distinctly different things. Players would do well to realize that without it needing to be repeated like they’re petulant children.

Aidan Savage.2078:

All content I stated guarantees a precursor. That is immutable fact. What it does not guarantee, is whether or not you will actually be able to get that precursor before you stop playing GW2 or give up on a precursor/legendary. The fact you can get a precursor and the (false) fact that you will get a precursor are two obviously, and painfully so, distinctly different things. Players would do well to realize that without it needing to be repeated like they’re petulant children.

Ehh, I have to disagree with that. That’s like claiming in real life “Everybody will be rich if they work long enough and save properly.” Yes, if people were immortal, that statement would be undeniable fact. But the reality is that poor circumstances (bad luck in-game) and death (new games come out, ANet shuts down GW2) will prevent the vast majority of these people from ever achieving that goal.

To the people on the other side of the fence: If you play GW2 a lot (and I’m talking like 2000+ hours sunk into the game), odds are good you WILL either get a Precursor, or have the funds to purchase one. But people just need to be aware that the road to getting a Legendary is a lot longer and harder than they might think. (Alternatively, if you want to skip past it altogether, there’s always the gems → gold + purchase it outright method.)