Guild Wars 2

1. MMOs are fantastic for this, especially GW2. There is nothing I can think of in the game that players can’t decide to enter into the market for because everything in the game you can just go get, there’s no stopping you.

Since the nov 15th patch, my account and the accounts of many, but not all, friends have been consistently receiving horrific drop rates from everything. (and I don’t even actively ‘farm’, I just try to play how I want)

The general consensus of the community is you cannot personally go out and enter the market as a supplier of anything due to DR mechanics.

2. There is imperfect information, but there is significantly less imperfect information than the real world.

Absolutely, This particular aspect does favor on GW2’s side vs the mess that is market research.

3. This isn’t unique to MMOs or the real world, neither are the actions associated with it. It’s possible I’m missing the point on this one.

Elasticity of demand in goods generally stems from divergent buyer motivations and from the capacity to substitute.

If you like the general “high tech clean white” look in your smartphones, you can get a galaxy series, an iphone, or certain razr series.

If you want a “flaming sword” look, you either multibox an ele or you have one choice: volcanus

This ties into point 4:

4. For this I would argue the opposite. MMOs are notorious for substitute goods. Especially when it comes to stats, I can change rarity, type, order of stats in a myriad of combinations with less than a 1% change in my total effectiveness. Switching to corn syrup causes significantly more than a 1% change in a product.

There are two points here, the impact of stats and the ability to substitute goods, but the counterpoint you are trying to make here is pointed at finished goods rather than ingredients.

There are answers for each of these:

First, there are plenty of substitutes for stats, but the point driven home with the nearly horizontal gear differential as that the real progression in this game is in building your character’s signature “look”.

Almost everything with a truly unique and striking look in this game is tied to a certain subset of lodestone types, which have rocketed into the stratosphere.

If people could substitute crystal lodestones for charged, it would be an example of the ingredient substitution I mentioned allowing more efficient production methods and lower prices to end consumers.

In keeping with my point about divergent consumer motivations, even if substitution were not put into crafting(150 of x or y or z), you could simply re-split the lodestone differential on these recipes to better distribute the popularity and close the massive price differential. From there the price could be targeted evenly.

In time, with enough different models with sufficient visual “pop”, the price of any individual skin like this will reduce, which will help with weapons like foefire’s essence, so long as lodestones can be kept stable and at target prices that are sane.

My Point Here, which is probably lost to all but the most attentive of readers:

At the end of the day, My target here is the assumption that anything resulting from “the free market” is, by nature of participation, “Just”. The problem is, in the majority of cases, there are spoilers to the “perfect market” and “free market” hypotheses, and then there’s the simple fact that economics itself is a tool to shape markets for outcomes we desire. It really ticks me off when people make that assertion of justice and act as apologists for human misery which can be alleviated with properly targeted intervention.
Imagine if the makers of the hindenberg did this: “It blew up, it’s made of hydrogen, yeah it’ll do that”. You could.. you know.. apply the science of chemistry.. fill it with helium instead to stop that from happening.

At the end of the day, the argument over the availability of these goods is a subjective one.

I and many others in this game do not find it “fun” that, thanks to lodestone prices being out of whack, the vast majority of exotics that are “visually striking” are mat-priced well above precursors and even approaching the sell price of legendaries, and other players calling us “entitled” for wanting to see an end in sight for acquiring one weapon skin out of a set of several which will be used on a given toon is also not helpful.

And yet, if people pay the price for lodestones to get a visual improvement, how is it different from a man buying a Ferrari only to drive at maximum speed? Your Ferrari isn’t faster than my Seat but you paid far more money for it. That is the whole point of the discussion.

The flaming sword gives bragging rights. Bragging rights come at an expense. As such, the high lodestone prices are entirely justified.

John Smith.4610:

The general consensus of the community is you cannot personally go out and enter the market as a supplier of anything due to DR mechanics.

I literally just asked people to stop doing this.

If you want a “flaming sword” look, you either multibox an ele or you have one choice: volcanus

This is an invalid argument. This is equivalent to saying if you want one specific item, and only that item, there are no substitutes. In the end, that may be true relative to the person, since the aesthetics are subjective. The equivalent comparison is someone wants an iphone and no other phone, then there are no substitutes, except in the case of GW2 the functionality is exactly the same.

consider it not mentioned again, but that unconfirmed bug is the elephant in the room.(for the record, the unbugged mechanic is the right thing to do, certainly better than lockouts)

As for the flaming sword: There could be other “flaming sword” models in the game.

I remember when they introduced transmog into wow there were at least 5 different alternative weapons to achieve the same general “theme”. They had some of xyz glow effect, but were very different weapons which all served the same “mood”.

I bet volcanus would be less vehemently demanded if there were a fiery version of that jotun greatsword (forgot the name, but it looks like what jotun’s carry and has swirling water).

I believe my point stands here in this regard.

You certainly don’t get an iphone when you get a 4s, but it still has similar characteristics. It’s sleek, white, and is almost all touchscreen.

Some themes, like the classic “soldier of light” theme, have plenty of options, for other themes there’s only one. Expansion on this regard would really help stem complaints on this front. We simply need more than one option for a given “theme”.

plasmacutter.2709:

As for the flaming sword: There could be other “flaming sword” models in the game.

I remember when they introduced transmog into wow there were at least 5 different alternative weapons to achieve the same general “theme”.

I bet volcanus would be less vehemently demanded if there were a fiery version of that jotun greatsword (forgot the name, but it looks like what jotun’s carry and has swirling water).

I believe my point stands here in this regard.

Yet it doesn’t. If you want a flaming sword, iPhone or Ferrari, you pay the premium, even if functionality is still the same. If you want “a cool weapon”, “a cool car” or “a cool phone”, your options would be far less limited. Your point is still invalid.

You certainly don’t get an iphone when you get a 4s, but it still has similar characteristics. It’s sleek, white, and is almost all touchscreen.

And yet iPhone is considered superior because of the price point alone. If there were other flaming weapons in the game, they’d just be considered “cheap” volcanic swords.

Not to mention there ARE alternatives to volcanic swords. They may not flame, but they have other effects that are just as cool. The only difference being … they are easy to get. And that’s the only reason you don’t want a ghastly sword instead of a volcanic. Making volcanic easier to get would just mean you won’t go for it.

plasmacutter.2709:

And yet iPhone is considered superior because of the price point alone. If there were other flaming weapons in the game, they’d just be considered “cheap” volcanic swords.

Not everyone is motivated by exclusivity, though many are. The point is to introduce other options to people that may be after the theme but not the specific item.

Not to mention there ARE alternatives to volcanic swords. They may not flame, but they have other effects that are just as cool.

Nothing underlies the menace of a necro than a full abyss arah light set paired with the horrifying.. the MENACING… bifrost : P ( a cool effect does not guarantee the unity of a wardrobe)

Making volcanic easier to get would just mean you won’t go for it.

So if someone rolled up to you in a brand new m5 and handed you the keys you’d refuse it because it’s “cheap”?

Woha, I can’t see what you don’t understand Plasma.
What they seem to be saying:
Cosmetics costs, rarity costs.
A car and an Iphone, smartphone none the less are expensive, so by saying no to a gift like that would be stupid, though you would be very suspicous over this charity.
However, what you seem to miss is that majority of the people would buy or accept an item wich have been spoken about alot in media and is very rare for someone to have rather than having a so called cheap clone of the item that is easy to get and almost everyone have.

This clone item is as good as the original looks more or less just like it but still majority would want the original, hence the price on the original will be higher than the clone and less people will own it.
If the price of the original item would plumit to the bottom everyone would get it and suddenly it’s not as important to have anymore.
Not many people would like to go around with the same stuff as everyone else have.

Some people want’s the so called end game stuff so show of since it’s hard to get, if this end game stuff was to be easy to get so some of those people would surely go ‘Waaah!! The stuff is to easy to get and everyone else have it, even the noob’s can get it it’s not fun anymore!’.

What was this thread about again?

This thread is about people that take NO effort at all to learn how the game works, alot of people are using the mystic forge combined with the trading post to make gold.. my method is 90% profitable from 10s to 10g if im a bit lucky. And no i wont tell how because i will destroy my own method, but you can trust me guys.. i do not buy and resell.

If you guys really want to make money you will have to do research in how to make it and not complain in numerous posts.

There is no toothfairy that brings you gold under your pillow people! Read Read Read, Google Google Google.. take some effort in it

EdgarMTanaka.7291:

plasmacutter.2709:

And yet iPhone is considered superior because of the price point alone. If there were other flaming weapons in the game, they’d just be considered “cheap” volcanic swords.

Not everyone is motivated by exclusivity, though many are. The point is to introduce other options to people that may be after the theme but not the specific item.

Not to mention there ARE alternatives to volcanic swords. They may not flame, but they have other effects that are just as cool.

Nothing underlies the menace of a necro than a full abyss arah light set paired with the horrifying.. the MENACING… bifrost : P ( a cool effect does not guarantee the unity of a wardrobe)

Making volcanic easier to get would just mean you won’t go for it.

So if someone rolled up to you in a brand new m5 and handed you the keys you’d refuse it because it’s “cheap”?

Woha, I can’t see what you don’t understand Plasma.
What they seem to be saying:
Cosmetics costs, rarity costs.
A car and an Iphone, smartphone none the less are expensive, so by saying no to a gift like that would be stupid, though you would be very suspicous over this charity.
However, what you seem to miss is that majority of the people would buy or accept an item wich have been spoken about alot in media and is very rare for someone to have rather than having a so called cheap clone of the item that is easy to get and almost everyone have.

This clone item is as good as the original looks more or less just like it but still majority would want the original, hence the price on the original will be higher than the clone and less people will own it.
If the price of the original item would plumit to the bottom everyone would get it and suddenly it’s not as important to have anymore.
Not many people would like to go around with the same stuff as everyone else have.

Some people want’s the so called end game stuff so show of since it’s hard to get, if this end game stuff was to be easy to get so some of those people would surely go ‘Waaah!! The stuff is to easy to get and everyone else have it, even the noob’s can get it it’s not fun anymore!’.

What was this thread about again?

This thread was about TP manipulation, and quickly focused in on lodestones, as those are the most egregious material costs in the game.

Your post is missing my point entirely on this topic, just as John did. If you produce enough competing models from disperate sources for a given “theme”, you will be able to maintain the signature characteristic of “this is expensive” on volcanus without locking the vast majority of the playerbase out of unity in their desired “look”. I’m not calling for “clones” either. I’d love to see other designs incorporating the general mood of given weapons while being otherwise as different as possible.

As for the crying about “everyone getting it”, again, it’s psychologically unhealthy to be proud of something only because you know it is denied to others, but many people seem to have bounded rationality in this way, hence what I am clarifying above.

As for me, I have no personal stake in volcanus. I think the thing his horrid. It is the best example though, as there are no other models which carry its underlying mood to act as alternatives.

John Smith.4610:

1. MMOs are fantastic for this, especially GW2. There is nothing I can think of in the game that players can’t decide to enter into the market for because everything in the game you can just go get, there’s no stopping you.

You can in fact not get a legendairy without the market, the droprates are far to low, even if the precursor was obtainable.

This is the sole reason so many people try to manipulate the market.

We need to get back to the point of “entitlement”. This isn’t an assumption or an accusation. It’s a simple fact that we human beings tend to lean towards better things than what we already have. We all deserve to have the best things this game can offer, but the difference here is who is willing to make the effort?

As a real world example (using extremes), say you own a Pinto, but you really want that Mustang. What would you do? You have the choices of living with the Pinto, and being happy with what you have. You can be jealous and angry at the guy driving the Mustang. Or you can work hard, and over time, afford to buy the Mustang for yourself.

Legendaries are a long term goal, much like wanting that Mustang. And you have different choices in game. You can be happy with your Rare or Exotic gear. You can be jealous and angry at the guy showing off his Twilight. Or you can work hard and craft a Legendary for yourself… over time. To add to the latter, farming monsters or playing the Trading Post are ways to achieve your goals.

Now as for the complaints about drop rates, that’s all in the eye of the beholder. If you play for 4 hours, and you don’t get what you want, don’t assume that everyone else is suffering. I played for 30 minutes, and got two Charged Lodestone drops from Sparks yesterday, but nothing today. Remember, monster drops are random from a table of available items. Just like with Black Lion chests. You may have gotten a drop that you don’t like, but that same item would make another player happy.

This segues into another point from Plasma. He mentions the “flaming sword” argument, where there are no alternatives to Volcanus. For those who have HoM from GW1, you get a free “flaming sword” as one of your rewards. But it’s not the same skin, much like how an iPhone is not the same as an HTC. You want it because it looks great, but are upset that you can’t own one easily.

Remember this – players collectively control prices on the TP. The market is based off of simple Supply vs. Demand. A lot of people want lodestones, coupled with the fact that they’re RARE, and this leads to higher prices. Why? Because sellers know people are willing to pay the price for the prestige.

And having Anet making something that is “Rare” more available isn’t a solution. It’s like the government saying “let’s print a lot more money and pass it out to everyone”. I’m sure most of us would have an idea of what would happen to the economy in that scenario.

I know it’s relatively off-topic but I just wanted to chime in and share my opinion regarding smooth penguin’s post: I work hard to get things I like in real life. This is a game, people don’t play games to “work hard”. Especially if the “hard work” is completing boring and mind-numbing tasks such as killing sparks over and over and over…

I don’t have any problems with vanity items being hard to get but I’d like something once in a while that rewards skill rather than farm and I’d also like some middle ground items that don’t cost 50g+. I played ( played, not farmed ) the game since launch with 3h+ per day, completed every dungeon, reached fractal lv 34, gotten 1k+ badges of honor and had great fun exploring the maps and completing JPs. All I’ve gotten is a crafted exo armor and dungeon weapons, plus 70g in my bank. Zero vanity items and the ability to buy, at best, one of them. If someone else spent as much time as I did farming the same mob/event like a bot, he would’ve gotten two legendaries. That’s just not right in my book.

As a real world example (using extremes), say you own a Pinto, but you really want that Mustang. What would you do? You have the choices of living with the Pinto, and being happy with what you have. You can be jealous and angry at the guy driving the Mustang. Or you can work hard, and over time, afford to buy the Mustang for yourself.

Legendaries are a long term goal, much like wanting that Mustang. And you have different choices in game. You can be happy with your Rare or Exotic gear. You can be jealous and angry at the guy showing off his Twilight. Or you can work hard and craft a Legendary for yourself… over time. To add to the latter, farming monsters or playing the Trading Post are ways to achieve your goals.

I think you have trouble comprehending what you write. There are likely some people, likely underage, in third-world countries that actually do WORK while PLAYING GAMES. I however, am not forced to work while playing games,, and would much rather enjoy ingame content, rather then work it. You know, skill-based challenges rather then time wasting on menial task such as ‘farming monsters or playing the Trading Post’. A simple bot can do them better. Which is also the reason we are seeing bot ban waves and DR – because content in this game is so simplistic.

And having Anet making something that is “Rare” more available isn’t a solution. It’s like the government saying “let’s print a lot more money and pass it out to everyone”. I’m sure most of us would have an idea of what would happen to the economy in that scenario.

What, tell me would happen if drop rates (of items required for highend craftables) were increased 10fold? 10 times that number of people would have them? Oh my thats terrible, and completly undesirable.

Please do tell me what terrible thing would happen if desirable items would be readily available to anyone who wants them, in a game thats about killing monsters and occasionally other players? Because the only thing i can foresee would be more players leaving the game out of boredom, which says a lot about the gameplay in this game, and the usefulness of ‘work’ you see in the game.

EDIT. I ll give you an example of a different game, that actually gets this right. In that game you can craft weapons (and items) out of materials you find. It takes time and effort, and a bit of luck to get rarer materials, but you could get the best in less then a day. And afterwards, or in the meantime, or even before, you can spend days and weeks and months actually playing the game, exploring, fighting or building structures you find interesting or attractive.

I find it strange that an indie game made by one person, achieves something that cannot be understood by AAA studio which forces players into treadmills, claiming those treadmills are fun, or a requirement for something you get out of them to be fun. Playing with mjolnir (as an example) is the objective and what will be considered fun. Farming 200 hours in one spot, by killing same 6-7 respawning monsters, to get items for mjolnir is not fun. Getting alternative ending in PoP:WW is fun – it requires actively playing the game to get it. Throwing countless exotics into mf is not fun. Do i need to go on?

This game, is about killing monsters, about explorations and slightly about interaction with others. Yet getting those ‘rare’ items has nothing to do with those. Instead, those ‘rare’ items are rare only by the virtue of being time-consuming to get. And in a setting that they are in – ie they are not a Ferrari in real life – but a skin item in a video game – they are gated behind uninteresting, barely related to the gameplay treadmill.

Fox.3469:

John Smith.4610:

1. MMOs are fantastic for this, especially GW2. There is nothing I can think of in the game that players can’t decide to enter into the market for because everything in the game you can just go get, there’s no stopping you.

You can in fact not get a legendairy without the market, the droprates are far to low, even if the precursor was obtainable.

This is the sole reason so many people try to manipulate the market.

And this is what ANet wanted to accomplish – by making the games core aspects focus on using the TP. Keeping the economy balanced = manipulating the economy. If ANet were to leave the economy be, then the only one who would lose out on this would be…you guessed it, ANET.

The rich will get richer and poor poorer. It does not matter how the source is manipulated – all it does is change the rate which this gap extends at.

Ok, I do have to take issue with the idea that you must use the tradepost to acquire a legendary. You must use the trade post if you want it fast and without risk, but you’re ultimately just buying someone else’s risk.

I am at 67 clovers, and I’ve bought 4 ectos, EVER. (and 2 of those went into crafting, not clover attempts)

I am at 60 to 110 of each of the tier 6 mats and I’ve NEVER bought a t6 material.

Will I get my legendary and more importantly to me the badge on the loading screen soon? No. But in one of the great examples of Slovotski’s Law #17 (you can never have the thing you want the most, so if you really want something try wanting it a little less…) I actually don’t care that much about getting a legendary. I progress towards it a little every day, but it’s a teritiary goal at best. I’m interested in Infinite Light, and so I farm sparks regularly. I’m interested in stats, and now have an ascended back and both rings of my choice on one of my 80s, and no back but both rings of my choice on my other 80 and several rings stockpiled for my gradually maturing alts.

Will I get any precursor I want before I’m done with all other aspects of the gifts? No, probably not, but I probably will have all other gifts stockpiled and ready to go when the scavenger hunt hits, and I still won’t have touched the TP to do so.

It is possible to look at a tactical environment/game and see that has become so thoroughly mastered by others that the best move is not to play. I feel that way about the TP frequently, but I try not to let that aversion taint the rest of my GW2 experience.

The Blue Ace.2850:

John Smith.4610:

GW2’s TP is by a wide margin less effectively manipulated than the other games mentioned in this thread.

Like I’m gonna believe that till you fix the lodestone imbalance!

You have to look at the supply on the TP, it’s declined, that isn’t to say the supply in game has declined it just high lights that people have been buying them from the TP and this has reduced the amount of the TP which means their price goes up….it’s not rocket science, you can put away your tin foil hat.

I think the problem you’re going to run into with these argument is, there isn’t anything that you “need” in this game that is difficult to get. I feel like Legendaries exist in this game only because they have to exist for it to be a true MMO. There is no advantage to having one. I guess I should say I feel that’s not the best thing… specifically I think that if you’re willing to put that much effort into something, you should get more than a fancy skin. But for the purposes of this game, you don’t need to do anything difficult to be able to function in a particular style for a given profession. It’s all superficial.

Sure, people have manipulated the game for great financial gain, which makes it impossible for the rest of us to compete with the inflation. A game like this almost provides the least amount of motivation for players to do this though, and always remember…. good things happen to bad people, but only for a while!

marnick.4305:

And yet iPhone is considered superior because of the price point alone. If there were other flaming weapons in the game, they’d just be considered “cheap” volcanic swords.

Not to mention there ARE alternatives to volcanic swords. They may not flame, but they have other effects that are just as cool. The only difference being … they are easy to get. And that’s the only reason you don’t want a ghastly sword instead of a volcanic. Making volcanic easier to get would just mean you won’t go for it.

Herein lies one of the divisions of the community. No everyone wants something because of its rarity. It may be true that a lot of iPhone buyers are drawn in by it being perceived as the luxury/status top end smart phone. But not everyone. Disclaimer, I don’t have a smartphone.

The same is true of skins. Not everyone is looking for the current rarest status symbol. Some are, some aren’t. Some are just looking for a theme. Its just because of Anet’s (essentially) arbitrary decision about what should be rare/hard to get that makes some people unlucky (in the sense, Anet designated their preferred style as rare). Another disclaimer – I don’t care for the flaming look, and even if I did, I could use the dragon sword from my HoM.

This is a core issue of Anet trying to satisfy too many types of gamers at once – trying for both the hardcore grinder extreme and the most casual of casuals. Anet can claim there’s only optional grind, but those that do the super grind are still skewing the market in various ways, which may or may not be compounded by some level of others trying to profit due to that skewing.

John Smith.4610:

The Blue Ace.2850:

John Smith.4610:

The Blue Ace.2850:

John Smith.4610:

I did not promise to do anything to lodestones, nor did that blog have anything to do with lodestones.

You were talking about balancing the market by adding more ways to get items if they were lacking places to get them in game.

And based on how many threads there are on the forums about this topic and how much they cost lodestones are clearly not balanced in this game.

Oh I’m sorry, please tell me what I was talking about in my blog. I didn’t mean to interrupt you, continue.

Again from your blog

“We’ve noticed several markets that are clearly out of sync in terms of supply and demand. It isn’t interesting or fun to have a market flooded with items that contain very little value, so we’re making adjustments to the game every day. Players can expect to see these markets even out over time.”

Just answer me this john, charged lodestones, does a.net consider this out of sync or not?

Because there have be many threads about this topic whether it stirs around manipulators, lack of supply or one lodestone being higher than the other.

I was making the point that you guys are working to balance the TP, on the topic of lodestones, I do not think they are, at all.

Your currently fixing precursors which are like 500 gold give or take,
And yet some people think that 430 gold for 100 charged lodestones is acceptable, what logic is that?!

I find this post disrespectful and rude. Until you learn to stop and think about what you’re asking, take in the information you have and make a logical question I’ll not be replying.

I’m really not sure what is so rude or disrespectful about what he wrote. The only rude portion is the quote attributed to you, which I cannot find you actually saying. So either it’s a deleted/edited comment or something the poster made up, which would have been quite disrespectful and rude I agree… But otherwise the statement has merit.

In fact, he’s doing what you ask. He’s making a logical question without overtly referencing popular opinion, or any other ‘logical fallacies’. Or at the very least the question is an obvious enough one to deserve a reasonable answer.

It boils down to pointing out just how expensive the Lodestone market is, especially so for certain Lodestones. To the point where some players Lodestones are more expensive than their precursors. 400+ gold for one part of a Gift definitely seems extreme to me. It would be one thing if I could reliably obtain them, but the RNG and Farming aspect makes me want to quit.

So then, the question is “Does ANet consider the Lodestone market an issue that needs to be addressed? If not, please explain.” I’m not asking you to validate my question as the proper one to be asking or to dismiss my reasons for asking. I don’t care about that because whether or not my logic or economical knowledge is lacking that doesn’t mean it’s not an issue for me. I would just like an answer, please.

To me attempting to get a Precursor/ Legendary at this point in time resembles participating in a Ponzi scheme which equates to starting at the bottom of a pyramid the size of Giza. The amount of time and/ or money investment required is outrageous.

Manipulation is part of the market, u will see that IRL, btw im economist and i like how the market is going

Tarvok.4206:

Hey, I’m curious about something. For those of you who feel the activities of active traders is negatively impacting your game… what exactly is it that you’re doing that is being impacted by this activity? I only ask because I honestly can’t figure out what the TP is for for those of us who’d rather avoid that sort of thing, given there are supplies of very good items that have nothing to do with it (karma, tokens, etc).

I don’t directly blame the power traders/manipulators. Other games I’ve played have had these sorts of people, but yet I was still able to obtain the stuff I wanted in a reasonable amount of time/effort. I’m more irritated at ANet for making drop rates so bad to the point we have to rely on making money to get things.. yet with the tactics of some on the TP we keep having to attempt to make more and more money. Basically I’m one of those who would rather use my time and effort to earn items than generically grind money to buy them from others. I support multiple routes to items but I don’t think ANet has realistically provided them in anywhere near an equal manner.

John Smith thinks we can just go get anything. I’d like to seem him gather for some of the special skins without using the TP and compare that process with people who can play the markets.

I think an example of what is being talked about here can be seen if you look at the corrupted lodestone market for the last week or two.

The price increase over night put me off forging a mystic forge exotic, so I thought I’d take a look at one of those trade post web tracker things. The first and only thing that poped into my mind was, I wonder how many people are trying to push up the price. Not, is supply and demand making that item more expensive. But, is someone trying to make me pay more for something because they want more gold, so they can do the same with another item.

If that was the case it’s not supply and demand, that’s creating a demand and holding people to ransom. In the example of phones and cars, their price is fixed, and someone-else selling or buying a Farrari or Iphone doesn’t then make the rest of them cost more.

The people that go out of their way to do this would be intruding on other peoples lives in an obviously negative fashion, but they could claim to be playing a part of the game that is exclusionary at it’s core. I haven’t seen an “advanced” tool tip or tutorial in the game showing the avarage 12 year old how to corner a market, or how to exploit people..

I’m not sure if the Anet staff have time to play their game as much as some of us do, or if they care about it in the same way. But if they were us, I wonder what they would be thinking about loot drops and the price of things they wanted… ( And that sylvari..)

To point out something about “manipulation” in the lodestone market. Let’s say that someone managed to buy all the corrupted lodestones and then put up 5 on the TP for 100 gold. What do you think would happen?

People would go farm lodestones, undercut the person who bought them all, and that person would lose a fortune. The true price of an item is the price where the forces of people wanting to buy it and people being sufficiently motivated to go and get it to sell it are balanced. Anytime the price deviates too much from this, it will move back. And like a rubber band, it will move back faster the further it is from this price.

If someone buys all of something and sells it at a higher price, and if the price stay high, that means the item was undervalued to begin with.

Am I the only one who desires lodestones for actual (rune/sigil) crafting purposes?

plasmacutter.2709:

As for the crying about “everyone getting it”, again, it’s psychologically unhealthy to be proud of something only because you know it is denied to others, but many people seem to have bounded rationality in this way, hence what I am clarifying above.

Are you an elementary school teacher? This statement is completely and utterly wrong. If you enter a state or national competition, are you not proud when you win a 1st place medal? You earned it over the other 1000 competitors. According to your logic, this is a ridiculous way to go about things. Everyone should have medals! It’s unhealthy to be proud of the fact that everyone else is denied a medal except yourself.

People already get their participation certificate: Full exotics are very easy to obtain with the money from a single 100% map completion. Legendaries give no additional stats, no additional game features, no additional anything. They are purely cosmetic. They can be thought of analogously to the first place trophy described above.

So no: legendaries should be exclusive only to the tip-top skilled and/or dedicated percentile of players who really “deserve” a weapon with the status of LEGENDARY. I know this grinds against your carebear elementary school mentality, but you have to accept that there is something in GW2 that can’t be obtained by your average no-lifer just ’cause he played ’lots.

edit: Working on my first legendary

greyblue.4962:

To point out something about “manipulation” in the lodestone market. Let’s say that someone managed to buy all the corrupted lodestones and then put up 5 on the TP for 100 gold. What do you think would happen?

People would go farm lodestones, undercut the person who bought them all, and that person would lose a fortune. The true price of an item is the price where the forces of people wanting to buy it and people being sufficiently motivated to go and get it to sell it are balanced. Anytime the price deviates too much from this, it will move back. And like a rubber band, it will move back faster the further it is from this price.

If someone buys all of something and sells it at a higher price, and if the price stay high, that means the item was undervalued to begin with.

Dispite your disposition I doubt you would go running out to buy “Fantasy Wall Street Trader On-line” if it was full of people who thought similarly to you.

This is the rub. Lodestones, as most of us know, are bloody rare. If an item is valued and rare and someone buys up what is being sold and consistantly buys people out without renewing the supply on the trade post, only collecting them, while mantaining higher buy orders they artificially create a false value. If you don’t care if you are making money back and just want what you have to seem more exclusive or desirable at the expense of others, your point is mute.

The community can seem a bit schizophrenic at times when talking about trading, some times it’s so easy to make gold, and other times it’s a secret… But always justifying themselves. Ironicaly all this does is lessen things value in other peoples eyes.

I would also like to say I’d prefer an NPC trader than all the BS that’s come along with the tp. The economist might be alright with the idea of moving goal posts, Anet might see it as a long term stratagy, but knowing I’m makeing some wheezle feel good about him-self for kittening up what would otherwise be, if used in the proper manner, something of convinience, just seems wrong.

Gold value of Corrupt lodestones last time I looked was 1G70, value to me at that point, 0. Anet doesn’t get to use it’s gold sink, and you don’t get my gold, and the world has less variety. But I was kind of hoping to have a fiery and icy dragon sword to duel wield while in LA… (Can’t wait to see what that looks like. If someone could post a screenie… ) No great loss though, the equipment that I have works…

Fox.3469:

John Smith.4610:

1. MMOs are fantastic for this, especially GW2. There is nothing I can think of in the game that players can’t decide to enter into the market for because everything in the game you can just go get, there’s no stopping you.

You can in fact not get a legendairy without the market, the droprates are far to low, even if the precursor was obtainable.

This is the sole reason so many people try to manipulate the market.

OK then john, go and try and farm 100 lodestones yourself and come back say that sentence again.

I freaking dare you.

The Blue Ace.2850:

Fox.3469:

John Smith.4610:

1. MMOs are fantastic for this, especially GW2. There is nothing I can think of in the game that players can’t decide to enter into the market for because everything in the game you can just go get, there’s no stopping you.

You can in fact not get a legendairy without the market, the droprates are far to low, even if the precursor was obtainable.

This is the sole reason so many people try to manipulate the market.

OK then john, go and try and farm 100 lodestones yourself and come back say that sentence again.

I freaking dare you.

Whoa, someone’s angry he can’t get his legendaries quickly.

You can farm 100 lodestones by the way. Imagine if you got 1 drop of charged lodestone in a day. (minimal. I usually get 2-3 lodestone and cores a day from fractals/CoE runs).

It’ll take you 100 days to get it all.

Which is reasonable for a legendary. I imagine I will take a year or 2 to finish mine, going at my own pace.

Unless you think that’s ridiculous? Judging by your posts, yea, I imagine you think you shouldn’t have to work so hard to get a legendary.

But yea, I’m in complete agreement with Mr. Smith. I don’t play the market. I just do my own thing, do dungeons, fractals, some open world PvE farming when I feel like it…And in my 3-4 months of play (since release) I’ve saved up 400G, with lots of material in my bank. Legendaries are my goal, and I’ve accepted the fact that it’ll take me about a year to get it.

Just because you don’t seem to be willing to put in the time/effort to farm those lodestones, doesn’t mean others aren’t doing it.

Ursan.7846:

The Blue Ace.2850:

Fox.3469:

John Smith.4610:

1. MMOs are fantastic for this, especially GW2. There is nothing I can think of in the game that players can’t decide to enter into the market for because everything in the game you can just go get, there’s no stopping you.

You can in fact not get a legendairy without the market, the droprates are far to low, even if the precursor was obtainable.

This is the sole reason so many people try to manipulate the market.

OK then john, go and try and farm 100 lodestones yourself and come back say that sentence again.

I freaking dare you.

Whoa, someone’s angry he can’t get his legendaries quickly.

You can farm 100 lodestones by the way. Imagine if you got 1 drop of charged lodestone in a day. (minimal. I usually get 2-3 lodestone and cores a day from fractals/CoE runs).

It’ll take you 100 days to get it all.

Which is reasonable for a legendary. I imagine I will take a year or 2 to finish mine, going at my own pace.

Unless you think that’s ridiculous? Judging by your posts, yea, I imagine you think you shouldn’t have to work so hard to get a legendary.

Actually I don’t care.

I just think someone in the design department wasn’t thinking straight when they made all the decent looking legendarys require charged lodestones which can only be got from a temple that is never open.

While all the other lodestones can be picked up off mobs that are always out and about.

The Blue Ace.2850:

Actually I don’t care.

Hahahahaha. No, I’m pretty sure you do care and that’s why you’re throwing such a tantrum while accusing devs (economists) of stating things they actually haven’t and still replying to Mr. Smith when you, in your own words, left.

The Blue Ace.2850:

charged lodestones which can only be got from a temple that is never open.

That is a false statement. Do your research.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Charged_Lodestone

CoE chests and mobs in Solid Fractal drop Charged Lodestones. I can confirm because I have personally gotten them from both locations.

Also lets not ignore Cores too, they drop also in other areas.

Ursan.7846:

The Blue Ace.2850:

Actually I don’t care.

Hahahahaha. No, I’m pretty sure you do care and that’s why you’re throwing such a tantrum while accusing devs (economists) of stating things they actually haven’t and still replying to Mr. Smith when you, in your own words, left.

The Blue Ace.2850:

charged lodestones which can only be got from a temple that is never open.

That is a false statement. Do your research.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Charged_Lodestone

CoE chests and mobs in Solid Fractal drop Charged Lodestones. I can confirm because I have personally gotten them from both locations.

Also lets not ignore Cores too, they drop also in other areas.

How many lodestones did you get from CoE? 5? Don’t make me laugh.

I only replied to johns comment because he straight out said that you could easily get any item out in the game. This is not true and here are about 10 threads on the fourms who think so too.

Stop trolling John. He’s one of the 2 devs that actually interact with the community. At this point if you don’t understand the concept(s) discussed you are either intentionally trolling or incapable of processing the information.

IDK why you guys want to be so annoying that yet another dev decides to stop reading forums.

The Blue Ace.2850:

How many lodestones did you get from CoE? 5? Don’t make me laugh.

1 lodestone or 5 lodestones, doesn’t matter. Your statement is still false.

The Blue Ace.2850:

I only replied to johns comment because he straight out said that you could easily get any item out in the game. This is not true and here are about 10 threads on the fourms who think so too.

Yea, at this point you’re just trolling. Please point out where Mr. Smith said “you could easily get any item out in the game.” Of course this isn’t true. You should really stop putting words in people’s mouth and yelling how wrong it is when no one’s said it in the first place.

Mmmm nope, I still don’t fine the word “easy” in any of his posts. Care to point it out to me? Because it seems you’re an expert in what Mr. Smith is trying to say.

Ursan.7846:

The Blue Ace.2850:

How many lodestones did you get from CoE? 5? Don’t make me laugh.

1 lodestone or 5 lodestones, doesn’t matter. Your statement is still false.

The Blue Ace.2850:

I only replied to johns comment because he straight out said that you could easily get any item out in the game. This is not true and here are about 10 threads on the fourms who think so too.

Yea, at this point you’re just trolling. Please point out where Mr. Smith said “you could easily get any item out in the game.” Of course this isn’t true. You should really stop putting words in people’s mouth and yelling how wrong it is when no one’s said it in the first place.

Mmmm nope, I still don’t fine the word “easy” in any of his posts. Care to point it out to me? Because it seems you’re an expert in what Mr. Smith is trying to say.

“1. MMOs are fantastic for this, especially GW2. There is nothing I can think of in the game that players can’t decide to enter into the market for because everything in the game you can just go get, there’s no stopping you.”

Except the tiny drop rate, lack of places and forced groups.

Xynn.2748:

Stop trolling John. He’s one of the 2 devs that actually interact with the community. At this point if you don’t understand the concept(s) discussed you are either intentionally trolling or incapable of processing the information.

IDK why you guys want to be so annoying that yet another dev decides to stop reading forums.

Why? First he dodges my question and calls me the rude one, then he goes around saying everything is fine when its not.

You know, if you don’t find yourself able to farm those lodestones just buy em from the tp. You need to adapt to the game not the other way around. If you are unable to do this maybe you should consider doing something else instead.

Oh and btw.

saying everything is fine when its not.

This is just your opinion nothing more.

Nozdrum.2894:

You know, if you don’t find yourself able to farm those lodestones just buy em from the tp.

No.

Why should I give my gold to the Manipulators.
Wasn’t that the whole point of this thread.

The Blue Ace.2850:

Ursan.7846:

The Blue Ace.2850:

I only replied to johns comment because he straight out said that you could easily get any item out in the game. This is not true and here are about 10 threads on the fourms who think so too.

Yea, at this point you’re just trolling. Please point out where Mr. Smith said “you could easily get any item out in the game.” Of course this isn’t true. You should really stop putting words in people’s mouth and yelling how wrong it is when no one’s said it in the first place.

Mmmm nope, I still don’t fine the word “easy” in any of his posts. Care to point it out to me? Because it seems you’re an expert in what Mr. Smith is trying to say.

“1. MMOs are fantastic for this, especially GW2. There is nothing I can think of in the game that players can’t decide to enter into the market for because everything in the game you can just go get, there’s no stopping you.”

Except the tiny drop rate, lack of places and forced groups.

Still no “easily” in his statement.

If one could “easily” go get everything in the game, would you be happy?

RoyHarmon.5398:

The Blue Ace.2850:

Ursan.7846:

The Blue Ace.2850:

I only replied to johns comment because he straight out said that you could easily get any item out in the game. This is not true and here are about 10 threads on the fourms who think so too.

Yea, at this point you’re just trolling. Please point out where Mr. Smith said “you could easily get any item out in the game.” Of course this isn’t true. You should really stop putting words in people’s mouth and yelling how wrong it is when no one’s said it in the first place.

Mmmm nope, I still don’t fine the word “easy” in any of his posts. Care to point it out to me? Because it seems you’re an expert in what Mr. Smith is trying to say.

“1. MMOs are fantastic for this, especially GW2. There is nothing I can think of in the game that players can’t decide to enter into the market for because everything in the game you can just go get, there’s no stopping you.”

Except the tiny drop rate, lack of places and forced groups.

Still no “easily” in his statement.

If one could “easily” go get everything in the game, would you be happy?

Theres easy, acceptable and then the current system.
I’m with the acceptable group.

There are places in frostgorge sound where you can get corrupt lodestones without having to do a group event. This isn’t the case with charged lodestones.

So for a start they could make it so the sparks in orr are always there.
Then maybe there won’t be a huge 3 gold gap in the prices.

It sure was, but the last couple of posts were all about charged lodestones and how insane it is to farm them.
What it boils down to is that you believe that charged lodestones :
* do not drop enough
* have a high price on the tp because of market-manipulation

And therefore find yourself unable to get your lodestones.
But if you look at both statements together it starts making sense.
They are high in price because they do not drop as often as other lodestones. Or rather the dungeons that are being farmed regularly do not drop the lodestones you are looking for. Also many items require charged lodestones and thus the high demand.
For example why are molten cores and lodestones so cheap? Because everyone is farming cof p1. Why are glacial cores and lodestones so cheap? There are not many recipes that need those lodestones.
But this does not interest you I guess.
Like I said before if you are not able to adapt, go do something else.
You want something. There are (imho)enough ways to get them. You are not capable of doing so or do not want to → You won’t get it no matter how much you brag about it.

Xynn.2748:

Stop trolling John. He’s one of the 2 devs that actually interact with the community. At this point if you don’t understand the concept(s) discussed you are either intentionally trolling or incapable of processing the information.

IDK why you guys want to be so annoying that yet another dev decides to stop reading forums.

This, seriously. John, we really appreciate having you on the forums to share information and ideas. I hope people who can’t discuss politely don’t drive you away.

I respect the point that just because there’s a market doesn’t mean the achievement process is fun or fair. That said, anyone who wants to claim that there is market manipulation going on needs a lot better evidence than short-term price spikes or highly-demanded items being expensive.

I’ve read all the “evidence” in this thread, and none of it amounts to more than theorizing that some invisible cabal is driving prices higher. It’s irresponsible to accuse John, or ANet, of facilitating market manipulation if it’s something you can’t demonstrate exists.

If you think charged lodestones are too expensive, join the club. They’re used in cool items and drop either from a difficult dungeon or an unfun farm. I’d be happy if ANet increased the drop rate or added more ways to get those items. I’d also be happy if less stuff in GW2 required money in the first place (sorry, John!) since I think too much of the achievement in this fantastically huge and varied world boils down to making gold as fast as you can. None of that means there’s any evidence for market manipulation.

There would be no market manipulation if legendaries were obtainable in the same way acsended rings are obtainable. The huge volume of items required to forge the legendary is the sole driver behind market power trading.

John understands that without constant item demand there would be such a glut in supply of items on the TP that everything would be selling at vendor price.

In order for a market to exist you need demand because supply just pops into existance in the game world.

The trick is how to create demand.

What the game developers don’t seem to understand is that when they make items so hard to get people will just giveup on them and perhaps even quit the game. I played GW1 for 6 years. I doubt I’ll be doing so in this case. If I can’t reach the top ill settle for less….and less means I won’t be investing in the cashshop anymore. I bought the game so I might as well play it….casually….my days of cashshop expenses are over.

OmniPotentes.4817:

What the game developers don’t seem to understand is that when they make items so hard to get people will just giveup on them and perhaps even quit the game. I played GW1 for 6 years. I doubt I’ll be doing so in this case. If I can’t reach the top ill settle for less….and less means I won’t be investing in the cashshop anymore. I bought the game so I might as well play it….casually….my days of cashshop expenses are over.

Are you proposing all items be easy to get?

Also I’m not sure what GW1 has to do with anything. Because there were lots of rare, hard-to-get cosmetic items in GW1. I worked my kitten off for 2 years to get my Vabbian Armor/Tormented Shield/Voltaic Spear.

And GW2 is the exact same. It’s hard to get cosmetic items.

Ursan.7846:

OmniPotentes.4817:

What the game developers don’t seem to understand is that when they make items so hard to get people will just giveup on them and perhaps even quit the game. I played GW1 for 6 years. I doubt I’ll be doing so in this case. If I can’t reach the top ill settle for less….and less means I won’t be investing in the cashshop anymore. I bought the game so I might as well play it….casually….my days of cashshop expenses are over.

Are you proposing all items be easy to get?

Also I’m not sure what GW1 has to do with anything. Because there were lots of rare, hard-to-get cosmetic items in GW1. I worked my kitten off for 2 years to get my Vabbian Armor/Tormented Shield/Voltaic Spear.

And GW2 is the exact same. It’s hard to get cosmetic items.

Its either hard or easy to you isn’t it?

No theres a difference between hard and not worth it.
Again, those 100 charged lodestones are 430 gold, the price of a precursor. (give or take)
And yet a.net feels they have to fix precursors.

Am I getting through to any body yet?

Ursan.7846:

OmniPotentes.4817:

What the game developers don’t seem to understand is that when they make items so hard to get people will just giveup on them and perhaps even quit the game. I played GW1 for 6 years. I doubt I’ll be doing so in this case. If I can’t reach the top ill settle for less….and less means I won’t be investing in the cashshop anymore. I bought the game so I might as well play it….casually….my days of cashshop expenses are over.

Are you proposing all items be easy to get?

Also I’m not sure what GW1 has to do with anything. Because there were lots of rare, hard-to-get cosmetic items in GW1. I worked my kitten off for 2 years to get my Vabbian Armor/Tormented Shield/Voltaic Spear.

And GW2 is the exact same. It’s hard to get cosmetic items.

Exactly what the poster above said. Not worth it!

OmniPotentes.4817:

Ursan.7846:

OmniPotentes.4817:

What the game developers don’t seem to understand is that when they make items so hard to get people will just giveup on them and perhaps even quit the game. I played GW1 for 6 years. I doubt I’ll be doing so in this case. If I can’t reach the top ill settle for less….and less means I won’t be investing in the cashshop anymore. I bought the game so I might as well play it….casually….my days of cashshop expenses are over.

Are you proposing all items be easy to get?

Also I’m not sure what GW1 has to do with anything. Because there were lots of rare, hard-to-get cosmetic items in GW1. I worked my kitten off for 2 years to get my Vabbian Armor/Tormented Shield/Voltaic Spear.

And GW2 is the exact same. It’s hard to get cosmetic items.

Exactly what the poster above said. Not worth it!

Thank you, its nice to know someone is listening.

The Blue Ace.2850:

Ursan.7846:

OmniPotentes.4817:

What the game developers don’t seem to understand is that when they make items so hard to get people will just giveup on them and perhaps even quit the game. I played GW1 for 6 years. I doubt I’ll be doing so in this case. If I can’t reach the top ill settle for less….and less means I won’t be investing in the cashshop anymore. I bought the game so I might as well play it….casually….my days of cashshop expenses are over.

Are you proposing all items be easy to get?

Also I’m not sure what GW1 has to do with anything. Because there were lots of rare, hard-to-get cosmetic items in GW1. I worked my kitten off for 2 years to get my Vabbian Armor/Tormented Shield/Voltaic Spear.

And GW2 is the exact same. It’s hard to get cosmetic items.

Its either hard or easy to you isn’t it?

No theres a difference between hard and not worth it.
Again, those 100 charged lodestones are 430 gold, the price of a precursor. (give or take)
And yet a.net feels they have to fix precursors.

Am I getting through to any body yet?

Yeah man, I just finished creating my Mjolnir yesterday, and it was a pain in the kitten to make. Been playing it since launch and it took several months to put together the kitten lodestones.

This is insane. I could have put together a Legendary by now EASILY compared to the sheer DRUDGERY it took to farm & buy all the stones.

I don’t ever want to see another Lightning Elemental again…

And now legendaries aren’t so legendary anymore. You got 2 of almost every type of Legendary for sale on the TP. There’s even an Eternity or two in there.

disclaimer: Not an economist or really even arguing a position yet. Just laying out the problem in my head and posting the result.

GW2 should allow as many people to enjoy the game as possible but it should recognize extraordinary players in visible ways. I like the way Legendary Weapons work insofar as they don’t offer a massive stat boost to whoever wields it – they’re small advantages coupled with highly visible looks. Having ventured into WvW for the past week, I’ve already seen legendaries crop up with regularity. Making legendaries more common would reduce its value as a mark of recognition so I don’t support that. On the flip side, I feel that making the current set of legendaries more difficult to acquire after the fact by reducing drop rates for its components doesn’t sit well with me either.

As for market manipulation… Normally, buying up stocks of goods when prices are low and releasing when prices are high tends to even out prices and overall reduces the amount of gold in circulation. This is beneficial to those with less information (ie the vast majority of players whose lives do not revolve around GW2’s TP) and increases trust in gold as a currency by counteracting inflation (trading in goods creates abundance by spreading the goods to those who need them and sinks gold due to TP fees). I personally find this a preferable situation to having to hunt down information as to what the next hotcake is so I can buy into it with what gold I have for fear that gold will drop in overall value (ie inflation).

If the situation is reaching a point where some commodities (like ectoplasm) are becoming better as currency than gold due to sustained increase in price, then you are basically punishing people for using currency as a store of value. This is undesireable if only for the amount of drama and upset countenances this will cause. From the perspective of someone who rolls with Rares, who would never dream of getting a legendary weapon and has no plans to really get into crafting, rariefied consumables like lodestones and cores are worthless. I have a handful sitting in my vault right now that someone could be using but if I think that their value will continue to rise (or at least not fall if I expect gold’s value to drop), I will opt to hold onto them instead and that will cause prices to tend upwards some more, causing more people to pause and think whether to sell or hang onto them.

Now, one rational response to this is for “farmers” (in as non-pejorative a sense as I can manage; these are people who see something is in demand and go run dungeons to get it – we need these guys) to increase production. They do this because it is getting more profitable for them to do so.

1) Is there a global limit to supply? If so, the cumulative production of the commodity is limited no matter how many people try to farm it. (If not, that means the production of said good increases more or less linearly the more people try to farm it.)

2) Is having gw2lfg filled with listings for LF2M Core Farm Skip All Mobs a phenomenon that we want?

3) If the good is farmable only in the current dungeons, that is a barrier to entry of a sort. GW2 dungeons have a reputation for being very challenging. This limits the potential to supply.

Then, we have the second rational response, which is for a player to dump money into gems and buy gold. This tends to decrease the value of gold, increase the value of the good further and generally make things worse for the everyplayer.

Sorry, just to add to what I said earlier, since GW1 has been brought up.

An Icy Dragon Sword was a world drop that supposedly only droped in one place. When I heard about it when it was introduced, I went there to find groups of warriors running to the imps and needing about 4 of them. After going out a couple of times with pugs I decided to try and solo the area. My reward the first time one droped was another, and as a max level player it didn’t take close to a few hunded hours of gameplay to feel like I created a challenge for my self, and achived something that ment more to me than “35k(GWc)”.

The same can be said for beating the old/new hall of heros and reciving one of those weapons like a Victos axe/shield.

But when I heard about chaos gloves, I kinda laughed under my breath at what the game had become.

In GW2 the world weapon drops at an exotic level hardly ever happen in my experience, and the homage weapons are geared towards the chaos glove end of the market rather than the “I just soloed a Wings Axe my first time out in this zone, when I got futher than the first mob…”.

I can imagin in an up-comming expansion we can hope to see the ability to lend other people money and charge lots of intrest? I’m sure those who are already above the curve would love to see this added..

Darque Intent.1674:

Sorry, just to add to what I said earlier, since GW1 has been brought up.

An Icy Dragon Sword was a world drop that supposedly only droped in one place. When I heard about it when it was introduced, I went there to find groups of warriors running to the imps and needing about 4 of them. After going out a couple of times with pugs I decided to try and solo the area.

THIS

This is what I want to do! I want to go out each day and kill a few mobs here and there, but I can’t.

You know why? Because the Orr temples. Thats why.
Outside the dungeons this is the only place we can get charged lodestones.