Guild Wars 2

…and while this may be good to the community as whole, it is not that good for the players as individuals.

• The drop rates for quality items are too low.
• Dungeon tokens become outdated due to ascended gear.
• Mastering crafting disciplines used to be something for everybody, now is hardcore zone.
• Legendaries… enough have been said about them.

The masses are driven to FS champion train or dungeon speed clears.

So far I can only think of one thing that shows off for how “good” player you are, and that is the mini Liadri.

I know that I am part of a minority, but please, for this minority, give us more Liadris and less farming and TP playing.

Let me share with you what a playing session looks like now:

Me: Hey, somebody doing something?
Player A: Nah, I still have to run through all of Orr with three more toons to collect all the nodes.
Player B: Hey, does somebody have some linen? where I can farm it?
Me: Well, does somebody want to do some dungeon?
Player C: I already run CoF 1 today, sorry
Player Sure, let’s speed clear CoE, all paths, bring a zerker warrior
Me: But my warrior does not have exotic gear yet
Player oh sorry then
Me: OK, I’ll do some solo queue then… 4vs4 here I go… all is vain
log off

I may just miss the time when we were still discovering dungeons and got frustrated for how difficult they used to be, and learnt how to beat them… I’d love to see difficult content for groups, I want to play with my guild again instead of waiting for they farming for their third ascended weapon.

Sorry for the rant >.< I just had a bad day :p

I don’t disagree with you. Having the TP allows for the drop rate of stuff to be reduced. While the goal may have been to allow you to do what you like, trade it for gold, and buy what you want, in reality, buying something just isn’t the same as finding it.

I think I have to disagree about what proves you are a good player. “Been there. Done that” is one such way. Any of the puzzle jumping titles is another, achievement points cannot just be easy stuff, you have to work, so large (over 5,000) points are indicative of a solid player. And finally, WvW or PvP. Human against human play will tell you if you are any good or not.

Farming is farming, 60 people whacking at Tequatl doesn’t make them good players, I agree, even though the mechanics on that dragon are pretty nasty. But if you can stay alive fighting a perma stealth thief or take down a large number of opponents via roaming or even the zerg, that would make me think you were a good player.

Apolyon.6937:

…and while this may be good to the community as whole, it is not that good for the players as individuals.

• The drop rates for quality items are too low.
• Dungeon tokens become outdated due to ascended gear.
• Mastering crafting disciplines used to be something for everybody, now is hardcore zone.
• Legendaries… enough have been said about them.

The masses are driven to FS champion train or dungeon speed clears.

The TP is integral to the game and is vitally important for a modern-based MMO. Without the TP, you would have to resort to many other gold sinks in game. How would you like a 50s repair bill for each piece of armor? Fixed WP costs of 10s each? WvW queue fees?

Regarding your comment on quality items being too low, well, why do you think they are considered quality? It’s because they are rare and infrequent drops. If everyone could get 100 Charged Lodestones in an hour, do you think we would be using that item as a basis of comparison for a quality item? No. It would be worthless. And even then, if Anet were to increase drop rates by 5-fold, this would result in the desired item crafted from it losing value. Anet could then increase the amount required, but we would be going in circles.

Master crafting is called that for a reason. It could be cheaper, but I don’t mind each discipline costing at least 100G to master.

What about legendaries?

When the solution to every “where to I get…” question is “Champ farm gold and buy it off the TP,” the game has moved from being a game to being a real-life simulator.

Lord Kuru.3685:

When the solution to every “where to I get…” question is “Champ farm gold and buy it off the TP,” the game has moved from being a game to being a real-life simulator.

The continued existence of players supplying the items these people farming champ trains are buying is proof enough that there’s plenty of people who actually don’t care about optimally achieving everything.

It’s really what you make of the game. Is the TP the most optimal way of getting (non-account bound) things? Yes. This will be true no matter how high/low drop rates are. If charged Lodestones dropped every 4th monster it would be dirt cheap (probably vendor-level prices) and it would still be faster to buy 100 of them instead of killing 400 monsters.

It’s what the free market is. Ultimately, players feeling the pressure to use the TP is good, since it means there’s demand the goods other players are selling on the TP. This leads to a healthy economy. GW2 was designed with this type uber-efficient free market in mind. If this bothers you that much, enough for you to stop viewing this game as a “game,” perhaps this game isn’t for you.

Random loot drops it SOP in every RPG I’ve ever played. And naturally not all of that loot is correct for your player. The TP is a means of getting that unwanted gear into the right hands.

Vol.7601:

Apolyon.6937:

…and while this may be good to the community as whole, it is not that good for the players as individuals.

• The drop rates for quality items are too low.
• Dungeon tokens become outdated due to ascended gear.
• Mastering crafting disciplines used to be something for everybody, now is hardcore zone.
• Legendaries… enough have been said about them.

The masses are driven to FS champion train or dungeon speed clears.

The TP is integral to the game and is vitally important for a modern-based MMO. Without the TP, you would have to resort to many other gold sinks in game. How would you like a 50s repair bill for each piece of armor? Fixed WP costs of 10s each? WvW queue fees?

I don’t think the OP is arguing for no TP just about the particular implementation of it in GW2. And I would agree with the OP, the economic side of the game is very much focussed on the market as a whole and not for the benefit of individual players except for the minigame that is TP flipping.

The OP has it wrong. The game doesn’t rely heavily on the TP, only the impatient players who wants everything quickly and conveniently.

What you are describing is what happens to players when they have exhausted the gameplay to a point where the rewards are by far the dominant motivator.

Doing dungeons is fun, for their own sake – the first time. Each repetition is less interesting than the last, until the point where you don’t even like what you’re doing anymore, but you keep doing CoF1 every day because if you repeat it 1000 times you can get the glowing sword and that’s really what’s keeping you motivated to play.

This isn’t a problem with the TP; without long term, expensive rewards many of the players sticking around just to farm would have quit the game long ago. The problem is that you need a different peer group to find the gameplay you desire.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

The OP has it wrong. The game doesn’t rely heavily on the TP, only the impatient players who wants everything quickly and conveniently.

Like all those impatient people who were too impatient to farm those 15,000 candy corns for the Halloween pail?

Lord Kuru.3685:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

The OP has it wrong. The game doesn’t rely heavily on the TP, only the impatient players who wants everything quickly and conveniently.

Like all those impatient people who were too impatient to farm those 15,000 candy corns for the Halloween pail?

Honestly, was the reward SO good that it was worth collecting 15K of candy corn? I looked at the requirement and said “yea, not happening” and then ignored it.

Lord Kuru.3685:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

The OP has it wrong. The game doesn’t rely heavily on the TP, only the impatient players who wants everything quickly and conveniently.

Like all those impatient people who were too impatient to farm those 15,000 candy corns for the Halloween pail?

No, he means all the impatient people that farm the more common mats to make things like ascended gear, etc… Your n=1 example is flawed.

Anyone who has read any of my posts knows I think this game relies way too much on the trading post. Do I think the TP is a good thing?……Yes. Too much of a good thing?….Yes.

I definitely agree that getting something as a drop is more fun than farming gold and buying off the TP. It’s not even close imo. Such heavy reliance on the comes with a flip side of the coin less drops, or in my case and many others, less fun. More items in place for less coin would greatly benefit this game imo.

And without question there needs to be some regulation on trading.

Essence Snow.3194:

And without question there needs to be some regulation on trading.

JS will never let that happen.

Teege.4623:

Essence Snow.3194:

And without question there needs to be some regulation on trading.

JS will never let that happen.

trust me…he will as the population in game will drop further and they will start wondering why….

So … you’re going to attribute drop in people due to a lack of trading regulation? Is this for real?

Obtena.7952:

So … you’re going to attribute drop in people due to a lack of trading regulation? Is this for real?

a broken economy is the main cause of many mmorpg failure….should be obvious.

The difference is that if in some mmorpg the economy is in the hand of gold sellers, while here is in the hands of few speculators…

What i think JS still didn t get is that it makes no difference for most players who is ruining their game…

p.S. before even attempt to say gw2 economy is fine you may want to look Google…you ll find many other economists opinion on the game…..

LordByron.8369:

Obtena.7952:

So … you’re going to attribute drop in people due to a lack of trading regulation? Is this for real?

a broken economy is the main cause of many mmorpg failure….should be obvious.

The difference is that if in some mmorpg the economy is in the hand of gold sellers, while here is in the hands of few speculators…

What i think JS still didn t get is that it makes no difference for most players who is ruining their game…

p.S. before even attempt to say gw2 economy is fine you may want to look Google…you ll find many other economists opinion on the game…..

Really? You think a broken economy is the major factor?

I don’t know about you, but maybe the game itself is a major factor. If the game lacks content, especially end game content, then it’s going to fail.

Not the economy. Not even close.

And please point me to these real world economists that actually talk about this game, aside from pretend economists like you and myself.

Vol.7601:

LordByron.8369:

Obtena.7952:

So … you’re going to attribute drop in people due to a lack of trading regulation? Is this for real?

a broken economy is the main cause of many mmorpg failure….should be obvious.

The difference is that if in some mmorpg the economy is in the hand of gold sellers, while here is in the hands of few speculators…

What i think JS still didn t get is that it makes no difference for most players who is ruining their game…

p.S. before even attempt to say gw2 economy is fine you may want to look Google…you ll find many other economists opinion on the game…..

Really? You think a broken economy is the major factor?

Why are you asking the most obvious thing in mmorpgs history?
Why do you even think anet hired an economist in his staff?

P.S. Google is your friend or even the search function of this forum.
I m not answering obvious things any more.

I’m sorry, just cause you say it doesn’t mean it’s fact. I can’t prove it but it’s common sense that the main reason people don’t play games anymore is because it’s not FUN. Doesn’t matter if we’re talking just MMOs. It’s about games in general.

And they hired an economist because they wanted someone to monitor the economy and make sure it doesn’t falter. Not because it faltered and they wanted someone to clean it up. If you fail to realize that then I’m just wasting my time.

I agree, the economy in the game is precipitous at best and we are running at a huge inflation level. This really means your gold, while most of you likely have more of it, is worth HALF of what it was in July. Take a look on a TP tracking site (gw2spidy for example) and price out a few precursors from July to now and tell me what you find. Their prices have doubled in 6 months. Silk scraps going for close to 2 silver? You can argue the ascended weaponry is driving that but nonetheless, all TP items are over valued (in gold or gems) and we are headed for a crash, IMO.

This doesn’t destroy the game in any way and those who have gold should hold it as the value WILL be returning when the crash happens and it will happen.

Not that this is economics class but we get this big surge at the holidays, tons of speculation and then the gem cards given as gifts run out, the game has less money feeding the system and this causes an immediate dropping of prices because the average player cannot fund the gold they need via gems, they have to farm it. ANet doesn’t make as much money so they increase their prices to offset the loss (this has been steadily happening for months). You can see the cyclical nature of this paradigm, one begets the other until we reach a bottom.

See recent history in the finance and real estate markets for what will happen. I will suggest, perhaps even prognosticate that by June, at the latest, the correction will have happened and if you held your money, it will be much stronger. Until then, speculate at EXTREME risk and I wouldn’t stockpile mats, I would sell while the inflation is in place and then hold the gold.

Cassocaster.4576:

I agree, the economy in the game is precipitous at best and we are running at a huge inflation level. This really means your gold, while most of you likely have more of it, is worth HALF of what it was in July. Take a look on a TP tracking site (gw2spidy for example) and price out a few precursors from July to now and tell me what you find. Their prices have doubled in 6 months. Silk scraps going for close to 2 silver? You can argue the ascended weaponry is driving that but nonetheless, all TP items are over valued (in gold or gems) and we are headed for a crash, IMO.

This doesn’t destroy the game in any way and those who have gold should hold it as the value WILL be returning when the crash happens and it will happen.

Not that this is economics class but we get this big surge at the holidays, tons of speculation and then the gem cards given as gifts run out, the game has less money feeding the system and this causes an immediate dropping of prices because the average player cannot fund the gold they need via gems, they have to farm it. ANet doesn’t make as much money so they increase their prices to offset the loss (this has been steadily happening for months). You can see the cyclical nature of this paradigm, one begets the other until we reach a bottom.

See recent history in the finance and real estate markets for what will happen. I will suggest, perhaps even prognosticate that by June, at the latest, the correction will have happened and if you held your money, it will be much stronger. Until then, speculate at EXTREME risk and I wouldn’t stockpile mats, I would sell while the inflation is in place and then hold the gold.

Silk price increase is due to an increase in demand, not inflation. It wasn’t too long ago that silk was trading at 8c.

But yes, I expect a market correction attempt from John Smith eventually. I don’t know what kind of gold sink they will introduce, but perhaps they can introduce it with precursor crafting by requiring the use of reagants. How big of a correction is tough to guess, considering you do not want to introduce too much of a gold sink that puts casual players at a huge disadvantage.

Vol.7601:

I’m sorry, just cause you say it doesn’t mean it’s fact. I can’t prove it but it’s common sense that the main reason people don’t play games anymore is because it’s not FUN. Doesn’t matter if we’re talking just MMOs. It’s about games in general.

I have to agree. I participated in a WoW churned player focus group where they asked 150 folks why they stopped playing and what it would take to bring them back to WoW. Not a single one of those responses said anything about the in-game economy or auction house or gold. It was all content and subscription pricing.

The only thing that JS should start with is BALANCING TP risk/reward and income.

I can think of several reason why he neer did it, and all of them are not good for players and the game economy.

Manty player like me have guildies with dozen thousands gold that can t even clear arah or ac….

LordByron.8369:

The only thing that JS should start with is BALANCING TP risk/reward and income.

I can think of several reason why he neer did it, and all of them are not good for players and the game economy.

Manty player like me have guildies with dozen thousands gold that can t even clear arah or ac….

They just buy arah paths, much quicker.

LordByron.8369:

The only thing that JS should start with is BALANCING TP risk/reward and income.

I can think of several reason why he neer did it, and all of them are not good for players and the game economy.

Manty player like me have guildies with dozen thousands gold that can t even clear arah or ac….

What exactly is wrong with the TP balance?

Let’s get this out of the way.

Is the TP the best way to make gold? Yes. But it’s not for everyone, and not everyone can do it.

People who trade on the TP take advantage of market inefficiencies. However, the more people who try to play the TP game, the less profitable it is. The average player does not have the resources – time or money – to take advantage of this.

So while you have TP kings making hundreds per day, these people are far and few.

And quite frankly, there is no ‘solution’ to getting rid of TP players (heck, I don’t see it as a problem, anyway).

You start finding ways to punish or hinder TP players, it’s going to be very costly for normal players as well.

Cassocaster.4576:

I agree, the economy in the game is precipitous at best and we are running at a huge inflation level. This really means your gold, while most of you likely have more of it, is worth HALF of what it was in July. Take a look on a TP tracking site (gw2spidy for example) and price out a few precursors from July to now and tell me what you find. Their prices have doubled in 6 months. Silk scraps going for close to 2 silver? You can argue the ascended weaponry is driving that but nonetheless, all TP items are over valued (in gold or gems) and we are headed for a crash, IMO.

Yeah, I read an article not too long ago about how bad inflation is in the game… people were complaining because they literally have millions of gold but can’t even buy new equipment because the bottom is dropping out so fast that it loses value faster than they can spend it.

Wait, that was about Diablo 3. Guild Wars 2 is doing pretty good.

tolunart.2095:

Cassocaster.4576:

I agree, the economy in the game is precipitous at best and we are running at a huge inflation level. This really means your gold, while most of you likely have more of it, is worth HALF of what it was in July. Take a look on a TP tracking site (gw2spidy for example) and price out a few precursors from July to now and tell me what you find. Their prices have doubled in 6 months. Silk scraps going for close to 2 silver? You can argue the ascended weaponry is driving that but nonetheless, all TP items are over valued (in gold or gems) and we are headed for a crash, IMO.

Yeah, I read an article not too long ago about how bad inflation is in the game… people were complaining because they literally have millions of gold but can’t even buy new equipment because the bottom is dropping out so fast that it loses value faster than they can spend it.

Wait, that was about Diablo 3. Guild Wars 2 is doing pretty good.

I was going to thrash you for hyperbole but good thing I read until the end.

You’re right. D3 was a joke. I think the only gold sink in that game until I quit was gem crafting.

Vol.7601:

LordByron.8369:

The only thing that JS should start with is BALANCING TP risk/reward and income.

I can think of several reason why he neer did it, and all of them are not good for players and the game economy.

Manty player like me have guildies with dozen thousands gold that can t even clear arah or ac….

What exactly is wrong with the TP balance?

Let’s get this out of the way.

Is the TP the best way to make gold? Yes. But it’s not for everyone, and not everyone can do it.

People who trade on the TP take advantage of market inefficiencies. However, the more people who try to play the TP game, the less profitable it is. The average player does not have the resources – time or money – to take advantage of this.

So while you have TP kings making hundreds per day, these people are far and few.

And quite frankly, there is no ‘solution’ to getting rid of TP players (heck, I don’t see it as a problem, anyway).

You start finding ways to punish or hinder TP players, it’s going to be very costly for normal players as well.

The main issue arises when every single other avenue is regulated. It also has exponential potential where as other avenues are linear. So the gap between anything else and trading only grows by leaps and bounds….ie it is not balanced at all compared to anything else in the game at completing objectives, since most all objectives can be bought. To point out an obvious example most commonly used…legendaries. A trader hypothetically has the ability to make enough to buy in a a day or less. No other option in the game has this potential. Champ farming will not allow players to do so, nor will dungeon running, or anything else. It simply is not possible for any other avenue.

Now why does this matter, that an avenue has this ability and others do not. Well that comes into play when we have competition for scarce resources. We are all in the same boat when it comes to these resources. When those with elevated levels of gold create demand relevant to supply it effects everyone else. Thus trading being unbalanced effects everyone.

It’s not that it’s the best method that’s the issue. If it were even remotely close to other methods it wouldn’t be an issue. It’s that it is so far from everything else that creates the issue. Again this is due to it’s exponential nature and being unregulated, while everything else is linear and regulated.

There is much more to this ofc, this is just a tip of the iceberg type deal.

@Vol and @LordByron, I think you guys are being too extremist. As I said at the beginning the TP is good for the community as a whole, it helps keeping prices under player control, and it does it extremely well. However, there is also a group of people, like me, who do not like to farm or play the TP, and for us it is quite difficult to find the motivation when all the new content is focused on controlling the TP and farming.

Take for example this: Ascended gear has been designed to get rid of the excess of lower tier materials, and to prevent those materials from spiking in price, they have a 24 hour limit so you can only craft one per day. This is good for the community because it makes a long term goal for people, and since you cannot craft all at once it helps keeping the income of materials into the TP on par with the demand… but for me, the player, it makes me literally destroy all my hard earned t6 materials in order to get dark matter, spend all my money in leveling crafting disciplines (I think that with all my money I can only level two or three disciplines to 500), and in the end go to FS to farm champions, or going back to find gaps and walls to flip items in the TP. Also, I have 9 characters on one account and three in another.

Other currencies like Karma or Dungeon tokens are being forgotten, while Gold gets all the attention. What can I do with my 3+ million Karma points… going for another legendary? I just cannot find the strength to go through that painful experience again.

@tolunart, I played D3 for 9 days before uninstalling it. I asked for a refund but never got it. I would hate for GW2 to become something like D3… I don’t think that will ever happen.

Essence Snow.3194:

To point out an obvious example most commonly used…legendaries. A trader hypothetically has the ability to make enough to buy in a a day or less.

Hypothetically, a non-trader does too. It only takes a few lucky drops.

Essence Snow.3194:

Vol.7601:

LordByron.8369:

The only thing that JS should start with is BALANCING TP risk/reward and income.

I can think of several reason why he neer did it, and all of them are not good for players and the game economy.

Manty player like me have guildies with dozen thousands gold that can t even clear arah or ac….

What exactly is wrong with the TP balance?

Let’s get this out of the way.

Is the TP the best way to make gold? Yes. But it’s not for everyone, and not everyone can do it.

People who trade on the TP take advantage of market inefficiencies. However, the more people who try to play the TP game, the less profitable it is. The average player does not have the resources – time or money – to take advantage of this.

So while you have TP kings making hundreds per day, these people are far and few.

And quite frankly, there is no ‘solution’ to getting rid of TP players (heck, I don’t see it as a problem, anyway).

You start finding ways to punish or hinder TP players, it’s going to be very costly for normal players as well.

The main issue arises when every single other avenue is regulated. It also has exponential potential where as other avenues are linear. So the gap between anything else and trading only grows by leaps and bounds….ie it is not balanced at all compared to anything else in the game at completing objectives, since most all objectives can be bought. To point out an obvious example most commonly used…legendaries. A trader hypothetically has the ability to make enough to buy in a a day or less. No other option in the game has this potential. Champ farming will not allow players to do so, nor will dungeon running, or anything else. It simply is not possible for any other avenue.

Now why does this matter, that an avenue has this ability and others do not. Well that comes into play when we have competition for scarce resources. We are all in the same boat when it comes to these resources. When those with elevated levels of gold create demand relevant to supply it effects everyone else. Thus trading being unbalanced effects everyone.

It’s not that it’s the best method that’s the issue. If it were even remotely close to other methods it wouldn’t be an issue. It’s that it is so far from everything else that creates the issue. Again this is due to it’s exponential nature and being unregulated, while everything else is linear and regulated.

There is much more to this ofc, this is just a tip of the iceberg type deal.

You are ignoring risk. TP traders have way more risk than other methods of gaining gold.

There is zero risk of gold loss by farming, running dungeons or gathering. Of course, your earning potential is also limited.

On the other of the coin is TP trading. A bad trade, an update, or even the time of day can mean significant losses, depending on how much you invested.

You guys are using these examples and then thinking of them as something that can be applied to everyone else, but they can’t! These people earning a ton of gold are very few.
If thousands of players are conducting transactions that leave a 2 silver spread on an item that can be profited off, then whoever is smart enough to take advantage of that opportunity will take it.

Seriously, I think the only reason why you guys make a big deal about it is because you are jealous and outraged. That’s pretty much all there is to it. Jealous that you don’t have the know-how, time or opportunity to take advantage of market inefficiencies. Outraged that Anet won’t do anything to take away their gold or increase yours (they shouldn’t).

Adjusting earning potential for other methods won’t change anything but increase inflation in this game.

Only way to get rid of this would be to completely remove player trading and the BLTC.

But we all know that’s hogwash.

Pandemoniac.4739:

Essence Snow.3194:

To point out an obvious example most commonly used…legendaries. A trader hypothetically has the ability to make enough to buy in a a day or less.

Hypothetically, a non-trader does too. It only takes a few lucky drops.

Exactly. Where are all the threads raging against players who are lucky to get a Dusk drop?

Really? That’s the rebuttal? At least try to make it somewhat genuine.

Essence Snow.3194:

Really? That’s the rebuttal? At least try to make it somewhat genuine.

And that’s your rebuttal?

John Smith.4610:

Let’s calm down a bit.
I’ve already had a long post explaining why TP traders are good for the game as well as limited, if you haven’t seen it, you should look it up.

As far as other ideas like the GW2 economy has rampant inflation or there are other virtual economists online that don’t approve of this economy, that’s simply not even close to true.

post in question
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/bltc/Why-manipulate-that

“Here is my stance on this subject:
The TP is part of Tyria and is a part of the game. Spending your time learning to interact with it is a fine way to play the game if that’s what you enjoy. It has ups and downs (including no exp, karma, achievements).

The amount of money to be made on the TP is finite. There is no way it can’t be, the TP only ever sinks money, it never creates it. The TP offers convenience to trade outside of equilibrium pricing, and if a player decides to step in and take the time and effort to consume that trade and push the trade into equilibrium, that is great for the economy. It pushed prices towards equilibrium, provides a service to those who want convenience and sinks money all at the same time.

Trading takes skill, and lots of it, it cannot be argued otherwise and here is why. Because the profit is so limited, the profit has to be split between all the people effectively trading. The lower the skill cap, the more people trading effectively, the less profit individuals make until there’s no longer a real market. If one argues that there is money to be made, then you are arguing that skill is involved."

On a side note, is there any chance you are able to provide a CPI?

I love John Smith’s posts.

My summary: “hold the front door, folks! Stop freaking out, y’all good. Y’all good.”

Vol.7601:

John Smith.4610:

Let’s calm down a bit.
I’ve already had a long post explaining why TP traders are good for the game as well as limited, if you haven’t seen it, you should look it up.

As far as other ideas like the GW2 economy has rampant inflation or there are other virtual economists online that don’t approve of this economy, that’s simply not even close to true.

…On a side note, is there any chance you are able to provide a CPI?

Or some tips on those skills required? I need me some of those!

KarateKid.5648:

Vol.7601:

John Smith.4610:

Let’s calm down a bit.
I’ve already had a long post explaining why TP traders are good for the game as well as limited, if you haven’t seen it, you should look it up.

As far as other ideas like the GW2 economy has rampant inflation or there are other virtual economists online that don’t approve of this economy, that’s simply not even close to true.

…On a side note, is there any chance you are able to provide a CPI?

Or some tips on those skills required? I need me some of those!

Math for a start. Buy low, sell high.

And patience. Lots of patience.

I would say, the game relies too much on farming, but maybe thats just me…

Wanze.8410:

Math for a start. Buy low, sell high.

And patience. Lots of patience.

“Yeah, yeah, patience. How long will that take?”

Essence Snow.3194:

To point out an obvious example most commonly used…legendaries. A trader hypothetically has the ability to make enough to buy in a a day or less.

Pandemoniac.4739:

Hypothetically, a non-trader does too. It only takes a few lucky drops.

Really? That’s the rebuttal? At least try to make it somewhat genuine.

It was completely genuine. The underlying assumption of your argument is that traders are somehow advantaged over non-traders. Why would I spend time rebutting anything else if the foundation of your argument is flawed?

Both traders and non-traders gamble to make a lot of money quickly. Traders gamble that their investments will go up in price enough to pay off, non-traders gamble that whatever activity they’re doing will be worth their time and effort through drops. The main difference in success rates is that the traders (in general) put a lot more thought into their gambles than the non-traders (in general).

Dwaynas Avatar.1562:

I would say, the game relies too much on farming, but maybe thats just me…

Seconded. In my opinion it’s very hard to make money in this game unless you farm regularly or flip the TP, the latter option often requiring a significant investment of money in order to churn a decent profit.

LordByron.8369:

Obtena.7952:

So … you’re going to attribute drop in people due to a lack of trading regulation? Is this for real?

a broken economy is the main cause of many mmorpg failure….should be obvious.

If your claim is that how the economy works has such a significant influence on the success of the game, then my answer is that Anet shouldn’t touch the TP/markets, etc… because the game is successful. I mean, anyone can just make statements. Do you have any evidence to suggest that the impending failure of the game is due to whatever is wrong with the economy or is that just some empty threat in hopes to get Anet to change something?

I’m all for fixing what is ‘broken’ but … is there actually anything broken here? Can you explain what that is?

John Smith.4610:

As far as other ideas like the GW2 economy has rampant inflation or there are other virtual economists online that don’t approve of this economy, that’s simply not even close to true.

These contain some criticisms:

http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/LaurenMorton/20130708/195789/The_Soulless_MachineHow_the_Trading_Post_is_Tearing_Your_Players_Apart.php

http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/RaminShokrizade/20130426/191346/Guild_Wars_2_Economy_Review.php

The discussion is about almost all rewards being buy/sell -able.
Most important topic: a legendary
Resulting in grind/farm.
Imo money (gold) is way too dominating in this game.

@john
I would like to see you a bit more open-minded in these threads.
This subforum will never work (productive) if you continue to react this way.

PS
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/bltc/How-to-make-200-600-gold-a-day/first#post3469037

For those that think playing the TP is “easy” and “anyone can make tons of money every day”, I’d like to give my personal experience.

First, I’ll start with some background.

I played GW1 from the Feb 2005 Beta Weekend and played continuously through the GW2 release and up to this point. I don’t spend dozens of hours per week to play…I can’t afford to. I have a life outside of a video game that I enjoy a great deal. I want my time in game to be fun. I got burned out with GW1 for one simple reason: The only thing I could do to make money was farm. I hated trading in GW1. I didn’t have the patience for it.

When GW2 came out, I determined that the TP was going to be my method of “farming”. I knew that if I did it right, I could spend a little bit of my play time making money and the rest of it actually playing the game. I started by writing things down and analyzing prices. Looking into different markets. This developed into using spreadsheets to track everything. Finally….I made a database. The database I created gets item and pricing information using API’s and the internal analysis of the data I collect tells me INSTANTLY which markets I should invest in.

From my view, there are three broad markets on the TP which everything falls under: Flipping, Creation, Destruction. Flipping is the easy one. Buy an item for a lower price and resell it at a higher price. With flipping, there is a lot of competition….because it’s the easiest one to understand. Creation takes multiple items and turns them into a single item. The idea is to buy the components for a lower price than the final output will sell for. Crafting and Mystic Forging fall into this category. The third is Destruction. Destruction takes a single item and turns it into multiple items. Salvaging and the opening on containers falls into this category.

I’ve spent most of my time in the Creation and Destruction markets. With that, I was able to turn a 5g investment into 1,007g……over the course of about 18 MONTHS. It was slow going. It took a LOT of math and analysis…and I mean A LOT!!!! The math and analysis allowed me to reduce my risk on every trade. Once you have money to invest, it’s easier to make more money….just like in real life. The problem becomes finding places to invest that much money that doesn’t consume all of your time. So, as you make more money, you have to move into markets that offer greater rewards. The problem with these markets is that they also come with greater risk.

I made my initial goal of 1000g and it was time to move into one of those markets. I was able to turn that 1000g into 1400g in a little over 2 hours. AWESOME!!!! Right? Yep…it was. I made a 40% profit….exactly like my analysis had showed me I would. So….time to do it again…right? YEP!!! Of COURSE!!!! I re-invested that 1400g…..and now I have 320g. I lost……BIG TIME!!!!! The probability that I would lose that amount money was 0.3%. I had a 99.7% chance at success….but I still lost. That’s the nature of RNG. The amount of work it will take to get me back to 1000g is disheartening.

Would I do it again? YEP!!!! OF COURSE!!!!
Am I already in the process of doing it again? YEP!!

I’m just back to investing in the markets I invested in when I had 300g last time.

My luck with RNG historically in any game I’ve ever played is bad, so I know I’m going to have to work for whatever money I have. In modern MMO’s, that usually means farming, running dungeons, raiding, or trading. I want my time in game to be fun, not monotonous. While the TP may seem monotonous to some, it’s not to me. Just the THOUGHT of farming to make money makes me not want to log into GW2. Everyone is different.

morrolan.9608:

John Smith.4610:

As far as other ideas like the GW2 economy has rampant inflation or there are other virtual economists online that don’t approve of this economy, that’s simply not even close to true.

These contain some criticisms:

http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/LaurenMorton/20130708/195789/The_Soulless_MachineHow_the_Trading_Post_is_Tearing_Your_Players_Apart.php

http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/RaminShokrizade/20130426/191346/Guild_Wars_2_Economy_Review.php

The first ones mayor criticism was that alot of blue and green gear drops were available at vendor price which was adressed with essences of luck.

The second one was that the tp is unpersonal because you dont know whom your selling to. I am pretty sure, the TP wasnt created with a social goal.