Guild Wars 2

I don’t know why they don’t put more blog posts. It doesn’t have to anything formal, it could just be about anything.

They could even get players to write blog posts and then they could pick the one that’s the best.

Anything is better than those news spams about bltc that no one even reads.

Those blog posts are news announcements. Why put random crap up if it’s not news?

None of those items affects my gameplay negatively. Without those items, I can still:
Do WvW
Do Dungeons
Do FotM
Do EotM
Do World Bosses
Do Open World DEs
Do Living Story

So long as I can do stuff normally, without having to resort to gem stuff, I could care less what Anet spew out of Gem Store.

Obtena.7952:

I don’t think that’s an honest assessment. The stuff in the shop doesn’t compete with the stuff that drops through gameplay so that association doesn’t make sense.

In addition, the stuff that drops through gameplay can be converted in to gold to buy the stuff in the shop … so I would say the people that resent the shop aren’t being honest on how the shop impacts their gaming.

It very much is an honest assessment. When one sees very little being added to the game available to gameplay but a very heavy focus on adding new skins to the store (and GW1 skins only available through gamble, I mean Black Lion chests), it’s quite easy and rational to see how that could breed feelings of discontent. After all we see this complaint often and people asking for more armors and weapons to be added to the game through gameplay and not the store. I very much believe if more were added to the game that could be earned directly through playing that that would quell discontent because looks are looks and this is a game heavily focused on cosmetics. I don’t even get what you mean by ‘competing’.

Giving people more choice and balancing store and game armor would surely lead to higher player satisfaction overall which would make people more amenable to spending in the store if their finances allow. I know that when the game first started, personally I had a very favourable view of the gem store, but now not so much. That is completely down to the perception of balancing the amount of new store items vs. new game items (such as some new dungeon armor or hairstyle.) The balance has been heavily skewed toward the gem store, people have noticed and some find that a bit off putting. I get ANet needs to earn money, so I largely support the gem store. I just think if they got the balance right where the focus wasn’t entirely on it, the negative opinions of it would lessen. I guess this is a subtle and subjective thing of relationship building, give and take and trust, and not making it blatantly obvious that their primary goal is to sell to us. :P Like the subtle differences between a good salesman and a sleazy one. :P [/rambling]

Dark Catalyst.1028:

I really don’t see how people prefer to be nickel and dimed than just pay a traditional, trivial, sub free and get access to everything in game.

False Dilemma Fallacy Detected.

I don’t prefer to be “nickel and dimed”, so I’m not. In a P2P game, you must pay to access all game content. In GW2 which is B2P, you pay once and then have unlimited free access to all game content.

In order for a B2P model to work, ADDITIONAL items are offered for sale. As long as these additional items are purely cosmetic or convenience items, they are not content. Furthermore, as long as you can convert your free game time into currency that can be used to buy these additional items, they can’t even nickel and dime you for those unless you want to shortcut to the items and pay cash.

Subscriptions were from a time when internet gaming was young and the equipment was insanely expensive and thus required a commitment from the user (similar to cell phone contracts being used to offset the actual price of your “free” phone). In today’s world, the only thing a subscription guarantees is that you are getting ripped off every single month.

Swagger.1459:

jweez.7214:

Yea it annoys me too that they try to make money from their game.

I don’t think players would complain if a decent amount of money was being reinvested into substantial content, profession improvements, fixes, personal story revamps, dungeons, …, …, … and a plethora of other important core things.

Except that all those things are being. Anet revamped the dungeons for example but barely anyone does it. Players only care about one thing LOOT/Reward.

Guild wars 2 core has been significantly improved since release and is in a far better shape than it was 1.5 years ago.

The personal story will never be revamp since it doesn’t affect anybody but new players and there is no real reason to except maybe story mode orr.

The point being everything you are whining about is/has actually been done, it just seems more like it doesn’t appeal to your taste which is significantly different than things NOT changing.

mtpelion.4562:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

I really don’t see how people prefer to be nickel and dimed than just pay a traditional, trivial, sub free and get access to everything in game.

In today’s world, the only thing a subscription guarantees is that you are getting ripped off every single month.

That is not even close it is far worse than that.

You get permanently locked out of the game AND you don’t get free content. Makes you wonder what the mandatory 15 bucks a month is for.

You have the honor of spending 15 bucks + 49.99 for a new content. No wonder a lot of companies invest hundreds of millions into an MMORPG, because they know a sucker is born everyday.

That’s funny because I don’t feel ripped off. I don’t have a problem paying a sub fee for a service I value and I enjoy playing a game where I don’t see “buy now” buttons or otherwise feel like I’m being herded into the cash shop.

Yes, you can buy gems with gold. But look at the conversion rate, and how the game tends to reward you for actually playing it. I value my time and I play games to have fun, not to grind currency for cosmetic items that should be obtainable in game in the first place. It’s easier to work a little more at your job and just buy the gems instead of playing the game. Do you think that’s a good feeling for a game to give its players?

For me, annoying is seeing a monthly charge on my credit card, regardless of whether I feel that the game has provided me with that value in content over the month.

With this gem store, I can buy what I want, if I want to .. and if I don’t, I know I can still play the game and enjoy it just as much.

What is it that you feel that you are missing out on by not owning all of the items in the snippets?

Dark Catalyst.1028:

That’s funny because I don’t feel ripped off. I don’t have a problem paying a sub fee for a service I value and I enjoy playing a game where I don’t see “buy now” buttons or otherwise feel like I’m being herded into the cash shop.

Yes, you can buy gems with gold. But look at the conversion rate, and how the game tends to reward you for actually playing it. I value my time and I play games to have fun, not to grind currency for cosmetic items that should be obtainable in game in the first place. It’s easier to work a little more at your job and just buy the gems instead of playing the game. Do you think that’s a good feeling for a game to give its players?

That’s fine that you don’t feel ripped off, but if you truly valued your time, you’d see that by default GW2 gives you a better time/value ratio than any subscription game because it is going to be:

([Life of Account in hours played]/[$60])

whereas a subscription game will be:

(([Life of Account in hours played]/[$60])+(([hours played in month]/[$subscription fee])*([number of months in Life of Account])))

Allisa Wonderland.8192:

For me, annoying is seeing a monthly charge on my credit card, regardless of whether I feel that the game has provided me with that value in content over the month.

With this gem store, I can buy what I want, if I want to .. and if I don’t, I know I can still play the game and enjoy it just as much.

What is it that you feel that you are missing out on by not owning all of the items in the snippets?

Do you also feel annoyed when you see that internet or Netflix charge? Obviously impossible to get your money’s worth because you can’t use these 24/7.

In WoW, if I want a certain piece of gear I can go run the content. If I want a certain piece of gear here I have to spend real money. Why even play?

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Allisa Wonderland.8192:

For me, annoying is seeing a monthly charge on my credit card, regardless of whether I feel that the game has provided me with that value in content over the month.

With this gem store, I can buy what I want, if I want to .. and if I don’t, I know I can still play the game and enjoy it just as much.

What is it that you feel that you are missing out on by not owning all of the items in the snippets?

Do you also feel annoyed when you see that internet or Netflix charge? Obviously impossible to get your money’s worth because you can’t use these 24/7.

In WoW, if I want a certain piece of gear I can go run the content. If I want a certain piece of gear here I have to spend real money. Why even play?

The big difference is that in WoW you HAVE to get that new piece of gear because it has improved stats (the “gear treadmill” concept that keeps you paying every month) while in GW2 the only reason you would get that new piece of gear is because you like the look of it.

mtpelion.4562:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

That’s funny because I don’t feel ripped off. I don’t have a problem paying a sub fee for a service I value and I enjoy playing a game where I don’t see “buy now” buttons or otherwise feel like I’m being herded into the cash shop.

Yes, you can buy gems with gold. But look at the conversion rate, and how the game tends to reward you for actually playing it. I value my time and I play games to have fun, not to grind currency for cosmetic items that should be obtainable in game in the first place. It’s easier to work a little more at your job and just buy the gems instead of playing the game. Do you think that’s a good feeling for a game to give its players?

That’s fine that you don’t feel ripped off, but if you truly valued your time, you’d see that by default GW2 gives you a better time/value ratio than any subscription game because it is going to be:

([Life of Account in hours played]/[$60])

whereas a subscription game will be:

(([Life of Account in hours played]/[$60])+(([hours played in month]/[$subscription fee])*([number of months in Life of Account])))

And how many of those hours were spent grinding gold for gems? Sure, you don’t have to buy anything in the cash shop but who really plays without extra character slots, or bag slots, or bank slots?

mtpelion.4562:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Allisa Wonderland.8192:

For me, annoying is seeing a monthly charge on my credit card, regardless of whether I feel that the game has provided me with that value in content over the month.

With this gem store, I can buy what I want, if I want to .. and if I don’t, I know I can still play the game and enjoy it just as much.

What is it that you feel that you are missing out on by not owning all of the items in the snippets?

Do you also feel annoyed when you see that internet or Netflix charge? Obviously impossible to get your money’s worth because you can’t use these 24/7.

In WoW, if I want a certain piece of gear I can go run the content. If I want a certain piece of gear here I have to spend real money. Why even play?

The big difference is that in WoW you HAVE to get that new piece of gear because it has improved stats (the “gear treadmill” concept that keeps you paying every month) while in GW2 the only reason you would get that new piece of gear is because you like the look of it.

No I don’t necessarily. People run old content just to get a certain look all the time. And my newest character was running the newest content within a day or two of hitting 90. That’s not much of a treadmill.

Dark Catalyst.1028:

And how many of those hours were spent grinding gold for gems? Sure, you don’t have to buy anything in the cash shop but who really plays without extra character slots, or bag slots, or bank slots?

Extra character slots, bag slots and bank slots are NOT included in your monthly subscription fee, so that’s an invalid comparison.

mtpelion.4562:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

And how many of those hours were spent grinding gold for gems? Sure, you don’t have to buy anything in the cash shop but who really plays without extra character slots, or bag slots, or bank slots?

Extra character slots, bag slots and bank slots are NOT included in your monthly subscription fee, so that’s an invalid comparison.

Everyone gets 50 character slots, and the same number of bag slots. Bank slots are available for a trivial in game currency fee.

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Everyone gets 50 character slots, and the same number of bag slots. Bank slots are available for a trivial in game currency fee.

It’s been ages since I last played WoW, so I may be confusing some aspects with the last P2P MMO I played which was SWTOR, regardless:

The 50 slots are game wide, isn’t there a restriction of 10 per server? If that cannot be increased, then it’s a moot point for comparisons.

If you can’t increase bag slots, then it’s moot for comparisons as well.

For bank slots, you can grind coin in both games to do this, so they really are the same thing.

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Allisa Wonderland.8192:

For me, annoying is seeing a monthly charge on my credit card, regardless of whether I feel that the game has provided me with that value in content over the month.

With this gem store, I can buy what I want, if I want to .. and if I don’t, I know I can still play the game and enjoy it just as much.

What is it that you feel that you are missing out on by not owning all of the items in the snippets?

Do you also feel annoyed when you see that internet or Netflix charge? Obviously impossible to get your money’s worth because you can’t use these 24/7.

In WoW, if I want a certain piece of gear I can go run the content. If I want a certain piece of gear here I have to spend real money. Why even play?

Because you dont. If you want a certain piece of gear, you run the content in GW2. If you want a certain skin that’s only on the gemstore, you can run the content in GW2 to purchase them. I’ve bought a character slot, bank tab, 3 bag slots, and about 2k gems worth of other random stuff. Only time I bought gems was to buy the character slot since I was impatient about collecting gold.

It’s not running content in GW2. It’s grinding gold.

You don’t run content here for drops because it is incredibly unrewarding.

Tell me how long it takes you to farm enough gold 800 gems. About 80 gold, right?

Lothirieth.3408:

Obtena.7952:

I don’t think that’s an honest assessment. The stuff in the shop doesn’t compete with the stuff that drops through gameplay so that association doesn’t make sense.

In addition, the stuff that drops through gameplay can be converted in to gold to buy the stuff in the shop … so I would say the people that resent the shop aren’t being honest on how the shop impacts their gaming.

It very much is an honest assessment. When one sees very little being added to the game available to gameplay

Your perception needs adjustment because very few MMO’s have the frequency Anet does on updates and content. Then again, if you want a monthly fee and patches twice a year … there are lots of other MMO’s that are doing that if you think what you are seeing in GW2 is not enough for you.

Just to be clear, your claim is that the content from the TP is ‘better’ than the content you get from the game updates like living story, etc… and that’s a reason people don’t like the TP?

Maybe I’m just crazy but I would say the bi-weekly updates that we were getting ingame for living story, etc… are above and beyond the total sum of convenience and fashion items one can get in the TP.

Dark Catalyst.1028:

It’s not running content in GW2. It’s grinding gold.

You don’t run content here for drops because it is incredibly unrewarding.

Tell me how long it takes you to farm enough gold 800 gems. About 80 gold, right?

All of about 5 minutes. I dont farm, I have fun. When I need gold, I dump collections onto the TP. If I dont need gold… well… I keep on having fun. In fact, I’m just under 100g again. Gotta love knowing how to have fun. Means I’m not one of the malcontents on the forums complaining about trivial matters.

Now…. if only my friends would hurry up and finish that kitten ed fractal.

In WoW when you wanted a certain piece of gear was it for the looks or because you NEEDED the stats? There is a HUGE difference in wanting to look good (a choice) and needing the equipment to continue forward in the game (a block).

Nowhere in GW2 does it require RL money to play the game. As mentioned above, you always have the option of buying Gems with Gold to obtain any item you desire.

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Welcome to the cash shop model. If this becomes the standard in MMOs, then I will no longer be playing MMOs. Because I really don’t see how people prefer to be nickel and dimed than just pay a traditional, trivial, sub free and get access to everything in game.

You’re right, it would be so much better if people had no choice but to pay almost $200/year just to access to the game they bought for $60. Putting 100% of content behind an expensive pay wall is far superior to making it 98% free.

It’s like people think sub games mail you everything for free just for paying the sub and don’t realize you can trade gold for gems. By all means, boycott MMOs if you’re kinky for sub games that don’t ask a game company to earn their fee, it just expects people to get addicted and justifying to themselves why they need to keep paying to keep playing.

Aidan Savage.2078:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

It’s not running content in GW2. It’s grinding gold.

You don’t run content here for drops because it is incredibly unrewarding.

Tell me how long it takes you to farm enough gold 800 gems. About 80 gold, right?

All of about 5 minutes. I dont farm, I have fun. When I need gold, I dump collections onto the TP. If I dont need gold… well… I keep on having fun. In fact, I’m just under 100g again. Gotta love knowing how to have fun. Means I’m not one of the malcontents on the forums complaining about trivial matters.

Now…. if only my friends would hurry up and finish that kitten ed fractal.

Yeah, whatever you say.

Brother Grimm.5176:

In WoW when you wanted a certain piece of gear was it for the looks or because you NEEDED the stats? There is a HUGE difference in wanting to look good (a choice) and needing the equipment to continue forward in the game (a block).

Nowhere in GW2 does it require RL money to play the game. As mentioned above, you always have the option of buying Gems with Gold to obtain any item you desire.

In WoW you can transmogrify your armor to look like another piece of armor. Weapons too. And you know what? All I have to do is run the content without having to see an obnoxious “Buy Now!” button on my transmogrification interface.

And gear is part of raiding. If you don’t like raiding, then don’t play. But like I said I got my character into the easiest version of the most current content within a day or two. And that’s just fine for me because I play casually and it gives me 3-4 hours of fun a week. If I had the inclination to run the more difficult versions, I could. Some of us like gameplay that involves more than running around in a blob spamming 1.

OrianZeta.1537:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Welcome to the cash shop model. If this becomes the standard in MMOs, then I will no longer be playing MMOs. Because I really don’t see how people prefer to be nickel and dimed than just pay a traditional, trivial, sub free and get access to everything in game.

You’re right, it would be so much better if people had no choice but to pay almost $200/year just to access to the game they bought for $60. Putting 100% of content behind an expensive pay wall is far superior to making it 98% free.

It’s like people think sub games mail you everything for free just for paying the sub and don’t realize you can trade gold for gems. By all means, boycott MMOs if you’re kinky for sub games that don’t ask a game company to earn their fee, it just expects people to get addicted and justifying to themselves why they need to keep paying to keep playing.

$180 a year is worth not having to see “Buy Now!” buttons in my interface and not having 80% of game development devoted to the cash shop. Besides, that’s a fifth of what I spend at Starbucks per year, but that $200 provides way more pleasure and fun.

BTW, what is the current gold-gem conversation rate and can I reasonably get that gold through playing the game rather than playing an economic simulator known as the Trading Post?

Dark Catalyst.1028:

BTW, what is the current gold-gem conversation rate and can I reasonably get that gold through playing the game rather than playing an economic simulator known as the Trading Post?

You can, but considering the amount of ill-placed disdain for the trade post, you in particular, will not. Of course, with dungeons, you can make on average 24g by running 3 paths in all 8 dungeons. Sadly, most dungeons you cannot do those runs in 10 minutes or less without a stacked team, so accounting for degraded speed, you’ll make closer to 10g. Additionally, since you disdain the trade post so much, you’ll only be making gold out of the raw gold actually handed to you, since you’d likely be vendoring drops as opposed to spending a few minutes being smart about clearing inventory.
So, for you, 10g a day. Other players? They might make less because they’re not running dungeons for the sake of money (aka they’re having fun), or they’re making more money because they know how to take advantage of what’s fun for them to make money.

Brother Grimm.5176:

In WoW when you wanted a certain piece of gear was it for the looks or because you NEEDED the stats? There is a HUGE difference in wanting to look good (a choice) and needing the equipment to continue forward in the game (a block).

Nowhere in GW2 does it require RL money to play the game. As mentioned above, you always have the option of buying Gems with Gold to obtain any item you desire.

The real problem is when you want a look that you only get from top raids. Then you have first grind the dungeons x-times to get stuff that is good enough to go into T1 Raids. Then you have to run T1 Raids 100 times to get stuff for T2 .. and so on and so on .. until you finally are maybe good enough to get you look from the T12 raid or whatever.

And i also remember from EQ2 that there were mostly 1-2 guilds at all that were good enough to actually beat the highest raids before the next expansion with higher level cap came out.

Dark Catalyst.1028:

$180 a year is worth not having to see “Buy Now!” buttons in my interface and not having 80% of game development devoted to the cash shop. Besides, that’s a fifth of what I spend at Starbucks per year, but that $200 provides way more pleasure and fun.

BTW, what is the current gold-gem conversation rate and can I reasonably get that gold through playing the game rather than playing an economic simulator known as the Trading Post?

Ok… then why are you here? If you love everything about being duped each month and hate everything about never having to pay for anything, please, by all means, return to the game you love and leave the game you hate!

Lothirieth.3408:

It very much is an honest assessment. When one sees very little being added to the game available to gameplay but a very heavy focus on adding new skins to the store (and GW1 skins only available through gamble, I mean Black Lion chests), it’s quite easy and rational to see how that could breed feelings of discontent. After all we see this complaint often and people asking for more armors and weapons to be added to the game through gameplay and not the store. I very much believe if more were added to the game that could be earned directly through playing that that would quell discontent because looks are looks and this is a game heavily focused on cosmetics. I don’t even get what you mean by ‘competing’.

Giving people more choice and balancing store and game armor would surely lead to higher player satisfaction overall which would make people more amenable to spending in the store if their finances allow. I know that when the game first started, personally I had a very favourable view of the gem store, but now not so much. That is completely down to the perception of balancing the amount of new store items vs. new game items (such as some new dungeon armor or hairstyle.) The balance has been heavily skewed toward the gem store, people have noticed and some find that a bit off putting. I get ANet needs to earn money, so I largely support the gem store. I just think if they got the balance right where the focus wasn’t entirely on it, the negative opinions of it would lessen. I guess this is a subtle and subjective thing of relationship building, give and take and trust, and not making it blatantly obvious that their primary goal is to sell to us. :P Like the subtle differences between a good salesman and a sleazy one. :P [/rambling]

Very well said! The game is stale, discouraging and boring. No new permanent content (maps, races, classes, towns, dungeons/raids) since more than a year.

I stop playing and go back to monthly fee model where the focus is in interconnected zones without any player limit.

I am hugely disappointed and there was a good game by the company called GW1 which had no monthly fee, a really SMALL real money store and new added campaigns. Go back to this, this gem store driven non-content updates aren’t up to your spirit of yore.

“We’ve added some new skins/items to the game. We know you’d enjoy actually earning them through various in game feats of skill/intelligence/perseverance, but we’re going to save you the trouble of actually playing the game. Use your credit card to buy gems, and you can obtain the new items instantly! Isn’t that fun? Aren’t you glad we did this?”

TY ANet for making a shop instead of a game.

Disgusting.

thaooo.5320:

“We’ve added some new skins/items to the game. We know you’d enjoy actually earning them through various in game feats of skill/intelligence/perseverance, but we’re going to save you the trouble of actually playing the game. Use your credit card to buy gems, and you can obtain the new items instantly! Isn’t that fun? Aren’t you glad we did this?”

TY ANet for making a shop instead of a game.

Disgusting.

So, do you find the concept of choice disgusting, or do you find your own weak-willed-ness that leads to you buying things when you could have played for them instead disgusting?

mtpelion.4562:

thaooo.5320:

“We’ve added some new skins/items to the game. We know you’d enjoy actually earning them through various in game feats of skill/intelligence/perseverance, but we’re going to save you the trouble of actually playing the game. Use your credit card to buy gems, and you can obtain the new items instantly! Isn’t that fun? Aren’t you glad we did this?”

TY ANet for making a shop instead of a game.

Disgusting.

So, do you find the concept of choice disgusting, or do you find your own weak-willed-ness that leads to you buying things when you could have played for them instead disgusting?

I like how you deliberately stayed away from the “earn it through in game feats” part.

Try again, discuss that, and I’ll take you seriously.

I’ll respond to your own personal statement that had nothing to do with my comment though:

You may enjoy grinding the same old parts of the game that existed since release, to grind up 60g+ gold each week, then visiting the Gem Store, then rinse and repeat for months and months on end. But you’re not everyone.

Not everyone wants to play a game to do daily chores for pocket money, then visit the shops.

Repeat: This is a game. Not work/a job.

mtpelion.4562:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

$180 a year is worth not having to see “Buy Now!” buttons in my interface and not having 80% of game development devoted to the cash shop. Besides, that’s a fifth of what I spend at Starbucks per year, but that $200 provides way more pleasure and fun.

BTW, what is the current gold-gem conversation rate and can I reasonably get that gold through playing the game rather than playing an economic simulator known as the Trading Post?

Ok… then why are you here? If you love everything about being duped each month and hate everything about never having to pay for anything, please, by all means, return to the game you love and leave the game you hate!

Oh I’m not “duped” into anything because I don’t have a problem with paying for a service I value. Namely a game that is focused on in game content rather than cash shop content.

thaooo.5320:

mtpelion.4562:

thaooo.5320:

“We’ve added some new skins/items to the game. We know you’d enjoy actually earning them through various in game feats of skill/intelligence/perseverance, but we’re going to save you the trouble of actually playing the game. Use your credit card to buy gems, and you can obtain the new items instantly! Isn’t that fun? Aren’t you glad we did this?”

TY ANet for making a shop instead of a game.

Disgusting.

So, do you find the concept of choice disgusting, or do you find your own weak-willed-ness that leads to you buying things when you could have played for them instead disgusting?

I like how you deliberately stayed away from the “earn it through in game feats” part.

Try again, discuss that, and I’ll take you seriously.

---

I’ll respond to your own personal statement that had nothing to do with my comment though:

You may enjoy grinding the same old parts of the game that existed since release, to grind up 60g+ gold each week, then visiting the Gem Store, then rinse and repeat for months and months on end. But you’re not everyone.

Not everyone wants to play a game to do daily chores for pocket money, then visit the shops.

Repeat: This is a game. Not work/a job.

Well said. Apparently I’m being “duped” for preferring to pay a flat rate for a game which provides access to everything from the start.

I’m really not liking this cash shop trend or micro transactions in general.

thaooo.5320:

I like how you deliberately stayed away from the “earn it through in game feats” part.

Try again, discuss that, and I’ll take you seriously.

All coin is earned through in game feats. Coin can be used to buy ANY gem shop items.
Ergo, all gem shop items can be earned through in game feats.

I’ll respond to your own personal statement that had nothing to do with my comment though:

You may enjoy grinding the same old parts of the game that existed since release, to grind up 60g+ gold each week, then visiting the Gem Store, then rinse and repeat for months and months on end. But you’re not everyone.

Not everyone wants to play a game to do daily chores for pocket money, then visit the shops.

Repeat: This is a game. Not work/a job.

Game content pays coins. If you find activity A to be a chore, do activity B.

PEBKAC

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Oh I’m not “duped” into anything because I don’t have a problem with paying for a service I value. Namely a game that is focused on in game content rather than cash shop content.

In column 1 we have a game that provides playable content for free and charges for a specific minority of skins.

In column 2 we have a game that provides playable content for money and all skins as part of that playable content.

In order for column 2 to be worth paying for playable content, the rate of skin acquisition divided by cost per month must be less than the same rate of skin acquisition divided by cost per skin from column 1.

Essentially, the only way in which paying for column 2 is a good financial decision is if you are buying more than $10-15 worth of skins every month in column 1. If you are spending less than $10-15/month on skins in column 1, you would be “duped” if you instead played the game from column 2.

mtpelion.4562:

thaooo.5320:

I like how you deliberately stayed away from the “earn it through in game feats” part.

Try again, discuss that, and I’ll take you seriously.

All coin is earned through in game feats. Coin can be used to buy ANY gem shop items.
Ergo, all gem shop items can be earned through in game feats.

I’ll respond to your own personal statement that had nothing to do with my comment though:

You may enjoy grinding the same old parts of the game that existed since release, to grind up 60g+ gold each week, then visiting the Gem Store, then rinse and repeat for months and months on end. But you’re not everyone.

Not everyone wants to play a game to do daily chores for pocket money, then visit the shops.

Repeat: This is a game. Not work/a job.

Game content pays coins. If you find activity A to be a chore, do activity B.

Again, you may enjoy going through your list of daily chores:

Example day 1
- Dungeon #1
- World boss
- World boss
- Dungeon #2
- World boss
- FotM

Log out, repeat for days 2-7 with minor variance, visit shopping centre on day 7.

Remember, other people would like some new PERMANENT (hopefully challenging) content or different method of actually earning the items, as in playing for them, as in playing the game for them, because you know, it’s a game, and not a job. Not grinding gold through the same old repetitive chores, then visiting the shops.

Not everyone wants to play a game the same way they live their work life.

thaooo.5320:

Again, you may enjoy going through your list of daily chores:

Example day 1
- Dungeon #1
- World boss
- World boss
- Dungeon #2
- World boss
- FotM

Log out, repeat for days 2-7 with minor variance, visit shopping centre on day 7.

Remember, other people would like some new PERMANENT (hopefully challenging) content or different method of actually earning the items, as in playing for them, as in playing the game for them, because you know, it’s a game, and not a job. Not grinding gold through the same old repetitive chores, then visiting the shops.

Not everyone wants to play a game the same way they live their work life.

Wanting new content is something that is unrelated to the gem shop. New permanent content (expansions) will always be behind a paywall, regardless of the ongoing revenue structure.

B…but I like the drum and llama finisher. D;

thaooo.5320:

mtpelion.4562:

thaooo.5320:

“We’ve added some new skins/items to the game. We know you’d enjoy actually earning them through various in game feats of skill/intelligence/perseverance, but we’re going to save you the trouble of actually playing the game. Use your credit card to buy gems, and you can obtain the new items instantly! Isn’t that fun? Aren’t you glad we did this?”

TY ANet for making a shop instead of a game.

Disgusting.

So, do you find the concept of choice disgusting, or do you find your own weak-willed-ness that leads to you buying things when you could have played for them instead disgusting?

I like how you deliberately stayed away from the “earn it through in game feats” part.

But you can earn them from game feats because you can purchase gems with gold. Thank you, come again.

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Welcome to the cash shop model. If this becomes the standard in MMOs, then I will no longer be playing MMOs. Because I really don’t see how people prefer to be nickel and dimed than just pay a traditional, trivial, sub free and get access to everything in game.

Though if people must play B2P or F2P games, then Rift has a very fair cash shop.

The traditional model of sub gets you everything hasnt been the standard for a long time anymore.

Look at WoW, you buy the game and pay a sub fee. And then you get everything? No, you dont.
There is still a cashshop, that sells you special mounts and pets. And there are expansions, which you also have to buy. And services like name changes, server transfers, are incredibly expensive aswell.
That 15$ sub fee hasnt been getting you everything that was developed anymore for a long time now.

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Brother Grimm.5176:

In WoW when you wanted a certain piece of gear was it for the looks or because you NEEDED the stats? There is a HUGE difference in wanting to look good (a choice) and needing the equipment to continue forward in the game (a block).

Nowhere in GW2 does it require RL money to play the game. As mentioned above, you always have the option of buying Gems with Gold to obtain any item you desire.

In WoW you can transmogrify your armor to look like another piece of armor. Weapons too. And you know what? All I have to do is run the content without having to see an obnoxious “Buy Now!” button on my transmogrification interface.

And gear is part of raiding. If you don’t like raiding, then don’t play. But like I said I got my character into the easiest version of the most current content within a day or two. And that’s just fine for me because I play casually and it gives me 3-4 hours of fun a week. If I had the inclination to run the more difficult versions, I could. Some of us like gameplay that involves more than running around in a blob spamming 1.

So the short answer to my question is that you NEED the stats of the armor to continue playing. So it’s less about what you WANT as something you MUST HAVE to continue playing. If you don’t see the difference, I can’t help you.

You go ahead and pay $180 / year for not seeing a button that sells you something but I don’t play subscription games. These 2 games have different economic models and it is necessary for Anet to SELL things to keep the servers running. If you can’t grasp that concept or just don’t like it, you are welcome to go back to paying a monthly fee and return to your Raiding.

You can ‘TRANSMUTE’ your look in GW2 as well and the transmutation charges are earned as rewards as well as available to be bought.

mtpelion.4562:

In column 1 we have a game that provides playable content for free and charges for a specific minority of skins.

In column 2 we have a game that provides playable content for money and all skins as part of that playable content.

In order for column 2 to be worth paying for playable content, the rate of skin acquisition divided by cost per month must be less than the same rate of skin acquisition divided by cost per skin from column 1.

Essentially, the only way in which paying for column 2 is a good financial decision is if you are buying more than $10-15 worth of skins every month in column 1. If you are spending less than $10-15/month on skins in column 1, you would be “duped” if you instead played the game from column 2.

You forget that in column 1, the game is designed to push you towards buying those skins, along with everything else in the store. That’s the main focus, as that’s how the game is making money.

In column 2, we have a game designed to keep you playing enough that you pay that monthly sub time and time again. Investment in your characters is important, entertainment within the game is important. Pushing you to the game store? Actually can become counterproductive to the main way the game makes money.

It’s not just about the $ per costume. It’s about the FEEL of the game. To put it in food terms, column 1 is cheap vanilla ice cream, but you can pay more to have toppings added. Column 2 is a rich chai ice cream. More expensive, yes, but innately better than the cheap stuff (if you like chai, that is). For some people, type 1 is the choice they want. For others, type 2. It doesn’t make their opinion wrong, just different.

Brother Grimm.5176:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Brother Grimm.5176:

In WoW when you wanted a certain piece of gear was it for the looks or because you NEEDED the stats? There is a HUGE difference in wanting to look good (a choice) and needing the equipment to continue forward in the game (a block).

Nowhere in GW2 does it require RL money to play the game. As mentioned above, you always have the option of buying Gems with Gold to obtain any item you desire.

In WoW you can transmogrify your armor to look like another piece of armor. Weapons too. And you know what? All I have to do is run the content without having to see an obnoxious “Buy Now!” button on my transmogrification interface.

And gear is part of raiding. If you don’t like raiding, then don’t play. But like I said I got my character into the easiest version of the most current content within a day or two. And that’s just fine for me because I play casually and it gives me 3-4 hours of fun a week. If I had the inclination to run the more difficult versions, I could. Some of us like gameplay that involves more than running around in a blob spamming 1.

So the short answer to my question is that you NEED the stats of the armor to continue playing. So it’s less about what you WANT as something you MUST HAVE to continue playing. If you don’t see the difference, I can’t help you.

what’s the big deal with that. If you just play the game, you’ll naturally get your gear. It’s not like you need to grind anything, because you usually won’t repeat a dungeon more than 10 times and you should get your drop. And you can’t even grind raid, since it is usually on a timer for say 1 week.

I can’t say the same about GW2, I’ve done many of the dungeon path way more than 10 times, or killing shatter more than 10 times.

Obtena.7952:

thaooo.5320:

mtpelion.4562:

thaooo.5320:

“We’ve added some new skins/items to the game. We know you’d enjoy actually earning them through various in game feats of skill/intelligence/perseverance, but we’re going to save you the trouble of actually playing the game. Use your credit card to buy gems, and you can obtain the new items instantly! Isn’t that fun? Aren’t you glad we did this?”

TY ANet for making a shop instead of a game.

Disgusting.

So, do you find the concept of choice disgusting, or do you find your own weak-willed-ness that leads to you buying things when you could have played for them instead disgusting?

I like how you deliberately stayed away from the “earn it through in game feats” part.

But you can earn them from game feats because you can purchase gems with gold. Thank you, come again.

Grinding money through repetitive daily checkbox tasks to use at the shops is not the same as earning an item for completing content aka chests or drops or achievement etc.

Somehow I think you knew this but decided for option B.

Yepp .. that all sounds soooo much better :

I played WoW from beta to WOTLK, I was raid leader for most of that. GW2 solves all the problems I had in WoW and then some:

1) PvP shouldn’t be primarily gear dependent, like it was in WoW.

2) Raids felt more like a test of getting everyone on the same page and doing their jobs rather that a test of skill. Gathering the right mix of players and getting enough players sucked, too.

3) On the same subject of raids, you had to run it multiple times to gear everyone up. Honestly the raids got boring after the first 2-3 times of clearing it.

4) Dailies sucked, but on non-raid nights they were literally the only reason to log in. Since they were literally the same thing each time (unlike GW2 dailies) they became old very quickly.

5) Content updates took around 6 months to come around and were often delayed.

6) No customization of appearance if you want to be competitive.

I found myself literally logging on just to talk with my friends online, and leading raids I didn’t even really enjoy; I just wanted to get the gear for everyone and get out. It was a very unfulfilling gaming experience at the end.

That being said, I did have a lot of fun going through dungeons/raids the first 1-2 times, probably even more fun than going through dungeons in GW2. But since you would usually run a dungeon 10+ times in pursuit of reputation/drops, it just became a grind.

How I feel about playing Guild Wars 2:

PvP is about 10x better. Combat system is more in-depth, more dynamic, a lot more possibilities. I do wish for more combat modes, but I understand why they haven’t been implemented.

Customization of appearance is 1000x better (because WoW had none in Wotlk, so yeah…)

Dungeons would be worse if it had gear I needed, but they don’t, and even if I want to farm for a skin it would only take 3-6 runs to get it.

Content updates occur at a rate that I am very happy with, with the exception of this last month…that being said, it looks like they’re picking up again so yay.

Dynamic Events actually make the open world interesting…I know that’s an unpopular opinion in this subreddit, but honestly I’ve done 100% clear on two toons and I still come across DE’s that I haven’t done before now and then. And they have a REAL effect on the world. Sure, it’s not lasting, but waypoints get unlocked, merchants get unlocked, toons go to and fro, I freakin’ love it.

WoTLK was over 4 years ago. Some games actually change, and some games get gemshop content.

Dark Catalyst.1028:

WoTLK was over 4 years ago. Some games actually change, and some games get gemshop content.

Changes to WoW since WOTLK were behind two additional paywalls though, so that doesn’t really support your argument now does it?

Dark Catalyst.1028:

WoTLK was over 4 years ago. Some games actually change, and some games get gemshop content.

Oh yes .. of course :

I played WoW from beta. Vanilla beta, that is, in 2004. I was a hardcore raider in Vanilla, TBC, and Wrath. Realm-first kills, ironbound drake, the whole bit. I retired to a smaller family guild shortly after Cataclysm though because I was just burning out. I enjoyed Cataclysm.. then Panda. Panda was pure crap through and through. I found myself doing dailies to unlock more dailies just so I could get kittenty tier armor to try to get into raiding.. one night I just kind of snapped and realized how asinine it all was, and how much I actually dreaded logging in. It had become a job that I hated. I quit that night and never looked back.

I spent some time bouncing around and found my way over to GW2 and pulled it down on a demo. My first character was an Elementalist, and the fact that I could cast while moving and dodging just blew my mind. Combat that is interactive, not just hitting 2,2,3,2,2,4 while standing still? Yes please! I made a mesmer afterward and was hooked.

I still don’t miss WoW. I try out all the new stuff as it comes out just to see if I like it, and nothing compares to the combat of GW2.

Btw.: it took WoW over 2 years for their first expansion (EQ2 was at the third expansion already at that time) and it was already over 4 years old at Wotlk.

Also in EQ2 each expansion at least contained every older expansion and the initial game, while in WoW that never has happend whenever i was looking for that, so you really need to pay for every single expansion if you actually want to play the whole game.

Beldin.5498:

Btw.: it took WoW over 2 years for their first expansion (EQ2 was at the third expansion already at that time) and it was already over 4 years old at Wotlk.

Also in EQ2 each expansion at least contained every older expansion and the initial game, while in WoW that never has happend whenever i was looking for that, so you really need to pay for every single expansion if you actually want to play the whole game.

Pay for the game rather than expecting to get something for nothing? You don’t say!? What’s wrong with paying for a service you value?

I hope ANet is keeping a close eye on the threads in this forum where people are bragging about paying $0. They’ll monetize you yet!

Thicker skin, now available for 800 gems.

j/k

Anyway, when these sorts of things come up, I check them for interesting items (that I might even buy!), then go do my dailies. It doesn’t keep me coming back to the game, but something this insignificant isn’t pushing me away, either.

Anyone else still waiting for the expansion to be sold on Black Lion for 2500 gems?
…they’d have to make an expansion first, obviously.