Guild Wars 2

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

The Lost Witch.7601:

Then again, I don’t like that people are using dragon wing backpacks because they break my immersion. Yet the popularity of the wings suggests that others don’t agree with me on that. So perhaps my opinion is that of a minority.

-snip-snip-

I think Anet’s armor-designers also should take inspiration from many different fantasy-genre sources. Why not start a CDI where people could post their favourite suggestions (images) and discuss these with the designers themselves.

Yes! Make it so, oh Marcus!

I’m guessing they probably already do? It does bring to mind something that worked well for GW1 though – where they had those design-a-weapon (or piece of armor) contests. Some of the best skins in the game (draconic aegis I miss you so much ) came from that.

I would be totally willing to spend leisure hours designing some alternative weapons. If only they would be willing to allow it. I think the future lies in player-development, personally.

On the one hand, it takes a burden off the shoulders of developers and allows them to focus more on mechanics while still bringing about new content without too much work.

And on the other hand it would probably please a lot of players that they got a chance at creating a new weapon/armour piece/… for a game they like.

Sirendor.1394:

…it takes a burden off the shoulders of developers and allows them to focus more on mechanics while still bringing about new content without too much work.

I bet the ‘limited’ amount of skins isn’t due to a lack of ideas. And coming up with concept design is probably not even a burden! Modeling them for the game, dealing with clipping issues, stuff like that… that’s probably the burdensome part.

That said: I’d love to come up with some cool weapon designs for this game.

The Lost Witch.7601:

I bet the ‘limited’ amount of skins isn’t due to a lack of ideas. And coming up with concept design is probably not even a burden! Modeling them for the game, dealing with clipping issues, stuff like that… that’s probably the burdensome part.

I’d say this is all the more reason to allow players to design and submit models, as opposed to concept art, since players aren’t under the same time constraints as the devs.

TheDaiBish.9735:

The Lost Witch.7601:

I bet the ‘limited’ amount of skins isn’t due to a lack of ideas. And coming up with concept design is probably not even a burden! Modeling them for the game, dealing with clipping issues, stuff like that… that’s probably the burdensome part.

I’d say this is all the more reason to allow players to design and submit models, as opposed to concept art, since players aren’t under the same time constraints as the devs.

I can draw at a fair level above stick-figures, but 3D-modeling is right out .

A CDI with the ANet artists is something I would like to see, but I think part of it will be lost to clash over how little diversity there is in Medium armor silhouettes compared to the other two categories. I get it that it ‘exists to provide long-range identification for PvP and WvW’, but the same argument existed in SWtoR and vast majority of players DON’T CARE. The benefits just do not offset the frustration of not being able to express your identity.

Rather than strict silhouette → profession identity, if I should be that worried about being able to identify what is coming at me at a glance, give me an option check-box to append a profession icon to their name-plate. That’s even clearer messaging than “oh, they’re in a trenchcoat, must be an adventurer profession…”

There are a lot of people out there with the ability to make and texture 3D game models, but it wouldn’t save Arenanet staff from doing some work on them. You’d have to get in-house artists to check the model for art quality, mesh and texture errors, send it back if it isn’t perfect, and after that complete the setup for use in-game.

I can only imagine how complicated armour skins would be. It’d be an interesting exercise to build one but I suspect it’d take ANet’s artists more time to work with me through building a skin than it would to just make it themselves.

Part 1)

DiogoSilva.7089:

SUBCLASS AND TRAIT SYSTEMS REVISED
When I made the suggestion to fuse traits and skills in this thread, I generally meant utility/ elite skills, but having traits unlock new weapon choices is a wonderful idea too.

No, its an extreme horrible idea and the complete opposite thing of what I want to see with a Sub Class System getting changed.
I surely don’t hang with so much heartblood behind the feature of Sub Classes, just to see them changing the Trait System as result into garbage, that limitate me even more than it already does now, in regard of which weapons my Character can wield, and which not by my choices of which Traits I uses.

If ANet changes, what some of you out of a sudden want now, it would lead to this:

You want to use with your Elementalist a Sword? oh wait, I’ve forgot to equip my “I’m too stupid to use a Sword-Trait”, pls wait, I’ve to equip that dumb trait first… (pls forgive my sarcasm here, I just can’t take this idea any serious)

Its a waste of the trait system to connect it with being an Unlocking System that adds new character progression features to a class, only so that you receive the feeling of having sub classes, without having real natural feeling sub classes at all that don’t force you to permanently change something on your traits, only so that you can use somethign special of your class right at the moment when you need it.

Thats exactly why I said, that the Trait System should never be used as an Unlocking System. Its 100% designed to be just only a Customization System. For the sake of god and this game, let it stay THIS.

A good working progression of a character works with permanent unlocks, things, that a character has just to learn ONCE and then can’t forget anymore basically, or at least the player can change between builds that he has learned.
To connect Traits with Unlocking Mechanisms leads just only into unconvenient Gameplay Mechanisms, which would annoy players to death.
The best example for this to explain is just GW2’s Crafting System. If you change there from Job A to Job B and you are already very experienced in Job B, then you don’t have to change something there, nor do you need to fear, that when you change your Jobs, that you have to start from a new, cause you keep all your progress that you have already with your Job. Everythign that you learned, stays as permanent wisdom unlocked.

The same way should work new weapons, because Weapons are basic mechanics of a class, they should never ever be linked with customization systems, that would force you to waste a trait slot, only so that your character becomes able to use a new type of weapon, whereas for all the other prior weapons we didn’t have to do that crap mysteriously ??? Ask yourself perhaps once… WHY IS THAT SO?

I give you a good reason – because its a simpler game design to let weapons work in the game as a permanent basic feature and not as something, that you can use only, as long you didn’t forget to equip first the "I’m too stupid to use a Sword otherwise-Trait*

Thats the reason, why I want that anet splits up the Trait System into 3 seperate character progression systems.

1) Traits – that simply work further like now
2) Abilities – that would work as a much more detailed system for visually customizing our Character in regard of Skills, Finishers and Movement Styles (Changing a Dodge Roll Animation for example into a Somersault or Side Flip Animation)
3) Talents – that would take over the function as a seperate Unlocking System for character progression in regard of horizontal and vertical relationship.

Think of Talents like a WvW Skilsl with their 10 Tiers.
Each Class would have like for example 10 Basic Talents with like 5 Tiers of Effects.
When you maximise some of those Talents, a Player would unlock with them permanent a new feature for the Class, these new permanent Features could be literally everything:

• from the permanent skill of being able to use from now on a new weapon type (which would add for that a new own Talent) to
• Advanced Sub Class Mechanics that change something or improve something on the Basic F-Skills/Bar (Example > Mesmer Shatter Skills changing into Bard “Melodies/Tunes”) These kind of Talents would become active only, once you’ve chosen your Sub Class in the Style of games like Ragnarok Online, where Sub Classes work, like becoming advanced in your Job Career. You know, they typical picture of Noob > Master > Grandmaster, thats progression!!

Letting a trait decide over it, if your Character can wield now a sword, or not, is no progression – it’s in fact instead just nonsense, which just is only a gameplay limitation for the player, that absolutely isn’t needed at all.

Part 2) More detailed Exampel of how Talents would work:

Thiefs could start with these 10 Basic Talents:

All with max 5 Tiers (remember, like WvW Skills)

- Initiative
- Agility
- Dexterity
- Cunning
- Medium Armors
- Sword Mastery
- Dagger Mastery
- Pistol Mastery
- Harpoon Mastery
- Spear Gun Mastery

You see, a Character of the Class Thief would start already with all oth the 10 basic natural born talents, that DEFINE the Thief, among them all of the Weapons that this Class can use, the armor type, the class specific mechanism and 3 things, that are special to the Thief, that can be used for specific Sub Classes for example to keep it simple (KISS – Keep it simple stupid)
—-

Now think about a Thief, that has maxed Agility, Initiative and Dagger Mastery for example, this could unlock then a new Talent called “Rogue Tongue”
Once learning the first and only Tier of that Talent would lead to the point, that you unlock for your Thief the “Rogue Sub Class”.

Now the player would have to search for a “Master NPC”, that teaches you the Talents of a Rogue to become a Rogue. Becoming a Rogue would then add new Talents to your 10 Basic Talents. Advanced Talents which can unlock permanently for your character new things, without that you get everytiem forced to change something on your traits >.>

- Master of Thievery
- Flee Techniques
- Dodge Mastery
- Improvisatory Weapons
- Axe Mastery (means, as a Rogue, the character would be now permanently able to use at any given time Axes, without beign forcved to use a specific trait for this extra)
- Mace Mastery (see above)
- Rogue Style Medium Armors
- Rogue Style Finishers
- Rogue Style Abilities
and so on

People which played Games like Skyrim, Star Ocean or the Tales of-Series, will understand me, where I’m going to with all this… (maybe)
If the player would have chosen an other path of specialization, by taking a different Master that teaches other Talents for a different Sub Class, then that Character would receive completely different advanced talents.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Hi All,

Quick update. I will be afk for 2 days for family celebrations.

Let’s continue to here the communities top 3 lists and discuss ideas and then on the 1st Jan we can put some proposals together and dive into the specifics.

Chris

1. Ascended gear – making it items that can be upgraded by unlocking stat changes and unlocking skin changes. Also making them available for alts cheap.

2. Map progression, new areas that we get to know with little WPs that will let us get into exploration, it can be very well tied to LS as progression into dragon territories and such. Many ideas how to use them but I think we need a new map like each 2 months so people can play in there a lot and explore some more. (Please make them count to world exploration and add Southsun in there.)

3. Fraction questing (both orders and races and maybe some other fractions). This should make orders really something and should give us a way to get cultural armors when you are favored by certain race (custom made cultural items after certain effort put into reputation). Free WPs in certain areas, new great looking skins and such extras. Some custom quests only for each fraction or quest with versions based on your fractions.

I probably should have put more maps in my top 3 somewhere, but I figure they’re on the way anyhow. Would like to see the Maguuma Wastes and Crystal Desert again.

Orpheal.8263:

People which played Games like Skyrim, Star Ocean or the Tales of-Series, will understand me, where I’m going to with all this… (maybe)

No no, I have no idea where you going with this.
For all you banter about keeping it simple, you sure found a unnecessarily complicated way to explain sub-classes.

The way I see it, a sub-class could be an easily swappable specialization that you gain in later levels, say level 60. Each gaining their own access to new weapons and utilities, and perhaps a flat increase in certain attributes.

Say a defensive/support sub-class gets +150 toughness and healing power.
Where as a offensive gets +150 power and precision.

-

Perhaps a Talant system could be implemented, but it should be simple. Like you get to slot in two Talants from a pool of 10, which should have pretty broad effects like (if your a Mesmer) all stealth skills recharge 33% faster, or your heal skill recharges 50% faster. (I’m not feeling creative today)
Thou this could probably be achieved via Traits alone, however I feel that they don’t offer enough customization as it.
So something extra, decoupled from whatever your traits are, but still passive.

What I’d prefer to see would be overhauling Elite skills, not only adding more, with some having reasonable cooldowns for once. I think that they should all have both an active skill ability, and a passive trait like function. (but unlike signets, it is always active)

For example: Mass Stealth = Active gives stealth to up to 10 allies, Passive when you dodge you get 1 second of stealth.
This passive effect could be different depending on which sub-class you go for.
So one give you stealth on dodge, the other increases the duration on all stealth and reduces all cooldowns.

-

In either case, one thing I would like to see is a greater empathizes on attributes via build, and less on equipment. As well as being able to specialize very heavily in one area, even having multiple traits or talants/passives that effect the same thing, such as stealth cooldowns in this example.

I note this because at best you can get 20% off cooldowns, which is not enough if want to specialize in something very specific.

However, whatever system they go with it should be very simple and straight forward, and not adding a whole bunch of extraneous additional systems ripped from other games. Well, unless that game is GW1, then I’m ok with it.

My overall progression related stuff thoughts, concerns and comments…

I like the devs. I like this game. I’m grateful for these open CDI discussions. I like to complain in hopes to see improvements. I’m making kittenumptions at this point, but I get the feeling that any sort of vertical or horizontal progression will be implemented according to the path of least resource cost and coding resistance. You may feel it unfair of me to say that, but anet wanted us to judge their performance by what they did, not by what they talk about doing. Sadly and so far though, there has been very little development toward improving the main core aspects of the game. When I think of development over the past year, the first things that pop in my head are profession trait number shuffling-reshuffling-rereshuffling, willy nilly ascended gear implementation (and the associated crafting and grind) and temporary ls content. These are obviously not the only things in the patch notes, but the track record so far has made me skeptical that we will not see strong improvements anytime soon. With that said, I’d like to mention the following…

Financials are declining and there are lots of new games coming out this year. Do you want people sticking around, logging in consistently, creating and playing lots of different alts and spending money in the gem store? If the answers are yes, then leaving professions mostly “as is”, more trait reshuffling, skin lockers, housing, guild halls, personal story, minipets, town clothes, maps that don’t address wvw population problems, more bits and pieces of rewards and currency to grind for, more “crafting only” for progression, more achievement grind, lots of other stuff… are not going to make for a healthier new year unless you start taking care of the basic and necessary essentials first. With this and that in mind, I’d like to propose that the below suggestions be the 2014 priority plan…

1. Reinvest in your professions first. Reinvest big time. Make individual professions feel and play heroic, powerful, interesting, flexible, more balanced, enjoyable… Then work on how professions function as a team verses content. All of these things can be accomplished while still keeping professions unique and useful.

2 (tied in with 1). Professions could be made so much better by adding in a few more buttons to press or mouse click. Currently the controls are clunky and have too many things jam packed into too few buttons. Profession controls and powers can be made more “streamline” and straight forward to make it easier to pick up and play any profession. There needs to be less of tap this, swap that, hit F to loot and abilities with multiple functions, and more putting the skill of “ready” choices back in the hands of players to determine outcomes. There are a plethora of people who have been wanting something better than auto attack between long cool downs and swapping so make it happen. Seriously look at how coh handled their main click and toggle profession powers before you judge.

3. Implement core essential QoL features like improved camera zoom out, customizable ui, stuff directly loot to bag, lots of other AAA convenience stuff that I can’t think of now…

4. Again, I’m grateful for the CDI, but you need to open your test server to the public so you are not asking the majority for input after the fact and patch. You will have to find a way to hide loot/economy/crafting related stuff to make it happen, but it needs to happen.

5. Go ahead and add all the gear, levels and progression stuff you want, but eliminate the ridiculous grind, make things more alt friendly and offer multiple progression paths.

6. There are better ways to generate money from the gem store, so take your time to make worthwhile stuff that caters to all types of players.

7. Continuously keep your eyes focused on the core and make sure to budget better for first things first stuff.

Thanks for reading and Happy New Year!

@ Yoh

Sigh, sure must be the language barrier Why couldn’t god give us all the same language xD Life would be so much easier ^^ At least you got at some points very near.

Yes, Sub Classes should be easily swapable. Once having some Talents learned to become a specific Sub Class, a player could always talk with the Masters of those Sub Class Talents to change for a small fee from Sub X to Sub Y.
If you change from Sub X to Sub Y, you won’t lose any progress you have in Sub X, just like with the Craftign System. when you change there from Jeweler to Blacksmith and return later zu Jeweler, you won’t have to start from a new, you still have all of the progress you had as jeweler, when you changed to Blacksmith.
The same way do I want Sub Classes to functionize. So far, so good.
If now lvl 60, or 80 is regardless, I think 80 is better, because then you clearly know, now you have finished basically your Basic Profession by reaching its Max Level.

I think not that it would be good to add Stat Bonis to Sub Classes, then they would be too much of a vertical progression. I don’t say that Sub Classes should provide absolutely no vertical progression, but their main focus should stay in the horizontal progression by changing stuff,, like how your skills look like or how your character moves around (Abilities), unlock new skills/traits or even complete new usable Weapons through Talents and how your character can look like in regard of Armors (Style Talents).

I used those offline games only as examplse to try to explain better, what I meant with how talents could work in GW2.
In Skyrim for example you can play as a Thief, but the Thief has many different Talents and in regard of into which of them you specialize yourself with your character, you can end up in different “Sub Classes” Basically … you could end up basically more as an Infiltrator, whos very good in sneaking, stealth and assassination, or you could specialize your thief to be more like a rogue, whos superior in stealing things, making deadly traps or weakening foes. The Talents tree there enbled the player to specialize basically into these 2 Sub Classes, which had complete different gameplay and both each their own Pros and Cons which made their gameplay fell also very differently.
While as the Infiltrator, you had it alot easier to sneak in everywhere unseen, the Rogue instead was better for becoming rich and receiving valueable items very early in the game through Stealign from basically everybody without being caught and put into jail xD.

As Warrior in Skyrim you had more options, because the game offered for them more Talents. You had the optino to play the game basically as Berserker with twohanded weapons, incredible attack power but less defense, or you could be there more a kind of Knight with Sword n’ Shield or just be more of a Swashbuckler using lighter armor and dual wielding swords beign more swift that way due to having learned to fight also with other armor types, where fightign with different armor types always also had their pros and cons in this game, other than just looking differently only.

The Weapon Talents in this Game for example made the player better, so more expereince you basically collected with the weapon in use, so more you used it getting that way new “traits” basically (called perks in this game), which once learned, stayed learned and weren’t just something, that you have to exchange permanently like the traits in GW2 (the effects work there just like our 5,15,25 traits with permanent passive effects)
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Skills, look at the picture there, it shows the perk list, with all the “Talents” a character in that game could learn and progress in up to “Level 100” with the Character self having like GW2 a Max level of 80, where rasing in a Talent Level gave your Character also Experience to raise in the Character Level, if you gained enough experience with your talents. (Not that GW2 would need this extra option to gain character experience, just wanted to note this speciality of Skyrim)

You had not to learn something in the Weapon Talents, just to be able to wield that specific Weapons, like People suggest here to need Traits.

Orpheal.8263:

words

This really just sounds like things that the game already has in utility skills, weapon skills and traits. You can already invest in different traits, weapon sets and use different utility skills to make your character function in a wildly different fashion from another of the same class.

For what it’s worth; I really don’t like the idea of subclasses. If they’re something you can change out of with a fee, they are just as trivial as trait allocation, and may as well be baked into that. I very strongly doubt that ANet would ever hard lock them like Advanced Classes in SWTOR are. GW2 already has a very expandable, structured skill system. The system does not need sweeping changes; it needs more content, and more parsing for underused skills/traits.

@Orpheal

No problem with English here, your just not that good at explaining this.
Also to note the reason I said you should gain them around level 60 is to smoothen out the leveling curve, and dumping it at level 80 is a bit disjointed.

I am also of the opinion that all fees for swapping your build should be removed, as it unnecessarily inhibits experimentation for no reason. But I digress.

-
I get what your trying to say, but I just don’t see a system like this layering over top of our existing system, not how you want it.

The thing about using Skyrim as an example, as it’s perk system was all vertical progression, just without stats for the most part. Which is a cool system in and of itself, but I just don’t see it meshing with GW2’s one. You have too many potentially game breaking interactions that you have to account for. It’s like traits squared.

I think we should start simple and expand on what we have. Like improving elites, adding more skills across the board, increase specialization and customization, etc.
The only reason I am in favor of sub-classes in the first place is that it is a way for Anet to add a lot more content to a profession, while minimizing extraneous interactions that could make balance breaking builds.

Ie, The weapons from one sub-class will never directly interact with the weapons of another.

Because Areneanet are never going to go for an idea that could potentially blow out their game balance.

I’m thinking outside the box for a while so it may seem ridiculous.But how about a new exceptional normal Utility skills / elite skills column for each profession that may require leveling up. And these Leveling Skills are unlocked once plyrs reach lvl 75 or lvl 80….let me come up with a skill name to give an example
Skill example:
Mesmer illusions barrier (skill description: 3 clones circling around the plyr n grant retaliation and protection each illusion will break after 3 attack….etc) lvl1 – Max lvl 10….each time this skill lvl up the boon time on the skill will extent and able to withstand more hits start from lvl 1 each illusion barrier provides 1 sec of retaliation and protection…..etc etc

Now these will encourage some plyrs to continue lvl up their characters even after 80 and they need something to progress….The more they use the skills the level of the skills will start to progress…that way each skills will have different levels and we can always go back and level them up.

And also this way you can slowly release new leveling skills like maybe once every 2 month for each profession Cuz of the skill leveling system, u dont need to provide new skill that often. I’m not asking you to take away existing skills am just suggesting adding a few new refreshing ones.

oh by the way Pls Cart away soulbound? I do think Account bound is enough. OH I would love to Dye my weapons too! ~ Haha..My 2 cent.

@mcnick: leveling a skill to make it more powerful?

I almost feel left out of the party. My ideas seem to hit right where the discussion is going, but I don’t see anyone picking up on it.

I agree with the notion that more permanent sub-classes might not be the best fit, and since we already have our skill and trait system, we should expand on that more. What I envision, is using sub-classes as a way to introduce more specific traits and skills into professions, allowing them to either: A) fully adopt every “sub-class A” effect to become “sub-class A”, pick and choose portions of their class that they like, and expand on that, or C) combine random bits and pieces to make whatever feel they want.

Examples: A) I want to be a Deception mesmer. Maybe Deception mesmers are all about stealth and clones, so I take all the Deception traits and add/replace weapon and utility skills with Deception versions, further expanding upon the current possibilities of stealth and clones in game.

B) I like Guardian Symbols. I decide to pick and choose traits and skills from all of my sub classes that affect Symbols, and I can now cast symbols from Scepter (doesn’t currently have a symbol), a utility skill, and they’re longer lasting, are fire field instead of light, and inflict cripple. I’m no longer a Guardian with symbols, but a Symbol Guardian

C) I want to run my ranger in WvW, and I want to be a frontliner, so I’ll need a lot of survivability, some Crowd Control, etc. I’ll look through my unlocked traits and skills and pull together what I’ll need to survive and help my squad/guild. I’m not so focused on a class mechanic, as much as a general feel.

This way, you’re just changing some parts of your current skills or traits to fit more in line with what you want to do. Maybe you really like the feel of the scepter skills, but would kill to have a stun on it. Now you can. Or maybe, Auras are really hard to use often and put on allies; now you can do it better. Think that Engineer using Hip Shot is just like any other rifle engineer? Nope, Chuck Testa his rifle shots actually have a chance to convert boons to conditions, synergizing with Modified Ammunition.

As for obtaining these sub-class “things”, I feel going out into the world and finding trainers, completing small mini-dungeons, a small instanced quest thingy, or something would allow access to start working toward the skill, which could be gained by either XP (leveling like character creation, but at a different pace), or using skill points.

(even if you respond just to tell me to shut up, I’d appreciate knowing someone was affected enough to respond)

I’m reading, Ghotistyx, I just think subclasses are a terrible idea for this game. (In no small part because it’s a huge development effort and complete rebalancing of the game, something I think will never. happen.)

What happened to the adding of new skills in 2013? There was this master list for 2013 from mmorpg that had it listed as being done in 2013? http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/473/feature/7597/ArenaNets-Master-Plan-for-2013.html

Well, all those people who downvoted me on Reddit can eat it: brand new skills and traits are coming to GW2 before the year’s end and they’ll all be profession specific. Keeping with ArenaNet’s goal to avoid gear inflation, this system is intended to act as a sort of horizontal progression for your character.

Maybe you’ve unlocked every skill and know every trait, and have your legendary… what’s left? Well these new skills will keep you progressing without constantly inflating your power and making it impossible for others to catch up. Along with the new system, new ways and activities to earn skill points will be added and there won’t be some insane grind to obtain them. It’ll be much like the current system of unlocking skills. What’s more is that the team is also working very kitten finding a way to make it so that every profession has access to every weapon and their own weapon skills for those previously locked weapons. Engineer plus Hammer? Check.

Nike.2631:

TheDaiBish.9735:

The Lost Witch.7601:

I bet the ‘limited’ amount of skins isn’t due to a lack of ideas. And coming up with concept design is probably not even a burden! Modeling them for the game, dealing with clipping issues, stuff like that… that’s probably the burdensome part.

I’d say this is all the more reason to allow players to design and submit models, as opposed to concept art, since players aren’t under the same time constraints as the devs.

I can draw at a fair level above stick-figures, but 3D-modeling is right out .

A CDI with the ANet artists is something I would like to see, but I think part of it will be lost to clash over how little diversity there is in Medium armor silhouettes compared to the other two categories. I get it that it ‘exists to provide long-range identification for PvP and WvW’, but the same argument existed in SWtoR and vast majority of players DON’T CARE. The benefits just do not offset the frustration of not being able to express your identity.

Rather than strict silhouette -> profession identity, if I should be that worried about being able to identify what is coming at me at a glance, give me an option check-box to append a profession icon to their name-plate. That’s even clearer messaging than “oh, they’re in a trenchcoat, must be an adventurer profession…”

Those players concerned with armor as identification in pvp and wvw can always turn their Character Model Quality to “Lowest” for easy identification, perhaps increasing their frame rate at the same time.

Just chiming in on a couple of ideas mentioned earlier.

1. Extra Emotes: One of the things that I really loved about the French MMORPG Dofus was their system for getting emotes. It mostly involved teaming up with other folks to solve puzzles. You’d have to get like 5 people to all stand in a certain configuration on a board of many rock slabs. Or you’d have to have one person pull a lever so the others could get in. Some you could do alone but you’d have to answer a series of riddles and then be in a certain place at midnight server time…. so much fun. The group ones always got all sorts of random folk together and fast friendships would form.

2. Test server with real players for usability/UX testing before rolling out a release – if Anet doesn’t do this already, I highly recommend this! Always reveals so many unexpected and interesting issues and gives you time to ponder and tweak. Fresh eyeballs = good. Gathering a large pool of players to do that and then splitting it up (one chunk of folks test in one cycle, a different chunk the next, etc, etc.) I’m pretty new here so apologies if that already exists.

petespri.6548:

What happened to the adding of new skills in 2013?

you must have missed a new heal skill for everyone and a specific new heal skin for each of the professions, which change most gameplay significantly. I mean… I love the Mesmer-heal signet which is basically a HoT when I have clones up AND it recharges my phantasm skills. It’s awesome.

Ghotistyx.6942:

I almost feel left out of the party. My ideas seem to hit right where the discussion is going, but I don’t see anyone picking up on it.

~snip~

(even if you respond just to tell me to shut up, I’d appreciate knowing someone was affected enough to respond)

Welcome to the club. I’d put forward more ideas myself if I knew I was being listened to instead of just dropping in words on a page.

I want to emphasis that the biggest impact on horizontal progression will be to: 1. Add new skills, especially weapon skills; 2. Create a separate trait tech tree of some sort. All the other things posted on this forum look fun and good, but I would consider it only a bonus. I like to feel like my character skill/trait choices are more dynamic as I progress.

Some ideas:
1. For adding weapon skills I propose this idea: When you place 30 traits in a single trait line, you unlock new weapon skills specifically and complimentary to that trait line. I think having it linked with trait/role choices will: 1) change how we fight based on what specialization we choose giving more value to roles select. 2) bring out more uniqueness within the classes (A warrior with 2hand sword will not all fight the same way with merely with different stats). 3) Allow for more weapon variety usage instead of cookie cuter builds (ie. condition warriors always have 1h sword and bow, its always the same and boring).

2. For traits, the same idea may apply; placing 30 points in a single trait line unlocks a separate trait tech-tree, allowing characters to have a mastery in a specific role. Naturally only one tech-tree can be used so if someone goes 30/3010/0/0 they can only pick one new mastery trait tech. The reason I think it should be separated is so that: 1) it can only be unlocked at lvl 80. 2) it will not add any stats such as extra prec. or power. 3) it will be flexible for expansion without disrupting the main trait line.

Ben K.7329:

There are a lot of people out there with the ability to make and texture 3D game models, but it wouldn’t save Arenanet staff from doing some work on them. You’d have to get in-house artists to check the model for art quality, mesh and texture errors, send it back if it isn’t perfect, and after that complete the setup for use in-game.

I can only imagine how complicated armour skins would be. It’d be an interesting exercise to build one but I suspect it’d take ANet’s artists more time to work with me through building a skin than it would to just make it themselves.

The complexity is not in the skins or meshes themselves, it’s in linking the different elements together. Matching texture to mesh isn’t that hard in the scheme of things- there’s even software that does the gross work for you so you just fine tune it. Animation and clipping is probably the trickiest part. None of this is problematic, since modding communities for certain games are massive and highly talented (see any Bethesda game).

The problem is that to allow the public to do this, Anet would have to release their game assets. You can’t model armor without a body mesh; you can’t animate anything without both a skeleton and the animations. All these different parts that have to be pieced together would have to be made available for public use. Most companies aren’t willing to do that, even under a not-for-profit, company keeps rights type of agreement.

Also it wouldn’t help as much as you might think. The biggest bottleneck tends to be procedural- getting approval, moving between departments, testing, repeat. To get assets built faster you can always hire more artists. Not so much with red tape.

Cool idea, but it just won’t happen.

Housing I think player housing would be an exciting addition, however the only other instance I’ve seen it implemented (SWG) resulted in low population city hubs, and scenic areas taken over by housing (sometimes very poorly placed). Thus, utilizing the player’s home district would be ideal – and perhaps incorporate a similar feature (instanced area) elsewhere for guild halls? Then add the ability for players to customize their home within the instance, and perhaps put additional emphasis on having the player’s home instance impacted with their feats and their personal story progress.

Customization There are many great ideas in this thread; I think I’m most fond of expanded player customization, including dyeable weapons, dyes with special particle effects, skin lockers, and especially expanding the selection of armor skins/sets available in game, ideally through crafting and in-game achievements/accomplishments. Especially seeing as currently it is more valuable to sell materials than it is to craft and sell goods, effectively undermining player crafting as anything other than a means to craft your own ascended items, or to gain some quick levels.

DPS Meters While I loved dps meters in other games – as they allowed players to gauge how effective they were, and to get a better sense of whether their build was working for their intended purposes or not – I think with the nature of PuG groups in this game, it would either help the classes that are often frowned upon to improve or prove themselves, or it could serve to further alienate them from experiencing content outside of a pre-established guild/player network.

Builds The biggest issue, for me, at this point is the lack of viable build variety. Perhaps that’s due to the player base wishing to complete content quickly via zerker stacking, as opposed to diversifying approaches to dungeon fights. Of course, this is due in part to the farming necessity – as the dungeon gear oddly has no chance to drop in the dungeon, in addition to the fact that players have been running those instances for over a year now. As far as fractals go, I’m a scrub and haven’t explored them extensively yet, so I can’t attest to the loot/rewards (motivation) beyond collecting tokens (and of course, general challenge).

As a side note, I love the LS cycles, and I feel on the forums that may be a minority opinion, but it is a large part of the reason I came back to GW2, as I wouldn’t have without it. Perhaps that’s my post-“hardcore” raiding perspective, but I really do think it keeps things fresh, and I’m not upset at having missed the last year’s worth of events, as I know more will come, especially as the LS development improves over time. It gives a sense of urgency with new patches, unlike permanent content which fades from popularity rather quickly and is rarely used once something new replaces it. I think a nice addition would be to increase the variety of reward options (not gem store options) for the events, as they seem very limited currently. Additionally, they could be further improved upon by tying the LS in with the personal story, and allowing the player to get a sense of heroism that is in many cases absent (as opposed to that of a bystander). Moreover, having something like the Personal Story pane in the Hero Panel for the LS events would be a fun way to reflect on past achievements/participation.

There are a lot of good suggestions in this topic; however, I think some people miss the point of the word ‘progression’. In endgame, it basically comes down to one simple question in every game:

• Who has more? (or, more vulgar, ‘Who has the longest?’)

All this talking about housing, build-variety etc. is nice, but it won’t help if players don’t get something which makes them “more shiny” compared to others. In GW1, this ‘who has more’ were basically the titles; in other games, it’s the best gear, the coolest mount, and so on.

GW2 already has some ‘Who has the longest’-Approaches, but they are all not really satisfying. There are tons of different currencies, and there are also the APs. But why aren’t they motivating a lot of players for endgame? APs are good for only one kind of players: The hardcore ones. First, if you want to compete, you must play the games since release, because if you start now, you have missed so many dailies that there is absolutly no chance to get on the ladderboards, even if you’re playing 24/7. Second, you can’t miss any dailies, because it just throws you out of competition, and there are – amongst all those million gw2 players – about a thousand or something like that that can play like that (and also do that or at least something like that, when looking at the AP-ladderboards).
Besides APs, there are titles, but most people I know agree that most titles are just garbage (too easy to achieve or timegated). So what remains in GW2? Right, basically nothing. You can make all the achievements, but you can’t let that know other players (except your AP-number, but for that, see above), you can collect all skins, but besides having no inventory space left, there’s nothing you can really do with all those skins, you can have 100% with all your characters, but 90% of the people in Lion’s Arch have the star anyway, you can get a legendary, but you can also just buy it for a hundred bucks or something like that via Gemstore (besides the fact that there are already a hundred players with legendaries posing arround in Lions Arch).

Please keep that in mind. ‘Progression’ is always connected to this very simple question… who has more? It’s all about this. In every game.

Dominus.2360:

All this talking about housing, build-variety etc. is nice, but it won’t help if players don’t get something which makes them “more shiny” compared to others. In GW1, this ‘who has more’ were basically the titles; in other games, it’s the best gear, the coolest mount, and so on.

Well this “something” could also be bigger houses, rare trophies you only get for killing strong enemies,… Housing is horizontal progression. As well as build variety (who has more skills? Who has this very special alternative skill?,…). Everything that makes you progressing in anything connected to your character(s) as long as it doesn’t make them more powerful – this is horizontal progression as far as I would understand it.

islarose.7356:

Housing I think player housing would be an exciting addition, however the only other instance I’ve seen it implemented (SWG) resulted in low population city hubs, and scenic areas taken over by housing (sometimes very poorly placed). Thus, utilizing the player’s home district would be ideal – and perhaps incorporate a similar feature (instanced area) elsewhere for guild halls? Then add the ability for players to customize their home within the instance, and perhaps put additional emphasis on having the player’s home instance impacted with their feats and their personal story progress.

DPS Meters While I loved dps meters in other games – as they allowed players to gauge how effective they were, and to get a better sense of whether their build was working for their intended purposes or not – I think with the nature of PuG groups in this game, it would either help the classes that are often frowned upon to improve or prove themselves, or it could serve to further alienate them from experiencing content outside of a pre-established guild/player network.

For the housing I’d like it not to be the home instance, the sylvari one is some underground communal home and the Charr one is not actually a building but a drill yard with side rooms.
Guildwars has two locations perfect for instanced housing, The mists (you could create anything) and the hundreds of islands that are being uncovered as the water recedes. This can be applied to Guildhalls too, Gw1 had the largest guildhalls I’ve seen in a fantasy mmo.

Not a fan of the DPS meter, it can only lead to trouble maybe a private one that only you can see?

As for the sub-classes everyone’s getting sidetracked with, Lets not add any drastic changes until the classes are actually balanced first.
At the moment Heavy armor classes have no disadvantage and this needs to be addressed. Elementalist damage could do with being improved too for what theoretically should be the highest damage class it doesn’t even break the top half.

Also still not seeing how that is progression? what did I earn who did I beat? I just have another option now, that is just customization not progression.

Edit: Wishlist =/= horizontal progression. Caught error after post.

1. Player housing
From MMO news sites like Massively, I understand this will be a big part of
Wildstar and Everquest Next. Do. Want. And whoever originated the idea of
tinkering as a profession, brilliant idea.

2. Heroes, followers
Even if they are instanced (dungeons), this is a good idea. Guildies not on? PUGs
won’t take you because you’re an engineer? Grab a follower and carry on!
Suddenly my lower level crafting has a use beyond alts and/or outfitting heroes is a
gold sink.

3. New skills
At end game, new mechanics keep things fresh.

so any news in housing? do we know if the devs start thinking about it?

Immensus.9732:

so any news in housing? do we know if the devs start thinking about it?

It was a planned feature already but was put on hold if I remember correctly.
I’d guess that based on the large demand for it they’ll likely resume work on it.

We’ll have to see what Chris thinks of the development cost to implement it.

Dominus.2360:

Please keep that in mind. ‘Progression’ is always connected to this very simple question… who has more? It’s all about this. In every game.

Progression isn’t always based on a direct comparison to others. It can also be based on a comparison to your previous self.

This kind of progress wouldn’t need to show in achievement points, in titles, in stars behind our name or in our position on a leaderboard. Since we’re not competing with anyone else, but with ourself, it doesn’t need to be visible to others.

My characters unlock new dyes every now and then. Or discover recipes that no longer make their crafting rank up. And while both of those do not really help me to compare myself to others, they are improvements of my previous self, and therefor progression.

I don’t play the game as a competition. Yet I do recognize and appreciate character progression.

Conski Deshan.2057:

Also still not seeing how that is progression? what did I earn who did I beat? I just have another option now, that is just customization not progression.

Customization can be a form of progression. If, in order to customize, you need to unlock those options. Then gaining those options is a form of progression. That would be what you earn.

Another way in which it can be progression is through the customization process. If your character is up until this point a clerics symbol guardian, and the new options (like a new healing skill) get you interested in a berserkers meditation guardian, you buy new gear to match your build.

This new guardian now has the option to be both types, clearly an improvement over the previously limited guardian. Progression.

It would be interesting to see more flexibility on weapons.
For example, one weapon could have more than 5 abilities. However you can use only 5 of them and you must decide which ones. And then I’d make some weapon abilities as mandatory (must be on the action bar), some of them optional, some of them locked until they are unlocked by a trait or gems.
Then, make sets of abilities bound to the weapon and character so that player can switch between them fast. Prevent switching in combat.

Maybe someone already shared these ideas… I really didn’t read every post regarding this topic.

Zoltar.2873:

It would be interesting to see more flexibility on weapons.
For example, one weapon could have more than 5 abilities. However you can use only 5 of them and you must decide which ones. And then I’d make some weapon abilities as mandatory (must be on the action bar), some of them optional, some of them locked until they are unlocked by a trait or gems.
Then, make sets of abilities bound to the weapon and character so that player can switch between them fast. Prevent switching in combat.

Maybe someone already shared these ideas… I really didn’t read every post regarding this topic.

Locking skills behind gems would definitely be considered pay to win.

Zoltar.2873:

It would be interesting to see more flexibility on weapons.
For example, one weapon could have more than 5 abilities. However you can use only 5 of them and you must decide which ones. And then I’d make some weapon abilities as mandatory (must be on the action bar), some of them optional, some of them locked until they are unlocked by a trait or gems.
Then, make sets of abilities bound to the weapon and character so that player can switch between them fast. Prevent switching in combat.

Maybe someone already shared these ideas… I really didn’t read every post regarding this topic.

The idea of more skills for weapons has been talked about before. However, no one(to my knowledge) has thought of locking skills behind gems. Even if the gem amount is low, its still something that would be greeted with poorly from the community and be seen as pay to win and/or like ArenaNet was just “coming up with ways to get more money out of us”.

Which with that last part, we all know isn’t true otherwise gems would be solely obtained via cash.

Weapon Skills

I was thinking that maybe a good start could be to add one extra option to each weapon slot, except the number 1 that, at least at the start, dont really need to be changed, since it is the basic attack. Also, the animations of those options could be the same as the weapon attacks we have, that would save a lot of work.

Ofc, later they could add, little by little, more weapon skills, even with new animations.

Some of the new attacks could change the effects and some could add a charging bar to give more power and/or range to the attacks (like the Sniper Shot of the Snowball Mayhem). That could be good over all for ranged weapons.

Skill Evolution

The same idea of the charging bar could be added to some of the utility skills. I imagine a skill like Stomp (Warrior) charging to hit the ground in a bigger area and affecting more targets.

The skills could increase max the bar can charge by using them or could be with some masters in each technique over the world that teach how to use them.

Contextual Actions

Seen the Skritt in the Lion’s Arch event for Wintersday, i was thinking that could be interesting to add contextual action over enemies: in the case of the Skritt we kick them when we press the F key. Those actions could be teached by different masters over the world.

Ofc, this is probably too hard to implement.

Environmental weapons

I was thinking that this kind of weapons could have more use.

1. Create a new slot to equip this kind of weapons. This weapons would be used in the same way but with the slot a quick key could be asociated to it to use them faster.

2. Some enemies could drop this kind of weapons: for example, a pirate could drop a sword, or an enemy with a shield could drop it to be used.

3. The crafting disciplines could have recipes to create environmental weapons. This recipes could be teached by the npcs that sell some of those weapons.

4. Engineer could create some of their weapons and kits as environmental weapons to be used for other players (like the elementalist have). They could also get new skills like create a sniper rifle (like there are in some of the renown hearts in Ascalon).

Craft

I was thinking in the idea of be able to craft siege weapons specific for each profession. And even combat suits like the siege golems, but usables in pve too: this ones would have a slow movement speed too, to prevent everyone use them all the time.

Hi,
I am quite disappointed with this CDI thus far. (the horizontal progression piece)

I understand that it is the holiday season and people, including arenanet, have personal lives, vacations, etc. However, it dawned on me that this CDI is scheduled to end on January 6th, 4 days away. Where has the collaborative discussion been? We have had little to no interaction with arenanet since the Horizontal Progression discussion began. If all that was wanted from us was a top 3 list, why bother with a thread? Comb the suggestions forum/history for our ideas. Suggestions like Wardrobe are certainly to be there.

The verticle progression thread was much more spirited and we saw a great interaction between players and developers. But this thread has been almost entirely player driven, merely posting our top 3 ideas. If you wanted just a list of our top ideas, you could have sent us a survey. If this discussion was going to be so impersonal where we just list out our ideas, then why bother with a forum thread? If there is no interaction with arenanet on these topics, then why bother creating an ‘official’ discussion…you could simply review the threads we have posted during the previous entire year to obtain our ideas. The lack of feedback from Arenanet’s side has caused me to stop reviewing the thread, where previously in the Living Story and Verticle Progression threads I was quite active in because every now and then, a dev would respond to some of our feedback.

I would hope that with the holidays behind us, and only four days left for this thread, that we see much more back and forth between players and developers.

cesmode.4257:

Hi,
I am quite disappointed with this CDI thus far. (the horizontal progression piece)

I understand that it is the holiday season and people, including arenanet, have personal lives, vacations, etc. However, it dawned on me that this CDI is scheduled to end on January 6th, 4 days away. Where has the collaborative discussion been? We have had little to no interaction with arenanet since the Horizontal Progression discussion began. If all that was wanted from us was a top 3 list, why bother with a thread? Comb the suggestions forum/history for our ideas. Suggestions like Wardrobe are certainly to be there.

The verticle progression thread was much more spirited and we saw a great interaction between players and developers. But this thread has been almost entirely player driven, merely posting our top 3 ideas. If you wanted just a list of our top ideas, you could have sent us a survey. If this discussion was going to be so impersonal where we just list out our ideas, then why bother with a forum thread? If there is no interaction with arenanet on these topics, then why bother creating an ‘official’ discussion…you could simply review the threads we have posted during the previous entire year to obtain our ideas. The lack of feedback from Arenanet’s side has caused me to stop reviewing the thread, where previously in the Living Story and Verticle Progression threads I was quite active in because every now and then, a dev would respond to some of our feedback.

I would hope that with the holidays behind us, and only four days left for this thread, that we see much more back and forth between players and developers.

I believe Chris mentioned that it may very well go on for some time past the 6th.

The Lost Witch.7601:

cesmode.4257:

Hi,
I am quite disappointed with this CDI thus far. (the horizontal progression piece)

I understand that it is the holiday season and people, including arenanet, have personal lives, vacations, etc. However, it dawned on me that this CDI is scheduled to end on January 6th, 4 days away. Where has the collaborative discussion been? We have had little to no interaction with arenanet since the Horizontal Progression discussion began. If all that was wanted from us was a top 3 list, why bother with a thread? Comb the suggestions forum/history for our ideas. Suggestions like Wardrobe are certainly to be there.

The verticle progression thread was much more spirited and we saw a great interaction between players and developers. But this thread has been almost entirely player driven, merely posting our top 3 ideas. If you wanted just a list of our top ideas, you could have sent us a survey. If this discussion was going to be so impersonal where we just list out our ideas, then why bother with a forum thread? If there is no interaction with arenanet on these topics, then why bother creating an ‘official’ discussion…you could simply review the threads we have posted during the previous entire year to obtain our ideas. The lack of feedback from Arenanet’s side has caused me to stop reviewing the thread, where previously in the Living Story and Verticle Progression threads I was quite active in because every now and then, a dev would respond to some of our feedback.

I would hope that with the holidays behind us, and only four days left for this thread, that we see much more back and forth between players and developers.

I believe Chris mentioned that it may very well go on for some time past the 6th.

Ah, missed that one. Ok, well thats half the battle. That alone does not change the fact that there has been little to no true give and take in this thread, like there was for Verticle Progression or Living Story. We need more true discussion, otherwise this is just an area where we spit out our ideas and walk away because there isn’t any feedback or criticisms to our suggestions. And if this becomes the case, why bother with the thread at all? There are countless great suggestions in the Suggestions forums.

there are holidays… respect that, please! Chris already mentioned (in his leisure time) that he will be back soon and discussing with us what’s important.

Seriously, O_o

Something I forgot to mention when I was suggesting zone progression as a way to progress your character:

I’m of the opinion that backscaling works too harsh. I once mentioned this (as a direct answer to a dev who worked on this, he asked me where I two/threeshot my enemies and I answered) but never got a response on that. I don’t feel like I have earned my gold medal in dynamic events from low level zones when playing as a lv.80 because enemies are non-threatening most of the time. I could go afk in enemy territory and my passive self-heals keep me alive (no joke).

If zone progression happens, backscaling should see a considerable rework imho. I want combat to be fun, and while leveling it is, but when going back it lost a lot in the current state imho.

Does anyone agree with me on this?

This is an older clip (GW2 AFK Slayer Achievement ), but I don’t feel that anything has changed since then:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpwBkuoyuzQ

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

there are holidays… respect that, please! Chris already mentioned (in his leisure time) that he will be back soon and discussing with us what’s important.

Seriously, O_o

I have acknowledged the holidays already. Im not one of those people crying because the devs can’t be bothered to post every single day like some people have done. Im pointing out the simple fact that in this horizontal progression thread, we have been asked to post our top 3 ideas and thats it. Thats the extent of the interaction, in 11 days since the thread was created(which was a few days prior to Christmas I might add). And I can’t remember the last time, if any, if a dev other than Chris Whiteside posted in this horizontal progression thread.

Im comparing this thread to verticle progression and living story threads where we had much more participation.

Please do not mistake this to be some mis guided sense of entitlement. Im pointing out the facts that the thread has been created for 11 days with little to no interaction from anyone besides Chris Whiteside, and if all that was wanted from us was a list of our ideas, they should simply refer to the Suggestions thread and be done with this if they aren’t going to give us feedback…

cesmode.4257:

Im comparing this thread to verticle progression and living story threads where we had much more participation.

…before the holidays

no comment.

Happy New Year Chris and everyone on the thread.

Sorry I am late to this party, but I have been away for the last couple of weeks. I thought I would put in my top three after reading through the thread.

1. Expanded Skills, Weapons, and Traits: Not to beat a dead horse, but one of the things I loved most about GW1 was the ability to customize your skill bar completely and with many, many combinations. I really feel limited with the amount of skills available.

2. More Individual Content/Personal Story Line: I want more to do in PvE and want to feel like my character is still out there doing something. After finishing my personal story line, it feels like my characters are retired and just are out exploring and having fun with no real purpose.

3. More Permanent (Old) Zones: One of the great joys of any game is my ability to explore and experience new places within the game. What I would really like as an old GW1 player is to get to go to some of the places we used to go. Maguuma, Crystal Desert, much of the EOTN places, Ring of Fire, etc. I miss those places from GW1 and would love to see some of them open up for my new characters to explore.

Dominus.2360:

Who has the longest?

Not all people play GW2 to show that they are better/richer/stronger than the others.
There are players who enjoy the game for his fun, not for virtual pride.

You can’t satisfy pride craving in a MMORPG except by digusting more players than you will satisfy. It a pyramid : a huge base of disgusted players and a small top of prideful people.

Arena.net would do better to improve personal fulfillment instead. It’s more profitable and benefit to all players. Make people enjoy what they achieve is the best way.

I would add Unique rewards = rewards that can be obtained ONLY by one character (account)
I would design gear boxes which contains either a full set of armor or a full set of weapons. They will be hidden behind RNG drops from all foes no amtter what level the character is
They will be only lvl 80 gears even if they drop to a lvl 2 character

I know this idea will be pretty expensive for A-net because they will need to design thousands of them, but the player who gets them will stand out in the could because no one will ever get his type of looking gears

The gears will have “unique” attribute to it
One account can get only three types of unique armors: heavy medium and light
and they can only drop to respective profession characters

A-Net can launch design contests for all these weapons and armors and those added to the game will receive an attribute “made by XYZ” as a reward for the designer.