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Posted by: THuGaNoMiX.5036

THuGaNoMiX.5036

I have all the mats collected for making my Ascended Armor Heavy Set and I can only craft one Spool of Silk Weaving Thread per day, which means I can only make one Bolt of Damask per day?

Please explain why the **** they would put a time gate on crafting? I’m forced to wait 25 days to make my full set. I can’t understand this at all.

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Posted by: zaced.7948

zaced.7948

because if not timegated the prices for those mats on the tp would have been way lower thus shrinking the overall “value” of the armor. another point is that you have to log in every day. another and probably the most important point is that by locking those mats behind a timegate there is way more incentive to buy those mats from the tp, generating a need for gold (which correlates with the price of those mats: higher price → more playtime/gems needed) which by itself again gives the incentive to buy gems and trade them for gold.
why timegate? because profit.

(edited by zaced.7948)

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Posted by: Dhalis.8297

Dhalis.8297

Just be glad that you’re going for heavy and not light armor. Light practically only uses damask (the 5 leather isn’t worth mentioning).

If you never heard that silence, it’s a godawfull sound…

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Posted by: Cormac.3871

Cormac.3871

because if not timegated the prices for those mats on the tp would have been way lower thus shrinking the overall “value” of the armor. another point is that you have to log in every day. another and probably the most important point is that by locking those mats behind a timegate there is way more incentive to buy those mats from the tp, generating a need for gold (which correlates with the price of those mats: higher price -> more playtime/gems needed) which by itself again gives the incentive to buy gems and trade them for gold.
why timegate? because profit.

Absolutely, 100%, unequivocally wrong.

Had crafting not been time gated the price shock on silk would have been enormous as people had bought up all the stock needed for their set of armour in one hit. Damask hit 10 gold early on, which is around the price it ended up stabilising at, the only difference being that early on crafters who weren’t interested in making their armour early on we’re able to make a good profit as silk took a month or so to reach its new base level.

You could possibly argue that the number of materials required are an attempt at getting people to convert gems to gold, but the main impact of time gating has been to make crafting profitable for those not in a hurry.

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Posted by: cranked.3812

cranked.3812

No, Cormac, the main reason is to get you to log in every day.

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Posted by: zaced.7948

zaced.7948

yes, t5 prices would have spiked but those of the ascended mats wouldn’t have. now just check spidy and compare the bids/buys (div/mult by numbers needed, ofc; you can check the numbers bought/sold in this time on spidy) in the average pricerange (prices at the time of the update+reasonable max prices in tp /2) on those asc mats and t5. you will come to the conclusion that the gold drain with asc mats is higher.

another point is that you can farm t5 mats, acs mats you can not.

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Posted by: Cormac.3871

Cormac.3871

No, Cormac, the main reason is to get you to log in every day.

I agree that the idea of getting people to log in every day is a factor, but I wasn’t replying to OP, just to the person who claimed it was a nefarious scheme to get people use their credit cards.

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Posted by: Cormac.3871

Cormac.3871

yes, t5 prices would have spiked but those of the ascended mats wouldn’t have. now just check spidy and compare the bids/buys (div/mult by numbers needed, ofc; you can check the numbers bought/sold in this time on spidy) in the average pricerange (prices at the time of the update+reasonable max prices in tp /2) on those asc mats and t5. you will come to the conclusion that the gold drain with asc mats is higher.

another point is that you can farm t5 mats, acs mats you can not.

I am pretty sure you don’t know what’s price spike is or a gold sink (unless a gold drain works differently to a gold sink).

The price of a bolt of damask hit 20 gold, then dropped down to ten before steadily climbing to about 15 today. I don’t know that you can say a price spikes for something when it is just introduced, but paying double for something just to have it on the first day isn’t so bad, and is hardly relevant now.

You can pay a premium and buy now, or you can log in regularly and get it eventually. When that premium is over 15% then crafting is profitable, although it is impossible for just a small number of players to quickly exploit that market, so the profit stays around for more people. As a regular player who likes long term goals this is great. It encourages more regular logging in rather than just getting out your credit card in my view.

You also said ascended mats can’t be farmed. I’m not sure what exactly you mean here. Obviously you can’t farm manufactured goods, but are you talking about silk scraps (a t5 material incidentally) or do you think we should be able to farm bolts of damask. I’m confused by what you mean and why it might be a relevant point.

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Posted by: THuGaNoMiX.5036

THuGaNoMiX.5036

Still don’t get it. I would like to hear from a Moderator or Admin on the explanation of why they would do something so stupid.

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Posted by: Cormac.3871

Cormac.3871

Still don’t get it. I would like to hear from a Moderator or Admin on the explanation of why they would do something so stupid.

They probably won’t comment. Encouraging people to log in every day and giving crafters an avenue for making money still seem like fair enough reasons though.

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Posted by: Cometknight.9473

Cometknight.9473

im still kitten about the 7oo silk i need to craft a full set, i can wait a month for a full set

5 lvl80 Warriors……..and counting

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Posted by: Astralporing.1957

Astralporing.1957

Still don’t get it. I would like to hear from a Moderator or Admin on the explanation of why they would do something so stupid.

Seriously, even if i don’t really like those kind of mechanics, in this case the daily cap is not a problem. Price and availability of silk, and t2-t4 cloth on the other hand…

Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November

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Posted by: JCROY.5730

JCROY.5730

I have all the mats collected for making my Ascended Armor Heavy Set and I can only craft one Spool of Silk Weaving Thread per day, which means I can only make one Bolt of Damask per day?

Please explain why the **** they would put a time gate on crafting? I’m forced to wait 25 days to make my full set. I can’t understand this at all.

Simple solution:
Do dungeons, collect gold, buy BoD of TP, done
(or spend gems…but that would cost real money)

“see cow, grab bundle, feed cow?”

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Posted by: Mystic.5934

Mystic.5934

time-gating these made sense for the first 4 months or so when they came out, to slow down how many T2-T5 mats were consumed when everyone was making ascended weapons and armor for the first time. Those materials more than doubled in price, if no time-gate, they would of gone up to dozens of silver. Right now, it’s only an annoyance. But they don’t fix annoyances, they only fix problems. I can’t see it being a problem for the economy/game, so we’re stuck with it until the time-gate interferes with some future LS content.

Crafting Damask for profit is unreliable. It used to be reliably around 20%, but that’s not the case anymore. If you buy-order the materials and sell-list the damask, the profit fluctuates from -5% to +15%. You should definitely save it until the +15% times (like right this moment), but that’s still unreliable. All the others are even less reliably profitable. Elonian is currently at -5% profit, Spiritwood and Deldrimor are currently at +13% and +11% (but often dip below 0)

You want to hear something funny? Glow Lamp is time-gated to one a day :P Have you seen the ingredients? one of them is 10 Charged Quartz. So not only can you only make one once every 10 days, but you also can’t make more than one in one day. That’s like time-gating the damask and time-gating the ascended insignia.

im still kitten about the 7oo silk i need to craft a full set, i can wait a month for a full set

Hehe, reminds me of when damask first came out. Before that, Bolts of Silk were selling for 9c (the REFINED version was selling for the same price as the un-refined version = merchant value). At the time, a use for the mountains of silk was very welcome. Only they overestimated it and now cloth is hella expensive.

To OP: I recommend buying all the damask you need from the TP buy-order now, make your ascended, then craft damask over the next month and sell-list it to the TP. You should come out a little below even (compared to crafting them all yourself), but you’ll have your ascended armor in the mean time.

(edited by Mystic.5934)

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Posted by: Ayrilana.1396

Ayrilana.1396

Still don’t get it. I would like to hear from a Moderator or Admin on the explanation of why they would do something so stupid.

Stated already in the preview video for ascended crafting.

Also

I may be repeating a question, but couldn’t find it anywhere. Was there an economic reason for ascended gear being bound (Soul/account) and not tradeable on the TP? And if so, what were those reasons? Maybe a way to minimize a “pay to win” scenario? Or to avoid having a bunch of new items that would reach the cost of legendaries and be seen as unobtainable by the player base?

It was clearly a game design and not an economic decision.

I’d like to know if the latest trend of time gated material that can still be bought off the trading post (mawdrey components, ascended armour components) is a deliberate attempt to allow people to make money crafting by preventing a small number of users flooding the niche as soon as it becomes apparent.

PS thanks John for taking the time to respond to all the questions here, and thanks Wanze for creating the topic. This is my favourite forum thread that hasn’t been deleted.

Having crafters able to make money was certainly part of the design intention.

(edited by Ayrilana.1396)

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Posted by: EnemyCrusher.7324

EnemyCrusher.7324

You can buy Bolts of Damask from the trading post to bypass the time gate, but it’ll probably cost a bit more.

Light of Honor [Lite] – Founder / Warmaster
Sorrow’s Furnace Commander
“You’re the mount, karka’s ride you instead, and thus they die happy!”-Colin Johanson

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Posted by: DoomKnightMax.6592

DoomKnightMax.6592

Here’s a little secret. I have to craft 36 bolts of damask for a full set of ascended armor. Now I’m doing this for a second time passively so it isn’t as important, but when I was going for my first set I wanted to make it in a week. I worked my way around the time gate by giving the materials to fellow guildies that I trusted and they would craft damask bolts for me and send it back. I made 5 damask bolts a day which wasn’t bad at all. Its just about finding trustworthy friends.

(edited by DoomKnightMax.6592)

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Posted by: Rauderi.8706

Rauderi.8706

Here’s a little secret. I have to craft 36 bolts of damask for a full set of ascended armor. Now I’m doing this for a second time passively so it isn’t as important, but when I was going for my first set I wanted to make it in a week. I worked my way around the time gate by giving the materials to fellow guildies that I trusted and they would craft damask bolts for me and send it back. I made 5 damask bolts a day which wasn’t bad at all. Its just about finding trustworthy friends.

Or you could have multiple cloth/leather/armor crafters at 450+

Many alts; handle it!
“I’m finding companies should sell access to forums,
it seems many like them better than the games they comment on.” -Horrorscope.7632

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Posted by: mtpelion.4562

mtpelion.4562

Or you could have multiple cloth/leather/armor crafters at 450+

It’s an account gate, so you’d need multiple accounts with cloth/leather/armor crafters at 450+.

Server: Devona’s Rest

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Posted by: Rauderi.8706

Rauderi.8706

Or you could have multiple cloth/leather/armor crafters at 450+

It’s an account gate, so you’d need multiple accounts with cloth/leather/armor crafters at 450+.

…Seriously? I hadn’t gotten my tailor to 450 yet, so I wasn’t sure. And I’m not exactly getting 600+ silk scraps a day, so it’s not exactly the daily limit stopping me.

The limit rankles me, but only slightly. I’d have preferred to see them make use of Mystic Coins as a limiter. It would raise their value and give them something useful to do.

Many alts; handle it!
“I’m finding companies should sell access to forums,
it seems many like them better than the games they comment on.” -Horrorscope.7632

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Posted by: mtpelion.4562

mtpelion.4562

My recommendation is to buy the Damask you need now, then proceed to craft one per day and sell it to recoup your expenses over time.

Server: Devona’s Rest

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Posted by: Illconceived Was Na.9781

Illconceived Was Na.9781

My recommendation is to buy the Damask you need now, then proceed to craft one per day and sell it to recoup your expenses over time.

Great advice.

You don’t have to wait to craft your gear; you only have to wait if you want to do all the refinement first.

John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”

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Posted by: Lord Kuru.3685

Lord Kuru.3685

It’s so that you’ll log in every day so that it becomes a habit. I also give you the illusion that there’s more content than there actually is.

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Posted by: Pixelpumpkin.4608

Pixelpumpkin.4608

Buy the damask on the TP and make your armor.

Continue to craft damask once a day and sell it on the TP. In a month, you’ll have your money back.

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Posted by: Curse Drew.8679

Curse Drew.8679

Still don’t get it. I would like to hear from a Moderator or Admin on the explanation of why they would do something so stupid.

I think there is an unspoken rule of Anet: if a player asks for a Gm to reply, it ensures they will not reply.

The best way to encourage a response from Anet is to tell a funny joke, or a nice compliment. Also discussing feedback and suggestions without being insulting & rude is good too.

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Posted by: Ayrilana.1396

Ayrilana.1396

Still don’t get it. I would like to hear from a Moderator or Admin on the explanation of why they would do something so stupid.

I think there is an unspoken rule of Anet: if a player asks for a Gm to reply, it ensures they will not reply.

The best way to encourage a response from Anet is to tell a funny joke, or a nice compliment. Also discussing feedback and suggestions without being insulting & rude is good too.

Except they gave their reasoning before the release of ascended crafting and recently through a post in another thread.

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Posted by: Mystic.5934

Mystic.5934

Still don’t get it. I would like to hear from a Moderator or Admin on the explanation of why they would do something so stupid.

I think there is an unspoken rule of Anet: if a player asks for a Gm to reply, it ensures they will not reply.

The best way to encourage a response from Anet is to tell a funny joke, or a nice compliment. Also discussing feedback and suggestions without being insulting & rude is good too.

Except they gave their reasoning before the release of ascended crafting and recently through a post in another thread.

where? the only thing I’ve ever heard was that we only had player assumptions about how you need to slowly introduce economy-unbalancing things (which doesn’t explain why they are still time-gated)

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Posted by: Curse Drew.8679

Curse Drew.8679

I believe Anet gave an explanation when they announced ascended crafting.

From the wiki: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Crafting_material

“The purpose of the time gate and availability on the Trading Post is to create a demand in the economy.”

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Posted by: Ayrilana.1396

Ayrilana.1396

Still don’t get it. I would like to hear from a Moderator or Admin on the explanation of why they would do something so stupid.

I think there is an unspoken rule of Anet: if a player asks for a Gm to reply, it ensures they will not reply.

The best way to encourage a response from Anet is to tell a funny joke, or a nice compliment. Also discussing feedback and suggestions without being insulting & rude is good too.

Except they gave their reasoning before the release of ascended crafting and recently through a post in another thread.

where? the only thing I’ve ever heard was that we only had player assumptions about how you need to slowly introduce economy-unbalancing things (which doesn’t explain why they are still time-gated)

Anet post I quoted in this thread and that preview video for ascended crafting. I believe it was Lindsey who gave the presentation and explained one of their reasons for the time gate.

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Posted by: Mystic.5934

Mystic.5934

alright, so that explains why it was there when introduced… does not explain why it’s still there 1.5 years later.

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Posted by: Ayrilana.1396

Ayrilana.1396

alright, so that explains why it was there when introduced… does not explain why it’s still there 1.5 years later.

So them trying to create an avenue for crafters to make a little gold becomes less relevant as time passes? Or the desire to have some items that had no value to now have value diminishes over time? The reasons for the time gating appear to have been made for the long term suggesting that their reasoning doesn’t finish over time as it would have had this been meant to only be temporary.

(edited by Ayrilana.1396)

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Posted by: Mystic.5934

Mystic.5934

prices have equilibrated. there is no “crafters make a little gold” with ascended mats anymore. now, it’s “crafters make ascended materials and wait to sell it until the price goes up so they can barely recoup their costs”.
As of this posting, Deldrimor is currently at +15s, Spiritwood is at +33s, Damask is at +92s, Elonian Leather is at -20s. They bounce between -5% and +10%. That is not something you want to be making, especially every day. If it is, I can give you a list of 400 or so crafted things that give more profit than that and you can make as many as you want.
What’s the point of time-gating a craft that has been around for 1.5 years that doesn’t give a profit when sold? Supply has already equaled demand. Opening the gate would not create more supply.

(edited by Mystic.5934)

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Posted by: Ayrilana.1396

Ayrilana.1396

prices have equilibrated. there is no “crafters make a little gold” with ascended mats anymore. now, it’s “crafters make ascended materials and wait to sell it until the price goes up so they can barely recoup their costs”.
As of this posting, Deldrimor is currently at +15s, Spiritwood is at +33s, Elonian Leather is at -20s. They bounce between -30s and +50s. That is not something you want to be making, especially every day. If it is, I can give you a list of 400 or so crafted things that give more profit than that and you can make as many as you want.
What’s the point of time-gating a craft that has been around for 1.5 years that doesn’t give a profit when sold? Supply has already equaled demand. Opening the gate would not create more supply.

You left out one.

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Posted by: Malganis.7468

Malganis.7468

Still don’t get it. I would like to hear from a Moderator or Admin on the explanation of why they would do something so stupid.

Seriously, even if i don’t really like those kind of mechanics, in this case the daily cap is not a problem. Price and availability of silk, and t2-t4 cloth on the other hand…

I think its a problem with T2-T5 material is worth more than T6 material. I’m quickly approaching my 500 piece limit of T6 gossamer and leather due to lack of use, while I never have enough silk, linen, or wool.

Legion of Honour [XIII]: http://operationunion.enjin.com/home
Tarnished Coast

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Posted by: Mystic.5934

Mystic.5934

You left out one.

whoops :P my bad (edited the post)

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Posted by: Ayrilana.1396

Ayrilana.1396

You left out one.

whoops :P my bad (edited the post)

Damask bolt was the one I was referring but there are others. I didn’t see the edit at the time I hit reply so you may have added it since then.

Another thing these recipes did was create value for the components. The time-gating affects the volatility of the prices over the day. They are often cheapest about an hour before reset and then jump up right after reset with fluctuations thought the rest of the day. The items you craft have the opposite affect as their value tends to at the lowest right after reset.

While each recipe is daily, the items you craft normally sell fairly quickly. There are other items that are not time gated and sell for profit; however, these tend to sell slowly and can be very fragile if too many items get put up to be sold too quickly. These provide an easy way for crafters to make an almost guaranteed profit. They just have to be careful when they put in their buy orders for ingredients and when they to the sell orders for the final result.

Are crafters going to get rich quick? No. But these did provide a way for crafters to make a little gold off most of the recipes and also allow people (such as those leveling) to sell the components and make a little more gold than before.

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Posted by: Mystic.5934

Mystic.5934

yeah, my internet connection here is kittening kitteny kitten filled with kitten. I posted the reply, typed out the edit, and wasn’t able to post the edit for like 5 minutes. you know your internet sucks when downforeveryoneorjustme.com is in your top-visted sites.

what others besides damask?
plate of piquant plant food and plate of meaty plant food are the only other things on my just-logged-on routine. But those are new items that haven’t reached equilibrium yet, so they are still profitable. Those are funny. They go up and down like 1g every day – down 1g at reset, then slowly back up until another daily reset. new things that are popular should be time-gated. but once they are no longer new, the time gate should be removed.

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Posted by: Ayrilana.1396

Ayrilana.1396

Exactly what are you considering to be at equilibrium?

Here’s a list of them:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Crafting#Time_gated_recipes