Guild Wars 2

Greetings,

Recently with the new patch I noticed how incredible hard it is to make money these days! With playing 4 to even 12 hours a day it has come to my attention you can’t make alot of money. Mainly the nerfing of some good events like Plinx, shelter and a few other events made a big drop of moneygain for me and other players.

At this point I ask myself, will I keep playing this game, because this is totally NOT a rewarding system. I find it also annoying many mobs simply doesn’t drop any stuff if you kill them and the anti-grind system! How the hell can you even consider making a legendary at this point. I know it should be hard, but before the patch I could grind around 120-150g in one week, wich is saddly done now.

Not only hardcore gamers are left in the cold but mainly the big group of casual people, who will never achieve this. This reminds me at Diablo 3, 100 hours of grinding and NO REWARD! What’s the point of playing, and grinding hours a day if you don’t have any satisfaction and no reward?

Also the dragon events like the shatterer and Jormag cost me more to use the waypoint then I gain loot from them, minions and chest! Why would I even consider doing them again in the future?

If this evolution keeps going or Arenanet doesn’t do anything about it, I fear they will lose a big group of players, including me. I rather go back to another game and spend alot of time there, and SEE actually I gain rewards for my time, not like GW2 or like in Diablo 3. Many friends of me dropped already out, mainly due this problems I’m saying ( and I totally agree with them).

Atm the frustration is seizing power over fun in this game.
Please do something about it, many people love this game, but grinding an hour with 178 MF without any rares and only circa. 1 gold gain, I find not rewarding. Make this game fun again like it ussed to be!

to summarize; the inserted gametime isn’t rewarding enough!
If you would ask me, what is an MMO, I would answer: it’s a game where you progress, the progress and the reward, loot make this gametype addictive. This is what we miss at GW2 atm

If you grinded 120-150g in a week how on earth are you not close to a legendary?

Anet wanted a legendary to take on the order of months, not weeks, its a long term goal, and if you focus on burning yourself out trying to get it then yeah, your gonna be disappointed.

They do not want gold to be meaningless like in WoW, they don’t want every cool item to be 1000 gold.

If you get all the items in a month, then what do you have to play for and work towards. The game certainly isn’t rewarding to play when you have all the items you want instantly

You typically make about 2-3 gold an hour from just farming events. I think that is fairly acceptable.

The only problem I have with the current economy and ability to make money is the excessive demand for T6 crafting materials.

Why, why on earth does everything have to require 250 T6 Mats? Is that the only number ANet can think of?

I mean it would be almost acceptable if they had a decent drop-rate, but they don’t.

ANets needs to either stop making everything cost 250 T6 Mats, make them drop more frequently or give us alternative, reliable ways to farm them.

I agree with this thread, there isn’t much of a reward for grinding anymore which unfortunately has become essential for their Ascended items as well as legendaries.

They need to adjust the drop rates because as of this moment there isn’t a whole lot of ways to gain gold in a time efficient manner or undo the nerf to event chains such as Plinx.

i suggest you to change game. You grinders have already done enough damages with those absurd requests. More grind ?!?! WTF!
I earn more much money than before the patch. Running 1 istance a day is more rewarding than before. Kill a champion that can drop is more rewarding than before.

People asking for more grinding O.o
Imo the less grinding we are forced to do the better..i really can’t see how grinding 10h/day the same couple of events can be fun. I can’t even see how showing off your twilight can be fun if all you did for it was running between shelter camp and plink 10h/ day for 1 month.

I’m really looking for the scavenger hunt for precursors. I really hope that it will be some sort of “one time events” (meaning that you’ll have to do only 1 time each one, not that they do not repeat). Grinding again and again the same mob, the same area, the same event is NOT fun. Until legendary will mean this, i won’t even think about it^^

Daendur.2357:

i suggest you to change game. You grinders have already done enough damages with those absurd requests. More grind ?!?! WTF!
I earn more much money than before the patch. Running 1 istance a day is more rewarding than before. Kill a champion that can drop is more rewarding than before.

If its more rewarding then why do I get more rares out of farming lvl 80 trash mobs?
Why do I get more t6 mats out of farming trash mobs?

That champion takes a decent chunk of time to kill and the rewards for doing so don’t make me go “hey look there’s a champion lets zerg up and go kill it!” instead it gives me the exact opposite inclination., I want to avoid it so I can grind the smaller, easier to kill and more rewarding trash mobs.

The rewards for the work do not scale properly or in layman’s terms: Anet is paying fast food employees $125/hr while Lawyers are paid $75/hr.

BabelFish.7234:

Daendur.2357:

i suggest you to change game. You grinders have already done enough damages with those absurd requests. More grind ?!?! WTF!
I earn more much money than before the patch. Running 1 istance a day is more rewarding than before. Kill a champion that can drop is more rewarding than before.

If its more rewarding then why do I get more rares out of farming lvl 80 trash mobs?
Why do I get more t6 mats out of farming trash mobs?

That champion takes a decent chunk of time to kill and the rewards for doing so don’t make me go “hey look there’s a champion lets zerg up and go kill it!” instead it gives me the exact opposite inclination., I want to avoid it so I can grind the smaller, easier to kill and more rewarding trash mobs.

The rewards for the work do not scale properly or in layman’s terms: Anet is paying fast food employees $125/hr while Lawyers are paid $75/hr.

because you are farming, not playing. I hope they’ll put a DR on common mobs to stop ppl like you.

I agree with OP. The problem is that, in order to get a legendary, you’re forced to farm money, karma and materials. Events such as plinx, shelter and penitent make that possible. People that choose to farm in this way, afaik, do not bother those that do not want to farm like this. You should be able to choose between grinding on dynamic events such as plinx or running dungeons. Right now, Anet seems to force us into focussing on dungeons. The events generally aren’t rewarding enough to run (if you include things like waypoint costs, repair costs if there’s too few people there to do the event and such things). Also, I’m finding it a bit more difficult to get to know people in area’s since you run all over the map and spend very little time playing with the same people. I met a good deal of people in game that I’d call friends of mine (such as the OP).

As people have said in various other places, you need to have incentive to do something. It needs to be profitable to do events. If its not profitable or if its difficult to do a few in a row, then people will not do them. For instance, plinx had a very good timer which enabled good planning with other events. You could run a few others in between plinx runs. Currently, if plinx is done, you have a lot of downtime in between. I don’t play the game to stand around. I’m sure someone will suggest “go elsewhere and do events there”, I can respond with “why?”. I prefer repeating a select number of events over running all over the place. It’s diverse enough to not get boring that fast (the chain was around half an hour, that doesn’t get That repeatatitve).

I wonder, could someone explain to me what the problem was with plinx farming? Wouldn’t it have been better to buff dungeons, as they have done, to provide incentive to do dungeons as well as DE farming? Now it seems they want to push us into the dungeons and out of the normal area’s.

And what is wrong with farming? You have a problem with people liking efficiency with earning gold?

Edit: I also agree that champions still do not give me loot that is profitable and I also avoid them. Despite the buff they apparently got, I haven’t noticed much of it on the champions I did participate with in killing.

Daendur.2357:

because you are farming, not playing. I hope they’ll put a DR on common mobs to stop ppl like you.

Agree 100%, they must put an end on this farm.

There are a lot of interesting perspectives here. I am not a farmer. I’m a relatively casual player, and I mostly enjoy exploring and getting into big events from time to time. However, I would like to be able to get the better gear, since at higher levels, and certainly for dungeons and epic meta events, it’s pretty much necessary to keep from dying every thirty seconds.

But, I don’t farm, and I certainly don’t do the same stupid event over and over for hours upon hours.

But, what I am finding is that unless one does that kind of mat and event farming, they will NEVER have the means to obtain any of the decent gear.

And what I see is that in an attempt to prevent farmers from farming, Arena Net is making it IMPOSSIBLE for those of us who don’t farm to ever enjoy having a decent set of armor or weapons.

Look, Anet…I LOVE this game…but farmers are going to farm, and there is nothing you can do about it that is not going to make the game absolutely intolerable for those of us who don’t farm. I have a hard enough time making money in real life, I don’t want to have to struggle to survive and make ends meet in my fantasy life, as well.

If that is going to be the case, I’ll stop playing and get a book from the library where I can enjoy a rich fantasy, that doesn’t stress me out about not having enough gold to buy that armor I want, or enough materials to make that weapon I want.

I think I am like most people in that I don’t want to have to play 4 hours a day, every day, for the next 5 years in order to get one piece of Exotic gear. I don’t want to spend the rest of my life trying to obtain a full set of exotic gear. And I have given up all hope of ever having a legendary weapon, since even when I do play for extended hours, (and I tried this out for 3 weeks straight…playing roughly 8-12 hours a day, every day), the most I was ever able to accumulate was 12 gold…this was extremely disappointing).

To be honest, who the hell cares if someone is out spending hours of their day running the same events over and over again?
Their reward for doing so is having a pile of gold and a ton of awesome gear. Good for them. The price they pay is that they don’t enjoy experiencing the rest of the world of the game. So be it. It’s no longer a game for them, it’s work. I don’t want my game time to be work time…it ceases to be fun at that point.

The solution is NOT to nerf the one or two events that are actually profitable. A better solution is to make ALL the events MODERATELY profitable, (and less costly to both get there and repair afterward), and interesting, so that people will be enticed to engage in many events, rather than just the one or two.

I understand the financial aspects of game mechanics. We are supposed to be enticed to play so we keep playing and spending money on the game. You know what entices me? Getting what I want. When I don’t have to spend 3000 hours to get 10 gold pieces, and can actually have the gear that I want and enjoy it in the game, that makes me happy, that makes me want to continue playing, that makes me want to spend money on the game to get other stuff.
Other stuff like, different and new armor and weapon skins. I like to change my look from time to time, as most people do. Things that I would actually spend my real money on, as well as game gold, (and I’ve actually spent real money on these things): armor skins, weapon skins, mini pets. I would gladly spend money on new, cool, additional dye colors, rather than spend 12 hours running Plinx over and over just so that I could have enough gold to buy the kitten thing from someone else.

The solution to keep people playing is not to make the game a miserable grind, it is to provide new, improved content, new skins, new gear, new IDEAS…give us something that we WANT to grind for, don’t force us to do it just to survive.
What is happening is that in order to try to prevent something you have no hope of ever actually preventing, (farming), you are making the game completely miserable for the rest of us. Please stop doing that.

It’s an awesome game, and an awesome game world. A few minor tweaks would make it absolutely outstanding. Fix the champions so they ALL have chests and loot. Make the loot WORTHY of a champion, and the hero’s who defeat it. Fix the meta events so that they are ALL moderately profitable, so that “farming” can become “playing”. If I knew that every event was about the same and was worth my time and money and effort, I would travel around and experience different events. Most people would. I would also like to be able to experience an event that is where I happen to be, and have it be just as profitable as traveling across the map, so that I don’t have to travel across the map to have fun and make some gold.

if you made it this far, please accept my apology for the length of this post.

ps: I agree with Rishi

Lucas, I disagree with you entirely, it is difficult enough, as it is, to get materials. No one will EVER stop farmers. It’s why they play the game. It’s why they pay for the game and spend money on the game. They do it, so that they can farm materials and gold, and horde them and make more gold.

establishing drop rates, reducing drop rates, limiting drop rates…it does NOTHING to stop farming. It only makes it that much more difficult on all the rest of us who don’t farm.

Daendur.2357:

because you are farming, not playing. I hope they’ll put a DR on common mobs to stop ppl like you.

Farming IS playing. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with people wanting to farm. With the direction that Anet is currently heading everything they implement into the game requires an enormous grind and it’s usually partnered with some type of nerf to a popular farm. This results in prices rising on the trading post and the only people who can really do anything with the new stuff is people who either buy gold in the gem shop or who got an early jump off exploits and pinning the market. The OP is right and if Anet doesn’t knock it off they’re going to lose a huge chunk of their playerbase.

Didn’t Anet want to decrease the prices of legendaries because of the great amount of farming it required? Well yeah now precursors prices have come down. With the ascended items introduced combined to bot banning the prices of all t6 mats have skyrocketed within the last few weeks making the initial cost even greater than before which requires even MORE money farming which as you pointed out is not as easy as it was before.

Daendur.2357:

BabelFish.7234:

Daendur.2357:

i suggest you to change game. You grinders have already done enough damages with those absurd requests. More grind ?!?! WTF!
I earn more much money than before the patch. Running 1 istance a day is more rewarding than before. Kill a champion that can drop is more rewarding than before.

If its more rewarding then why do I get more rares out of farming lvl 80 trash mobs?
Why do I get more t6 mats out of farming trash mobs?

That champion takes a decent chunk of time to kill and the rewards for doing so don’t make me go “hey look there’s a champion lets zerg up and go kill it!” instead it gives me the exact opposite inclination., I want to avoid it so I can grind the smaller, easier to kill and more rewarding trash mobs.

The rewards for the work do not scale properly or in layman’s terms: Anet is paying fast food employees $125/hr while Lawyers are paid $75/hr.

because you are farming, not playing. I hope they’ll put a DR on common mobs to stop ppl like you.

To put it bluntly: someone sounds a little resentful and butthurt, applying their arbitrary terms of what is playing a game and what isn’t to others.

Wait what 120+ gold a week and you call you’re self casual?
Wth am i doing wrong i play 2-4h (casual) a day and hardly got 5 gold in 2 days o.O

BabelFish.7234:

Daendur.2357:

BabelFish.7234:

Daendur.2357:

i suggest you to change game. You grinders have already done enough damages with those absurd requests. More grind ?!?! WTF!
I earn more much money than before the patch. Running 1 istance a day is more rewarding than before. Kill a champion that can drop is more rewarding than before.

If its more rewarding then why do I get more rares out of farming lvl 80 trash mobs?
Why do I get more t6 mats out of farming trash mobs?

That champion takes a decent chunk of time to kill and the rewards for doing so don’t make me go “hey look there’s a champion lets zerg up and go kill it!” instead it gives me the exact opposite inclination., I want to avoid it so I can grind the smaller, easier to kill and more rewarding trash mobs.

The rewards for the work do not scale properly or in layman’s terms: Anet is paying fast food employees $125/hr while Lawyers are paid $75/hr.

because you are farming, not playing. I hope they’ll put a DR on common mobs to stop ppl like you.

To put it bluntly: someone sounds a little resentful and butthurt, applying their arbitrary terms of what is playing a game and what isn’t to others.

i am resentful, and i am expressing my opinion, even considering what devs stated. They want(ed) to stop farmeing, otherwise they would not have introduced DR on dungeons.
Grinding and farming to me are abominations and games’ cancers. A distorted and alienating way to play a game. Are there people that like that? Ok, i’m fine … there are also people that like to be ballbusted; let it become the rule?

Daendur.2357:

BabelFish.7234:

Daendur.2357:

BabelFish.7234:

Daendur.2357:

i suggest you to change game. You grinders have already done enough damages with those absurd requests. More grind ?!?! WTF!
I earn more much money than before the patch. Running 1 istance a day is more rewarding than before. Kill a champion that can drop is more rewarding than before.

If its more rewarding then why do I get more rares out of farming lvl 80 trash mobs?
Why do I get more t6 mats out of farming trash mobs?

That champion takes a decent chunk of time to kill and the rewards for doing so don’t make me go “hey look there’s a champion lets zerg up and go kill it!” instead it gives me the exact opposite inclination., I want to avoid it so I can grind the smaller, easier to kill and more rewarding trash mobs.

The rewards for the work do not scale properly or in layman’s terms: Anet is paying fast food employees $125/hr while Lawyers are paid $75/hr.

because you are farming, not playing. I hope they’ll put a DR on common mobs to stop ppl like you.

To put it bluntly: someone sounds a little resentful and butthurt, applying their arbitrary terms of what is playing a game and what isn’t to others.

i am resentful, and i am expressing my opinion, even considering what devs stated. They want(ed) to stop farmeing, otherwise they would not have introduced DR on dungeons.
Grinding and farming to me are abominations and games’ cancers. A distorted and alienating way to play a game. Are there people that like that? Ok, i’m fine … there are also people that like to be ballbusted; let it become the rule?

Not sure if your trolling here or serious. Farmers are needed in every mmo for casual players since they make the supply bigger for alot of mats and thus cheaper for casual players. DR slows down the supply making it impossible for casual players to get a legendary weapon or to afford a ascended backpack. With DR you end up with a game where alot of hardcore farmers will stop playing making mats even more exspensive and with only the the richest players being able to afford the best armor and weapons(legendary’s since they will be boosted to ascended gear or higher) it’s not necessarily the geartreadmill that will kill the game but DR. Therefore grinding and farming are not the cancer but DR is the cancer here and the farmers that are left are the only thing fighting the cancer since they are keeping the prices of mats from rising.

Daendur.2357:

BabelFish.7234:

Daendur.2357:

BabelFish.7234:

Daendur.2357:

i suggest you to change game. You grinders have already done enough damages with those absurd requests. More grind ?!?! WTF!
I earn more much money than before the patch. Running 1 istance a day is more rewarding than before. Kill a champion that can drop is more rewarding than before.

If its more rewarding then why do I get more rares out of farming lvl 80 trash mobs?
Why do I get more t6 mats out of farming trash mobs?

That champion takes a decent chunk of time to kill and the rewards for doing so don’t make me go “hey look there’s a champion lets zerg up and go kill it!” instead it gives me the exact opposite inclination., I want to avoid it so I can grind the smaller, easier to kill and more rewarding trash mobs.

The rewards for the work do not scale properly or in layman’s terms: Anet is paying fast food employees $125/hr while Lawyers are paid $75/hr.

because you are farming, not playing. I hope they’ll put a DR on common mobs to stop ppl like you.

To put it bluntly: someone sounds a little resentful and butthurt, applying their arbitrary terms of what is playing a game and what isn’t to others.

i am resentful, and i am expressing my opinion, even considering what devs stated. They want(ed) to stop farmeing, otherwise they would not have introduced DR on dungeons.
Grinding and farming to me are abominations and games’ cancers. A distorted and alienating way to play a game. Are there people that like that? Ok, i’m fine … there are also people that like to be ballbusted; let it become the rule?

Anet has stated that they did not implement DR to discourage farming. They implemented DR to fight botting. Disadvantage there is they’re damaging farmers, who aren’t botting.

I also fully agree that you’re displaying us, since I would consider myself a farmer, as something we are not. We work to get specific gear because we find it cool/fun to have it. Does that make us any less of a player than you? Also, I’ve met more people during farming than during dungeon runs with pugs. How is that alienating? You’re also taking things off topic by attacking people on their opinions, rather than stating your own opinion (troll…).

Edit: Here’s a post with a developer explaining why they implemented DR: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Let-s-Start-the-Karma-DR-Dialogue/338359

Farming is just one of the limited end-game options.

RMStrooper.7291:

[cut]Farmers are needed in every mmo for casual players since they make the supply bigger for alot of mats and thus cheaper for casual players. DR slows down the supply making it impossible for casual players to get a legendary weapon or to afford a ascended backpack. With DR you end up with a game where alot of hardcore farmers will stop playing making mats even more exspensive and with only the the richest players being able to afford the best armor and weapons(legendary’s since they will be boosted to ascended gear or higher) it’s not necessarily the geartreadmill that will kill the game but DR. Therefore grinding and farming are not the cancer but DR is the cancer here and the farmers that are left are the only thing fighting the cancer since they are keeping the prices of mats from rising.

a casual will probably never go for the legendary… farmers make materials’ price lower, so when the casual sells his Vial of Potent Blood he gets 2s instead of 5 … you know buy – sell … money
the problem is not farming itself but that farmers want to farm for something and “that” something must be better than what other ppl can have.

it would not be legendary if you could do it with in a week

I agree.

I’m rather content to be able to gain a gold a day, which is about where I’m comfortably running right now with out actively farming (largely from dungeons on my 80 and leveling lower level characters).

I can get that up to about 3 G a day with out making myself too unhappy BUT that requires sacrificing the way I want to play.

At this rate it will take me 3-6 months to get my complete set of tier 3 armor or even what OP is grinding out in a week. I don’t know HOW anyone is managing to get like 10 gold a day consistantly, sure sometimes you get an awesome item that sells for a pile, and I did make a lot on southern coast selling mats for a few days but those ones are rare not the norm. How is anyone managing to farm that much with regularity?

This is starting to sound like a broken record – grinding.

Any game will always have aspects of gridning – its called achieving exreme challenges (AEC). There are certain high end achievements that require to be grinded in order to be achieved; otherwise it would not separate the commited players with the rest.

The point is, players reach a plateau of game completion and when are introduced with a challenge that is too high for them, they complain and moan and lash out its going to be grinding. You need to put effrot into something to get a result, the more effort you put it the higher the reward. Simple.

The entire game system is not grinding, just some aspects of it which are mostly associated with AEC. This is normal for any game who will reward players that are willing put that extra effort. Yes it can be tedious, but really, this occurs in real life as well – eg. work projects and long term outcomes.

:)

While I disagree with the issue at hand, since OP is not thinking out of the box…
I must admit that I’m very pleased with the new chests buff, me and another person on /m chat got Dusk out of a simple “chest”.

I have spent the last 3 days trying to farm on the lost shores area for powerful blood and have a grand total of 0 in approximately 8 hours. I have however received 7 karka shells, makes me want to puke thinking how long it will take to get the material for what I would like. Thanks a tone anet……..

Thecomstarbaby.6284:

it would not be legendary if you could do it with in a week

Its not legendary now. It hasn’t been since day one. Running around orr farming mobs for a month straight isn’t legendary in the slightest. Even the scavenger hunt that will supposedly be implemented for precursors doesn’t sound legendary, just more kitten running around, and then you still have to farm the ~500g and ~800k karma.

ANet is obviously still tweaking the reward system and haven’t gotten it right yet. That’s why some areas are wastelands and some are full of people.

I think solarisnox has the right idea. If events were usually profitable, people would play more events. I don’t mean that all events should give equal rewards. But all events should take repair and travel costs into account.

Right now I must do the most profitable events or I can’t afford to play the story or craft. ANet has done too good a job with gold sinks.

We already know the waypoint travel system is based on player level, and repair cost based on item level. ANet can calculate a standard level-based travel cost and add that into an event reward. ANet can make an estimate for repairs based on item level and add that in as well.

I’ve avoided some events because the repair + travel costs would be more than the reward. But if I usually make up travel and repair costs, I can play the game without needing to farm to play the game. I think we’d all be happier with that.

Toast.6459:

Thecomstarbaby.6284:

it would not be legendary if you could do it with in a week

Its not legendary now. It hasn’t been since day one. Running around orr farming mobs for a month straight isn’t legendary in the slightest. Even the scavenger hunt that will supposedly be implemented for precursors doesn’t sound legendary, just more kitten running around, and then you still have to farm the ~500g and ~800k karma.

500g? wow that’s nice, I wish that’s how much I’ve actually spent so far.

As for the powerful bloods post – try the Skelks above the JP waypoint at bottom right of the map.

Tirid.9514:

Wait what 120+ gold a week and you call you’re self casual?
Wth am i doing wrong i play 2-4h (casual) a day and hardly got 5 gold in 2 days o.O

Back when shelters and penitent where decent I salvaged all yellows and sold everything else and made 1 gold an hour, If i had sold the yellows or ecto it would’ve been 3-5 gold an hour, so realistically if all circumstanes remained the same each day one could make 6-10 gold per day in 2 hours of play, which is rather casual.

@Gilosean, what event are you playing that you die enough to repair that much?

Horheristo.3607:

Toast.6459:

Thecomstarbaby.6284:

it would not be legendary if you could do it with in a week

Its not legendary now. It hasn’t been since day one. Running around orr farming mobs for a month straight isn’t legendary in the slightest. Even the scavenger hunt that will supposedly be implemented for precursors doesn’t sound legendary, just more kitten running around, and then you still have to farm the ~500g and ~800k karma.

500g? wow that’s nice, I wish that’s how much I’ve actually spent so far.

As for the powerful bloods post – try the Skelks above the JP waypoint at bottom right of the map.

That isn’t counting the cost of a precursor. Maybe a little closer to 600-700g, but still, the precursor is a large chunk of the cost of a legendary.

Daendur.2357:

because you are farming, not playing. I hope they’ll put a DR on common mobs to stop ppl like you.

They can’t do that and have material requirements like 250 lodestones for exotic (not even Legendary) weapon recipes. The game offers gear which requires you to farm, either for the materials directly (unlikely) or for the gold to purchase them from others.

Just because it’s not your idea of a good time doesn’t mean it’s “not playing”. For the record it’s not my idea of a good time, either. But it absolutely is playing. Farming is something you have to do in order to achieve some of the goals in the game. The players didn’t make the game that way; they’re just accepting the cost of those goals and performing the required actions: farm farm farm. What else can you do?

solarisnox.8521:

ps: I agree with Rishi

Lucas, I disagree with you entirely, it is difficult enough, as it is, to get materials. No one will EVER stop farmers. It’s why they play the game. It’s why they pay for the game and spend money on the game. They do it, so that they can farm materials and gold, and horde them and make more gold.

establishing drop rates, reducing drop rates, limiting drop rates…it does NOTHING to stop farming. It only makes it that much more difficult on all the rest of us who don’t farm.

Common mobs, without crafting mats loottable, just dropping random blue/white weapon armor pieces, is what i meant. The preferred goldseller bot spots, selling all the trash to vendor rinse repeat 24/7. Not surely mobs droppin lodestones, blood etc. or we would have a decrease of supply. I think you’ll agree on this part.

TravisTrout.6803:

Daendur.2357:

because you are farming, not playing. I hope they’ll put a DR on common mobs to stop ppl like you.

They can’t do that and have material requirements like 250 lodestones for exotic (not even Legendary) weapon recipes. The game offers gear which requires you to farm, either for the materials directly (unlikely) or for the gold to purchase them from others.

Just because it’s not your idea of a good time doesn’t mean it’s “not playing”. For the record it’s not my idea of a good time, either. But it absolutely is playing. Farming is something you have to do in order to achieve some of the goals in the game. The players didn’t make the game that way; they’re just accepting the cost of those goals and performing the required actions: farm farm farm. What else can you do?

mmmm let met think … maybe a long term goal is meant to be achieved in a lot of time?
The problem is not the game requiring 250 of something. The problem is the “I want it now!” philosophy.
To me a farmer is only a spoiled brat that wants his awesome new toy.

100% agree.

I lose money on waypoints moving around maps. I lose about 11s per fractal run for repair costs and half the time I break even or n nothing of value drops. So dont tell me to farm there.

Chps and vets drop nothing of use so skip them. I have watched my gold go down for days now. Unless there is some secret that im missing out on here…

Daendur.2357:

TravisTrout.6803:

Daendur.2357:

because you are farming, not playing. I hope they’ll put a DR on common mobs to stop ppl like you.

They can’t do that and have material requirements like 250 lodestones for exotic (not even Legendary) weapon recipes. The game offers gear which requires you to farm, either for the materials directly (unlikely) or for the gold to purchase them from others.

Just because it’s not your idea of a good time doesn’t mean it’s “not playing”. For the record it’s not my idea of a good time, either. But it absolutely is playing. Farming is something you have to do in order to achieve some of the goals in the game. The players didn’t make the game that way; they’re just accepting the cost of those goals and performing the required actions: farm farm farm. What else can you do?

mmmm let met think … maybe a long term goal is meant to be achieved in a lot of time?
The problem is not the game requiring 250 of something. The problem is the “I want it now!” philosophy.
To me a farmer is only a spoiled brat that wants his awesome new toy.

“Farming” simply means repetitively playing game content for the drops or end rewards. That could be running dungeons, doing events, killing one or more types of mobs in the world over and over again, etc.

Although generally one thinks of this type of gameplay as being performed for long stretches at a time, it doesn’t really matter if you do it in periods of 20 minutes or 20 hours. The purpose and the end result are the same: you hammer on some aspect of the game repetitively because you need something that is obtained in that way.

Thus there is no logical, realistic, or meaningful definition of the term that is compatible with your characterization of the act or the players engaged in it. There are, however, several game goals compatible with the act of farming, by design.

In simpler terms, it doesn’t matter if it takes me 2 weeks or 2 years to get what I need. In both cases I am “farming” because that is how these particular goals are reached.

Vinny.6924:

100% agree.

I lose money on waypoints moving around maps. I lose about 11s per fractal run for repair costs and half the time I break even or n nothing of value drops. So dont tell me to farm there.

Chps and vets drop nothing of use so skip them. I have watched my gold go down for days now. Unless there is some secret that im missing out on here…

The secret is better team play? I run lots of dungeons every day where I don’t die or only die once.

I think this is true only for dungeon’s tokens. You have to do a specific dungeon to gain a specific token.
Everything else can be acquired in a lot of ways. You can obtain rare materials from mobs, from players, from the mystic forge or you can buy them.
However OP is complaining they nerfed events like Plinx and that he can’t “grind around 120-150g in one week” any more… i say “Hallelujah”.
a DR doens’t prevent you to farm (repeat the same action endlessly); it just makes grinding not worthing it.

Vinny.6924:

100% agree.

I lose money on waypoints moving around maps. I lose about 11s per fractal run for repair costs and half the time I break even or n nothing of value drops. So dont tell me to farm there.

Chps and vets drop nothing of use so skip them. I have watched my gold go down for days now. Unless there is some secret that im missing out on here…

No secret, but if it’s gold you want, you’re doing that all wrong.

First, fractals are NOT meant to give you money, instead, the exact opposite, you will probably lose some money to grind for your ascended item.

Normal dungeons, however, are a very good money source: Ascalonian Catacombs will probably give you 50s from bosses alone, and then you add loot. I bet you won’t die, so those will be net gains.

Other option is farming, 1 hour in each different lvl 80 area (Malchor, Cursed, Straits, and the new isle), you will probably earn 2-3g / hour.

Try it, and you will notice you stop losing gold and start gaining.

Daendur.2357:

Everything else can be acquired in a lot of ways. You can obtain rare materials from mobs

That is farming.

from the mystic forge

Transmuting materials requires a supply of a lower level material. One cannot forge items from thin air. Lodestones for example can be forged from cores, which are also drops that must be farmed. Thus this is still farming.

from players, or you can buy them.

Those are the same. But that aside, in order to buy them you must perform some action in the game designed to yield money. We’re still farming.

However OP is complaining they nerfed events like Plinx and that he can’t “grind around 120-150g in one week” any more… i say “Hallelujah”.

It’s perfectly fine if you think that, but your opinion on how much gold one should be able to earn in a week does not empower you to redefine the term “farming”.

a DR doens’t prevent you to farm (repeat the same action endlessly); it just makes grinding not worthing it.

Actually, it absolutely would impede the kind of farming that is necessary, by design, in order to complete some game goals. Whether I choose to farm for the items or to farm for the gold to buy the items from others, the inescapable fact is that I must farm something.

If you think it through carefully, you’ll find that your suggestion for DR on drops would do more harm than good. Pretty basic economics here; by making the items rarer you’re lowering the supply but not affecting the demand. Thus, the price must go up. People in need of these items now have two choices: farm for the items even longer because of the DR, or farm for even more gold than they needed before to buy them from others.

In both cases you have only increased the amount of farming necessary to meet these particular game goals; and let me just say, heck no. Some of the material requirements, even for “mere” exotic items, are already absurdly steep. For example, look up Infinite Light; an exotic sword from a forge recipe that requires a whopping 250 charged lodestones. It’s already quite painful enough to obtain them in such numbers, directly or indirectly.

ok, so you are saying that everything in the game is “farming” because you repeatedly use your mouse and your keyboard?
According to Urban dictionary “Farm”: to camp in and area in a video game with the aim of collecting large amounts of gold or items

If you kill 20 mobs travelling cursed shore, then go wvw, than play tp, than use mystic forge (you can put in karma, mystic coins, skill points, glob of ecto) you are not “farming”

Daendur.2357:

ok, so you are saying that everything in the game is “farming” because you repeatedly use your mouse and your keyboard?
According to Urban dictionary “Farm”: to camp in and area in a video game with the aim of collecting large amounts of gold or items

If you kill 20 mobs travelling cursed shore, then go wvw, than play tp, than use mystic forge (you can put in karma, mystic coins, skill points, glob of ecto) you are not “farming”

First allow me to expres my gratitude for telling me how to play this game. Riddle me this, how do you acquire karma, (enough) mystic coins, enough glob of ecto to do anything with the forge? Do you also realise that, for instance, doing your daily every day can also be called farming mystic coins? That is what I would call it. I go into wvw for fun, but I certainly check how many badges I get every time, since I want to have a legendary weapon. If I play wvw for a few hours I’ll enjoy it. But on top of that I am also “farming” badges. Who are you to tell me, or anyone else for that matter, what I can or cannot do in the game? If you wish to give a lecture about how “bad” farming is. Perhaps you should realise that if you repeat ANY kind of content with the goal of collecting any kind of item is essentially called farming. If you kill 20 of the same few monsters, congratulations, you are farming.

And lets not even get into the problems with using the mystic forge after your so-called 20 monster kills. After 20 kills, you’ll have nothing to throw into the forge but porous bones. You need to kill a significant amount to have anything to put in the MF or to put on the TP. Killing a significant amount will result in farming, unless you suggest just running around killing random stuff. It’s rather difficult to get enough karma to get anything worthwhile when you’re killing random stuff. It’ll have to mean doing events. Doing events will have the inherent “problem” (your opinion, not mine) that you need to farm. Afterall, you’re not going to do content that gives less reward for the same effort right? That’s like getting a high degree in some subject and then becoming a dishwasher at a restaurant (nothing wrong with dishwashers). As a level 80 (did you reach that yet or are you just a forum warrior?) you’re not going to do level 5 events…

Again, you are taking things off topic. We were discussing the problems currently involved with accumulating money and items in order to obtain legendary weapons. Do not try to speak for Arena Net if you do not share their views. I have previously linked that they like farmers and approve of that. If you find them stating outright that farming is bad, then feel free to paste that. Until that time, stop taking this off topic by expressing your opinion about how “bad” farming is. If that is your opinion, make a new topic. Thank you.

Sorry man but you are the one who is taking this off topic speaking theorically about what is and what is not “farming”. Participate to an event ( and, of course, kill 50 to 100 mobs ) is really really different from “farming plinx”. You can say what you want, you can even say the sun is cold, but it isn’t.
What you cannot say me, is to stop expressing my opinion.
The topic is about anti-grind system, and I find it beatiful and I hope they will make it even more “anti-grind”.
Thank you.

I agree with Daendur, farming is a poor word. Grinding is the best word for this.
So, an anti-grinding system is good, an anti-farming system is bad.

In all MMO, you have to “farm”. Farming gives you material reward for your time and dedication to the game, and that usually brings further rewards.

Grinding (i.e.: Farming repeatedly in a single area/mob/quest/event to maximize gain/time) is ultimately bad for the game, because it brings the player to either hate the area (in games like WoW) or excessively love it (in games like GW2 where rewards are shared). So, most farmers restrict themselves to the Plinx event because is more efficient than running from event to event in all Tyria.

That brings developers to overreacting and nerfing the area (as it has happened with Plinx event), and that always detract something from the game, as little as it is.

TLDR; Farming is good, Grinding is bad.

The thing with arenanet philosophy is that they don’t want you to grind farm because you don’t need to grind farm. They put in long term goals that people think they have to have now rather than later and people get upset because they have to grind to get it. But you don’t have to grind to get it if you get it the way you are meant to get it. As a long term reward for having fun for all that time doing stuff you like to do.

Now with that said the solution to a cost problem is not to increase the rate at which you can gain the currency to meet that cost but to adjust the factor(s) that are causing the cost problem. The former would impact everything the currency is used for an overall be bad as then everything else bought with that currency would have to be balanced. The latter would only impact the particular thing in need of change and is the correct solution if indeed there is a problem. Obviously they have seen some such problem(s) and are in process of adjustments or have made adjustments to address the cost problem.

Daendur.2357:

Sorry man but

Don’t be sorry, just address this part:

If you think it through carefully, you’ll find that your suggestion for DR on drops would do more harm than good. Pretty basic economics here; by making the items rarer you’re lowering the supply but not affecting the demand. Thus, the price must go up. People in need of these items now have two choices: farm for the items even longer because of the DR, or farm for even more gold than they needed before to buy them from others. In the end you have only INCREASED farming/grinding/whatever-word-you-choose-to-make-up-to-avoid-the-fact-that-you-are-wrong. It is the only logical outcome of your suggestion. It is inevitable.

Not only does your “idea” NOT solve what you personally imagine to be a problem, but in fact you would make it worse. This demonstrates to me that you do not understand one or more aspects of the subject you are discussing.

This forums has plenty of hypocrites.
People who already achieved their goals claim everything is 100% A-ok.

A very saddening situation that Anet is mislead to continue the German regime against the rest of the community.

When someone is trying to achieve a goal which requires X ammount of this and X ammount of that, they need to farm for it. The term “farm” can now be applied to situations where a player needs to move about the map in order to get the required items – not sit in one spot and chop down the same tree over and over and oveeeeer.

Just look at the ammount of people “farming” events and such on ’Malchor’s Leap’ and ‘Cursed Shore’.

ArenaNet has tried to reimage the typical grind/farm system, and it has worked to a certain degree, however, there will always be “exploits” in terms of farming objects ASAP for an achievement such as a legendary weapon.

TravisTrout.6803:

Daendur.2357:

Sorry man but

Don’t be sorry, just address this part:

If you think it through carefully, you’ll find that your suggestion for DR on drops would do more harm than good. Pretty basic economics here; by making the items rarer you’re lowering the supply but not affecting the demand. Thus, the price must go up. People in need of these items now have two choices: farm for the items even longer because of the DR, or farm for even more gold than they needed before to buy them from others. In the end you have only INCREASED farming/grinding/whatever-word-you-choose-to-make-up-to-avoid-the-fact-that-you-are-wrong. It is the only logical outcome of your suggestion. It is inevitable.

Not only does your “idea” NOT solve what you personally imagine to be a problem, but in fact you would make it worse. This demonstrates to me that you do not understand one or more aspects of the subject you are discussing.

What you probably do not consider is that there are a lot of different materials and playing the game in almost its totality (i mean, events, dungeons, wvw, gathering, etc …) you will collect everything but you hardly need everything so you can sell what you don’t need and keep what you need. You will have to buy what you miss at a higher price, due to the lack of supply, but you will also sell your unneeded stuff at a higher price.
IE: i’m on Incinerator and I need 100molten lodestones and 100 destroyer lodestones. So I buy destroyer and molten lodestones but I sell charged, onyx, crystal and corrupted ones … if the price goes up it will be the same to me.