Guild Wars 2

@BG, You seem highly confused. I clearly answered this in my posts. Please read them before commenting on them.

ONCE AGAIN, I dont consider RNG a reliable method, because RNG is RNG. Random is not reliable. Just like the lotto is not considered a reliable source of income, a low low drop rate is not considered a reliable way to acquire gear.

Crafting is reliable because if you put together the materials, you get a set result. It’s not subject to RNG.

For exotic gear: Dungeon Tokens are reliable. Laurels are reliable. You could even consider WvW badges, which are a RNG drop, somewhat reliable simply due to their very high drop rate. And you can consider the TradingPost reliable, in that expenditure of resources (gold) WILL get you the desired item. Yes, the exact price and availability may vary, but in the sense of expenditure=result, it can be considered reliable.

But (look up at my rough drop rate math) the only reliable means to get Ascended in any reasonable time frame, remains crafting. You saying 1+1=2 does not change that fact.

Dand.8231:

If you frostgorge champ farm, you probably down a champ every 3 minutes on average. 180,000 kills x 3 minutes = 540,000 minutes, AKA 375 days of NONSTOP 24/7 champ farming.

That makes it unreliable to acquire in any reasonable amount of time.

Brother Grimm.5176:

Last I checked SINGLE (YOUR word used in YOUR quote) means 1 and 1 is less than 2. My math may be a bit rusty, but it’s obvious you are disregarding the RNG drops (or at least were at the start of this thread) because you don’t deem them as a plausible way to obtain the gear. Again, does not change the fact that it exists as a method to get the gear.

Actually, I had to make a second post, to point out the fact that you’re calling me out on disregarding RNG, LITERALLY the post after I explained I’m disregarding RNG as a viable means, and WHY.

Can you please read before you post?

Dand.8231, they already stated that they felt exotics were too easy to get and that they wanted ascended to be a mid-range yet longer term goal, with legendary being the longest term goal. You can discount drops all you want, but it’s still a means of acquisition. And your whole math bit discounts the part where we get a choice with the current weapon box drops.

If they give trinkets crafting, then I’d ask for weapons and armor to have a token system to match. But so far it’s been tokens/drops or craft/drops – no reason to expect different with armor.

Lastly, “play your own way” does not translate to “do whatever you want and everyone gets everything”. You can play every aspect of this game in lower tier gear (most even naked), and while doing so you gain means to get the better gear. Just because it doesn’t flat out give you the gear, doesn’t mean you’re not getting it, you just have to put some thought and effort in to it.

Dand.8231:

Wanze.8410:

RNG is pretty reliable, once the average rate has been established.

That makes it unreliable to acquire in any reasonable amount of time.

Its still a reliable method. Unreasonable maybe.

Pennry.9215:

Lastly, “play your own way” does not translate to “do whatever you want and everyone gets everything”. You can play every aspect of this game in lower tier gear (most even naked), and while doing so you gain means to get the better gear. Just because it doesn’t flat out give you the gear, doesn’t mean you’re not getting it, you just have to put some thought and effort in to it.

This.

Pennry.9215:

Dand.8231, they already stated that they felt exotics were too easy to get and that they wanted ascended to be a mid-range yet longer term goal, with legendary being the longest term goal. You can discount drops all you want, but it’s still a means of acquisition. And your whole math bit discounts the part where we get a choice with the current weapon box drops.

If they give trinkets crafting, then I’d ask for weapons and armor to have a token system to match. But so far it’s been tokens/drops or craft/drops – no reason to expect different with armor.

Lastly, “play your own way” does not translate to “do whatever you want and everyone gets everything”. You can play every aspect of this game in lower tier gear (most even naked), and while doing so you gain means to get the better gear. Just because it doesn’t flat out give you the gear, doesn’t mean you’re not getting it, you just have to put some thought and effort in to it.

Pennry, you’ve obviously completely missed my point.

You seem to think I want to be able to run around naked in starter zones, auto-attacking ambient mobs, spamming the chat channels and expect to be given ascended armor. THAT’S NOT WHAT I’M SAYING. I just want different and alternate means of acquisition besides crafting and RNG drops.

As I’ve stated, with Exotics, there are multiple ways to acquire. I’m not speaking about the ease of acquisition, just the variety of methods.

Consider this; Exotics are fairly easy to get. If they wanted to make exotics three times as difficult to acquire, they could simply triple the dungeon token cost, triple the mats to craft each one, etc.

But if you removed all methods of getting exotics except dungeon runs, it wouldn’t make getting exotics via dungeon runs harder, it’d just mean you’d be forced to do them instead of being able to, say, craft them. And if you hate dungeon runs but love crafting, you probably wouldn’t be too happy.

The TL;DR version is this: Variety =/= Difficulty. I don’t mind if ascended are difficult, require work, time, thought, and effort. I just don’t want them gated behind Crafting and RNG drops.

Dand.8231:

I did read your post and my was intended to point out that you ignoring one of the methods is NOT valid to support your argument. You certainly have every right to disregard RNG drops, just don’t explain WHY and then expect everyone to accept it and agree there is only a SINGLE method to obtain the items.

This is an argument of semantics and I get your point (you want an easier way to get the desired items). I just don’t agree with your reasoning.

Dand.8231:

Pennry.9215:

Dand.8231, they already stated that they felt exotics were too easy to get and that they wanted ascended to be a mid-range yet longer term goal, with legendary being the longest term goal. You can discount drops all you want, but it’s still a means of acquisition. And your whole math bit discounts the part where we get a choice with the current weapon box drops.

If they give trinkets crafting, then I’d ask for weapons and armor to have a token system to match. But so far it’s been tokens/drops or craft/drops – no reason to expect different with armor.

Lastly, “play your own way” does not translate to “do whatever you want and everyone gets everything”. You can play every aspect of this game in lower tier gear (most even naked), and while doing so you gain means to get the better gear. Just because it doesn’t flat out give you the gear, doesn’t mean you’re not getting it, you just have to put some thought and effort in to it.

Pennry, you’ve obviously completely missed my point.

You seem to think I want to be able to run around naked in starter zones, auto-attacking ambient mobs, spamming the chat channels and expect to be given ascended armor. THAT’S NOT WHAT I’M SAYING. I just want different and alternate means of acquisition besides crafting and RNG drops.

As I’ve stated, with Exotics, there are multiple ways to acquire. I’m not speaking about the ease of acquisition, just the variety of methods.

Consider this; Exotics are fairly easy to get. If they wanted to make exotics three times as difficult to acquire, they could simply triple the dungeon token cost, triple the mats to craft each one, etc.

But if you removed all methods of getting exotics except dungeon runs, it wouldn’t make getting exotics via dungeon runs harder, it’d just mean you’d be forced to do them instead of being able to, say, craft them. And if you hate dungeon runs but love crafting, you probably wouldn’t be too happy.

The TL;DR version is this: Variety =/= Difficulty. I don’t mind if ascended are difficult, require work, time, thought, and effort. I just don’t want them gated behind Crafting and RNG drops.

So you want them to be available for lets say:

1 Million Karma or 100 laurels or 50 Guild Commendations or 10k Badges of Honor?

Just throwing in random numbers here.

Brother Grimm.5176:

you want an easier way to get the desired items

Dand.8231:

I just want different and alternate means of acquisition besides crafting and RNG drops.

I’m not speaking about the ease of acquisition, just the variety of methods.

The TL;DR version is this: Variety =/= Difficulty.

I don’t mind if ascended are difficult

@BrotherGrimm: you sir, fail at reading comprehension.

Wanze.8410:

So you want them to be available for lets say:

1 Million Karma or 100 laurels or 50 Guild Commendations or 10k Badges of Honor?

Just throwing in random numbers here.

Something like that could be fine.

Many people will bring up the issue of sitting on 4 billion karma (more imaginary numbers) and just buying them from the get-go. The counter argument to that is that effort and work WAS put in to earn that karma/laurels/funnymoney/whatever. BEFORE the gear was released rather than after.

An entirely new method that no one yet has access to, such as a new form of token/currency, for example, would also be decent.

For the record, Fractals did it very well with their rings: RNG chance to drop a ring in a daily chest, BUT with pristine tokens dropping so you COULD eventually afford the ring, no matter what. Luck defined the minimum (1 run), and tokens set the maximum (10 runs). That sort of a method actually makes RNG fun!

Dand.8231, I think you missed mine more than I yours. You want a variety of ways to directly obtain ascended armor and weapons. I simply pointed out that they, the devs, didn’t want this as they felt it made exotics too easy. I further point out that although it’s not direct, you are still able to get ascended armor and weapons doing a variety of things.

Now you point out Fractal rings. Note that pristine relics didn’t come out with Fractals, but with a later update. Who’s to say we won’t get more direct methods later? In fact, the devs have said (at several points) that they plan to add more methods for all ascended gear as the game progresses.

So you have the “do it now” by combining all your efforts in game in to crafting or getting lucky and the “do it later” by just waiting. As pointed out in many threads, you don’t need the gear right now as nothing requires such stats.

Finally, adding more direct methods to obtain something does, in fact, make it easier. Case and point in game would be ascended accessories: When they first came out, one could easily get the tokens and ectos to get one from guild commendations and one from laurels in the same time period (even doing mostly the same activities). Variety for exotics just makes the difficulty a joke, thus the devs changed it.