Guild Wars 2

“Polished dungeons and removed the ability to use waypoints while any player is in combat.”

From personal perspective I don’t find everything about this update to be completely ridiculous, such as the waypoint removal while party is in combat, as certain elements like this force the party to work together to a greater degree than previously.

“In PvE, if a player is awarded loot by killing a creature and the loot is of uncommon rarity or higher, a chest will appear that contains the loot that would previously have been on the corpse. If the rarity of the loot on the creature is lower than uncommon, the loot will remain on the creature’s corpse.”

However, with increasing difficulty should come an equal increase in rewards; something that is absent from the “chests” that were supposed to distinguish a particularly rarer or more significant loot drop. The introduction of these “chests” is completely unwarranted with the time and effort used to develop said system needed to and should have been more aptly redirected towards other areas, such as the many bugs which are STILL present across the board in class mechanics. The point here being, if the idea behind this concept was to increase hype or distinguish between more “valuable” loot than that reward should actually be something significant; as is this is yet another slap to the face considering the current dungeon model concerning time and effort vs. reward and yield.

“Fixed a bug where creatures in dungeons were no longer becoming invulnerable to players they couldn’t reach.”

Completely necessary, with no discussion needed. Don’t like it? Get over it.

If you can think of any other topics that I have not listed and need additional consideration, please elaborate upon the subject in a constructive manner so that our message might be received more openly. I am rather curious about the thoughts of others on the first 2 subjects I brought up.

My 2 cents, if Orr drops are up to par with Fractals then that is the place to go. It was already easy/medium difficulty and they made it easier and better drops. In the end I guess I’m ok with that, game didn’t really even need dungeons any way, just keep building up the open world.

As for the changes listed to non-fractal dungeons… very little good change it seems this month.

“Polished dungeons and removed the ability to use waypoints while any player is in combat.”

Meh, It’s only going to encourage more glitching.

Glitch more = Die less = faster run, with minimal deaths and everyone’s happy.

Uh… The reason players were Res-rushing is because your instances have terrible balance, your game has no quality team play mechanics, and your software is bugged out the wazoo. Really, we are all just waiting for something that combines WoW PvE raids with DAoC world PvP and LoTR world immersion. You guys FAILED… but hey at least it’s free to play.

Horrorscope.7632:

My 2 cents, if Orr drops are up to par with Fractals then that is the place to go. It was already easy/medium difficulty and they made it easier and better drops.

I find this to be a bit concerning for dungeons, because as you said if there is no reason for an individual to complete them for anything other than a chance or opportunity at free gear, than what promotes additional flow to these instances? At times it can be difficult to find a group to some of these places, even with sites like gw2lfg.com. The number of enhanced creatures within them should be considered when allocating drop increases. The recent waypoint change will only serve to deter those who are not already “kitted” out for dungeoning, or even begin an increased discrimination campaign to filter out those are not (“ping your build” ring a bell?). This would not be a problem if the rewards from the time spent in some dungeons actually scaled with their intensity. Dungeons happen to be a fantastic way to level, as well as provide the player with a complete armor/weapon set upon reaching 80, but this might not be the case anymore with this most recent update.

I don’t mind the fact that you cannot use waypoints when your party members are in combat, but some bosses are extremely difficult now due to this. I was playing Crucible of Eternity earlier which we ending up abandoning the run due to the difficulty of Subject Alpha – part 2 on path 2 after countless attempts. I can’t imagine how difficult the explorable mode in Arah will be.
People who only run pick-up groups are going to suffer with dungeons terribly.
I think they should forbid waypoints in a new hard difficulty or something similar, which has increased drops/rewards for the more elite players whilst keeping the original difficulty in a normal mode.

I completely agree with you with the loot update, but I think this was done to help people who farm just to leave masses of unlooted corpses with common items located on them. Still a pretty unnecessary update.

The bug in dungeons allowing people to kill certain bosses effortlessly was definitely needed.

I do feel much of the new “additions” or changes are negative in scope. I don’t mind hard, but dungeons now do not allow for entering based on difficulty. Your greater rewards would make complete sense if such an election were possible —-- but not now. All this change will do is further divide the players into those elitists who only will group with other elitists. I believe dungeons will suffer from a lack of participation, as these changes will have a negative effect on players of a level close to that advertised as the level of the quest. I mean really, the game has little or no crowd control (or very short duration) and very long cooldowns on heals. Yet, an itzy bitzy spider one shots you? Thankfully, most packs are tethered to some degree and don’t follow you to eternity. I’ve nothing against the elitist variety as they will always appear in an MMO at some point in time — it would be nice if there could be different levels of the same dungeon so they could play by themselves.

nethykins.7986:

Meh, It’s only going to encourage more glitching.
Glitch more = Die less = faster run, with minimal deaths and everyone’s happy.

This feels like the exact situation the devs might have been trying to avoid with this type of update. I feel that the intent was there, but the content delivered was counterproductive to their goal. If the idea was to prevent exploitation, then providing players with incentive to actually complete and experience the dungeon fully should have been the way to go, not punishing them because the dungeon content was faultily programmed.

Zeelatazi.5284:

I’ve nothing against the elitist variety as they will always appear in an MMO at some point in time — it would be nice if there could be different levels of the same dungeon so they could play by themselves.

This very concept you described was successfully achieved (in my mind anyhow) during Guild Wars with the introduction of Hard Mode. For the everyday gamer looking for a time killer Normal Mode was enough, and for those who preferred to challenge themselves Hard Mode was a good exercise. The elitists you described were most likely the ones who sought to conquer every branch of difficulty for the achievements and bragging rights. GW2 seems a bit weak in that regard, as it seems the end game content was centered around obtaining their “Legendary” weapons. However, like you stated, there needs to be distinguishable layers of difficulty for these areas if there is not going to be a profitable exchange from their completion.

never saw a problem with the old system, most waypoints are far away from the bosses anyway. But now if someone dies they are unable to play untill the rest of the party has killed the boss, which gets harder as each player dies. Don’t see many people doing dungeons anymore when fractuals look a lot easier.

What strategy are you talking about? CoE stratagey=stack on the Alpha boss. The further you are from him the more dmg he does. Come on, what kind of crap is that? People play ranged classes because that fits the play style they enjoy. But they are forced to get a melee weapon and stack….

You don’t even have a real healer class in this game and the so called tanks go down as fast as the light armor players in your dungeons. So now we can’t even use a wp and run back into the fight? Thanks, now a dungeon run will last 2 hours instead of 20 min.

corpsekin.4601:

But now if someone dies they are unable to play untill the rest of the party has killed the boss, which gets harder as each player dies. Don’t see many people doing dungeons anymore when fractuals look a lot easier.

This would be the biggest problem I have with the update in regards to dungeons across the board. Fractals appears to have gotten the best of everything while they have been gimped further. It was unnecessary to do this, without at least providing some beneficial promotions for the other dungeons as well.

your dungeons are terrible to begin with. Throw any group together and run it. Healing is terrible this is only going to make them worse

Mnemesis.8257:

“Polished dungeons and removed the ability to use waypoints while any player is in combat.”

From personal perspective I don’t find everything about this update to be completely ridiculous, such as the waypoint removal while party is in combat, as certain elements like this force the party to work together to a greater degree than previously.

What I disagree about this update is how it mixes an issue with a wrong answer.

Dungeons were designed to be highly focused on teamwork. The current res-rushing mechanic discourages the type of behavior we intended when a fellow player goes down.

Which is a lie.
Teamrezzing is discouraged by the fact that reviving pushs the player on top of the aggro, i.e. : the boss will change target to focus on the rezzer, making the reviving impossible to complete.

Teamrezzing will be even more discouraged with this update.

At least when bad PUG members die, they can come back. Now you’re just on your own.

Demonik.9571:

You don’t even have a real healer class in this game and the so called tanks go down as fast as the light armor players in your dungeons. So now we can’t even use a wp and run back into the fight? Thanks, now a dungeon run will last 2 hours instead of 20 min.

Shalafein.2340:

your dungeons are terrible to begin with. Throw any group together and run it. Healing is terrible this is only going to make them worse

Your primary healing I think is reasonably fine, but secondary effects like regen typically scale with increased healing power, which more than pays for itself in party environments. If healing is going to become a problem with this recent development, than it will only pressure additional players to become more broad in their party scheme through improved healing builds. Ever mix a full healing ranger and water ele together? The impact on party survival is astounding, granted there are certain areas where even this cannot prevent a 1 hitter (usually avoided via an observant dodge).

I can’t wait to see this new no waypoint thing come full circle. There’s times when I’ve gone to a waypoint because I died under the boss and nobody was going to resurrect me anyways, so I might as well rejoin the fight and not be a useless corpse. Actually, with this new waypoint system I suspect there’s going to be a lot of useless corpses. Other times, if you’re trying to resurrect, the boss aggros on you and either starts to try to attack the one trying to heal you or AOE’s the crap out of your corpse. I die a lot in dungeons, because I’m a theif and sometimes I make a wrong move or just get stuck in a situation that’s going to kill me, and while sometimes I wait to get rezzed, other times, the rest of my group is suffering and so I want to get to a waypoint and get back to help them without getting in their way with my dying. Like one person previously mentioned, this is only going to deter teamwork and if you happen to make a slip up or a mistake, chances are you’ll never get to dungeon any time soon since your name will go around as “that person with crappy equips” or “that person that always dies and needs to be rezzed, waste of time.”

The devs totally missed the point. The reason people were res rushing IN THE FIRST PLACE is because the dungeons are horribly balanced and they were dying.

Removing that without actually toning down some of these ridiculous events in dungeons just makes people want to rage quit.

Haven’t done a lot of dungeons, but I’m excited with this patch. Dungeons would feel more epic compared to the cheap waypoint zerg.

Dkilley.7841:

I don’t mind the fact that you cannot use waypoints when your party members are in combat, but some bosses are extremely difficult now due to this. I was playing Crucible of Eternity earlier which we ending up abandoning the run due to the difficulty of Subject Alpha – part 2 on path 2 after countless attempts.

Pretty much this. Subject Alpha is one of those bosses that you’re pretty much guaranteed 1 person is dead at any given time. Mind you, you fight him a third time too, and he only gets harder.

The game is balanced around using the waypoint to run back to the fight, because there are too many bosses right now that guarantee a player death. I mean a 0% chance of survival if a person slips and gets hit. Even if you build a lot of toughness and vitality, it doesn’t matter, you’re going all the way down.

And the waypoint res thing made it possible to run with some random group that you didn’t have planned. I guess if it gets implemented, dungeons will be a hardcore perfected group only type of thing where everyone knows the ins and outs of every boss they fight.

Idk about Orr dungeons and all of that since I dont have an 80 yet but I have noticed alot of running thru the dungeons and not fighting bosses to get thru just because the bosses are so over powered its crazy. I’m all for tough fights and needing a midlevel skill to defeat them bt when the bosses 1shot 9/10 of the time its just crazy. I really enjoy the way higher lvl players get rolled back to max lvl of the dungeons it prevents all kinda of stuff and just simply makes everyone equal but the bosses are 30 levels higher than the actual dungeon it seems and thats not fun. the first time i did cm i rage quit because i went broke on repairs it cost me 40s to repair my gear at level 30 and 30 and 40s is alot to a new player at lvl 30.

Considering that the messages coming out of the GW2 camp, is that you shouldn’t trust anyone in game as they’re either botting or trying to steal your account, there are only a few people I trust enough to do anything with in the game, so having a patch that’s more about teamwork seems complete tosh to me, the dungeons are stupidly hard as it is, unless they’re going to put some scaling in for the amount of people that’re in the party then I still won’t be doing them

I think the changes to ‘res-rushing’ are terrible! I would say it solves a problem that doesn’t exist but even sure it solves anything!

When a player is downed, it was the case that the other players would make their best effort to res him so they could continue killing a boss of doing an event with a full team. This didn’t happen when they were defeated because it takes so much longer!

I worry that Arah, which is already a preposterously hard dungeon, will be impossible because everyone dies at least once during Lupicus (although to be fair players seem to be getting better at this) and there is no time to res anyone, particularly during Phase 2.

As was mention earlier, add a Hard Mode in which you can’t ‘res-rush’ as was done to great effect in GW1.

I can’t see this being a popular update at all.

I get the changes, I really do. What I don’t get is the reason they would remove the waypoints before implementing other changes. For instance, ok you don’t like the lack of teamwork. But why can’t we res our party members? Maybe they’re new and they don’t know how the fight is fought. You can explain something but actually experiencing it is the best way to understand. Maybe they’re actually level 35 in a level 35 exploreable and not geared in full 80 exotic stuff. Maybe it’s a party of all elementalists who only know each other and don’t want to pug. The thing is sometimes when someone goes down, they go down and there’s no saving them.

I think most people’s major gripe with this is that instead of removing the ACTUAL issues (balance issues, hp sponge bosses, “overpowered” bosses, etc) that caused people to glitch and waypoint instead of ressing someone Anet just shut down the one method that actually gave players a chance of not wiping and being able to survive the dungeon.

I think what needs to be done is to actually test the dungeons how they were “intended” to be played. Get some people to run AC explore in an all 35 party, and the same with all the dungeons. Maybe get them some bad gear even to really emphasize what a pug is. What a person new to dungeons is. That will truly help Anet understand where the problems lie in their dungeons.

I know when I started doing explorable dungeons I did them for gear as a badly armored level 80 with my guild who didn’t particularly know exactly how the dungeons were run. It was tough but having the ability to run back saved us many times. If it weren’t for that I probably would have given up on doing dungeons. I think that’s where we’re headed now.

my opinion is that the easier dungeons you will see more activity such as AC and fractals, arah however will see even fewer players due to lupicus, a great group will be able to do this but in my experience theres one death minimum to each lupi fight, and because of that i wont be able to get my gift of zhaitan. not unless the party (which they wont) withdraws from combat resetting the boss and enabling the WP for the dead party members.

If possible, could a mod merge this with other patch feedback.

Kinda of Melancholy feeling IDK…

1. While I’m laughing about the expected crying, I see myself to be afraid of doing some certain paths/dungeons. (Until I level up my guard/warrior)

2. Huge Expectation turned into Extremely Huge Disappointment
Without equal modification to balance dungeon,
“Polished dungeons and removed the ability to use waypoints while any player is in combat” thingy had became the worst thing happened ever. (Well, just what I have been afraid of.)

3. I see ZERO effort on the dungeon revamp part. Absolutely no respect for players, every players. While you want to solve the waypoint rezz problem, you did not realize how wrong it is to not consider those who will get one/two hit by the boss and in fact that light/middle armor classes had the toughest time encounter those problems which majority of the classes are wear light/middle armor. But I love scholar classes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

4. The meaning of PUG. I consider myself to PUG all the time. Why? Because I wanted to play with DIFFERENT people and everyone. Now that some dungeons will become legendary and scare the frick out of 50% players.

5. To the SKILLED players. I not that good. I am not that skilled. Do you hate me? It’s not that I don’t curse when I die, but I love my mes/ele/necro. I know how to dodge, ty.

6. Practice makes perfect. How many are willing to endure others’ practice sessions? While dying makes people rage quit, curse on others, and kicks. You just make everything worse.

7. I refuse to be the test subject. I dare the dev team who are resposible for the test of the dungeon change to form a group of mes/ele/necro to go record a video on fighting with Arah explorable path4. Or do you even test them? I want to play with my favorite class just like everyone does, but when I see that the 4/5 of group wear light armor…

8. One day people are going to stop. Stop giving you guys the obvious answers. The stupidity has gone beyond unbelievable.

9. I’m tired. This is probably a break point for me. Offline after FOTM daily.

Thankfully, I have done my dungeon hunt recently with Arah. Thanks you guys for the runs <3, I know dying on Lupi is kinda unavoidable for me, thanks for embracing.
I did not really lose much this time. As for the others who are still working on the tokens….
Well, all I can say is may the god of fortune be with you.

I think the funniest part is that they noticed players were rezzing and wping a lot in some dungs but… they didn’t care to check why?
Instead they immediately concluded it was a rez-rushing abuse and nerfed the scaling down.

Best joke of the month.

It’s really quite simple. ArenaNet wasn’t selling very many of their Revive Orbs that are sold in the Black Lion Trading Company for gems. This new change will force people to start buying these orbs in droves to be able to complete dungeons.

Beyond this, I too am disappointed with the changes and would like to see something a bit less harsh than completely taking away the WP’s. Maybe if you die you have to wait 15 seconds before you can port.

Task.4509:

It’s really quite simple. ArenaNet wasn’t selling very many of their Revive Orbs that are sold in the Black Lion Trading Company for gems. This new change will force people to start buying these orbs in droves to be able to complete dungeons.

^ have a feeling this is why they made the dungeon updates in two parts.

ad WP update: YAY! Finally, very much needed (and actually something I love about Fractals is now even in dungeons).

ad Orr update: Haven’t spend much time in Orr since update, but I really like the updated karma vendors (I finally got my exotic Cavalier accessories and back slot), not speaking about jewelery box, WTF is this for? Bought few to test it and all I got was Liquid Karma pots

Ad updated CoF: New event is kinda cool (event itself is much better then previous event), but I think the mobs are ridiculously weak now, two swing of my sword and thrash is dead and the assassin takes one 100B and he’s done. What could help is if the assassin wasn’t visible (not just blurry, but Thief like invisible) until he’s at Magg (as it happened in my group, he never made it near the Magg), then he could do something like 5s preparation (so group will have 5s window of opportunity to kill him), then hit the Magg. Also wouldn’t hurt if the Charr archers actually shoot at Magg.

Oh and if this is gonna be read by some dev, I have small request: Please adjust Maggs AI a bit in the search for magmacyte (not sure about spelling, but you know what I mean). It’s happening more often then not, that he for no reason aggroes 3-5 mobs, then it takes ages for them to kill him. If we go down to him and kill mobs and ress him, he immediately aggroes something else (even at start of cavern, while we’re at the end of it). While all we want him to do is to run to stone.

They broke fractals, that’s a big thumb down for me.

Bigger penalty for death is exactly what this game needs (it’s end-game after all). Now just add more WP’s asap.

The Blanket of Vine Spit in TA is ridiculous now. You used to be able to stay out of the high damage circles but LOTS of lesser (not much less) damage circles that blanket the whole area are MUCH hard even nearly immposible than fewer high damage ones. Yes it can be done but it is a good bit of luck that you have the right jobs to DPRs zerg the champ down.

“Polished dungeons and removed the ability to use waypoints while any player is in combat.”

This is stupid and needs to go. What irritates me most is that the dungeons are already glitchy enough as it is, Now I’m seeing people dead and stuck in combat. The entire party is dead on AC exp P2 and yet we are all stuck in combat for more than 10 min. Not to mention, dungeon Story NPC’s tend to initiate combat and take forever to die. No matter how I look at this decision, Its bad.
There simply is no logical need to remove that ability.

Spend time fixing the current dungeon issues before you add or create new ones please.

I am all for making it harder or impossible to glitch a boss though. I hate getting in a party that just wants to stand on a cliff and dps just cuz they can. That method sometimes takes just as much effort to get into postion as it would to just kill the boss properly.

Darth.4329:

“Polished dungeons and removed the ability to use waypoints while any player is in combat.”

This is stupid and needs to go. What irritates me most is that the dungeons are already glitchy enough as it is, Now I’m seeing people dead and stuck in combat. The entire party is dead on AC exp P2 and yet we are all stuck in combat for more than 10 min. Not to mention, dungeon Story NPC’s tend to initiate combat and take forever to die. No matter how I look at this decision, Its bad.
There simply is no logical need to remove that ability.

Spend time fixing the current dungeon issues before you add or create new ones please.

I am all for making it harder or impossible to glitch a boss though. I hate getting in a party that just wants to stand on a cliff and dps just cuz they can. That method sometimes takes just as much effort to get into postion as it would to just kill the boss properly.

Yeah I really don’t like this change either, and that stuck in combat glitch happened to me already multiple times… Also me and my guild were thinking about what would happen if someone accidentally rolls off a cliff into lava or something? How is this supposed to encourage ppl to res you? Are they all supposed to go drown in the lava with you to encourage teamwork? I can already hear people saying “well maybe you shouldn’t do something as stupid as roll into lava” True, but I thought this game was supposed to encourage teamwork. If I can imagine some people on the forums saying something like this, then I can imagine even more clearly how disgruntled some players might get when someone pulls a mistake like that in a dungeon group, especially if the other 4 can’t pick up the dps loss (like in a pug group with some lower levels or something where it would be a little harder for some of the lower level players to pick up the slack). Then think about just if someone dies from a mob or a boss fight or some normal dungeon death in combat. Think about how people would be looking down on other players and how this might start more ‘elitist’ arguments in dungeons out of fear of having to do something allll over again after waiting for everyone to die. This is Guild Wars2. This is not an aggressively competitive mmo. In WvW you can’t even see an opponent’s name so that fights and griefing won’t happen. If Guild Wars2 is this concerned about everyone getting along then this waypoint thing needs to go; it will only cause fights in dungeon groups. There will always be people that get frustrated with others easier than most, but this I think might add a whole other level of frustration that every player will feel in dungeons, easier or not. I don’t think this is how the dungeons should be made challenging; to me at the very least, this just makes it annoying.

I absolutely love the new “No WP after death” update!

Now the people who can’t hold their own in the dungeon with me find themselves watching me fight and win.. gives them a little time to rethink their strategy.

Edit: For example today – Had one person leave the Arah group right before Lupi, so we were stuck with 4. Couldn’t get another in (due to patching and people having a different client version). Ended up four manning Lupi, the Guardian and Elementalist friends were pretty bad at the fight (ended up dying during P2). My ele friend and I then proceeded to 2 man Lupi, no problem.

It makes everything so much more interesting

from my 10 years of MMO it’s the first time when dungeon asking party for wipe before resurrect.
if from this point we can considerate GW2 innovating, you get my award.
question now: is it good to play either?
my answer: NO
dungeons are BORING smelly run where WP stay in a very beginning. if you die you need to rush back all long. Arah was very frustrating run experience to me and I’ll avoid to get it again.
Actually, all dungeons here are not very enjoyable, and if some are OK but grant like no rewards (beside gear tokens).
You want to avoid res/run? Why not asking self why we die all time? may be it because we don’t have healer, not even NPC , or may be we have large group of OP mobs applying conditions?
anyway, good luck with “die all as one”, this update gonna play for like 20% of players max.
as in any game about 20% of players like to have hard challenge (even for nothing) and very boring to run dungeon, this way they can spend a life at preparation, fund group etc.
Why not make pleasure for these 20% and put very hard challenging HM dungeons? Let them get more tokens and better rewards, so they will not work for nothing
BUT let other get some fun, medium challenging dungeons where we don’t need to die at all, and 100% not need to DIE ALL AS ONE.
WoW failed on Cata dungeon challenges, so think about and please listen what 80% of population require.
20% still a few, they will enjoy hardness, then getting bored, then found they made all others left game = FAIL.
I know here is low risk as game is free to play, but think of decreased already population and please try to make game enjoyable for all.

George Steel.1804:

Edit: For example today – Had one person leave the Arah group right before Lupi, so we were stuck with 4. Couldn’t get another in (due to patching and people having a different client version). Ended up four manning Lupi, the Guardian and Elementalist friends were pretty bad at the fight (ended up dying during P2). My ele friend and I then proceeded to 2 man Lupi, no problem.

Wasn’t very kind not to rez them.. which is completely possible on that fight.

THIS THING SUCKS! I am not so skilled i have to admit it, but the heck rez-rush was the only way to learn something or to not feel an useless person with 4 skilled players. Thanks a lot now i won’t play dungeons anymore. Also for the new people at their first dungeon. they will be scared and the exp players will kick them out or will nicelly say " sorry we are full" after asking how many times you did the dungeon, of course Xd. I was a great Anet fan, no i start to think i have to rethink :P

i tought the chest thing to be a good idea, but also thought uncommon is rare and up. now we get chest spaming for nothing really…

George Steel.1804:

I absolutely love the new “No WP after death” update!

Now the people who can’t hold their own in the dungeon with me find themselves watching me fight and win.. gives them a little time to rethink their strategy.

Edit: For example today – Had one person leave the Arah group right before Lupi, so we were stuck with 4. Couldn’t get another in (due to patching and people having a different client version). Ended up four manning Lupi, the Guardian and Elementalist friends were pretty bad at the fight (ended up dying during P2). My ele friend and I then proceeded to 2 man Lupi, no problem.

It makes everything so much more interesting

Any player who understands the game mechanics will perform well.
The FACT is, The dungeon mechanics are extremely unforgiving.
There is no debating this.
Red circles appear in stacks on the ground around your character and give you less than a second to move out of the way only to dodge and land in a new circle and DIE. FACT. NPC’s ignore stealth effects ALL the time. They have obnoxious range, The Most OP cripple/stun effects in the game. 50 Second long poision effects and spells that can 1 shot kill with AOE.

Group comp.. Generally people dont pick the right Rolls for dungeons. They are usually spec’d for solo play . Worse more lost of pugs try to push a group of all 1 class through a dungeon. like 4 thieves and a ele . . . Yes I know it can be done. but thats if they’re all 80 and maxed out + are Good at their class.
With No WP’s in combat I no longer see this happening.

These dungeons aren’t hard once you get the hang of them. But they are unforgiving.
I am Considered Pro with dungeons and I still die due to the occasional mistake but mostly due to the glitchy BS that is Notorious with all the dungeons.
What makes these dungeons FUN was the fact that If someone screwed up there was no GROUP penalty.

Now Dragging a rookie pug through is a massive Pain in the Backside. I simply will not do it anymore.
There is a reason why Most groups that run these dungeons regularly will run all 80s or 4, 80s and 1 level 35+. You hardly ever see a full group of players who match the entry level bracet required for the dungeon. People want to farm these dungeons. They want to make quick work of them so they can spend time doing Other things.

i dont find a SINGLE dungeon change to be bad in the update -.- maybe one.. i dislike making some things easier then it already was to make up for nubish exploiters being unable to exploit everything…. but besides that i love that they are trying to make people actually do the fights as intended, there is still a long way to go for this but its a step in the right direction..

still got the general issue’s with dungeons though… and with base mechanics like red circle’s not being fully filled with transparent colour since it happends too oftend that the little red line is covored by something and thereby not visible -.-

marika.3165:

THIS THING SUCKS! I am not so skilled i have to admit it, but the heck rez-rush was the only way to learn something or to not feel an useless person with 4 skilled players. Thanks a lot now i won’t play dungeons anymore. Also for the new people at their first dungeon. they will be scared and the exp players will kick them out or will nicelly say " sorry we are full" after asking how many times you did the dungeon, of course Xd. I was a great Anet fan, no i start to think i have to rethink :P

or OR !! you could go do ac or any other dungeon where bosses are MEAND TO LET YOU LEARN!!! how to freaking dodge -.-
you are not suppose to try out lupi if you can’t even dodge correctly at kholar…… … .. this exploit crap have made the community into noobish no skill whiners -.- fgs

George Steel.1804:

I absolutely love the new “No WP after death” update!

Now the people who can’t hold their own in the dungeon with me find themselves watching me fight and win.. gives them a little time to rethink their strategy.

Edit: For example today – Had one person leave the Arah group right before Lupi, so we were stuck with 4. Couldn’t get another in (due to patching and people having a different client version). Ended up four manning Lupi, the Guardian and Elementalist friends were pretty bad at the fight (ended up dying during P2). My ele friend and I then proceeded to 2 man Lupi, no problem.

It makes everything so much more interesting

Perfect example that this patch’s intention is already failed.

Erebus.7568:

marika.3165:

THIS THING SUCKS! I am not so skilled i have to admit it, but the heck rez-rush was the only way to learn something or to not feel an useless person with 4 skilled players. Thanks a lot now i won’t play dungeons anymore. Also for the new people at their first dungeon. they will be scared and the exp players will kick them out or will nicelly say " sorry we are full" after asking how many times you did the dungeon, of course Xd. I was a great Anet fan, no i start to think i have to rethink :P

or OR !! you could go do ac or any other dungeon where bosses are MEAND TO LET YOU LEARN!!! how to freaking dodge -.-
you are not suppose to try out lupi if you can’t even dodge correctly at kholar…… … .. this exploit crap have made the community into noobish no skill whiners -.- fgs

You’re right. Alot of people refused to group for things like AC p1 and CoF p3 because they’re bad. They want the easiest possible run. refuse to learn the mechanics, Form a proper group with proper group composition. They whine and cry because they can’t do it. I agree there.
However, Punishing a group for the lack of skill of another player by forcing them to either wipe, rez (occasionally impossible) or finish a man short is dumb. I dont mind it on fractal runs. but on these other dungeons? its just stupid. I don’t care how it’s said or by whom, These dungeons do not classify as end game by any means. Fractals has far more potential to be considered end game as it gives better gear, charator progression and requires a degree of know-how. AC- Arah are more like farmable entry level dungeons.
dont’ get me wrong I love Gw2 but I cannot accept the current dungeon system as an end game level routine. End game in my MMO experience of 10 years + is 10 man + raids. Real PVP where 1v1 and 2v2 fights matter. NON ZERG type pvp where individual player skill matters and its rewarded. There simply is no player skill required for zerging a node or 5v1 mini zerges accross spvp or WvW. Period.
I personally have a inner NEED to destroy players 1v1.
I Need individual charator progression to feel a drive to continue playing.
Once that progression platues and theres no room for more improvment, I roll a new toon or stop playing. Skins are NOT.. progression.

Save the comments defending zerging. and save the wow reference comments.
“if you want “real pvp, go play wow”
“spvp isnt about 1v1, its about capping the nodes FTW”
“WvW isnt and arena bro, … its server vs server.”
“learn to Gw2 bro…”
Ya ya, I know. Regardless, It doesnt have that real end game feel.. and pvp feels like highshcool. Feeding that typical wussy mentality of power in numbers and whoever brings the bigger group of witnesses wins. besides PVP can’t be classified as end game. its PVP.
PVP Always has been an entity all its own. separate from the storyline runs and dungeon progression.
Dungeons should be dugeons, End game should be End game raiding and Dynamic events.
I see no reason why we can’t just take some Large DE’s, Stick them in an dungeon, allow parties larger than 5 man ( that would be nice too) and call it a raid.
Allow for larger rewards since these dungeons should be much harder and take the WP’s out of those dungeons futher increasing the need for player organisation and skill.
this is what will expand your player base. Not more " routine Busy work" AKA The Grind.
HC rpg’ers dont care as much about skins and longer, harder grinds as they do about content variety and toon progression. skins are nice, everyone wants to look fly.. but thats not at all enough reason to keep plugging away or tossing money at the game. Player base translates to revenue and more micro transactions.
Im sure Anet sees what I see if they really crunch the numbers. Gw2 has an influx of players that come and go. Most leave for the exact reasons I stated above. and most of those players? well those are the cats that will play everyday, constantly, throw money at this game over and over again. Not the type of people a buisness wants to lose.

Erebus.7568:

or OR !! you could go do ac or any other dungeon where bosses are MEAND TO LET YOU LEARN!!! how to freaking dodge -.-
you are not suppose to try out lupi if you can’t even dodge correctly at kholar…… … .. this exploit crap have made the community into noobish no skill whiners -.- fgs

Don’t listen to him, don’t use dodges, you might be banned for exploiting.

The issue I see here is we have two separate factions: the elitist “I SOLO THIS” players and the … Let’s call them the casual players.

With the pre-patch mechanic, both parties were pleased: elitist could run their paths naked with uncommon weapons if they wanted, or do level 20+ fractals… And the casual players had their already hard enough dungeon difficulty.

With this update, only one faction is pleased: the elitist. In other words, they’re pushing down our throats/Force on us their perspective by saying “DEAL WITH IT, it’s fine for us!!!”, no, just no, that’s not a good attitude.
The casual players have a harder time, it’s almost impossible for them, it discourage and it sucks. Most of the dungeon runs are made of random people too, which make things harder.

It’s easy to say “JUST DON’T DIE AND LEARN!!!1”, but it’s even easier to think about us. We got used to a 3 months old mechanic and now we’re forced to change all our tactics. And yes, even when we look at walkthroughs, wikis, youtube videos, we’re still spending hours (without succeeding) on subject Alpha. It discourage. The game was said to be fun, it’s not for many players at the moment since the dungeons are the only things to do once we hit 80.

Guild Wars 2 was supposed to please almost everyone, both elitist and casual players. With this new difficulty, they only pleased one part. Give us a difficulty setting at the beginning like the fractals and we’ll be pleased. But don’t punish us for trying to spend time in dungeons and earn tokens when we don’t have the same amount of time to give to the game as other players.

Thank you.

Not really. People who preferred throwing themselves at the boss without actually learning the mechanics will have a hard time.

I dunno, my guild ran three dungeons last night, HOTW path 1, TA up path, and took three new members through CM Story. Personally I thought it was much easier than before, all of the bosses/silver mobs seemed to do less damage, and died faster than before. We only had 2-3 deaths out of all three runs (the new people in CM) and it didn’t seem to effect the group much, we just finished the boss and rezzed the dead players after the fight. I was initially worried that the patch might make dungeons too difficult for the average player, but it seems to me (so far at least) that they may be a bit too easy now.