make an “all welcome” post it usually fills with at least 1 necro. that is more than enough to scare off these unfun people who don’t bother complying with the lfg message. Alternatively, you can roll a necro yourself, even more fun when pugroulette in arah.
10 times out of 10 I’ve had a good experience when it comes to the option of group decisions in blowing up lupi. They sometimes ask “wall on wall lupi?” i immediately say “no” and that is that.
EU is different then. A very large amount of pugs just assume that they are going to 1shot him.
The proper solution here is to make GL’s projectiles non-reflectable. That’ll stop this and make the fight more interesting in general.
Oh my GOD. Genius. This is absolutely PERFECT!
Hey, why don’t we completely remove reflects and absorptions from the game? I mean, it’s not like 2 (1 in particular) classes heavily rely on them. It’d only require an overhaul!
Maybe even make reflects do half damage – you have to admit, reflects are a bit overpowered, and should be more for defense than offense.
To be fair, it’s not that reflect skills are overpowered, it’s what they’re reflecting is overpowered. Lupi is throwing out enough damage in one AoE barrage to KO himself, so perhaps what needs to be nerfed is his damage output, which could probably be cut in half and still one-shot most players.
Maybe even make reflects do half damage – you have to admit, reflects are a bit overpowered, and should be more for defense than offense.
To be fair, it’s not that reflect skills are overpowered, it’s what they’re reflecting is overpowered. Lupi is throwing out enough damage in one AoE barrage to KO himself, so perhaps what needs to be nerfed is his damage output, which could probably be cut in half and still one-shot most players.
The reflects are like 9-20k each iirc it’s just that there are a few dozen of them.
I bought WoD yesterday, even pugging arah doesn´t make fun anymore. People are using this exploit way to often on EU servers.
Arah/fractals/hotw, are they only dungeons i do often at the moment.
make an “all welcome” post it usually fills with at least 1 necro. that is more than enough to scare off these unfun people who don’t bother complying with the lfg message. Alternatively, you can roll a necro yourself, even more fun when pugroulette in arah.
10 times out of 10 I’ve had a good experience when it comes to the option of group decisions in blowing up lupi. They sometimes ask “wall on wall lupi?” i immediately say “no” and that is that.
EU is different then. A very large amount of pugs just assume that they are going to 1shot him.
Also this is no solution tbh
Yea I figured it might be a little different in EU. Didn’t offer it as a solution, just an alternative way to get you a fun fight.
The proper solution here is to make GL’s projectiles non-reflectable. That’ll stop this and make the fight more interesting in general.
Oh my GOD. Genius. This is absolutely PERFECT!
Hey, why don’t we completely remove reflects and absorptions from the game? I mean, it’s not like 2 (1 in particular) classes heavily rely on them. It’d only require an overhaul!
We joke, but this is the easiest way Anet can change it. The only reason why they have not is because the crying lashback would be insane.
Would be nice if the wall behind lupi becomes untargetable by ground target abilities
1. Look on the ground
2. Use Feedback
3. …
4. Profit
I guess but that means feedback is on ground not on top of the wall? If you can place feedback on top of the wall then when he is in the wall make him reset to middle so no more wall pushing.
Would be nice if the wall behind lupi becomes untargetable by ground target abilities
1. Look on the ground
2. Use Feedback
3. …
4. Profit
I guess but that means feedback is on ground not on top of the wall? If you can place feedback on top of the wall then when he is in the wall make him reset to middle so no more wall pushing.
You can. Sometimes Locust Swarms will spawn on top of the wall. It’s trivial to Feedback one of them. Temporal Curtain can also be used to 1-shot Lupi, just like WoR, it’s just that the placement is more difficult.
I prefer the idea of a ~20 projectile limit for all reflect skills. Allows them to stay very useful without them becoming as game breakingly powerful as with Lupicus. Also makes them less of “my whole party is now invincible” buttons in instances such as grawl shaman.
14 Dungeon paths soloed
Lupi solos on 9/9 professions
Wost Engi NA
My favorite idea is what they done to Deadeye Dunwell, one of his attack was extremely powerful when reflected at first, so they reduced the damage of it when reflected. I think every very powerful range attack should be reduced when reflected they done it already so it is doable.
This would require a dev to go over every bosses and ask himself, “is this too powerful when reflected?” which shouldn’t take too much time.
My favorite idea is what they done to Deadeye Dunwell, one of his attack was extremely powerful when reflected at first, so they reduced the damage of it when reflected. I think every very powerful range attack should be reduced when reflected they done it already so it is doable.
This would require a dev to go over every bosses and ask himself, “is this too powerful when reflected?” which shouldn’t take too much time.
How about reflects not scaling with enemy power instead use the players power value? Oo
My favorite idea is what they done to Deadeye Dunwell, one of his attack was extremely powerful when reflected at first, so they reduced the damage of it when reflected. I think every very powerful range attack should be reduced when reflected they done it already so it is doable.
This would require a dev to go over every bosses and ask himself, “is this too powerful when reflected?” which shouldn’t take too much time.
How about reflects not scaling with enemy power instead use the players power value? Oo
With 25 might and everything, the damage from an attack like lupicus would still make insane amount of damage.
My favorite idea is what they done to Deadeye Dunwell, one of his attack was extremely powerful when reflected at first, so they reduced the damage of it when reflected. I think every very powerful range attack should be reduced when reflected they done it already so it is doable.
This would require a dev to go over every bosses and ask himself, “is this too powerful when reflected?” which shouldn’t take too much time.
How about reflects not scaling with enemy power instead use the players power value? Oo
With 25 might and everything, the damage from an attack like lupicus would still make insane amount of damage.
I’m sure they could fudge some numbers to make it a low enough coefficient yes?
Would be nice if the wall behind lupi becomes untargetable by ground target abilities
1. Look on the ground
2. Use Feedback
3. …
4. Profit
I guess but that means feedback is on ground not on top of the wall? If you can place feedback on top of the wall then when he is in the wall make him reset to middle so no more wall pushing.
I meant that you can land a feedback on top of the wall, not on the ground, without anything targeted, even if you’re almost next to the wall. Just like landing a dragons tooth or comet on fire fields under you.
One shotting is definitely annoying, especially seeing it in records. Lupi is one of the few dungeon bosses where coordination and dodging are actually necessary for a clean kill.
Also, someone mentioned capping the quantity of reflects and that sounds appealing to me, though preferably capping reflects from each individual source (perhaps in a time-frame) rather than collectively so it’s still usable in places like WvW or at dredge car in SE.
My favorite idea is what they done to Deadeye Dunwell, one of his attack was extremely powerful when reflected at first, so they reduced the damage of it when reflected. I think every very powerful range attack should be reduced when reflected they done it already so it is doable.
This would require a dev to go over every bosses and ask himself, “is this too powerful when reflected?” which shouldn’t take too much time.
How about reflects not scaling with enemy power instead use the players power value? Oo
With 25 might and everything, the damage from an attack like lupicus would still make insane amount of damage.
I’m sure they could fudge some numbers to make it a low enough coefficient yes?
That’s actually what I meant, give reflected attack a low coefficient
If you assume lupi has 10k power then his skill coefficients are actually quite similar to our weapon skills. The main reason for reflects being so out of hand is because they scale off source power value and not mine. Make reflects scale with my power and they will be brought back to acceptable levels, even if you still would have uncapped reflect count and attempt bombing lupi.
OP’s post is uncomfortably similar to those posts that think stacking or skipping mobs is cheating/cheesy.
But in the end — just as with those posts — I do agree people should respect the conditions stated in a person’s LFG. Of course, there’s no such thing as party leader anymore so realistically, mob rules: you’re lucky they didn’t kick you!
How does one use stun (and paralyzation sigil) to prevent the reflect?
I haven’t tested it much myself, but it seems that paralyzation sigil allows you to stun/interrupt enemies that are normally completely immune to CC. Someone with more knowledge on the topic replying would be great
OP’s post is uncomfortably similar to those posts that think stacking or skipping mobs is cheating/cheesy.
But in the end — just as with those posts — I do agree people should respect the conditions stated in a person’s LFG. Of course, there’s no such thing as party leader anymore so realistically, mob rules: you’re lucky they didn’t kick you!
If you assume lupi has 10k power then his skill coefficients are actually quite similar to our weapon skills. The main reason for reflects being so out of hand is because they scale off source power value and not mine. Make reflects scale with my power and they will be brought back to acceptable levels, even if you still would have uncapped reflect count and attempt bombing lupi.
Just curious, why would you assume that Lupi has extremely high power such as 10k as opposed to normal power levels and simply extremely high damage coefficients? Regardless I disagree with this method as it can make reflects extremely inconsistent damage wise if some mobs have high coefficients with low power and others have the opposite.
14 Dungeon paths soloed
Lupi solos on 9/9 professions
Wost Engi NA
Just curious, why would you assume that Lupi has extremely high power such as 10k as opposed to normal power levels and simply extremely high damage coefficients?
Mostly logic and common sense, with some math.
Knowing the dmg formula, reflect formula, my own stats, and Lupi’s armor, and then recording how hard frenzied blast hit about 50 times from my reflects, the only unknown variables left in the final formula were lupi’s power, frenzied blast coefficient, and his weapon strength. Then, knowing that majority of our weapon coefficients are round (ie 0.600 / 1.925 / 2.000 / 0.550 / 0.125 / 3.000 / etc) and are usually less than 3.000 I assumed frenzied blast coefficient must follow similar pattern. Then, seeing as pretty much all lupi’s attacks hit extremely hard and knowing how anet loves to copy-paste skills throughout the game it made sense to assume that lupi’s skill coefficients are low like every other coefficient and it’s the power that is inflated. After plugging in various coefficients I came across a combo that was awfully convenient – 1.850 for skill coefficient, 10,000 for power, and 1,000 for weapon strength (equal to most ascended weapons).
Having such round numbers made my math very easy in the long run. Of course, you can assume anything you want as long as the assumed multipliers actually fit the equation.
How many of you hate this crap as much as I do? I can’t stand it.
I never put any LFG requirements whenever I post anymore other than “no 1-shotting lupicus.” I still have to frequently remind people not to do it, and often times I’m responded with confusion.
Wtf? You don’t want to totally cheese the boss?
In my opinion it’s just as bad to do it as it is to skip Lupicus. People who do it don’t deserve the daily. People who do it on a regular basis are more than likely too terrible to kill him without it.
Ugh, I am sick of being paranoid and frantically trying to keep him immobilised for phase 1 just in case somebody pushes him to the wall and ignores what my LFG said. >_>
And I am disappointed that GWSCR validated this as a legitimate tactic, like… wtf.
It’s so obviously unintended to be able to instantly kill him when phase 2 begins. I don’t have a problem with reflects themselves, but I disagree with anybody that says it’s not exploiting. I get it, “clever use of game mechanics” and loopholes with the rules, but I don’t agree with it being a legitimate tactic. By my own personal definition of what cheating is, this definitely is a good example of it.
Feel the need to rant because even though I posted an LFG saying not to do it, some kittenlord guardian pug still blew him up the second phase 2 started. I am also apparently unethical for trying to kick him for it, and nobody else seconded my vote despite having gone out of my way to prevent it from happening. Lupi wasn’t aggroed on me, so I couldn’t prevent him from being pushed to the wall.
Rage. Quit.
/rant
I’m surprised that GWSCR calls at legit tactic when Snowcrash (anet dev) Has said that it’s an exploit when I showed him brazil’s vid of it :/ Like seriously wtf? It has been what a month+ and they still haven’t fixed it? I know it’s not an easy fix but come on! Pugs ruin everything. Hell I run zerker ele in arah to make sure I can keep lupi off wall.
By the way it’s been wayyyy longer than a month. This has been possible to do since Arah first came out it’s just that it wasn’t discovered until sometime late this summer.
How many of you hate this crap as much as I do? I can’t stand it.
I never put any LFG requirements whenever I post anymore other than “no 1-shotting lupicus.” I still have to frequently remind people not to do it, and often times I’m responded with confusion.
Wtf? You don’t want to totally cheese the boss?
In my opinion it’s just as bad to do it as it is to skip Lupicus. People who do it don’t deserve the daily. People who do it on a regular basis are more than likely too terrible to kill him without it.
Ugh, I am sick of being paranoid and frantically trying to keep him immobilised for phase 1 just in case somebody pushes him to the wall and ignores what my LFG said. >_>
And I am disappointed that GWSCR validated this as a legitimate tactic, like… wtf.
It’s so obviously unintended to be able to instantly kill him when phase 2 begins. I don’t have a problem with reflects themselves, but I disagree with anybody that says it’s not exploiting. I get it, “clever use of game mechanics” and loopholes with the rules, but I don’t agree with it being a legitimate tactic. By my own personal definition of what cheating is, this definitely is a good example of it.
Feel the need to rant because even though I posted an LFG saying not to do it, some kittenlord guardian pug still blew him up the second phase 2 started. I am also apparently unethical for trying to kick him for it, and nobody else seconded my vote despite having gone out of my way to prevent it from happening. Lupi wasn’t aggroed on me, so I couldn’t prevent him from being pushed to the wall.
Rage. Quit.
/rant
I’m surprised that GWSCR calls at legit tactic when Snowcrash (anet dev) Has said that it’s an exploit when I showed him brazil’s vid of it :/ Like seriously wtf? It has been what a month+ and they still haven’t fixed it? I know it’s not an easy fix but come on! Pugs ruin everything. Hell I run zerker ele in arah to make sure I can keep lupi off wall.
Its not the first time an anet employee has been ignorant of what constitutes an exploit. Some of them are just as casual and stubborn as the ones we do noble battles against every day on these harsh forums.
oo I noticed lupi had defiant stacks once when I accidentally headshot with my pistol with the sigil lol but I didnt know lupi could be interrupted. You could only do this the first time or does it work even after stripping defiance?
Actually i find the 1 shotting mechanic more fun. The wall trick just help put the reflect on lupi face, aka, where the source of the damage is going. I see there the whole point of having reflect on the game, minus the quantity of damage.
Back on topic, i generally ask how they wanna do and i dont mind the way, as long its meleeing.
I don’t think this need a solution, but if it were to be one reducing the quantity of AOE circles would prolly still damage him, the point of using good reflects, but not enought to skips phases or 1 shot.
I just don’t want they to “Malrona” his kitten up.
Oh my GOD. Genius. This is absolutely PERFECT!
Hey, why don’t we completely remove reflects and absorptions from the game? I mean, it’s not like 2 (1 in particular) classes heavily rely on them. It’d only require an overhaul!
Oh my GOD. Genius. This is absolutely PERFECT!
Hey, why don’t we exercise hyperbole in response to everything? I mean, it’s not like removing reflects from one particular boss fight completely removes them from the game. We could always save dev’ time and give the boss a complete overhaul!
But seriously, the GL fight would be a lot more dynamic if you didn’t burst through entire phases with reflects. Spin it however you want, but I don’t think nerfing reflects across the entire game is the way to go. Just change one encounter and voillah.
[VZ] Valor Zeal – Stormbluff Isle – Looking for steady, casual-friendly NA raiders!
Oh my GOD. Genius. This is absolutely PERFECT!
Hey, why don’t we completely remove reflects and absorptions from the game? I mean, it’s not like 2 (1 in particular) classes heavily rely on them. It’d only require an overhaul!
Oh my GOD. Genius. This is absolutely PERFECT!
Hey, why don’t we exercise hyperbole in response to everything? I mean, it’s not like removing reflects from one particular boss fight completely removes them from the game. We could always save dev’ time and give the boss a complete overhaul!
But seriously, the GL fight would be a lot more dynamic if you didn’t burst through entire phases with reflects. Spin it however you want, but I don’t think nerfing reflects across the entire game is the way to go. Just change one encounter and voillah.
I’m pretty sure deSade thought you were being sarcastic when you said that, hence the also jokingly sarcastic reaction Suggesting that they remove reflects from Lupi has been a running gag since this technique became public.
Doing so would be awful, because when ArenaNet makes projectiles unreflectable, they also make them unblockable, meaning things like warrior offhand sword, guardian focus shield, etc won’t work, either — just like Malrona.
Though now I’m curious whether every class would have enough evades to get through Lupi without using block skills. Anyone want to make a video series?
—
Though now I’m curious whether every class would have enough evades to get through Lupi without using block skills. Anyone want to make a video series?
Actually i find the 1 shotting mechanic more fun. The wall trick just help put the reflect on lupi face, aka, where the source of the damage is going. I see there the whole point of having reflect on the game, minus the quantity of damage. .
So it’s more fun to do the least threatening phase, then just skip the other two by the press of a single keybind? I disagree. Killing Lupicus the second he does that AoE has always been possible out in the open too, but only with a very coordinated + well-equipped group unloading all of their DPS under the feedback provided by a mesmer and it requires very good RNG too. There’s a distinct difference between this and what the topic of this thread is. Either way, I don’t find either scenario any more fun than fighting him traditionally.
Reflection is intended to be used both as an offensive and defensive utility in combat, this is obvious. Being able to kill a boss instantly the second it performs a particular attack in phase 2 is obviously sketchy and unintended. Preventing this from happening wouldn’t remove the whole point of having reflect in the game, lol.
Well, only using virtue passive and no shelter/focus 5/ retreat/wor would already be quite impressive.
edit cause flood control:
Miku, I feel like coordinated reflects like you see in organised groups where a non targeted wor still oneshot lupi requires coordination. The thing is, now, every pug can do it. Reflects used with proper vuln/fury/ lh should still have devastating effects imo. What’s wrong is a random ah pug getting confident about his skill because he managed to put a wall on another wall.
BTW: I found the wall trick a while ago, iirc it was after the removal of the spiders p2 wp, but it was probably there before.
If you’re on EU and need help to get into dungeons, pm me.
Suggesting that they remove reflects from Lupi has been a running gag since this technique became public.