Guild Wars 2

Bug begone!

doddbox.8153:

Lord Kuru.3685:

spoj.9672:

So can anyone explain to me the logic behind anets decision with an actual reason that makes sense? Other than they cant work out how to split 10 man buffing from the rest of the game (probably the real reason).

10 man buffs means Anet’s servers must do more computations per second than it does now. This costs money. That’s the reason.

In an instance with only 10 players inside I’m pretty kitten sure that won’t be a problem, nor overly difficult to do

From how Anet responded, it seems they either can’t or are very unwilling to make the change so that it’s exclusive to raids.

I can believe it’s “can’t” because they appear to have some really poor programming practices, so making the change might be a lot harder than it should be.

thrag.9740:

I guess we can only truly comment once we get to try it, but at face value this seems pretty disappointing.

PopeUrban.2578:

I’m waiting for the balance patch really.

Phalanx warrior as a required buff isn’t a justification to make phalanx buff more people. It’s a justification to nerf phalanx because it is deemed a “required” buff in comparison to all other avaliable buffs.

I actually think it kind of is. We can either bring 2 ps wars to get the whole party its might, or we can have one, and let that other slot be taken by a different class. Unlike staff eles, warriors don’t stack with one another.

You can nerf ps war if you want, but then groups will swap ps war for a scepter hammer ele I’d imagine. Removing warrior and replacing it with even more eles seems lame.

On a side note, because everyone keeps complaining about ps war on these forums, does anyone have the average might generation for scepter hammer ele when we assume there is always a fire field?

We gotta nerf PS, as should persisting flames.

But honestly that won’t replace warriors, because banners cannot be replaced. It’s 170 to every relevant stat plus an extra 150 power. It’s immense. It also kinda helps that warrior has the best group rez utility since the pvp pondscum managed to get spirit of nature nerfed into obsolescence.

If someone could point me towards a video of where the original ArenaNet comment was made, so I can get an idea of the context, that’d be great.

It occurred to me today while mulling this over that, aside from the balancing issues, ArenaNet probably doesn’t want the “bring one of everything” meta that could be a potential result of allowing 10-player buffs.

When they said that would be limiting, it’s also about how it would limit the number of solutions when solving the raid.

@thrag, scepter hammer ele.

Tierce.5370:

If someone could point me towards a video of where the original ArenaNet comment was made, so I can get an idea of the context, that’d be great.

It occurred to me today while mulling this over that, aside from the balancing issues, ArenaNet probably doesn’t want the “bring one of everything” meta that could be a potential result of allowing 10-player buffs.

When they said that would be limiting, it’s also about how it would limit the number of solutions when solving the raid.

@thrag, scepter hammer ele.

But there’s no solving a raid. People will find the optimal setup and the expectation will be to run that setup, just like the past three years of “READ: ZERKER WAR/ELE/ELE/THIEF/GUARD ONLY!”

In the scenario they have, it will be WAR/WAR/CHRONO/CHRONO/RANGER/RANGER/REVENANT/REVENANT/ELE/ELE.

Guardian MIGHT replace either Revenant or Ranger, but no the others whose group buffs are so essential.

That leaves thief, engineer, and necromancer out. Guardian as well if you take revenants or vice versa.

In my desired scenario (10 man buffs), you got WARRIOR/ELE/CHRONO/RANGER/GUARDIAN/REV/REAPER/SCRAPPER/DAREDEVIL/1 FREE SLOT.

No class is left out, and you get a choice of extra for flexibility.

Maybe the character limit for lfg ads will be too short to type that all out

Lord Kuru.3685:

This. Calling in “top” players for help could really make a difference — particularly since they’ve shown they have very little understanding of their own game and how it’s played .(This is true for all game modes: PvE, PvP, WvW).

This is why I exist. This is why there are four types of forum specialists, one for each game mode and then me. I spend an inordinate amount of time collating forum and reddit feedback on these things from all of the people you want to get involved and send it to the raid and balance developers directly.

The single best thing you can do to get your and other top-PvE players’ feedback heard is to make topics and posts about your thoughts. These get used in the form of ammunition to make solid changes.

Note: Sometimes they don’t listen to player feedback regardless because they think certain changes are against the better health of the game. I can only provide community suggestions to ANet, I cannot guarantee change.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Lord Kuru.3685:

This. Calling in “top” players for help could really make a difference — particularly since they’ve shown they have very little understanding of their own game and how it’s played .(This is true for all game modes: PvE, PvP, WvW).

This is why I exist. This is why there are four types of forum specialists, one for each game mode and then me. I spend an inordinate amount of time collating forum and reddit feedback on these things from all of the people you want to get involved and send it to the raid and balance developers directly.

The single best thing you can do to get your and other top-PvE players’ feedback heard is to make topics and posts about your thoughts. These get used in the form of ammunition to make solid changes.

Note: Sometimes they don’t listen to player feedback regardless because they think certain changes are against the better health of the game. I can only provide community suggestions to ANet, I cannot guarantee change.

Can you then please have a lock at this topic, Rising Dusk?
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/Sug-Raid-Reward-after-first-completion/first#post5539192

Zenith.7301:

In my desired scenario (10 man buffs), you got WARRIOR/ELE/CHRONO/RANGER/GUARDIAN/REV/REAPER/SCRAPPER/DAREDEVIL/1 FREE SLOT.

No class is left out, and you get a choice of extra for flexibility.

What if:
(1) the 10 players scraped out of your smallish guild don’t include a scrapper
(2) you have three reapers with Masteries unlocked who want to play
(3) the guardian disconnects in the midst of the run and all you can get is another mesmer, and
(4) it turns out that stacking 10 guardians is, with 10-player buffs, the best, most efficient way to complete the raid?

Then you don’t have an optimal party. Is that a problem? What do you do now, when you want to do fractals but you don’t have a guard/2nd ele/whatever?

What will you do in raids if you don’t have a 2nd Warrior, which is very likely to be optimal if they don’t change buffs to affect 10 party members.

Players who care about being optimal will still do so and pick up different professions to achieve that, players who don’t will keep not giving a kitten about it

Tierce.5370:

(2) you have three reapers with Masteries unlocked who want to play

Masteries are account-wide and you’d be far better off playing with people who have the common courtesy to re-roll, just saying.

Butbutbut necros have better dps than warrior. :C

While, it’s right that it suck that buffing is limited to 5 man, it’s not illogical and make things pretty balanced outside of 5 Man content atm.

Nobody here is a dreamer or an utopist, there will alway be an optimal combination of professions for any in game content. Now, yes, all profession ain’t equal when it come to what they do in a party (Main example is that necromancer suck at buffing). Personnally I’ve alway ask for more equality between the different profession but it doesn’t happen (For example I’ve always said that forceful greatsword need an ICD, never happened in 3 years).

Without equality between all professions there will always be a meta because a meta take only the guy that are the best at doing the job and work well with everyone.

The Meta will involve 2 5 man party in the end. You will need :

- 1 profession per party to assume offensive support : Warrior will still be the best at that but the Herald can also do a pretty good job. Obviously an ele can do the job as well (since it was the ele job before Phalanx strenght)

- 1 profession per party to assume defensive support : Guardian most likely since they are the best at aegis/block/return.

- 1 profession per party at healing support : Guard and ele reduce damage with prot and heal decently. Maybe you can try with a Druid at this spot but I got a feeling that they won’t become “meta” due to a lack of versatility.

- 1 profession for utility support : here you can expect mesmer for a lot of things and maybe thieves/Engineer for skipping stuff.

- Last place will be for a DPS. Obviously, the meta will ponder between the potential candidate about who give the most to the party which mean that there is a need for a minimum of versatility to be brought in this spot (Obviously, someone who have great access to blast finisher will be taken before someone who only DPS).

Now, Every profession have good access to soft and Hard CC without losing anything of their “role”. The only difference is the natural resilience to damage but, let’s be honest, they won’t design raid in a way that it put some profession at a disadvantage because they have a smaller health pool.

They already reiterated that you wont’ need a specific teamcomp. If you don’t need a specific teamcomp with strict gear, it means the content isn’t tuned to be hard. Period.

deSade.9437:

They already reiterated that you wont’ need a specific teamcomp. If you don’t need a specific teamcomp with strict gear, it means the content isn’t tuned to be hard. Period.

Basically this. At this point I am expecting something at the level of difficulty of Triple Trouble Wurm, which is to say you can bring basically any class you want and you’ll have to know the encounters well, but otherwise you can succeed with almost any team composition and trait loadout so long as certain key mechanics are covered.

Zenith.7301:

I don’t understand how they think this is a good idea.

1 PSEA warrior and persisting flames ele per group. 1 frost spirit/spotter ranger per group. 1 chronomancer per group for alacrity/quickness sharing.

That’s 2 spots left, for which Herald/Reaper/Scrapper/Daredevil are competing.

Herald brings the group ferocity buff and 50% extra boon duration for even longer quickness uptime from the chrono.

So 2 heralds for those 2 last spots on each group.

Reaper, Scrapper, Daredevil are out.

It’s just an unbelievably dumb decision.

If they made it 10-man wide for raids, ALL professions could be included without missing out on group buffs.

well…who said that the 2 rading groups HAVE to be 2 full optimized damage wise groups? there might be 1 control/support group and 1 with full single target dps self relient DPS for many reasons. 10 man content is extremely different from 5 man and can have endless combinations and variation in group composition. this would require more planning since you cant just have a phalanx warrior to might em all and done.
I think is the BEST thing.

Gaaroth.2567:

well…who said that the 2 rading groups HAVE to be 2 full optimized damage wise groups?

Because there are enrage timers on the bosses, which means that high DPS will be critical to success. Everyone should and will bring just enough CC to ensure that breakbars are broken, and just enough survivability to ensure that they won’t die. If more support or CC is needed, then things like a Hammer Guardian may come into play in each party. Really, though, both parties are going to need to be doing huge damage during burn phases or you’re just not going to win.

Tierce.5370:

Zenith.7301:

(4) it turns out that stacking 10 guardians is, with 10-player buffs, the best, most efficient way to complete the raid?

I remember guardians with mace/symbol/feel my wrath just after 23rd june patch. there a brief moment of 5 guardians meta…would be hilarious to see a 10 guardians meta in raids :_D

Rising Dusk.2408:

Gaaroth.2567:

well…who said that the 2 rading groups HAVE to be 2 full optimized damage wise groups?

Because there are enrage timers on the bosses, which means that high DPS will be critical to success. Everyone should and will bring just enough CC to ensure that breakbars are broken, and just enough survivability to ensure that they won’t die. If more support or CC is needed, then things like a Hammer Guardian may come into play in each party. Really, though, both parties are going to need to be doing huge damage during burn phases or you’re just not going to win.

imho this depends on how they build them…what if there are encounters with loads of adds where you need a group dedicated JUST to mass cc stuff? (thus needing to share between them proper buffs) and the other group is left to do the full DPS stuff without worring of other things? 2 balanced group wouldn’t cut it, not enough DPS, not enough CC…i’m really seeing specialized groups in raid content, thus alloying many different gameplay/classes and getting outside of the full support/balance idea of team we have now.
At least this is my hope and the direction this should go. otherwise…all is vain

Gaaroth.2567:

Rising Dusk.2408:

Gaaroth.2567:

well…who said that the 2 rading groups HAVE to be 2 full optimized damage wise groups?

Because there are enrage timers on the bosses, which means that high DPS will be critical to success. Everyone should and will bring just enough CC to ensure that breakbars are broken, and just enough survivability to ensure that they won’t die. If more support or CC is needed, then things like a Hammer Guardian may come into play in each party. Really, though, both parties are going to need to be doing huge damage during burn phases or you’re just not going to win.

imho this depends on how they build them…what if there are encounters with loads of adds where you need a group dedicated JUST to mass cc stuff? (thus needing to share between them proper buffs) and the other group is left to do the full DPS stuff without worring of other things? 2 balanced group wouldn’t cut it, not enough DPS, not enough CC…i’m really seeing specialized groups in raid content, thus alloying many different gameplay/classes and getting outside of the full support/balance idea of team we have now.
At least this is my hope and the direction this should go. otherwise…all is vain

Well, you know, the most effective and versatile profession will prevail. Even if you got to adjust each build for each boss/encounter. In the end what will make the difference is whether the profession add something valuable whatever build it has to run… or not.

Gaaroth.2567:

imho this depends on how they build them…what if there are encounters with loads of adds where you need a group dedicated JUST to mass cc stuff? (thus needing to share between them proper buffs) and the other group is left to do the full DPS stuff without worring of other things? 2 balanced group wouldn’t cut it, not enough DPS, not enough CC…i’m really seeing specialized groups in raid content, thus alloying many different gameplay/classes and getting outside of the full support/balance idea of team we have now.
At least this is my hope and the direction this should go. otherwise…all is vain

It’s entirely possible that there will be times where it makes sense to party people up based on their role, particularly if their role involves them being split up from the main group.

I wouldn’t expect a clean 5 and 5 split in that case, though. I would expect maybe 3 heavy CC people working together to keep the area clean and the other 7 to handle the boss itself. These heavy CCers might also stack stability to avoid being CC’d themselves, or something like that. Remember that we’re not playing raids with parties in the traditional sense; we’re using the raid commander UI where you can divide groups up as needed. You’re going to need huge DPS no matter what, and the fewer players you need to sacrifice to support/utility/CC roles the better chances you’ll win.