Guild Wars 2

I got multiple accounts, five in fact, and if bored I often do a second set of dungeon runs on my second geared out account. Said account only does dungeon runs so it has fairly low AP, which frequently gets me locked out of teams or kicked.

I show up at my 16k AP account and people treat me like a rock star and don’t blame me for anything regardless of how bad I play that day. And I never ever experience getting kicked.

I show up at my 1,5k AP account and I get kicked for mistakes other people make and people don’t ever listen to what I have to say in dungeons. If I tell someone to get in to the stacking spot properly so they don’t kill the entire team, they tell me to kitten off and that I’m a noob. If I tell people the same thing on my main account, they go “OK” and do as I say instantly with no complaints because “Someone with that much AP obviously has a clue right.”.

The difference between running dungeons on a 16k and a 1,5k AP account is night and day, even though I’m playing the exact same class with the exact same gear. And it’s the exact same player behind the wheels.

AP shouldn’t be visible to anyone ingame outside of Guild.

Edit:
After reading a lot of these replies and giving it some thought it’s pretty clear that what’s really needed isn’t to hide AP but rather implement a better system to verify that a character has the correct build and gear for efficient dungeon runs. And while this would definitely lead to a different kind of discrimination I think discrimination based on merit (or lack of it) beats being discriminated against for arbitrary and completely irrelevant reasons.

We just need a proper way to show experience.

Having the ability to check other people’s builds would be so nice.

+1 for gear/trait/skillbar check

Silferas.3841:

Having the ability to check other people’s builds would be so nice.

Yeah, but being able to check out build and gear could lead to discrimination…. (That’s the argument they’re using right?)

Maybe name your account “dontkickitsaltaccount.2323” xD

but but but my e//peen :-(

:-(

What’s the point of achievements if we can’t see at least the number? In any case, if we couldn’t see the numbers anymore, these groups will just start demanding you show your highest achievement title, our wear your achievement armor.

Perhaps stop joining groups that say “speedrun experienced 80 bezerk only”?

Well the correct solution is: don’t have alt accounts, Anet does not deserve the money anyway

(Yes I am writing this on my third alt account)

It could be worse.

“Show Dungeoneer-Title or kick.”

See?

Anyways, i agree with the above posters…“tru pro pugs” would just find another arbitrary thing to judge a player’s experience in dungeons, which has not relation or indication to actual experience.

wauwi.9162:

It could be worse.

“Show Dungeoneer-Title or kick.”

See?

Anyways, i agree with the above posters…“tru pro pugs” would just find another arbitrary thing to judge a player’s experience in dungeons, which has not relation or indication to actual experience.

As far as I’m concerned “Show Dungeoneer Title” would be a huge improvement over the completely arbitrary AP requirements that go around. A Dungeoneer title is something anyone can obtain in a day or two of work, 5-10-15k AP is not.

Not to mention how it’s “slightly relevant” rather then “completely and utterly irrelevant”.

Dungeoneer is the title requiring all weapon and skin unlocks – takes about a month if running every path In pve daily?

It is likely by that point they may have some experience of the basics mechanics – I suspect that there are not that many with dungeoneer titles right now than high AP.

You can get the dungeoneer title just from pvp …

I dont agree. I want everyone to see my almost 27k AP. If anything achievement points should become more visible. Maybe put them on nameplate, too.

Yes – they could get it from pvp … It would certainly take quite a while.
Personally I have found good PvP players are more likely to get into Teamspeak and are more willing to change the build they are running to support the team.

Could be a good thing – may be worth trying it to see how many players join the group and if the quality improves.

Malediktus.3740:

I dont agree. I want everyone to see my almost 27k AP. If anything achievement points should become more visible. Maybe put them on nameplate, too.

You want everyone to see you’re an achievement farmer? It’s not impressive. I’m happy that the mastery system will show mastery points instead of lvl

TPMN.1483:

Could be a good thing – may be worth trying it to see how many players join the group and if the quality improves.

You realize, that i was joking about the dungeoneer title?
You would never be able, to fill a group with dungeoneers only, because everyone who has that title, which are probably just a handful of players anyway, either doesn’t do dungeons or starts laughing and crying at the same time, when asked “hey, wanna do a dungeon?”.

wauwi.9162:

TPMN.1483:

Could be a good thing – may be worth trying it to see how many players join the group and if the quality improves.

You realize, that i was joking about the dungeoneer title?
You would never be able, to fill a group with dungeoneers only, because everyone who has that title, which are probably just a handful of players anyway, either doesn’t do dungeons or starts laughing and crying at the same time, when asked “hey, wanna do a dungeon?”.

Just misread Thought you meant Dungeon Master, which is easily obtainable to anyone. There’s always going to be some kind of arbitrary requirement though, I agree with that but something actually relevant to Dungeons would be a very nice improvement.

Sublimatio.6981:

Malediktus.3740:

I dont agree. I want everyone to see my almost 27k AP. If anything achievement points should become more visible. Maybe put them on nameplate, too.

You want everyone to see you’re an achievement farmer? It’s not impressive. I’m happy that the mastery system will show mastery points instead of lvl

Achievement farmers will most likely have an edge on mastery points, too. They said a lot of achievements (both old and new ones) give mastery points.

Oh – I have dungeoneer … A few of my guildies are working towards it (I think only two have it in total) and generally are actually reasonably okay at running multiple classes.

It would actually be a really good experiment IMO.
All for the kittenkat and giggles.

I thought you was being serious as often we’ll start three man and then see who joins us (meeting the LFG requiremnts or kick) as often it takes us about the same time 3 man or 5 man.

Silver January.4673:

[…]something actually relevant to Dungeons would be a very nice improvement.

It’s just kind of impossible to implement a proper filter, without making things even worse, as they are now.

I often say “Don’t PUG”. (applies to any online game ever)
But i say this with completely hypocrisy, cuz’ i do it all the time. I have trouble finding a guild, suiting my needs, for several reasons, including my lack of a mic and very inconsistent activity.

I just leave a dungeon group when i think, that drama’s getting too big and i’m feeling like i’m in a bad reality show with overblown conflicts.

I had the smoothest dungeon runs with friendly players, including first timers and players, just a bit over the level requirement, so from my experience, leaving the PUG and looking for a new one is even more efficient, than starting a “My meta is correct, your meta is wrong” kind of fight.

TPMN.1483:

Oh – I have dungeoneer …

And you aren’t sick of dungeons yet? Impressive, to say the least.

I dont know anyone who has the dungeoneer title. But i know plenty of people with hundreds of repeated hobby dungeon. Dungeoneer is a PvP title. Very few dungeon runners have it at this point. And very few think its worth grinding for.

The only collection i and many others got completed instantly was arah. And the only other one i have completed is CM because i grinded it for the assassin trinket.

I forgot to mention.. I met anet person the other week who we introduced to running zerker dungeons (approx 24K AP) some of the easy paths to start with and a TA Aether path.

They had not run zerker Metas before – so I do not view AP as a very good class filter at all. Not sure if they were fully geared up – but we gave them some potions, build and food and off we went – died a bit more than usual as they were new to the way we run things (non-pug way). They certainly was getting the hang of it for sure – by the second outing with them they had improved significantly

I would love to see the number of AP Points without daily/monthly achievements (eg just the perm AP) this would be a much better indication to me of how much of the game they have experienced rather than farming out pre-nerf to the daily/monthly changes.

I had no interest in farming these daily/monthly APs out – if I did my AP of 19.7K would have been ~28K AP+ by now.

Funny thing is – it’s often possible to spot really bad builds when people enter dungeons (eg wrong signets for example- for pve exploration) and I will often ask if they could change to a meta dungeon build. Experienced dungeon runners who know multiple classes will be able to do some form of build checks as people run and get an idea if they know how to play during a path. It’s not perfect but having a build check would be nice – to at least ensure team composition works well for a run.

Team composition > individual builds.
Funny thing is I was in a fotm 50 and noticed out might stacks were low -asked s few people to swap some builds around and a couple of changes of traits later on a couple of toons we was wrecking everything in sight like we should have been from the start and the team was functioning really well.
Build checks would allow us to optimise a team to work together better !
I fully support this idea – also allowing people to load up a build from chat and give it a go – right now it’s really clunky.

There will always be people who kick instantly if you don’t have the right build – but having a load up for builds would be great to get a team working better together.

I fully admit – I’m still learning certain classes better and improving as time goes on.

spoj.9672:

I dont know anyone who has the dungeoneer title. But i know plenty of people with hundreds of repeated hobby dungeon. Dungeoneer is a PvP title. Very few dungeon runners have it at this point. And very few think its worth grinding for.

I’m crazy. I got it. I got a 2g exotic out of the kitten ed RNG reward box too.

Same here 2g exotic lol. Sad life RNG hates us.

I got a 1.5g exotic out of mine

I run with a couple other people who have it, and know at least one more who is pretty close to finishing it.

For all the AP hoarders out there: achievement points only mean you have farmed achievement points. It does not make you a good player, nor does it show any skill related to any game mode. It’s also not prestigious because you can still suck with 26k APs and you can be a great player with 2k.

Never been kicked and only 5k AP.

Rising Dusk.2408:

spoj.9672:

I dont know anyone who has the dungeoneer title. But i know plenty of people with hundreds of repeated hobby dungeon. Dungeoneer is a PvP title. Very few dungeon runners have it at this point. And very few think its worth grinding for.

I’m crazy. I got it. I got a 2g exotic out of the kitten ed RNG reward box too.

I got mine yesterday after first contacting support to make sure the RNG reward is not a bug (apparently it’s working as intended). I got a 3g exotic from it… yay…

Also, as others pointed out in this thread, Dungeoneer is more a PvP title (I got ~60-70% of it through PvP) so I don’t think it would be highly relevant for dungeon experience.

Now, if only there were a way for us to see the builds and gear the other party members are running…

SkyFallsInThunder.8257:

Rising Dusk.2408:

spoj.9672:

I dont know anyone who has the dungeoneer title. But i know plenty of people with hundreds of repeated hobby dungeon. Dungeoneer is a PvP title. Very few dungeon runners have it at this point. And very few think its worth grinding for.

I’m crazy. I got it. I got a 2g exotic out of the kitten ed RNG reward box too.

I got mine yesterday after first contacting support to make sure the RNG reward is not a bug (apparently it’s working as intended). I got a 3g exotic from it… yay…

Also, as others pointed out in this thread, Dungeoneer is more a PvP title (I got ~60-70% of it through PvP) so I don’t think it would be highly relevant for dungeon experience.

Now, if only there were a way for us to see the builds and gear the other party members are running…

Dungeoneer is easily a PvE title as well. I almost had it finished before collections even came out and I was around rank 20 at the time. I’m still at the same point because I have barely done any dungeons in 6 months but honestly if I went back to my old playstyle & time I would be done within 2 weeks of normal playing.

And as for the OP, I disagree. It sucks and I have met people with high AP that were terrible (and vice versa)… but I would rather have it shown personally. It does show experience in the game to at very least a minimum level. That doesn’t mean someone with low AP should be ignored but it’s 99% of the time a good indicator of if the person knows what he’s doing (<3k AP usually means complete newbie and most people >15k AP don’t need their hand held).

When you are the exception to the norm, YOU should make it clear you are experienced (a simple “hey guys running on my alt account btw!”)… or simply keep quiet. Things rarely blow up if you’re quiet in my experience, even if a run is going terrible. It’s as soon as someone starts to complain or order people around that it falls apart.

Kurr.4179:

(<3k AP usually means complete newbie and most people >15k AP don’t need their hand held).

I wouldn’t count on the 2nd part. Most of my guildies have more AP than I do (and I already have above 15k on my main account), and many of them consider themselves dungeon and fractal regulars, but running with them is often more painful (and a lot slower) than your average lfg pug . They do, however, rarely pug, so maybe the high-ap pugs you meet via lfg are just a specific sub-section of the general player base.

The problem with Dungeoneer as an indicator of anything is that Dungeoneer takes too much time to get, regardless of how you get it. Tons of players are incredibly skilled without Dungeoneer, and thus I would argue that a binary mode of determining someone’s skill is ineffective.

That’s why people use AP. I agree with everyone that AP is a poor indicator of skill, but it is intended to be shown off to others much like the map completion star. Hiding it would be bad for the game at large.

The best I can suggest is to find better groups with people who won’t judge you based on AP. I think the best option would be if we could somehow show off our Hobby Dungeon Explorer times repeated… At a minimum that would showcase how many dungeons you’ve completed, and if that number is high enough I’d believe it couldn’t all be bought with gold.

Yesterday I was in an AC run, most ppl had 3k AP and it was one of the better runs, really smooth. This AP stuff really doesn’t say anything. At least when it’s over 1000.

Rising Dusk.2408:

The problem with Dungeoneer as an indicator of anything is that Dungeoneer takes too much time to get, regardless of how you get it. Tons of players are incredibly skilled without Dungeoneer, and thus I would argue that a binary mode of determining someone’s skill is ineffective.

That’s why people use AP. I agree with everyone that AP is a poor indicator of skill, but it is intended to be shown off to others much like the map completion star. Hiding it would be bad for the game at large.

The best I can suggest is to find better groups with people who won’t judge you based on AP. I think the best option would be if we could somehow show off our Hobby Dungeon Explorer times repeated… At a minimum that would showcase how many dungeons you’ve completed, and if that number is high enough I’d believe it couldn’t all be bought with gold.

It would be nice if they just moved the dungeon master title to getting at least 500x(I’m not really sure if this is a reasonable figure for most people though) Hobby Dungeon Explorer.

Low AP is a decent indicator of inexperience, but high AP isn’t always linked to skilled or knowledgeable play. It’s best that we’re able to check it though. If that were removed the number of ‘Ping Gear’ parties would probably increase significantly, much to everyone’s annoyance.

On this note, I’ve always been in favour of the ability to inspect other players’ gear.

There should be a title for running every path of every dungeon 30-50 times (or more). Or one for each dungeon (for example: Catacombs Explorer, House Guest, Master Gardener, Sorrow’s End, Pyre’s Disciple, Honor’s Respite, Subject Omega, Castellan of the Gods). That should be some indicator of speciffic dungeon running experience, since it’s doubtful someone would buy that many runs and actually running the dungeons shoves some experience down your throat even if you hide behind your bear. And party members can just ask for the title to be displayed upon joining.

Hobby guide is not really good since someone who, for example, did hundreds or thousands of cof p1 runs pre and post nerf would seem like a pro.

It wouldn’t be a perfect system since even staff guardians and bearbows and rifle warriors can grind the title, but at least it would somehow solve the experience problem for the dungeon, especially since one would have to run every path in that dungeon the required number of times before being able to display the title.

I still think the gear/traits/skills inspection I mentioned in my post above (and which already exists in the game) would be better, though.

If Pugs aren’t allowed to judge you based on your AP, what else will they judge you on? Seriously, pugs will always find an arbitrary way of telling if you are experienced or not.

Morsus.5106:

If Pugs aren’t allowed to judge you based on your AP, what else will they judge you on? Seriously, pugs will always find an arbitrary way of telling if you are experienced or not.

I will say that I am very happy they judge based on AP instead of based on something like Pristine Fractal Relics.

SkyFallsInThunder.8257:

Now, if only there were a way for us to see the builds and gear the other party members are running…

The second paragraph of this redpost should give this community some raging Alfard-ons

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/community/api/API-CDI-2015/page/2#post4814122

(A bit of context so no one misunderstands — this doesn’t exist yet, but the wonderful API team is working on adding tools that would (among other things) make an opt-in gearcheck possible)

And re: AP points, I mean….seriously. How does harvesting logs in the shiverpeaks every day relate to dungeon performance?

serenke.4806:

achievement points only mean you have farmed achievement points.

Doesn’t mean that either. It just means that you played the game pretty much regularly for a good amount of time.
Like, I never go out of my way to farm ap and I’m in dungeons 90% of the time I spend playing, but I still got to 16k by just completing the LS achievements in a couple of hours – if I felt like it – and dailies. Been playing since day -3.
So yeah, they simply mean you’re supposed to find the dodge button every once in a while.
The OP’s premise is absurd, anyway. Won’t make things better. What would help is adding prest-- doesn’t matter, they’re not gonna add any mission that requires a functioning brain outside the
WE ARE BORG – WE ARE ZERG – RESISTANCE IS FUTILE
content.

Oh, and the gearcheck thingy is ok, but I’d reaaaally like to see saved/loaded build templates before that.

OP: People like you are the reason why I never kick players just because of low AP. When lvl 50 necro with 500 AP joins my “exp fullrun”, of course I will ready my kick button, but I will press it only as soon as I see he clearly intends to complete the dungeon with that char. My friend used to be one of the best dungeoneers I’ve ever seen when he had only 2k AP.

Anyway, what you ask for doesn’t seem like a solution to me. Actually, the way it is now is much better for everyone, even for you. Just think about it. If someone kicks you because he is a noob himself but blames you for not having enough AP, it’s probably better not to be in a party with them.

On the subject of correlation between AP and ability to perform well – there definitely is some. I mean… of course you can find exceptions (20k AP noobs), because some people just mindlessly farm and don’t understand the principles, but statistically speaking, more AP means more ingame time, which usually means more experience and better performance in any/all fields, including dungeons. It’s like if you set the bottom limit to 5k AP, you will get 50% noobs, but if you set it to 10k AP, you will only get 30% because not so many “casuals” make it as high.

We’re getting masteries as a new way to filter people in pickup groups. Isn’t that nice?

Miku Lawrence.6329:

We’re getting masteries as a new way to filter people in pickup groups. Isn’t that nice?

Yes. lfm CoF p1, must have at least 1000 mastery points

Malediktus.3740:

Miku Lawrence.6329:

We’re getting masteries as a new way to filter people in pickup groups. Isn’t that nice?

Yes. lfm CoF p1, must have at least 1000 mastery points

Just the thought of it makes me cringe…

But yeah, as people here point out AP discrimination isn’t actually the real problem, the lack of real criteria to determine whether or not someone is a good player is.

Traits should be visible.
Gear stats should be visible.

*turns and runs away *

J Eberle.9312:

Traits should be visible.
Gear stats should be visible.

*turns and runs away *

They had that in gw1 it was pretty good for pugging.

I miss template pings T_T

Good old [;xx]

“LF2M AC p1. Ping Elegant Leatherworker’s Backpiece on join or kick.”

Almost as irrelevant as AP.

I PUG every day. 6k AP PUGs are clearly better than 4k AP PUGs. It’s really obvious. Are you guys not seeing this? Is it just at my time of day (Euro lunchtime) or something?

I really wish I had 8k instead of 6k. A lot of HotW/CoE/Arah PUGs won’t look at 6k.