Guild Wars 2

There could be a problem with the fact that infusions are tradeable, but I also agree that it would be cool to make it easier to get AR on your alts after you max it out on your main.

Tarasicodissa.7084:

There could be a problem with the fact that infusions are tradeable, but I also agree that it would be cool to make it easier to get AR on your alts after you max it out on your main.

no there wouldn’t be just make infusions easier to get and prices will balance out. Or even better add a tab that only 100 fractal lever chars can open and sell in that cheaper +9’s unique tho so atributed infusion still require the normal ones.

Lonami.2987:

I think you missed my entire point where +1 agony infusions would be used for a luck-like system of accountbound agony progression.

And I think you missed both my points:

• There’s a huge amount of gold already invested in AR, without considering AR+1 infusions.
• There’s a limit to the value of a “luck-like” system of account-bound AR progression, especially considering that luck doesn’t need to be progressed at all, whereas AR is a gate to participation in Tier 4 fractals.

Most of the time, we don’t really know what ANet is thinking one way or another, whether they have considered a ton of options or not. In this case, we actually have a developer telling us that they’ve considered account-wide AR and that they even wish they had considered it from the start. But, having studied the problem, they can’t find a way to make it worth the time required to up-end the entire system.

Again, this isn’t at all as easy as you want it to be.

Anet has made a lot of changes where people were “screwed out of gold” for the betterment of the game. That’s not an argument at all. For example multiple legendary weapons and the wardrobe system, people lost out on many thousands of gold but the game was made better, among plenty of other similar changes.

Don’t understand why they significantly raised the AR requirement to play fractals from 70 to 150 after the expansion. This pretty much goes against GW2 philosophy. We had not stats powercreep on gears. Why introduce such thing on an already overly complicated system.

Exciton.8942:

Don’t understand why they significantly raised the AR requirement to play fractals from 70 to 150 after the expansion. This pretty much goes against GW2 philosophy. We had not stats powercreep on gears. Why introduce such thing on an already overly complicated system.

Well they increased to 150 but everything can use the normal agony infusion, before you had to use 7 infusions with +11/12 agony infusions. So now its 150 but its easier to get to 150, and ascended itens are way easier to have then back there when you needed 70.

So yeah they increased to 150, but made a lot easier to get it, so no reason to complain.

Fluffball.8307:

Anet has made a lot of changes where people were “screwed out of gold” for the betterment of the game. That’s not an argument at all. For example multiple legendary weapons and the wardrobe system, people lost out on many thousands of gold but the game was made better, among plenty of other similar changes.

Of course it’s an argument, Fluffy — I just made it. In this case, we’re talking about everyone who has outfitted 2+ characters in AR150 losing half their investment. That didn’t happen with legendaries and the wardrobe, since (a) relatively few people had any legendaries and (b) even fewer made two identical ones.

And of course you’re correct that it’s not a sufficient argument, as there are other important considerations.

The question is: is it worth all the trouble to do this? Would the game mode be so much improved after re-inventing this particular wheel? Do you really think ANet can throw out yet another reward/gearing system and start from scratch, without risking the loyalty of veterans? Do you think ANet can handle the backlash of current fractal frequenters who would almost certainly feel that their time/investment was wasted?

No one is arguing about whether account-wide AR is ultimately better (it probably would have been a really good mastery track, without the need for consumables). The question is: is it worth the trouble to switch now, at this late date?

And for that, any single, significant obstacle might be sufficient to answer that with “no, it wouldn’t.”

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

The question is: is it worth the trouble to switch now, at this late date?

Absolutely. Fractals are insanely gated for players, so sooner or later there aren’t going to be anyone running them. As vets die off (from the game), not many new players and vets that haven’t gotten into fractals are going to want to get into such a convoluted system, especially when an even more endgame activity is exponentially easier to get into (raids).

For that matter every other end game activity is straight forward to get into, fractals are the odd man out, that after thousand of hours and the fractal frequenter achievement I still don’t even understand what the heck is going on in them.

Raids, WvW, PvP, open world metas… what else do people? You can just jump right in. Fractals you have to read the wiki just to figure out how to gear up.

Fluffball.8307:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

The question is: is it worth the trouble to switch now, at this late date?

Absolutely. Fractals are insanely gated for players, so sooner or later there aren’t going to be anyone running them. As vets die off (from the game), not many new players and vets that haven’t gotten into fractals are going to want to get into such a convoluted system, especially when an even more endgame activity is exponentially easier to get into (raids).

For that matter every other end game activity is straight forward to get into, fractals are the odd man out, that after thousand of hours and the fractal frequenter achievement I still don’t even understand what the heck is going on in them.

Raids, WvW, PvP, open world metas… what else do people? You can just jump right in. Fractals you have to read the wiki just to figure out how to gear up.

1. ANet officially disagrees that it’s worth the trouble now.
2. They aren’t insanely gated; they are just gated. The cost of 150 in infusions is about 160 gold (using a bargain config; it’s up to 220g using a ‘convenient’ config).

You can start without agony (or ascended gear) and work your way up, partly earning what you need as you go.

Again, I’m not arguing that this was great design from the get go. Neither am I arguing that the game would be worse off after swapping to account bound AR. I am saying that it seems that it would divert a lot of dev resources and, in my opinion, those resources would be best spent on other things.

Fluffball.8307:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

The question is: is it worth the trouble to switch now, at this late date?

Absolutely. Fractals are insanely gated for players, so sooner or later there aren’t going to be anyone running them. As vets die off (from the game), not many new players and vets that haven’t gotten into fractals are going to want to get into such a convoluted system, especially when an even more endgame activity is exponentially easier to get into (raids).

For that matter every other end game activity is straight forward to get into, fractals are the odd man out, that after thousand of hours and the fractal frequenter achievement I still don’t even understand what the heck is going on in them.

Raids, WvW, PvP, open world metas… what else do people? You can just jump right in. Fractals you have to read the wiki just to figure out how to gear up.

You do not need to read the wiki to figure out how to start. What happened to ppl asking openly on the /m chat in la? Thats why i did for what infusions i should equip where etc. The system is ok i like the aspect of growing and progressing something thats progressively harder the deeper i get into. Could it be more interesting? Yeah i suppose but i like the aspect of building up. I would suggest tho making a system where gearing with ar other chars get easier one you have fully decked out your main.

Also say ill be done lvl my engi in a while i suppose i will get a few exotics and jump into raiding eh? Also how come every person that does wvw i come by and ask for general info tells me “u should get asc armor with wvw stats if you want to get into it”. Oh really?? ^^

Muffin Nook.5923:

The OP sounds like someone who just wants the rewards from the high level fractals without putting in the effort to get the 150 ar so they can do their daily T4.

AR used to be a decent gate to make sure people got familiar with the mechanics, but these days is too easy getting ascended gear and far too easy to get 150ar. So now you have people doing t4 fracs who really don’t know the fractals when you pug them.

I doubt we will see any other kind of system put in place as the development time required could be spent on more important things.

If anet actually removed AR requirements from fractals it would turn T4 fractals into pure frustration for pug groups and there would be a lot of complaints about getting kicked and the whole toxic/elitist type stuff would become more pronounced.

I think reducing asc drops of flat out remove certain types of asc times from lower ranks could fix that.

Example, T1 drops no asc ( u buy the rings from the vendor with currency, infuse atune move on to t2). T2 drops asc weapons (and maybe trinkets and ofc everything from T1) give you enough so you progress to t3. T3 drops on top of all the previous certain armor pieces (head, boots, gloves) again enough to progress to t4. T4 drops everything.

Or simply remove asc drops from all ranks but t4 so crafting is your best option for gear or the vendors (pretty much how it was for me pre hot).

Astralporing.1957:

zealex.9410:

it tends to happen passively while running your dailies you get ar and drops how do you thing i geared all my chars? And i didn’t even payed attention one day i said i want to gear up my guard and had the gear and the ar collecting dust.

It may not be a problem to a veteran that played a lot of fractals before, and doesn’t have many alts. It is extremely annoying to someone that is a more recent player. Or, to someone that has a lot of characters/builds, and likes to test them out.
Personally, i never have enough infusions around. The gold cost is also not so insignificant.

Also, while it may happen passively, it also takes a lot of time. As i said, it’s a grind just for a grind’s sake.

Why would i be a veteran? I have a little over 1000 hours and i got into fractals after hot ( srsly that is building an asc armor and looking into the infusion system). I also have all my character slots filled with lvl 80 chars which i gear to get into fractals so i know how making a new character fractal ready pretty much feels like. The gold cost is insignificant 2 days worth of fractals is usually enough for a +9 infusion. The costs is also ~3g for the + 9 ones and less for the +7 ones. Now dont get me wrong im all in for a system where you can get cheaper infusions once you maxed out you main character but no its not a grind for grind’s sake its a grind for bigger challenge/reward’s sake.

Benjamin Arnold.3457:

We did at one point explore the possibility of account bound AR, but in the end decided on simplifying the agony system (back when we simplified infusions) rather than doing a huge system change.

A larger system change would have taken many resources away from actually building content, and would have caused other problems. Like.. what happens to agony infusions? All those infusions on the market suddenly either become worthless, or need some other reason to be consumed. Additionally, what would the effect be on ascended gear? Would you need ascended gear still? What happens to demand?

Ideally we would have designed the system as account bound in the first place, but that is not the reality we live in.

Unfortunately, at this point I do not see a switch to account bound AR any time in our future

Have you thought maybe insted of t4 droping 3 +1 infusion it could drop instead 2 or 3 +3 infusions this would make gearing alts quite abit faster and less “tedious” for the ppl who find it as such. Or idk maybe have a tab unlock when the char you play with clears all 100 floors which sells +9s and +7s for heavily reduced price. But then again the whole idea is tricky to balance coz we dont want ppl that do the climb for the first time getting it done quicker because that will lead to less exp player at t4, this somehow needs to be an alt gearing method not a main character one.

OnizukaBR.8537:

Exciton.8942:

Don’t understand why they significantly raised the AR requirement to play fractals from 70 to 150 after the expansion. This pretty much goes against GW2 philosophy. We had not stats powercreep on gears. Why introduce such thing on an already overly complicated system.

Well they increased to 150 but everything can use the normal agony infusion, before you had to use 7 infusions with +11/12 agony infusions. So now its 150 but its easier to get to 150, and ascended itens are way easier to have then back there when you needed 70.

So yeah they increased to 150, but made a lot easier to get it, so no reason to complain.

They only made it easier recently when not requiring the +7 basic infusion.

Back when the expansion was launched, it was actually more difficult. They only gave 2 more slots on rings and gave a new +7 type compared to the old +5.

Now they realized the problem and made it easier but they didn’t have to do this to begin with. It is just a correction to the mistake made during expansion launch.

Exciton.8942:

OnizukaBR.8537:

Exciton.8942:

Don’t understand why they significantly raised the AR requirement to play fractals from 70 to 150 after the expansion. This pretty much goes against GW2 philosophy. We had not stats powercreep on gears. Why introduce such thing on an already overly complicated system.

Well they increased to 150 but everything can use the normal agony infusion, before you had to use 7 infusions with +11/12 agony infusions. So now its 150 but its easier to get to 150, and ascended itens are way easier to have then back there when you needed 70.

So yeah they increased to 150, but made a lot easier to get it, so no reason to complain.

They only made it easier recently when not requiring the +7 basic infusion.

Back when the expansion was launched, it was actually more difficult. They only gave 2 more slots on rings and gave a new +7 type compared to the old +5.

Now they realized the problem and made it easier but they didn’t have to do this to begin with. It is just a correction to the mistake made during expansion launch.

Same can be said about a lot of changes made to the game in 2016 that weren’t LWS3 episodes.

ANet bashing aside. I am very grateful for the update we got to agony infusions a few months ago. Its been absolutely amazing, made it much simpler for players (especially those like me who were still confused as to how the older system worked), removed the crafting requirement to get your own higher grade agony infusions, made the system more enjoyable as a whole.

While I wouldn’t mind getting account wide AR, I do understand that its likely to neve rhappen and I am ok with that. I can live with the system in its current state

zealex.9410:

Astralporing.1957:

zealex.9410:

it tends to happen passively while running your dailies you get ar and drops how do you thing i geared all my chars? And i didn’t even payed attention one day i said i want to gear up my guard and had the gear and the ar collecting dust.

It may not be a problem to a veteran that played a lot of fractals before, and doesn’t have many alts. It is extremely annoying to someone that is a more recent player. Or, to someone that has a lot of characters/builds, and likes to test them out.
Personally, i never have enough infusions around. The gold cost is also not so insignificant.

Also, while it may happen passively, it also takes a lot of time. As i said, it’s a grind just for a grind’s sake.

Why would i be a veteran? I have a little over 1000 hours and i got into fractals after hot ( srsly that is building an asc armor and looking into the infusion system). I also have all my character slots filled with lvl 80 chars which i gear to get into fractals so i know how making a new character fractal ready pretty much feels like. The gold cost is insignificant 2 days worth of fractals is usually enough for a +9 infusion. The costs is also ~3g for the + 9 ones and less for the +7 ones. Now dont get me wrong im all in for a system where you can get cheaper infusions once you maxed out you main character but no its not a grind for grind’s sake its a grind for bigger challenge/reward’s sake.

Gearing up a second character is definitely a grind for grind’s sake, as there’s no longer any challenge here, if you already can do t4’s.

Astralporing.1957:

zealex.9410:

Astralporing.1957:

zealex.9410:

it tends to happen passively while running your dailies you get ar and drops how do you thing i geared all my chars? And i didn’t even payed attention one day i said i want to gear up my guard and had the gear and the ar collecting dust.

It may not be a problem to a veteran that played a lot of fractals before, and doesn’t have many alts. It is extremely annoying to someone that is a more recent player. Or, to someone that has a lot of characters/builds, and likes to test them out.
Personally, i never have enough infusions around. The gold cost is also not so insignificant.

Also, while it may happen passively, it also takes a lot of time. As i said, it’s a grind just for a grind’s sake.

Why would i be a veteran? I have a little over 1000 hours and i got into fractals after hot ( srsly that is building an asc armor and looking into the infusion system). I also have all my character slots filled with lvl 80 chars which i gear to get into fractals so i know how making a new character fractal ready pretty much feels like. The gold cost is insignificant 2 days worth of fractals is usually enough for a +9 infusion. The costs is also ~3g for the + 9 ones and less for the +7 ones. Now dont get me wrong im all in for a system where you can get cheaper infusions once you maxed out you main character but no its not a grind for grind’s sake its a grind for bigger challenge/reward’s sake.

Gearing up a second character is definitely a grind for grind’s sake, as there’s no longer any challenge here, if you already can do t4’s.

No not really experience creates challenge. I’ll tell u what i main mesmer, i can say im a decent if not a really good mesmer and iv come to a point where playing mesmer in fractals is just ez. I recently geared a guardian to do fractals and the diff in playstyle creates a big challenge as the 2 classes do not have the same way they deal dmg/avoid dmg/cc and move around during the fight.Because of that i can appreciate the existance of ar coz it smoothened my fractal experience with that character since i did a few t3s and then i jumped into t4.

zealex.9410:

Astralporing.1957:

zealex.9410:

Astralporing.1957:

zealex.9410:

it tends to happen passively while running your dailies you get ar and drops how do you thing i geared all my chars? And i didn’t even payed attention one day i said i want to gear up my guard and had the gear and the ar collecting dust.

It may not be a problem to a veteran that played a lot of fractals before, and doesn’t have many alts. It is extremely annoying to someone that is a more recent player. Or, to someone that has a lot of characters/builds, and likes to test them out.
Personally, i never have enough infusions around. The gold cost is also not so insignificant.

Also, while it may happen passively, it also takes a lot of time. As i said, it’s a grind just for a grind’s sake.

Why would i be a veteran? I have a little over 1000 hours and i got into fractals after hot ( srsly that is building an asc armor and looking into the infusion system). I also have all my character slots filled with lvl 80 chars which i gear to get into fractals so i know how making a new character fractal ready pretty much feels like. The gold cost is insignificant 2 days worth of fractals is usually enough for a +9 infusion. The costs is also ~3g for the + 9 ones and less for the +7 ones. Now dont get me wrong im all in for a system where you can get cheaper infusions once you maxed out you main character but no its not a grind for grind’s sake its a grind for bigger challenge/reward’s sake.

Gearing up a second character is definitely a grind for grind’s sake, as there’s no longer any challenge here, if you already can do t4’s.

No not really experience creates challenge. I’ll tell u what i main mesmer, i can say im a decent if not a really good mesmer and iv come to a point where playing mesmer in fractals is just ez. I recently geared a guardian to do fractals and the diff in playstyle creates a big challenge as the 2 classes do not have the same way they deal dmg/avoid dmg/cc and move around during the fight.Because of that i can appreciate the existance of ar coz it smoothened my fractal experience with that character since i did a few t3s and then i jumped into t4.

Remember, that most people first get infusions with their already geared up (and running t4) character, and only then equip their alt. They don’t gear up the alt the same way they did with original char (by running the fractals with that char and getting gear/infusions that way). And there’s really no point in having that method take long or be too grindy (well, apart from it being a gold sink, of course).
As i said, it’s grind for grind’s sake.

Astralporing.1957:

zealex.9410:

Astralporing.1957:

zealex.9410:

Astralporing.1957:

zealex.9410:

it tends to happen passively while running your dailies you get ar and drops how do you thing i geared all my chars? And i didn’t even payed attention one day i said i want to gear up my guard and had the gear and the ar collecting dust.

It may not be a problem to a veteran that played a lot of fractals before, and doesn’t have many alts. It is extremely annoying to someone that is a more recent player. Or, to someone that has a lot of characters/builds, and likes to test them out.
Personally, i never have enough infusions around. The gold cost is also not so insignificant.

Also, while it may happen passively, it also takes a lot of time. As i said, it’s a grind just for a grind’s sake.

Why would i be a veteran? I have a little over 1000 hours and i got into fractals after hot ( srsly that is building an asc armor and looking into the infusion system). I also have all my character slots filled with lvl 80 chars which i gear to get into fractals so i know how making a new character fractal ready pretty much feels like. The gold cost is insignificant 2 days worth of fractals is usually enough for a +9 infusion. The costs is also ~3g for the + 9 ones and less for the +7 ones. Now dont get me wrong im all in for a system where you can get cheaper infusions once you maxed out you main character but no its not a grind for grind’s sake its a grind for bigger challenge/reward’s sake.

Gearing up a second character is definitely a grind for grind’s sake, as there’s no longer any challenge here, if you already can do t4’s.

No not really experience creates challenge. I’ll tell u what i main mesmer, i can say im a decent if not a really good mesmer and iv come to a point where playing mesmer in fractals is just ez. I recently geared a guardian to do fractals and the diff in playstyle creates a big challenge as the 2 classes do not have the same way they deal dmg/avoid dmg/cc and move around during the fight.Because of that i can appreciate the existance of ar coz it smoothened my fractal experience with that character since i did a few t3s and then i jumped into t4.

Remember, that most people first get infusions with their already geared up (and running t4) character, and only then equip their alt. They don’t gear up the alt the same way they did with original char (by running the fractals with that char and getting gear/infusions that way). And there’s really no point in having that method take long or be too grindy (well, apart from it being a gold sink, of course).
As i said, it’s grind for grind’s sake.

i did not say anywhere that i geared up my alts the same way i did with my main

zealex.9410:

Astralporing.1957:

zealex.9410:

Astralporing.1957:

zealex.9410:

Astralporing.1957:

zealex.9410:

it tends to happen passively while running your dailies you get ar and drops how do you thing i geared all my chars? And i didn’t even payed attention one day i said i want to gear up my guard and had the gear and the ar collecting dust.

It may not be a problem to a veteran that played a lot of fractals before, and doesn’t have many alts. It is extremely annoying to someone that is a more recent player. Or, to someone that has a lot of characters/builds, and likes to test them out.
Personally, i never have enough infusions around. The gold cost is also not so insignificant.

Also, while it may happen passively, it also takes a lot of time. As i said, it’s a grind just for a grind’s sake.

Why would i be a veteran? I have a little over 1000 hours and i got into fractals after hot ( srsly that is building an asc armor and looking into the infusion system). I also have all my character slots filled with lvl 80 chars which i gear to get into fractals so i know how making a new character fractal ready pretty much feels like. The gold cost is insignificant 2 days worth of fractals is usually enough for a +9 infusion. The costs is also ~3g for the + 9 ones and less for the +7 ones. Now dont get me wrong im all in for a system where you can get cheaper infusions once you maxed out you main character but no its not a grind for grind’s sake its a grind for bigger challenge/reward’s sake.

Gearing up a second character is definitely a grind for grind’s sake, as there’s no longer any challenge here, if you already can do t4’s.

No not really experience creates challenge. I’ll tell u what i main mesmer, i can say im a decent if not a really good mesmer and iv come to a point where playing mesmer in fractals is just ez. I recently geared a guardian to do fractals and the diff in playstyle creates a big challenge as the 2 classes do not have the same way they deal dmg/avoid dmg/cc and move around during the fight.Because of that i can appreciate the existance of ar coz it smoothened my fractal experience with that character since i did a few t3s and then i jumped into t4.

Remember, that most people first get infusions with their already geared up (and running t4) character, and only then equip their alt. They don’t gear up the alt the same way they did with original char (by running the fractals with that char and getting gear/infusions that way). And there’s really no point in having that method take long or be too grindy (well, apart from it being a gold sink, of course).
As i said, it’s grind for grind’s sake.

i did not say anywhere that i geared up my alts the same way i did with my main

If you weren’t farming infusions with your mesmer, then how exactly the need to farm them smoothened your experience?

Astralporing.1957:

zealex.9410:

Astralporing.1957:

zealex.9410:

Astralporing.1957:

zealex.9410:

Astralporing.1957:

zealex.9410:

it tends to happen passively while running your dailies you get ar and drops how do you thing i geared all my chars? And i didn’t even payed attention one day i said i want to gear up my guard and had the gear and the ar collecting dust.

It may not be a problem to a veteran that played a lot of fractals before, and doesn’t have many alts. It is extremely annoying to someone that is a more recent player. Or, to someone that has a lot of characters/builds, and likes to test them out.
Personally, i never have enough infusions around. The gold cost is also not so insignificant.

Also, while it may happen passively, it also takes a lot of time. As i said, it’s a grind just for a grind’s sake.

Why would i be a veteran? I have a little over 1000 hours and i got into fractals after hot ( srsly that is building an asc armor and looking into the infusion system). I also have all my character slots filled with lvl 80 chars which i gear to get into fractals so i know how making a new character fractal ready pretty much feels like. The gold cost is insignificant 2 days worth of fractals is usually enough for a +9 infusion. The costs is also ~3g for the + 9 ones and less for the +7 ones. Now dont get me wrong im all in for a system where you can get cheaper infusions once you maxed out you main character but no its not a grind for grind’s sake its a grind for bigger challenge/reward’s sake.

Gearing up a second character is definitely a grind for grind’s sake, as there’s no longer any challenge here, if you already can do t4’s.

No not really experience creates challenge. I’ll tell u what i main mesmer, i can say im a decent if not a really good mesmer and iv come to a point where playing mesmer in fractals is just ez. I recently geared a guardian to do fractals and the diff in playstyle creates a big challenge as the 2 classes do not have the same way they deal dmg/avoid dmg/cc and move around during the fight.Because of that i can appreciate the existance of ar coz it smoothened my fractal experience with that character since i did a few t3s and then i jumped into t4.

Remember, that most people first get infusions with their already geared up (and running t4) character, and only then equip their alt. They don’t gear up the alt the same way they did with original char (by running the fractals with that char and getting gear/infusions that way). And there’s really no point in having that method take long or be too grindy (well, apart from it being a gold sink, of course).
As i said, it’s grind for grind’s sake.

i did not say anywhere that i geared up my alts the same way i did with my main

If you weren’t farming infusions with your mesmer, then how exactly the need to farm them smoothened your experience?

i farmed them with my mesmer, i didnt finise the entire set of infusions in a day tho so i just joined a few pug rns with y guard with what ar i had at that time enough for daily rec and maybe the daial t3s

Well i don’t like the grinding they put in with ascended gear, infusions and the gates for some attribute combinations. That was what made GW1 so special. No grind at all. I wouldnt have thrown that overboard.
And infusions is rly the most brainless part of it. I think fractals should be about skill not the amount of AR you have.
The way it is at them moment i just do my T2 dailys brain afk if i need some money. I would never invest the money for max AR. Not even if i had the money and didn’t knew what to do with it.
It sounds like the developers don’t know how to fix it so they just leave it the way it is.
Grind for grind’s sake.. you nailed it
The design of the raids is much healthier.