Guild Wars 2

Would really like to see a Dev response on this one. During the past week over on reddit, there have been a couple of posts about people selling party slots for dungeons. Here is one example.

http://i.imgur.com/LEqa6hv.png

I know that some of these people are just skilled players who have soloed a difficult dungeon and are trying to earn back some money for the time they spent. That said, there are also players out there who will kick a party at the end of a path and then sell the slots. The average player can’t really tell the difference.

What is Anet’s official stance on selling party slots? What do you as the community think about this practice?

This thread again? As far as i’m concerned, anet devs were okay with people selling dungeon slots, as long as nobody has been kicked against their will. If you get kicked, report people and they’ll highly likely get banned. This has been the case for months now, nothing wrong with it, like you said, if people do this legit.

Protip: If there is only two people left in the group and the party leader kicks every single person, the instance gets terminated. If the people leave voluntarily, the instance leader can stay inside the dungeon by himself, not terminating the dungeon instance, so if you see someone selling 4 spots, you can be sure that he did not kick the people.
Of course i took into consideration that 2 people could have teamed up and kicked everyone but 3 and the last guy would just leave himself, but come on, how many times does this actually happen?

Has this already been answered somewhere? I tried using the search feature but came up empty handed. If this has already been answered, then there is no need for me to bring it up again.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/When-will-dungeon-kicking-be-fixed/first#post2642891

Few days old thread.

As for anet dev answer, they have probably answered somewhere else on the forum. Devs never post in the dungeon section as there’s no dungeon team anymore.

Anet has had the same stance they had in GW1 since launch. As long as you don’t scam people, do whatever the hell you want.

If people get kicked for their party spots, report them. It’s a very rare practice and not all the stories you hear are true either. Some of them are also sh*tters that got kicked and are whining about it because they are ‘pro’ and the others are just malicious people who sell spots for money.

EDIT: removed some text that was directed at someone else.

Ah yep, that was the first instance I saw this week. I guess they posted on here too. Thanks Emmanuel.

Also Bright…wtf man? How does it hurt you for me to post on here? Worst case scenario a miracle happens and we get a response saying probably what you have already said. Then you would have a legitimate source to back up your position. I don’t see how that could be a bad thing for you.

Also note, I never once said anywhere, either here or on reddit that I don’t think people who didn’t do the paths don’t deserve the rewards. I am just worried about the negative impact that the widespread practice of selling party slots for gold could cause for the game as a whole. There’s no reason to be rude.

pachex.9723:

Also note, I never once said anywhere, either here or on reddit that I don’t think people who didn’t do the paths don’t deserve the rewards. I am just worried about the negative impact that the widespread practice of selling party slots for gold could cause for the game as a whole. There’s no reason to be rude.

You are correct, the person that said that was someone else, but his name looked like yours. I’m sorry I put words in your mouth, and I’ll edit the post.

On topic though, they were perfectly fine with it in GW1, although that could be because there was no way to scam people other than leave when you got payed, but nothing like here where you can kick people and invite new players to fill up the spots, because you couldn’t join an instance once it was created.

I don’t see what they could possibly see wrong with it though, since it’s not harming anyone.

The only bad thing is people skipping lupi in p2. it’s really frustrating so see so many “noob” runners who make hundreds of gold for selling exploits

Bright.9160:

On topic though, they were perfectly fine with it in GW1, although that could be because there was no way to scam people other than leave when you got payed, but nothing like here where you can kick people and invite new players to fill up the spots, because you couldn’t join an instance once it was created.

I don’t see what they could possibly see wrong with it though, since it’s not harming anyone.

Well, also remember that in GW1 the economy was even more broken than this one.

I pretty much agree with you on the fact that skilled players soloing dungeons and then selling boss slots really aren’t hurting anyone at the moment. That said, it would be nice to have Dev confirmation, because this wouldn’t be the first time in this game that a practice that seemed “OK” at first ended up being not so OK in Anet’s opinion.

I am more concerned with potential future outcomes to the spread of the practice. While it’s limited to a few skilled players soloing dungeons, sure, why not…But what happens if the general public decides to start charging people just to party up with them for dungeons because they consider themselves “L33T”?

It would look bad for them to come out and say explicitly “Yes! Please, sell your dungeon slots so people can get the rewards they didn’t earn!” It looks like they are encouraging it, rather than just allowing it, if you know what I mean. For the reasons stated above, the practice is really not an issue, but its a different matter to publicly approve of it. There best course of action of they don’t mind it is to just let it continue, which is exactly what they are doing.

pachex.9723:

[…]…But what happens if the general public decides to start charging people just to party up with them for dungeons because they consider themselves “L33T”?

Simple: Nobody joins them, but there is always casual/bad/rich players that will pay to get carried or taught.

Spiky Muffin.9180:

The only bad thing is people skipping lupi in p2. it’s really frustrating so see so many “noob” runners who make hundreds of gold for selling exploits

Even a bad pug group that does everything “legit” can clear P2 in 20-30 minutes, including wiping on Lupi a few times. A solo runner who does all the sploits on everything can take as much as twice that, even if he does everything perfectly. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to make something back for the extra time spent. It’s not like you’re making such a huge amount of money that it would be vastly unreasonable, especially with the huge gold buffs that came with the latest patch.

Plus, if people are willing to pay for it, it is by definition reasonable.

http://1.1.1.3/bmi/i.imgur.com/tMON9pd.jpg

http://1.1.1.3/bmi/i.imgur.com/RJ24e0R.jpg

That’s not exactly “twice as long”.

My only problem with it is that lfg is full of selling slots groups and no actual proper groups atm.

Dub.1273:

http://1.1.1.3/bmi/i.imgur.com/tMON9pd.jpg

http://1.1.1.3/bmi/i.imgur.com/RJ24e0R.jpg

That’s not exactly “twice as long”.

I can’t open those images. What is your claim for a solo run? I’ve never done it faster than like 30 minutes myself. The bosses take quite a long time to kill, especially Alphard, even if you skip Lupi. Meanwhile, a 15-minute Arah P2 run with players equally skilled as myself isn’t that difficult at all.

At any given level of skill, multiplying your DPS by 5 is going to make the run considerably faster, even if you do everything legit.

It takes me about 40 minutes to solo p2 without exploits and i’m pretty bad compared to people like Muffin.

Muffin has a solo p2 time of 18 minutes, and combined with Dub they have duo’d it in 9. Like Muffin was saying, the methods being used to run the path aren’t as much about skill, its about being able to exploit. Neither of them (or myself) do it like that anymore, but I’m sure if you ask nicely they would make a full normal run for you.

An average noob exploiting their way through the path can expect to be done in ~30 odd.

I imagine this is what Dub wanted to link: http://i.imgur.com/tMON9pd.jpg , http://i.imgur.com/RJ24e0R.jpg

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

Muffin has a solo p2 time of 18 minutes, and combined with Dub they have duo’d it in 9. Like Muffin was saying, the methods being used to run the path aren’t as much about skill, its about being able to exploit. Neither of them (or myself) do it like that anymore, but I’m sure if you ask nicely they would make a full normal run for you.

An average noob exploiting their way through the path can expect to be done in ~30 odd.

I imagine this is what Dub wanted to link: http://i.imgur.com/tMON9pd.jpg , http://i.imgur.com/RJ24e0R.jpg

Starting with 25 Bloodlust stacks is sort of cheating since you have to spend like 5 minutes getting those stacks. I don’t think there are enough spiders and respawning Orrians at the beginning to get you to 25 without waiting for them to respawn. I could be wrong.

I also assume you are meleeing Belka and Alphard to get those times, which means you’re barely even sploiting at all except to skip Lupi.

My links are just working fine for me. Both, on my mobile phone and on my pc…

Edit: Building 25 Bloodlust takes like what… 20 seconds?
I think he afk-ranged Belka, at least thats what i usually do. Of course you could get her done a bit faster meleeing but as far as i know he wasn’t really planning on setting a record, just doing a normal run done in a reasonable time.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Starting with 25 Bloodlust stacks is sort of cheating since you have to spend like 5 minutes getting those stacks. I don’t think there are enough spiders and respawning Orrians at the beginning to get you to 25 without waiting for them to respawn. I could be wrong.

I also assume you are meleeing Belka and Alphard to get those times, which means you’re barely even sploiting at all except to skip Lupi.

There are enough spiders and orrians there to get 25 stacks in less than a minute
edit: yes i didnt plan to do a full out speedrun. if i remember correctly i didnt even use dps food

You can use two sigils to stack twice as fast, little known fact

How do you guys deal with alphard? Me and a buddy duo’d p2 today. We kited her round the boxes to melee her but they all got destroyed and then we had to faff around in the boat. Also how do you stop beserkers and kitten coming to destroy the console while waiting for slots to be sold?

The console can’t be destroyed if Brie is into her second phase. Alphard is a pretty buggy boss. The perhaps fastest pseudo-exploit way to do it, is damage her down until she teleports into the middle to begin her daggerstorm attack. When she does that, as fast as you can run back into melee and keep attacking her. If you do this properly, she’ll stand there /taunt spamming until she spawns clones. Once clones are spawned, return to kiting around the box untils she teleports back to the middle. Repeat until dead.

There’s a various amount of other methods you can use on Alphard, shes a pretty broken boss

Thats weird cause we had brie in second phase and they destroyed it (it teleported us out) and then it bugged. Had to wipe so we could start from phase 1 again.

Eh, I could be wrong. I’ve never seen the console die tbh. If I’m going to sell the spots, I usually just don’t even start Brie until I’ve invited people.

Ah we may do that next time then.

I think someone reported me on gw2lfg for selling Arah P2 for value of completion reward. Some people sure get kitten easily.

pachex.9723:

Has this already been answered somewhere? I tried using the search feature but came up empty handed. If this has already been answered, then there is no need for me to bring it up again.

Gaile started responding to a thread about it —(The scammy kicking puggers version, not the kind most of this thread is about)-- over a month ago but I don’t think there was ever a Followup. It wasn’t in this forum obviously… It was in support. Could try PM’ing her (assuming that’s even possible)

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

I think someone reported me on gw2lfg for selling Arah P2 for value of completion reward. Some people sure get kitten easily.

Yeah someone was advertising for 6g. So i advertised for 5g and he whispered me, seeming a bit upset that I was asking for less than him.

spoj.9672:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

I think someone reported me on gw2lfg for selling Arah P2 for value of completion reward. Some people sure get kitten easily.

Yeah someone was advertising for 6g. So i advertised for 5g and he whispered me, seeming a bit upset that I was asking for less than him.

I’ve had had about 5 people whisper and report me in less than a week. The actual number of reports is probably bigger.

These people, man.

People will most likely report you for it. I got kicked from a CoE run not too long ago because pugs wanted me to pay up at the end of the path. That said, i have sold spots with a friend once, so not everyone is a baddie.

Some people are legit, others are scum. It’s a 50/50

xsquared.1926:

People will most likely report you for it. I got kicked from a CoE run not too long ago because pugs wanted me to pay up at the end of the path. That said, i have sold spots with a friend once, so not everyone is a baddie.

Some people are legit, others are scum. It’s a 50/50

more like 90(“scum”)/10 honest
that is if you consider skipping bosses i.e. lupi
in order to be able to solo and sell the path

Spiky Muffin.9180:

xsquared.1926:

People will most likely report you for it. I got kicked from a CoE run not too long ago because pugs wanted me to pay up at the end of the path. That said, i have sold spots with a friend once, so not everyone is a baddie.

Some people are legit, others are scum. It’s a 50/50

more like 90(“scum”)/10 honest
that is if you consider skipping bosses i.e. lupi
in order to be able to solo and sell the path

Skipping lupi is a cheap move, but this whole path selling thing is branching out to other dungeons too, such as CoE as i mentioned in my post above. It kind of worries me, to be honest but yet i also support it in another way. It makes 2 manning or even soloing dungeons much more profitable and gives players more reward for their time spent.

xsquared.1926:

Spiky Muffin.9180:

xsquared.1926:

People will most likely report you for it. I got kicked from a CoE run not too long ago because pugs wanted me to pay up at the end of the path. That said, i have sold spots with a friend once, so not everyone is a baddie.

Some people are legit, others are scum. It’s a 50/50

more like 90(“scum”)/10 honest
that is if you consider skipping bosses i.e. lupi
in order to be able to solo and sell the path

Skipping lupi is a cheap move, but this whole path selling thing is branching out to other dungeons too, such as CoE as i mentioned in my post above. It kind of worries me, to be honest but yet i also support it in another way. It makes 2 manning or even soloing dungeons much more profitable and gives players more reward for their time spent.

i agree. especially with the new update selling is one of the few interesting things to do after your first set of runs since it’s the only thing that makes several runs rewarding…

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

Muffin has a solo p2 time of 18 minutes, and combined with Dub they have duo’d it in 9. Like Muffin was saying, the methods being used to run the path aren’t as much about skill, its about being able to exploit. Neither of them (or myself) do it like that anymore, but I’m sure if you ask nicely they would make a full normal run for you.

An average noob exploiting their way through the path can expect to be done in ~30 odd.

I imagine this is what Dub wanted to link: http://i.imgur.com/tMON9pd.jpg , http://i.imgur.com/RJ24e0R.jpg

Speaking of skipping Lupi….

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

Muffin has a solo p2 time of 18 minutes, and combined with Dub they have duo’d it in 9. Like Muffin was saying, the methods being used to run the path aren’t as much about skill, its about being able to exploit. Neither of them (or myself) do it like that anymore, but I’m sure if you ask nicely they would make a full normal run for you.

An average noob exploiting their way through the path can expect to be done in ~30 odd.

I imagine this is what Dub wanted to link: http://i.imgur.com/tMON9pd.jpg , http://i.imgur.com/RJ24e0R.jpg

Speaking of skipping Lupi….

I used bold on a relevant sentence, but I won’t make a defense on their part.

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

Muffin has a solo p2 time of 18 minutes, and combined with Dub they have duo’d it in 9. Like Muffin was saying, the methods being used to run the path aren’t as much about skill, its about being able to exploit. Neither of them (or myself) do it like that anymore, but I’m sure if you ask nicely they would make a full normal run for you.

An average noob exploiting their way through the path can expect to be done in ~30 odd.

I imagine this is what Dub wanted to link: http://i.imgur.com/tMON9pd.jpg , http://i.imgur.com/RJ24e0R.jpg

Speaking of skipping Lupi….

I used bold on a relevant sentence, but I won’t make a defense on their part.

I was talking about the screenshots, but yes, I see the bold too.

In guild wars 1, if you want to any town that acted as a hub to form a group to do a dungeon there would be 2+ people running the dungeon for gold. I don’t think I ever saw any complaint threads for guild wars 1 regarding selling spots. I don’t see why it would be any different in this game. It just seems less common since the only thing people would want a run for is Arah which takes skill or Fractal which takes time and skill depending on the level.

Let them be. They are playing the game how they want to play and are adhering to ANET’s philosophy.

^If I’m selling spots I get around the account bound daily reward and you get free 60 tokens+26s+1 loot bag for essentially 0 work provided I’m selling say Arah p1p2p4 for 3g… Don’t see the problem you can also just walk past the offer if you aren’t interested, don’t see how this negatively effect anybody? As of kicking, I’d say it’s relatively rare overall, yet that’s entirely a different issue regarding dungeon leader/kicking mechanics implementation, not selling spots

The reason that it’s a problem is because there are delusional lunatics that actually think it’s impossible to solo Arah and that pugs are kicked at the end so the party leader can make money off of being carried through a dungeon. If people used their brains and didn’t buy into reddit drama, there would be no problem.

They should ban people who exploit.

Wethospu.6437:

They should ban people who exploit.

If you are including dungeons exploits, a large majority of the players in guild Wars 2 would be banned, then.

Either that or fix the exploits.

Fix? Did I hear the word fix? They can’t even fix one of the most terrible thing that has ever happened for the in game economy in a timely manner, the g******* cursed shore ember farm, so when it comes to fixing exploits/bugs in dungeons..

They’ve demonstrated that they can only band-aid fix the exploits by putting a wall or something in the way. Maybe it’s a lack of caring or being unable, but it’s never a permanent fix.

They already fixed some skipping exploits by sequence checks. Endbosses usually don’t trigger anymore if you didn’t kill some bosses before and if they do you won’t get reward. Thing is, not all bosses are part of the qualification for the reward and that has to change.

Dub.1273:

They already fixed some skipping exploits by sequence checks. Endbosses usually don’t trigger anymore if you didn’t kill some bosses before and if they do you won’t get reward. Thing is, not all bosses are part of the qualification for the reward and that has to change.

It took them months to “fix” CoE, but you can still do fancy jumps for extra chests. They don’t seem to be aware of all of the ways to break dungeons, probably because they never test them. Usually when one fix is used on an exploit, one or 2 more are found pretty soon after the fix is implemented. Then it takes time to be able to put another invisible wall in the way.

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

Dub.1273:

They already fixed some skipping exploits by sequence checks. Endbosses usually don’t trigger anymore if you didn’t kill some bosses before and if they do you won’t get reward. Thing is, not all bosses are part of the qualification for the reward and that has to change.

It took them months to “fix” CoE, but you can still do fancy jumps for extra chests. They don’t seem to be aware of all of the ways to break dungeons, probably because they never test them. Usually when one fix is used on an exploit, one or 2 more are found pretty soon after the fix is implemented. Then it takes time to be able to put another invisible wall in the way.

They should just fill all the places you’re not supposed to go to with Risen Deadeyes.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

Dub.1273:

They already fixed some skipping exploits by sequence checks. Endbosses usually don’t trigger anymore if you didn’t kill some bosses before and if they do you won’t get reward. Thing is, not all bosses are part of the qualification for the reward and that has to change.

It took them months to “fix” CoE, but you can still do fancy jumps for extra chests. They don’t seem to be aware of all of the ways to break dungeons, probably because they never test them. Usually when one fix is used on an exploit, one or 2 more are found pretty soon after the fix is implemented. Then it takes time to be able to put another invisible wall in the way.

They should just fill all the places you’re not supposed to go to with Risen Deadeyes.

I think champion warriors with blade trail that can’t be dodged is a better idea.

Well, necrotic’ing into Gloom was technically also considered an exploit, that took them 7 years to fix. And they didn’t even fix it, they just completely nerfed teleport skills.

Rezscroll glitch was reported in 2007, that one took them 6 years to patch.

Sometimes, they just don’t care.