Guild Wars 2

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

I don’t think anyone is saying that people selling paths are terrible people. You shouldn’t be making strawman arguments.

The real issue is not with the players selling paths (it’s a perfectly fine business), but with the current game situation where the business seems to dominate certain dungeons (specifically Arah). And I do think it should be addressed.

Yeah, all dungeons should have a market to be sold

WTB Coe tonight so I can RP all night instead of running!

Funny thing is I would actually buy cm and ta on occasion if I felt lazy and just wanted xp on alts.

spoj.9672:

Funny thing is I would actually buy cm and ta on occasion if I felt lazy and just wanted xp on alts.

Really? I’ve been pretty lucky with CM and AC pugs so far. I’ve never felt the need to buy any runs.

Although last night it really felt like I (the necromancer of all people) was dragging the rest of the party through AC path 2… and we had 1 warrior and 2 guardians for crying out loud. Then afterwards they wanted to go do path 3, which is when I wished them good luck with their future endeavors.

But generally, it isn’t hard to find a decent random party for dungeons like CM, TA and AC. Arah is a different matter.

I have plenty of people I can speedrun those paths with. Its just lately I havent had much interest in doing lots of paths, but I still want to level my engi. Yesterday I bought ac p1 on my engi for 1.25g and then just went and solo’d arah p3 on my necro and sold the remaining slots to make a nice profit.

People against selling Arah paths mostly (99% at least) can’t solo Lupi and bosses. Am I right?

SkyChef.5432:

People against selling Arah paths mostly (99% at least) can’t solo Lupi and bosses. Am I right?

People selling Arah paths mostly can’t solo Lupi and bosses.

robertul.3679:

SkyChef.5432:

People against selling Arah paths mostly (99% at least) can’t solo Lupi and bosses. Am I right?

People selling Arah paths mostly can’t solo Lupi and bosses.

Both statements are pretty accurate.

Zhaitan.2578:

I am an Arah dungeon seller.

As of right now, arah dungeon selling is in a horrible state, not only for the consumer, but also for the seller.

Arah is full of exploits. Obvious exploits. Skipping lupicus, skipping directly to light orb, killing bosses while phase-shifted, and more. It is ridiculous.

The worst part? Arenanet hasn’t done ANYTHING about it. Skipping content isn’t only in the dungeon selling community. Skipping lupicus has become the new norm for pugs. Popular guilds are posting videos of these skips and exploits since “every trick is the industry standard.” Arenanet made an official statement that dungeon selling is allowed as long as the content wasn’t exploited, yet people do it every day.

So how is this harmful?

This has stirred rebellion in the people. People are sick of Arenanet not doing anything about people cheating, so they destroy the instances. People join parties and kick the host. People abuse the merge party bug in order to instantly destroy instances.

Buyers are often out money since dungeon runners aren’t very sympathetic after being kicked. Kickers can face account suspensions. And sellers face the frustration of all of their work for nothing.

This is especially bad in the few cases where dungeon sellers are legitimate, meaning they don’t exploit the run. When I solo arah, I don’t skip or trivialize content. I play by the rules, but since some people assume I am an exploiter, many of my dungeons runs end with nothing.

Arenanet needs to do something. It is ridiculous that these exploits have been in the dungeon for so long and are so widely known, but no action has been taken to fix them or to ban the exploiters.

Moreover, Arenanet needs to hold a firm stance. If they advocate dungeon selling, they need to put something in place that protects the seller and the buyer. I am willing to pay some gold in order to open up some kind of special instance. Maybe 1g to open up an instance where I am the only one allowed, but after the game engine recognizes me at a certain spot in the dungeon, I can post in lfg where people are notified that I am at the final boss and will be deducted a specified amount of gold upon entering my party. Anything.

So Arenanet, please help the dungeon selling community. The current market is in ruins. Sellers exploiting dungeons, griefers kicking legitimate sellers, buyers getting ripped off. all is vain.

I couldn’t agree with this more. Also, this is very well stated. Every part of this is true. I’m also a dungeon seller. I solo without any exploits and it really does a lot of concentration and effort. My policy is that I let the buyers pay at the end when they get their reward. I’ve been lucky to have never been ripped off. I also worry about griefers kicking me out of the dungeon for whatever reason they have. It hasn’t happened to me so far, but the risk is always there. I definitely support your ideas.

I can’t believe people are actually whining about this. I don’t give a rat’s kitten about skill, I want to be efficient in making gold and I will skip everything I can in order to achieve as much as I can, because grinding is kittened (ANet: “we don’t make grindy games”) yet I still need to make 800gold to buy my precursor. Anything I can do to make that faster is welcome.

Mochann.5298:

I can’t believe people are actually whining about this. I don’t give a rat’s kitten about skill, I want to be efficient in making gold and I will skip everything I can in order to achieve as much as I can, because grinding is kittened (ANet: “we don’t make grindy games”) yet I still need to make 800gold to buy my precursor. Anything I can do to make that faster is welcome.

They indeed don’t make grindy games, you don’t need a legendary to be able to play the game. It’s kinda sad exploiting gets rewarded so much while some ppl have been learning lupi for countless of hours to be able to solo him.

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

castle.3689:

then likewise Anet must not have intended for a mesmer’s feedback to be able to reflect his projectiles back for half his health and trivializing the encounter.

Anet programs three types of projectiles. Reflectable, blockable, indestructable. The ones they use are intentionally chosen.

FWIW, when I sell arah paths I don’t use any reflects to kill Lupicus. Though my Sword #5 block does a lot of work.

these are the conclusion I have about the reflection mechanics, when reflecting you don’t just reflect the projectile, in fact you use the skill tied to it, but this is where it becomes interesting these skills were given insanely high scaling with power and that’s why we reflect for so much damages. But we can also conclude something new monters/bosses don’t have a lot of power ,I will give one example: the butcher this guys is hitting for around 230 with retaliation while a lv 80 guard would hit around 380, well an example is not a total proof to a statement(IE: quagans in HOTW can retaliate for 750 which mean they have a huge amount of power, but they are elite: read upscaled),
so my last statement would be that the guy who decided to create bosses for GW2 gave them a really low amount of power while giving them skills that scale ridiculously well with power. which could be interesting in the boss stacking might but is irellevant for anything else, in my example it just made retaliation(and even regeneration) pointless.

Teckos.1305:

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

castle.3689:

then likewise Anet must not have intended for a mesmer’s feedback to be able to reflect his projectiles back for half his health and trivializing the encounter.

Anet programs three types of projectiles. Reflectable, blockable, indestructable. The ones they use are intentionally chosen.

FWIW, when I sell arah paths I don’t use any reflects to kill Lupicus. Though my Sword #5 block does a lot of work.

these are the conclusion I have about the reflection mechanics, when reflecting you don’t just reflect the projectile, in fact you use the skill tied to it, but this is where it becomes interesting these skills were given insanely high scaling with power and that’s why we reflect for so much damages. But we can also conclude something new monters/bosses don’t have a lot of power ,I will give one example: the butcher this guys is hitting for around 230 with retaliation while a lv 80 guard would hit around 380, well an example is not a total proof to a statement(IE: quagans in HOTW can retaliate for 750 which mean they have a huge amount of power, but they are elite: read upscaled),
so my last statement would be that the guy who decided to create bosses for GW2 gave them a really low amount of power while giving them skills that scale ridiculously well with power. which could be interesting in the boss stacking might but is irellevant for anything else, in my example it just made retaliation(and even regeneration) pointless.

Except reflect damage doesn’t scale with power.

Ephemeral.5409:

Teckos.1305:

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

castle.3689:

then likewise Anet must not have intended for a mesmer’s feedback to be able to reflect his projectiles back for half his health and trivializing the encounter.

Anet programs three types of projectiles. Reflectable, blockable, indestructable. The ones they use are intentionally chosen.

FWIW, when I sell arah paths I don’t use any reflects to kill Lupicus. Though my Sword #5 block does a lot of work.

these are the conclusion I have about the reflection mechanics, when reflecting you don’t just reflect the projectile, in fact you use the skill tied to it, but this is where it becomes interesting these skills were given insanely high scaling with power and that’s why we reflect for so much damages. But we can also conclude something new monters/bosses don’t have a lot of power ,I will give one example: the butcher this guys is hitting for around 230 with retaliation while a lv 80 guard would hit around 380, well an example is not a total proof to a statement(IE: quagans in HOTW can retaliate for 750 which mean they have a huge amount of power, but they are elite: read upscaled),
so my last statement would be that the guy who decided to create bosses for GW2 gave them a really low amount of power while giving them skills that scale ridiculously well with power. which could be interesting in the boss stacking might but is irellevant for anything else, in my example it just made retaliation(and even regeneration) pointless.

Except reflect damage doesn’t scale with power.

I would really like proof of this.

it only scales with crit damage, damage modifiers and crits based off your own precision. that’s why 10/30/0/20/10 mesmer and 30/30/0/0/10 mesmers hit equally hard with feedback

guanlongwucaii.3162:

it only scales with crit damage, damage modifiers and crits based off your own precision. that’s why 10/30/0/20/10 mesmer and 30/30/0/0/10 mesmers hit equally hard with feedback

so if i get it well it takes the flat damage the boss should be outputting then it sends it’s back and apply you trait crits etc?

pretty much. from what I know boss damage also isn’t fixed (apparently they have weapon damage range like players) so even with 25 vuln you may see 31k feedbacks on lupi, and other times you may see 33k hits.

Only way to stop selling is to implement a system where – no new party members can join after path is selected. Of course this will also create a lot of other problems.

You cant expect Anet to look at all the reported lfg’s

Zaxares.5419:

Am I the only one who sees the irony in “Zhaitan” being an Arah seller? XD

But on topic, I don’t think much will be done anytime soon. ANet may have said dungeon selling is “OK”, but I think they mean that in the sense that it’s not a bannable offense. ANet has had a track record of not liking runs and skips dating all the way back to GW1; they just can’t eradicate it completely because players inevitably find a new way to cheese/skip content, and they can’t fix everything without making the game all but unenjoyable for normal players.

Agreed. Zhaitan is being so hypocritical in my perspective of view after reading Zhaitan post.
Besides, there is no valid reason for ANet to ban player who exploit the map/dungeon, because this is ANet their own fault. GW2 game-design team fail to check object and terrain collision properly so the players enable access to the “leak”. Moreover, exploring is nature of most of MMORPG players. As for me, exploration is part of fun of playing MMORPG. If Anet don’t want “exploit” things happen, then they have to do their job right, not to ban players.

Nah… Zhaitan is just frustrated due to his source of money being chopped.

anyway, those “exploits” have been in the game for months/ a year?
arah gets rushed since oct ’12, and its still ongoing. and there were countless reports, sometimes with screenshots, sometimes with videos. in my opinion anet HAS a reason to ban players shortly IF they really treated it like an exploit. leaving it in the game for months, fixing nothing despite several reports, and suddenly ban people for it? absolutly not ok.
really anet, it is ok if (shortly) bann people for exploiting, but if this exploits are reason enough to bann, then treat them like exploits and fix them immediately. i cant stand that whole "twoface"thing …

Flissy.4093:

Don’t be mad because you’re not skilled enough to solo a dungeon.

The reason you see more sellers than runners is because normal groups fill up a lot faster – try posting a group and see how quick it fills up.

They don’t need to ban selling, they need to ban exploiters ruining the market for skilled PvErs.

I’m in same boat as OP, no point selling Arah ‘cause people just kick thinking you exploit, and there’s that many doing it it’s pitiful profit I may aswell just give the spots to friends.

Don’t encourage the ban-hammer! They flail that thing around like a child with a bubble blower.
But yeah, I’ve easily given away in excess of 300g worth of Arah runs because I honestly couldn’t be bothered going through the drama of selling.

Oh and… I like your signature ;D

ChaosKirin.1328:

No one should be selling spots in a dungeon run. I hope they ban it.

This.
If I were a new player to this game I’d have serious doubts about continue playing, much more so than e.g. speed groups that all MMO’s have. Selling dungeons only means two things in my book: Exploits and terrabad players. All the horrible fails I’ve seen on Marionette this past month from people sporting Arah gear with zero skills. Thank you sellers for ruining one of the few cool armor sets :p

Gambit.8425:

ChaosKirin.1328:

No one should be selling spots in a dungeon run. I hope they ban it.

This.
If I were a new player to this game I’d have serious doubts about continue playing, much more so than e.g. speed groups that all MMO’s have. Selling dungeons only means two things in my book: Exploits and terrabad players. All the horrible fails I’ve seen on Marionette this past month from people sporting Arah gear with zero skills. Thank you sellers for ruining one of the few cool armor sets :p

Err, so people who solo legit and sell for extra profit are terribad?
wow, your logic.. great going…
guess im terribad then for not hopping on the Queensdale train cause i rather have brain cells.

Cries Of Sorrow.5864:

Err, so people who solo legit and sell for extra profit are terribad?
wow, your logic.. great going…
guess im terribad then for not hopping on the Queensdale train cause i rather have brain cells.

Some people have communist tendencies I guess… you are bad because you’re making more gold. I remember being called greedy when I mentioned my profits, lol.

noobgood.8762:

Cries Of Sorrow.5864:

Err, so people who solo legit and sell for extra profit are terribad?
wow, your logic.. great going…
guess im terribad then for not hopping on the Queensdale train cause i rather have brain cells.

Some people have communist tendencies I guess… you are bad because you’re making more gold. I remember being called greedy when I mentioned my profits, lol.

Speaking of communist tendencies, you should check This.

Gambit.8425:

Selling dungeons only means two things in my book: Exploits and terrabad players.

Not everyone has to use exploits to solo. Plenty do it legit. If you couldn’t have thought of that yourself maybe you belong to the latter group.

Gambit.8425:

All the horrible fails I’ve seen on Marionette this past month from people sporting Arah gear with zero skills. Thank you sellers for ruining one of the few cool armor sets :p

Because people can’t get carried through Arah or invited at the last moment by friends/guildies.

dutchiez.7502:

Gambit.8425:

Selling dungeons only means two things in my book: Exploits and terrabad players.

Not everyone has to use exploits to solo. Plenty do it legit. If you couldn’t have thought of that yourself maybe you belong to the latter group.

Gambit.8425:

All the horrible fails I’ve seen on Marionette this past month from people sporting Arah gear with zero skills. Thank you sellers for ruining one of the few cool armor sets :p

Because people can’t get carried through Arah or invited at the last moment by friends/guildies.

Mhmm. Anyone who has pugged Arah more than a handful of times knows a large percentage of runners are being carried.

I’m proud to be carried

Cries Of Sorrow.5864:

Speaking of communist tendencies, you should check This.

Omg, this is hilarious.

Cries Of Sorrow.5864:

Err, so people who solo legit and sell for extra profit are terribad?
wow, your logic.. great going…
guess im terribad then for not hopping on the Queensdale train cause i rather have brain cells.

Of course I meant buyers are the terribad. lol

dutchiez.7502:

Not everyone has to use exploits to solo. Plenty do it legit. If you couldn’t have thought of that yourself maybe you belong to the latter group.

Sure, some do it legit.. no way there’s a majority or something though grinding their way through when you know how easy it is not only to exploit but simply port w/e using hax. Players aren’t affraid of using them in WvW in front of an audience, so I doubt they are less frequent inside a dungeon without prying eyes.

Because people can’t get carried through Arah or invited at the last moment by friends/guildies.

IMO, Arah gear had some prestige before sellers. I rarely saw a bad player using it; bad as in not even have a dodge button binded. And maybe you like to carry or invite people at the end, but I don’t think it’s that common unless it’s a DC or something. It also takes x amount of “carried” runs before gear can be purchased, by then the carried might have gained some useful knowledge and improved their skill.

ANet should fix all of the exploits so when I sell a legit slot I can charge more. That is all.

Gambit.8425:

Cries Of Sorrow.5864:

Err, so people who solo legit and sell for extra profit are terribad?
wow, your logic.. great going…
guess im terribad then for not hopping on the Queensdale train cause i rather have brain cells.

Of course I meant buyers are the terribad. lol

dutchiez.7502:

Not everyone has to use exploits to solo. Plenty do it legit. If you couldn’t have thought of that yourself maybe you belong to the latter group.

Sure, some do it legit.. no way there’s a majority or something though grinding their way through when you know how easy it is not only to exploit but simply port w/e using hax. Players aren’t affraid of using them in WvW in front of an audience, so I doubt they are less frequent inside a dungeon without prying eyes.

Because people can’t get carried through Arah or invited at the last moment by friends/guildies.

IMO, Arah gear had some prestige before sellers. I rarely saw a bad player using it; bad as in not even have a dodge button binded. And maybe you like to carry or invite people at the end, but I don’t think it’s that common unless it’s a DC or something. It also takes x amount of “carried” runs before gear can be purchased, by then the carried might have gained some useful knowledge and improved their skill.

Arah gear never had prestige…

Cries Of Sorrow.5864:

Arah gear never had prestige…

K

Eh, I don’t care what other people are wearing. If you’re wearing it and you like how it looks on you, that’s great! But for me, I’m just concerned with whether I like what my characters are wearing. Whether you’re wearing Arah gear or Ascended gear or Ascended gear that’s transmuted to look like starter armor, it doesn’t matter at all to me.

Zaxares.5419:

Eh, I don’t care what other people are wearing. If you’re wearing it and you like how it looks on you, that’s great! But for me, I’m just concerned with whether I like what my characters are wearing. Whether you’re wearing Arah gear or Ascended gear or Ascended gear that’s transmuted to look like starter armor, it doesn’t matter at all to me.

As was the case with GW1, it doesn’t take long before everyone is running around in FoW armor and Chaos Gauntlets. This ultimately undermines how special these items are, when everyone is running around in it. Which is why I simply use a mix of various common armor pieces to create a unique look, and then transmute the best stats on to them.

This is also why a common Ascended sword is less special to me, than a transmuted ascended wooden sword of doom. You earn extra respect from me, for making something so silly, ascended.

Yeeeep. I remember all too well the dozens of Monks with Obsidian Armor and Chaos Gloves in Kamadan and elsewhere. XD It was pretty obvious that most of them were getting that combo just to show off their wealth, not because they actually liked the look.