Guild Wars 2

Do you think the dungeons in this game a challenging enough or do you want them to be more tougher?

You can keep the ones already in the game the way they are. Either add hardmode or add a higher tier of dungeons ( that arent fractals)

depends,… do you really run them or do you skip them? Do you fight the boss as you should or do you bug them/pull them away from bodyguards/etc?

Anyway, dungeons can’t be difficult… too many zerkids will cry

I’m bad at them so I think they should be easier.

The danger in asking for higher dungeon difficulty is they seem to think this means adding more boss HP, more invulnerability phases, and crappier camera angles.

Yes, dungeons should be harder. No, this will probably not come in the form of smarter mob AI.

They don’t need to be more difficult, just not skipable. Skipping mobs kills the inmersion what kills the fun for me at least.

Mesket.5728:

They don’t need to be more difficult, just not skipable. Skipping mobs kills the inmersion what kills the fun for me at least.

No. Anet is fine with people skipping mobs and it’s faster and more profitable not to fight them.

Any efforts by Anet to “make dungeons harder” will probably just add time gating a la Molten Facility or Mai Trin/Horrik’s annoying AoE phase. Though I guess some of the gauntlet enemies had interesting mechanics, like the 4 pirates that would give each other different abilities depending on who you kill first.

But then, look at how whiny baby cry cry everyone got over the AC changes, then look at how they screamed about the Liadri gauntlet, then imagine them making a dungeon boss that was actually “difficult”.

The tears would be legendary.

Broadicea.8294:

Any efforts by Anet to “make dungeons harder” will probably just add time gating a la Molten Facility or Mai Trin/Horrik’s annoying AoE phase. Though I guess some of the gauntlet enemies had interesting mechanics, like the 4 pirates that would give each other different abilities depending on who you kill first.

But then, look at how whiny baby cry cry everyone got over the AC changes, then look at how they screamed about the Liadri gauntlet, then imagine them making a dungeon boss that was actually “difficult”.

The tears would be legendary.

I never understood the whole issue with to skip or not to skip. If you want to wade through the extra mobs they are there for you to kill, but if you only want to take out the boss and move on then there is usually a way for you to do that. It’s the best way, you have the option to do either. I prefer efficiency myself. Sometimes it’s better to exterminate and sometimes a sprint through a bunch of mobs that don’t give a decent drop is ideal. The best thing to do is to form a guild of like minded individuals and play with them. I’ve read these forums for quite a while and there are plenty of both kinds of players.

As far as the original question dungeons are fine, I’d like for them to fix some of the bugs more so than anything else. Did they ever fix the nodes in the boss fight in AC P2 for example? It’s been a while since I ran AC I farmed all the tokens I need from there a while back. Sometimes when we lured it near one of the nodes it would not debuff the boss so we could attack it.

I’d like to see more dungeons and more fractals of varying degree in difficulty. I liked some of the newer living story dungeons that required you to have brain activity such as dodging the cannon fire in the Aetherblade dungeon, or the weapon testing grounds in the Molten Facility. I believe I have mastered the ability of, or at least have a great understanding of how to maul something to death while I monitor my Health Pool, dodges, and assist my allies.

One last note, dungeons are supposed to be challenging, especially fractals, it’s not a private instance of PVE. It’s important to understand that before they are played. They also come in different levels of difficulty COF for example is cake compared to other dungeons such as Arah so there should be something for everyone.

But if you really want that Dungeon Master title you’re gonna have to put in some work for it.

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

Mesket.5728:

They don’t need to be more difficult, just not skipable. Skipping mobs kills the inmersion what kills the fun for me at least.

No. Anet is fine with people skipping mobs and it’s faster and more profitable not to fight them.

Because that’s EXACTLY what they want. To be more profitable and fast. That is ANet’s goal. All the other mobs wondering around in the dungeon was an accident with the mob spawning machine, it went crazy and they couldnt stop it so the extra mobs has to be skipped! Last thing I heard is that they are still developing a way to just single hand things to players without even logging in.

My god the kind of things you read online.

Mesket.5728:

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

Mesket.5728:

They don’t need to be more difficult, just not skipable. Skipping mobs kills the inmersion what kills the fun for me at least.

No. Anet is fine with people skipping mobs and it’s faster and more profitable not to fight them.

Because that’s EXACTLY what they want. To be more profitable and fast. That is ANet’s goal. All the other mobs wondering around in the dungeon was an accident with the mob spawning machine, it went crazy and they couldnt stop it so the extra mobs has to be skipped! Last thing I heard is that they are still developing a way to just single hand things to players without even logging in.

My god the kind of things you read online.

You think you’re smart, but little do you realize that ANet have actually officially posted before that they do not mind people skipping trash/optional content.

Mesket, skipping is hard, look at the number of ppl that can’t do it So it is actually the dungeon hard mode

And if they don’t allow skipping anymore maybe they should first fix the mobs ? (looking at you stupid ooze in arah for instance)

Let’s try logic.

If Anet didn’t want players to skip they would have gated each area and the only way to open the gate would be to clear the zone of mobs. This is an overly simplified explanation but it serves the purpose of saying they don’t FORCE players to kill everything in the dungeon to complete it but they could if they wanted to design it that way.

Anet said it is ok to skip. So you are saying if you don’t like to skip, Anet should make them unskippable?

As for zerkids, there are plenty of ways to mitigate damage. Blinds, blocks, evades, reflects, invuls and dodges. Do it right and won’t take that much damage. Or you can still wear zerk gear, imm/crip/freeze bosses and range them to death.

Anet’s policy is play the way you like. Stop complaining of other ppl’s playstyles (aside from bugging stuff) and form your own parties already.

@OP dungeons are ok-ish now. I would like some form of hardmode where bosses display some real mechanics. If all dungeons get revamped ala AC, there will be much more senseless QQ.

Mesket.5728:

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

Mesket.5728:

They don’t need to be more difficult, just not skipable. Skipping mobs kills the inmersion what kills the fun for me at least.

No. Anet is fine with people skipping mobs and it’s faster and more profitable not to fight them.

Because that’s EXACTLY what they want. To be more profitable and fast. That is ANet’s goal. All the other mobs wondering around in the dungeon was an accident with the mob spawning machine, it went crazy and they couldnt stop it so the extra mobs has to be skipped! Last thing I heard is that they are still developing a way to just single hand things to players without even logging in.

My god the kind of things you read online.

Are you for real, yo?

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

I’m bad at them so I think they should be easier.

I like the idea of Hard Mode in dungeons intended for guilds, with mechanics requiring voice communication, different group composition - more emphasis on CC and support.

Both could use a serious revamp.

Tougher and more Interesting for Explorable. Training wheels for Story mode. Explorable and Story with the same mechanics and paths. Slower and Weaker mechanics for Story mode then for Explorable.

On skipping I feel that some should be, some should not be, and some should take stealth or invis or other distraction and communication to skip reliably.

Intelligent Mobs should have and use both buffs and conditions, and other profession skills and weapon attacks.

Some bosses should be a pile of hit points and immunities, but not all.

Broadicea.8294:

Any efforts by Anet to “make dungeons harder” will probably just add time gating a la Molten Facility or Mai Trin/Horrik’s annoying AoE phase. Though I guess some of the gauntlet enemies had interesting mechanics, like the 4 pirates that would give each other different abilities depending on who you kill first.

But then, look at how whiny baby cry cry everyone got over the AC changes, then look at how they screamed about the Liadri gauntlet, then imagine them making a dungeon boss that was actually “difficult”.

The tears would be legendary.

I don’t even understand the crying over the AC changes. Aside from Ghost Eater (whose difficulty largely depends on how not kittened your team is), I thought pretty much all of the changes were grand.

Melee’ing Lupi? Sure… that’s enough.
Kohler? Some days more than others.
Howler King? ….shoop da whoop?…. (It’s his constant ADDS that keep it interesting)
S-Alpha?? Hell no he needed a kitten rework LAST YEAR
Every single “final boss” in Arah …maybe even including Stargazer? … ZZZZzzzzz

Fractals? … sorry I don’t farm infusions. Chris Whiteside took a huge wrong turn there.
What’s her name in the Aetherblade retreat? LOL, only thing that killed me was when I accidentally Wasped backwards off the cliff behind me.

In a nutshell?? …less Artificial difficulty, more Depth & tricky AI plz…

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

Mesket.5728:

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

Mesket.5728:

They don’t need to be more difficult, just not skipable. Skipping mobs kills the inmersion what kills the fun for me at least.

No. Anet is fine with people skipping mobs and it’s faster and more profitable not to fight them.

Because that’s EXACTLY what they want. To be more profitable and fast. That is ANet’s goal. All the other mobs wondering around in the dungeon was an accident with the mob spawning machine, it went crazy and they couldnt stop it so the extra mobs has to be skipped! Last thing I heard is that they are still developing a way to just single hand things to players without even logging in.

My god the kind of things you read online.

Are you for real, yo?

Don’t you know there’s precisely one way to do any content and if you don’t do it in that exact precise fashion you’re an exploiter?

I wouldn’t mind a difficulty increase, if it was done right.

By “done right” I mean things like

#1: Giving enemies a quick recharging “auto attack” that does light damage instead of slow big attacks that everyone dodges.
#2: Giving enemies attack chains and multi hitting channels instead of single attacks.
#3: Giving enemies more AoEs related skills that are both damaging and defense.
#4: Giving enemies more conditions instead of just direct damage, including debuffing conditions.
#5: Giving enemies more boons and boon manipulation.

Essentially, making enemies in PVE more like in PVP. Then, enemies themselves become a lot more engaging, and require more diversity in classes and builds. The model dungeon, IMO, is the Molten Facility, which had a lot of these things. There, things like pulls and boon corruption and condition cleansing were important.

Molten facility also did hard boss fights right. Compare the final boss there to Liadri: I fought Liadri many times, and just gave up. I hated the Liadri fight because it was loaded full of fake difficulty. First time I went to molten facility, my n00bish group and me must have taken 2 hours just fighting the final boss over and over again, slowly learning and figuring out what was going on and what worked.

I lost countless times, but I didn’t get discouraged. Mostly because, when I lost, it was actually my fault. The fight was fun and engaging, and the difficulty was real. Instead of thinking “this is BS” and leaving, I thought “Keep knocking me down. It only makes me more determined”.

As of right now, most teams can just run past a lot of the content, effectively neutralizing large portions of the dungeon while making them a whole lot easier*. If they want a dungeon to be hard, then the enemies should be such a threat that you cannot just run past them.

NOTE: failure to skip isn’t difficulty. It is tedium.

serious thread is serious

NOTE: failure to skip isn’t difficulty. It is tedium.

Agreed.

Time Spent or Random chance to get Reward are not difficulty.

But I am so skilled!! Look at all the fractal skins I got!!!

When with a group of experience players. Most dungeons are fairly easy.

When showing a group of new people into a dungeon for the first time, well, it can be very challenging.

The question of difficulty isn’t really appropriate. New players find dungeons really hard especially if not given tactics and skips. Experienced players find dungeons easy since they know tried and tested tactics and the skips.

Decent framework for improving overall challenge is FoTM. But instead of increasing hp and damage, they should improve mobs and bosses. And obviously rewards…

But that requires a functional dungeon team.

mehcetylene.2376:

The danger in asking for higher dungeon difficulty is they seem to think this means adding more boss HP, more invulnerability phases, and crappier camera angles.

Yes, dungeons should be harder. No, this will probably not come in the form of smarter mob AI.

lol +1

Mesket.5728:

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

Mesket.5728:

They don’t need to be more difficult, just not skipable. Skipping mobs kills the inmersion what kills the fun for me at least.

No. Anet is fine with people skipping mobs and it’s faster and more profitable not to fight them.

Because that’s EXACTLY what they want. To be more profitable and fast. That is ANet’s goal. All the other mobs wondering around in the dungeon was an accident with the mob spawning machine, it went crazy and they couldnt stop it so the extra mobs has to be skipped! Last thing I heard is that they are still developing a way to just single hand things to players without even logging in.

My god the kind of things you read online.

strong reading comprehension

There is a huge difference with “its ok, we are not going to add a report skipper button” and “Yes we designed in a way where we want you to press sprint and W to complete it”

Mesket.5728:

There is a huge difference with “its ok, we are not going to add a report skipper button” and “Yes we designed in a way where we want you to press sprint and W to complete it”

And then there’s “We don’t mind if players skip this or not. It is up to them to decide what they wish to complete”.

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

Mesket.5728:

There is a huge difference with “its ok, we are not going to add a report skipper button” and “Yes we designed in a way where we want you to press sprint and W to complete it”

And then there’s “We don’t mind if players skip this or not. It is up to them to decide what they wish to complete”.

ahap, but then again, this is forums inside a thread were we are discussing exactly this, dungeons difficulty and what we think of and I think that asking for more difficulty to just skip it or bug it (not neccesarly the sa me thing in case anyone softy gets offended) makes no sense.

Mesket.5728:

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

Mesket.5728:

There is a huge difference with “its ok, we are not going to add a report skipper button” and “Yes we designed in a way where we want you to press sprint and W to complete it”

And then there’s “We don’t mind if players skip this or not. It is up to them to decide what they wish to complete”.

ahap, but then again, this is forums inside a thread were we are discussing exactly this, dungeons difficulty and what we think of and I think that asking for more difficulty to just skip it or bug it (not neccesarly the sa me thing in case anyone softy gets offended) makes no sense.

I want more difficulty to make other gear, builds, and communication more valuable in play.

I believe that yes, some mobs and bosses you should be able to skip, and skip easily. Anything actually chained down, oozes and other non intelligent mobs, beasts even magical giant ones should go back after chasing you out of their lair. These mobs in general should have a massive amount of hit points.

Some more intelligent mobs, like player and allied races should be harder to skip, and generally require proper timing or stealth, invisibility, distraction abilities to do so most of the time.

Some groups that are loyal, intelligent, and organised should communicate ahead if skipped, making later encounters more difficult, and should be killed before they can sound the alarm. Pulling them away from the alarm might very well be a good idea. These mobs should have a lower amount of hit points to encourage the killing of them.

That being said, I want there to be an easy version as well of all the paths in story mode as well for the folks that like running dungeons, but currently do not because of difficulty. If putting such a thing in, they should also get their own type of rewards, and there is a lot of skin chasing, so skins seem ideal to me.

If they really didn’t want peopleto skip they would design DGs filled with doors that will open only by killing all or tot mobs.

It’s the same thing of Gw1 – if they really didn’t want people to speedclear they could just have butchered every single skill used, Shadow Form Obsidian Flesh Shroud of Distress Sliver Armor I Am Unstoppable and so on.
Guess what, they completely left all of them out of any balance patch (aside minor tweaks that didn’t shock the meta so much).

They will never say “We want you to skip/Speedclear”, but as long as they leave alone content or skills in hands of players suited for it, that’s already allowing it.

Might still be that on Gw2 they don’t have the DG team to tweak all the encounters to be unskippable, granted, but Gw1 history is clear to me.

The picture says it all….

The only dungeon i remember being very challenging (that was the vanilla version+no skipping as it was done when the game launched) is CM exp.That thing was rough and it was fun.

I wouldn’t say spamming reflects is particularly challenging.

colesy.8490:

I wouldn’t say spamming reflects is particularly challenging.

Apparently it is. Why else would we have all the TAFU threads?

get it

I’m starting to think that people play this game just to stand in LA.That’s the only reasonable explanation. I mean, why in the seven hells would someone skip Kholer? (its an example, don’t get stuck here discussing this particular fight please) it’s one of the most fun fights in the game, just charge him up on his spot and fight without strategy. It has a bit of unpredictability (you never know which adds comes next), the fight is not long and any build or party combo works. But most people prefer to use swiftness/W. Really can’t understand it.

If you don’t like to fight mobs, then why do you play a game based on that? I don’t like to fight endless amounts of pointless trash either, but skipping the whole thing and stacking for bosses while spamming 1 isn’t my definition of fun or what I’d expect from a game in this particular genre.

Using AC again as an example, it has LOTS of champs inside.. what is the difference in fighting those champs and farming the ones outside? Is it really more fun (using the word fun instead of optimal since this is a game not a job) to spam 1 inside a zerg killing a champ you can barely see rather than charging this random champs inside a dungeon?

I always kill Kholer when doing AC. It’s like a kitten second fight in a decent team and it drops pretty good loot for the effort put in.

Never understood why people would skip him. Same goes for the Scavengers in the little hallway. Another champ loot bag for a 20s fight…

does anyone play dungeons like they were intended by designers?
Then why people complain about the lack of challenge?

Melandru #1 challenge

Dungeons are fine as they are.
You want to skip? Go ahead and skip.
You want to fight? Go ahead and fight.
Find like minded individuals and go at it together.

Chryzo.8906:

Mesket, skipping is hard, look at the number of ppl that can’t do it So it is actually the dungeon hard mode

And if they don’t allow skipping anymore maybe they should first fix the mobs ? (looking at you stupid ooze in arah for instance)

Sorry, just read this reply. No, skipping is very, VERY easy. There is no skill in pressing swiftness and the W key. Specially with a thief or Mesmer in the party.

Most of the users who can do COF in 5 minutes fail if you ask them to kill the mobs how it was “intended” (kill acolytes without climbing the rocks to loose aggro and endure the fight, or clear the bridge with the flamethrower NPC).

Mesket.5728:

Chryzo.8906:

Mesket, skipping is hard, look at the number of ppl that can’t do it So it is actually the dungeon hard mode

And if they don’t allow skipping anymore maybe they should first fix the mobs ? (looking at you stupid ooze in arah for instance)

Sorry, just read this reply. No, skipping is very, VERY easy. There is no skill in pressing swiftness and the W key. Specially with a thief or Mesmer in the party.

Would you like to come do Arah with us some time? I’d be mildly impressed if you didn’t go down once as a Mesmer on a any of the skips, without being baby sat by a thief. Not all skips are very difficult, most are pretty straight forward. Most of the Arah ones, however, require some fair knowledge of the enemies abilities and/or your own classes abilities. This of course is all redundant if you have a Thief to just cheese every skip. (Not that I have a problem with that, but it is a little less fun than #yolo’ing through everything).

Mesket.5728:

Most of the users who can do COF in 5 minutes fail if you ask them to kill the mobs how it was “intended” (kill acolytes without climbing the rocks to loose aggro and endure the fight, or clear the bridge with the flamethrower NPC).

Oh my Baphomet, are you an Anet dev, because you seem to know how fights were intended…

Oh wait, you don’t. I’m pretty sure that Anet actually intended people to lose aggro in between Acolyte spawns, why else would they have place so many ways to lose aggro there?

Same goes for skipping mobs in Arah, which they have admitted already was actually intended.

Stop pretending you know how stuff was intended and stop trying to force your way of playing a game on other people because you think you’re right and others are wrong. That’s called fascism.

get it

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

Mesket.5728:

Chryzo.8906:

Mesket, skipping is hard, look at the number of ppl that can’t do it So it is actually the dungeon hard mode

And if they don’t allow skipping anymore maybe they should first fix the mobs ? (looking at you stupid ooze in arah for instance)

Sorry, just read this reply. No, skipping is very, VERY easy. There is no skill in pressing swiftness and the W key. Specially with a thief or Mesmer in the party.

Would you like to come do Arah with us some time?

No thanks, I did all the needed Arah runs in the past. Armor and Dungeon Master tittle included. Also skipping and rushing things because that is probably the one dungeon where I think skipping pats is a good strategy (and you can say it was probably designed since you actually have pats to play spy with).

I’m talking about skipping events in dungeons like Kholer. People usually confuses ANet response “its ok” whith “Yes, that’s the best way to do it and what we had in mind when we spent hours programing it”.

It’s fine if people wants to rush things, of course, but I’ll go back to where I start: Why do you play a game based on fighting mobs if you don’t enjoy fighting mobs? (not talking to you in particular cookie, I’m saying it generalizing what you experience when you pug, leave closed guild groups aside since little people care what you do with your friends inside a dungeon).

Bright.9160:

Mesket.5728:

Most of the users who can do COF in 5 minutes fail if you ask them to kill the mobs how it was “intended” (kill acolytes without climbing the rocks to loose aggro and endure the fight, or clear the bridge with the flamethrower NPC).

Oh my Baphomet, are you an Anet dev, because you seem to know how fights were intended…

Oh wait, you don’t. I’m pretty sure that Anet actually intended people to lose aggro in between Acolyte spawns, why else would they have place so many ways to lose aggro there?

Same goes for skipping mobs in Arah, which they have admitted already was actually intended.

Stop pretending you know how stuff was intended and stop trying to force your way of playing a game on other people because you think you’re right and others are wrong. That’s called fascism.

get it

Sure Bright,.. Like they wanted people to climb rocks while defending Magg in CoF 2? Sure they didn’t fix that like a million times right?

Please… do some honor to your nick name. If you ever developed anything you’d know that everything placed there where you spend an extra hour doing it’s for something. Not talking about the trash mobs but many skipped events.

Do it if you want, ANet said it’s not exploiting or bugging; but it isn’t what they expected either, trust me.