Guild Wars 2

Zelyhn.8069:

Yeah I mean let’s face it. As an elem you can either:
-burst with FGS
-damage a lot and buff with LH, but requires to be carried
-damage decently and support with FA and focus

The first is good for speedkills mainly, the second is good for speedruns only, and the last is good for challenging content.

We can not do the three at the same time.

Yes I am emphasizing this a lot, because I don’t want any more nerfs for my beloved class (actually I want buffs, check my sig ).

Wrong on so many accounts. When we run eles, the usual cycle is to run in (scepter/dagger), cast Dragon’s Tooth, followed quickly by Ring of Fire and Phoenix for 2 blast finishers, then the warrior(s) run in and use Warhorn 5, and if you’re good you can squeeze in another Dragon’s tooth for a quick 15 might stacks, combined with FGJ (assuming 2 warriors, if 2 eles, it’s even more), that’s a quick 21 might stacks, at which point you drop Lightning Hammer, and the Guardian takes over the fire fields, which the ele then blasts to keep up 25 might stacks. So at most fights, the ele carries the first 5-10 seconds of the fight actually.

Good luck preaching to the people who actually know how to play at an organized level in PvE.

Bright.9160:

Zelyhn.8069:

Yeah I mean let’s face it. As an elem you can either:
-burst with FGS
-damage a lot and buff with LH, but requires to be carried
-damage decently and support with FA and focus

The first is good for speedkills mainly, the second is good for speedruns only, and the last is good for challenging content.

We can not do the three at the same time.

Yes I am emphasizing this a lot, because I don’t want any more nerfs for my beloved class (actually I want buffs, check my sig ).

Wrong on so many accounts. When we run eles, the usual cycle is to run in (scepter/dagger), cast Dragon’s Tooth, followed quickly by Ring of Fire and Phoenix for 2 blast finishers, then the warrior(s) run in and use Warhorn 5, and if you’re good you can squeeze in another Dragon’s tooth for a quick 15 might stacks, combined with FGJ (assuming 2 warriors, if 2 eles, it’s even more), that’s a quick 21 might stacks, at which point you drop Lightning Hammer, and the Guardian takes over the fire fields, which the ele then blasts to keep up 25 might stacks. So at most fights, the ele carries the first 5-10 seconds of the fight actually.

Good luck preaching to the people who actually know how to play at an organized level in PvE.

So you just described

-damage a lot and buff with LH, but requires to be carried

Dub.1273:

Zelyhn.8069:

Wow wow wow, how do you maintain 25 vuln as an elem??
Besides, if the elem is providing the fire field himself then he does not have the highest damage output of the game, he needs a guardian (or an engi…) for that.

Before conjuring LH just use a blast combo, aswell as before picking a new one up. Doesn’t really lower dps at all.
Also notice how i was talking of 5-25 stacks, not permanent 25.

Yes so you need to be in fire for that, which means that you won’t be in water for the next 8 to 13 seconds, so not 20% bonus damage for that time, so less damage.

Warrior and Guardian are the easiest ones to play and that won’t change, period.

The rest except necros are perfectly fine, and even for them the difference is not that noticeable.

Zelyhn.8069:

So you just described

-damage a lot and buff with LH, but requires to be carried

No.. I described how the ele carries the team’s Might stacks for the first 10 seconds of a fight.

Meaning an actually good ele doesn’t get carried, but pulls his own weight.

Reading comprehension.. What happened to it.

I think Anet could balance the classes simply by making damage not the end all be all.

Some ideas I have to fix this are

1: Add foes to dungeons that move fast/hit hard. They would need to be crippled/chilled/immobilized to be kept from hammering the group

2: Make all foes have some healing capabilities. Be it some health % per second, or an activated heal, so poison is wanted or interrupts to stop activated heals

3: Defiant kills interrupt CC builds, even though you can still “interrupt” the boss. I say remove defiant on bosses (keep 90% blind immunity) and change it so when a boss is hit by CC they gain like 10-15 seconds of Stability

4: Give some foes really high toughness, to make condition builds more wanted. Add high Vitality foes if needed for damage builds

5: Making skills that heal allies or other support effects, stronger but don’t make dungeons to where such healing or support is required. This is probably challenging, too much healing from a build and it could make everything easy mode but as it stands there’s not much need for extra healing to the group

6: Summon builds. Stuff like Necromancer Minions, Engineer Turrets, Mesmer Phantasms, and Guardian Spirit Weapon builds are left out in dungeons due to dying easy to AoE. Also these skills don’t usually bring the damage/support other skills can bring.

I think Anet should increase damage on certain ones, utility on others, and give Spirit Weapons/Phantasms/Minions/Turrets/etc. 50% AoE damage reduction either in PvE as a whole, or just in Dungeons.

Also an “Evade when creator evades” system would help too I think

1: Add foes to dungeons that move fast/hit hard. They would need to be crippled/chilled/immobilized to be kept from hammering the group

So the zerker group will just chain blinds and/or knockdowns and then DPS down.

2: Make all foes have some healing capabilities. Be it some health % per second, or an activated heal, so poison is wanted or interrupts to stop activated heals

Dredge have protection. Some bosses have regeneration. Zerker group will just burst until they drop, and if possible apply boon removal.

3: Defiant kills interrupt CC builds, even though you can still “interrupt” the boss. I say remove defiant on bosses (keep 90% blind immunity) and change it so when a boss is hit by CC they gain like 10-15 seconds of Stability

Null field, phantasmal disenchanter, and then spiky fruit, every encounter trivialised.

4: Give some foes really high toughness, to make condition builds more wanted. Add high Vitality foes if needed for damage builds

Because over 1 million HP on bosses isn’t high vitality? Groups do things like Bloomhunger at level 80 and he still dies … gradually.

5: Making skills that heal allies or other support effects, stronger but don’t make dungeons to where such healing or support is required. This is probably challenging, too much healing from a build and it could make everything easy mode but as it stands there’s not much need for extra healing to the group

But support effects are strong. And they are used extensively by organised groups.

6: Summon builds. Stuff like Necromancer Minions, Engineer Turrets, Mesmer Phantasms, and Guardian Spirit Weapon builds are left out in dungeons due to dying easy to AoE. Also these skills don’t usually bring the damage/support other skills can bring.

Mesmer phantasms are fine. They’re easily replaceable.

Evade when creator evades would make phantasms insane.

Yes yes I know I have a lot of trouble to comprehend what I read when I manage to read it. Me not so educated me sorry.

So pardon my ignorance, and consider this retort:
Do you apply your own vulnerability stacks?

I didn’t think so either. So you are being carried. Carried as in: your team mates enable you to do your damage. It’s just a technical term, no need to get all spiky about it

@Colesy

You’re probably right about the blinds, but I don’t think typical Zerker weapons have many Knockdowns. Those mobs could have rapid attacks or something like. Or the 90% Blind immunity.

As for the healing I mentioned, I didn’t mean a boon that could be removed (Though I would like to see mobs have more boons so boon removal builds are viable). The healing would also be pretty strong, not the Regeneration Boon levels unless it’s on certain trash mobs

Stability, yeah. I guess those boon removers + spiky fruit could be combined. They could instead gain something like Unstoppable for a period of time. Or maybe there’s a better answer

Good point on Bosses. Bosses/mobs probably all need their toughness increased

While some support skills are strong, you can’t really make a healing build. Engineer could bring Healing Turret, Bomb healing trait, and Elixir Gun, and spec for healing, but all of that healing is not worth the damage loss

Phantasms always seem to die quick like other summons, they can be summoned more often but still. I think the evade when creator evades would be fine for PvE considering how much survivability in this game is based on dodging

I know Zerker damage is the main issue but, I don’t want to nerf stuff when other things could be brought up to par.

You’re probably right about the blinds, but I don’t think typical Zerker weapons have many Knockdowns. Those mobs could have rapid attacks or something like. Or the 90% Blind immunity.

Say you have a group of four warriors and a mesmer. All warriors running the 30/0/0/10/30 build, axe/mace + greatsword. That’s four knockdowns altogether on mace 5. Mesmer using sword/pistol for an extra stun.

As for the healing I mentioned, I didn’t mean a boon that could be removed (Though I would like to see mobs have more boons so boon removal builds are viable). The healing would also be pretty strong, not the Regeneration Boon levels unless it’s on certain trash mobs

Effigy on CoF p1 has regeneration and still melts.

While some support skills are strong, you can’t really make a healing build. Engineer could bring Healing Turret, Bomb healing trait, and Elixir Gun, and spec for healing, but all of that healing is not worth the damage loss

You can’t make a healing build because ANet doesn’t want stupid buff bots who just afk fights while dropping burst heals when they see low HP bars.

Phantasms always seem to die quick like other summons, they can be summoned more often but still. I think the evade when creator evades would be fine for PvE considering how much survivability in this game is based on dodging

They can die quickly, but traited properly you can replace them quite quickly. If dodge when creator dodging interrupted their recharge I’d be vehemently opposed to it, but if not then well I can’t say I’d mind getting a buff.

I know Zerker damage is the main issue but, I don’t want to nerf stuff when other things could be brought up to par.

Zerker damage isn’t an issue.

Grok Krog.9581:

….

Also an “Evade when creator evades” system would help too I think

All good thoughts, but turrets can’t evade. Most of the non-ranger-main-pet NPCs in this game are just kittened.

None are balanced against their drawbacks. Turrets can’t move, but have equivalent HP to spirit weapons, without the benefits of following their creator.

Just my 2 cents:

1. Grenade Engies can stack and maintain 25 stacks of vuln pretty easy. Maybe not the best in the game at it, but top 2.

2. HGH (the self buff) has gone somewhat out of style in PvE (it was more a pvp workaround to low condition damage builds fwiw), with folks looking for more reliable consistent DPS without even MORE ground targeting. There is an excellent post about a zerk-bomber build generating warrior-level DPS.

3. Most game systems try to reward more difficult classes with higher DPS than the faceroll starter classes. GW2 seems to be the opposite, with easy mode being the highest consistent pay off and few exceptions, like the LH Ele.

3.5 Before someone says that a good deal of our DPS is ranged, I will just point out that our ranged option (Grenades) are all skill shots, and that would seem to balance out a bit of the good damage already. Compare to Barrage on Ranger, for instance, with a longer flight delay.

4. Someone mentioned group wide buffs, and we can, with some reliability pop some might on a group, and blast finish fire fields at regular intervals… but this doesn’t come close to banners, spirits, empower, et. cetera. Even if I were popping potions at everyone’s feet, the passives from War, Guards and Rangers would still be better.

5. Our Heal Turret functions as a bit of a group heal (~2.5k) and can be blasted (~1.2k) a few times pretty easy. It doesn’t scale well with heal power though, which is a hilariously bad stat for most professions anyway.

6. Defiant is not our friend, but when we NEED to CC a boss, a coordinated group with at least 1 engineer can pull off defiant stacks VERY quickly, and signal to the group that the boss is ready to be knocked back to the wall, stunned, etc. In the case of Mai Trin in the AB dungeon, a thief and I pulled off all her defiant in less than 10 seconds in anticipation of pulling her into the electric field. It was highly efficient, and made me kind of sad that I don’t get to play with these skills more.

In summary, my Engie main is the reason for my dungeon master title, but I still see the significant imbalance when I run dungeons on my Guardian, which literally facerolls things for more damage than I generate on a fully-buffed and specifically-geared engineer. When I call it “easy mode” in other threads, this isn’t to say that the people playing it are button-mashing the Eddy Gordo of GW2, but the difference between a good Guardian and a great Guardian is lost on most, since there is so much fudge-factor built into the profession.

You’re all posting in the wrong forum. Jon Sharp does the class balance and he dramatically favours the sPvP forums. If you want balance issues to see action, you need to bring up the issue in the sPvP forum. Everywhere else it may as well be invisible.

That interview with Colin was incredibly disheartening. It sounds like they don’t even give a kitten.

@colesy again.

You probably could chain stun them, but you can do that to trash already and you’d have to focus on keeping them stunned so they don’t destroy your group. Along with mobs in dungeons having higher toughness levels, I don’t think it would be as easy to melt through them if put in right. I think no matter what you do the elite of elite players will make everything too easy.

Yes, the Effigy in CoF path 1 has regeneration, but it was nerfed hard and isn’t that strong.

Not talking about just healing when health gets low, I mean making those skills (like Merciful Intervention) more useful. Untraited and at 0 healing power, that skill does 39.2 health per second. It’s just not useful. A cool down reduction could help this ability alot. Though you’d have to be careful so it doesn’t become too strong combined with the trait.

I don’t think it would reset their recharge. It would just be like a 1/2 second evade buff or something like that.

As for Zerker damage, everything seems to come back to it. I see many suggestions and people say “You could just damage through it with zerker”. Not sure how you would fix that exactly besides increasing mob toughness or lowering the damage of it, but I don’t want to see it nerfed.

I know my ideas aren’t fool proof, just some things I thought would help even if it was just a little bit

Zelyhn.8069:

Yes yes I know I have a lot of trouble to comprehend what I read when I manage to read it. Me not so educated me sorry.

So pardon my ignorance, and consider this retort:
Do you apply your own vulnerability stacks?

I didn’t think so either. So you are being carried. Carried as in: your team mates enable you to do your damage. It’s just a technical term, no need to get all spiky about it

Yes I do. 60% chance to cause vulnerability on crit, and when you’re critting 90+% of your hits, that’s pretty strong. Disregarding FGS, where you can apply 25 vuln in less than a second, the ele is still responsible for his own damage as much as other people in the team are.

At least the ele stacks might, fury and vulnerabality. If you think an ele is getting carried, take a look at the mesmer…

Bright.9160:

Zelyhn.8069:

Yes yes I know I have a lot of trouble to comprehend what I read when I manage to read it. Me not so educated me sorry.

So pardon my ignorance, and consider this retort:
Do you apply your own vulnerability stacks?

I didn’t think so either. So you are being carried. Carried as in: your team mates enable you to do your damage. It’s just a technical term, no need to get all spiky about it

Yes I do. 60% chance to cause vulnerability on crit, and when you’re critting 90+% of your hits, that’s pretty strong. Disregarding FGS, where you can apply 25 vuln in less than a second, the ele is still responsible for his own damage as much as other people in the team are.

At least the ele stacks might, fury and vulnerabality. If you think an ele is getting carried, take a look at the mesmer…

Only some ele’s stack vuln/fury, but yea. Idk, depends how you define ‘carry’. I’d say it gets carried because it can’t maintain its DPS by itself, but whether you want to add a negative connotation to that or not is personal choice.

Ok I see. I don’t add connotations, I am always a happy positive lad and I rejoice at the beauty of the world around me. So yes, I thought we were talking about a 30/20/x/20/x kind of build, which would make sense for speedrunning. Getting 25 in air with a build like 25/25/x/x/x only stacks vulnerability to 3.2 at best, so I figured people went for persisting flames instead with fire field provided by the group so that you don’t even have to swap out of water (swapping out is a big dps loss).
Perma fury for the group > 3 vulnerability, imho

Bright.9160:

Zelyhn.8069:

Yes yes I know I have a lot of trouble to comprehend what I read when I manage to read it. Me not so educated me sorry.

So pardon my ignorance, and consider this retort:
Do you apply your own vulnerability stacks?

I didn’t think so either. So you are being carried. Carried as in: your team mates enable you to do your damage. It’s just a technical term, no need to get all spiky about it

Yes I do. 60% chance to cause vulnerability on crit, and when you’re critting 90+% of your hits, that’s pretty strong. Disregarding FGS, where you can apply 25 vuln in less than a second, the ele is still responsible for his own damage as much as other people in the team are.

At least the ele stacks might, fury and vulnerabality. If you think an ele is getting carried, take a look at the mesmer…

I take great offence to that, sir.

Zelyhn.8069:

Ok I see. I don’t add connotations, I am always a happy positive lad and I rejoice at the beauty of the world around me. So yes, I thought we were talking about a 30/20/x/20/x kind of build, which would make sense for speedrunning. Getting 25 in air with a build like 25/25/x/x/x only stacks vulnerability to 3.2 at best, so I figured people went for persisting flames instead with fire field provided by the group so that you don’t even have to swap out of water (swapping out is a big dps loss).
Perma fury for the group > 3 vulnerability, imho

30/25/x/x/x
10 seconds of Fury with each blast finisher. So Dragon Tooth→Pheonix→Arcane Blast
→Earthquake if stacking might before an encounter/one LH blast if stacking might on the mobs theoretically gives 40 seconds of Fury at the start of combat (not to mention 12 stacks of might right off the bat), whether it actually gives you 40s or caps/bugs I’m not sure. If for whatever reason combat goes longer than that/said bugs or caps kick in then the Guardian has already taken over with a fire field to maintain might, thus replenishing Fury at the same time.

If stacking Ele’s I’d rather only one using this build because you sacrifice some valuable damage modifiers to get Persisting Flames and Weak Spot, but that Fury and Vuln (cough Fiery Greatsword cough) is glorious

30/25/x/x/x ?

What’s the point in the 25 in air if you are not going to take 20 in water?

Piercing Shards is an adept trait.

Wow now I feel dumb.

So the proper speedrun LH build would be 30/30/0/10/0?

Well I don’t mean to sound arrogant but you would still have to be “carried” (no connotation) to deal your damage: if you do the might stacking rotation between each use of the hammer than you are locked out of water for 13s (13 / 30 * 0.2 = 9% less damage), so it would be better to always remain in water and have the group provide the fire fields.
But you could argue that the loss in damage is insignificant compared to the value of the might and fury stacking that the rotation provides.

Anyway I need to hide in my cave for a while now and reflect on my future.

30/10/10/20 should be higher deeps if the rest of the party takes care of all the vuln though, right?

Depends if you can get perma fury with just 1 warrior.

Broadicea.8294:

30/10/10/20 should be higher deeps if the rest of the party takes care of all the vuln though, right?

Not really:
Going from 30 in air to 10 brings your crit modifier down form 2.76 to 2.41 (air attributes, hammer attibutes, discipline banner, sigil of fire, fury, zerker, scholar) wich is a 13% dps loss. Compared to the 10% earth provides, it is not a gain.
And these are just the stats, if we take the 10% bonus crit damage from the air trait line on casting arcane spell then the difference is even higher.

So I guess the best build would be 30/20/10/10/10, if I am not mistaken.
(crit modifier of 2.58, -7% damage from air, 10% from earth to compensate)

Edit: or 30/20/20/10/0 for serrated stones

Zelyhn.8069:

But you could argue that the loss in damage is insignificant compared to the value of the might and fury stacking that the rotation provides.

Exactly. The whole sense in going 30 into fire and 25 in air is to take care of might stacks and vuln in a non optimize party. If your party is already able to maintain fury, you’d go something like 10/25/10/25/0.

I believe the highest dps ele is 25/0/25/20/0? But you leave vuln and fury to other members of the group or a second ele.

Zelyhn.8069:

Not really:
Going from 30 in air to 10 brings your crit modifier down form 2.76 to 2.41

More like from (1+0.8*1.75) to (1+0.71*1.55).
But you are right, you can’t take out much point of air, it’s the most important trait line for stats, sometimes even better than adding more amplifiers.

@spoj: In theory 20/0/25/25/0 would be highest dps. But you mostlikely won’t even meet all requirements in very specialized fights.

spoj.9672:

I believe the highest dps ele is 25/0/25/20/0? But you leave vuln and fury to other members of the group or a second ele.

0/25/25/20 is better because of the stats, modifiers, and because of the 10% bonus crit damage on arcane spell cast

@Dub: Yeah I guessed as much. You probably wouldnt ever take it for a normal run. Is conjurer a must have or do you find that for most runs you have enough charges without it?

Dub.1273:

Zelyhn.8069:

Not really:
Going from 30 in air to 10 brings your crit modifier down form 2.76 to 2.41

More like from (1+0.8*1.75) to (1+0.71*1.55).
But you are right, you can’t take out much point of air, it’s the most important trait line for stats, sometimes even better than adding more amplifiers.

Unless I missed something:
- air: 300 precision / 30 cd
- banner: 170 preci / 15 cd
- hammer: 180 preci / 5 cd
-scholar: 3 + 5 cd
You get 70% crit chance and 178% crit damage (including base)
- signet of fire: 9% crit chance
- fury: 20% crit chance
Total crit chance is 99%

Edit: with 728 preci and 70 cd from gear

Lol, i forgot to take fury into account.

Nevertheless: 25/0/25/20/0 or 20/0/25/25/0 are “better” than 0/25/25/20/0.

Welcome to my cave!

Dub.1273:

Lol, i forgot to take fury into account.

Nevertheless: 25/0/25/20/0 or 20/0/25/25/0 are “better” than 0/25/25/20/0.

Better because of conjurer?

Better because of trait amplifiers.

am i the only to see conjured weapons as an excuse to not balance ele?

I’m sure that people rolling elementalists never expected their gameplay to swing a hammer with autoattack.

Is it fun?

Same could be said about all classes being forced into certain builds/weapons to be optimal in dungeons.

Dagger necro gets boring, but atleast aoe comboing trash is fun. Axe warrior is really boring. Sword guardian is boring. Most classes get boring when the highest dps is from just auto attacking.

I am not that sure:
compare 25/0/25/20/0 to 0/25/25/20/0 :
Crit modifier drops to 2.25 from 2.76 (same optimal conditions as before)
You gain 300 power
You gain two 0.05 amplifiers
I find a final damage gain of 2%

But also you loose 20% damage on targets with less than 33% hp, and you loose the 10% crit damage on arcane cast, which I did not include in my calculation.

_

Edit: actually I misread my result, the final change is a 2% damage drop !
@LordByron: Yes, I find that it is a poordev’s fix to the elem potency, and it is boring as hell. That’s why I have suggestions in my sig (hint!)

Edit2: actually you gain 250 power … I need an other coffee. So the damage drop is 3.3% (under 25 might and bloodlust)
So to sum up, 0/25/25/20/0 is 3.3% better + bolt to the heart and 10% cd on arcane cast

Bolt to the heart is about a 6.6% damage boost overall. Amplifiers stack multiplicatively.

And I find 20/0/25/25/0 with 9 boons to be 0.7% worse than 0/25/25/20/0, again before bolt to the heart and bonus to cd,

Forget all my previous results, I did an other mistake: the crit modifier goes down to 2.24 from 2.67 (and not 2.76).
So compared to 0/25/25/20/0,
- 25/0/25/20/0 is the same
- 20/0/25/25/0 is 2.7% better
But this is before bolt to the heart and arcane lightning, so in the end you loose damge.

Zelyhn.8069:

So the proper speedrun LH build would be 30/30/0/10/0?

Well I don’t mean to sound arrogant but you would still have to be “carried” (no connotation) to deal your damage: if you do the might stacking rotation between each use of the hammer than you are locked out of water for 13s (13 / 30 * 0.2 = 9% less damage), so it would be better to always remain in water and have the group provide the fire fields.
But you could argue that the loss in damage is insignificant compared to the value of the might and fury stacking that the rotation provides.

Anyway I need to hide in my cave for a while now and reflect on my future.

I can’t speak for other Ele’s using similar builds, but I never switch out of water mid combat for that exact reason, getting locked out of +20% damage. So I really depend on the Guardian dropping a fire field so I can get off multiple Thunderclaps + Arcane Blast to maintain Fury and Might for longer encounters.

Also I don’t see how any ‘DPS’ build could stay true without Conjurer, the amount of LH down time would be far too much of a DPS loss IMO. Though seeing the crazy maths you guys are putting into this I’m clearly out of my league here :|

Nono, you are right, I am quite convinced that conjurer is essential here
Time of hammer per use without conjurer: 14s
Time of hammer per use with conjurer: 23.5s
It’s not bolt to the heart and arcane lightning that will make up for that difference.

spoj.9672:

Same could be said about all classes being forced into certain builds/weapons to be optimal in dungeons.

Dagger necro gets boring, but atleast aoe comboing trash is fun. Axe warrior is really boring. Sword guardian is boring. Most classes get boring when the highest dps is from just auto attacking.

wait…
Other professions doesn t give up their core mechanics (attunements) in order to spam the autoattack of another profession.

LordByron.8369:

spoj.9672:

Same could be said about all classes being forced into certain builds/weapons to be optimal in dungeons.

Dagger necro gets boring, but atleast aoe comboing trash is fun. Axe warrior is really boring. Sword guardian is boring. Most classes get boring when the highest dps is from just auto attacking.

wait…
Other professions doesn t give up their core mechanics (attunements) in order to spam the autoattack of another profession.

What other profession have access to LH if not picking it up from the ground? Just because guardians and warriors can use hammers doesn’t means ele’s LH is the same thing, LH is an elementalist mechanic.

Well ok Ill bite. Warriors only save their burst for the end of the fight. Necro’s only flash DS or save it for defense. Mesmers dont shatter. Thieves dont steal? Only classes that really get to keep using their class mechanic in dps builds are engi, guardian and ranger. But they arent exactly very exciting class mechanics.

why is everybody so hung up on the % damage modifiers? it’s not like a 2k hit would do 2.2k with 20% more damage, it’s more like 2.05k afterwards. those percentage modifiers never seem to do as much as they advertise, if you test it with steady weapons on a dummy. or do they work in pve with normal weapons?

If i’m not mistaken these modifiers affect the base damage, so the % ends up bumping critical hits big time.

I just tested in PvP with steady weapons and modifiers work as expected

spoj.9672:

Well ok Ill bite. Warriors only save their burst for the end of the fight. Necro’s only flash DS or save it for defense. Mesmers dont shatter. Thieves dont steal? Only classes that really get to keep using their class mechanic in dps builds are engi, guardian and ranger. But they arent exactly very exciting class mechanics.

Well, not speaking for all Engineers, but I save my tool belt skills for appropriate times, since they are more often than not utilitarian, and not unlike the right side of the skill bar, and shouldn’t just be rotated as they come up.