Kromica.2831 because it takes time to fix a bug and make sure it’s working when hundreds of thousands of people are playing it. I’m sure it will be fixed very soon. Then we can have this conversation again when it is working properly.
Like the time they should have taken fixing dungeons instead of making a DR system that they also not took the time to test?
I’ll repeat for the 100th time, I think they know that their DR system works, but currently there is a bug that is forcing harsh DRs on everyone. Wait until it is fixed, and THEN you can complain more effectively. At the moment this is all speculation.
Having a DR is exactly what ’doesn’t work’. Lets look back at a GW1 situation. Cobalt Mokele’s were being solo farmed too easily. What did they do? They added Cobalt Scabaras – mesmers with the relevant abilities to defeat solo farmers. That was a just response to solving an issue they had a problem with.
They could have provided a bandaid solution then too – remove the drops from the Cobalt Mokele’s completely, which is not different to what the DR is doing now.
Maybe you guys should just go ahead and implement a lockout timer to prevent people from even entering a dungeon if x number of paths have been cleared within x amount of time like other MMO’s (WoW for example) have in place.
The other possibility, of course, is to set a weekly cap on how many tokens you can earn (again similar to what WoW does) or how many you can have total.
It might end up being less of a headache in the long run than the diminishing returns system on tokens you currently have going. People might not like it, but it’s been done in the past by other games and people have accepted it.
Edited for clarification.
(edited by Rpgtabbycat.5869)
i just did CoF path 2 two hours ago, 60 tokens
did CoF path 3 10 mins ago, 45 tokens
im doing path 1 now, can u explain to me what happened?
why am I beinf punished?
i dont see anyone can complete a dungeon within 10 minutes
Why a system always punishing the wrong people is not removed for 5 days or so?
@kipz well I really don’t know if it affects me at the moment anyway, since the system is bugged, so we shall see, and then if it does, maybe I will complain
@Skyrant saying that A-net are acting with ignorance and childish behavior doesn’t really make the game any better
i just did CoF path 2 two hours ago, 60 tokens
did CoF path 3 10 mins ago, 45 tokens
im doing path 1 now, can u explain to me what happened?
why am I beinf punished?i dont see anyone can complete a dungeon within 10 minutes
Why a system always punishing the wrong people is not removed for 5 days or so?
I did TA 1st path = 20 tokens, then 2nd path and got 30 tokens. First two runs of the day.
Explain that one :P
@kKagari.6804 yes, there are better solutions, I actually think they should keep the token reward constant, it doesn’t really matter that much, I only think they care about the money that is being earned. They also probably want people to not burn out on dungeons and never playing them again.
But say I say, it’s fine at the moment for me, I can do 3 dungeon paths in less than 2 hours a day for a week and get enough tickets for a full set of armor, the DR system shouldn’t prevent this
Plain and simple this system is a safety net for stopping crazy farming when people find exploits that make each run super fast. We are also addressing those loopholes, but that takes time and new ones might always be discovered. If you and your group do the dungeons without skipping large sections and run different chains this system shoul(bugs aside) never impact you.
Addendum for clarity, super fast means < 30 minutes, and even then you must hit that speed multiple times in a row before you start seeing any impact.
@ref
You sound too optimistic and you sound like an Anet ambassador, but please do not sound like you know everything because there are us who are greatly affected.
And yes, my guild is one of those who clear those explore modes in 30 mins. Not all paths, but definitely some of them.
I think its meant to prevent people from slogging thru and getting burnt out.
Plus they want to avoid inflation in the ingame economy.
Restrictions are never a good idea, every MMO that tried it has received a huge backlash and we see the same happening here right now.
Have you looked at the in game economy? It’s completely broken already. Prices are 1c above vendor for all drops.
The ill-conceived cooking patch flooded the market with 2c butter and chocolate. Then they try to recover with an exclusive temporary recipe for the forge alienating most players that did not get that item. Now we are back at 2c butter and chocolate within less than 48 hours.
These people are clueless on how to run a MMO, thats all there is to it.
@ref
You sound too optimistic and you sound like an Anet ambassador, but please do not sound like you know everything because there are us who are greatly affected.
And yes, my guild is one of those who clear those explore modes in 30 mins. Not all paths, but definitely some of them.
well I’m saying that at the moment I know nothing, and nobody else does either, so just wait for the bug to be fixed.
i just did CoF path 2 two hours ago, 60 tokens
did CoF path 3 10 mins ago, 45 tokens
im doing path 1 now, can u explain to me what happened?
why am I beinf punished?i dont see anyone can complete a dungeon within 10 minutes
Why a system always punishing the wrong people is not removed for 5 days or so?
Just finished CoF path 1, still 45 token, sigh
I think its meant to prevent people from slogging thru and getting burnt out.
Plus they want to avoid inflation in the ingame economy.
Restrictions are never a good idea, every MMO that tried it has received a huge backlash and we see the same happening here right now.
Have you looked at the in game economy? It’s completely broken already. Prices are 1c above vendor for all drops.
The ill-conceived cooking patch flooded the market with 2c butter and chocolate. Then they try to recover with an exclusive temporary recipe for the forge alienating most players that did not get that item. Now we are back at 2c butter and chocolate within less than 48 hours.
These people are clueless on how to run a MMO, thats all there is to it.
what do you mean prices are 1c above vendor?
@kipz well I really don’t know if it affects me at the moment anyway, since the system is bugged, so we shall see, and then if it does, maybe I will complain
@Skyrant saying that A-net are acting with ignorance and childish behavior doesn’t really make the game any better
I have offered plenty of solutions in threads as to how to fix the exploit problem. Other people have suggested great solutions as well. All of them do not involve penalizing the players but making it harder and still rewarding to obtain the rewards.
What we get instead is a system that penalized players and tries to dictate how they want people play their game.
That is simply a recipe for disaster.
Plain and simple this system is a safety net for stopping crazy farming when people find exploits that make each run super fast. We are also addressing those loopholes, but that takes time and new ones might always be discovered. If you and your group do the dungeons without skipping large sections and run different chains this system shoul(bugs aside) never impact you.
This makes me feel a bit better, knowing that once the system is fully ironed out and working properly it won’t hurt us normal dungeon enjoying players. I run dungeons very often and usually quite fast with good groups. I have been in parties that skipped mobs before but I don’t like to and haven’t done it very often. As you work on fixing the system, please take into consideration players like me who do like running dungeons (different paths of different dungeons) over and over back to back. Right now I am pretty sure I have the giant DR issues just based on the fact that I like to play through dungeons very frequently. Running dungeons fast doesn’t mean I’m exploiting, and running them alot in a short amount of time doesn’t mean I’m exploiting either. Find a way to discover the exploiters skipping content without hurting players in a similar situation to me. So keep up the good work and I look forward to the day the system is working as intended!
I think its meant to prevent people from slogging thru and getting burnt out.
Plus they want to avoid inflation in the ingame economy.
Restrictions are never a good idea, every MMO that tried it has received a huge backlash and we see the same happening here right now.
Have you looked at the in game economy? It’s completely broken already. Prices are 1c above vendor for all drops.
The ill-conceived cooking patch flooded the market with 2c butter and chocolate. Then they try to recover with an exclusive temporary recipe for the forge alienating most players that did not get that item. Now we are back at 2c butter and chocolate within less than 48 hours.
These people are clueless on how to run a MMO, thats all there is to it.
what do you mean prices are 1c above vendor?
Many items currently posted on the trading post are listed for sale at 1 copper over the vending price. This means that the seller is taking a loss. There is a fee for posting the item on the Trading Post and then another fee for when it is sold. Ideally people should sell things for no less than double the vendor price so you at least make a profit. By selling at 1 copper over vendor, you are making less (about 15% less) than you would have if you sold it to the vendor.
People are assuming that it’s the botters that are putting them up on the trading post but I’m wondering if it might be a flaw in the trading post with the sale value suggestion. I think people just aren’t paying attention and are just clicking to sell.
@Rpgtabbycat
I see, although couldn’t the seller just raise the price? well, yeh it does seem like a bug, it shouln’t allow that anyway…off topic
This 30 minute ‘benchmark’ is another factor to the ill-conceived design of the DR. I’d like to invite anyone out there to make a video of a ‘legit’ dungeon run in less than 30 minutes. Clearly if a group of people can do a ‘legit’ run in under 30 minutes, then the benchmark for this ‘safety net’ should be lower, because at that point, you are penalizing people who are just ‘good at the game’.
The other thing is, if you didn’t want people to run through a dungeon, maybe you should’ve increased the mob leash distance? Add doors? Don’t let people do things which you’ve allowed them to do and call it an exploit.
@Rpgtabbycat
I see, although couldn’t the seller just raise the price? well, yeh it does seem like a bug, it shouln’t allow that anyway…off topic
The seller could raise the price but there’s already 300 items listed at 1 copper over vendor. So their item is not going to get sold because people will always buy at the cheapest price.
Sorry for taking this off topic but it is a big problem that Anet needs to look into.
47 hours ago before the patch I ran the TA explorable up path twice for the standard 30 and 20 tokens each, taking ~30 mins each run as standard.
39 hours ago I did the TA explorable forward-up path taking 1 hour and the rewards were fine at 60 tokens.
10 hours after that (29 hours ago), within the same ‘day’, I did the forward-forward path taking around 50 minutes and got 60 tokens then redid the forward-up path to help my friend and the PuG out taking around 40 mins and that’s when the DR really hit me I think,
15 hours ago, got 60, 45 and 30 tokens doing the forward-forward, forward-up and then up path in the order of difficulty taking just over 1 hour, around 40 minutes and 30 minutes all together around 2 hours and a half. (It was really enjoyable though, I only died twice [at the hounds beyond the f-f portal archers room and then at the geyser bees since I didn’t go far enough and stopped to chat] and the PuG group worshipped my leadership skills.) Thinking back now if I knew the system was like this I should have done up, forward-forward and forward-up but I’m unwilling to risk my rewards at all doing this until the DR is fixed.
Overall, I ‘lost’ a significant amount time-wise compared to those in the PuG who never seemed to have ran much dungeons pre-patch and I feel that really punishes the regular dungeon-runners who have been loyal to doing their dungeons properly and in reasonable time, who already received less rewards running the dungeons back then and are receiving less now. The only advantage we do have is the experience but that in turn benefits the PuGs we help more than us which feels really unfair since we had to learn all the dungeon mechanics and suffer repair bills right from the start, and the happy feeling you get doesn’t really mask the blatant slap-in-the-face reward due to DR enough.
I still love TA explorable though and will just be doing easy up-path as this bug encourages and ignore the rest till it’s fixed >.>
(edited by zencow.3651)
I’m not sure why Peters keeps on saying it’s not punishing. If you get good at dungeons and you start running them in less then 30 minutes each then you get DR….That’s a punishment. Being efficient at a game is the whole point. It’s not fun when you have to spend hours doing 1 dungeon just to find out at the end you have DR because it’s bugged. So how about removing it until you guys actually figure it out completely?
I haven’t played in over a week do to this kitten.
Plain and simple this system is a safety net for stopping crazy farming when people find exploits that make each run super fast. We are also addressing those loopholes, but that takes time and new ones might always be discovered. If you and your group do the dungeons without skipping large sections and run different chains this system shoul(bugs aside) never impact you.
Addendum for clarity, super fast means < 30 minutes, and even then you must hit that speed multiple times in a row before you start seeing any impact.
This patch is like Anet tell everyone to play Anet style. if you want coin you must follow our rule. this is not like games anymore. games should be i can play whatever i like. with this system. if i finish dungeon in “normal time” i can get 60 tokens. if i want doing again even in normal time. i got 20 tokens. thats kinda suck… if you want to make a safety net. make it at least people can farm 3-5 times before DR system kick in. im a focus person. if i want a set gear of dungeon. i want to farm it. than anything else. when you patch with DR system. this makes me boring…
I’m not sure why Peters keeps on saying it’s not punishing. If you get good at dungeons and you start running them in less then 30 minutes each then you get DR….That’s a punishment. Being efficient at a game is the whole point. It’s not fun when you have to spend hours doing 1 dungeon just to find out at the end you have DR because it’s bugged. So how about removing it until you guys actually figure it out completely?
I haven’t played in over a week do to this kitten.
That is not a punishment. That is a joke.
It stops exploits bla bla read other thread. Exploiters need this restriction or it actually gives them reason to keep exploiting.
It stops exploits bla bla read other thread. Exploiters need this restriction or it actually gives them reason to keep exploiting.
NO! Exploits need to be FIXED not the whole playing community punished with an ill-conceived system that does NOTHING to remedy the initial problem.
Fix the Exploits and stop punishing players that do not exploit!
Most exploits are probably really easy to fix, like giving monster groups and bosses invulnerability until other parts of the dungeon are finished. Or better even dont make them spawn before they are supposed to be killed.
WoW has (or had, when i still played it) one week raid-lockouts and no one complained about those.
WoW has (or had, when i still played it) one week raid-lockouts and no one complained about those.
The difference is that WoW’s lockout isn’t hampering the player for being good at the game. Nor were they not addressing an exploit, and instead, punishing other players that aren’t exploiting.
You see, with a lockout, it applies to everyone. You do the raid once, you’re done, just like any other person. But here, if you are simply better at the game than someone else, or you devote more time to the game than someone else, you are not rewarded for it.
Plain and simple this system is a safety net for stopping crazy farming when people find exploits that make each run super fast. We are also addressing those loopholes, but that takes time and new ones might always be discovered. If you and your group do the dungeons without skipping large sections and run different chains this system shoul(bugs aside) never impact you.
Addendum for clarity, super fast means < 30 minutes, and even then you must hit that speed multiple times in a row before you start seeing any impact.
I’m pretty annoyed after all the press you guys put out pre-launch like the MMO Manifesto that this is how this game ends up. You’re not putting restrictions on botters and exploiters, you’re putting restrictions on players. It’s shocking to me to think that this game that was all about fun turns out to be more about wondering if you’re doing it right. Did I run that dungeon too fast? Did I kill too many of those? What to the developers want me to do here?
Do you honestly think that’s fun for people? Checking a clock while they are running dungeons to make sure they’re going slow enough? You make explore modes hard, purposely difficult to pug, then if a group is actually able to pull it off you punish them. What are you people thinking? You punish the average player that has no interest in practicing to become an expert MMO player by making 3/4 of your dungeon content unpuggable and you also punish the guy that did take the time to become an expert and got through your little challenge. Who do you think wants to play in a game where you can’t win? If the mobs don’t kill you, Arena Net will by withholding the reward you are due.
I wish you would have said in your manifesto that this is how it would be, because I wouldn’t have bought your game.
Plain and simple this system is a safety net for stopping crazy farming when people find exploits that make each run super fast. We are also addressing those loopholes, but that takes time and new ones might always be discovered. If you and your group do the dungeons without skipping large sections and run different chains this system shoul(bugs aside) never impact you.
Addendum for clarity, super fast means < 30 minutes, and even then you must hit that speed multiple times in a row before you start seeing any impact.
I’m pretty annoyed after all the press you guys put out pre-launch like the MMO Manifesto that this is how this game ends up. You’re not putting restrictions on botters and exploiters, you’re putting restrictions on players. It’s shocking to me to think that this game that was all about fun turns out to be more about wondering if you’re doing it right. Did I run that dungeon too fast? Did I kill too many of those? What to the developers want me to do here?
Do you honestly think that’s fun for people? Checking a clock while they are running dungeons to make sure they’re going slow enough? You make explore modes hard, purposely difficult to pug, then if a group is actually able to pull it off you punish them. What are you people thinking? You punish the average player that has no interest in practicing to become an expert MMO player by making 3/4 of your dungeon content unpuggable and you also punish the guy that did take the time to become an expert and got through your little challenge. Who do you think wants to play in a game where you can’t win? If the mobs don’t kill you, Arena Net will by withholding the reward you are due.
I wish you would have said in your manifesto that this is how it would be, because I wouldn’t have bought your game.
Oh and don’t forget, buying what you aren’t supposed to buy from vendors.
I hope this gets fixed soon. Over 3/4s of my guild has quit the game and of those that do still play they don’t even touch their lev 80s. They are all now playing alts or only do spvp.
I myself just did my first ever CM explore and only got 45 tokens. One guy in my group only got 15.
+1 to Nemui
I love all the nerd ragers in here screaming “How dare they make it so I get punished for clearing content too quickly!”. When in other games, if you clear it quickly, it means you have to wait even longer to even be able to enter (only by hours, but still).
So that company is saying, you can only run this dungeon once a week per toon. Too bad, so sad.
If you run too many dungeons in a certain time in WoW, you can’t even enter for like an hour.
Yet when Arena.Net implements a system to limit the amount of tokens people get in a certain time frame to prevent farming, people get mad. You can still run the dungeon. You can still ENTER the dungeon. And if you’re clearing an explorable in under 30 mins, its either not hard enough, or you’re exploiting, imo. These dungeons aren’t supposed to be easy, loot pinatas that you can complete in 20 minutes.
Arena.Net is not trying to punish the players who are good. They are trying to punish those who find exploits within the dungeons. If people weren’t so mad all the time and think with a level head, they would understand that the DR will not apply to them if they are doing the dungeon legitimately.
@tribeca The patch is only new. Not even 2 days old. Give them time to fix the bugs. That patch should be coming 1/10.
@Kelthos Doombringer
You obviously never played GW1. The 2 MAIN dungeons, The Underworld and Fissure Of Woe, were made extremely difficult. You were looking at 2 hours with a PuG group if you were lucky. Players got better and found ways to beat the dungeons quicker you were looking at 30 minutes or less, no exploiting just using the skills that ArenaNet provided us.
They never ONCE punished the players for getting good at those 2 dungeons, they ended up adding things here and there yes but it wasn’t anything to punish them it was to stop people from getting bored. It still took under 30 minutes but it became more fun and interesting.
What ArenaNet has done now is completely uncalled for and they have already lost a kitten load of people. DR isn’t even working right, you have people getting DR even though it’s the first time they ever ran the dungeon.
If anything I would PREFER them to make it to where you can only do the dungeon weekly to get the tokens then I feel like it’s actually worth putting the effort into for a day and then I won’t have to worry about it for another week.
@Kelthos Doombringer
You obviously never played GW1. The 2 MAIN dungeons, The Underworld and Fissure Of Woe, were made extremely difficult. You were looking at 2 hours with a PuG group if you were lucky. Players got better and found ways to beat the dungeons quicker you were looking at 30 minutes or less, no exploiting just using the skills that ArenaNet provided us.They never ONCE punished the players for getting good at those 2 dungeons, they ended up adding things here and there yes but it wasn’t anything to punish them it was to stop people from getting bored. It still took under 30 minutes but it became more fun and interesting.
What ArenaNet has done now is completely uncalled for and they have already lost a kitten load of people. DR isn’t even working right, you have people getting DR even though it’s the first time they ever ran the dungeon.
If anything I would PREFER them to make it to where you can only do the dungeon weekly to get the tokens then I feel like it’s actually worth putting the effort into for a day and then I won’t have to worry about it for another week.
No need to care to that guy man, Mr. Kelthos DoomBringer will only choose some post or reply that positive to the ANet. And of course, he will not looking on the fact: “They created bugs to prevent normal playing. And they made 75 dungeon harder than 80 dungeon and just tell you they will fix it with their keyboard.”
I had replied to his discuss points yesterday about the bugs, he haven’t reply me. Due to I am telling the truth that he cannot support ANet as a fanboy.
@Freky
I did play GW1. For several years, on and off. But guess what, buddy? This isn’t Guild Wars 1! It’s Guild Wars 2~!
Completely different game. The people who wanted to stay in GW2 have stayed. Those who were waiting for another game, have left.
Guild Wars 2 is also a new game, with features consistently being added to prevent farmers, bots etc for getting what they want. So what if the DR isn’t working properly at the moment? Complex coding, things go wrong.
Yea its annoying when things don’t go your way, but then again, 90% of the posters on this forum are people who are mad that things didn’t go their way.
And tell me, sir. How are you being punished if you are completing the dungeon in roughly the time that Arena.Net intended? Again, the DR system will only ever affect you if you complete the path in under 30 minutes. Its obvious Arena.Net didn’t intend for players to finish it that quickly, so what’s the issue?
What a pleasant surprise for working people, we just have to twiddle our thumbs while our precious time slips away.
When are they going to release a cash shop item that completely bypasses the diminishing returns system? That’s literally the only thing missing from the equation.
NO! Exploits need to be FIXED not the whole playing community punished with an ill-conceived system that does NOTHING to remedy the initial problem.
Fix the Exploits and stop punishing players that do not exploit!
Agreed players cannot exploit what does not exist.
Although this might take longer to implement it is the rock solid way of fixing the core problem.
Also a PTR could catch the majority of the big exploits before they hit live servers.
Addendum for clarity, super fast means < 30 minutes, and even then you must hit that speed multiple times in a row before you start seeing any impact.
20min seems like a more appropiate #. I don’t want to have to start telling my friends wait we cant kill this last guy til our MF food buff wears off….
(edited by Fluffycalico.2715)
@Freky
I did play GW1. For several years, on and off. But guess what, buddy? This isn’t Guild Wars 1! It’s Guild Wars 2~!
Completely different game. The people who wanted to stay in GW2 have stayed. Those who were waiting for another game, have left.
Guild Wars 2 is also a new game, with features consistently being added to prevent farmers, bots etc for getting what they want. So what if the DR isn’t working properly at the moment? Complex coding, things go wrong.
Yea its annoying when things don’t go your way, but then again, 90% of the posters on this forum are people who are mad that things didn’t go their way.And tell me, sir. How are you being punished if you are completing the dungeon in roughly the time that Arena.Net intended? Again, the DR system will only ever affect you if you complete the path in under 30 minutes. Its obvious Arena.Net didn’t intend for players to finish it that quickly, so what’s the issue?
Great supporting, Mr. Kelthos Doombringer. Did you know what is “Project Management”? If you don’t know, no problem, just ask and someone will answer you.
" Yea its annoying when things don’t go your way, but then again, 90% of the posters on this forum are people who are mad that things didn’t go their way. "
What are the groups of people that the word “your” mean? Is it include Mr. JonPeters? and Mr. Robert Hrouda? Both of them said their DR system isn’t go on the way they want, are they mad too?
What the hell that a professional software development team that provided a bugged system to replace a normal system? Its horrible in IT world! If the system not working properly, why not take it down and rollback to old one? This is a common sense in developing!
“Again, the DR system will only ever affect you if you complete the path in under 30 minutes.” Sorry, fanboy. The truth is DR system is affect the guys who haven’t play dungeons several days. My guild members fighting for our world in WvW a few days. About 3 to 4 days. Then he got a team to the dungeon and get 15 tokens of this run. Why? How? WTH of the DR system doing? Could you please answer me?
Close the eyes and just keep “ANet is doing right” in mind is just Brainwashing. Face to the fact!
@Melfice: Because Programming is Hard, especially with software as complex as a real-time MMO, and there’s no amount of testing that equates to a hundred thousand people hitting it at the same time.
And a rollback would likely also eliminate several of the bug fixes that they’ve also rolled out with these patches. Do the people stuck on their storyline and wanting to continue not merit the same attention as those doing dungeons? Necromancers with a issue list a mile long?
Yes, it’s buggy. No, it’s not ok. But it’s not as simple as flipping a switch and being done with it; if it was, you bet they would have so they can get to designing new stuff. Anet’s got a good track record by me, I’m sure they’re doing everything they can.
I think what a lot of people are saying, is that these problems have arisen due to an ill conceived system, created as an ill conceived solution.
Lets think back to the facts:
DR was created so people can’t speedrun dungeons.
Dungeons were spedrun via exploits.
Look at the above two statements and tell me, shouldn’t they have just fixed the exploit in the first place? Bugs aside from the DR system, it actually opens a can of worms where some players are running the dungeon just under the 30 minute mark, because they are efficient, and getting penalized for it.
@Melfice: Because Programming is Hard, especially with software as complex as a real-time MMO, and there’s no amount of testing that equates to a hundred thousand people hitting it at the same time.
And a rollback would likely also eliminate several of the bug fixes that they’ve also rolled out with these patches. Do the people stuck on their storyline and wanting to continue not merit the same attention as those doing dungeons? Necromancers with a issue list a mile long?
Yes, it’s buggy. No, it’s not ok. But it’s not as simple as flipping a switch and being done with it; if it was, you bet they would have so they can get to designing new stuff. Anet’s got a good track record by me, I’m sure they’re doing everything they can.
Right, it’s hard, I am working in IT field too. But please know that: we are customers. Providing bugs to prevent customers to use the products is the road to die. Project Management telling us we need to control the needs of customers. Let them know what they can and cannot do on the system. Prevent customers’ works that they work normally in past MUST HAVE GREAT REASONS, for instance, critical risk is issued. Otherwise, DON’T TRY!
Plain and simple this system is a safety net for stopping crazy farming when people find exploits that make each run super fast. We are also addressing those loopholes, but that takes time and new ones might always be discovered. If you and your group do the dungeons without skipping large sections and run different chains this system shoul(bugs aside) never impact you.
Addendum for clarity, super fast means < 30 minutes, and even then you must hit that speed multiple times in a row before you start seeing any impact.
Many of us like to play this way; Multiple runs of the same instance in order to farm tokens. This DR system discourages persistence and encourages casual flings with dungeons here and there, leaving us with little of interest to do between’cool downs’ on this system. I’m no master craftsman or rare item hunter, I don’t care for those methods of obtaining items. I like to farm tokens and whatnot until i can obtain good gear. There are also players who dont have the friends or support to form a group worthy of the most hardcore dungeon paths, nor do they have the time to clear it once, then come back in an hour to try again.. so if they would like to take the less agressive path several times over, that might be the only way they can get a worthwhile 2 hours of GW2 in before/after work. I’d like to know just how we have some ‘unfair’ advantage by doing multiple runs? whether i farm 80 tokens back to back, or 80 tokens over a period of 5 days, it’s the same accumulated time and work and should be rewarded the same. you’re just slowing the inevitble and punishing me by giving me a measly 5 tokens each run, despite the fact alot of my runs take longer than 30 minutes.
It is no “safety net”, it’s a cop-out to avoid simply ensuring there are no ways to exploit, because there shouldn’t be.
(edited by Hayden.7920)
Plain and simple this system is a safety net for stopping crazy farming when people find exploits that make each run super fast. We are also addressing those loopholes, but that takes time and new ones might always be discovered. If you and your group do the dungeons without skipping large sections and run different chains this system shoul(bugs aside) never impact you.
Addendum for clarity, super fast means < 30 minutes, and even then you must hit that speed multiple times in a row before you start seeing any impact.
This is what i’ve been hoping for. That it was just a bug that was making the DR so harsh or activating too fast.
I have not run many dungeons (full time job and other interests like drinking and hanging out with friends take up quite a bit of my time.) so I have not personally felt the pain of the DR system they set in place. However, from reading the posts it seems to be an issue lots of people are having and are opposed against. I think Anet has good intentions with a system like this, but even good intentions cause unintentional damage that is possibly worse than the original issue. I think an easier fix is to do something like what WoW had. Each boss only gives a certain amount of tokens, like 5-10, and everyday for one time you can get an additional 40-60 extra tokens for completing it. So you can run the 8 different dungeons, one time and get the bonuses for all 8, and you can go back to the ones you want to do over and over and just get the 5-10 tokens per boss you fight. That way you can reward those who do the dungeons once a day with a nice boost of tokens, but also allow those who want to run multiple times some incentive to keep doing it. A DR system in the end hurts more than it helps.
What the hell that a professional software development team that provided a bugged system to replace a normal system? Its horrible in IT world! If the system not working properly, why not take it down and rollback to old one? This is a common sense in developing!
“Again, the DR system will only ever affect you if you complete the path in under 30 minutes.” Sorry, fanboy. The truth is DR system is affect the guys who haven’t play dungeons several days. My guild members fighting for our world in WvW a few days. About 3 to 4 days. Then he got a team to the dungeon and get 15 tokens of this run. Why? How? WTH of the DR system doing? Could you please answer me?
Close the eyes and just keep “ANet is doing right” in mind is just Brainwashing. Face to the fact!
Okay, I understand. Because I am trying to make people like you understand that 1. The system is to prevent exploiters, not regular players and 2. that although this is the intent, the system is still buggy, it makes me a fan boy.
Or it makes you mad and you just want to flail your arms around because you aren’t getting what you want, when you want it.
Thank you for both agreeing with me and contradicting yourself in your post though. I can answer you. But you answered yourself. Its buggy at the moment.
I think what a lot of people are saying, is that these problems have arisen due to an ill conceived system, created as an ill conceived solution.
Lets think back to the facts:
DR was created so people can’t speedrun dungeons.
Dungeons were spedrun via exploits.Look at the above two statements and tell me, shouldn’t they have just fixed the exploit in the first place? Bugs aside from the DR system, it actually opens a can of worms where some players are running the dungeon just under the 30 minute mark, because they are efficient, and getting penalized for it.
of course they’re fixing the exploits. but they’re also aware that they need a safety net for exploits people haven’t found yet or that could potentially crop up in the future.
though i think it’s also a way of strongly discouraging/combating the MMO-induced farming mentality, treating the game like a job and not a game. if you’re doing speed-runs for rewards and not because they’re inherently fun for you (wasn’t competitive dungeon speed-running a thing in GW1 for a while? never played it myself), you’re playing it not the way it was intended to be played. stop playing the game if all you care about is the reward at the end. or deal with DR.
i still think week-long raid-lockouts are way more restrictive than this.
@Melfice: Because Programming is Hard, especially with software as complex as a real-time MMO, and there’s no amount of testing that equates to a hundred thousand people hitting it at the same time.
And a rollback would likely also eliminate several of the bug fixes that they’ve also rolled out with these patches. Do the people stuck on their storyline and wanting to continue not merit the same attention as those doing dungeons? Necromancers with a issue list a mile long?
Yes, it’s buggy. No, it’s not ok. But it’s not as simple as flipping a switch and being done with it; if it was, you bet they would have so they can get to designing new stuff. Anet’s got a good track record by me, I’m sure they’re doing everything they can.
No, it is as simple as pressing a button. If they use a branching revision control system which is standard in the IT world. You create a new branch, select the code you want to include and the code you don’t want to include and a script makes you a full build.
Then you feed that into the patcher system and roll it out. Takes an organized head of development about 20 minutes max and he does not even need the help of one single Programmer.
What the hell that a professional software development team that provided a bugged system to replace a normal system? Its horrible in IT world! If the system not working properly, why not take it down and rollback to old one? This is a common sense in developing!
“Again, the DR system will only ever affect you if you complete the path in under 30 minutes.” Sorry, fanboy. The truth is DR system is affect the guys who haven’t play dungeons several days. My guild members fighting for our world in WvW a few days. About 3 to 4 days. Then he got a team to the dungeon and get 15 tokens of this run. Why? How? WTH of the DR system doing? Could you please answer me?
Close the eyes and just keep “ANet is doing right” in mind is just Brainwashing. Face to the fact!
Okay, I understand. Because I am trying to make people like you understand that 1. The system is to prevent exploiters, not regular players and 2. that although this is the intent, the system is still buggy, it makes me a fan boy.
Or it makes you mad and you just want to flail your arms around because you aren’t getting what you want, when you want it.
Thank you for both agreeing with me and contradicting yourself in your post though. I can answer you. But you answered yourself. Its buggy at the moment.
Before 9/17 No one MAD
9/17 “Its buggy at the moment.”
9/20 “Its buggy at the moment.”
9/20-9/24 “Diminished Returns are currently experiencing a known bug. We are aware of and working on the issue.”
9/25 “Its buggy at the moment.” And…this time, the Bugs Grow UP…
Hi Fanboy, are these the normal behaviors of international software development enterprise?
(edited by Melfice.2647)
^ Nemui, forking out up to 1g in repairs and wiping several times… we don’t just put up with that for the ‘lovely time we’re having’. there is incentive, the incentive makes it fun and worthwhile when at the end, we have something to show for our wipeouts and lost silver. The work towards a goal is what makes it bareable and even fun. The challenge is in collecting enough through persistent effort. I haven’t put up with the cliche’ dug out look of CoF and all the freakish unexplained 1 hit deaths just so at the end i can say “well that was fun, even without making any form of progress towards an objective”.
Plain and simple this system is a safety net for stopping crazy farming when people find exploits that make each run super fast. We are also addressing those loopholes, but that takes time and new ones might always be discovered. If you and your group do the dungeons without skipping large sections and run different chains this system shoul(bugs aside) never impact you.
Addendum for clarity, super fast means < 30 minutes, and even then you must hit that speed multiple times in a row before you start seeing any impact.
What I find disturbing is that it seems you (developers) seem to most assume that people who like to farm are exploiters. They are two different things, exploiters find a glitch or bug in the system and use it to their advantage. Farmers just play a lot. I understand to punish exploiters, but don’t punish farmers in the process. The same thing goes with farming karma or materials out in the PvE world, you should not be punishing people who play a lot. Things like this will eventually kill the game because of the restrictions.
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