Guild Wars 2

Anubarak.3012:

In organiced groups with perfect players
Ele, Guard, Thief, Ranger, Warrior, Ingineer, Necro, Mesmer

Wrong. Its Theif Warrior Ranger Ele Guard

Kain Francois.4328:

Tier 1: Warrior, Thief
Tier 2: Engineer, Ranger
Borderline: Guardian, Elementalist
Tier 3: Mesmer , Necromancer

Explanation:
Warrior and Thief self explanatory. HB and Heartseeker spam.

Engineer, and Rangers all have a nice sustain when fighting melee. Engineer have bombs with Static Discharge, while Rangers have their godly 1h sword. Both also possess the best long-range weapons in the game (Grenades and Longbow), with the insane far-reach capabilities of 1500 range, and nice damage too boot.

Elementalist is somewhat in the middle. Everything recharges too high, so they end up with lower overall damage which does not pay for their fragility in PvE.

Guardian from my experience doesn’t deal much damage as others. The damage is still nice, and the support is AMAZING, but in terms of bursting the Guardian is not as good as other classes.

Mesmers are more famous for utilities than their damage because their damage requires too much setup. Similar to the Elementalist, it’s too fragile.

Necromancer is… Not much to comment dps-wise. It’s great to cure conditions off foes and deny your foe any boons, but it’s just not a damage class.

make that 1800 range for traited Ranger LB. Its a bug, ANet knows of it, but you can manually fire the bow up to 1800 range. Auto attack stops at 1500.

zencow.3651:

Shiren.9532:

Wethospu.6437:

Based on my observations it takes about 6 months for pugs to catch up with the meta. Whatever people say here will be valid next year.

Do you think there will be a ranger meta where most pug groups are bringing sword rangers with frost spirit even if the devs don’t make any balance changes to the sword leap-lock and spirit and pet survivability?

Probably not… Sword ranger auto hurts my brains so I’d assume most pugs would ignore it.

if using sword, Lightning Reflexes are MANDATORY for hard hitting enemies. LR is the only skill that will abort the sword animation inbetween two strikes. 40 seconds CD (32 if traited). It is a good panic button either way, but will hurt group utility. Question is; can the group keep you alive through regen/direct heal? If the answer is no, take LR.

Prysin.8542:

zencow.3651:

Shiren.9532:

Wethospu.6437:

Based on my observations it takes about 6 months for pugs to catch up with the meta. Whatever people say here will be valid next year.

Do you think there will be a ranger meta where most pug groups are bringing sword rangers with frost spirit even if the devs don’t make any balance changes to the sword leap-lock and spirit and pet survivability?

Probably not… Sword ranger auto hurts my brains so I’d assume most pugs would ignore it.

if using sword, Lightning Reflexes are MANDATORY for hard hitting enemies. LR is the only skill that will abort the sword animation inbetween two strikes. 40 seconds CD (32 if traited). It is a good panic button either way, but will hurt group utility. Question is; can the group keep you alive through regen/direct heal? If the answer is no, take LR.

It’s nowhere close to mandatory.

a phantasm mesmer is bad at long boss fights? since when?
12.000 Xphantasm 10 sec CD + mesmer itself.

For ele there shoud be something i don t know because a D/D ele without abusing FGS has the lowest dps across profession afaik.
He has some tricks with conjured weapons that are situational and needs guardian/S to keep you alive because you are as versatile as an NPC being locked from your skills but aside thakittens really BAD.

Or at least i ve still to see ANY elementalist being effective dps without conjured.

Inevitable.8920:

Anubarak.3012:

In organiced groups with perfect players
Ele, Guard, Thief, Ranger, Warrior, Ingineer, Necro, Mesmer

Wrong. Its Theif Warrior Ranger Ele Guard

Maybe we are playing different games? But in gw2 ele deal more dmg than ranger, warrior or thief

Lol, this thread is ridiculous. There is no such class that deals the “highest dps”. dps is an amount of the group’s ability to work together, and no standalone job. We had once a hunter in cof, who was always downed during the endboss, telling us that he deals the most damage, therefore having bad armor, therefore being constantly downed.
But he dealt the LOWEST damage because he was downed while we weren’t. A zerker warrior without proper support is just a sitting duck next door.

Even if we would compare pure damage, there is nothing to compare lol. An engineer for example, dealing relatively low damage can also deal a huge amount of damage in giving for example 20 stacks of vulnerability constantly, buffing the damage of the WHOLE PARTY by 20%.
Guardians also deal lesser damage than, for example, warriors. But giving warriors 12++ stacks of might, they also increase their damage too, and the survivability.
The same goes for every class. And to the necromancer, being the weakest dps: There is a skill called epidemic that can deal the most damage in the whole game if used correctly. Oh yeah, and a mesmer has phantasms, lot of different support skills, CC, quickness for the entire group, boosting the dps brutally, and all that other stuff that isn’t counted as “dps”.

Really, dps alone sounds so laughable, but it is sad that experienced players like posting here are already on that level…

^good point, best dps comp is much more meaningful in dungeons than best dps class.

This thread is exactly what happens when casuals try to theorycraft about things like DPS.

Also, engineer DPS is fine, it’s about on par with ranger + pet. It’s just not as obvious because about 20% of it is in the form of bleed damage. They also do just fine in an organized group comp, their ability to solo-stack might and vuln for the entire party means you can go full DPS on everything else. Case in point, a single grenade engie stacks the same amount of might kitten warriors with FGJ and as much vuln as 3 warriors with A/M and OMM, and deals about equivalent DPS as any of those warriors.

They also have a ton of group healing, condition removal, and snares by default, which may not always be necessary but it certainly doesn’t hurt. Considering how many people bring guardians just for PoV, and considering that engies can remove conditions faster and more often (albeit without the convert, which honestly isn’t that good), I’m surprised more people don’t demand engies for fractals and Arah and whatnot.

I suspect it’s because most engies are just bad.

or just turned off by the lack of auto attacks in the grenade kit. Btw guang, have you ever compared the dps of bomb kits with grenade kits? With the trait to throw extra grenade I doubt bombs can be even close but having to spam 1 for every single throw just isn’t my cup of tea

Wukunlin.8461:

or just turned off by the lack of auto attacks in the grenade kit. Btw guang, have you ever compared the dps of bomb kits with grenade kits? With the trait to throw extra grenade I doubt bombs can be even close but having to spam 1 for every single throw just isn’t my cup of tea

Rozbuska’s thread about bomb zerker builds is here https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/PvE-Dungeon-Speedrun-Zerk-Build/first#post2560382
Good example of what a Engi is capable of dps wise given a specific team comp and playstyle, I definitely would not try to run this in a pug though.

Wukunlin.8461:

or just turned off by the lack of auto attacks in the grenade kit. Btw guang, have you ever compared the dps of bomb kits with grenade kits? With the trait to throw extra grenade I doubt bombs can be even close but having to spam 1 for every single throw just isn’t my cup of tea

Bomb DPS is considerably worse than grenade DPS. It’s not even worse discussing.

ugh, either dps or life expectancy of my keyboard and finger joints

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

This thread is exactly what happens when casuals try to theorycraft about things like DPS.

Also, engineer DPS is fine, it’s about on par with ranger + pet. It’s just not as obvious because about 20% of it is in the form of bleed damage. They also do just fine in an organized group comp, their ability to solo-stack might and vuln for the entire party means you can go full DPS on everything else. Case in point, a single grenade engie stacks the same amount of might kitten warriors with FGJ and as much vuln as 3 warriors with A/M and OMM, and deals about equivalent DPS as any of those warriors.

They also have a ton of group healing, condition removal, and snares by default, which may not always be necessary but it certainly doesn’t hurt. Considering how many people bring guardians just for PoV, and considering that engies can remove conditions faster and more often (albeit without the convert, which honestly isn’t that good), I’m surprised more people don’t demand engies for fractals and Arah and whatnot.

I suspect it’s because most engies are just bad.

too bad you don’t have any empirical data to back those claims cause they sure would help your ridiculous arguments

If he’d just make a video or get someone else to make a video he wouldn’t have to put up with people calling him wrong.

But of course what happens instead, is he claims things and then gets mad when people don’t take them face value.

Also, many mouses and keyboards would be destroyed should engi become a part of the meta.

My keyboard’s ‘1’ button has already been destroyed in the 20 minutes of doing my engi solo…

Also: survinig is mostly a standalone job. You are not a good player if you need a party to stay alive. Of corse there are exceptions, though.

I believe Engi DPS with grenade kit really isn’t that bad but it’s might stacking is active instead of passive. So you loose DPS when stacking might. Also Engi’s DPS won’t come close to beeing good enough since they don’t provide buffs like banners/spirits. And i already struggle wanting rangers in my dungeon runs. If i’d go for raw damage i’d simply stack eles. Bringing a ranger usually isn’t worth the loss of cleave and (especially) burst damage.

In some ways, I really wish the combat log was a better utility for actually being able to parse damage. I just don’t want the drawbacks that go along with it, there is already enough false elitism in this game and I fear it would simply make it worse, but then at least we would have actual proof. I know there is math to use skill coefficients as a baseline but they are pretty horrible indicators of what actual “real world” values will be since there are so many factors that can change how much damage a class is able to dish out for any given encounter, the largest of course being player skill. It’s simple to say that x beats y on paper, but that just really is not that great of an indicator of real performance.

colesy.8490:

If he’d just make a video or get someone else to make a video he wouldn’t have to put up with people calling him wrong.

But of course what happens instead, is he claims things and then gets mad when people don’t take them face value.

Also, many mouses and keyboards would be destroyed should engi become a part of the meta.

The funny thing is, there was a video, I don’t think it was Guang playing because he only plays with the Excel client, but it was some engineer back before the Kit Refinement nerf doing a solo DPS demonstration…

…and Strife still smoked it on his warrior.

Broadicea.8294:

The funny thing is, there was a video, I don’t think it was Guang playing because he only plays with the Excel client, but it was some engineer back before the Kit Refinement nerf doing a solo DPS demonstration…

…and Strife still smoked it on his warrior.

I think it was him. And if you take those solo dps tests as valid ones, think about it again.

colesy.8490:

If he’d just make a video or get someone else to make a video he wouldn’t have to put up with people calling him wrong.

But of course what happens instead, is he claims things and then gets mad when people don’t take them face value.

Also, many mouses and keyboards would be destroyed should engi become a part of the meta.

Add carpal tunnel to that list.

haviz.1340:

Broadicea.8294:

The funny thing is, there was a video, I don’t think it was Guang playing because he only plays with the Excel client, but it was some engineer back before the Kit Refinement nerf doing a solo DPS demonstration…

…and Strife still smoked it on his warrior.

I think it was him. And if you take those solo dps tests as valid ones, think about it again.

Yeah, that was me, and I blew Strife up pretty hard. Basically I did a sustained DPS test, and Strife apparently doesn’t understand what sustained DPS is so he did a burst demo, which I also beat.

I also don’t know why you are still asking for videos when Brazil uploads videos pretty much every day of him using my builds (or similar) blowing up your miserable warrior numbers.

Video links please.

I’m not claiming you’re wrong, I want to see it.

If it turns out that engineers do actually have strong burst then they may be incorporated in to the meta like rangers have.

colesy.8490:

Video links please.

I’m not claiming you’re wrong, I want to see it.

If it turns out that engineers do actually have strong burst then they may be incorporated in to the meta like rangers have.

Right, so in a group of a thief, a guard, 2 warriors and a ranger, you would cut the second war and use the engi for might stacking pre-combat and then pure DPS?

How is the engi burst compared to, say, hundred blades?

Finally, how much of a problem is clicking/pressing a button for each “auto” attack? If you can’t fire it off consistently, immediately because your hand is tired then it might make dungeon farming (or I suppose now, a dungeon farming route) a little difficult to be 100% consistent in.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

colesy.8490:

Video links please.

I’m not claiming you’re wrong, I want to see it.

If it turns out that engineers do actually have strong burst then they may be incorporated in to the meta like rangers have.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zWbiMULRW4

Wow, I’m speechless… that was awesome.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

I also don’t know why you are still asking for videos when Brazil uploads videos pretty much every day of him using my builds (or similar) blowing up your miserable warrior numbers.

lol.

^since when were you in DnT? :O

colesy.8490:

^since when were you in DnT? :O

Idk like just now O_O

colesy.8490:

Right, so in a group of a thief, a guard, 2 warriors and a ranger, you would cut the second war and use the engi for might stacking pre-combat and then pure DPS?

How is the engi burst compared to, say, hundred blades?

Finally, how much of a problem is clicking/pressing a button for each “auto” attack? If you can’t fire it off consistently, immediately because your hand is tired then it might make dungeon farming (or I suppose now, a dungeon farming route) a little difficult to be 100% consistent in.

In that demo he used big ole bomb. You’ll never use that in a dungeon as you don’t want an aoe knockback. That’s one of the whopping 8.6k ability hits.

Still pretty decent DPS but the problem is in more complex/task heavy encounters how well can you maintain a rotation compared to a warrior.

I think we all know thieves have amazing output but I think part of what makes warriors so strong is the self sufficiency and forgiving mechanics.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

I also don’t know why you are still asking for videos when Brazil uploads videos pretty much every day of him using my builds (or similar) blowing up your miserable warrior numbers.

Hmmmm….. I see the point you are making, but perhaps you should give me more credit instead of saying “using your builds.” I’ve spent loads of time testing, playing, deviating, and recording videos for all of the builds I have, not to mention giving advice to just about everyone that asks for it.

Zenith.7301:

colesy.8490:

Right, so in a group of a thief, a guard, 2 warriors and a ranger, you would cut the second war and use the engi for might stacking pre-combat and then pure DPS?

How is the engi burst compared to, say, hundred blades?

Finally, how much of a problem is clicking/pressing a button for each “auto” attack? If you can’t fire it off consistently, immediately because your hand is tired then it might make dungeon farming (or I suppose now, a dungeon farming route) a little difficult to be 100% consistent in.

In that demo he used big ole bomb. You’ll never use that in a dungeon as you don’t want an aoe knockback. That’s one of the whopping 8.6k ability hits.

Still pretty decent DPS but the problem is in more complex/task heavy encounters how well can you maintain a rotation compared to a warrior.

I think we all know thieves have amazing output but I think part of what makes warriors so strong is the self sufficiency and forgiving mechanics.

Well obviously you’ll check for defiant stacks before using aoe knockback.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

haviz.1340:

Broadicea.8294:

The funny thing is, there was a video, I don’t think it was Guang playing because he only plays with the Excel client, but it was some engineer back before the Kit Refinement nerf doing a solo DPS demonstration…

…and Strife still smoked it on his warrior.

I think it was him. And if you take those solo dps tests as valid ones, think about it again.

Yeah, that was me, and I blew Strife up pretty hard. Basically I did a sustained DPS test, and Strife apparently doesn’t understand what sustained DPS is so he did a burst demo, which I also beat.

I also don’t know why you are still asking for videos when Brazil uploads videos pretty much every day of him using my builds (or similar) blowing up your miserable warrior numbers.

I don’t see haviz demanding videos or brazil “blowing up miserable warrior numbers”.

colesy.8490:

Zenith.7301:

colesy.8490:

Right, so in a group of a thief, a guard, 2 warriors and a ranger, you would cut the second war and use the engi for might stacking pre-combat and then pure DPS?

How is the engi burst compared to, say, hundred blades?

Finally, how much of a problem is clicking/pressing a button for each “auto” attack? If you can’t fire it off consistently, immediately because your hand is tired then it might make dungeon farming (or I suppose now, a dungeon farming route) a little difficult to be 100% consistent in.

In that demo he used big ole bomb. You’ll never use that in a dungeon as you don’t want an aoe knockback. That’s one of the whopping 8.6k ability hits.

Still pretty decent DPS but the problem is in more complex/task heavy encounters how well can you maintain a rotation compared to a warrior.

I think we all know thieves have amazing output but I think part of what makes warriors so strong is the self sufficiency and forgiving mechanics.

Well obviously you’ll check for defiant stacks before using aoe knockback.

I mean it for the purpose of encounters with adds and anything that involves cleaves. Otherwise if single target is all that matters you bring 2 thieves, a ranger for spirit and spotter, a warrior for banners, and either a mesmer or guardian.

The problem isn’t that the engineer is just competing for DPS or might stacking and vulnerability. The problem is that so long as banners and spirits exist you won’t be substituting those classes without bringing comparable utility of your own, and in single target the thieves propped up by warriors and rangers will still outperform an engineer if the engineer wants to fill the raw dps slot instead the utility support slots of rangers or mesmer or guardians.

Zenith.7301:

colesy.8490:

Zenith.7301:

colesy.8490:

Right, so in a group of a thief, a guard, 2 warriors and a ranger, you would cut the second war and use the engi for might stacking pre-combat and then pure DPS?

How is the engi burst compared to, say, hundred blades?

Finally, how much of a problem is clicking/pressing a button for each “auto” attack? If you can’t fire it off consistently, immediately because your hand is tired then it might make dungeon farming (or I suppose now, a dungeon farming route) a little difficult to be 100% consistent in.

In that demo he used big ole bomb. You’ll never use that in a dungeon as you don’t want an aoe knockback. That’s one of the whopping 8.6k ability hits.

Still pretty decent DPS but the problem is in more complex/task heavy encounters how well can you maintain a rotation compared to a warrior.

I think we all know thieves have amazing output but I think part of what makes warriors so strong is the self sufficiency and forgiving mechanics.

Well obviously you’ll check for defiant stacks before using aoe knockback.

I mean it for the purpose of encounters with adds and anything that involves cleaves. Otherwise if single target is all that matters you bring 2 thieves, a ranger for spirit and spotter, a warrior for banners, and either a mesmer or guardian.

The problem isn’t that the engineer is just competing for DPS or might stacking and vulnerability. The problem is that so long as banners and spirits exist you won’t be substituting those classes without bringing comparable utility of your own, and in single target the thieves porpper up by warriors and rangers will still outperform an engineer if the engineer wants to fill the raw dps slot instead the utility support slots of rangers or mesmer or guardians.

If raw damage was everything that matters in gw2 you should always bring two or three eles. Rangers still don’t have a spot there, thieves just for making a simultaneus start easier. And then that thief won’t even use any of their own weapon skills.

Colesy nooooooo. Never ever bring up Hundred Blades in a DPS conversation, it’s so noobish.

Also I didn’t even notice until today, but I am literally always mashing 1, even on a Warrior. I think I had issues with foes stepping out of auto attack range, or not being able to consistently cleave through mobs if the selected target goes for a wander/my auto target picks the furthest thing away.
It’s really not that bad, I play for a few hours on end and don’t even notice it, but then again, not everyone has Aussie muscles of steel

I do the same thing, just always mashing 1 because idk why.

I’m always mashing Q. Because QQ look at my 100b its so high?

Everytime I use 100b and see a whole bunch of red “miss”

am I doing it right?

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

haviz.1340:

Broadicea.8294:

The funny thing is, there was a video, I don’t think it was Guang playing because he only plays with the Excel client, but it was some engineer back before the Kit Refinement nerf doing a solo DPS demonstration…

…and Strife still smoked it on his warrior.

I think it was him. And if you take those solo dps tests as valid ones, think about it again.

Yeah, that was me, and I blew Strife up pretty hard. Basically I did a sustained DPS test, and Strife apparently doesn’t understand what sustained DPS is so he did a burst demo, which I also beat.

I also don’t know why you are still asking for videos when Brazil uploads videos pretty much every day of him using my builds (or similar) blowing up your miserable warrior numbers.

yeah like that time that there was a 17 second lupicus kill with a mesmer and 4 engineers

or wait that 5:23 CoF run with a mesmer, 2 thieves, and 2 engineers

or that arah speedrun with all dem engies

Dolan.3071:

Colesy nooooooo. Never ever bring up Hundred Blades in a DPS conversation, it’s so noobish.

Well I mentioned it in regards to its burst, not just DPS.

I’m always mashing Q. Because QQ look at my 100b its so high?

I remember one time when making a cof p1 farming party I was about to boot a guy for only having a greatsword, then he said his DPS was awesome and just gave me a hundred blades figure. And then called my DPS bad, even though I’m a mesmer. Like sure captain obvious, I know my DPS is bad.

Broadicea.8294:

yeah like that time that there was a 17 second lupicus kill with a mesmer and 4 engineers

or wait that 5:23 CoF run with a mesmer, 2 thieves, and 2 engineers

or that arah speedrun with all dem engies

So why eles are in so-called t2?

You’re still saying same silly thing like 4 engineers.

Back to the original post. If ppl are going to rate each class for how much damage they can do then they should not include buffs or stacks from other players. If you need a FGS from an ele to get max DPS then you shouldn’t be listed higher for instance. What classes have the best DPS regardless of what other classes can bring to the table.

zerotwo.4731:

Back to the original post. If ppl are going to rate each class for how much damage they can do then they should not include buffs or stacks from other players. If you need a FGS from an ele to get max DPS then you shouldn’t be listed higher for instance. What classes have the best DPS regardless of what other classes can bring to the table.

You should just avoid trying to take anything from this thread seriously. Half of the people who post THINK they know, and the other half know what Brazil knows/tells them.

I’ve seen some spreadsheets w/ detailed traits/attacks of every classes, weapons damages, armor characteristics and everything else. It is the same concept of data compilation used by websites like intothemist, guildcraft to generate a build. You could also use the data to compile into a list of what attacks would caused the most damage and under what condition. Right now, the way it was build using excel isn’t the best to compile such info because it’s so rudimentary in term of data structuring. I would further guess that Guanglai probably has a good educated guess by tinkering w/ those spreadsheets but it’s still not an exact and conclusive data that he could put all the attacks under certain conditions side by side to compare. Until he provides such data, I wouldn’t put him on that high pedestal yet.
Maybe it’s a good matlab coding project for some students have plenty of time during their summer break. I could do the same but I rather spent hours w/ my friends recording some weirdo ideas in fractal than doing this.

I just did a quick numbers crunch for ele in case anyone was curious and a 25/0/25/20/0 LH + D/D ele gets about 3700 DPS with hammer, 2300 with D/D, averaging out at 3350 DPS sustained. Compare that to 20/30/20/0/0 GS guardian at 3000 DPS and 30/0/0/10/30 axe warrior at 2850.

Don’t ask me how I got those numbers, I got sick of explaining them to people who don’t understand them anyway.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

I just did a quick numbers crunch for ele in case anyone was curious and a 25/0/25/20/0 LH + D/D ele gets about 3700 DPS with hammer, 2300 with D/D, averaging out at 3350 DPS sustained. Compare that to 20/30/20/0/0 GS guardian at 3000 DPS and 30/0/0/10/30 axe warrior at 2850.

Don’t ask me how I got those numbers, I got sick of explaining them to people who don’t understand them anyway.

You know, at my work if someone said that to me, I throw his paper into the trash can immediately w/o bothering to look at it. The point is there are morons in the forum but not all forum attendants are morons. If you don’t understand this piece of logic, your math is no good.

LH ele are no stranger to damage. and neither are guardians. No point in taking anything more than a single warrior to anything except maybe arah because warrior is the easy mode for endurance regen/dodge-evasion.

And the blind on the autoattack is incredible in certain dungeons. With glyph of storms as a starter for fights..

swiftpaw.6397:

colesy.8490:

^since when were you in DnT? :O

Idk like just now O_O

She bakes cookies for us; instant-win and ginvite.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

I just did a quick numbers crunch for ele in case anyone was curious and a 25/0/25/20/0 LH + D/D ele gets about 3700 DPS with hammer, 2300 with D/D, averaging out at 3350 DPS sustained. Compare that to 20/30/20/0/0 GS guardian at 3000 DPS and 30/0/0/10/30 axe warrior at 2850.

Don’t ask me how I got those numbers, I got sick of explaining them to people who don’t understand them anyway.

Don’t guardians run 10/30/0/30/0? I thought AH builds got binned because they were trash (plus valour has awful traits besides AH)

AH is a grandmaster. Guanglai’s build is not AH. And usually AH builds have ton of points in the even more useless line Honor. Honor’s only redeeming traits are the vigor and symbol ones, and you only really need the symbol ones for hammer.