Guild Wars 2

Mesmer’s DPS is seriously terrible. The only reason people take them is because their utility is pretty nice. Feedback doesn’t count as high-DPS. You can almost call Mesmers a leech role.

Dempsey.8760:

@spoj, it’s probably similar to ranger, and ranger brings group buffs. You’ve already admitted necro is just a sponge so ranger is better in that only.

Ye i meant better dps wise, not useful wise.

It’s not about Mesmer being high DPS, it’s about the utility it provides (like everyone else has already said). Necromancer DPS isn’t enough to warrant taking it.

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

Mesmer’s DPS is seriously terrible. The only reason people take them is because their utility is pretty nice. Feedback doesn’t count as high-DPS. You can almost call Mesmers a leech role.

I wouldn’t say it’s fair to say they’re almost a leech role. I mean although they don’t have strong DPS, their burst can range from fairly decent (warden + duelist can be like 25k damage + bleed stacks in the period of … 3-4 seconds if you include the casting times and the time it takes the phantasms to cast their own ability) to downright kittened broken completely trivialising an encounter (feedback on any boss that relies heavily on projectiles, e.g lupicus).

And you can’t really trivialise their utility, when doing fractals the sheer amount of reflects I have for uncategorised that I can cycle through without relying on anybody else for support is ridiculous, and then there’s magic bullet if I have nothing else available.

Still, the point remains, our dps is trash so it’s a good thing dungeons only really require burst.

Dog.1472:

ShadowPuppet.3746:

Wukunlin.8461:

spoj.9672:

Dempsey.8760:

zencow.3651:

Rangers actually have the best damage when supplied with a Lightning Hammer since their goes up to – more or less – the standard auto-attack damage (with full zerker that’s 1.5-2k, 1.5-2k, 4-5k on third hit), ON TOP of the damage the pet’s doing.

My warrior hits harder than that with a lightning hammer >.>

My mesmer hits harder than that with a lightning hammer >.>

My dog hits harder than that with a lightning hammer >.>

DOG OP…..NERF DOG!!! it has the ability to consume garbage and hit you for over 9000 with vomit attack!

I don’t…. I don’t do that….

Talking dog op…nerf talking dog it has the ability to deny it’s very nature, causing you over 9000 retaliation damage!

guardian its a great op dps

just 21 bloodlust, see all stats

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w110/skorpia22/gw018-2.jpg~original

colesy.8490:

I wouldn’t say it’s fair to say they’re almost a leech role.

When I use the term ‘leech’, I generally mean you can throw someone on that role and regardless of their performance, the run won’t be impacted that heavily. Essentially I’m saying the class doesn’t have a large impact on runs, for the most part. There are exceptions where you’ll design a tactic based on the Mesmer, but for the rest of the run where it’s just a smackwhackthwack, the Mesmer’s performance is less impactful than say a Warriors or Thieves, as their job is to carry the team in terms of damage and you can tell if they’re not doing their job properly.

Adding to that, I did say you can ‘almost’ say that. Mostly because there just seem to be so many instances where you rely on the Mesmers reflects or TW/NF.

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

There are exceptions where you’ll design a tactic based on the Mesmer.

1. Giganticus Lupicus
2. Giganticus Lupicus
3. ….
4. GL

Image WoR would work against p2 AoE… bye bye mesmer

WoR works just as good as feedback. The reason why we take a mesmer is timewarp.

Feedback is a safer option. WoR is much less certain to stop you from getting nuked than Feedback is.

If the entire party stands inside WoR noone will get damage and as many projectiles will be reflected as with feedback. I always use WoR to reflect the p2 aoe when solo’ing, works just fine.

That’s not true, because you can still die inside of Feedback as well if you stand too far to the outer edges. Projectiles that aren’t reflected yet explode near by will still damage you.

I’ll throw in my list with absolutely no evidence to back it up so I feel included.

1. Ele – Vuln/Might/Fury stacking, AoE blind on auto attack, LH so the Mesmer can occasionally do damage, Fiery Greatsword – Mandatory
2. Warrior – Banners, Empowered Allies – Mandatory
3. Thief – Stealth if you don’t know how to run past mobs, blind spam.
4. Guardian – Aegis, reflects, fire field – Mandatory
5. Ranger – Spotter, Frost Spirit, DPS dependant on keeping pet alive. With some tweaks I wouldn’t mind seeing this added to the meta
6. Necro/Engineer – Straight up don’t know kitten about them, but they’ve gotta be better than Mesmer
7. Mesmer – Reflects, Temporal Curtain, Null Field, TIME WARP (glorious, glorious utility) – Mandatory

Also, grats on the kittenstorm.

wtf a serious post from dolan

Dub.1273:

If the entire party stands inside WoR noone will get damage and as many projectiles will be reflected as with feedback. I always use WoR to reflect the p2 aoe when solo’ing, works just fine.

I believe you almost always but since I have no guard I can’t check this by myself. Normally I die inside WoR… Can we test it tomorrow?

spoj.9672:

Dempsey.8760:

zencow.3651:

Rangers actually have the best damage when supplied with a Lightning Hammer since their goes up to – more or less – the standard auto-attack damage (with full zerker that’s 1.5-2k, 1.5-2k, 4-5k on third hit), ON TOP of the damage the pet’s doing.

My warrior hits harder than that with a lightning hammer >.>

My mesmer hits harder than that with a lightning hammer >.>

I had 0/0/10/30/30 cos I was playing with spirits :<
But I was using a wolf so there!

#stillbetterthan24/7longbowafkshootingpassivebear3signetranger

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

colesy.8490:

I wouldn’t say it’s fair to say they’re almost a leech role.

When I use the term ‘leech’, I generally mean you can throw someone on that role and regardless of their performance, the run won’t be impacted that heavily. Essentially I’m saying the class doesn’t have a large impact on runs, for the most part. There are exceptions where you’ll design a tactic based on the Mesmer, but for the rest of the run where it’s just a smackwhackthwack, the Mesmer’s performance is less impactful than say a Warriors or Thieves, as their job is to carry the team in terms of damage and you can tell if they’re not doing their job properly.

Adding to that, I did say you can ‘almost’ say that. Mostly because there just seem to be so many instances where you rely on the Mesmers reflects or TW/NF.

I suppose.

I feel like mesmer should get some pve-exclusive balancing to improve their dps, if they’re made stronger in all game modes then they’ll become even more god mode in 1v1 duels, but they seriously need an increase in their dps in pve. I mean I sit there kitted out in full berserker, almost fully ascended and I can do some lame what, 2.8k auto off my greatsword which even then is a charged attack, not just a half second weapon swing.

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

That’s not true, because you can still die inside of Feedback as well if you stand too far to the outer edges. Projectiles that aren’t reflected yet explode near by will still damage you.

If everyone stacks up an noone moves all projectiles will be aimed exactly into the wall and therefore be reflected.

Dempsey.8760:

Dub.1273:

5. P/D Thief*

@Nikaido: Eles also have much better burst than warriors. In the first three seconds of combat they dish out up to 200k damage.

Doing the FGS rush shouldn’t be considered as a reliable form of dps since it really doesn’t work at every boss or trash pull. Also, Nikaido is a big thor hammer fan, he knows.

And another thing the FGS rush needs to be fixed.

@spoj, it’s probably similar to ranger, and ranger brings group buffs. You’ve already admitted necro is just a sponge so ranger is better in that only.

Fiery GS is a very reliable dps source.

Dub.1273:

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

That’s not true, because you can still die inside of Feedback as well if you stand too far to the outer edges. Projectiles that aren’t reflected yet explode near by will still damage you.

If everyone stacks up an noone moves all projectiles will be aimed exactly into the wall and therefore be reflected.

That is most definitely not how his barrage works.

I agree with dub, except maybe for lupi’s feedback, everything a mes brings can just be replaced by the guard. I’ve experimented doing knocks and pull on guard it’s fine, although gs pull can be slightly unreliable at times but not bringing a mes is well worth it. I just wish I could convince everyone else to drop it.

Tome of wrath isn’t timewarp but it still does enhance the group dps overall despite having to momentarily stop dpsing on the guard to cast it. I don’t feel a need for timewarp when I run with zero mes.

It’s going to be pretty annoying if mesmers get phased out of dungeon groups, it’s like much the only reason I initially rolled one.

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

Dub.1273:

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

That’s not true, because you can still die inside of Feedback as well if you stand too far to the outer edges. Projectiles that aren’t reflected yet explode near by will still damage you.

If everyone stacks up an noone moves all projectiles will be aimed exactly into the wall and therefore be reflected.

That is most definitely not how his barrage works.

It is :/

video of an entire team being perfectly shielded by WoR, pl0x

Wukunlin.8461:

spoj.9672:

Dempsey.8760:

zencow.3651:

Rangers actually have the best damage when supplied with a Lightning Hammer since their goes up to – more or less – the standard auto-attack damage (with full zerker that’s 1.5-2k, 1.5-2k, 4-5k on third hit), ON TOP of the damage the pet’s doing.

My warrior hits harder than that with a lightning hammer >.>

My mesmer hits harder than that with a lightning hammer >.>

My dog hits harder than that with a lightning hammer >.>

My lightning hammer hits harder than that with dog

I figure this is troll bait, but here is my ranking of the classes in terms of general dungeoneering…

t1: War,thief,Guard, ranger
t2: mesmer, ele, engineer
t3: necro

Rationale: Warriors and Guardians have good personal DPS and provide excellent party-wide buffing. Thief has the best DPS for most dungeon bosses, and blackpowder is OP for trash, and Shadow Refuge/smoke field makes dungeons like Arah and TA that have trash runs trivial. Ranger has decent to good personal DPS and provides 12% party-wide DPS boost which is far from trivial.

In tier 2, Ele’s have good personal dps but unless you build your party around their might stacking capabilities their utility isn’t so great. I compare them in a lot of ways to a Thief, and when you look at them side by side the Thief is superior. Mesmer has low DPS but really good utility so based on the dungeon they warrant inclusion, additionally while they raise your clear times in some dungeons (like CoE) they provide a quality of life improvement that makes casual runs more laid back, and that isn’t a bad thing. Engineers can have decent DPS and provide good utility but when I look at them side by side with other professions I can’t see where I would bring one before I bring any of the tier 1 professions, and the problem is once you have one of each of the t1 professions you have to ask yourself if an engie would add something the others don’t have covered. The only compelling case would be built around vuln/might stacking if your team isn’t capping either.

Tier 3 is the necro. They have no useful team utility, and their dps isn’t anything special. Put it this way: even if their DPS was equal to a Thief or warrior you still wouldn’t bring one because their team-utility is essentially zero. Imagining you have the four t1 professions covered, why would you ever bring a Necro ahead of one of the t2, in what possible scenario would that be optimal?

Broadicea.8294:

video of an entire team being perfectly shielded by WoR, pl0x

Dub.1273:

Broadicea.8294:

video of an entire team being perfectly shielded by WoR, pl0x

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDnFKz8v0a4

One of your warriors got hit by it lol

and use share link nub

http://youtu.be/lDnFKz8v0a4

Wall can work but Feedback is more reliable. Now taking a mesmer over another guardian is debateable, but if a guardian had both Wall and Feedback as utility skills, which one would you use?

Well, he probably didn’t stand in the wall.

Having played Ranger recently (with 1h sword and Jaguar) I noticed the damage really aint that bad at all.

What they lack compared to a warrior is burst, but make up for it with superior ranged damage (yes) and the ability to apply chill longer than any other profession.

Ranger also has the pull on his offhand axe, which is very very VERY GOOD! (Possibly the most underrated and under-appreciated ranger skills.)

Kain Francois.4328:

Having played Ranger recently (with 1h sword and Jaguar) I noticed the damage really aint that bad at all.

What they lack compared to a warrior is burst, but make up for it with superior ranged damage (yes) and the ability to apply chill longer than any other profession.

Ranger also has the pull on his offhand axe, which is very very VERY GOOD! (Possibly the most underrated and under-appreciated ranger skills.)

I wish they changed sword 1 chain, that’s the biggest issue with ranger for me at least.

Konu.1826:

Kain Francois.4328:

Having played Ranger recently (with 1h sword and Jaguar) I noticed the damage really aint that bad at all.

What they lack compared to a warrior is burst, but make up for it with superior ranged damage (yes) and the ability to apply chill longer than any other profession.

Ranger also has the pull on his offhand axe, which is very very VERY GOOD! (Possibly the most underrated and under-appreciated ranger skills.)

I wish they changed sword 1 chain, that’s the biggest issue with ranger for me at least.

Sword 1 chain was designed to be a chaser against moving targets, IMO. The issue there is how do you remove rooting from the character while not mucking up the leap animations done by the second and third attacks in the AA chain?

Dub.1273:

Broadicea.8294:

video of an entire team being perfectly shielded by WoR, pl0x

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDnFKz8v0a4

That’s some pro skill clicking right there.

I would just get rid of the gap closing feature and have it be like the rest of the attack chains. Variety is good but when it comes with the price of not being able to control your character in a game built around evading dmg I’m more than willing to take that trade.

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

Dub.1273:

Broadicea.8294:

video of an entire team being perfectly shielded by WoR, pl0x

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDnFKz8v0a4

That’s some pro skill clicking right there.

I know my gameplay hasn’t been very good those days.
I have keybinds for everything but Skill 9 by now! My mouse is missing a 4th extra button ._.

Dub.1273:

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

Dub.1273:

Broadicea.8294:

video of an entire team being perfectly shielded by WoR, pl0x

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDnFKz8v0a4

That’s some pro skill clicking right there.

I know my gameplay hasn’t been very good those days.
I have keybinds for everything but Skill 9 by now! My mouse is missing a 4th extra button ._.

Just use Combat Mode. That will solve all of your problems.

I don’t even know what combat mode is.

Wukunlin.8461:

wtf a serious post from dolan

Enjoy this one in a million post before the mods panic and delete it.

Dub.1273:

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

Dub.1273:

Broadicea.8294:

video of an entire team being perfectly shielded by WoR, pl0x

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDnFKz8v0a4

That’s some pro skill clicking right there.

I know my gameplay hasn’t been very good those days.
I have keybinds for everything but Skill 9 by now! My mouse is missing a 4th extra button ._.

Some improvement here: 7:57 Lupicus Guardian solo

Edit: Link fixed.

Wethospu.6437:

Based on my observations it takes about 6 months for pugs to catch up with the meta. Whatever people say here will be valid next year.

Do you think there will be a ranger meta where most pug groups are bringing sword rangers with frost spirit even if the devs don’t make any balance changes to the sword leap-lock and spirit and pet survivability?

Shiren.9532:

Wethospu.6437:

Based on my observations it takes about 6 months for pugs to catch up with the meta. Whatever people say here will be valid next year.

Do you think there will be a ranger meta where most pug groups are bringing sword rangers with frost spirit even if the devs don’t make any balance changes to the sword leap-lock and spirit and pet survivability?

Probably not… Sword ranger auto hurts my brains so I’d assume most pugs would ignore it.

Well since it actually involves a little skill playing around the sword root, no.

COF p1 zerk warriors could barely even do that dungeon, so why would pug zerk rangers do any better?

In 6 months they start using Frost Spirit. You have to remember that they are just pugs.

I’d put my money on Frost Spirit getting a survivability buff before pugs ever touch it.

Dub.1273:

Dub.1273:

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

Dub.1273:

Broadicea.8294:

video of an entire team being perfectly shielded by WoR, pl0x

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDnFKz8v0a4

That’s some pro skill clicking right there.

I know my gameplay hasn’t been very good those days.
I have keybinds for everything but Skill 9 by now! My mouse is missing a 4th extra button ._.

Some improvement here: 7:57 Lupicus Guardian solo

Edit: Link fixed.

Still a skill-clicker, though.

kitten , you catched me.
Has been shameless self advertising.

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

Still a skill-clicker, though.

Small hands.

Dub.1273:

Dub.1273:

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

Dub.1273:

Broadicea.8294:

video of an entire team being perfectly shielded by WoR, pl0x

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDnFKz8v0a4

That’s some pro skill clicking right there.

I know my gameplay hasn’t been very good those days.
I have keybinds for everything but Skill 9 by now! My mouse is missing a 4th extra button ._.

Some improvement here: 7:57 Lupicus Guardian solo

Edit: Link fixed.

You’re running 10/30/0/20/10 or 10/25/0/25/10?

10/25/0/25/10 as you can see in the end of the video.

ShadowPuppet.3746:

Wukunlin.8461:

spoj.9672:

Dempsey.8760:

zencow.3651:

Rangers actually have the best damage when supplied with a Lightning Hammer since their goes up to – more or less – the standard auto-attack damage (with full zerker that’s 1.5-2k, 1.5-2k, 4-5k on third hit), ON TOP of the damage the pet’s doing.

My warrior hits harder than that with a lightning hammer >.>

My mesmer hits harder than that with a lightning hammer >.>

My dog hits harder than that with a lightning hammer >.>

DOG OP…..NERF DOG!!! it has the ability to consume garbage and hit you for over 9000 with vomit attack!

Way to go ANET! Dog is so OP that no other class is even viable anymore!
Why should I play my Guardian when dog can vomit for 9000 with its vomit attack?! It’s obvious that the devs only play Dog and want us all to roll Dogs, too.

I’m done with this game until Anet learns to balance their kitten Dog class.