Guild Wars 2

Captain Swag.5893:

Syn Sity.5826:

Captain Swag.5893:

Saulius.8430:

ranged(sitting 900-1200 away) players don’t get aoe boons (most utilities and aoe combos have small effect radius), cannot effectively revive or be revived, does less damage in general (with few exceptions)

so why would one choose to play ranged in coordinated small group(dungeons)?

its hilarious when 4 players got banner buffs, fury, 25stacks of might, and there is that one ranger standing 1500 away w/o any buffs, and later complains why no one wants him

Bosses normally have these things called “mechanics” that require you to do something other than standing still, mashing one button. Maybe a dodge here, or a cleanse there. Many of these are easier to dodge when far away. (You shouldn’t need reminded of this, if you’re as all-knowing as you try to sound.)

As I said, tactics are fine, but tactics shouldn’t ruin it for the rest of the group.

Ok, do this. Go into AC, kill the first breeder and head to the queen. Kill all the low level spiders to spawn the queen, drag her into the LoS spot and then just stand there and mash one button. See how well that works for you. Seriously this is one of very few bosses that doesn’t use a particular attack when you are in melee range. Why in god’s name would you stand at range and force her to use her AoE field? When you are at Alphard in Arah path 2, do you insist that everyone ranges so that she uses her insta kill dagger storm? What kind of ridiculous gameplay would that be? In what other game do people go out of their way to get an enemy to use more attacks on them? In gaming, the goal should be to do things as efficiently as possible. In this particular boss, that means LoS’ing and meleeing to avoid the AoE field. To not do so would be approaching insanity, especially when you consider how much easier it is to stack boons and other offensive support when you are closer to the rest of your group.

And then every single “range” character dies, as most light/medium armor classes aren’t meant to take nonstop AoE to the face.

So it’s “roll a warrior or guardian or go home”, is it?
Again, learn what some exaggeration is. Not LITERALLY one button, nonstop. For God’s sake nobody is that stupid, and it’s a figure of speech.
The boss has mechanics for ranged characters, and melee characters, one way or another, someone is gonna get screwed, it just varies on which you want screwed more, and again, they’ve fixed things like this in the past for the several reasons mentioned.

Stop pretending.

Honestly man you must either not know the encounter well enough, or you have terrible pug luck. I can easily understand bag pug luck but it’s not a difficult fight. I do this all the time with my ZERK ele…rarely if ever do I even go down. This goes the same for most of the other pug players I find. In NO WAY does this method make the fight harder for “squishy ranged toons”.

It’s not an exploit, it’s a boss mechanic. If someone has a sniper rifle and a pistol, I’d rather close the gap and deal with the smaller caliber round. Same concept here. Learn the fight, group with people you know, and enjoy the dungeon.

Personally I do hope Queen Spider’s issue gets fixed. I really have no problem with stacking Kholer or Rumbly or whatever else in that dungeon. Stacking Queen Spider in that little room feels kinda cheap. I’d like it if she spit her poison no matter what distance the group was from her. I’ll still do it until it gets fixed (if it does) because it’s braindead easy, but I think the fight could be a lot more challenging.

^
I can only imagine the overflow of threads saying “Omg AC spider too hard, pls nerf.”

Captain Swag.5893:

Bosses normally have these things called “mechanics” that require you to do something other than standing still, mashing one button. Maybe a dodge here, or a cleanse there. Many of these are easier to dodge when far away

ok, so spider queen got ‘mechanic’, to spit on targets outside her melee range
which is easier:

• dodging aoe circles at range
• staying inside melee range, preventing aoe circle to happen all together

P.S. plot twist, both require certain skill level. and i’d argue that dealing with bosses’ melee attacks often needs more

Captain Swag.5893:

And then every single “range” character dies, as most light/medium armor classes aren’t meant to take nonstop AoE to the face.
…
Stop pretending.

heavy classes are not supposed “take nonstop AoE to the face” either – and no, that minor hp/armor bonus doesn’t help if you fail to avoid/block bosses’ fatal attacks
also for comparison mesmer with one handed sword can facetank better than those ‘heavies’ with any weapon

btw, pugs are shooting themselves in the face, when stacking for spider queen in that corner, because there is no space to surround her, therefor everyone is hit by her melee cleave and cone shaped attacks

a t s e.9614:

Maledictus, they must leave the dungeons as they are . They are already such a pain in the **** with pugs and stuff . It’s my only source of income for my twilight that I probably never get if they keep fixing “bugs” or “exploits”.
“If they ever fix “stack” or skip I want dungeons gold to be buffed by 2 . Just imagining all the problems it would create if we couldnt stack … We woukd be forced to run in circles like some mindless dumb chickens. For the love of god stop QQ about dungeons before arenanet “fix” it in their own way.

You know, it’s ironic that you don’t want them to fix “exploit”, which makes killing boss way too easy and quick, while you made a “QQ” thread about champ farming and how it should be nerfed because people (guess what!) stack and kill champs with autoattacks!

It’s not an exploit clearly, it’s bad design. The blame is on the dungeon team for not giving their bosses a way to deal with close combat. You can’t blame players for using the game’s mechanics in the most efficient way. This isn’t a case where players are glitching outside the level bounds. They are just fighting the boss up-close.

Some bosses are checks for bad dps. Some are checks for bad dodging. Some are checks for people who refuse to melee. Some are checks for people who refuse to spread out.

Seems like all the QQ about this particular boss comes from people who aren’t happy that their chosen set-in-stone play-how-you-want playstyle is not the particular check for this boss.

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Some bosses are checks for bad dps. Some are checks for bad dodging. Some are checks for people who refuse to melee. Some are checks for people who refuse to spread out.

Seems like all the QQ about this particular boss comes from people who aren’t happy that their chosen set-in-stone play-how-you-want playstyle is not the particular check for this boss.

Exactly. Bosses in games shouldn’t have to conform to the way you like to play. It’s been the other way around since I was a kid and I hope you whiners don’t whine so much that they are going to change basic game design. Some bosses you do this, some you do that etc. In this game you actually have way more options on how to kill a boss than most games…

Syn Sity.5826:

Exactly. Bosses in games shouldn’t have to conform to the way you like to play.

And neither should other players.

Juuuuuuuuuuust sayin’.

Black Box.9312:

Syn Sity.5826:

Exactly. Bosses in games shouldn’t have to conform to the way you like to play.

And neither should other players.

Juuuuuuuuuuust sayin’.

Actually, they do.

While we are free to play “how they want” we are just as free to play with “who we want”.

If player A wants to join a party advertised as “speed clear – max dps and experienced only” and that player is a shout heal warrior, they should not be surprised and have no right to complain if they find them self kicked as the party made it quite clear who they wanted to play with.

Same works in reverse if a party advertises as “full clear, no skips no stacking” anyone trying to force the party to do so shouldn’t be surprised or complain about if they are kicked.

durend.6237:

Black Box.9312:

Syn Sity.5826:

Exactly. Bosses in games shouldn’t have to conform to the way you like to play.

And neither should other players.

Juuuuuuuuuuust sayin’.

Actually, they do.

While we are free to play “how they want” we are just as free to play with “who we want”.

If player A wants to join a party advertised as “speed clear – max dps and experienced only” and that player is a shout heal warrior, they should not be surprised and have no right to complain if they find them self kicked as the party made it quite clear who they wanted to play with.

Same works in reverse if a party advertises as “full clear, no skips no stacking” anyone trying to force the party to do so shouldn’t be surprised or complain about if they are kicked.

Yet, they do.
They complain in whisper, then head to the forum and complain there.

durend.6237:

Black Box.9312:

Syn Sity.5826:

Exactly. Bosses in games shouldn’t have to conform to the way you like to play.

And neither should other players.

Juuuuuuuuuuust sayin’.

Actually, they do.

While we are free to play “how they want” we are just as free to play with “who we want”.

If player A wants to join a party advertised as “speed clear – max dps and experienced only” and that player is a shout heal warrior, they should not be surprised and have no right to complain if they find them self kicked as the party made it quite clear who they wanted to play with.

Same works in reverse if a party advertises as “full clear, no skips no stacking” anyone trying to force the party to do so shouldn’t be surprised or complain about if they are kicked.

That’s correct; you have the right to choose who you want to play with. But you don’t have the right to tell someone else how they should play their game. If someone is rolling a shout heal warrior in PvE and you don’t like that because it’s not DPS heavy enough for you, that’s kittening terrific. Find someone else to play with and let them do their thing with a different group. It’s really not a difficult concept, but it seems to be elusive to many of the ‘elite’ in this game, which is quite sad.

Also, before this veers too far off-topic, I’d like to also add that stacking on its own is most definitely not an exploit. The ‘exploit’ involving stacking is when it’s used to push an enemy into a corner so that when they try to back away from the player they just run into the corner and don’t actually move anywhere.

If you’ve ever fought subject alpha without first pulling him into the corner, you’ll find that even upon stacking on him he will back away between attacks so that they will hit their intended target. I haven’t really tested the same on the queen spider, but my guess is that it would work in a similar fashion if all 5 players stacked on it out in the open.

Therefore, the stacking itself is hardly an issue. Like others have already stated, it’s simply a tactic used to avoid attacks that have a minimum range. But forcing the boss into a corner to render it unable to effectively move (and undoubtedly to make way for other things like FGS 4 into a corner) is most definitely an abuse of flawed game design.

“Hey guys i can’t get past this boss, i’m using strat X and gear Y”
- Ah, it’s easy change your strat to V and gear to Z, don’t forget to stay on melee and swap some utilit-
“I PLAY HOW I WANT”.

Black Box.9312:

That’s correct; you have the right to choose who you want to play with. But you don’t have the right to tell someone else how they should play their game. If someone is rolling a shout heal warrior in PvE and you don’t like that because it’s not DPS heavy enough for you, that’s kittening terrific. Find someone else to play with and let them do their thing with a different group. It’s really not a difficult concept, but it seems to be elusive to many of the ‘elite’ in this game, which is quite sad.

deSade.9437:

Yet, they do.
They complain in whisper, then head to the forum and complain there.

That’s just the thing. I doubt many of the people you’re calling “elite” care what casuals do. When they do care is when a person (shout heal warrior to continue the example) joins a party that they clearly do not meet the advertised specifications for (max dps/speed run) and complain via whispers/forums for being kicked.

This becomes even worse when said person proceeds to try to defend their build as viable for that type of run. That is when their build is going to get torn apart by the “elite” players because that player is trying to prove their ability of joining the “elite” runs – something they don’t meet the qualifications for.

If instead they’d recognize that those players wanted nothing to do with their playstyle and made/joined groups advertised plainly as “path # any welcome” they would receive no criticism to their build/playstyle.

It’s not about telling people how to play the game, it’s about telling people how they want to play the game if they want to play with a select group of people.

durend.6237:

Black Box.9312:

That’s correct; you have the right to choose who you want to play with. But you don’t have the right to tell someone else how they should play their game. If someone is rolling a shout heal warrior in PvE and you don’t like that because it’s not DPS heavy enough for you, that’s kittening terrific. Find someone else to play with and let them do their thing with a different group. It’s really not a difficult concept, but it seems to be elusive to many of the ‘elite’ in this game, which is quite sad.

deSade.9437:

Yet, they do.
They complain in whisper, then head to the forum and complain there.

That’s just the thing. I doubt many of the people you’re calling “elite” care what casuals do. When they do care is when a person (shout heal warrior to continue the example) joins a party that they clearly do not meet the advertised specifications for (max dps/speed run) and complain via whispers/forums for being kicked.

This becomes even worse when said person proceeds to try to defend their build as viable for that type of run. That is when their build is going to get torn apart by the “elite” players because that player is trying to prove their ability of joining the “elite” runs – something they don’t meet the qualifications for.

If instead they’d recognize that those players wanted nothing to do with their playstyle and made/joined groups advertised plainly as “path # any welcome” they would receive no criticism to their build/playstyle.

It’s not about telling people how to play the game, it’s about telling people how they want to play the game if they want to play with a select group of people.

Then block them and move on. Fighting fire with fire just makes everyone look childish.

durend.6237:

Black Box.9312:

That’s correct; you have the right to choose who you want to play with. But you don’t have the right to tell someone else how they should play their game. If someone is rolling a shout heal warrior in PvE and you don’t like that because it’s not DPS heavy enough for you, that’s kittening terrific. Find someone else to play with and let them do their thing with a different group. It’s really not a difficult concept, but it seems to be elusive to many of the ‘elite’ in this game, which is quite sad.

deSade.9437:

Yet, they do.
They complain in whisper, then head to the forum and complain there.

That’s just the thing. I doubt many of the people you’re calling “elite” care what casuals do. When they do care is when a person (shout heal warrior to continue the example) joins a party that they clearly do not meet the advertised specifications for (max dps/speed run) and complain via whispers/forums for being kicked.

This becomes even worse when said person proceeds to try to defend their build as viable for that type of run. That is when their build is going to get torn apart by the “elite” players because that player is trying to prove their ability of joining the “elite” runs – something they don’t meet the qualifications for.

If instead they’d recognize that those players wanted nothing to do with their playstyle and made/joined groups advertised plainly as “path # any welcome” they would receive no criticism to their build/playstyle.

It’s not about telling people how to play the game, it’s about telling people how they want to play the game if they want to play with a select group of people.

“No criticism” may be a bit of an exaggeration, but yeah generally speaking you’re right. If they did play in their own groups and didn’t complain about being kicked from speedrun groups by the elitists, I doubt most of us would say anything about it. But you cannot deny there are a select few who do not even see that as reasonable, and still like to berate people for not agreeing with every idea in their head.

But yeah, pretty much what oxxy said is perfect. When you play video games, you aren’t supposed to be able to do whatever you want with whatever classes/builds you want. This game actually gives you way more freedom than any other in that aspect. Play any other game and you will see just how far you will get playing how you want. You are given alot of freedom in this game, but people need to accept that to defeat some bosses there has to/should be some tactical thinking involved. I remember playing console games, where to proceed there would be literally one single way to get through a level/area and you had to do that exact thing or you would be stuck. I’m not sure what games people have been playing but never in the history of gaming have you been able to complete every single aspect of a game by playing however you want.

I couldn’t care less about what builds people want to run. If you find it enjoyable, go for it. Just don’t go telling me or others how it’s the best build ever. Play how you want, but don’t advertise it as more than it is.

Black Box.9312:

durend.6237:

Black Box.9312:

That’s correct; you have the right to choose who you want to play with. But you don’t have the right to tell someone else how they should play their game. If someone is rolling a shout heal warrior in PvE and you don’t like that because it’s not DPS heavy enough for you, that’s kittening terrific. Find someone else to play with and let them do their thing with a different group. It’s really not a difficult concept, but it seems to be elusive to many of the ‘elite’ in this game, which is quite sad.

deSade.9437:

Yet, they do.
They complain in whisper, then head to the forum and complain there.

That’s just the thing. I doubt many of the people you’re calling “elite” care what casuals do. When they do care is when a person (shout heal warrior to continue the example) joins a party that they clearly do not meet the advertised specifications for (max dps/speed run) and complain via whispers/forums for being kicked.

This becomes even worse when said person proceeds to try to defend their build as viable for that type of run. That is when their build is going to get torn apart by the “elite” players because that player is trying to prove their ability of joining the “elite” runs – something they don’t meet the qualifications for.

If instead they’d recognize that those players wanted nothing to do with their playstyle and made/joined groups advertised plainly as “path # any welcome” they would receive no criticism to their build/playstyle.

It’s not about telling people how to play the game, it’s about telling people how they want to play the game if they want to play with a select group of people.

Then block them and move on. Fighting fire with fire just makes everyone look childish.

If only forums have a blocking function.

Spider Queen’s weakness hurts

Saulius.8430:

Captain Swag.5893:

Bosses normally have these things called “mechanics” that require you to do something other than standing still, mashing one button. Maybe a dodge here, or a cleanse there. Many of these are easier to dodge when far away

ok, so spider queen got ‘mechanic’, to spit on targets outside her melee range
which is easier:

• dodging aoe circles at range
• staying inside melee range, preventing aoe circle to happen all together

P.S. plot twist, both require certain skill level. and i’d argue that dealing with bosses’ melee attacks often needs more

That might be true about dodging melee attacks but in this case the potential damage from the range attacks seems much greater.

As for the whole stacking thing. Seems like the devs are okay with it. Why else would they have changed the Megadestroyer to give it similar mechanics?

There’s nothing to fix if 99% of the population is ok with it. You said that it’s NOT ok to use a method if it screws over the rest of the group. By your percentage 1 out of ever 99 people will suffer. changing it to your style 99 people will potentially suffer so 1 person can benefit, which really isn’t much of a benefit since people will just not do those paths and/or skip that boss if possible.

Feel free to unstack and die, we’ll rez you after we kill the boss.

Obviously not, if you keep getting threads like this.

‘Not enough people are complaining’ is a terrible reason to try and keep something crappy from being improved. And thank god for that, or we’d all still be grinding
CoF Path 1.

Keiel.7489:

There’s nothing to fix if 99% of the population is ok with it. You said that it’s NOT ok to use a method if it screws over the rest of the group. By your percentage 1 out of ever 99 people will suffer. changing it to your style 99 people will potentially suffer so 1 person can benefit, which really isn’t much of a benefit since people will just not do those paths and/or skip that boss if possible.

Feel free to unstack and die, we’ll rez you after we kill the boss.

That would imply stacking is the only way to survive which is definitely not true.

There is a key difference between stacking behind a pillar for the spider queen, kholer, and standing at the pillar for Colossus:

Spider Queen and Kholer are not exploits because:
Stacking at the pilalr doesn’t remove any part of the encounter, the poison well is used by the spider only as a gap closer (when anyone is further than melee range), stacking behind the pillar puts everyone in melee range, you could arguably not use the pillar and have everyone be in melee in her own room, the exact same for Kholer, he uses his grapple as a gap closer, if everyone stays in melee, he’ll never use it

This makes stacking an overwhelmingly easy strategy that pays off way too often, but it isn’t an exploit, still, an easy way to make those fights more “as intended” would be to simply to make the bosses use their AOE at regular interval, rather than only based on distance.

Why the pillar in the Colossus Rumblus fight is an exploit:
You stand in a spot where the rocks are completely unable to fall at, this remove the entire point of having Warmaster Grast, as the whole fight resolves around Grast’s shield.

Do you see the difference? In both cases, it’s an unintended strategy, but in one the fight still happens as intended, while in the other, it doesn’t.

Again, a simple way to fix this is to make bosses use their AOEs as regular part of their attacks, rather than using them as gap closers only, and, of course, to fix the actual exploits we know of, like the Colossus pillar.

I’ve always wondered why what Bragdras said isn’t the case. Why wont the spider just use all of its abilities all the time. Or why don’t boulders fall in that little corner at Rumblus? I think they are just oversights. Little things that just got left out of the code.

The thing about the Colossus fight

Even though you are using an overhang in the pillar to keep the rocks off of you. the big lizard can still come up to you and hit you like a truck, done in the open room it has a nasty knockback that will last you outside of the kind warmasters shield.

So what do most do? they stack with a wall to THIER backs, so WHEN they get hit, they get knocked back INTO the wall.

I am sorry but I still don’t see it as an “exploit”.

Ropechef.6192:

The thing about the Colossus fight

Even though you are using an overhang in the pillar to keep the rocks off of you. the big lizard can still come up to you and hit you like a truck, done in the open room it has a nasty knockback that will last you outside of the kind warmasters shield.

So what do most do? they stack with a wall to THIER backs, so WHEN they get hit, they get knocked back INTO the wall.

I am sorry but I still don’t see it as an “exploit”.

The exploit part is that falling rocks cannot land on that particular corner, this makes a part of the fight completely meaningless (and renders Warmaster Grast’s shield useless).

If you’d stand next to a wall but the rocks could land on you and you’d have to be protected by Grast’s bubble, then it wouldn’t be an exploit, just a way to circumvent people not taking stability or not being able to dodge.

Captain Swag.5893:

If ONE problem happens, the group wipes due to AoE poison from the spider queen, AoE from the Howling King, or mobs, or Kohler’s AoE, or whatever else. And then the group falls apart, and nobody is having fun..

Get a better guardian.

Bla bla bla. I had no problem fighting the spider with my crappy staff ele who was traited in pure healing when i first started running AC and I have no problem with stacking now.

Before the spider stacking thing, everyone would just aoe the tiny spiders at the back of the room. The AOE circles from the boss is easy enough to avoid and dodge unless she immobilizes you.

Stop asking Anet to “fix” it when it is not broken. If you want to kill the spider without stacking, find a group who would be interested in that. Seeing that this sort of thread pops up so often, I am sure you will find people to run it with you.

Warcry.1596:

I’ve always wondered why what Bragdras said isn’t the case. Why wont the spider just use all of its abilities all the time. Or why don’t boulders fall in that little corner at Rumblus? I think they are just oversights. Little things that just got left out of the code.

It is probably different for the spider but in the case of the the rocks it is probably because all the AoE circles are the same radius and the circles are too big to fit into that corner.

If you’ve ever fought subject alpha without first pulling him into the corner, you’ll find that even upon stacking on him he will back away between attacks so that they will hit their intended target.

Sortof. The only attack that fails in very close quarters is the earth attack. He only backs away like this in paths 1 and 3 right before he uses the attack. The fire and ice attacks both hit in melee range and the ice attack wipes bad groups who stack and can’t dodge.

The real problem is that the boss AI is terrible and Alpha’s attacks and movements are totally predictable and boring. He will use the earth attack on a schedule and will use it regardless of whether or not it can actually hit anyone.

Imagine the PUG tears if they tried to stack on him in path 1 and he just ran far out to the middle of the room and popped two earth attacks in a row.

@serialkicker , don’t get angry . Yes I don’t want stacking to be fixed because otherwise some paths will become unpugable . Trust me once I get my computer back and farm the remaining 1k gold for twilight , whatever they do with those dungeons , I don’t care , but for now keep stacking boi.

Spider queen, i was under the impression that since its ranged attack was so strong the idea was to melee it to not trigger the attack. This concept has been around since the 8 Bit days I think Mega Man taught me this lesson. So ideally you’d want the players and the boss to stay in one spot, stacking reinforces that. Otherwise someone breaks rank and runs around the spider gives chase, the other players are swatting the air and might can’t be stacked because the fire field is way over there.

Rumblus, again is sort of an old boss concept, in which boss attacks would take up 95% of the screen and if you got hit you died instantly but there were safe spots you could stand in to avoid it. Now I know Grast has a dome that he can pop up and honestly its not that hard to stay in the dome and survive and win the encounter. That aside whether you stand in the dome or next to the pillar you’re still confined to a small space to move around in, the boss can hit you in either but everyone is clumped together in that one spot so what’s the difference you’re pretty much stacking either way? As long as you keep Grast alive (not difficult) he always pops the dome before the rocks fall so this isn’t an exploit to avoid the rocks.

Rarely is there a single solution to a real world problem, but even more so rare are instances in which the most efficient way to deal with a problem is not used. That’s kind of what separates people from everything else on this planet. We got really good at solving problems efficiently.

There was a wise robot that once said he would build his own casino with black jack and hookers, I suggest you do the same OP.

Make it known to all when you make your party that you don’t want to do anything you consider an exploit and that there will be no stacking on any bosses and enjoy your results. In fact that sounds like a great homework assignment, why don’t you come back with some screen shots and show us how it went?

draconx.3102:

If you’ve ever fought subject alpha without first pulling him into the corner, you’ll find that even upon stacking on him he will back away between attacks so that they will hit their intended target.

Sortof. The only attack that fails in very close quarters is the earth attack. He only backs away like this in paths 1 and 3 right before he uses the attack. The fire and ice attacks both hit in melee range and the ice attack wipes bad groups who stack and can’t dodge.

The real problem is that the boss AI is terrible and Alpha’s attacks and movements are totally predictable and boring. He will use the earth attack on a schedule and will use it regardless of whether or not it can actually hit anyone.

Imagine the PUG tears if they tried to stack on him in path 1 and he just ran far out to the middle of the room and popped two earth attacks in a row.

That was kind of the point I was trying to make, but I suppose maybe I didn’t word it quite clearly enough.

Captain Swag.5893:

THIS. THIS. THIS.

People are SO lazy that something EXTREMELY trivial becomes possibly a HUGE hassle, that wipes the entire group. THAT is the issue, here.
It’s not meant to be done to begin with, so why not fix it, and save some people some time and energy? To MAYBE spare you 30 seconds of your day, and so that you don’t need to pay attention? Oh, screw off.

Well, that’s not so much laziness, but people mindlessly following what they see others do, without understanding why…

I’ve had the worst pug experiences in AC…

I don’t see what’s wrong with spider queen though, you still have to dodge/block or manage conditions consistently throughout the fight. It’s a tradeoff, you can more easily avoid the immobilize and bite from range, but must deal with the poison AOE.

Your problem lies with people who don’t think, not the mechanic of stacking.

What would be your ‘solution’ to this ‘problem’? It really just sounds like you want to range everything, since your argument really boils down to an anti-melee argument.

Black Box.9312:

Saulius.8430:

ranged(sitting 900-1200 away) players don’t get aoe boons (most utilities and aoe combos have small effect radius), cannot effectively revive or be revived, does less damage in general (with few exceptions)

so why would one choose to play ranged in coordinated small group(dungeons)?

its hilarious when 4 players got banner buffs, fury, 25stacks of might, and there is that one ranger standing 1500 away w/o any buffs, and later complains why no one wants him

Honestly, all this proves is that distance-based damage mechanics are incredibly dumb, which we’ve (or at least I have) known from the beginning. While I typically don’t have a problem with stacking in most cases, it just seems so contradictory of Anet to rave about this risk/reward setup between melee and ranged only to ruin it with bosses like the spider queen and subject alpha.

Long story short: Just more proof that Anet needs to get their dungeon design kitten together.

Alpha is higher risk and higher reward at melee. You are guaranteed to be standing on the ice spike. At range spider does more damage, in melee you can’t run out of its range if you get too low.

Yeah but, who cares about getting downed when you’re in spitting distance of four other people? Getting downed in melee is just about the least scariest thing ever.

Every been downed in melee next to mossman? ive seen to many situations go from bad to worse due to the moss cleave and people trying to res.

Player Character.9467:

Black Box.9312:

Saulius.8430:

ranged(sitting 900-1200 away) players don’t get aoe boons (most utilities and aoe combos have small effect radius), cannot effectively revive or be revived, does less damage in general (with few exceptions)

so why would one choose to play ranged in coordinated small group(dungeons)?

its hilarious when 4 players got banner buffs, fury, 25stacks of might, and there is that one ranger standing 1500 away w/o any buffs, and later complains why no one wants him

Honestly, all this proves is that distance-based damage mechanics are incredibly dumb, which we’ve (or at least I have) known from the beginning. While I typically don’t have a problem with stacking in most cases, it just seems so contradictory of Anet to rave about this risk/reward setup between melee and ranged only to ruin it with bosses like the spider queen and subject alpha.

Long story short: Just more proof that Anet needs to get their dungeon design kitten together.

Alpha is higher risk and higher reward at melee. You are guaranteed to be standing on the ice spike. At range spider does more damage, in melee you can’t run out of its range if you get too low.

Alpha is NOT higher risk when stacked on, because 2 of his 3 potential attacks cannot hit a target that is on top of him.

I used to do a daily leveling run of AC p3 with my ele (a lot of the path’s duration is not governed by DPS, making it ideal for lowies).
The spider’s melee attack can be quite an issue for a group of lowies and first-timers (not to mention people who will not quite do what they agreed to do and get everyone killed). Killing it in the open was easier most of the time. If everyone melees, she still doesn’t use her ranged attack. If she does, people who cannot dodge the circles die alone, which isn’t really a problem if we’re talking about that lvl 37 thief who is in a dungeon for their first time.
So next time when you’re in AC with a lowlvl pug, be open minded and let the newbies see the actual mechanics instead of memorised exploits (if you don’t understand it, it’s an exploit), if you see your party wiping due to insufficient dps/cleanse/protection/heal or people running around.

btw, I didn’t know the Collosus’ boulders wouldn’t hit you in the corner. I thought it was just to counter that annoying knockback. That said, I enjoy when he decides to stand behind the corner instead, so we can exploit my Fiery Greatsword rush

Alpha was hell back when pugs didn’t do stacking (when you still could WP and run back to the fight when you died).

Black Box.9312:

Player Character.9467:

Black Box.9312:

Saulius.8430:

ranged(sitting 900-1200 away) players don’t get aoe boons (most utilities and aoe combos have small effect radius), cannot effectively revive or be revived, does less damage in general (with few exceptions)

so why would one choose to play ranged in coordinated small group(dungeons)?

its hilarious when 4 players got banner buffs, fury, 25stacks of might, and there is that one ranger standing 1500 away w/o any buffs, and later complains why no one wants him

Honestly, all this proves is that distance-based damage mechanics are incredibly dumb, which we’ve (or at least I have) known from the beginning. While I typically don’t have a problem with stacking in most cases, it just seems so contradictory of Anet to rave about this risk/reward setup between melee and ranged only to ruin it with bosses like the spider queen and subject alpha.

Long story short: Just more proof that Anet needs to get their dungeon design kitten together.

Alpha is higher risk and higher reward at melee. You are guaranteed to be standing on the ice spike. At range spider does more damage, in melee you can’t run out of its range if you get too low.

Alpha is NOT higher risk when stacked on, because 2 of his 3 potential attacks cannot hit a target that is on top of him.

And if you range and side step at all times you also completely avoid 2 of his 3 potential attacks.

Kiting is clearly an exploit, I’ll be adding this to the list thanks Wethospu.

swiftpaw.6397:

Kiting is clearly an exploit, I’ll be adding this to the list thanks Wethospu.

God bless.

Delay.6908:

Every been downed in melee next to mossman? ive seen to many situations go from bad to worse due to the moss cleave and people trying to res.

Can recall being wiped in under 5 seconds several times at mossman, when the team was balled. No one even has to be downed, mossman is just a monster.

People who think stacking is some ungodly broken tactic should go stack when mossman stealths, hola when you pick the dirt out of your teeth.

>Stacking in melee is an exploit because bosses don’t use some of their skills
>Probably stacks range at Lupicus to avoid getting kicked and is punished less for not dodging grubs.

This is something I don’t understand.

Why did Anet intentionally make it so she only uses her ranged attack when there’s someone in range?

If you look at mobs that have, and only attack with, a bow. They don’t start meleeing you when you’re up in their face. They continue to shoot arrows or bullets at you.

Why? Because that’s how they’re programmed. If Anet wanted the Spider Queen Boss to use her ranged attack on people who are in melee range, then they would have coded her that way.

Taking that into consideration. It’s not an exploit, but a mechanic of the boss, and it’s intended.

/thread

Sarathor.2409:

This is something I don’t understand.

Why did Anet intentionally make it so she only uses her ranged attack when there’s someone in range?

If you look at mobs that have, and only attack with, a bow. They don’t start meleeing you when you’re up in their face. They continue to shoot arrows or bullets at you.

Why? Because that’s how they’re programmed. If Anet wanted the Spider Queen Boss to use her ranged attack on people who are in melee range, then they would have coded her that way.

Taking that into consideration. It’s not an exploit, but a mechanic of the boss, and it’s intended.

/thread

That’s logic.

BURN THE WITCH!

Wethospu.6437:

Sarathor.2409:

This is something I don’t understand.

Why did Anet intentionally make it so she only uses her ranged attack when there’s someone in range?

If you look at mobs that have, and only attack with, a bow. They don’t start meleeing you when you’re up in their face. They continue to shoot arrows or bullets at you.

Why? Because that’s how they’re programmed. If Anet wanted the Spider Queen Boss to use her ranged attack on people who are in melee range, then they would have coded her that way.

Taking that into consideration. It’s not an exploit, but a mechanic of the boss, and it’s intended.

/thread

That’s logic.

BURN THE WITCH!

Not trying to defend the counterpoint, but with this kind of logic we can conclude that the myriad of exploits in arah are intended, that the door exploit in CE is intended, etc.
There is a difference between avoiding an attack and preventing an attack.
My decision rule is role-play plausibility: is it plausible that a creature would decide not to use one if its ability based on enemy range? My answer is yes. Is it plausible that enemies would decide to pack-up and follow their foes into corridors not large enough for their bodies? Nope.
Then comes the issue of feasibility, but that is an other problem.

Wethospu.6437:

Black Box.9312:

Player Character.9467:

Black Box.9312:

Saulius.8430:

ranged(sitting 900-1200 away) players don’t get aoe boons (most utilities and aoe combos have small effect radius), cannot effectively revive or be revived, does less damage in general (with few exceptions)

so why would one choose to play ranged in coordinated small group(dungeons)?

its hilarious when 4 players got banner buffs, fury, 25stacks of might, and there is that one ranger standing 1500 away w/o any buffs, and later complains why no one wants him

Honestly, all this proves is that distance-based damage mechanics are incredibly dumb, which we’ve (or at least I have) known from the beginning. While I typically don’t have a problem with stacking in most cases, it just seems so contradictory of Anet to rave about this risk/reward setup between melee and ranged only to ruin it with bosses like the spider queen and subject alpha.

Long story short: Just more proof that Anet needs to get their dungeon design kitten together.

Alpha is higher risk and higher reward at melee. You are guaranteed to be standing on the ice spike. At range spider does more damage, in melee you can’t run out of its range if you get too low.

Alpha is NOT higher risk when stacked on, because 2 of his 3 potential attacks cannot hit a target that is on top of him.

And if you range and side step at all times you also completely avoid 2 of his 3 potential attacks.

When you stack you avoid those attacks without sidestepping. Less effort for the same result, therefore less risky.