Guild Wars 2

Are dungeon discussions ever going to make it into a CDI threads? I just looked through CDI and the main feedback threads. But didn’t see any mention of dungeons. Is there a reason why all suggestions and discussions are only occurring within this sub-forum?

Probably because even ANet knows if they gave everyone access to it, 3/4th of the posts would be “fix stacking”, “nerf berserker”, “make x easier” etc.?

Honestly though, I don’t know.

We were asked by Regina to compile info here for the devs to easily be able to read. There is a single competitive content team which does not have dungeons on its table for the near future. We were told it is possible there could be some minor changes to dungeons, and also things we would like to see improved. Hence all the suggestion threads.

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

Probably because even ANet knows if they gave everyone access to it, 3/4th of the posts would be “fix stacking”, “nerf berserker”, “make x easier” etc.?

Which is why I hope they rather ask known (hardcore) dungeon guilds. Othwerwise you get feedback from people who have done ~5 dungeons in their lifetime

Cheezy.2039:

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

Probably because even ANet knows if they gave everyone access to it, 3/4th of the posts would be “fix stacking”, “nerf berserker”, “make x easier” etc.?

Which is why I hope they rather ask known (hardcore) dungeon guilds. Othwerwise you get feedback from people who have done ~5 dungeons in their lifetime

Guess which of those 2 is their target audience.

Cheezy.2039:

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

Probably because even ANet knows if they gave everyone access to it, 3/4th of the posts would be “fix stacking”, “nerf berserker”, “make x easier” etc.?

Which is why I hope they rather ask known (hardcore) dungeon guilds. Othwerwise you get feedback from people who have done ~5 dungeons in their lifetime

I don’t. Hardcore guilds are out of touch with 99.9% of the community. I’ve done my share of speedruns to varying extents of try-hard levels but I would never delude myself that the majority of players want to play like that. If you look at suggestions people put out here it’s often : “make it faster, skip cutscenes, removing anything timegated, etc”. (Note : not saying all feedback is like this or bad, there’s been decent feedback too.)

That is not the general community. Just look at the aetherpath suggestions. If you think the general community hate aetherpath because of cutscenes… it’s hated because it’s pretty long but also because it’s more difficult and not as forgiving as other dungeons.

ArenaNET should be aiming to increase dungeons’ lifespan by making as many people as they can interested in them, not just a small percentage of the community.

Again it all boils down to incentives. If aetherpath gave a better chance of dropping their skins, even if account bound, people would flock to that path. Flock I say.!

Kurr.4179:

Cheezy.2039:

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

Probably because even ANet knows if they gave everyone access to it, 3/4th of the posts would be “fix stacking”, “nerf berserker”, “make x easier” etc.?

Which is why I hope they rather ask known (hardcore) dungeon guilds. Othwerwise you get feedback from people who have done ~5 dungeons in their lifetime

I don’t. Hardcore guilds are out of touch with 99.9% of the community. I’ve done my share of speedruns to varying extents of try-hard levels but I would never delude myself that the majority of players want to play like that. If you look at suggestions people put out here it’s often : “make it faster, skip cutscenes, removing anything timegated, etc”. (Note : not saying all feedback is like this or bad, there’s been decent feedback too.)

Wrong. Hardcore guilds are the most important voice to listen to when balancing and improving content because they are the ones that probably know of all the unbalances and exploits and have the experience to speak to how to improve things. Some random newbie who’s barely done any dungeons is the last voice I’d listen to in order to improve my content.

As an example who would you rather listen to in order to improve soccer in terms of balance and gameplay? Pro Soccer players who’s won the world cup that knows the game inside and out or some random amateurs that play pickup soccer on weekends?

Well, these suggestions threads needs more exposure if they can some how end up as a CDI topic. We should consider both the casual and the hardcore dungeon groups if we are to make any sort of progress.

Everyone who looks at this forum was asked for their input as far as suggestions for current dungeons and future things they would like to see. Most of us who have been participating have been discussing ways to improve dungeons for everyone. The topics have been put where they need to, since this is something that is being relayed directly to the competitive team so think of it as a CDI for a smaller community.
Kurr made a valid point, there is a lot of feedback coming from the hardcore dungeon running community that is solely focused on making everything more speedclear friendly, improving it for them and not the game community as a whole. Others are taking it more seriously and sharing their extensive knowledge of bugs, broken mechanics, and tedious fights to try and improve dungeons for everyone overall. Digitalkirin has a thread devoted to how bosses and paths could be improved for future dungeons, and the Arah thread is loaded with very good suggestions. While the hardcore community is a valuable resource it isn’t the most important one, it is of equal importance between them and the casual dungeon runners (if they post anything), cause finding out what their impediments are outside of general lack of skill is just as important as everything else. The entire reason dungeons have been neglected is the small percentage of players that frequent them. If there is a way to get more of the community without adjusting the actual difficulty its worth putting that info in front of the devs.
No one promised Anet was going to do anything, but doing nothing will accomplish nothing so some of us are trying to get the information together as Regina asked.

Kurr.4179:

If you think the general community hate aetherpath because of cutscenes… it’s hated because it’s pretty long but also because it’s more difficult and not as forgiving as other dungeons.

This is exactly what I mean. I’ve ran a good amount of Aetherpath and it’s not longer than Arah P4 if everybody knows what he is doing. And Arah P4 is run a considerable amount. You can’t compare it to CoF P1 and such but it’s still popular enough to get a group going.

Of course it is not as forgiving as other dungeons. But so is Arah. I don’t see the reason for a rarely run Aetherpath in its difficulty or length. I’d say the things that make Aetherpath frustrating are the overload of puzzles and unskippable cutscenes. At some point you get used to it but it is frustrating nontheless

Thanks Regina.

I also want to say that it’s better (in my very biased opinion) for our Feedback to not be in a CDI. None of us wants a repeat of the Fractal CDI, where people who knew 0 about fractals submitted feedback about… like, crafting in a fractal, to make content they’ve never played better. We don’t need that.

Our suggestion threads, assuming they yet to the proper hands, do not have this issue ^^

Thank you for the clarification Regina.

Is it possible to get any feedback to the dungeon community regarding how they interpret the feedback threads we’re trying to put together? It would be nice to know they’re getting eyes on them before they lose steam.

Shinki.8045:

Thank you for the clarification Regina.

Is it possible to get any feedback to the dungeon community regarding how they interpret the feedback threads we’re trying to put together? It would be nice to know they’re getting eyes on them before they lose steam.

“Nice to know,” of course. But we shouldn’t expect that ANet can comment on every thread. Based on changes to the game, we’ve seen that ANet has utilized ideas from even obscure posts without discussion and sometimes ignored ideas with a core support group (e.g. mounts), since they are always trying to do what’s best for their vision of the game.

I always post assuming that someone at ANet reads and is clever enough to figure out which devs and designers (if any) should take a look. I never expect a response, so I’m always pleased if there is one.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Thanks Regina.

I also want to say that it’s better (in my very biased opinion) for our Feedback to not be in a CDI. None of us wants a repeat of the Fractal CDI, where people who knew 0 about fractals submitted feedback about… like, crafting in a fractal, to make content they’ve never played better. We don’t need that.

Our suggestion threads, assuming they yet to the proper hands, do not have this issue ^^

IMO, this is happening regardless of where the posts are being created. I know you and a few others have been consolidating info to a better/cleaner thread for dev’s to see, and kudos to you guys for doing that. But other than that, even in the dungeon group discussions threads, we have discrepancies, and it’s hard to tell whether there are trolls or not…

PandorasBane.2319:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Thanks Regina.

I also want to say that it’s better (in my very biased opinion) for our Feedback to not be in a CDI. None of us wants a repeat of the Fractal CDI, where people who knew 0 about fractals submitted feedback about… like, crafting in a fractal, to make content they’ve never played better. We don’t need that.

Our suggestion threads, assuming they yet to the proper hands, do not have this issue ^^

IMO, this is happening regardless of where the posts are being created. I know you and a few others have been consolidating info to a better/cleaner thread for dev’s to see, and kudos to you guys for doing that. But other than that, even in the dungeon group discussions threads, we have discrepancies, and it’s hard to tell whether there are trolls or not…

It is no where near the level of absurdity that was present in the fractal cdi. I implore you to check it out. It’s like… you feel like you’re in the twilight zone when reading it.

Now I’m really curious as to what it said…. I wasn’t into fractals when that came around.

IvanTheGrey.2941:

Now I’m really curious as to what it said…. I wasn’t into fractals when that came around.

An example: a community member suggested that at the ice boss, an option be made to go around gathering wood to craft into planks to set on fire as an alternative to fighting the boss.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

IvanTheGrey.2941:

Now I’m really curious as to what it said…. I wasn’t into fractals when that came around.

An example: a community member suggested that at the ice boss, an option be made to go around gathering wood to craft into planks to set on fire as an alternative to fighting the boss.

What… wow. Just… wow.

Lilith…. why….. I’m just gonna take your word for it from now on.

Anyway Regina, I think that the next CDI that’s even remotely concerning anything to do with dungeons or fractals should be held in the dungeon sub-forum.

Regina Buenaobra.6193:

If a part of the game you care about (not just dungeons, but generally as well) is not part of a CDI discussion, this doesn’t mean that the developers will not listen to or accept feedback outside the CDI. This is really important to remember, because I think the CDI has been raised up to a rarefied level in the minds of some members of the community, and people might feel that no one will listen unless a thread is labeled “CDI.” I just want to make it clear that the CDI is not the team’s only place to listen to you all.

I think the way a lot of people feel is: “devs don’t even listen to CDI, they’re definitely not going to pay attention to anything outside CDI.”

It’s more like a lot of people’s feel is: “devs didn’t give a kitten about dungeon for two years, especially not to suggestions, if it isn’t even mentioned in the CDI now, why would that change”.

(Dungeons in) This game are/is deadlier than dead. Two years of too much bullkitten and yet no insight, as expected.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

IvanTheGrey.2941:

Now I’m really curious as to what it said…. I wasn’t into fractals when that came around.

An example: a community member suggested that at the ice boss, an option be made to go around gathering wood to craft into planks to set on fire as an alternative to fighting the boss.

Actually… I don’t think that’s such a bad idea. XD It’s basically a similar mechanic to the “light the fire to melt the ice wall” portion. It’s not like we don’t already have bosses that have to be hurt via indirect tactics (e.g. Jade Maw, Iron Forgeman). I actually would not mind that particular fight being changed so that the Ice Elemental is also damaged each second by each bonfire that’s lit. You can also attack the boss directly for extra damage, but the quickest way to beat him would be to keep all four bonfires lit and then defend the bonfires from the summoned Ice Elementals who try to extinguish it.

Um, wait… Unless you’re talking about the Rampaging Ice Elemental at the end of the Dredge fractal?

Lilith Ajit.6173:

IvanTheGrey.2941:

Now I’m really curious as to what it said…. I wasn’t into fractals when that came around.

An example: a community member suggested that at the ice boss, an option be made to go around gathering wood to craft into planks to set on fire as an alternative to fighting the boss.

why not but the path to the firewood would be pre patch dredge fract.

Regina Buenaobra.6193:

If a part of the game you care about (not just dungeons, but generally as well) is not part of a CDI discussion, this doesn’t mean that the developers will not listen to or accept feedback outside the CDI. This is really important to remember, because I think the CDI has been raised up to a rarefied level in the minds of some members of the community, and people might feel that no one will listen unless a thread is labeled “CDI.” I just want to make it clear that the CDI is not the team’s only place to listen to you all.

But didn’t they disband the dungeon team?

What dungeon team? You mean bearhroudabow? He was fired for accidentally mentioning the word ‘dungeon’ in a meeting.

I kind of imagine that’s what necromancer balance meetings go like as well.

It’s nice and all but i really doubt anyone apart from a few passionate volunteer will be happy and believe this until we see some results.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

I kind of imagine that’s what necromancer balance meetings go like as well.

You mean 7/8 of the profession balance meetings, right? Because I suspect that everyone except for rangers are not happy.

As for the topic of CDIs for dungeons, the lack of any substantial updates to dungeons other than exploit fixing, random unannounced changes or additions to dungeons that change the completion time of a path, and lack of updates or reworks (Arah story mode comes to mind) may have been a cause for people to believe a CDI is what’s necessary for attention to be given to dungeons.