Guild Wars 2

Some friends and I went through the story and all the paths for Citadel of Flame this weekend. I’ve got to say I found this to be a really fun dungeon (and I love me some Rytlock), but path 3 seems unfair. I’d heard no one really does it, and now I can certainly atest to why.

I like the idea of path 3, being all sneaky, but if you get spotted and have to light the torches…most groups are kittened. The level of coordination required to get the mobs killed at the same time (because of the ungodly spawn rate) and then get the torches lit in the window is neigh-impossible using the in-game tools such as the chat window. Players have to rely on voice chat from outside the game, which is, IMHO, unfair to the players. And at least I was playing with friends! Imagine if you tried the path with people you’d just met.

I’m all for different paths featuring different challenges and types of gameplay, but I honestly believe CoF P3 requires some tweaking. At the very least the anecdotes that “Nobody ever plays it” should have the developers giving it an evil eye.

What do other folks think?

There are 5 torches, every torch is guarded by 3 mobs, you can all go in a big group and kill 2 mobs from each one.

Now everyone spread out, one person next to each torch, the “leader” write Go in the chat, when people see this. They’ll kill their 1 mob. When you’ve killed your mob your write Rdy in chat, when four people written Rdy in chat the “leader” knows that every1 is ready, now he writes Go again, when people see that they lit the torch.

There, it’s easy, people just need to use their heads.

I think you are right concerning the fact that is requires more from players than P1 or P2 but that’s it : it’s not too difficult. Everytime I’ve done it, I (we) have had lot of fun and the path provides better fights overall.

I think path 1 requires more challenge while path 2 is ok. But path 3 is definitely the best.

Concerning the torches, yeah it’s difficult but the respawn time is not too short. If I were to give some advices I would say :
Get a Guardian or Mesmer to Fire Imps to reflect or block their dmg.
Explain everyone they have to say rdy to finishing-blow mobs once they are weakened before you all do it.
Before everything : choose someone to chat 321go for torches. He will have to keep an eye on who’s ready or not (chat). Basically the one that is the closest to the exit because he will be able to see the 2 torches with Oozes.

That sounds really cool, Rob. If there were more enemies around each torch, but only three torches, then you’d have your really good dps take his own torch and the others get an extra player to support. I think that’s very awesome, and not as reliant on Ash Legion Spy Kits (ALSK) as the event is right now.

Seriously, about the ALSK’s, those things make this event amazingly easy! If everyone packs one, just synch when you use it as a team and you get the torch event done on the first try. I doubt you’d get this sort of coordination in pugs, but it’s really nice for guild runs.

i’ve done it, i like it, idk why people say that parts hard, hardest part imo has got to be the hold the ground part near the end

Robert Hrouda.1327:

Every time I hear about Spy Kits and Portal Guns, I cringe.

You should really get them out of dungeons, they’re doing a lot of harm to the game.

Haha Rob, as a player I think it really enhances the experience to have consumables like that which can give you the edge in otherwise difficult content. I wish there were more useful types of consumables like that, honestly.

Kill 2 of the three mobs at each torch.
Keep the final mob alive and ‘manage’ it without killing it or dying until everyone else is at the same spot.
Stay close to your torch, ready to hit F any time. Being able to hit F 90% of the time and managing one mob – that’s when you’re ready.
Someone counts down (probably the one at oozes).
Everyone hits F and pops instant blocks/stealths/reflects/distortion/etc right before the remaining mob hits you. The shots aren’t that frequent, they are slow and telegraphed. All mobs are ranged,

So if you’re an ele, kill 2 mobs, keep running left/right with the third one staying really close to the torch, and when everyone’s ready, hit F, then pop staff earth 3 (or just Mist Form – imba ele skill for such things). If you’re a mesmer, get 2-3 illusions up and pop Distortion while channeling the torch, so to speak. If you’re a thief, pop the stealth field utility skill before channeling. If you’re a guardian, pop the third virtue before being hit, or use Retreat for aegis. If you’re a warrior, use Fear Me! to interrupt the shot.
And so on.

More so, the mob at two torches (both oozes, i think) can be stuck between the rock which keeps the torch and the wall, so they stay there and keep shooting at you but keep hitting rocks and never go out from there. Makes it easy for the less organised players and/or professions with less instant control/aegis.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

Every time I hear about Spy Kits and Portal Guns, I cringe.

Lmao I hope this doesn’t foreshadow their removal!

You should really get them out of dungeons, they’re doing a lot of harm to the game.

Um, no.

azureai.9764:

I like the idea of path 3, being all sneaky, but if you get spotted and have to light the torches…

Wait, you can do this without being spotted ? How ?

Robert Hrouda.1327:

Path 3 torch event is pretty rough, even for our QA and people know how to do it. I have plans to soften it’s edges a bit (read: nerf), because I honestly can’t get a group to run the darn thing. It can often take long enough to do the first event that you could have done a whole other path if you are in a PuG.
My current plan is to drop it down to 3 torches, so two players who choose tanky/support roles won’t be so punished by the content, and then adjusting the way the spawns behave to provide more of a challenge. (Plans subject to change based on testing feedback)

So it is definite then, that explorable mode is supposed to be able to be handled with pugs. Why not go back to what you said before release and make the other two paths on par with path 3 in terms of difficulty?

People are asking for harder dungeons, not easier ones.

Power.2957:

Pinch.4273

You should really get them out of dungeons, they’re doing a lot of harm to the game.

Um, no.

You can avoid every non-combat event in the game with a spy kit. Do you think it is skillful and adds to the game by being allowed to get past content that your group might not be capable of doing?

Example 1: Snowblind fractal. The Svanir waves at the first big bonfire are actually quite dangerous when you get to high difficulties, but it doesn’t matter, because you can just spy kit and do it without killing anything.

Example 2: Dredge. The button cage event is also pretty difficult when you get higher up, but same thing, spy kit and don’t kill a thing.

Example 3: Stealth ressing. You are almost never threatened by a party wipe when you can just stealth res anyone that dies.

And who knows what else it will trivialize in the future.

Pinch.4273:

Power.2957:

Pinch.4273

You should really get them out of dungeons, they’re doing a lot of harm to the game.

Um, no.

You can avoid every non-combat event in the game with a spy kit. Do you think it is skillful and adds to the game by being allowed to get past content that your group might not be capable of doing?

Example 1: Snowblind fractal. The Svanir waves at the first big bonfire are actually quite dangerous when you get to high difficulties, but it doesn’t matter, because you can just spy kit and do it without killing anything.

Example 2: Dredge. The button cage event is also pretty difficult when you get higher up, but same thing, spy kit and don’t kill a thing.

Example 3: Stealth ressing. You are almost never threatened by a party wipe when you can just stealth res anyone that dies.

And who knows what else it will trivialize in the future.

Example 1; You can just corpse run, light the bonfire, die, repeat and accomplish the same thing can’t you?

Example 2; You can just die on the pressure plates and they will stay activated, can you not?

Example 3; The only thing this does is save time.

Spy Kits are great when you wish to save time. They do not let you do incredible amazing things that no one without spy kits would be able to do.

Pinch.4273:

Power.2957:

Pinch.4273

You should really get them out of dungeons, they’re doing a lot of harm to the game.

Um, no.

You can avoid every non-combat event in the game with a spy kit. Do you think it is skillful and adds to the game by being allowed to get past content that your group might not be capable of doing?

Example 1: Snowblind fractal. The Svanir waves at the first big bonfire are actually quite dangerous when you get to high difficulties, but it doesn’t matter, because you can just spy kit and do it without killing anything.

Example 2: Dredge. The button cage event is also pretty difficult when you get higher up, but same thing, spy kit and don’t kill a thing.

Example 3: Stealth ressing. You are almost never threatened by a party wipe when you can just stealth res anyone that dies.

And who knows what else it will trivialize in the future.

I’ve never thought of it as “taking the skill out of” or “trivializing” the game, I think of it as an item for people (like me) who would rather not spend 2 hours in dungeons killing trash mobs. I don’t know about you but besides from being a waste of time, killing everything becomes annoying and boring after a while.

Gab Superstar.4059:

Example 1; You can just corpse run, light the bonfire, die, repeat and accomplish the same thing can’t you?

Example 2; You can just die on the pressure plates and they will stay activated, can you not?

Example 3; The only thing this does is save time.

Spy Kits are great when you wish to save time. They do not let you do incredible amazing things that no one without spy kits would be able to do.

Corpse runs at least diminish your income. In Fractals, it has the added punishment of making your gear break, so if you’re dying a lot, you know you’re probably in over your head.

Regarding the dredge fractal, if you had corpses holding down the buttons, the player triggering the control panel would aggro the veteran, which would cause you to get hit and interrupted. The intended way is surely for someone to be alive and aggro the veteran so the control panel player does not get hit.

I don’t see stealth ressing as “saving time”, I see it as an easy way out of a potential wipe because you’re not playing well enough to survive normally.

I’ve never thought of it as “taking the skill out of” or “trivializing” the game, I think of it as an item for people (like me) who would rather not spend 2 hours in dungeons killing trash mobs. I don’t know about you but besides from being a waste of time, killing everything becomes annoying and boring after a while.

I don’t care about people skipping trash mobs, that will exist as long as combat stealth exists. I care about completely avoiding events with non-combat objectives, where you can skip the combat part because of spy kits.

I luckily got through that path, but to be honest the respawn rate of the mobs is too high. I can handle the 3 but they respawn to quickly that squishies (like my mesmer) are easily overrunned.

Please.. don’t nerf everything that has a little sense of challenge in it. There needs to be a few dungeons where you need coordination like this one. We all kill 2/3 mobs, then when everyone is ready we kill the last one at the same time, then someone gives a short cooldown and you channel then in peace. Did this path 4 times with the guild (For dungeon master title) and we failed the channel maybe once.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

Path 3 torch event is pretty rough, even for our QA and people know how to do it. I have plans to soften it’s edges a bit (read: nerf), because I honestly can’t get a group to run the darn thing. It can often take long enough to do the first event that you could have done a whole other path if you are in a PuG.
My current plan is to drop it down to 3 torches, so two players who choose tanky/support roles won’t be so punished by the content, and then adjusting the way the spawns behave to provide more of a challenge. (Plans subject to change based on testing feedback)

Have they done the samething for the CM path that has you planting 5 charges at a gate all at once?

Robert Hrouda.1327:

Path 3 torch event is pretty rough, even for our QA and people know how to do it. I have plans to soften it’s edges a bit (read: nerf), because I honestly can’t get a group to run the darn thing. It can often take long enough to do the first event that you could have done a whole other path if you are in a PuG.
My current plan is to drop it down to 3 torches, so two players who choose tanky/support roles won’t be so punished by the content, and then adjusting the way the spawns behave to provide more of a challenge. (Plans subject to change based on testing feedback)

Thank you for (eventually) making these changes. I enjoy the final boss of path 3 more than the bosses from the other paths so its nice to see this path being opened up and more accessible to groups. As the OP said its nearly impossible to do this path without using vent or something similar. Its very easy to do with everyone on vent but using in game mechanics its a bit too tough to coordinate. It was the same thing with path 1 and groups not running it because the Effigy was way way too tough at first

Zoke.2147:

Robert Hrouda.1327:

Path 3 torch event is pretty rough, even for our QA and people know how to do it. I have plans to soften it’s edges a bit (read: nerf), because I honestly can’t get a group to run the darn thing. It can often take long enough to do the first event that you could have done a whole other path if you are in a PuG.
My current plan is to drop it down to 3 torches, so two players who choose tanky/support roles won’t be so punished by the content, and then adjusting the way the spawns behave to provide more of a challenge. (Plans subject to change based on testing feedback)

Have they done the samething for the CM path that has you planting 5 charges at a gate all at once?

This one is a pain in the *

Robert Hrouda.1327:

Every time I hear about Spy Kits and Portal Guns, I cringe.

I’m in a similar boat when it comes to them as well. I know my guild’s “progression” Fractals group uses them extensively, especially during 30+ in which it becomes required for the Dredge fractal. With their wide-spread use, I’m willing to bet they’re going to get nerfed at some point, possibly by either lowering the duration or by introducing certain mobs that would use abilities to reveal stealthed players.

Speaking of the Dredge, lore-wise, they’re naturally blind and use sound for positional recognition; so even if you were to go stealth, how would they know that you can’t be seen? That has always boggled my mind whenever my guildmates used the spy kits in the Dredge Fractal.

Back to the original topic, I do agree that Path 3 in CoF was a pain in the butt. It seems to be designed for 5 glass cannons in mind due to the quick respawning adds during that part of the run. I did that path for the first time and it was a pain mostly because we had three in the group that ran support-centric builds. If anything, I would welcome any suitable change to that particular event that would benefit a variety of group compositions. Then that path would be more enjoyable to run.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

Path 3 torch event is pretty rough, even for our QA and people know how to do it. I have plans to soften it’s edges a bit (read: nerf), because I honestly can’t get a group to run the darn thing. It can often take long enough to do the first event that you could have done a whole other path if you are in a PuG.
My current plan is to drop it down to 3 torches, so two players who choose tanky/support roles won’t be so punished by the content, and then adjusting the way the spawns behave to provide more of a challenge. (Plans subject to change based on testing feedback)

Thanks, Robert, for the response. It’s nice to know that you all do listen to players’ concerns. I guess I should have known the Devs were already looking into it, having heard from so many players that the path was a problem!

Like I said, I don’t mind a challenge, but without a high out-of-game level of coordination, this one didn’t seem possible. It was time-consuming/wasteful and frustrating. Eventually, one of the team just gave up on the whole idea and that was it for us giving it a go.

Komuflage.2307:

There are 5 torches, every torch is guarded by 3 mobs, you can all go in a big group and kill 2 mobs from each one.

Do the other mobs really not respawn if you don’t kill all three? It seemed to me that after I killed all three mobs, they were back in an instant.

For people saying that there needs to be difficult things in the game, that’s fine. However, you need to label and advertise them as such. I’ve never come to think of dungeons as ‘content that is only for the most elite and organized’. They’re fun things you can run with friends that can be tough at points but are more fun than tough.

They’re not supposed to be so difficult that unless you have split second timing and perfect builds, you can’t do it. Hell, I’m toughness built and those imps can pretty much two to three shot me with their synchronized attacks if I’m not careful. I’m not sure, do they have circles? Cause I can’t see them when I’m ankle deep in water.

Of course, your definition of dungeons might be different than mine.

Also, there is a difference between difficulty and annoyance inducement. Giganticus Lupicus: Challenging, but not so annoying. Subject Alpha: Not really challenging, but annoying due to how long it takes. Torches: Challenging and annoying due to respawn rate and just pure level of synchronization you can’t do without voice.

It’s a fine line however and it depends on the group and the player. Someone else might find GL to be annoying as hell.

What I would suggest for later though is maybe a hard mode for dungeons. So, normal mode for those of us who want to play through the dungeons and have a bit of a rough time but not need raid group type synchronization and a hard mode for those who really want to test their limits.

With, of course, drops that reflect it’s difficulty. Or maybe a new set of armor that is dungeon armor + in the sense of looks or something. I dunno.

That way, the people who want harder paths can get harder paths. Those of us who are having trouble with the paths already can still do them without having to wonder why the hell we keep face planting.

ANYWAY. I was one of the ones with Azureai that night. Thanks for responding, maybe I’ll eventually be able to get through path 3.

Ya know… without the spy kits. twiddles thumbs and looks at the 500 he has in his inventory

Robert Hrouda.1327:

Every time I hear about Spy Kits and Portal Guns, I cringe.

I would agree with removing both those things in dungeons. However, in the rest of the PvE, I’d leave them there. I hate the fact that some classes can harvest resources and get skill points SO much easier than the rest. It at least balances things out a bit.

Also, what is the reasoning behind the mechanic that performing actions like finishing off a player or picking up an item doesn’t break invisibility?

Robert Hrouda.1327:

Every time I hear about Spy Kits and Portal Guns, I cringe.

Everytime I see that “difficulty increase” refers to “Mob HP/spawn rate/damage increase 2-10x” I cringe.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

Every time I hear about Spy Kits and Portal Guns, I cringe.

Every time I see how developers making this game “for warriors only” I cringe.

Pinch.4273:

Robert Hrouda.1327:

Every time I hear about Spy Kits and Portal Guns, I cringe.

You should really get them out of dungeons, they’re doing a lot of harm to the game.

Are you bloody joking? That’s like saying consets shouldn’t be used in GW1. They were there for a purpose: to make things less tedious. In GW2, consumables are here to make things less tedious and a bit more entertaining. Same principle. They exist to inspire player ingenuity in getting around tough situations, rather than being railroaded into a certain playstyle. If a content designer believes that there should be only one way to get through an obstacle(his way), then he’s not doing a very good job at being a content designer. Doing so makes the content have zero entertainment and is a sign that the person in question is not particularly innovative. Tedium does not equal fun.

Erasmus.1624:

Are you bloody joking? That’s like saying consets shouldn’t be used in GW1. They were there for a purpose: to make things less tedious. In GW2, consumables are here to make things less tedious and a bit more entertaining. Same principle. They exist to inspire player ingenuity in getting around tough situations, rather than being railroaded into a certain playstyle. If a content designer believes that there should be only one way to get through an obstacle(his way), then he’s not doing a very good job at being a content designer. Doing so makes the content have zero entertainment and is a sign that the person in question is not particularly innovative. Tedium does not equal fun.

In a game about combat, having the most efficient way to reap the most rewards being “avoid combat”, something is seriously wrong.

You can’t compare GW1 to this. In GW1, you actually fought mobs. In GW2, you skip everything. I’m not saying that you should be forced to fight all the trash in a dungeon, because it is currently not worth the effort. In the future, the trash should be worth the effort.

Sorry you are too short-sighted to see anything past the current situation. I want this game to gradually increase in difficulty as GW1 did. I don’t want spy kits or other gamebreaking consumables to trivialize the efforts of the developers.

Pinch.4273:

Robert Hrouda.1327:

Every time I hear about Spy Kits and Portal Guns, I cringe.

You should really get them out of dungeons, they’re doing a lot of harm to the game.

Portal gun allowed myself and a guildie to get a chest in fractals – we’d gotten locked in a cage and unlike the other cages, there was nothing to target inside or out to ‘break out’ of it. Someone luckily had a portal gun (we’d only found them the day before) and was able to port us out so we could claim end chest before moving onto next Fractal.

I’m glad they are there myself (I got a nice reward that chest!)

Serenitee.3890:

Pinch.4273:

Robert Hrouda.1327:

Every time I hear about Spy Kits and Portal Guns, I cringe.

You should really get them out of dungeons, they’re doing a lot of harm to the game.

Portal gun allowed myself and a guildie to get a chest in fractals – we’d gotten locked in a cage and unlike the other cages, there was nothing to target inside or out to ‘break out’ of it. Someone luckily had a portal gun (we’d only found them the day before) and was able to port us out so we could claim end chest before moving onto next Fractal.

I’m glad they are there myself (I got a nice reward that chest!)

I should have been more clear, I’m not too concerned with portal gun, just spy kits, and combat stealth in general. Fire elemental powder is pushing the line a bit too, but at least they die quickly.

Pinch.4273:

You can’t compare GW1 to this. I don’t want spy kits or other gamebreaking consumables to trivialize the efforts of the developers.

You’re right, GW 1 had James Phinney. My problem is the changes I see show a lack of effort on their part.

Kain.3485:

i’ve done it, i like it, idk why people say that parts hard, hardest part imo has got to be the hold the ground part near the end

The torch room requires much more coordination and punishes individuals’ mistakes heavily. If someone makes an error in the point holding room, your team can recover. If someone makes an error in the torch room, it probably forces a reset. The big fight also allows for more flexibility in terms of team composition.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

Every time I hear about Spy Kits and Portal Guns, I cringe.

I sense a meme coming.

Zoke.2147:

Robert Hrouda.1327:

Path 3 torch event is pretty rough, even for our QA and people know how to do it. I have plans to soften it’s edges a bit (read: nerf), because I honestly can’t get a group to run the darn thing. It can often take long enough to do the first event that you could have done a whole other path if you are in a PuG.
My current plan is to drop it down to 3 torches, so two players who choose tanky/support roles won’t be so punished by the content, and then adjusting the way the spawns behave to provide more of a challenge. (Plans subject to change based on testing feedback)

Have they done the samething for the CM path that has you planting 5 charges at a gate all at once?

Pure chaos works best there, have 1 person randomly throw around kegs and get the other people to keep running kegs. Takes some time but works without wipes.

Everytime I see patch notes, I cringe.

Tweek.3190:

Pure chaos works best there, have 1 person randomly throw around kegs and get the other people to keep running kegs. Takes some time but works without wipes.

What works even better is getting it right the first time. And then have one party member throw kegs if it failed.

The problem is not the spy kits but rather that stealth trivializes any skippable encounter and that it cannot be countered. Stealth in its current form is simply overpowered. Combine that with the fact that skipping mobs is almost always a better use of your time and…yeah.
Stealth kits merely amplify this problem.

Without spy kits, pugs are just going to require 1 thief (or more) group comp for shadow refuge. At least the spy kits make stealth available to anyone in pve.

Gab Superstar.4059:

Pinch.4273:

Power.2957:

Pinch.4273

You should really get them out of dungeons, they’re doing a lot of harm to the game.

Um, no.

You can avoid every non-combat event in the game with a spy kit. Do you think it is skillful and adds to the game by being allowed to get past content that your group might not be capable of doing?

Example 1: Snowblind fractal. The Svanir waves at the first big bonfire are actually quite dangerous when you get to high difficulties, but it doesn’t matter, because you can just spy kit and do it without killing anything.

Example 2: Dredge. The button cage event is also pretty difficult when you get higher up, but same thing, spy kit and don’t kill a thing.

Example 3: Stealth ressing. You are almost never threatened by a party wipe when you can just stealth res anyone that dies.

And who knows what else it will trivialize in the future.

Example 1; You can just corpse run, light the bonfire, die, repeat and accomplish the same thing can’t you?

Example 2; You can just die on the pressure plates and they will stay activated, can you not?

Example 3; The only thing this does is save time.

Spy Kits are great when you wish to save time. They do not let you do incredible amazing things that no one without spy kits would be able to do.

This ^. People complain about every kitten thing. Anything that makes impossible kitten a little easier they cry, anything that’s impossible they cry, you can never make them happy. This isn’t game breaking, it’s called planning ahead to make things less complicated, the same as when you take food, sharpening stones and skale venom.

spy kits and portal guns need to be removed from the game, also skipping stuff needs to be harder or be punished more, eg high amount of cripple, pull and immobilize

Malediktus.9250:

spy kits and portal guns need to be removed from the game, also skipping stuff needs to be harder or be punished more, eg high amount of cripple, pull and immobilize

Or they could design content that players don’t want to skip, how bout that.

Brutal Arts.6307:

Malediktus.9250:

spy kits and portal guns need to be removed from the game, also skipping stuff needs to be harder or be punished more, eg high amount of cripple, pull and immobilize

Or they could design content that players don’t want to skip, how bout that.

It’s not players that are the problem, it’s the content locusts / grinders. These people never “play” video games, they simply “connect” to them and begin aquiring loot.

The concept of “fun” to these people is completely alien, they exist for one reason only, to maximise personal profit, get the best items, and wave their gigantic e-peen around.

They will always seek out the cheat, the shortcut or the glitch, as anything that shortens the amount of time before they get the loot is a good thing, no matter how much fun the content they’re skipping is.

Anet doesn’t help the situation to be honest, they require you to repeat things so much that even casual players who do enjoy fun start to look for shortcuts. I want a legendary, I need to grind the game for around 500 hours to get one. Not play it, grind it. Meaning reapeating the same content 50-100 times to get the mats that I need.

If I can shorten that to 250 hours or 25-50 times by cheating, exploiting or glitching, then I more than likely will.

Bare with me here but maybe, just maybe, some people find acquiring loot and grinding fun. Maybe for some people the destination IS more important than the journey.

I hope the remove the spy kits and portal guns use in dungeons if only too see the bad players post in the forums about how unfair it is to remove their use.

Also, I like having at least 1 harder path in a dungeon then the others. The harder paths usually require more skill and coordination to complete effectively like with CoE path 3. Not every path should be a face roll farming route.

Pinch.4273:

Erasmus.1624:

Are you bloody joking? That’s like saying consets shouldn’t be used in GW1. They were there for a purpose: to make things less tedious. In GW2, consumables are here to make things less tedious and a bit more entertaining. Same principle. They exist to inspire player ingenuity in getting around tough situations, rather than being railroaded into a certain playstyle. If a content designer believes that there should be only one way to get through an obstacle(his way), then he’s not doing a very good job at being a content designer. Doing so makes the content have zero entertainment and is a sign that the person in question is not particularly innovative. Tedium does not equal fun.

In a game about combat, having the most efficient way to reap the most rewards being “avoid combat”, something is seriously wrong.

You can’t compare GW1 to this. In GW1, you actually fought mobs. In GW2, you skip everything. I’m not saying that you should be forced to fight all the trash in a dungeon, because it is currently not worth the effort. In the future, the trash should be worth the effort.

Sorry you are too short-sighted to see anything past the current situation. I want this game to gradually increase in difficulty as GW1 did. I don’t want spy kits or other gamebreaking consumables to trivialize the efforts of the developers.

LOL? Which GW1 did you play? Cuz we couldn’t have played the same one. In GW1 there was a TON more skipping than what’s going on in this game. In GW1 people would sell runs of missions and elite areas.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

Path 3 torch event is pretty rough, even for our QA and people know how to do it. I have plans to soften it’s edges a bit (read: nerf), because I honestly can’t get a group to run the darn thing. It can often take long enough to do the first event that you could have done a whole other path if you are in a PuG.
My current plan is to drop it down to 3 torches, so two players who choose tanky/support roles won’t be so punished by the content, and then adjusting the way the spawns behave to provide more of a challenge. (Plans subject to change based on testing feedback)

Instead of dropping it down to 3, why not remove the simultaneous clicks?
i.e. leave it at 5 but each torch stays lit after clicking. Also add in a parameter for “unclickable” while the guarding mobs are alive.

This ^. People complain about every kitten thing. Anything that makes impossible kitten a little easier they cry, anything that’s impossible they cry, you can never make them happy. This isn’t game breaking, it’s called planning ahead to make things less complicated, the same as when you take food, sharpening stones and skale venom.

First of all, I’m not crying, so please grow up and learn how to properly respond to an opposing point of view. Secondly, I doubt you’ll find any posts of mine where I’m saying things are too difficult.

Spy kits “don’t make things a little easier”, they make things trivial. Food buffs and potions are incomparable. Those are standardized and perfectly acceptable, and boost your effectiveness by a reasonable percentage. Spy kits let you avoid playing the game.

Power.2957:

LOL? Which GW1 did you play? Cuz we couldn’t have played the same one. In GW1 there was a TON more skipping than what’s going on in this game. In GW1 people would sell runs of missions and elite areas.

You still killed a lot of stuff in DoA/FoW/Deep/Urgoz. The only place you did tons of skipping was UW. None of those were on the level of skipping you can do in GW2, where you can finish an Arah path by only killing 1 or 2 mobs.

^I don’t think you played with high-end guilds in GW1

I rest my case.