Guild Wars 2

I mean really, was Anet lazy and just didn’t put enough though into the game play?

Basically its this: Once you beat the Subject alpha (not once, but twice) he does ANOTHER return stronger, more kitten than usual. I wish I could say that this was fun, but Anet.. are you trying to make people not play this game?

It is just a bad game engineering and design. But I will just post the main concerns:

1: NOT a fun dungeon to do since basically, you will die and brake your armor so much, the profit margin is actually a negative.

2: The crystals are just stupid. The mechanics is this; Once you get hit, you are dead. It takes too long for a teammate to break it and you are unable to do anything for 30+ seconds.

3: Subject Alpha is the boss in EVERY single path. Are you even trying. This is why my guild and friend will never play CoE. We actually have stated that we will only do this after a Nerf or change has been made.

4: There should DEFINITELY be more chest in this. I mean, so many bosses and crap yet still no chest? Please fix this asap!

5: Dodging the AoE doesn’t help and there is no way to know if you will be crystallized or not. My ele was just slammed into a crystal and the AoE insta-killed me. NOT cool.

6: The weapons and armor for these tokens totally suck. Make us want to play this please.

If anyone else has anything other to add, please do so.

Lol, did it the other day for the first time and died maybe twice? Sounds like somebody isn’t good at the game and needs to get better armor. I will give it to you that fighting the same boss is kinda lame. You can tele and mist form out of the crystals, too.

1) You said it was your first time doing the dungeon. Thus you (probably) don’t know anything about the bosses and their mechanics but even then you expect them to just walk around and let you kill them?

2) Blink abilities can get you out of the crystals. If you don’t have any of those, coordinate with your team and get people to fight Alpha in melee range. It’s easier to break crystals/ressurect and he doesn’t use the fire AoE when you’re close to him

3) Alpha is all about learning him. Like I said in #1 if it’s your first time doing him you shouldn’t really know anything about hi.

4) Most dungeons only have 2-3 chests

5) See #2

6) That’s a matter of opinion. I like the armour

Please try and do the dungeon a couple more times before asking for a nerf.

I’ve ran CoE multiple times, now I only miss the heard piece.
Talk with your team about the crystals, if everyone can use a skill to port out, there’s not need to destroy them. If people can’t port out then decide before starting the fight to all target the crystals when they spawn.
Try to all stay close together:
-less time to destroy the crystals
-Alpha will concentrate the red circles in one spot making it easier to dodge.
Try and find your timing for the dodge. Ie, I don’t dodge out of the circle as soon as it appears, I pretty much count to 2 and dodge, which allows me to dodge the exact moment the skill should hit (always getting “evaded” msg)
Seriously it’s not a hard fight, it’s just long and annoying since you have to see his face multiple times a day and he has way too much hp.

Ah, and the armor set is lovely. The weapons are a bit meh because they’re the Mystic ones with a red skin (still love the pistols though)

I do agree to some extent, but I’d say give it a few more attempts. I remember my first attempt and it was a total nightmare. I remember spending 45 minutes on the final fight with Subject Alpha in the teleporter path just waypoint zerging … it wasn’t a great way to kill him, but we did it. Eventually, we figured it out and zerged less in subsequent attempts.

Personally, I find the fight easy to do if almost everyone is in melee range (or at least bunched up together in one spot). The reason being is that his AoE will be much easier to avoid since his coverage is concentrated mostly on that spot. The downside is that if someone botches their dodge, they’ll get hit for about 4~5x the amount the ability would normally do.

With that said, you would have to time the dodge. I would say a good two seconds or so should do it.

If it’s one thing I do agree with, however, it would be the Imprisonment Crystals. Most stun-breaks can’t get you out of them, at least the ones I’ve tried anyway such as a Warrior’s “Shake It Off!” and Endure Pain, and an Engineer’s Elixir S. However, blink-style stun breakers could work like a Mesmer’s Blink ability.

I speed run CoE all the time with my guild, path 1 and 2 are the easiest and you can speed run it in about 22 min.

All you do is all stack up on subject alpha in melee range, making sure you are all in the same location, make sure you move into his body after he does the earth rings so you don’t get hit by that cone attack that always comes after his earth rings, and then beat him with no challenge.

Your problem is your lack of knowledge, don’t whine that the whole dungeon is broken because you ran it for the first time and have no clue how to do it when there are numerous videos with people easily clearing the dungeon in ~20-25 min.

What CoE maybe needs is a clearer way to point out that Alpha is going to crystallize someone, cause there is already an animation he does that indicates that he’s about to do that, and a bit better WP on path 2.
See the video walkthrough on Dungeons part of the forums. If you all stay together and preferably hugging Alpha you can avoid pretty much anything he throws at you. See also , on those same vids, how you can avoid the aoe atks. Got 3 more runs to full armor and I can say that with experience this is not as difficult as it first appears to be. It is challenging! What do you want?? You want Alpha, who is a genetically modified supermonster, to just drop on its knees and beg for mercy ?? Coordination is key.

As for Alpha beeing on every path and that beeing lazy… Man thats the “story” of the explorable part of CoE. As you try to escape, Alpha is released also and you have to do something about it while escaping.

I really don’t agree with this at all. The first time I ran CoE I died a lot too, because I was new at it and had no idea how the mechanics worked yet. I’ve run it enough now for almost the full set (missing 2 pieces) and I now I can do it without dying once usually, he’s really easy actually once you get your dodges timed right. He’s definitely one of my favorite dungeon bosses.

You should probably stop jumping to conclusions and deciding something is broken the first time you try something and fail, and instead figure out a strategy to handle it. It’s not designed to be a cakewalk the first time you go in.

And I like the weapons/armor, sorry you don’t.

No it’s definitely tedious having to see his ugly mug 3 times in all 3 paths.

Soon as I got the 1 lousy pair of boots I wanted from this dungeon, I never came back and have moved on to other ones that are supposedly harder … but mainly they also sort of resemble fun. Don’t get me wrong, CoE has a few fun/creative encounters in it too, but they’re too few and far between to tilt the scale on the tedium of spending nearly all of your time fighting Subject Alpha

Hello !

Its funny see ppl still bi****ng about the dungeon when i first started CoE , we died about 90 times on first path xD i was angry call the dungeon everything i could my repair cost was 70s-80s. BUT i Have Full CoE armor on my Charr Warrior its so awesome i cant even have words for it, i simply love this dungeon i mean if i who died 90 times on path 1 on first attemt get full CoE armor and walk around witha golem :$ that golem is awesome alot of time saved my life:D Golems for everyone :P

if U DIE 90 times in dungeon on 1 path that mean u suck just like i or we did , if u died few times then what ? if playing the game u get better doing stuff u suck at now , I dont think its hard dungeon more like challenging. the only problem i have is the waypoint in path 1-2 to far from the boss last encounter sometimes didnt make it if we have ele and hopefully he died hecan give us swiftness XD or just using signet of rage now but still doable but little bit closer waypoint just like in path 3 would be nice i hope there will be more dungeons like this in the future and have countless of times to go there and comeup with something so u wont die and still i want to try my cleric necro and Hammeririzing warrior in that dungeon i need sexy chest for my mesmer ^^ Dont give up because u died few times guys btw other died alot more since that dungeon i become much better Berzerker Warrior thanks to that dungeon my new record dying in any dungeon less than 5

I love CoE – think it’s my favourite dungeon.
As others have said, at first it’s a nightmare of repeated deaths and tears, but after a couple more runs it became much easier – my last run had zero combat deaths in the whole group (a couple of laser-grid deaths though).
Path 2’s Alpha isn’t as easy as path 1, but the same ideas apply.

I’d be against any change to this dungeon, as playing it has made me improve.

I don’t like the last room for Path 2. Too much geometry to run into when trying to get away from anything. And my blink hates inclines. Boss fights need to always be in bigger rooms.

Anrothan Aimhirghin.7381:

1: NOT a fun dungeon to do since basically, you will die and brake your armor so much, the profit margin is actually a negative.

I’ve got about 20 charged lodestones sitting in my bank from running CoE alone. A few days ago I could have sold those for about 3.5ish gold apiece or something like that. I’m not even running it to farm for lodestones like some people I know, I just wanted to make myself a full set of weapons for a couple of my characters (underwater dungeon weapons ftw). But if you aren’t able to make money from CoE, it’s simply because you’re terrible in CoE.

Harsh and rude maybe, but just the truth. I often take multiple first timer randoms with me, and I still rarely die while playing a class that actually can’t escape from crystals via blink. A staff mesmer could probably easily solo path 2’s version of Alpha, since he doesn’t use the line of spikes there (though it would of course take a really long time).

1. No
2. No
3. Yes + 100
4. No, just reduce “mini-boss” syndrom CoE has. Do we REALLY have to kill a bot mini then follow it by an event where you….kill more bots?
5. Crystal should be a tad easier to dodge I agree. It sucks for my warrior.
6. No – my duel inquest axes are amazing – thank you very much.

All of these angry posts about a persons first time fighting something and demanding a nerf are beyond old. ASK FOR ADVICE > ASK FOR NERF. As much as there are people out there who immediately give up, there are even more people out there who are willing to help and bring suggestions to the table. I wish I could see this change happen in the forums. Every dungeon is possible to complete at this point, the only things hindering players from beating them beyond experience, are bugs, and ANet is fixing them.

GUILD WARS 2 I LOVE YOU.

CoE needs a buff to the chest-drop rate of Charged Cores/Lodestones.

but that’s about it, the most fun dungeon in game.

Lorana.2468:

CoE needs a buff to the chest-drop rate of Charged Cores/Lodestones.

but that’s about it, the most fun dungeon in game.

Absolutely 100% this. I enjoy this dungeon, I really do. It’s a coincidence that it happens to be my go-to to get Bolt with the lodestones.

However, I’ve run this dungeon at least 150 times, and I have 12 lodestones to show for it. So far I’ve had to waste an insufferable amount of money to buy any others (up to 25 now). Most of those lodestones aren’t even drops – they’re transmuted cores. Even that isn’t enough. The loot tables are absolute garbage and need a fix ASAP. If not that, allow us to buy them with tokens, because for a game with a supposedly anti-grind philosophy, this is just ludicrous.

I just played path 3 for the first time last night and I agree that Subject Alpha is overpowered. There is very little strategy in fighting him other than “dodge until you die, respawn at the nearest waypoint and repeat, but don’t let him go more than 10 seconds without taking damage or he’ll gain all of his health back.” I spent 2 instant repair canisters on this single play and only only even used those after my armor was completely broken. A little warning before he crystallizes you and a higher recharge time on his “1-hit-kill stalagmites everywhere” attack would make this dungeon a lot more enjoyable.

I wasn’t playing it for the loot, so I don’t care that there were 6 bosses and only 3 chests, but I did wish there were more waypoints.

Every time I’ve run into a dungeon and gotten stomped it’s been that it was bugged or I was woefully unprepared. A lot of times when I’ve been stomped it was so hard I thought it must be bugged, but it was really just me not understanding what was going on.

This was true for subject alpha.

There’s actually actually a lot of strategy here and people rarely have to die. He’s just horribly misunderstood. The move that kills so many people is that double red ring. What people don’t know about it, because it’s too hectic to figure out on the spot, is that there are two possible attacks from it. One is an ice attack (the center ring is dangerous while the outer ring is safe) and the other is the earth attack (the center ring is safe but the outer ring is dangerous). So if you akittengeted by the rock attack DON’T MOVE and it wont hit you. If you akittengeted by the ice attack, MOVE.

Now for the part that blew my mind. Alpha picks on people. He’ll ice attack one person at a time and keep icing them while rocking everyone else until the person he’s icing dies. Then he’ll pick someone else. It’s not random and the ice attack has a visual tell, so that you know if it’s you.

What does this mean? if you are being attacked with the earth attack you can stack up on him and don’t move when you see double rings since the center is safe If you are being ice attacked you ought to stay away from the rest of the group and keep strafing as not to get killed.

Fairly easy fight after that is well understood by the whole group.

Subject alpha is by no means the worst fight in the dungeon. I’ll take him over the evolved destroyer any day…. but maybe I’m just missing something there and with a little more understanding I’ll like that fight too.

I find CoE pathetically easy but it’s probably due to my teams composition.
1 full Cleric Guardian with AH, Writ of the merciful and pure of voice
1 full Knight Guardian with AH, empowering might and pure of voice
1 full Cleric Warrior with Shouts traited to heal/soldier runes
1 glass cannon necromancer with wells
1 glass cannon elementalist.

Everytime alpha comes up we simply fear/kb him into a wall, stand as close together as possible and check the trading post/salvage materials. Every once in a while he’ll actually aim the real ice circle at us so one of us will shout to remove the bleed and the symbols/regen/wells will pick anyone hit back up to full in a few seconds.

The only annoying part is the troll on path 3.

Is path 2 the teleporter path? I think that’s probably the easiest. I always seem to have more troubles with the sub and front door path due to his rock spike thing, though I know there are certain ways around it.

Not sure how engineers and necros can’t break out of the crystal… though I can usually survive it if I’m topped off before I get trapped. He also usually sticks by the crystal as well so there’s opportunity for players to use AoE and abilities that hit more than one target to snag him and the crystal.

This is actually probably the most fun dungeon in the game. I really hope they don’t lower the difficulty. We’ve done all 3 paths without a single death. Stack up so you break people out of the crystals near instantly and dodge the AoEs while one person stays out of the stack to dodge the ice rings. I know my Engineer can also solo down a crystal in less than a single AoE rotation (my Ranger cannot, but Rangers are pretty awful at the moment) so it shouldn’t be taking 30 seconds to break out of a crystal. It’s actually a fairly simple fight and the difficulty is well tuned.

I do think Anet should look into fixing the Destroyer fight in Path 3. You don’t have enough time to DPS him before having to go back on lasers, so you wind up having 2 people with 1.2k range or more standing on the stairs DPSing him from there while the other 3 man the lasers and it’s a rather long and boring fight as a result.

CoE is fine, only charged lodestone/core droprate needs to be increased SIGNIFICANTLY. At laest 500% raise.

CoE is one of the best and most fun dungeons out there, except for the VERY kitten-design destroyer boss, being, on the contrary, the worst designed fight in the game.

If you don’t like CoE because you’re dying every time you get encapsulated in a crystal or because Alpha wipes your team or because you weren’t lucky with the chests… practice, bloody practice.

oh the walk, that painful, painful walk :’(

CoE has a serious lack of waypoints, especially on that path.

also the front door path and the teleporter path are pretty much the same.

My advice: check a few guides and run the dungeon with someone who knows it. As others said CoE is one of the best designed and most fun dungeon available (even the destroyer has a good base idea, just needs some tweaking). Alpha is also one of the best boss in game with a wide range of abilities requiring position awarness, knowledge of their mechanics and teamwork.

@BrunoBRS: TA and SE would like a word with you. Seriously CoE is full of waypoint, the only one a tiny bit far is the path 2 final alpha, but since you shouldn’t die anyway doesn’t really matter.

CoE is the only dungeon I think Anet did right. It’s actually FUN! Also Alpha is a joke, he’s more of a joke than Lupicus. Wait for 2 seconds and roll you dodge everything. What’s so hard about that?

This thread suffers from serious L2P

Subject Alpha is a skill-check. Love it!

Subject Alpha is definitely in top 3 bosses in this game, I wouldn’t change a thing!

Also how can you say it’s badly designed, its basically the only dungeon that can’t be skipped or exploited and actually motivates you to play it the legit way.

Big props to whoever designed CoE.

Just have the whole party stand inside alphas body, yeah keep telling yourself that’s how Anet designed the encounter to be beaten.

Subject Alpha is annoying but totally easy once you know what you are doing. The only real trouble is when he repeatedly covers the room in aoes. This presents a problem for players who don’t have vigor return in their build. You only can dodge twice before recharging by default.

Personally, I can tank Subject Alpha all day, even when I’m crystallized I can survive his aoe attacks. But like I said, his mechanics discourage builds that do not use vigor return mechanics. And that seems to be adverse to having build options in the first place.

Aside from that, the biggest issue in COE is front door path. The destroyer boss either needs to be reworked or his hp lowered significantly. No one does front door path because of it.

You have 10 secs to dps him before the shield comes up. Actually much less since you have to make your way down to the platforms to dps him. Then you either have to time your jump perfectly to hoop back up, since you are in combat it makes jumping difficult due to to the slow speed. If you don’t make it, you take a nice trip to the lava which kills you near instantly and you have to take 30secs+ to run all the way back.

Its the worst boss fight in the game, very poorly designed.

neck.2159:

@BrunoBRS: TA and SE would like a word with you. Seriously CoE is full of waypoint, the only one a tiny bit far is the path 2 final alpha, but since you shouldn’t die anyway doesn’t really matter.

just because other dungeons are just as bad doesn’t justify CoE being bad.

CoE has plenty of waypoints… on the first half.

the other half has not a single waypoint, save for the one right at the end of the front door path. path 2 you fight subject alpha not once, but twice, and with no waypoints in between, and with a boss fight before the second alpha fight and ANOTHER boss fight before the third fight.

so you fight 4 bosses, and you’re going to tell me that it’s perfectly reasonable to have more than one minute of downtime just from running from the waypoint to the fight?

Oh Snapalope.1378:

CoE is the only dungeon I think Anet did right. It’s actually FUN! Also Alpha is a joke, he’s more of a joke than Lupicus. Wait for 2 seconds and roll you dodge everything. What’s so hard about that?

not all classes can spec into free, almost infinite dodges like thief. my ranger friend has mentioned that even if he only uses dodge on the charged attacks, he runs out of dodges and has to start legging it instead, which is very unreliable on room-wide AoEs. the safe spots on his rock attacks are also rather unreliable, since the rock AoEs can overlay each other.

CoE path 2 is the most fun dungeon in the game as warrior. It requires some practice and very good reflexes/timings. Taking down friendlies in crystals as warrior also isn’t too too hard, I usually get them out just in time and I’m not even a glass cannon.

Lol I can break a crystal with 2 cluster bomb shots the boss is a joke not sure how you keep dying it’s the usual dodge the red circles fight you should try meeling the boss if you arent capable of that

BrunoBRS.5178:

Oh Snapalope.1378:

CoE is the only dungeon I think Anet did right. It’s actually FUN! Also Alpha is a joke, he’s more of a joke than Lupicus. Wait for 2 seconds and roll you dodge everything. What’s so hard about that?

not all classes can spec into free, almost infinite dodges like thief. my ranger friend has mentioned that even if he only uses dodge on the charged attacks, he runs out of dodges and has to start legging it instead, which is very unreliable on room-wide AoEs. the safe spots on his rock attacks are also rather unreliable, since the rock AoEs can overlay each other.

there isnt simply 1 way of dealing with him. Ranged players can walk out of every AOE except for the conal attack, which you just have to dodge if hes looking at you before doing one of his 3 attacks.

I honestly think its one of the best designed dungeons in the game, in terms of fun, except for the destroyer which is simply not enough time to damage him, and ends up with a tedious exploit the parts where you cant be hit strategy.

CoE path 2 is the easiest of all. I almost never die against alpha on my mesmer and even on my warrior I only died twice during the final alpha. I often survived the crystals and being trapped in one with the aoe under me did 0 damage more then once.

phys.7689:

BrunoBRS.5178:

Oh Snapalope.1378:

CoE is the only dungeon I think Anet did right. It’s actually FUN! Also Alpha is a joke, he’s more of a joke than Lupicus. Wait for 2 seconds and roll you dodge everything. What’s so hard about that?

not all classes can spec into free, almost infinite dodges like thief. my ranger friend has mentioned that even if he only uses dodge on the charged attacks, he runs out of dodges and has to start legging it instead, which is very unreliable on room-wide AoEs. the safe spots on his rock attacks are also rather unreliable, since the rock AoEs can overlay each other.

there isnt simply 1 way of dealing with him. Ranged players can walk out of every AOE except for the conal attack, which you just have to dodge if hes looking at you before doing one of his 3 attacks.

I honestly think its one of the best designed dungeons in the game, in terms of fun, except for the destroyer which is simply not enough time to damage him, and ends up with a tedious exploit the parts where you cant be hit strategy.

just goes to show. i think the destroyer is pretty easy to manage, since you don’t have to stay next to the lasers once you fire them. you sync your shots and head down. people with 1200 range can just attack from the stairs, and going back up is a matter of attacking for 5 seconds and having a movement speed bonus on you (even those signets will do).

but the problem, once again, are the waypoints. it takes nearly two minutes to go from the latest waypoint until the destroyer chamber. i’d have no issues with CoE if dying didn’t mean spending all that time just walking. in retrospect, it might be why i haven’t returned to TA since i completed its story mode.

BrunoBRS.5178:

not all classes can spec into free, almost infinite dodges like thief. my ranger friend has mentioned that even if he only uses dodge on the charged attacks, he runs out of dodges and has to start legging it instead

That’s not true. If you wish I could show you screenshots of my ranger wearing parts of the CoE armor, and I can easily dodge all Alpha’s charge attacks. I have Natural Vigor since I have maxed Wilderness Survival, but even without it, the shortbow skill 3 would provide an additional dodge by itself.

Assuming your ranger friend is using short bow like 99% of all the rangers out there, take a look at this skill.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Quick_Shot

Evasion on a 9 second cooldown. That coupled with your natural endurance gain is enough to completely dodge every single attack you need to in order to survive Alpha. I do the same thing with the Warrior’s number 3 GS attack and have no vigor procs/increased endurance gain in my build or utilities. Main hand sword can do it, too.

Erasculio.2914:

BrunoBRS.5178:

not all classes can spec into free, almost infinite dodges like thief. my ranger friend has mentioned that even if he only uses dodge on the charged attacks, he runs out of dodges and has to start legging it instead

That’s not true. If you wish I could show you screenshots of my ranger wearing parts of the CoE armor, and I can easily dodge all Alpha’s charge attacks. I have Natural Vigor since I have maxed Wilderness Survival, but even without it, the shortbow skill 3 would provide an additional dodge by itself.

like i said, the ranger is my friend, not me. i’m a thief, i can easily get infinite rolls. but i take his word if he says he doesn’t have enough dodges even with his shortbow.

i was going to respond to this, and note about giganticus in arah, but anet seems to enjoy removing posts of anyone with a legitimate idea, so ill just say these 2 dungeons need to be nerfed and wait for anet to ban me from forums

I just did this path for the first time ever! It was a PuG but 4/5 of us joined vent and for the last fight 5/5 joined leader’s guild’s vent but I don’t think vent made much of a different.

Anyway, I died a lot. Had to use a repair canister on top of spending about 15s on repairs. But IMO, it was still fun and the fights aren’t hard once you get dodge worked out. I would do it again!

PS. I was on guardian and I suck at dodging! But even I could figure out the rhythm of the Subject Alpha dodges after awhile. Practice is the key to everything!

Heh CoE is my favorite dungeon of all.
And about the crystals, mesmers, necromancers, elementalists, guardian and thiefs can all break out of the crystals, all you need is an instant cast teleport.

BrunoBRS.5178:

like i said, the ranger is my friend, not me. i’m a thief, i can easily get infinite rolls. but i take his word if he says he doesn’t have enough dodges even with his shortbow.

He has an evade on both his shortbow and his one handed sword that have shorter cooldowns than that of the evade on my warrior’s greatsword. My warrior can EASILY 100% dodge every other attack (which is all you need) between that one GS evade and natural stamina endurance. There is absolutely no reason your friend can’t do it. Have him take Lightning Reflexes if needed, too (even though it’s unnecessary, it’s a utility skill that grants both a free evade AND 10 seconds minimum of vigor, so if he’s having trouble, there’s no excuse NOT to take it). Not to mention it just takes 5 points into Wilderness in order to get an always active +50% faster endurance regen, which alone is also probably enough.