Confirmed by Colin: Dungeons are Dead

Confirmed by Colin: Dungeons are Dead

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Posted by: TheFantasticGman.9451

TheFantasticGman.9451

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/473/feature/10044/Guild-Wars-2-Colin-and-MO-Talk-Heart-of-Thorns-Raids-and-Free-to-Play.html

MMORPG:
What about traditional group dungeons? Are you pretty much done with those for now? Leaving them as part of the leveling experience? Or will group dungeons be making a return?

Colin: We’re treating FOTM as our focus on end-game 5 player content. And all additions we make to make the five player dungeon content more fun will expand on Fractals. And then raids will be next level of that.

I don’t know about you but I definitely read that as conventional dungeons are officially dead content. Sometimes one can say a lot without saying anything at all.

Speaking from a PVE-only point of view…

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Posted by: roachsrealm.9284

roachsrealm.9284

confirmed by colin: dungeons will be introduced in fractals and raids.

fixed that for you.

so we likely won’t get a new dungeon icon on the world map somewhere. so what?

Smitten Mittens (The Gothic Embrace [Goth], Fort Aspenwood)

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Posted by: dlonie.6547

dlonie.6547

confirmed by colin: dungeons will be introduced in fractals and raids.

fixed that for you.

so we likely won’t get a new dungeon icon on the world map somewhere. so what?

Dungeons are not fractals and raids.

Dungeons are dead. Themed, multipath dungeons that tie into the story and have token based rewards and are intended for 5-man parties to take 30 minutes to an hour (originally, anyway) to complete are dead.

And BTW, we’re not complaining. We’ve known this for a while, but it’s nice to hear confirmation.

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Posted by: RSLongK.8961

RSLongK.8961

We all knew it.
From the disbanding of the dungeon team to the last nail being the fusion of the merchants(kitten i liked those merchants).
Nothing news, just feels…

Main: Warrior|Character counter: 16

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Posted by: TheFantasticGman.9451

TheFantasticGman.9451

Glad to see dlonie gets it. Please reread his response again if you still do not understand, roach.

Speaking from a PVE-only point of view…

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Posted by: Rising Dusk.2408

Rising Dusk.2408

Truthfully I’m okay with this as long as they’re active in building new raids and Fractal content.

[VZ] Valor Zeal – Stormbluff Isle – Looking for steady, casual-friendly NA raiders!

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Posted by: Jerus.4350

Jerus.4350

Truthfully I’m okay with this as long as they’re active in building new raids and Fractal content.

Ditto.

At this point I really only enjoy Arah, while Fractals I enjoy most (kitten snowblind).

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Posted by: fishball.7204

fishball.7204

Truthfully I’m okay with this as long as they’re active in building new raids and Fractal content.

Ditto.

At this point I really only enjoy Arah, while Fractals I enjoy most (kitten snowblind).

Kitten snowblind. Kittens.

I’m ok with no new dungeons I guess, as long as they actually add new raids/fracs. They’ve barely added anything to fracs since its inception so…. we’ll see.

FOR THE GREEEEEEEEEEEEN

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Posted by: dlonie.6547

dlonie.6547

Dusk nails it — “active in building new content” is by far the most important aim at this point.

Hopefully raid wings aren’t a “once per year” type deal.

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Posted by: deSade.9437

deSade.9437

“active in building new content”

Yeahhh. Right.
Just like they were active in reworking old dungeons, just like they were active in including dungeons in ls, and just like they were active in taking care of fractals.
It’s cool though, at least I’m on top of the fractal leaderboards…

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Posted by: dlonie.6547

dlonie.6547

idk man…at this point, it’s a sink or swim situation for them, and I think they’ve finally realized it. If they don’t get their kitten together and start putting out content, they’re done for.

If they haven’t realized that yet…I guess we go back to waiting for another company to rip off their combat system and actually put the effort into producing a game that people want to stick around in.

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Posted by: deSade.9437

deSade.9437

Well, they survived 3 years, I’d still call it a success… they may manage to agonize through another one, though.

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Posted by: Goldberg.4831

Goldberg.4831

Truthfully I’m okay with this as long as they’re active in building new raids and Fractal content.

This, as long as they follow thru.

Have you ever know anyone who starts a lot of projects but never finish’s any of them. That is Anet. Dungeon concepts were cool, and different, 1 Story, 3 Explore, I think they were on to something, just no follow thru. Lets hope Raids and fractals arent gathering dust in a year, because Anet is chasing the next shiny.

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Posted by: Wethospu.6437

Wethospu.6437

I bet Anet is bit annoyed at dungeons. There is no point trying to fix them because the effort has a higher gain when creating new content like raids. They also can’t just remove them because it would annoy lots of people.

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Posted by: NovaanVerdiano.6174

NovaanVerdiano.6174

Good night, sweet dungeons.
As long they actually put out fractals and raid content, it’s fine by me. At least they finally managed to say “Dungeons are ded guys, go home.”

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Posted by: Astralporing.1957

Astralporing.1957

Dusk nails it — “active in building new content” is by far the most important aim at this point.

Hopefully raid wings aren’t a “once per year” type deal.

Well, supposedly dungeons were abandoned since they weren’t that popular. Somehow i don’t see Raids being better in that regard.
Somehow i don’t see them being any less bugged than dungeons either (which is likely the second reason for their abandonment – Anet likes making new things way better than fixing old ones).

Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November

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Posted by: Lord Kuru.3685

Lord Kuru.3685

Truthfully I’m okay with this as long as they’re active in building new raids and Fractal content.

That word “active.” They have never been even close to active in building dungeons or fractals. And they frequently start projects only to abandon them very quickly.

It looks like Anet doesn’t really have a good vision for the game and are just moving in whatever direction their latest metrics tell them to go.

It might really be time for people in the dungeon forum to seriously consider some outreach/propaganda with the casual community because if raids aren’t immediately super popular on release, they’re going to be abandoned.

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Posted by: dlonie.6547

dlonie.6547

Dusk nails it — “active in building new content” is by far the most important aim at this point.

Hopefully raid wings aren’t a “once per year” type deal.

Well, supposedly dungeons were abandoned since they weren’t that popular. Somehow i don’t see Raids being better in that regard.
Somehow i don’t see them being any less bugged than dungeons either (which is likely the second reason for their abandonment – Anet likes making new things way better than fixing old ones).

Firing the people who made them didn’t help their ability to fix them, either…

At least they finally managed to say “Dungeons are ded guys, go home.”

The only bit that annoys me is:

we have no immediate plans to revamp dungeons […] That’s not to say that the team will never have time, in the future, to do large projects like the TA Aetherpath or similar with other dungeons. As Mike O’Brien said in his recent post, if we ever permanently stop working on a particular area of the game, we will tell you all.

That was posted long after they’d stopped working on them (shortly after the gamescon “no dungeons in the near future” announcement). I hope they understand why there’s an enormous lack of trust here. If they drop the ball again, I don’t see any of us giving them more chances.

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Posted by: EcoRI.9273

EcoRI.9273

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3jdjtv/designing_challenging_content/cuoh8b6

“When bosses don’t die in 5 seconds, survivability and sustainability actually becomes a thing.”

Oh look dungeon requires no skills says a dev.(At least thats how I interpret that statement.)

http://www.twitch.tv/eco_r_i
Wynd Cloud | Fierce N Licious

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Posted by: IllegalChocolate.6938

IllegalChocolate.6938

Oh look dungeon requires no skills says a dev.(At least thats how I interpret that statement.)

the application of player skill is beneficial but it is not required to complete content.

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Posted by: spoj.9672

spoj.9672

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3jdjtv/designing_challenging_content/cuoh8b6

“When bosses don’t die in 5 seconds, survivability and sustainability actually becomes a thing.”

Oh look dungeon requires no skills says a dev.(At least thats how I interpret that statement.)

Yeah except that comment falls flat when you realise necro has neither of those in PvE. Dont leave out the rest of the comment

“When bosses don’t die in 5 seconds, survivability and sustainability actually becomes a thing. Necros are in a fantastic place atm for raiding.”

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Posted by: Jerus.4350

Jerus.4350

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3jdjtv/designing_challenging_content/cuoh8b6

“When bosses don’t die in 5 seconds, survivability and sustainability actually becomes a thing.”

Oh look dungeon requires no skills says a dev.(At least thats how I interpret that statement.)

I was far more interested in the other comment. I take it they have play tested the raid already. If necro is in a good place (likely they didn’t really look at damage that much) then I can only assume that a focus on avoiding damage and the current style of PVE is not something we’re going to see in raids. Not a big surprise seeing their feverish love for their PVP and their belief that it’s somehow a superior gameplay style.

Chances are these raids won’t be very much fun to me it keeps sounding like.

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Posted by: Lord Kuru.3685

Lord Kuru.3685

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3jdjtv/designing_challenging_content/cuoh8b6

“When bosses don’t die in 5 seconds, survivability and sustainability actually becomes a thing.”

Oh look dungeon requires no skills says a dev.(At least thats how I interpret that statement.)

I was far more interested in the other comment. I take it they have play tested the raid already. If necro is in a good place (likely they didn’t really look at damage that much) then I can only assume that a focus on avoiding damage and the current style of PVE is not something we’re going to see in raids. Not a big surprise seeing their feverish love for their PVP and their belief that it’s somehow a superior gameplay style.

Chances are these raids won’t be very much fun to me it keeps sounding like.

I wouldn’t give up yet. They’ve shown that they have very little understanding of their own game. This could be mitigated by inviting leading members of the dungeon community as advisors during development (beta is way too late), but that hasn’t happened.

So I think it’s very likely the meta could end up completely different from their intentions (in a good way).

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Posted by: Jerus.4350

Jerus.4350

LOL I like that, last hope is their incompetance?

Really though I think they’re good developers, I’ve enjoyed the game so far. But, I can’t help but feel they’re steering it strait in the opposite direction from what I love about it.

Maybe I’m just a weird person but this is like the 4th game to do this to me if my thinking is right here. Game plays one way, many people love how it works and play it for years, others complain daily and don’t really play, and of course some quit. Years into the game they cave in to the complaints after most of those people are gone anyways, or those that remain continue to sit in the common areas and never really intended to play the game just socialize anyways. Ehh whatever.

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Posted by: Quarktastic.1027

Quarktastic.1027

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3jdjtv/designing_challenging_content/cuoh8b6

“When bosses don’t die in 5 seconds, survivability and sustainability actually becomes a thing.”

Oh look dungeon requires no skills says a dev.(At least thats how I interpret that statement.)

I wonder how the dungeon/fractal solo runners feel about this statement. Because they typically run in berzerker/sinister gear, and I’ve never seen them solo a dungeon boss in 5 seconds.

Those armadillos would be a lot cooler if they looked more like real armadillos. mmm armadillos
-BnooMaGoo.5690

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Posted by: Sarahfull.4930

Sarahfull.4930

It’s a shame they can’t give you guys the code so you guys could mod dungeons to your liking. I believe you guys would do a great job breathing new life into them like moding communities do with other games.

Um.. don’t get me wrong, anet does a great job! Just that the have left dungeons now and it would of been cool if the comunity could get a hold of them.

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Posted by: cranos.5913

cranos.5913

Meh, it’s a shame really, but no surprise. I just hope fractal rewards will be decent enough to play them even after I already got the daily chest. If they truly wanna replace dungeons with fractals they should at least manage that…

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Posted by: phys.7689

phys.7689

this is why they are making fractals more dungeon like, id say both fractas and dungeons died. And the new fractals is child of the two.

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Posted by: phys.7689

phys.7689

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3jdjtv/designing_challenging_content/cuoh8b6

“When bosses don’t die in 5 seconds, survivability and sustainability actually becomes a thing.”

Oh look dungeon requires no skills says a dev.(At least thats how I interpret that statement.)

actually that statement sounds like they are going to have unavoidable damage now. the onl;y defenses necro have is mitigation and healing. So if necros survivability makes them good, dmg must be unavoidabble

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Posted by: deSade.9437

deSade.9437

Problem is, unless this damage applies a -100% healing debuff, ds still sucks as a way of mitigating damage. It’s around 13k full, isn’kitten That’s not a lot.
I mean, does anyone seriously think they’re gonna introduce such high, unavoidable damage (and you supposedly can’t heal, else people would just blast water fields and necro’d be ever more useless) it ticks for say 20-25k so necros can survive it, making them useful?
That’s quiiiite the stretch.
Necro becoming a “thing”? That’s even more of a stretch… They can, sure, but it doesn’t look like they want to fix things? I mean, it’s been 3 years…

P.S. This isn’t a necro thread (pun unintended), but there’s one thing that’s eating at me… they built the reaper around this concept of being sloooow but hard to escape from, correct? Chill, chill, more chill and some hard ccs, coupled with melee-oriented skills. Ok. Then… why does an ele apply more chill with 0 effort, ranged? Why did they give every elite spec but dh – even other reapers – this massive condi reduction? From 33% to 66% chill duration reduction, on top of food + runes.
What the hell?

(edited by deSade.9437)

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Posted by: phys.7689

phys.7689

Problem is, unless this damage applies a -100% healing debuff, ds still sucks as a way of mitigating damage. It’s around 13k full, isn’kitten That’s not a lot.
I mean, does anyone seriously think they’re gonna introduce such high, unavoidable damage (and you supposedly can’t heal, else people would just blast water fields and necro’d be ever more useless) it ticks for say 20-25k so necros can survive it, making them useful?
That’s quiiiite the stretch.
Necro becoming a “thing”? That’s even more of a stretch… They can, sure, but it doesn’t look like they want to fix things? I mean, it’s been 3 years…

P.S. This isn’t a necro thread (pun unintended), but there’s one thing that’s eating at me… they built the reaper around this concept of being sloooow but hard to escape from, correct? Chill, chill, more chill and some hard ccs, coupled with melee-oriented skills. Ok. Then… why does an ele apply more chill with 0 effort, ranged? Why did they give every elite spec but dh – even other reapers – this massive condi reduction? From 33% to 66% chill duration reduction, on top of food + runes.
What the hell?

they said they got to rebalance reaper due to large chill nerfs

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Posted by: deSade.9437

deSade.9437

Ehh.. rebalance… ok… We’ll see this “rebalancing” /scratches head

i bet they gonna rebalance it together with the drood justyouwait shhhhh.

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Posted by: rogerwilko.6895

rogerwilko.6895

I’m a casual player with limited time / day.
I never stepped into fractals because I think that finding a group that will care about a new guy is hard and that the completion takes a long time.

For me this is bad news.

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Posted by: kolompi.1287

kolompi.1287

The fractals changes don’t look so good on paper and did they promise actual new fractals anywhere? Because cranking the level to 100 is not adding new content.

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Posted by: Jerus.4350

Jerus.4350

No new fractals incoming atm, they said that

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Posted by: Miku Lawrence.6329

Miku Lawrence.6329

They still give gold tho.

Snow Crows [SC]

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Posted by: Cries Of Sorrow.5864

Cries Of Sorrow.5864

God kitten you guys still going?

And who the kitten are half these people here?!

Main Elementalist:Train Of Thought
Alt Warrior: Burning Paris
Best Ele build EU.

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Posted by: Scoundrel.2139

Scoundrel.2139

Hroudra….

Veni, Vidi, Victa.
Quidquid Latine Dictum Sit, Altum Videtur

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Posted by: dlonie.6547

dlonie.6547

If they do introduce new fractals that are more dungeon-like (longer, multiple bosses/path, arah-like skipping sections, similar rewards), that’d be plenty to make me happy.

My fear with the “no more dungeons, only fractals” is that the majority of fractals are one, maybe two encounters, give crap rewards, and then there’s the whole RNG mess (thankfully that’s going away).

Still….idk, I liked having the same dungeon map used for a few different paths. Made them seem more interesting to me. Ah well. New content is new content, and at this point beggars can’t be choosers.

I surely hope there are new fractal shards coming with HoT. All of this hype about, quote, “The New Fractals of the Mist”….if that’s really just delivering a handful of LONG overdue QOL changes and extending the AR grind, it’ll be very disappointing (not to mention misleading).

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Posted by: Therodin.2970

Therodin.2970

I’ve seen people say that by making the fractals a static schedule instead of semi random they are coding themselves into a corner when it comes to adding new fractals, unless they add those new to fractals to 100+. Because of the things they bragged about with this system was how you could keep records easily since they will always be the same and always have the same instability. But if they make a new fractal and insert into the list in 5 or 6 spaced out places, it moves everything above it up a few spots which messes up the records part of it and im sure would take some interesting work to keep the instabilities with the same levels.

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Posted by: TheRandomGuy.7246

TheRandomGuy.7246

this is why they are making fractals more dungeon like, id say both fractas and dungeons died. And the new fractals is child of the two.

New fractals look like a botchling to me.

Attachments:

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Posted by: Tom Yzf.5872

Tom Yzf.5872

I really enjoy pugging 5-man dungeons. It is really fun when I group up with not-so-good players and I’m able to carry or contribute more than my weight in support/dps or even soloing a boss after an almost-wipe. That feeling of providing a massive contribution in a party is addictive. That is where all the appeal is in a 5-party dungeon, and it is really too bad not much more was done to develop it. In this way it was really casual friendly, as the barriers to entry for not-so-good players were very low. Just 1 or 2 good players in the party, and everyone is on there way to having fun.

Hopefully I’m able to experience something similar in this new 10-party pug composition.

(edited by Tom Yzf.5872)

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Posted by: deSade.9437

deSade.9437

My fear with the “no more dungeons, only fractals” is that the majority of fractals are one, maybe two encounters, give crap rewards, and then there’s the whole RNG mess (thankfully that’s going away).

But.. the rng isn’t going away? The rng on fractal skins 1.0 is going away, yeah, but the rest will still be rng. All the new rewards will be (minus backpack). From what I’ve gathered, at least :/

“Completing these dailies will give players a chance at the fractal weapon skins, ascended equipment, infused rings, and more.”

“At the end of every fractal, you’ll find a lockbox in the final chest called a fractal encryption. These encryptions may give you a new Mini Professor Mew, new ascended aquatic-breather recipes, high-level crafting materials, or many other rewards.”

Not sure why everyone claims that fractals won’t be rng :/ actually, from what it says here, there will be MORE rng. Oh, and

" New ascended salvage kits will be added to BUY-4373; salvaging each type of item, like gloves or weapons, will yield different results, but all will provide a chance at the new ball of dark energy salvage item"

Like, I have to salvage ascended gear for a chance to get that, am I reading right? <.<

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Posted by: Lord Kuru.3685

Lord Kuru.3685

I’ve seen people say that by making the fractals a static schedule instead of semi random they are coding themselves into a corner when it comes to adding new fractals, unless they add those new to fractals to 100+. Because of the things they bragged about with this system was how you could keep records easily since they will always be the same and always have the same instability. But if they make a new fractal and insert into the list in 5 or 6 spaced out places, it moves everything above it up a few spots which messes up the records part of it and im sure would take some interesting work to keep the instabilities with the same levels.

If they don’t make new fractals they don’t have this problem. Maybe that’s the plan?

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Posted by: Zenith.7301

Zenith.7301

Don’t like this one bit, and don’t understand how you people can be content.

Core game released with 8 dungeons, 3 alternate paths each. With a set story integrated into the world. I know a lot of newer generation MMO players don’t give a kitten about the story, but I played this game as a continuation of the GW1 story and integration to the world.

Then out comes fractals, which are basically a single path of a 3 path dungeon equivalent. Most of them besides Thaumanova or Ascalon don’t even have any coherent story whatsoever or interaction with any NPC’s or characters. Short mini dungeons except for dredge and cliffside.

I feel like we’re getting “less” packaged and branded as “more”. The fractal additions have been buggy, some still exist several years later, and the rewards are terrible RNG instead of the token system they hyped the game with before release.

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Posted by: deSade.9437

deSade.9437

Content? what? What the hell?
The only thing I’m content about today is that I found another tenor (I’m just an idiot, couldn’t believe I missed it) with such an amazing ‘700-’800 repertoire I don’t even know what’s going on. I’m definitely not content with dungeons and the measly, thin, rushed fractals we got.

(edited by deSade.9437)

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Posted by: Talyn.3295

Talyn.3295

Don’t like this one bit, and don’t understand how you people can be content.

Core game released with 8 dungeons, 3 alternate paths each. With a set story integrated into the world. I know a lot of newer generation MMO players don’t give a kitten about the story, but I played this game as a continuation of the GW1 story and integration to the world.

Then out comes fractals, which are basically a single path of a 3 path dungeon equivalent. Most of them besides Thaumanova or Ascalon don’t even have any coherent story whatsoever or interaction with any NPC’s or characters. Short mini dungeons except for dredge and cliffside.

I feel like we’re getting “less” packaged and branded as “more”. The fractal additions have been buggy, some still exist several years later, and the rewards are terrible RNG instead of the token system they hyped the game with before release.

Attachments:

“We have now left Reason and Sanity Junction. Next stop, Looneyville.”

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Posted by: Rashy.4165

Rashy.4165

Fractals are a far more practical approach to dungeons, and with 100 levels available, that’s a theoretical limit of 100 unique Fractals while sticking to a static schedule. Adding paths to existing dungeons isn’t as practical (we only got one path – Aetherblade in Twilight Arbor).

What I would expect to see though, is slight re-balancing of some of the paths and revamped rewards to make a bit more sense. Some paths are just annoying to do because they take too long and don’t give as much reward. Then there are other paths that are way more interesting to do, but are rarely run due to the effort to reward not being worth it (Aetherpath).

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Posted by: dlonie.6547

dlonie.6547

My fear with the “no more dungeons, only fractals” is that the majority of fractals are one, maybe two encounters, give crap rewards, and then there’s the whole RNG mess (thankfully that’s going away).

But.. the rng isn’t going away? The rng on fractal skins 1.0 is going away, yeah, but the rest will still be rng. All the new rewards will be (minus backpack). From what I’ve gathered, at least :/

True, some reward RNG remains. But for me, the biggest turn off was the RNG shard selection. I’d often want to play a specific fractal, but there’s no way to reliably get it unless it’s in the first tier. That’s what I meant, at least the shard RNG is going away.

Don’t like this one bit, and don’t understand how you people can be content.

Core game released with 8 dungeons, 3 alternate paths each. With a set story integrated into the world. I know a lot of newer generation MMO players don’t give a kitten about the story, but I played this game as a continuation of the GW1 story and integration to the world.

Then out comes fractals, which are basically a single path of a 3 path dungeon equivalent. Most of them besides Thaumanova or Ascalon don’t even have any coherent story whatsoever or interaction with any NPC’s or characters. Short mini dungeons except for dredge and cliffside.

I feel like we’re getting “less” packaged and branded as “more”. The fractal additions have been buggy, some still exist several years later, and the rewards are terrible RNG instead of the token system they hyped the game with before release.

True, if you compare HoT offerings with GW2 launch offerings, it’s much, much less. But if you instead compare it to the last two years, well….it can’t be less than nothing. Honestly, I think a lot of us are just happy to hear that instanced content hasn’t been 100% completely abandoned.

But I hear ya. I’d love to see more dungeons, and wish they hadn’t given up on the format. Hopefully raids will be satisfying and we’ll see a flurry of “new” (let’s face it, it’ll be recycled content if anything) fractals in the coming months. I guess I’m not that bummed about the death of dungeons because that hope died long, long ago.

(edited by dlonie.6547)

Confirmed by Colin: Dungeons are Dead

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: Tongku.5326

Tongku.5326

I don’t see why they dont just assign 1-2 people to alter and rotate mechanics on the current dungeons and current boss encounters. This is often done in other MMORPGs to “liven” up old content.

I would love to see changes which would move dungeons away from the zerker meta, especially now that a-net admitted its an overall design flaw and not how the game was originally intended to play.

Juts adjust some of the bosses, no need to even do all of em, and adjust some of the trash (for example make it not skippable but much faster to deal with) and you can completely change the way and the feel a dungeon is done.

Changes such as these do not require a big manhour commitment on their part.

Heavy Deedz – COSA – SF