Guild Wars 2

Hi,

I am new to raids and I was wondering what is the current meta?

I am looking to make a raid character but not sure what to go with. Are burnzerkers totally crap now? I’ve got a glass ele in full ascended, should I just stay with that? What’s the most unwanted class and which is the most wanted? I heard you only need 1 chrono and 1 druid.

Cheers

Alot of questions… There is no “team meta” as encounters have different optimal teams. Burnzerkers were nerfed HARD, I think their DPS is lower then most other condi classes. There is a Might stacking Burnzerker build, but dunno how optimal it is.

Generally speaking

Tempests are always in demand, since DPS matters. Rev ,Thief, and Engineer seem to be shunned currently. Rev can be made irrelevant with 100% boon duration chrono builds, Why take a thief when an ele does more damage and has better utility? Engineer’s slick shoes nerf basically made it lose raid viability… Having a 2nd condi necros to bounce condi’s with epidemic is far better. DH is situationally taken, but isn’t a must have.

Glass ele is meta, if you can’t handle the heat get out of the pan. If your lucky you’ll find videos from DEKeyz2Chaos about a raid encounter (ele main). https://www.youtube.com/user/DEKeyz2Chaos/videos?sort=dd&view=0&shelf_id=1

Hornet.6357:

Alot of questions… There is no “team meta” as encounters have different optimal teams. Burnzerkers were nerfed HARD, I think their DPS is lower then most other condi classes. There is a Might stacking Burnzerker build, but dunno how optimal it is.

Generally speaking

Tempests are always in demand, since DPS matters. Rev ,Thief, and Engineer seem to be shunned currently. Rev can be made irrelevant with 100% boon duration chrono builds, Why take a thief when an ele does more damage and has better utility? Engineer’s slick shoes nerf basically made it lose raid viability… Having a 2nd condi necros to bounce condi’s with epidemic is far better. DH is situationally taken, but isn’t a must have.

Glass ele is meta, if you can’t handle the heat get out of the pan. If your lucky you’ll find videos from DEKeyz2Chaos about a raid encounter (ele main). https://www.youtube.com/user/DEKeyz2Chaos/videos?sort=dd&view=0&shelf_id=1

Ah, that makes sense.. thanks for the reply! Looks like I’ll bring my ele in and give it a shot since I’m already pretty good with the class and it’s fully geared.

Open to any other suggestions/comments too !

ps war, rev, crono and druid are in 99% of comps for every raid boss (usally only 1 of each). Ele or thief are in most comps. Other than gorsaval, ele and thief are almost dead even in dps but thief gets the edge in VG for its far greater survivability. necro and engi both fill the condi role well it just depends on which utility you need. necro has the edge as they are easier to play and more useful in more fights. DH is ok but situational. their dps trails off in movment fight and most of what they bring can be got from other classes. that being said they are still a solid option for most comps

@ OP: Yea, Burnzerkers were nerfed hard, but keep the gear set since you never know if it will get buffed again. There is a condi PS war build, but it’s far from ideal and is really a niche build for a group that either A) desperately needs condi or already has a good amount of might and is looking to squeeze a bit more DPS from the war.

Realistically, a standard PS war is better in most cases since it generates more might, which is pretty much the point of that role.

Glass ele is also very much in demand, so if you have he gear, that may be your best bet.

Hornet.6357:

Alot of questions… There is no “team meta” as encounters have different optimal teams. Burnzerkers were nerfed HARD, I think their DPS is lower then most other condi classes. There is a Might stacking Burnzerker build, but dunno how optimal it is.

Generally speaking

Tempests are always in demand, since DPS matters. Rev ,Thief, and Engineer seem to be shunned currently. Rev can be made irrelevant with 100% boon duration chrono builds, Why take a thief when an ele does more damage and has better utility? Engineer’s slick shoes nerf basically made it lose raid viability… Having a 2nd condi necros to bounce condi’s with epidemic is far better. DH is situationally taken, but isn’t a must have.

Glass ele is meta, if you can’t handle the heat get out of the pan. If your lucky you’ll find videos from DEKeyz2Chaos about a raid encounter (ele main). https://www.youtube.com/user/DEKeyz2Chaos/videos?sort=dd&view=0&shelf_id=1

Disagreed with regards to thief. The theoretical DPS is very slightly behind ele and in involved fights, it’s easier to keep up an optimal rotation on a thief, so it’s likely you won’t see a difference in actual DPS much at all between the two specs for many fights (except, of course, big hit box bosses).

As for utility, you get a lot more break bar contribution from thief and it survives damage a lot easier.

Considering that even top tier guilds still wipe on boss attempts, it’s not really realistic to look at building out raid comps with the same mentality of building out a dungeon speed run group. You do want to maximize DPS, but that’s not the only consideration.

Valik Shin.9027:

ps war, rev, crono and druid are in 99% of comps for every raid boss (usally only 1 of each). Ele or thief are in most comps. Other than gorsaval, ele and thief are almost dead even in dps but thief gets the edge in VG for its far greater survivability. necro and engi both fill the condi role well it just depends on which utility you need. necro has the edge as they are easier to play and more useful in more fights. DH is ok but situational. their dps trails off in movment fight and most of what they bring can be got from other classes. that being said they are still a solid option for most comps

who wins out in Gorsaval between ele and thief?

Thanks for the reply

Lygon.4896:

Valik Shin.9027:

ps war, rev, crono and druid are in 99% of comps for every raid boss (usally only 1 of each). Ele or thief are in most comps. Other than gorsaval, ele and thief are almost dead even in dps but thief gets the edge in VG for its far greater survivability. necro and engi both fill the condi role well it just depends on which utility you need. necro has the edge as they are easier to play and more useful in more fights. DH is ok but situational. their dps trails off in movment fight and most of what they bring can be got from other classes. that being said they are still a solid option for most comps

who wins out in Gorsaval between ele and thief?

Thanks for the reply

Ele. They do massive dps against big hit boxes and are great for clearing orbs.

- Ele vs Thief at Gorseval? Ele is the best. In theory in raid the Staff tempest against Gorsveval will do around 6% more dps. This number might be lower in reality because the rotation of a thief is higher, and it’s slighly easier to stay up with a thief, but at best they are pretty much equal in dps at Gorvesal. That said, Tempest is godly against the orbs with lava front. So you usually want at least 1 or 2 tempest there. After that thief or tempest, it’s not important.

- Like other said you gonna pretty much always want 1 PS warrior, 1 Druid, 1 Chronomancer. The revenant depend. Most group want 1 to buff the Chronomancer quickness and his cc. But recently more and more chronomancer go full Commander stats. That way they can reach 100% boon duration without the Revenant and nobody care about the lost of dps because Chronomancer dps is like 35-45% of other professions so losing some dps on that so you can replace the Herald for another profession is a win win. Especially since Chrono make a super tank for VG and Gorseval anyway.

- Reapers, Tempests, DHs, 1 second Druid and 1 second PS will fill up the group depending on what you need on each fight.

- Condi Engie and Thief are the less wanted profession. Don’t get me wrong they get the job done. Condi Engie have great quality of life and good dps, but without his old cc capability and a very hard rotation to master, there is just better choice usually. Thief have one of the best dps, but bring zero utility to most fight.

- There is very few reason to bring a burnzerker. His dps is not really higher than PS Warrior, which isn’t that great. There is better option than burnzerker for dps, for condi and for buff. But having a burnzerker in your team won’t be the reason of a fail.

I main my Tempest in raid right now, but I would suggest you to have other profession also because Tempest is more of a dps filler. All fight have like a list of role you absolutely need to fill. And tempest is near indispensable only at Gorseval. Otherwise it only bring utility just in case, can be replace by another profession that can do a better job, or just bring DPS. At VG, sabetha and Bandit trio it’s pretty much just a dps, at Slothazor it can do the job, but i prefer DH and Reaper there, and at Matthias only feel the burn can be great utility for the first phase. What I mean, is that you can play Tempest in all fight, but for most fight it will need to fill out all the important role first, and tempest will be one of the preferred profession to fill the remaining spot.

Our group runs something like

- 1 chrono
- 1 rev
- 2-3 necros/reapers
- 1 ps war
- 1-2 druid
- 1 DH
- fill the rest with eles

Glass eles are good for raid, having some extra gear set to be a healing auramancer can be useful too in pugs but not always necessary if the group is somewhat good.

I’d say thief and condi engy are the lowest demand now especially in pug grps. Even though Chrono and Druid only 1 is needed per party, it feels most players don’t play those 2 classes much so it might be good to have one. Everybody has a PS warrior pretty much so no reason to roll one unless you really want to because you wanna be flexible in raid and be able to multi class/use a rarer or more useful class (eg. ele).

So I do play a thief in raids btw also, and have killed all but sloth with it. Staff eles theoretical max dps is significantly higher on large hit boxes… This shouldn’t be in dispute, new rotation does 49k dps* vs Thiefs 35k. If ele switches to dagger he does DPS comparable to thief, but his offhand is where the utility can be really strong. Swirling winds, Obi flesh, Heat sync, cyclone, waterglobe, water overload…. These are just from weapon choices. Then there’s auramancers that proc protection. So yes, DPS wise thief is arguably equal on some of the fights, but ele is better for the team in the long run.

• -https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2M3engTZfn8&feature=youtu.be

Hornet.6357:

Then there’s auramancers that proc protection.

Well, ele can’t give out protection auras to a party without a massive dps drop, as that requires two defensive trait lines, neither of which is Tempest. Earth/Water/Tempest is the lowest dps tempest trait setup. Staff is trash without fire, and dagger is weak without air.

You could run just earth, and still take one of fire or air and still have ok dps, but protection is then limited to 3 seconds per shout you slot on your bar, which isn’t that great.

Only one PS war is pretty kitten imo, especially if he’s going to pug.

I’m actually really surprised that we haven’t seen any group-wide DPS tests with the new golem test area. I’d think that this would be the perfect way to evaluate different raid comps and to determine whether it’s better to run something like 1 PS war or 2.

Dahkeus.8243:

I’m actually really surprised that we haven’t seen any group-wide DPS tests with the new golem test area. I’d think that this would be the perfect way to evaluate different raid comps and to determine whether it’s better to run something like 1 PS war or 2.

qT mentioned in their personal dps tests that the golems died too fast to 10man groups.

Dahkeus.8243:

I’m actually really surprised that we haven’t seen any group-wide DPS tests with the new golem test area. I’d think that this would be the perfect way to evaluate different raid comps and to determine whether it’s better to run something like 1 PS war or 2.

It would only be to some degree since you’d still be testing in an environment with no mechanics and whatnot. Of course it would still be better than nothing by far, but as has been said, golems die too fast sadly.

Lygon.4896:

Hi,

I am new to raids and I was wondering what is the current meta?

I am looking to make a raid character but not sure what to go with. Are burnzerkers totally crap now? I’ve got a glass ele in full ascended, should I just stay with that? What’s the most unwanted class and which is the most wanted? I heard you only need 1 chrono and 1 druid.

Cheers

Think of it like this, you either face a DPS challenge or a mechanical challenge, the latter of which requires more utility in your team and might require profession specific skills (Ranger/mesmer/DH terrain).

For the DPS challenge ya wanna run with a core group of buffers/ccers/utility. This is the backbone of your raid: 1 Ranger ( incredible heals+buffs), 1 Mesmer ( tank/buffer/utility), 1 Phalanx warrior ( for the might and unique buffs, some cc). The other 6/7 slots are mainly DPSers, this is where Eles are king and rule, reapers are great for condi damage.

Revenant is in the middle, they deal great dps ( 30kish), are easy to play, provide plenty support, great break bar skills and have unique buffs. Most groups will take one atleast. Thieves/guards/engis are great but not popular, as long as you take one of the other professions you will get plenty groups. This does not mean that I think of thieves/guards and engis as useless professions, they are just not in demand.

Hornet.6357:

So I do play a thief in raids btw also, and have killed all but sloth with it. Staff eles theoretical max dps is significantly higher on large hit boxes… This shouldn’t be in dispute, new rotation does 49k dps* vs Thiefs 35k. If ele switches to dagger he does DPS comparable to thief, but his offhand is where the utility can be really strong. Swirling winds, Obi flesh, Heat sync, cyclone, waterglobe, water overload…. These are just from weapon choices. Then there’s auramancers that proc protection. So yes, DPS wise thief is arguably equal on some of the fights, but ele is better for the team in the long run.

• -https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2M3engTZfn8&feature=youtu.be

staff is only that high on gorsaval. For everything else if you go practical dps a thief will beat an ele and the thief will have more cc. If you bring focus for the untility as an ele you lose more dps. This isn’t to say ele is bad they are very good, but thief is also really good for dps and break bars. Thief is also far more survivable. So unless you are at gorsaval or need the swirling winds at sloth, there is nothing wrong with taking a thief over an ele

Staff is extremely good at Slothasor for its massive hit box and the cleave on the adds. I’vebeen to a semi friend group that replaced ele with thieves and did fine in the dps department too. The only problem we had to get used to is the lack of group stun break after breaking Sloth defiance bar, which requires either the druid well timed glyph of equality (no frost spirit) or everyone’s on their own for blocking/breaking stun. That’s a huge bonus for bringing tempest there.

For other bosses, DPS aside, tempest is one of the safest class to play with all the small heal and Rebound, and even mistform when you’re down to easily save your kitten .

While DPS is king and will always be important, most of the fights deal more with mechanics than anything else. If you have a good group of players all doing their job, then as long as you survive the DPS should be there. I run with a group of friends and we usually have 2 revenants in the raid, not optimal sure, but we still get all 6 bosses each week.

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

Only one PS war is pretty kitten imo, especially if he’s going to pug.

Not really. It really depend on your squad, but you would be surprise how much more dps your group can do by keeping only 1 PS Warrior.

Thaddeus.4891:

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

Only one PS war is pretty kitten imo, especially if he’s going to pug.

Not really. It really depend on your squad, but you would be surprise how much more dps your group can do by keeping only 1 PS Warrior.

So you would really trust pugs to keep 25 might across the whole squad constantly with one PS war without them having a rev and two mesmers (and two mesmers are pretty worthless in the first place imo)? Even more organized/better groups I’ve seen struggle badly with that.

I tried 1 PS war too and it felt so much worse, otherwise I wouldn’t suggest against it.

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

So you would really trust pugs to keep 25 might across the whole squad constantly with one PS war without them having a rev and two mesmers (and two mesmers are pretty worthless in the first place imo)? Even more organized/better groups I’ve seen struggle badly with that.

I tried 1 PS war too and it felt so much worse, otherwise I wouldn’t suggest against it.

Read after me : ‘’It really depend on your squad’‘. Again ’’It really depend on your squad’’.

No i wouldn’t trust a pug with 1 PS Warrior, no rev and no mesmer. But I trust my squad with 1 PS Warrior, 1 Rev and 1 Mesmer for some fight. I usually want to keep 2 PS warrior for some fight, but Monday we went through all fight with only 1 PS Warrior by mistake. The guys that was suppose to swap to the 2nd Warrior at Gorseval didn’t and we didn’t saw it. But again.

‘’It really depend on your squad’’ All I’m saying, is that a lot of groups are overbuffing the might.

My Monday group has a 7-2-1 comp and we never have any issue with Might, which is also the main reason I can never convince my group to go with 2 PS comp setup. It really depends on the people you play with. Some definitely can do the seemingly impossible.

In pugs, I would give everyone the benefit of doubt. If DPS is an issue, it could be individual DPS rotation sucks, or inadequate Might, Quickness, Alacrity or not enough boon bouncing or too many going down, or druids not doing a good job or someone kitten s a certain mechanics that heavily impedes the DPS, or lag or glitches and etc.

staff is only that high on gorsaval. For everything else if you go practical dps a thief will beat an ele and the thief will have more cc. If you bring focus for the untility as an ele you lose more dps. This isn’t to say ele is bad they are very good, but thief is also really good for dps and break bars. Thief is also far more survivable. So unless you are at gorsaval or need the swirling winds at sloth, there is nothing wrong with taking a thief over an ele

Wash the pain away is enough of a reason on its own to pick ele over thief imo for every encounter so far but some other things ele offers which are incredible:

Slothasor: More than 1/4 full group projectile destruction uptime, AoE instant stun break for fear, superior AoE damage, AoE healing.

Bandit trio: Far superior AoE damage. Can proc oil slick easily (less important).

Matthias: Easy clearing of icy patches, higher range (d/w) to allow for higher dps uptime when cyclones and ghosts pass through and when you have a bomb. Easy potential for multiple fast group condi cleanses if required. Fast AoE healing. Wipe avoidance potential with rebound. Mist form to get back to group if downed at well/wall.

Gorseval: Higher dps by a decent margin, easy clearing of orbs, aoe instant stun break for people who fail to dodge. Wipe avoidance potential during cc with rebound. AoE healing.

Vale guardian: Good seeker control with flash freeze. Wipe avoidance potential with rebound. AoE healing. Mist form to get back to group if ported and downed.

Sabetha: Better cleave, AoE healing. Mist form to get back to group if downed away from group (e.g on the way back from cannon or due to a bomb or something).

Hopefully the next raid wing implements mechanics uniquely solvable with thief as I would like to see it played more. I’m not an expert on thief so if you want to give some advantages of thief for each encounter feel free, note that the advantages I’ve listed are for benefiting PuG groups.

They both have their own advantages. Breakbars are important, and vapor form isn’t really an advantage. Thief can move while downed too.
Yeah I would take an ele more often, but there can be plenty of reason to take thief.

What’s the reasons to take thief?

Valik Shin.9027:

Hornet.6357:

So I do play a thief in raids btw also, and have killed all but sloth with it. Staff eles theoretical max dps is significantly higher on large hit boxes… This shouldn’t be in dispute, new rotation does 49k dps* vs Thiefs 35k. If ele switches to dagger he does DPS comparable to thief, but his offhand is where the utility can be really strong. Swirling winds, Obi flesh, Heat sync, cyclone, waterglobe, water overload…. These are just from weapon choices. Then there’s auramancers that proc protection. So yes, DPS wise thief is arguably equal on some of the fights, but ele is better for the team in the long run.

• -https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2M3engTZfn8&feature=youtu.be

staff is only that high on gorsaval. For everything else if you go practical dps a thief will beat an ele and the thief will have more cc. If you bring focus for the untility as an ele you lose more dps. This isn’t to say ele is bad they are very good, but thief is also really good for dps and break bars. Thief is also far more survivable. So unless you are at gorsaval or need the swirling winds at sloth, there is nothing wrong with taking a thief over an ele

There is literally no reason to take thief over ele in ANY FIGHT.

>you go practical dps a thief will beat an ele and the thief will have more cc

Explain more about this. Ele has more range, which is useful againts mobile boss like Matt,VG and Sloth. Ele also much better at cleaving adds and don’t forget about static charge which is a raid wide dps boost. Ele also gives group heal from wash the pain away, feel the burn and elemental bastion.

Also, eles have their own use in every boss
VG = seeker control, green circle back up, some healing for tank and melee team
Gors = Orbs
Sab = Cleaving adds, taking care of turrets without losing any dps with overload air
Sloth= Projectile management, mass stun break
Trio = kiting narella flak, cleaving adds, mass stun break
Matt = clearing ice patch, condi cleanse, mass stun break

Meanwhile, what does thief bring? CC which is still inferior to DH and DPS which is still inferior to ele??? Zerk Thieves also bring ZERO utility, no pull, no group heal, no unique group buff and not really good at cleaving adds. It’s been proven that with alacrity ele will outdps thief WITHOUT counting static charge. I’m not sure how people are still delusional about thief is more “practical” than ele in raids.

fishball.7204:

What’s the reasons to take thief?

breakbar is the main one. ele is possibly the worst class for breakbars, while thief is one of the best. And if you need really heavy break bar damage, venomshare thief has the best burst breaks in the game while doing dps on par with engineer, and much more easily. easy to maintain even in the hardest situations, while also offering sustain that’s even stronger than wash the pain away.

reikken.4961:

fishball.7204:

What’s the reasons to take thief?

breakbar is the main one. ele is possibly the worst class for breakbars, while thief is one of the best. And if you need really heavy break bar damage, venomshare thief has the best burst breaks in the game while doing dps on par with engineer, and much more easily. easy to maintain even in the hardest situations, while also offering sustain that’s even stronger than wash the pain away.

^ This. However, I think the ideal situation is thief with ele, rather than just considering thief or ele in a vacuum.

Ele is awesome and definitely more valuable to an extent on a lot of fights. However, once you have all the eles you need for handling icy patches, orbs, etc., then it does become a bit more of a question of whether you want another ele or a thief.

In this situation, I think there are some fights that are just much better off with a thief than simply stacking more eles. Mathias is probably the best example. Thieves have a ton of mobility to handle mechanics efficiently and the break bar utility is particularly important. The practical DPS of this fight will also more likely favor the thief since it’s a small hit box boss that moves frequently. (example of this here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmTvqO_-6vI&feature=youtu.be)

Of course, in all fairness, it’s worth noting that qT later did a 6 person Mathias without either ele or thief. =P (https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/4cqjkf/qt_6_man_matthias_106_time_left/)

Hornet.6357:

Rev ,Thief, and Engineer seem to be shunned currently.

Those are the three classes I have raid ready…. ; _ ;