Guild Wars 2

forum bug

Oxidia.8103:

I’m not bothered by mossman exploit, but the archdiviner one. My pug party wiped around 12 times for that stupid exploit where you stack on top of the wall, we could have done it 3 times allready normal way. When i suggested normal way they acted as if i insulted everybody’s mum.

Wat. Never heard about that one.

TheRandomGuy.7246:

Oxidia.8103:

I’m not bothered by mossman exploit, but the archdiviner one. My pug party wiped around 12 times for that stupid exploit where you stack on top of the wall, we could have done it 3 times allready normal way. When i suggested normal way they acted as if i insulted everybody’s mum.

Wat. Never heard about that one.

You stand on the wall and then Archdiviner can’t melee you. The problem is most pugs are still kittened so even if they don’t die to the melee, they eat his aura blast. Also his pulling projectile still works.

It’s pretty much a fail proof way to melee Archdiviner if your party isn’t using an earth elemental or anchor guardian or chaining frost bow freezes. Which is the case for most PuGs.

It won’t be done on a meta group because you waste time running and climbing over to the broken pillar and hoping everyone drags the Archdiviner there, when instead you could frostbow freeze him and burst him down and aegis any melee swings that come after wards.

Zenith.7301:

TheRandomGuy.7246:

Oxidia.8103:

I’m not bothered by mossman exploit, but the archdiviner one. My pug party wiped around 12 times for that stupid exploit where you stack on top of the wall, we could have done it 3 times allready normal way. When i suggested normal way they acted as if i insulted everybody’s mum.

Wat. Never heard about that one.

You stand on the wall and then Archdiviner can’t melee you. The problem is most pugs are still kittened so even if they don’t die to the melee, they eat his aura blast. Also his pulling projectile still works.

It’s pretty much a fail proof way to melee Archdiviner if your party isn’t using an earth elemental or anchor guardian or chaining frost bow freezes. Which is the case for most PuGs.

It won’t be done on a meta group because you waste time running and climbing over to the broken pillar and hoping everyone drags the Archdiviner there, when instead you could frostbow freeze him and burst him down and aegis any melee swings that come after wards.

I can’t even. How common is that lol. Might as well go full nomad and do it faster by just facetanking.

It’s still fairly uncommon. Very few pugs are aware of it but with time it’ll catch on.

Fairly uncommon?? Everytime we have that fractal for the past 4weeks (and i ran fractal daily), all the pugs tend to ran there and expected me to join them. So i doubted it “fairly uncommon” at this point, it’s frustrating since i can put “no bug moss” in my lfg but getting cliffside is rng. I guess i need to also put “no bug archdiviner” in my lfg from now on…..sign

Or you can simply type “no exploits”. Smart use of terrain and all or whatever, I find it a waste of time but it’s no different from using an earth elemental to trivialize Big Tom or to basically prevent a boss from ever threatening you as you use it as a sandbag until it dies.

This game is just full of bad encounter/AI design, in any other game doing the encounter mechanics doesn’t become optional if you use terrain one way or use a single skill or two.

I stop running fractals with my guild after they insisted that cheesing Archdiviner is “normal and intended just as 90% of the stacking case in dungeons”. Loss for words. Totally disgusted and disappointed.

I know people that justify the archdiviner exploit as “legit” because the aoe wells still hit you among other things. Quite sad really.

Iris Ng.9845:

I stop running fractals with my guild after they insisted that cheesing Archdiviner is “normal and intended just as 90% of the stacking case in dungeons”. Loss for words. Totally disgusted and disappointed.

Normal and totally intended to be done this way.

Should I pass your method to my guild then? Because I’m sure I’ll never run with them.

Iris Ng.9845:

I stop running fractals with my guild after they insisted that cheesing Archdiviner is “normal and intended just as 90% of the stacking case in dungeons”. Loss for words. Totally disgusted and disappointed.

I hope my guild isn’t too annoyed at me for forcing them to do encounters normally without safespots. But hey, they can hardly say “no” at least.

Given that people only really want the reward and care little to nothing about the encounters those safe spots till be used until they get fixed. Which hopefully is soon.

After my fractal 50 today, which I finally had to remove the “no glitching Mossman” because it wasn’t filling. I tried again on a fractal 40. Again I set with my LFG up for nearly a half hour before I just gave up on the whole “No Glitching” and rolled with it, because I don’t feel like wasting hours trying to find players who are not lazy.

Tell me your secrets master! Whenever I post a LFG it gets removed every 5 min and after reposting it like 2 times I get suppressed and end up with an empty LFG message.

Maybe I’m just too elitist that no one dares to join me. :’c

Idk whenever I post LFGs for pug fotm they fill really really really fast, could it just be the hour you’re posting them? I never explicitly say “no exploiting mossman” because I just run in and start attacking him, no problems. Maybe I’m lucky :x

Or they just see your name and want to play with a celebrity. :>

RSLongK.8961:

the fun part is the “Pro zerk only :2eles, 1 war, 1 guard 1 thief” killing it on water when on land is soo much faster.

No its not. He doesn’t go into stealth underwater. On land his stealth drops your DPS significantly.

shakome.7458:

Fairly uncommon?? Everytime we have that fractal for the past 4weeks (and i ran fractal daily), all the pugs tend to ran there and expected me to join them. So i doubted it “fairly uncommon” at this point, it’s frustrating since i can put “no bug moss” in my lfg but getting cliffside is rng. I guess i need to also put “no bug archdiviner” in my lfg from now on…..sign

I’ve only seen it once out of 5 or 6 times I’ve done that one in the past 3 weeks.

Not sure why people do it, the final boss fight is probably the easiest part of that fractal.

Wasabi Kitty.8247:

RSLongK.8961:

the fun part is the “Pro zerk only :2eles, 1 war, 1 guard 1 thief” killing it on water when on land is soo much faster.

No its not. He doesn’t go into stealth underwater. On land his stealth drops your DPS significantly.

You can still cleave him even if he is in stealth. It’s certainly faster to kill him on land, if you just stay close enough to the others in your party to prevent him from running or porting all over the place.

Taku.6352:

Tell me your secrets master! Whenever I post a LFG it gets removed every 5 min and after reposting it like 2 times I get suppressed and end up with an empty LFG message.

Maybe I’m just too elitist that no one dares to join me. :’c

It’s in the mechanism. Try to invite a friend who stays afk and doesn’t have to accept your invitation. It helps your LFG to stay infinitely. Cancel the invite when your group starts filling.

Wasabi Kitty.8247:

RSLongK.8961:

the fun part is the “Pro zerk only :2eles, 1 war, 1 guard 1 thief” killing it on water when on land is soo much faster.

No its not. He doesn’t go into stealth underwater. On land his stealth drops your DPS significantly.

Stealth =/= invulnerable. You can still easily see where he is from the minimap and spam AoE/cleave on him. Sure ranger and mesmers suffer a bit because they need a target to keep up their dps.

Also by the time you’ve pulled mossy UW your party would’ve probably done decent amount of dmg to him with initial burst.

Iris Ng.9845:

Taku.6352:

Tell me your secrets master! Whenever I post a LFG it gets removed every 5 min and after reposting it like 2 times I get suppressed and end up with an empty LFG message.

Maybe I’m just too elitist that no one dares to join me. :’c

It’s in the mechanism. Try to invite a friend who stays afk and doesn’t have to accept your invitation. It helps your LFG to stay infinitely. Cancel the invite when your group starts filling.

Ahmahgad, finally a use for all those inactive ppl on friends list.

Wasabi Kitty.8247:

RSLongK.8961:

the fun part is the “Pro zerk only :2eles, 1 war, 1 guard 1 thief” killing it on water when on land is soo much faster.

No its not. He doesn’t go into stealth underwater. On land his stealth drops your DPS significantly.

Good thing all of the highest dps classes use cleave or aoe. If you’re even feeling particularly kitten you can still strip defiance and freeze while he’s stealthed.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Enko.6123:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Why not just give the mossman some nice scary skills for underwater combat?

he has underwater skills already.

I never said that he didn’t have any under water skills, and I have definitely never seen the mossman use anything under water that I could categorize as scary.

I’m sure if you close your eyes and try really hard you can imagine several hundred ways players could be kept out of the water, with varying degrees of success.

Obviously Anet has some aversion to implementing the teleport in/lockout feature used in so many other areas of the game (mai trinn, clockheart, old tom, molten duo, etc.) for this particular encounter…. unless they are just being lazy with their game fixes.

So if they are avoiding the obvious fix for some reason… why would it be out of the question to just have the Mossman destroy players in seconds once he enters the water?

Hell… he doesn’t even need to hit with an attack… he could apply something like THIS in an area of 5000 around him which only affects players who are under water.

Again…. like i said.
I’m sure you can use your imagination to find hundreds if not thousands of ways to keep players out of the water…

Maybe Anet will put a little more effort into it this time, instead of half-implementing it like the skelk “fix”.

And they don’t have to do anything imaginative or give him some stupid one shot kill aura. Heck just give him a similar skillset to Wollam or Sorge underwater and it would be fine.

Fix his AI so when he teleports into the water, he’ll start using his normal underwater attacks. When people start getting thrashed and can’t just stand next to him and spam their skills, they’ll either learn how to fight him underwater or they’ll learn to fight him on land.

They could also just remove the underwater section and make that a tunnel you walk through.

Removing water would likely be easiest (assuming geometry actually allows you to walk up to the boss rooms?). I probably would have the walls pop back up after engaging the boss and putting an “entrance” interact like they have for some other bosses (like Snowblind for instance).

Jerus.4350:

Removing water would likely be easiest (assuming geometry actually allows you to walk up to the boss rooms?). I probably would have the walls pop back up after engaging the boss and putting an “entrance” interact like they have for some other bosses (like Snowblind for instance).

The easiest thing would be to add more skelk to the water, and have them go further back. Or to close off that path and make everyone fight mossman. If it were my job, I’d make the mossman’s skills all work perfectly in water (and remove the skilks as unnecessary) such that there would be no gain whatsoever to fighting him in the water because you’d still get agony axed and there’d be as many wolves as ever.

Actually, if it were my job I would just for one day remove the swamp fractal from the rotation just to see long people continued to roll for swamp to start. I would, naturally, be fired but it would be so worth it.

I miss doing the underwater fractal ;(

Someone posted this in the other mossman forum that has popped up a few days ago.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Safespots-and-Exploits/page/2#post4338224

Elitejelly.7462:

Someone posted this in the other mossman forum that has popped up a few days ago.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Safespots-and-Exploits/page/2#post4338224

So basically Arenanet’s stance on this is: we kitten up our PvE any way we want and you are allowed to exploit that because we just don’t give a kitten? This is really amazing.

Kenaron.3654:

Actually, if it were my job I would just for one day remove the swamp fractal from the rotation just to see long people continued to roll for swamp to start. I would, naturally, be fired but it would be so worth it.

I’ve already suffered through the experience of it taking 71 tries to roll for swamp in 2014 before.

I was at one point beginning to think that what you just typed actually had happened.

So, yeah if they actually did this I can guarantee I’d keep trying but it would probably be to see if I could beat my old [WORLD RECORD] swamp roll.

Tom Yzf.5872:

Fixing bugs in dungeons/fractals goes a long way in making the content more enjoyable. Take the Ancient Ooze for example. So many plebs exploiting it on that dumb coral until anet fixed it. After players figured it out, they can actually do it without hiding behind some silly exploit… oh look, it wasn’t so bad after all.

Crying “oh anet dont’ care, we just want gold, blah blah” when encountering a legit complaint like fixing an exploit is just pathetic.

Wait, the 900-1200 range exploit where it doesnt move/do anything is fixed?

Harny.6012:

Tom Yzf.5872:

Fixing bugs in dungeons/fractals goes a long way in making the content more enjoyable. Take the Ancient Ooze for example. So many plebs exploiting it on that dumb coral until anet fixed it. After players figured it out, they can actually do it without hiding behind some silly exploit… oh look, it wasn’t so bad after all.

Crying “oh anet dont’ care, we just want gold, blah blah” when encountering a legit complaint like fixing an exploit is just pathetic.

Wait, the 900-1200 range exploit where it doesnt move/do anything is fixed?

Nope. You can still bug it and make it look silly.

I rekon’ i pug arah with randoms more than most who post in this forum. Pugs generally don’t bother exploiting the ooze anymore, they just melee and dodge and repeat.

But that doesn’t stop you specifically from doing those silly exploits yourself of course.

Taku.6352:

Right click -> kick from party/leave party.

If Pugs cannot kill mossman normally then they can’t probably kill anything else normally and it’d be easier to find a new party.

^ This, Mossman is a good indicator of noobiness. Better to find out sooner than later that your party is going to be stuck for hours at some of the more difficult fights.

Archon.6480:

Taku.6352:

Right click -> kick from party/leave party.

If Pugs cannot kill mossman normally then they can’t probably kill anything else normally and it’d be easier to find a new party.

^ This, Mossman is a good indicator of noobiness. Better to find out sooner than later that your party is going to be stuck for hours at some of the more difficult fights.

The only larger PuG breakers are Mai Trin and MAYBE then Snow fractal. All the other bosses can be whittled down easy by most PuGs.

Mossman just seems easy when you’re not in a PuG and you’re chaining Deep Freeze on him with communal defenses aegis spam and wall from the guardian.

His melee hits nearly as hard as archdiviner, he does it more often than archdiviner, and the axe throw is a far less noticeable telegraph in melee range with all the spell clutter compared to all the large wind up skills of arch diviner.

On a stacking group that fails to use aegis and reflects properly that axe bouncing around stacked people is going to annihilate most average pugs.

Guardian and staff ele are really misleading to a group. The guardian just trivializes anything in this game, and the staff ele can stand easily outside max melee to be in buffing range but completely safe from most cleave/autoattacks while doing more damage than anyone who is melee.

There’s a reason why in fractals despite mesmer being the meta in speed clears, it is guardians who pugs want over mesmers.

Zenith.7301:

Archon.6480:

Taku.6352:

Right click -> kick from party/leave party.

If Pugs cannot kill mossman normally then they can’t probably kill anything else normally and it’d be easier to find a new party.

^ This, Mossman is a good indicator of noobiness. Better to find out sooner than later that your party is going to be stuck for hours at some of the more difficult fights.

The only larger PuG breakers are Mai Trin and MAYBE then Snow fractal. All the other bosses can be whittled down easy by most PuGs.

Mossman just seems easy when you’re not in a PuG and you’re chaining Deep Freeze on him with communal defenses aegis spam and wall from the guardian.

His melee hits nearly as hard as archdiviner, he does it more often than archdiviner, and the axe throw is a far less noticeable telegraph in melee range with all the spell clutter compared to all the large wind up skills of arch diviner.

On a stacking group that fails to use aegis and reflects properly that axe bouncing around stacked people is going to annihilate most average pugs.

Guardian and staff ele are really misleading to a group. The guardian just trivializes anything in this game, and the staff ele can stand easily outside max melee to be in buffing range but completely safe from most cleave/autoattacks while doing more damage than anyone who is melee.

There’s a reason why in fractals despite mesmer being the meta in speed clears, it is guardians who pugs want over mesmers.

In my experience, the PUG breaker wouldn’t be the Snowblind, but rather Cliffside :P

Kordash.2197:

Zenith.7301:

Archon.6480:

Taku.6352:

Right click -> kick from party/leave party.

If Pugs cannot kill mossman normally then they can’t probably kill anything else normally and it’d be easier to find a new party.

^ This, Mossman is a good indicator of noobiness. Better to find out sooner than later that your party is going to be stuck for hours at some of the more difficult fights.

The only larger PuG breakers are Mai Trin and MAYBE then Snow fractal. All the other bosses can be whittled down easy by most PuGs.

Mossman just seems easy when you’re not in a PuG and you’re chaining Deep Freeze on him with communal defenses aegis spam and wall from the guardian.

His melee hits nearly as hard as archdiviner, he does it more often than archdiviner, and the axe throw is a far less noticeable telegraph in melee range with all the spell clutter compared to all the large wind up skills of arch diviner.

On a stacking group that fails to use aegis and reflects properly that axe bouncing around stacked people is going to annihilate most average pugs.

Guardian and staff ele are really misleading to a group. The guardian just trivializes anything in this game, and the staff ele can stand easily outside max melee to be in buffing range but completely safe from most cleave/autoattacks while doing more damage than anyone who is melee.

There’s a reason why in fractals despite mesmer being the meta in speed clears, it is guardians who pugs want over mesmers.

In my experience, the PUG breaker wouldn’t be the Snowblind, but rather Cliffside :P

In my experience, and why I prefer Cliffside for PUGs instead of Snowbind:

-If your group doesn’t have a thief, chances are someone will die while kiting the Svanirs, because most PUGs wont bother using situationally good skills for that part.

-Now you have wait for the whole group to OOC while avoiding ticks of frostbite (and agony if scale 40/50). Most PUGs wont return to the Svanir fireplace area where it’s easy to remove the frostbites and get OOC, and when they do, chances are someone will aggro the Svanir standing there and prolong the process.

-At the Elemental Source, some PUGs for some reason grow impatient and decide to burn it, while not making any effort to change to a more favorable build for the situation (i.e more reflects, stabilities, pulling the Ice elementals to the source for cleaves etc). This leads to the group getting KB around, aggroing a lot of Ice Elementals and quickly wiping.

-After wiping, some PUGs will just say “screw it” and yolo rush the Elemental Source with Icebows, trying to hit that glorious IB #4 or Endure Pain-Hundred Blades before dying. Repeat.

-Dark forest path is usually OK, despite most PUG warriors always going yolo ahead of the group even though there is a thief/engi ready to mass-stealth.

-Svanir Boss is OK.

Cliffside I usually only see problems with, curiously, the first Archdiviner fight. Most people still can’t react to his leap attack hitbox (Admittedly, the hitbox is kinda bogus), which leads to people getting downed, people trying to ress, and ressers getting downed in the process. 0 aegis given.

It is actually a lot faster to yolo elemental source rather than trying to pull elementals and do it normal way. At level 50 2 wipes should be enough.

Why wipe? If people run behind the shacks when ported worst case scenario you have one elemental or two to kill. The guardian/mesmer pull them to the bonfire, you burn them down in a matter of seconds, and get back to the ice source.

With yolo you waste time dying to the elementals while pushing a phase, and then MORE time respawning and running all the way back.

It’s actually aggravating when I see these people just try to yolo it down and it ends up wasting more time than just pulling the elementals together with a single skill and blowing them up.

Aggroing the elementals is entirely avoidable, but for some reason people just want to bumrush it.

And quite frankly that start stinks of graveyard rushing that was changed for a reason. You should be punished for wiping. The thing should reset so people actually care to learn the encounter.

TheRandomGuy.7246:

It is actually a lot faster to yolo elemental source rather than trying to pull elementals and do it normal way. At level 50 2 wipes should be enough.

That’s assuming your PUG knows what it is doing after a wipe. I’ve seen more than 2 wipes before because most people just get KB right into an Ice Elemental AoE and die, all due to lack of stability or simply because they failed to dodge.

With proper pathing after the teleport, your group should only be aggroing like 2-3 Ice elementals, which can be killed very fast with a good pull and then you can proceed to focus the Source safely.

Depending on your group the normal way ends up being way faster.

Edit:

Zenith.7301:

And quite frankly that start stinks of graveyard rushing that was changed for a reason. You should be punished for wiping. The thing should reset so people actually care to learn the encounter.

Agreed. This should apply to Mai Trin rush aswell.

Agree about Mai Trin as well, although the buggy kitten canon phase projectiles hitting people without telegraph circles is pretty dumb so I feel less bad when people exploit her. That fight is just cancer with the poor telegraphikittentle human NPC tells covered in spell effects, and unintuitive unblockable projectiles.

tatsunoko.5126:

In my experience, and why I prefer Cliffside for PUGs instead of Snowbind:

-If your group doesn’t have a thief, chances are someone will die while kiting the Svanirs, because most PUGs wont bother using situationally good skills for that part.

-Now you have wait for the whole group to OOC while avoiding ticks of frostbite (and agony if scale 40/50). Most PUGs wont return to the Svanir fireplace area where it’s easy to remove the frostbites and get OOC, and when they do, chances are someone will aggro the Svanir standing there and prolong the process.

-At the Elemental Source, some PUGs for some reason grow impatient and decide to burn it, while not making any effort to change to a more favorable build for the situation (i.e more reflects, stabilities, pulling the Ice elementals to the source for cleaves etc). This leads to the group getting KB around, aggroing a lot of Ice Elementals and quickly wiping.

-After wiping, some PUGs will just say “screw it” and yolo rush the Elemental Source with Icebows, trying to hit that glorious IB #4 or Endure Pain-Hundred Blades before dying. Repeat.

-Dark forest path is usually OK, despite most PUG warriors always going yolo ahead of the group even though there is a thief/engi ready to mass-stealth.

-Svanir Boss is OK.

Cliffside I usually only see problems with, curiously, the first Archdiviner fight. Most people still can’t react to his leap attack hitbox (Admittedly, the hitbox is kinda bogus), which leads to people getting downed, people trying to ress, and ressers getting downed in the process. 0 aegis given.

I have no idea why you having troubles with pug snowblind, its more than trivial. Elemental source takes like 3-4min of time, 1-2 wipes and guardian who placing WoR by cooldown.
Elementals can be completely ignored, and must be ignored, because killing them without competent premade is a waste of time, some pug always will screw up and die/aggro additional ones, straight burst to source is much faster and much more reliable.

tatsunoko.5126:

Kordash.2197:

Zenith.7301:

Archon.6480:

Taku.6352:

Right click -> kick from party/leave party.

If Pugs cannot kill mossman normally then they can’t probably kill anything else normally and it’d be easier to find a new party.

^ This, Mossman is a good indicator of noobiness. Better to find out sooner than later that your party is going to be stuck for hours at some of the more difficult fights.

The only larger PuG breakers are Mai Trin and MAYBE then Snow fractal. All the other bosses can be whittled down easy by most PuGs.

Mossman just seems easy when you’re not in a PuG and you’re chaining Deep Freeze on him with communal defenses aegis spam and wall from the guardian.

His melee hits nearly as hard as archdiviner, he does it more often than archdiviner, and the axe throw is a far less noticeable telegraph in melee range with all the spell clutter compared to all the large wind up skills of arch diviner.

On a stacking group that fails to use aegis and reflects properly that axe bouncing around stacked people is going to annihilate most average pugs.

Guardian and staff ele are really misleading to a group. The guardian just trivializes anything in this game, and the staff ele can stand easily outside max melee to be in buffing range but completely safe from most cleave/autoattacks while doing more damage than anyone who is melee.

There’s a reason why in fractals despite mesmer being the meta in speed clears, it is guardians who pugs want over mesmers.

In my experience, the PUG breaker wouldn’t be the Snowblind, but rather Cliffside :P

In my experience, and why I prefer Cliffside for PUGs instead of Snowbind:

-If your group doesn’t have a thief, chances are someone will die while kiting the Svanirs, because most PUGs wont bother using situationally good skills for that part.

-Now you have wait for the whole group to OOC while avoiding ticks of frostbite (and agony if scale 40/50). Most PUGs wont return to the Svanir fireplace area where it’s easy to remove the frostbites and get OOC, and when they do, chances are someone will aggro the Svanir standing there and prolong the process.

-At the Elemental Source, some PUGs for some reason grow impatient and decide to burn it, while not making any effort to change to a more favorable build for the situation (i.e more reflects, stabilities, pulling the Ice elementals to the source for cleaves etc). This leads to the group getting KB around, aggroing a lot of Ice Elementals and quickly wiping.

-After wiping, some PUGs will just say “screw it” and yolo rush the Elemental Source with Icebows, trying to hit that glorious IB #4 or Endure Pain-Hundred Blades before dying. Repeat.

-Dark forest path is usually OK, despite most PUG warriors always going yolo ahead of the group even though there is a thief/engi ready to mass-stealth.

-Svanir Boss is OK.

Cliffside I usually only see problems with, curiously, the first Archdiviner fight. Most people still can’t react to his leap attack hitbox (Admittedly, the hitbox is kinda bogus), which leads to people getting downed, people trying to ress, and ressers getting downed in the process. 0 aegis given.

The only tedious part in snowblind with pugs is the Source, but can be done (and is often expected by pugs) in 2-3 trys. The rest is easily soloable. Cliffside on the other hand, can fail kitten middle and shoulder seals, and very often PUGs don’t do the Archdiviner properly (Exploiting him, or dying every single time he pops reflections).

But well, it’s on our personnal experiences, so kind of useless to discuss it ^^

shakome.7458:

Fairly uncommon?? Everytime we have that fractal for the past 4weeks (and i ran fractal daily), all the pugs tend to ran there and expected me to join them. So i doubted it “fairly uncommon” at this point, it’s frustrating since i can put “no bug moss” in my lfg but getting cliffside is rng. I guess i need to also put “no bug archdiviner” in my lfg from now on…..sign

I was forced, for the first time, to fight archdiviner this way today. The worst thing is everyone in the party was ranged (3 ele, 1 ranger, 1 engi) and I thought people did this for easy melee…

Kordash.2197:

Zenith.7301:

Archon.6480:

Taku.6352:

Right click -> kick from party/leave party.

If Pugs cannot kill mossman normally then they can’t probably kill anything else normally and it’d be easier to find a new party.

^ This, Mossman is a good indicator of noobiness. Better to find out sooner than later that your party is going to be stuck for hours at some of the more difficult fights.

The only larger PuG breakers are Mai Trin and MAYBE then Snow fractal. All the other bosses can be whittled down easy by most PuGs.

Mossman just seems easy when you’re not in a PuG and you’re chaining Deep Freeze on him with communal defenses aegis spam and wall from the guardian.

His melee hits nearly as hard as archdiviner, he does it more often than archdiviner, and the axe throw is a far less noticeable telegraph in melee range with all the spell clutter compared to all the large wind up skills of arch diviner.

On a stacking group that fails to use aegis and reflects properly that axe bouncing around stacked people is going to annihilate most average pugs.

Guardian and staff ele are really misleading to a group. The guardian just trivializes anything in this game, and the staff ele can stand easily outside max melee to be in buffing range but completely safe from most cleave/autoattacks while doing more damage than anyone who is melee.

There’s a reason why in fractals despite mesmer being the meta in speed clears, it is guardians who pugs want over mesmers.

In my experience, the PUG breaker wouldn’t be the Snowblind, but rather Cliffside :P

Only issue with cliffside is with the seals after chest if someone in your party kills the second chanter at the first seal.

Wasabi Kitty.8247:

Kordash.2197:

Zenith.7301:

Archon.6480:

Taku.6352:

Right click -> kick from party/leave party.

If Pugs cannot kill mossman normally then they can’t probably kill anything else normally and it’d be easier to find a new party.

^ This, Mossman is a good indicator of noobiness. Better to find out sooner than later that your party is going to be stuck for hours at some of the more difficult fights.

The only larger PuG breakers are Mai Trin and MAYBE then Snow fractal. All the other bosses can be whittled down easy by most PuGs.

Mossman just seems easy when you’re not in a PuG and you’re chaining Deep Freeze on him with communal defenses aegis spam and wall from the guardian.

His melee hits nearly as hard as archdiviner, he does it more often than archdiviner, and the axe throw is a far less noticeable telegraph in melee range with all the spell clutter compared to all the large wind up skills of arch diviner.

On a stacking group that fails to use aegis and reflects properly that axe bouncing around stacked people is going to annihilate most average pugs.

Guardian and staff ele are really misleading to a group. The guardian just trivializes anything in this game, and the staff ele can stand easily outside max melee to be in buffing range but completely safe from most cleave/autoattacks while doing more damage than anyone who is melee.

There’s a reason why in fractals despite mesmer being the meta in speed clears, it is guardians who pugs want over mesmers.

In my experience, the PUG breaker wouldn’t be the Snowblind, but rather Cliffside :P

Only issue with cliffside is with the seals after chest if someone in your party kills the second chanter at the first seal.

Exactly that part. And the last boss can be a nightmare with Ele’s that doesn’t know how to handle the reflects properly. Can not even count the number of times when a pugs either deep freez me, or send me a deadly fireball in the face.