Guild Wars 2

This is just going in circles at this point.

Tl;dr

Anet should make tiers of raids so most players can experience them.

or

Anet should not make raids easier for casuals because other players enjoying content in an easier tier detracts from the feeling of superiority gained from clearing said content in a different mode.

or

Casuals won’t beat content no matter how easy it is.

HoneyBadger.5691:

This is just going in circles at this point.

Tl;dr

Anet should make tiers of raids so most players can experience them.

or

Anet should not make raids easier for casuals because other players enjoying content in an easier tier detracts from the feeling of superiority gained from clearing said content in a different mode.

or

Casuals won’t beat content no matter how easy it is.

The bold part is more like “Dont make easier mode because it may break what we have today, and not fix anything, and what we have today is in the perfect spot for THE TARGET AUDIENCE ” you know that WvWvW is not for everyone, PVP is not for everyone, PvE is not everyone, Fractal is not for everyone. Every content have its target so everyone have at least one thing in the game they like and they play for it.

Scipio.3204:

The way you worded that sounds like you think I want the current form to cease existing, but I don’t remember giving you reason for that. A minority is raiding, which is known, and I only aim to change that.

If I’m going to make an argument that multimodal raiding would change raiding then I would come at it from the point that most people in the thread don’t really know what they’re doing when they suggest this sorta thing. It might look simple but most people both underestimate the direct amount of work required and the fundamental change in game direction that comes along with such a change.

This second point you present ties into that. Trying to get the majority of people to raid is a fool’s errand. Most activities in the game should be enjoyed by a minority. A minority of players regularly run dungeons. A minority of players regularly run fractals. A minority of players compete in sPvP and WvW. There’s a very short list of activities which should be enjoyed by ‘the majority’ and for the most part that’s open world PvE and Living Story.

What matters is making sure that the door’s open to people who want to raid. And for the most part, it is. ANet are making efforts to open that door wider by equalizing material prices through Bloodstone Fen.

Scipio.3204:

Something is preventing people from doing the content, I can’t give you proof what, and I only could talk in the name of the people I spoke with, and yes, most of the issues would be resolved with an alternate version.

If you can’t present proof and the people you spoke with can’t present proof then there’s no argument here.

Scipio.3204:

Also if there are no drastic issues preventing people from getting into raiding, be my guest and explain why they don’t

It’s personal choice.
I could do the raids if I wanted to.
I could clock them in a day, I’ve got all the gear, I’ve got the raid awareness. I might need to brush up on D/H Ele since my gear’s Power, but I doubt that’ll be hard, and I’d need to review the fights.
But I don’t, because I don’t want to, because I have other priorities in the game right now.

Scipio.3204:

http://www.strawpoll.me/10553512/r

(Sidenote, this poll was created about 7 month after the first wing released on reddit, meaning people who wanted to raid had plenty of time to adapt, yet they didn’t)

Blatant misinterpretation of the data. There is no reason to assume that they have been trying to adapt for 7 months.

Also the positive respondents (36%) and your target group (38%) are within the margin of error. Roughly half of the people who want to raid have tried and reached some measure of success. That’s pretty good.

Vinceman.4572:

The poll is too old while there are so many guides out now, helping & training guilds and a more forgiving wing 3.

I still found these comments about W3 especially funny, because literally almost every W3 LFG have something like 100+ LI+killproof and sometimes tonic as well. Yes, even Glenna.

Reading some of the replies here made me realize, again, that people like to respond for the sake of responding to a topic, without any thought and without a proper reading of the topic.

It boggles my mind why would anyone be against this idea.
You want hard? You have a difficult option.
You want to experience the content but with less rewards? Sure thing.

Deepcuts.9740:

Reading some of the replies here made me realize, again, that people like to respond for the sake of responding to a topic, without any thought and without a proper reading of the topic.

It boggles my mind why would anyone be against this idea.
You want hard? You have a difficult option.
You want to experience the content but with less rewards? Sure thing.

Please read the responses from people who are against the idea before dismissing them all together.

Your statements have already been talked about 50x over.

Then, let this be the 52nd time this is said:
Yes, I read them and still cannot understand their judgement (if any involved)

People who are against the idea (it is just an idea after all) are just like people who were against ANet allowing people who made infusions with +5 stat to upgrade to a +7 for some reason known only by them. (just the latest example that comes to mind).

How can one be against something that cannot possibly affect him/her is beyond me.

None of the arguments against this apart from ‘possible waste of developer time and resources’ are particularly sound.

Fractals are undeniable proof that you can have multiple levels of difficulty in instanced content that do not affect each other at all.

Of course, we’re not likely to see scaled difficulty in raids. They’ve made a few concessions by offering relatively easy encounters (Bandit Trio and Escort), and this is reasonable enough, but that’s about it.

Deepcuts.9740:

How can one be against something that cannot possibly affect him/her is beyond me.

sigh

Because it can and will affect him/her.

Here’s a few just off the top of my head:

- Resources, regardless of their origin from either the raid team or some other PvE team, will impact production of all future content.
- Reward balance to avoid disfranchising raiders who had to fight hard for their encounters versus those seeking a lighter challenge. The incentive too good in easier modes? No one would try for a harder difficulty. Incentive too weak? No one would ever play easy mode raiding, and would rather farm Open World.
- Population for raiding divides, and depending on aforementioned previous point before, it’s entirely plausible that easy-raiding becomes the core method for farming raid only currency.

And probably a very important point that someone like you might not ultimately ever consider:

- Raiding is supposed to be an ultimate PvE challenge, as per its own premise. Having an easier difficulty defeats the whole purpose behind raiding’s existence.

I have very likely missed a few other points, but I believe I have competently countered your point objectively that adding an easier mode can’t do harm.

Deepcuts.9740:

How can one be against something that cannot possibly affect him/her is beyond me.

Because they’re looking at more than simple self-interest when they make their arguments?

Here is what I don’t understand,

How does adding a lower tier raid experience – that everyone understands completely is meant to be less challenging – somehow invalidate the prestige of higher tier raids?

If anything, it adds to it by letting people have a small glimpse of what it’s like – and would probably give Anet more license to make the higher tiers that much harder/more challenging in the future.

If you’re running a marathon, the people down the street running that 5K understand you are doing something much more prestigious than they are.

And, as always, it makes me wonder why you care what they think in the first place.

Blaeys.3102:

Here is what I don’t understand,

How does adding a lower tier raid experience – that everyone understands completely is meant to be less challenging – somehow invalidate the prestige of higher tier raids?

If anything, it adds to it by letting people have a small glimpse of what it’s like – and would probably give Anet more license to make the higher tiers that much harder/more challenging in the future.

If you’re running a marathon, the people down the street running that 5K understand you are doing something much more prestigious than they are.

And, as always, it makes me wonder why you care what they think in the first place.

Remember before the daily rework on fractal everybody would do only swamp?? You would spend a lot of time to do something like cliffside or mai trin high level and many times wouldnt form a group ( and 5 people its faster then 10 ) . So there you go your answer how easier mode CAN easily hurt the harder mode.

OnizukaBR.8537:

Blaeys.3102:

Here is what I don’t understand,

How does adding a lower tier raid experience – that everyone understands completely is meant to be less challenging – somehow invalidate the prestige of higher tier raids?

If anything, it adds to it by letting people have a small glimpse of what it’s like – and would probably give Anet more license to make the higher tiers that much harder/more challenging in the future.

If you’re running a marathon, the people down the street running that 5K understand you are doing something much more prestigious than they are.

And, as always, it makes me wonder why you care what they think in the first place.

Remember before the daily rework on fractal everybody would do only swamp?? You would spend a lot of time to do something like cliffside or mai trin high level and many times wouldnt form a group ( and 5 people its faster then 10 ) . So there you go your answer how easier mode CAN easily hurt the harder mode.

I know that is what I saw people saying on the forums, but believe it or not, there were plenty of people doing all of the fractals because they enjoyed them – moreso when they started adding them to the daily rotation (something they could easily do with raids – just make them weeklies instead of dailies). There are still plenty of people who play the game for the content as much as anything else.

Furthermore, your example comes back around to reward for time/effort spent – something that almost everyone agrees should be scaled along with any difficulty tiering. The more challenging versions of the raid should obviously offer better reward.

Sykper.6583:

sigh

Because it can and will affect him/her.

Here’s a few just off the top of my head:

- Resources, regardless of their origin from either the raid team or some other PvE team, will impact production of all future content.
- Reward balance to avoid disfranchising raiders who had to fight hard for their encounters versus those seeking a lighter challenge. The incentive too good in easier modes? No one would try for a harder difficulty. Incentive too weak? No one would ever play easy mode raiding, and would rather farm Open World.
- Population for raiding divides, and depending on aforementioned previous point before, it’s entirely plausible that easy-raiding becomes the core method for farming raid only currency.

And probably a very important point that someone like you might not ultimately ever consider:

- Raiding is supposed to be an ultimate PvE challenge, as per its own premise. Having an easier difficulty defeats the whole purpose behind raiding’s existence.

I have very likely missed a few other points, but I believe I have competently countered your point objectively that adding an easier mode can’t do harm.

So, let’s say, easier mode difficulty added, with:
1. Separate CD from normal raid
2. Fractal loot formula (aka 1/3 chance of unique valuable drops if compared with higher tier)
3. LI dropped only from wing endbosses
4. Easymode have shared magnetite shard cap with normal mode plus separate +50 cap specially for easymode.
5. Items for legendary collection (except 1 LI from each wing endboss) can be obtained only in normal mode. Raid vendors still need bosskills in normal mode to open their selling options.
6. Boss abilities stays same, but players getting buff +20% damage output, -20% damage received, +20% health, +20% healing output.

What do we have in that case?
1. Learning mode. Encounters are absolutely same, same timers, same abilities, same mechanics. Only difference is significant buff to players, which makes lots of difficult moments way easier.
2. Initiative for normal mode raiders to actually do raids with new players. Yes, loot is not that great, but it’s something, instead of current “haha, you did it already so nothing for you”.
3. Slightly faster LI acquisition for those who ain’t happy with the idea of 8 months raid farm for 1 legendary set.
4. Bridged gap. Yes, loot drops are way lower, but experience of raid encounter + small drops is way better than current situation when unexperienced players meeting already pretty high demands in LFG and scarcity of teaching runs.
5. Seriously growing normal raid population. That’s pretty simple, more people, more raiding groups, more possibilities, more experience, even more people, even more raiding groups, etc. Classic positive feedback loop.
6. After p.5 – more initiative for developers to make more raids. Growing popularity of content means that investments of development time gives more return and becoming more likely.

No need. Raid population is already increasing. My raid guild has increased its members by another 60+ players willing to learn raids over the past month. The best thing is they are sticking around for keeps. We have 12 active raid teams now. And thats just one guild.

Rednik.3809:

6. After p.5 – more initiative for developers to make more raids. Growing popularity of content means that investments of development time gives more return and becoming more likely.

That’s bad, though. Those resources come from other places in the game, especially areas which are better designed by their fundamental mechanics to service casual players; open world content and fractals.

Sarrs.4831:

That’s bad, though. Those resources come from other places in the game, especially areas which are better designed by their fundamental mechanics to service casual players; open world content and fractals.

Raids are repeatable content, and repeatable content is a staple that keeps any MMO alive. So more quality repeatable content is always good.

Rednik.3809:

Raids are repeatable content, and repeatable content is a staple that keeps any MMO alive. So more quality repeatable content is always good.

But extra difficulty modes are not quality repeatable content.

Raiders don’t want more difficulty levels to raid in. They want more raids.
Non-raiders don’t want watered down raids. They want non-raid content.

OnizukaBR.8537:

Blaeys.3102:

Here is what I don’t understand,

How does adding a lower tier raid experience – that everyone understands completely is meant to be less challenging – somehow invalidate the prestige of higher tier raids?

If anything, it adds to it by letting people have a small glimpse of what it’s like – and would probably give Anet more license to make the higher tiers that much harder/more challenging in the future.

If you’re running a marathon, the people down the street running that 5K understand you are doing something much more prestigious than they are.

And, as always, it makes me wonder why you care what they think in the first place.

Remember before the daily rework on fractal everybody would do only swamp?? You would spend a lot of time to do something like cliffside or mai trin high level and many times wouldnt form a group ( and 5 people its faster then 10 ) . So there you go your answer how easier mode CAN easily hurt the harder mode.

You would need to compare swamp with swamp, not swamp with cliffside. Existence of t1 swamp did not harm t3 swamps at all.

Sarrs.4831:

Non-raiders don’t want watered down raids. They want non-raid content.

That’s what you don’t get. Dungeon-level difficulty easy mode for casuals would be non-raid repeatable quality content.
Don’t get too stuck at the word “raid”.

Blaeys.3102:

I know that is what I saw people saying on the forums, but believe it or not, there were plenty of people doing all of the fractals because they enjoyed them – moreso when they started adding them to the daily rotation (something they could easily do with raids – just make them weeklies instead of dailies). There are still plenty of people who play the game for the content as much as anything else.

Nope, there weren’t. The lfg was empty for fractals other than swamp + several complaining threads here in the forums that players couldn’t find any group at all to play other fractals needed, for example to achieve level 100.

Rednik.3809:

So, let’s say, easier mode difficulty added, with:
1. Separate CD from normal raid
2. Fractal loot formula (aka 1/3 chance of unique valuable drops if compared with higher tier)
3. LI dropped only from wing endbosses
4. Easymode have shared magnetite shard cap with normal mode plus separate +50 cap specially for easymode.
5. Items for legendary collection (except 1 LI from each wing endboss) can be obtained only in normal mode. Raid vendors still need bosskills in normal mode to open their selling options.
6. Boss abilities stays same, but players getting buff +20% damage output, -20% damage received, +20% health, +20% healing output.

What do we have in that case?
1. Learning mode. Encounters are absolutely same, same timers, same abilities, same mechanics. Only difference is significant buff to players, which makes lots of difficult moments way easier.
2. Initiative for normal mode raiders to actually do raids with new players. Yes, loot is not that great, but it’s something, instead of current “haha, you did it already so nothing for you”.
3. Slightly faster LI acquisition for those who ain’t happy with the idea of 8 months raid farm for 1 legendary set.
4. Bridged gap. Yes, loot drops are way lower, but experience of raid encounter + small drops is way better than current situation when unexperienced players meeting already pretty high demands in LFG and scarcity of teaching runs.
5. Seriously growing normal raid population. That’s pretty simple, more people, more raiding groups, more possibilities, more experience, even more people, even more raiding groups, etc. Classic positive feedback loop.
6. After p.5 – more initiative for developers to make more raids. Growing popularity of content means that investments of development time gives more return and becoming more likely.

Sorry, as a dedicated raider I cannot accept your reward structure.
Only blues, greens and a rare for a single boss in easy mode + 4 magnetite shard for a successful boss kill resulting in 36 shards per week. That would be ok nothing more. And another condition: The raiding team won’t develop this mode, not even one of them. Raid developers should continue to develop new raids while devs of the LS/expansion team should work on easy mode.

Astralporing.1957:

That’s what you don’t get. Dungeon-level difficulty easy mode for casuals would be non-raid repeatable quality content.

that’s not an argument, that’s a contradiction
tackle the reasoning

Astralporing.1957:

Don’t get too stuck at the word “raid”.

if you don’t want people to get stuck on words, don’t use them
fwiw raids are 10-player instanced pve content, nothing more, nothing less

Sarrs.4831:

But extra difficulty modes are not quality repeatable content.

Raiders don’t want more difficulty levels to raid in. They want more raids.
Non-raiders don’t want watered down raids. They want non-raid content.

Almost 90%+ of players according gw2e did fractals at least once. It’s quite obvious that there is a LOT of people out there who want to raid but not raiding yet. Raid tiers will solve that problem and give new repeatable content to wide auditory.

Vinceman.4572:

Sorry, as a dedicated raider I cannot accept your reward structure.
Only blues, greens and a rare for a single boss in easy mode + 4 magnetite shard for a successful boss kill resulting in 36 shards per week. That would be ok nothing more.

Do you have any other propositions how to stimulate raiders to teach other players without restricting it by tying to rare teaching runs and guilds? Current system actually discourages from running with inexperienced people.

Vinceman.4572:

Sorry, as a dedicated raider I cannot accept your reward structure.
Only blues, greens and a rare for a single boss in easy mode + 4 magnetite shard for a successful boss kill resulting in 36 shards per week. That would be ok nothing more. And another condition: The raiding team won’t develop this mode, not even one of them. Raid developers should continue to develop new raids while devs of the LS/expansion team should work on easy mode.

And as a raider I think we should in addition to what Rednik said also allow ascended trinkets to be unlocked at the merchant and I still wouldn’t be sure that would be enough. Literally no new skin would be available this way. Also it wouldn’t make sense to put on devs who haven’t worked on raids before, the raid team would be the most sufficient on creating this. Keep in mind the raiders already got what they were promised with a full wing unlike those who are waiting for future LS updates

Rednik.3809:

Do you have any other propositions how to stimulate raiders to teach other players without restricting it by tying to rare teaching runs and guilds? Current system actually discourages from running with inexperienced people.

I think you totally underestimate the numbers of helping raiders after they have done their weekly clears. There are a lot! Funny thing is, training runs are often filled with exp players because no one else joining. The possibilities for non-raiders are out there – it’s more like I said several times before: Many people just don’t want to play raids.

On the other hand your question is aiming at the normal raid modes not at an easy mode. Yes, I would agree to increase the normal raid mode rewards. A few weeks after raid release the user “perry” already claimed that the rewards are too low. I’m pleased that you are mentioning this. It’s sad Anet won’t increase them – I believe they are ok with the reward structure – but it’s a good try to repeat it constantly, maybe some things will change in the future

Scipio.3204:

And as a raider I think we should also allow ascended trinkets to be unlocked at the merchant and I still wouldn’t be sure that would be enough.

Bloodstone Fen, you have played it?
It’s even harder to acquire trinkets in raids than on this map. They made a good supplement with it

Scipio.3204:

Also it wouldn’t make sense to put on devs who haven’t worked on raids before, the raid team would be the most sufficient on creating this. Keep in mind the raiders already got what they were promised with a full wing unlike those who are waiting for future LS updates.

Then give LS3/expansion devs one dev of the raid team to help out but the rest is unacceptable! I don’t agree with “we already got what was promised.”, because we could read on reddit the raid team is again working on good things and I seriously don’t want to wait for more raid content only because people want to enjoy LS3 or more bullkitten open world stuff. The teams are set, let them how they are and let the raid team work on the stuff they are good at – this is challenging content.

Everyday I do my daily rotation of T4 Fractals. I have all Fractal achievements, got the backpack. This would make me hardcore I guess.
I do T4s because the reward is much better, but I also do lower tiers to help out guildies, show them the mechanics or just have fun with friends without being worried about rewards.

If the topic would have been about Fractals, this should have put me in the camp: “NO LOWER TIERS FOR NOOBS” ?
Hell no! The more people get to experience the instances the better.
You are new to Fractals? Maybe try Try Mai Trin on a moderate to low difficulty (with less rewards and no achievements) and if you like it and you think you have what it takes, maybe when you get to level 100 Mai Trin you will have a chance to win because you know what to expect? And because Fractals is a team based content, not only you get to spank Mai Trin, but in the process, you help others in your party win.

All the reasons put forth against this topic lack any kind of common sense or logic.
In the end, this will be ANet’s decision so I R out.

Sarrs.4831:

Astralporing.1957:

That’s what you don’t get. Dungeon-level difficulty easy mode for casuals would be non-raid repeatable quality content.

that’s not an argument, that’s a contradiction

Contradiction of what? I see none.

Sarrs.4831:

Astralporing.1957:

Don’t get too stuck at the word “raid”.

if you don’t want people to get stuck on words, don’t use them
fwiw raids are 10-player instanced pve content, nothing more, nothing less

No, as seen by seeing people claim left and right that easy mode raids are a contradiction, they have much more meaning than that.

Not every 10-man is a raid. Not every raid is 10-man (well, in GW2 it is, at the moment anyway, but the meaning attached comes from other games, not GW franchise)

I suppose, to be precise, i could be saying “a 10-man instanced content with dungeon-level difficulty created by adjusting down raid mechanics” instead of “easy mode raids”, but it’s not very practical. And at the moment there doesn’t seem to be a better simple term to use that would carry the meaning i’d want to. “10-man dungeons” for example would not impart the meaning that they are supposed to be tuned down versions of a raid instances.

Unless you have a better name?

Vinceman.4572:

Bloodstone Fen, you have played it?
It’s even harder to acquire trinkets in raids than on this map. They made a good supplement with it

Then what is your issue with making the ones in raid accessible? You can only equip half your trinkets from bloodstone fen considering the ring is unique.

Vinceman.4572:

Then give LS3/expansion devs one dev of the raid team to help out but the rest is unacceptable! I don’t agree with “we already got what was promised.”, because we could read on reddit the raid team is again working on good things and I seriously don’t want to wait for more raid content only because people want to enjoy LS3 or more bullkitten open world stuff. The teams are set, let them how they are and let the raid team work on the stuff they are good at – this is challenging content.

This is my point. The raid team is good at working on challenging content, anything raid related work should be handled by them, since they have the most experience with it.

Also about six months back we could read it’s about one month to create a legendary weapon from concept to reality, yet you can see how it worked out. Either way, I wouldn’t expect a raid anytime soon, easy mode or not. People seem to forget the raid team also had the time before the expansion to create 3 wings.

Deepcuts.9740:

Everyday I do my daily rotation of T4 Fractals. I have all Fractal achievements, got the backpack. This would make me hardcore I guess.
I do T4s because the reward is much better, but I also do lower tiers to help out guildies, show them the mechanics or just have fun with friends without being worried about rewards.

If the topic would have been about Fractals, this should have put me in the camp: “NO LOWER TIERS FOR NOOBS” ?
Hell no! The more people get to experience the instances the better.
You are new to Fractals? Maybe try Try Mai Trin on a moderate to low difficulty (with less rewards and no achievements) and if you like it and you think you have what it takes, maybe when you get to level 100 Mai Trin you will have a chance to win because you know what to expect? And because Fractals is a team based content, not only you get to spank Mai Trin, but in the process, you help others in your party win.

All the reasons put forth against this topic lack any kind of common sense or logic.
In the end, this will be ANet’s decision so I R out.

The thing you don’t understand (still since what 12 pages now, man you are slow…) is that fractals are developed with scalable difficulty in mind. Players should naturally find the difficulty they are comfortable with and slowly but surely increase their skill to fit in higher levels (if they so chose/want to).
It’s the kitten design goal of fractals.

Raids on the other hand are designed to be hard, challenging content on a set difficulty you can’t just clear the first try. Focus lies far more on mechanics, class knowledge and teamplay than in fractals or dungeons.
They are not designed to be easy, or to cater to those who are unable to learn.
Raids are a huge success for their target audience and i still haven’t seen a single good argument why content designed for this target audience should now also cater to the exact opposite audience as well.
On another note it would stall development of future raid content, which i am absolutely against.

Vinceman.4572:

Then give LS3/expansion devs one dev of the raid team to help out but the rest is unacceptable! I don’t agree with “we already got what was promised.”, because we could read on reddit the raid team is again working on good things and I seriously don’t want to wait for more raid content only because people want to enjoy LS3 or more bullkitten open world stuff. The teams are set, let them how they are and let the raid team work on the stuff they are good at – this is challenging content.

This is my point. The raid team is good at working on challenging content, anything raid related work should be handled by them, since they have the most experience with it.

Also about six months back we could read it’s about one month to create a legendary weapon from concept to reality, yet you can see how it worked out. Either way, I wouldn’t expect a raid anytime soon, easy mode or not. People seem to forget the raid team also had the time before the expansion to create 3 wings.

Because easy mode “raids” are not challenging content?? Because it would stall further development of future raid wings (whenever they will be released doesnt matter)..because not every content in the game must be completeable by anyone?
there is no point in creating an easy mode for players that aren’t even the target audience for raids.
get this in your head finally

Scipio.3204:

Then what is your issue with making the ones in raid accessible? You can only equip half your trinkets from bloodstone fen considering the ring is unique.

With what do I have an issue? I think you haven’t understood what I was writing.
Backpiece, amulett + rings are 4 out of 6 since the rings aren’t unique (like the raid ones!).
So, only if you go for a perfect set you need 6 out of 6 viper’s, commander’s or whatever.
But I mention it right now before any objections come into place:
I have never ever seen a group rejecting a player that had the perfect required weapons, the perfect required armor and 4 perfect trinkets because he was missing the last 2 and had different ones instead.
These 2 are negligible but can easily bought after finishing Trio – one of the easiest encounter in raids (2nd easiest after escort imho).
Also I have never said to make them not accessible, I have nothing against an addition to Rakka in Bloodstone Fen and – as a repeat – have never said anything against such adding in my previous posts!
I was only referring to Rednik’s raid reward proposal: Blues, greens, one rare + 4 shard per boss and ofc able to use these shards. That would be nonsense if it was not possible, if that was the case you weren’t able to interpret.

Scipio.3204:

This is my point. The raid team is good at working on challenging content, anything raid related work should be handled by them, since they have the most experience with it.

An easy mode wouldn’t be challenging. All they have to do is handle the “copy” over to other devs with a little help here and there and the other team could tune the content down. Nothing specifically to do for the raid team as a whole.

Scipio.3204:

Also about six months back we could read it’s about one month to create a legendary weapon from concept to reality, yet you can see how it worked out. Either way, I wouldn’t expect a raid anytime soon, easy mode or not. People seem to forget the raid team also had the time before the expansion to create 3 wings.

I’m not saying anything different in my post. All that has to be assured is that the raid team should continue the work they are doing right now, not more, not less (which means no focus on easy content of any source at all).

@ Vinceman

I feel like it’s useless to argue with you, because you are just replying for the sake of replying. If you didn’t have any issue opening up raid accessory ascendeds then why did you point me towards bloodstone fen? And why did you tell Rednik “Only blues, greens and a rare for a single boss in easy mode + 4 magnetite shard for a successful boss kill resulting in 36 shards per week. That would be ok nothing more.” I would assume nothing more means nothing more, but I guess in your case not since you said “Also I have never said to make them not accessible”

Vinceman.4572:

I was only referring to Rednik’s raid reward proposal: Blues, greens, one rare + 4 shard per boss and ofc able to use these shards. That would be nonsense if it was not possible, if that was the case you weren’t able to interpret.

I assumed you knew you could spend magnetite shards without killing a single boss, if not, then my bad.

Also I guess you just quick checked wiki, but take a look at the ring ingame. Spoiler alert, it’s unique.

And regarding the tuning down of content, you shouldn’t assume like “all they have to do is just….” , it is a lot more complicated than that. Even Gaile came in once to stop making these kind of arguments. But in the end I don’t really care who does it, but if the living story team then be prepared they will be the ones also balancing the rewards, which you might not like.

Dear easy moders,

What “problem” are you trying to solve?

I see 12 pages of “discussion,” but I’m still unsure what the easy-moders want. It’s hard to focus the conversation when all I see is complaining. (That is, the conversion is not constructive).

Is the problem difficulty? Because, well, there’s plenty of easier content. Heck, we just got new fractals, story, and a meta map. Which is far superior than recycled content.

Is the problem rewards? Because the new map has the new ascended stats (I think making them unique is an oversight). And there are plenty of ways to get ascended stuff. And other legendaries are tied to particular content.

Is the problem lore? Because the raid story is not essential to the main story. And it’s available in completed instances.

Is the problem organization? Because you’ll run into similar problems with an easy mode.

And, finally, Why does this content need to be easy? Other hard content, like arah and aether path, is not easy.

I’ve tried several times to nail down what exactly the problem is, and what the easy moders want. But there’s only complaining. Not constructive, and leads me to think most are just anti-raid.

Scipio.3204:

I feel like it’s useless to argue with you, because you are just replying for the sake of replying. If you didn’t have any issue opening up raid accessory ascendeds then why did you point me towards bloodstone fen?

Your words, dude:

And as a raider I think we should in addition to what Rednik said also allow ascended trinkets to be unlocked at the merchant

Tyi: Trinkets are rings, amulets and accessories! So, trinkets were build in with amulets, rings and an addition with a backpiece which is so easy to obtain no backpiece could have been before. That’s what the audience wanted. And that was the reason I replied with pointing on Bloodstone Fen. Not hard to figure that out!
It’s not my mistake they “forgot” accessories – well, I don’t even think they forgot it, it’s more likely they will be added with future LS content.

Scipio.3204:

And why did you tell Rednik “Only blues, greens and a rare for a single boss in easy mode + 4 magnetite shard for a successful boss kill resulting in 36 shards per week. That would be ok nothing more.” I would assume nothing more means nothing more, but I guess in your case not since you said “Also I have never said to make them not accessible”

Nothing more means: No direct ascended drops! No mini drops! No exotic item drop! And of course No LI drop! —> All these are the more important ones to raiders tbh.
It is more than obvious if I concede shards to easy mode raiders that they are able to spend them at the vendors – otherwise we can also state No shards. Sorry that I have to mention that explicitly, I had the impression every smart person would draw the right conclusion.

Scipio.3204:

I assumed you knew you could spend magnetite shards without killing a single boss, if not, then my bad.

Had nothing to do with my statement!
I was not talking about armor or weapons because the only thing that was often discussed by the community was acquiring trinkets with HoT stats, s. above.

Scipio.3204:

Also I guess you just quick checked wiki, but take a look at the ring ingame. Spoiler alert, it’s unique.

Raid rings had that prefix too. Now, it has changed. We don’t know if this is intended or a bug. IF – and I don’t know if this prefix rly prevents you from using 2 of them on one char (I haven’t tested it), we have 3 trinkets with HoT stats outside of raids at the moment. Looks really like they will add next 3 ones – the other half – with the next episode. Or not?

Edit: Just had several guys talking to me in mapchat that you can use 2 of them after infusing/attuning! First problem solved – 4 out of 6!

Scipio.3204:

And regarding the tuning down of content, you shouldn’t assume like “all they have to do is just….” , it is a lot more complicated than that. Even Gaile came in once to stop making these kind of arguments. But in the end I don’t really care who does it, but if the living story team then be prepared they will be the ones also balancing the rewards, which you might not like.

While I had plenty of informatic courses at university in the past when I was studying I am of course aware that a change or an implementation of easy modes wouldn’t be easy. That’s why I’m against the participation of the raid team in developing such content. In addition it would prevent my friends, guild mates and me from having good content in the game. It’s obvious that we don’t want that.

Fortunately, there are only few people wanting this easy mode and I hardly believe that these few ones would shift Anet to such drastic changes. It’s all laying in the future but referring to past changes the group of opponents is way to small comparing to others that really had success with their wishes.

Absurdo.8309:

leads me to think most are just anti-raid.

Almost no one here is anti raid.

Just because people want to see something changed doesn’t mean they are against that thing.

As the question about what people want, I think that has been asked and answered a dozen times over -

- A way for people who do not spend the same time or conform to the meta to realistically have a chance at experiencing the content in a fun setting.

- A way for all players to experience the raid story (regardless of how slim that story is)

- Establish a stepping stone in terms of difficulty between fractals and the current raids.

- A return to the game’s philosophy of “this is my story,” in which there aren’t walls between the different PVE communities in terms of accessibility (and for the 100th time, no – Arah and Aetherpath are not the same thing as raids – as has been outlined dozens of times already)

I realize you disagree with all of these points, but that doesn’t mean there aren’t others who still see a need for this.

And, finally, again, I repeat what I said earlier -

How does adding a lower tier raid experience – that everyone understands completely is meant to be less challenging – somehow invalidate the prestige of higher tier raids?

I really cant understand why people are so opposed to this.

Vinceman.4572:

Fortunately, there are only few people wanting this easy mode and I hardly believe that these few ones would shift Anet to such drastic changes. It’s all laying in the future but referring to past changes the group of opponents is way to small comparing to others that really had success with their wishes.

I actually see the opposite being true, but I’m willing to concede that I am probably colored by my perspective. However, I think the same is true of you.

Reality is, neither of us has any idea how many people are for or against the idea of tiered difficulty raiding. I think time is better spent arguing the pros and cons of the concept rather than worrying over statistics we don’t have.

Blaeys.3102:

Absurdo.8309:

leads me to think most are just anti-raid.

Almost no one here is anti raid.

Just because people want to see something changed doesn’t mean they are against that thing.

As the question about what people want, I think that has been asked and answered a dozen times over -

- A way for people who do not spend the same time or conform to the meta to realistically have a chance at experiencing the content in a fun setting.

- A way for all players to experience the raid story (regardless of how slim that story is)

- Establish a stepping stone in terms of difficulty between fractals and the current raids.

- A return to the game’s philosophy of “this is my story,” in which there aren’t walls between the different PVE communities in terms of accessibility (and for the 100th time, no – Arah and Aetherpath are not the same thing as raids – as has been outlined dozens of times already)

I realize you disagree with all of these points, but that doesn’t mean there aren’t others who still see a need for this.

And, finally, again, I repeat what I said earlier -

How does adding a lower tier raid experience – that everyone understands completely is meant to be less challenging – somehow invalidate the prestige of higher tier raids?

I really cant understand why people are so opposed to this.

Vinceman.4572:

Fortunately, there are only few people wanting this easy mode and I hardly believe that these few ones would shift Anet to such drastic changes. It’s all laying in the future but referring to past changes the group of opponents is way to small comparing to others that really had success with their wishes.

I actually see the opposite being true, but I’m willing to concede that I am probably colored by my perspective. However, I think the same is true of you.

Reality is, neither of us has any idea how many people are for or against the idea of tiered difficulty raiding. I think time is better spent arguing the pros and cons of the concept rather than worrying over statistics we don’t have.

Re meta: You don’t need to use meta builds in raids. And there’s plenty of content where meta builds are not expected.

Re story: You can experience that right now by going into a completed instance. Heck, the one-liner that ties raids to the main story is in a completed instance.

Re stepping stone: High level fractals provide a stepping stone. Easier raid bosses, like escort, provide a stepping stone.

Re “this is my story”: I mean you can debate whether this content is as hard as raids (I think they were at release), but that doesn’t change that anet has put much more relevant story info behind that content.

Myself, along with several others, have already explained how an easy mode would directly harm raiders (there’s a post a couple above yours that does a good job). Here’s another summary:

1. It takes away resources either from new raids or new living world content. Put another way, it adds nothing for people who already raid or people that have no interest in raiding.
2. It splits the raiding playerbase, and provides less diversity of skill in raid groups
3. If the rewards are imbalanced, it may destroy regular raids.
4. If it also provides the rewards unique to raids, it may destroy regular mode and the achievement from beating regular mode.
5. If the rewards are balanced, or if there’s little reward, then there’s no staying power with easy mode — it would be a one and done, a waste of resources.
6. There will still be players who can’t beat easy mode

There are solutions to all your concerns that don’t involve easy mode raids. But I think you’re so fixated on a silver-bullet solution to problems (which may or may not exist) that it’s clouding your judgment. Heck, on the concern for spirit shards, your solution was easy mode raids, not the simple and obvious solution of a spirit shard track.

This bias, intentional or not, leads me to believe that many easy-moders are anti-raid.

Blaeys.3102:

I actually see the opposite being true, but I’m willing to concede that I am probably colored by my perspective. However, I think the same is true of you.

Reality is, neither of us has any idea how many people are for or against the idea of tiered difficulty raiding. I think time is better spent arguing the pros and cons of the concept rather than worrying over statistics we don’t have.

To be honest, you keep repeating that several times now but you are lacking any proof at all.
We all know this forum is no valid source because the majority here is populated with raiders But still, not even 10 voices supporting your thoughts & wishes here. Furthermore there’s also no substantial mass at reddit you can refer to.
I could understand rethinking the whole object if I would see many many players complaining loudly and vehemently (forums, reddit, elsewhere). But that is not the case.

Dominik.5162:

there is no point in creating an easy mode for players that aren’t even the target audience for raids.

In the same vein there was no point in creating raids for people that were not even the target audience for GW2.
Hint: expanding target audience is a thing. If it was okay in one case, it’s equally okay in another.

Astralporing.1957:

Dominik.5162:

there is no point in creating an easy mode for players that aren’t even the target audience for raids.

In the same vein there was no point in creating raids for people that were not even the target audience for GW2.
Hint: expanding target audience is a thing. If it was okay in one case, it’s equally okay in another.

Whats difference between dungeon and easy raid? None , so no point on expanding it, if they wanted easy raid they would make new dungeons

Astralporing.1957:

Hint: expanding target audience is a thing. If it was okay in one case, it’s equally okay in another.

By that logic, we need to get WvW devs to create WvW AI blobs that people can fight instead of other people. We need some of that Overwatch Bot AI for SPvP where you don’t actually have to fight other players.

Of course, all of this at the expense of production of new content for those players involved originally.

I really do think the arguments against are pretty thin.

And as for what people actually want out of raids, I would direct people back to the CDI when they asked people to list the top three things they would like to see from raiding in GW2. On the last few pages alone, the most requested features are accessibility and either scalability or multiple tiers. If you go back and read from the beginning of that thread (before Chris Whitesides actually laid out the planned parameters for raiding), you will find many more people asking for similar accessibility features.

On these subforums, I do think the community is split close to 50/50, with small contingents on all sides – namely me, Vinceman, Astralporing, Onizuka, Absurdo and one or two others – being very vocal. However, I also think that there is some bias in those numbers given this is the raiding subforum (and is, therefore, frequented by people who are currently actively raiding moreso than people who would be raiding if they were more accessible). This is made even more obvious when one of these posts starts in the general subforum or on reddit.

I see all these posts from people saying they don’t have the time or dedication to raid as it is now without an easier mode…

But honestly, the time and dedication being put into monitoring and writing all these posts is about on-par.

Absurdo.8309:

Re meta: You don’t need to use meta builds in raids. And there’s plenty of content where meta builds are not expected.

Re story: You can experience that right now by going into a completed instance. Heck, the one-liner that ties raids to the main story is in a completed instance.

Re stepping stone: High level fractals provide a stepping stone. Easier raid bosses, like escort, provide a stepping stone.

Re “this is my story”: I mean you can debate whether this content is as hard as raids (I think they were at release), but that doesn’t change that anet has put much more relevant story info behind that content.

Myself, along with several others, have already explained how an easy mode would directly harm raiders (there’s a post a couple above yours that does a good job). Here’s another summary:

1. It takes away resources either from new raids or new living world content. Put another way, it adds nothing for people who already raid or people that have no interest in raiding.
2. It splits the raiding playerbase, and provides less diversity of skill in raid groups
3. If the rewards are imbalanced, it may destroy regular raids.
4. If it also provides the rewards unique to raids, it may destroy regular mode and the achievement from beating regular mode.
5. If the rewards are balanced, or if there’s little reward, then there’s no staying power with easy mode — it would be a one and done, a waste of resources.
6. There will still be players who can’t beat easy mode

There are solutions to all your concerns that don’t involve easy mode raids. But I think you’re so fixated on a silver-bullet solution to problems (which may or may not exist) that it’s clouding your judgment. Heck, on the concern for spirit shards, your solution was easy mode raids, not the simple and obvious solution of a spirit shard track.

This bias, intentional or not, leads me to believe that many easy-moders are anti-raid.

1. It actually increases the chance that raids will get any development resources in future. Because, you know, there is just as much negative outlash as positive, if you take a look at resources with voting system, aka reddit. And Anet is not a charity company, so high management can make a decision to allocate development resources elsewhere, based on popularity. Like, if you remember, they did with fractals years ago, and fractals was WAY more popular PvE endgame content.
2. It splits playerbase and takes leechers and freeriders off normal mode. If people are ready to switch from normal to easier difficulty even with massively nerfed rewards, do you really think that they was active skilled raiders or something?
3. Anet is pretty good at balancing rewards in tiered content actually. See dungeons and fractals.
4. Lolwhat. It’s like saying that winning your local school championship and getting school reward devalues professional sport.
5. Small reward is still reward, plus putting this reward on separate CD from normal raids will give normal raiders initiative to play it with beginners for additional rewards if they want to. So beginners will get their small reward and normal raiders can get their big AND small reward. Win-win.
6. And there will be significantly more players raiding players at the same time, which is always good. Raiding playerbase will at least double in size, if reddit poll was true.

@ Vinceman

Not only you tried to discuss something you had no information about, you insisted on being right and spread misinformation even though you were told otherwise. That alone makes me question your credibility. After realising you are wrong , you turned to a questionable information soure (a.k.a. map chat), to prove me wrong. That information is partially right, you can equip two different Bloodstone Band if they are differently Augemented & Infused, but if both is Augemented & Infused you can’t equip both, which makes them inferior to other rings.

Vinceman.4572:

It is more than obvious if I concede shards to easy mode raiders that they are able to spend them at the vendors – otherwise we can also state No shards. Sorry that I have to mention that explicitly, I had the impression every smart person would draw the right conclusion.

I didn’t know you need a certain level of intelligence to decipher what you are trying to say, my bad. The way you worded this

Vinceman.4572:

I was only referring to Rednik’s raid reward proposal: Blues, greens, one rare + 4 shard per boss and ofc able to use these shards. That would be nonsense if it was not possible, if that was the case you weren’t able to interpret.

made me think you didn’t think about you can already spend Magnetite shard on any piece of equipment without unlocking anything at the raid merchants. Anyway since you are degrading yourself to doing personal insults , I’ll end my side of the discussion here, since I don’t want to derail the thread.

PS: I saw about a dozen thread requesting easy mode, yet I don’t remember any about asking for new raids. Do I think that means fewer people want a new raid wing than easy mode? Wouldn’t be an illogical assumption. Yet I don’t because it’s pointless. Anet already has the numbers, it is a waste of time arguing about those. But I believe if anet made a WvW Style poll : Easy mode raid vs New raid, you would be surprised by the results.

Scipio.3204:

That alone makes me question your credibility.

After commenting long enough here in this forum and playing together with several players from SC guilds I feel I am not in the need to prove my credibility for you.
Just tried to be helpful and the infused/attuning thing is helpful* for players that want to get into raids with a proper build with equivalent stats on both rings.

Scipio.3204:

Not only you tried to discuss something you had no information about, you insisted on being right and spread misinformation even though you were told otherwise.

You were insisting so hard on “mini” details causing troubles. I was only looking for solutions. And we have some. In addition it wasn’t only me posting thoughts about the rings. We still don’t know if they are intended to be unique or if it’s just a bug. The fact you can use attuned/infused ones together e.g. is a very strong sign the intention wasn’t there. I wouldn’t be surprised if they already “have a look into it”.

Scipio.3204:

That information is partially right, you can equip two different Bloodstone Band if they are differently Augemented & Infused, but if both is Augemented & Infused you can’t equip both, which makes them inferior to other rings.

Nothing to add here except this allows you to gear your raid char up. Again: nothing more, nothing less. That’s what players outside of raids were claiming. For someone who is going to take a step into raids this cirumstance isn’t a hurdle or anything bad. It’s only inferior for someone who is min/maxing and those people already have the things they need…from the raids. Period.

Scipio.3204:

made me think you didn’t think about you can already spend Magnetite shard on any piece of equipment without unlocking anything at the raid merchants.

Of course, everybody knows that. What a statement. But this vendor is just useless to the big majority of players. In case you are still haven’t understood: The things outside are way inferior to the ones inside of the raid and people weren’t complaining about this vendor. Seriously, nobody even cared/mentioned this specific vendor. They wanted to have HoT-stats trinkets + backpiece outside of raids – LS3 started to providing them. That was the main issue.

Scipio.3204:

I didn’t know you need a certain level of intelligence to decipher what you are trying to say, my bad.

You are the one being rude, stop turning my words.
For me it was obvious that if I give players shards INSIDE the raid as rewards after killing their easy mode boss, they will also be able to buy things INSIDE the raid. That’s simple presuming logical conclusions. Just ask next time if you have trouble to understand some points.

Scipio.3204:

Anyway since you are degrading yourself to doing personal insults , I’ll end my side of the discussion here, since I don’t want to derail the thread.

I don’t see any word which is insulting. The other way round is right, you are trying to provoke, not me.

Scipio.3204:

PS: I saw about a dozen thread requesting easy mode.

Proof? I haven’t seen them and I am reading since release of GW2 and commenting daily before HoT (and raids) was released.

The rest of your word: Pointless. You can believe what you want. We are still lacking a broad mass of players complaining about raids or inaccessibility that’s going to change Anet’s way into implementing an easy mode.

If I was rude or provoking, I apologize, it was not in my intention, however I only see this as another reason to stop the argument between us. Most likely we both know all of the arguments of both sides, we won’t convince the other.

Honestly I was against the idea of easy mode til not long ago, to be precise, til the recent reddit AMA. Two things came up that made me rethink my position:

1, The fact it takes anet 9 months to take an armor set, and a lot more to create a Legendary armor (as we can see). I was telling my friend who didn’t like raiding that don’t worry about it, most likely we’ll see legendary armors to be added to other game modes, you will be able to earn those. Well, now even if I was right that will come at least a year from now on, considering they start working on it right now . They didn’t even finish this yet. Even I found this unacceptable.

2, The things they said about the upcoming raid, two in particular. One thing is you will be able to complete the second collections, which is fine by itself…. but what took my attention is their plan is to future raids still dropping legendary insight.

Now I have two group of friends (for the matter of simplicity), those who raid and those who don’t. Most of those who raid only do it for legendary armor , and they are well over half of legendary insights required. Let’s say the new raid comes in 6 months. Even those who start now will be able to get enough of it. I already know about people planning to stop as soon as they reach 150 and they will have no reason to repeat the new raid after they completed the second collection, since the second raid won’t have an ultimate shiny to chase. This is why I’m in for easy mode , even if those of my friends who stop at 150 leave raiding altogether, I’ll be able to join those who had stayed out of the raiding scene til the implementation of easy mode, and finally they will also get a long term goal even if it takes 1 year to complete.

On your request of proof
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Raids-need-a-story-easy-mode
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Lets-meet-half-way-Raiders-Vs-Casuals
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Suggestion-Entry-Level-Raid
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Suggestion-Raid-Difficulty-Settings-Merged
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/4oaz3y/a_potential_implementation_of_easy_mode_raids_to/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/4amr01/no_to_nerfing_raids_no_to_easy_mode/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/46pgf8/old_raid_casual_mode/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/4rioou/different_raid_difficulties_would_alleviate_a/

Also there is the a top ten hated things about GW2 on reddit, raid is number #9 for several reasons listed in this thread
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/4rgy84/ten_things_we_hate_about_gw2_results_of_what_you/

As a veteran raider I’m personally against easy mode raids. I have spent hundreds of hours learning and practicing, getting better. I did it with my team. Together we’ve overcome every obstacle and it’s the feeling when you kill the boss we fight for. Yes the rewards are nice, but the feeling is priceless.

Now if they made an easy mode I would feel like it was all for naught. And I doubt that I’d be alone. The time and effort we’ve put in to achieve a boss kill would’ve been for naught, because some other person could kill it too with a finger in his nose.

Of course how could you understand when you haven’t experienced it? Let me put it like this: Legendary weapons are meant to be a symbol of an experienced player, his time and dedication to the game right? Well how would you feel if you’d have spent weeks saving up money and materials for a precursor, and then some other person would just get it dropped? Or if Anet made legendaries even easier to get? They would quickly lose their prestige and the players who spent hundreds of hours crafting them would feel cheated on right?

Same goes for raids If you want it easy, go to bloodstone fen to farm the Unbound Guardian and if you press 1 for long enough you’ll get enough rubies for same quality gear, it will just take longer than a raid clear.

And as many have said before I will repeat this because you’re too dense to get it. Raids aren’t meant to be easy. The time you’ve spent here on this thread you could be spending on searching for a non rep raid guild (literally dozens of them out there). You either change your attitude or forget raiding.

CokoladaSunka.1369:

Let me put it like this: Legendary weapons are meant to be a symbol of an experienced player, his time and dedication to the game right? Well how would you feel if you’d have spent weeks saving up money and materials for a precursor, and then some other person would just get it dropped?

This is something that happened to me, actually. And you know what? I was perfectly okay with it – it made that other person happy, and it didn’t take away anything from me.

CokoladaSunka.1369:

Or if Anet made legendaries even easier to get? They would quickly lose their prestige and the players who spent hundreds of hours crafting them would feel cheated on right?

The legendaries do not have the same worth now they had in the first year anyway, and their value shifts every time the value of materials changes. And i never cared about the prestige, only about looks.

So no, i don’t understand what you’re talking about at all.

CokoladaSunka.1369:

Same goes for raids If you want it easy, go to bloodstone fen to farm the Unbound Guardian and if you press 1 for long enough you’ll get enough rubies for same quality gear, it will just take longer than a raid clear.

Oh, i can get legendary armor for rubies now? Good to know…

CokoladaSunka.1369:

And as many have said before I will repeat this because you’re too dense to get it. Raids aren’t meant to be easy.

And i will repeat this, t you, because you don’t seem to understand as well – easy mode raids are not the same thing, and, if made, would be meant for a wider audience. You’re too stuck on your preconception of what Raid word means. If you’re so set against easy mode raids, just because you think that Raid can never be easy, call them “forgotten thicket explorables” or whatever. An “explorable” doesn’t need to be as difficult as Raid, after all, even if the only difference between one and another lies in tuned down mechanics.

CokoladaSunka.1369:

The time you’ve spent here on this thread you could be spending on searching for a non rep raid guild (literally dozens of them out there).

I could, but that’s the one part i actually dislike the most about raids. The need to replace your friends.

CokoladaSunka.1369:

You either change your attitude or forget raiding.

So i either won’t have fun, or i won’t have fun. I get this. Unfortunately for you, i don’t like that choice. That’s why i am arguing to change the current situation.

Raids are fine. 15char

Astralporing.1957:

CokoladaSunka.1369:

Let me put it like this: Legendary weapons are meant to be a symbol of an experienced player, his time and dedication to the game right? Well how would you feel if you’d have spent weeks saving up money and materials for a precursor, and then some other person would just get it dropped?

This is something that happened to me, actually. And you know what? I was perfectly okay with it – it made that other person happy, and it didn’t take away anything from me.

CokoladaSunka.1369:

Or if Anet made legendaries even easier to get? They would quickly lose their prestige and the players who spent hundreds of hours crafting them would feel cheated on right?

The legendaries do not have the same worth now they had in the first year anyway, and their value shifts every time the value of materials changes. And i never cared about the prestige, only about looks.

So no, i don’t understand what you’re talking about at all.

CokoladaSunka.1369:

Same goes for raids If you want it easy, go to bloodstone fen to farm the Unbound Guardian and if you press 1 for long enough you’ll get enough rubies for same quality gear, it will just take longer than a raid clear.

Oh, i can get legendary armor for rubies now? Good to know…

CokoladaSunka.1369:

And as many have said before I will repeat this because you’re too dense to get it. Raids aren’t meant to be easy.

And i will repeat this, t you, because you don’t seem to understand as well – easy mode raids are not the same thing, and, if made, would be meant for a wider audience. You’re too stuck on your preconception of what Raid word means. If you’re so set against easy mode raids, just because you think that Raid can never be easy, call them “forgotten thicket explorables” or whatever. An “explorable” doesn’t need to be as difficult as Raid, after all, even if the only difference between one and another lies in tuned down mechanics.

CokoladaSunka.1369:

The time you’ve spent here on this thread you could be spending on searching for a non rep raid guild (literally dozens of them out there).

I could, but that’s the one part i actually dislike the most about raids. The need to replace your friends.

CokoladaSunka.1369:

You either change your attitude or forget raiding.

So i either won’t have fun, or i won’t have fun. I get this. Unfortunately for you, i don’t like that choice. That’s why i am arguing to change the current situation.

Unfortunately for you, easier mode for raids wont be made. Fractal only have tiers because they were developed with it in mind from the start. Just like dungeons never had easy mode explorable mode ( Story mode dont count as its just like another path with different bosses etc). So like dungeons A-Net made easier bosses, even without timers for those that find Sloth for example too difficult. Then you have Scort ( wing 3 first boss ), if even that is too hard for you i’m sorry, you will never raid.
A-Net knows that you cant please everyone, and raids was the best receive content for its target audience by far, so they wont change that. So yeah you can still complain and dont get anything, or you can try to find things that you enjoy in the game, raids are not one of that and its fine.

OnizukaBR.8537:

Unfortunately for you, easier mode for raids wont be made. Fractal only have tiers because they were developed with it in mind from the start. Just like dungeons never had easy mode explorable mode ( Story mode dont count as its just like another path with different bosses etc). So like dungeons A-Net made easier bosses, even without timers for those that find Sloth for example too difficult. Then you have Scort ( wing 3 first boss ), if even that is too hard for you i’m sorry, you will never raid.
A-Net knows that you cant please everyone, and raids was the best receive content for its target audience by far, so they wont change that. So yeah you can still complain and dont get anything, or you can try to find things that you enjoy in the game, raids are not one of that and its fine.

ArenaNet has a solid history of listening to ALL players and adapting systems where necessary. Just look at WvW, living story between seasons one and two, the “new player experience” change,.

The audience for raid is PVE players who enjoy grouping with friends and playing in a mid sized instance – and with that in mind, raids were most definitely not the best received content; in fact, they are probably way down the list behind missions, fractals, new maps, etc.

We’ve seen one raid. Logic dictates that they are looking at how they can improve them – and like it or not, “improve” probably means looking at how they can get more players involved in them.

I don’t think anyone other than ANet can predict how raids will evolve – and there are those among their target audience who are not thrilled with how they are now. I think changes to raids will make it into the game – and, of course, I really hope those changes directly address the issue of accessibility.

And, as always, remember that almost no one is asking them to remove the experience we have now or detract from it in any way.