Guild Wars 2

There will always be elitists, no matter what Anet does. Afraid it is a question of learning to deal with it and find other ways to get groups.

My guild have been helping members to level in AC and we have made some nice casual runs of CM, which went really well.

So yeah maybe find a guild suitable for your needs? Or as others said specify your lfg, though you will likely get to wait longer.

There are people willing to help out in the open pve too, trust me. Even if they are spread out far and wide.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

How is it helpful in any way to take the approach “why should a veteran waste their time”? How does help the people that want to learn at all?

I could keep going if you so choose…

We have a dungeon mentor thread and guild dedicated to helping people. We are those scummy elitists you like to defame.

I’m sorry. But if I’m not teaching one of the students who took the time to reach out and ask for help, I’m going to be looking to running a nice run without teaching a random noob who thinks it’s okay. The game has been around for too long to expect everyone to be learning and for everyone who knows to be teaching. We are willing to pass on our knowledge. But not to people who will not ask for it, but who demand it.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

[snip].

A cleric [class] is not contributing more damage than a berserker [class] that dies early on. It may surprise you but a meta guardian whirling wrath on Magecrusher while capping out on buffs and vulnerability is the equivalent to five cleric guardians doing the same thing. So basically if we take a fight like Lupicus, the zerker player can faceplant at the end of phase 1 (so basically they get grubbed, have no stability then get swiped or AOE’d while knocked down, this isn’t completely uncommon in pugs), and if we assume almost full DPS uptime for both players, the cleric player has to keep wailing on Lupicus consistently for the entire fight to equal the DPS output of the berserker who died at phase transition, which is around 75-80% of Lupicus’ HP.

Assuming a player who doesn’t run berserker is bad also is a fairly safe assumption since from my own perspective it demonstrates one or more of the following:

1. Wants to roleplay a healer or tank (not necessarily bad, just refuses to use berserker gear)
2. Doesn’t understand the concept of active damage mitigation (bad)
3. Doesn’t understand the sheer strength of direct damage so as opposed to condition damage (bad, excluding fringe circumstances, e.g. dredge fractal at level 79)

Point one links in to point two as well, they may feel they’re helping their team by healing whereas an aegis, protection or blind could do a lot more (just throwing these out as examples).

Judging on AP is pretty stupid though, at around 5,000 AP I had taken part in two dungeon world records and was able to solo Lupicus, while I’ve played with pretty high AP players who are just plain terrible. To offer an example that isn’t me, I did Arah p4 with a friend months ago and we had (I think) a 1.5k AP mesmer. And I tell you what, they were amazing, almost flawless besides a few uses of greatsword which is no bueno. And it wasn’t a euro player on NA either.

The problem I feel with the GW2 community in regards to dungeons is that there are a lot of tryhards (just look at things like “heavies only”) who are to be honest, plain terrible and have probably never left COF p1, and aren’t particularly that friendly. If you take a look at the dungeon mentor guild in the dungeon subforum, a number of the meta/arah mentors there are some of the most elite players I have played with (I was a meta mentor for a little while before stepping down from it … too many requests), but the thing is – when you reach that level of skill you don’t have to take things seriously anymore. I can solo Lupicus in the dead of morning while half asleep, and I know that looking for pugs on the LFG I’m not going to find people of that calibre, so it’s best to just shrug it off when you pug and get average players since that’s just how your average GW2 player is, and the crack elite are like the 0.2% minority. But the core of veterans on this game are actually very friendly and willing to teach, and we’re all pretty easy going on voice comms (we’d be booted from our guilds if we weren’t anyway, lel).

Nevertheless, teaching people is an act of charity. I don’t charge people. When I join Arah groups at Lupicus and solo him down, I don’t charge. I ask if they want me to drop to invite a friend in (though to be honest they always ask me to stay) because I’ve done Arah a billion times and they may have a friend who wanted the path instead. The problem is that teaching runs properly takes a bit longer than just blitzing it, and I’m not a fan of just soloing everything if my students fail a certain point, and even though it’s satisfying when you get to the end and you’ve taught a bunch of people, it takes it out of you.

tl;dr … most “experienced only” players are bad, the actual elites are easy going and actually skillful and willing to teach, but people need to be willing to take and receive – a cleric dealing 20% of the damage of a berserker player is a bit of an issue and people should at least partially be willing to accomodate to the needs of their party by slotting out some of that defensive gear for maybe even just knights.

This is a new issue.

Well you could always start the group yourself, and start the dungeon. That way if those type of people happen to get in your party and they try to kick you, they’ll lose whatever current progress you made in the dungeon (since kicking dungeon started kicks everyone out). Or just keep trying. In all the pug groups (all I ever do since I don’t have a normal guild) I don’t think I’ve ever seen that kind of behavior. As others have said, just don’t try to join any of the groups that say level 80s only/zerkers only, that way you don’t have to worry about being kicked.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

How is it helpful in any way to take the approach “why should a veteran waste their time”? How does help the people that want to learn at all?

I could keep going if you so choose…

We have a dungeon mentor thread and guild dedicated to helping people. We are those scummy elitists you like to defame.

I’m sorry. But if I’m not teaching one of the students who took the time to reach out and ask for help, I’m going to be looking to running a nice run without teaching a random noob who thinks it’s okay. The game has been around for too long to expect everyone to be learning and for everyone who knows to be teaching. We are willing to pass on our knowledge. But not to people who will not ask for it, but who demand it.

I’m not saying everyone that is a vet should be teaching either. However if you take the stance ‘well I cant be bothered’ then you are part of the issue. I mean, how hard is it to answer a question in map chat while you wait, for example? And I’m not talking shouting ‘go check the wiki you noob.’

It’s all well and good to inform people that there is a wiki, that there are forum threads they could seek, etc. Some people honestly don’t know. However, it doesn’t hurt to share the knowledge if you have a moment and can do so. If you don’t have a moment, for example, you’re heading into a speed clear, that’s fine.

Geez, I’m not asking you to be saints. I’m just asking for some people to be less kitteny. Is that really so much to ask? That we have some tolerance and respect for other players, new or otherwise?

I’ve never seen someone ask a question in map and have people just berate them to check the wiki. On my server, there is always at least one person, but usually several, willing to help. I answer questions all the time. What I don’t do, is let people who either a. I don’t like or b. Who don’t want to try or learn, into my dungeon runs. A lot of these noobs are not all innocent. They want to be carried in some cases. And I refuse.

> Posts on LFG
> “lfm path x, anybody welcome”
> Fills up in seconds.

2hard4casuals.

You don’t have to join exp speed clear parties, you do know that?

I barelly do pve in this game but when im droppped alone in a dungeon becouse i dont how to exploit the dungeons tells me how the game really works.

Flissy.4093:

> Posts on LFG
> “lfm path x, anybody welcome”
> Fills up in seconds.

2hard4casuals.

Why the silly, inappropriate insult? Is it too hard to be civil for you?

I love making groups for casual runs. Everyone is always helpful and fun. Whether we die or not, we always learn and have fun along the way.

The funny thing is when I always get one speed runner who instantly joins without reading my group description. When they get mad at someone who dies, I tell them to either be nice or be kicked. They usually start behaving after that.

Unfortunately, the main problem is this: to date, there is a huge gap between the levels of the players are the elite veteran and there are novices. This gap was filled by the guild gw1 because the veteran was offering teaching at the novice and the latter in exchange for the service offered inside. Lfg and multi guild gw2 mode allow you to play casual gamer with maximum freedom and this collaboration there is almost no more. Result: everyone makes for themselves and nothing else.

hendo.1940:

A cleric [class] is not contributing more damage than a berserker [class] that dies early on. It may surprise you but a meta guardian whirling wrath on Magecrusher while capping out on buffs and vulnerability is the equivalent to five cleric guardians doing the same thing. So basically if we take a fight like Lupicus, the zerker player can faceplant at the end of phase 1 (so basically they get grubbed, have no stability then get swiped or AOE’d while knocked down, this isn’t completely uncommon in pugs), and if we assume almost full DPS uptime for both players, the cleric player has to keep wailing on Lupicus consistently for the entire fight to equal the DPS output of the berserker who died at phase transition, which is around 75-80% of Lupicus’ HP.

I did use Valk as my example. It, or sin should come close to zerk damage based on math. Yes, zerk is the top dps gear, I get that.

Assuming a player who doesn’t run berserker is bad also is a fairly safe assumption
-snip-

You know what they say about assumptions, but hey, judge the book by it’s cover more. So the people that have run the dungeons naked must simply be terrible, correct? They weren’t wearing zerker gear…. /sarcasm

I can understand people wanting to do dungeons in the most efficient, fastest way possible. That’s how they like to do it. Fine. Not everyone plays that way. To each their own. I highly doubt the OP was trying to join a ‘zerker only, must have 10k AP, speed clear must be melee’ group when attempting to dungeon with his girlfriend. Too many groups are simply marked ‘Story’ or ‘Px’ and that’s probably what caused his issue. Lack of clear communication on the lfg tool.

Judging on AP is pretty stupid though -snip-

Judging a book by its cover is never a wise thing.

The problem I feel with the GW2 community in regards to dungeons is that there are a lot of tryhards (just look at things like “heavies only”) who are to be honest, plain terrible and have probably never left COF p1, and aren’t particularly that friendly. If you take a look at the dungeon mentor guild in the dungeon subforum, a number of the meta/arah mentors there are some of the most elite players I have played with (I was a meta mentor for a little while before stepping down from it … too many requests), but the thing is – when you reach that level of skill you don’t have to take things seriously anymore. I can solo Lupicus in the dead of morning while half asleep, and I know that looking for pugs on the LFG I’m not going to find people of that calibre, so it’s best to just shrug it off when you pug and get average players since that’s just how your average GW2 player is, and the crack elite are like the 0.2% minority. But the core of veterans on this game are actually very friendly and willing to teach, and we’re all pretty easy going on voice comms (we’d be booted from our guilds if we weren’t anyway, lel).

Ugh head hurts now.

You know I never once said all “elitists” were bad players, or even bad people. Yes, like many I tend to use the term derogatorily because the more vocal portion of the group tend to be a bunch of kittens. There are also many that claim the title that, like you point out, just plain suck.

-snip- people should at least partially be willing to accomodate to the needs of their party by slotting out some of that defensive gear for maybe even just knights.

I have found that a lot of people are quite receptive if they are treated respectfully and not simply like trash.

I have to sympathise with the OP on this issue. I’ve come across this many times even at the beginning of the game because people will always look to get a quicker run done and along the way, exploit whatever they can.

According to Vol’s ‘metrics’ on acceptance in a dungeon party, I’d be in his 5% as well. Even though I just passed 12.5k AP’s, I think I’ve done maybe half of the total dungeon content. I don’t like people leaving others out of a party because they’re not like them or don’t play the same way. It creates another disparity in the game and from what I’ve seen, it’s turned into a gaping rift.

The only way I’ll do dungeons is with other players that I know can help me through with them, and we can function as a party instead of “I’ll lead, you follow and don’t agro anything along the way”… for someone doing a dungeon for the first time that has the makings of fail written all over it. If you have a supportive party then you should be set. But if you wing it with some people (pug’s) who want a speed run and gear check, I’m afraid you’re out in the cold. Sometimes, and more often nowadays, it’s the latter that seems to happen.

I don’t know of that many people who do dungeon runs ‘for fun’, and thus for the reasons I’ve stated above, I tend to keep clear of those dungeons until I can find someone with a spare party slot who will be accepting of a new player’s faults.

Val, why not join Dungeon Mentors?

why do you think i simply ignore both dungeons and fractures, because of all the elitists.
i would love to do a dungeon and simply take as long as it takes, i am playing a game to enjoy my self not to rush…..it’s not as if i need to be on time or anything…

Who do they think they are? People who want to play their way.. just as you do.

Whilst I’ve seen low levels be kicked before (which I don’t agree with unless the party was advertised as 80 only.. which is perfectly within any group’s rights), I’ve never seen a person kicked for low AP. It’s really simple: don’t join those sorts of groups. Start your own lfg saying anyone welcome, not a speed run. Find a guild.

I just don’t find your complaint to be constructive at all. Honestly you’re sort of just as bad and on the complete opposite side of those you are complaining about (seriously.. you’ve stooped to name calling.) There are some people who just want to run dungeons as fast as they can. Why should they have to help new people all the time and be unable to play how they want? Best to let people who want to speed through a dungeon do so, whilst you find more easy going people like yourself to run with.

Some of us don’t have 3 hours to waste in a dungeon because we have limited playtime or we want to do other things in game, so it pays to be efficient. I don’t need to stop and smell the roses if it’s my 20th time in a dungeon. How elitist of me.

Wall of text below this line

Whenever I see the term elitist being used to describe the dungeon forum regulars, I get rather amused (and somewhat saddened). The term ‘elitist’ is generally used pejoratively to describe somebody who looks down on those who are less skilled than them, and refuse to help said less skilled people achieve a higher skill level. My personal experience with them indicates otherwise. Let me try my best to describe someone that my fellow regulars can easily match the description to.

This person has been permanently banned twice from the forums for being excessively rude (however funny it gets). His posts can sometimes be highly condescending, but in his defense, he was doing so to people who were being obtuse. Having talked to him myself though, I’ve found him to be genuinely helpful and a nice person, and he has on multiple occasions offered to practice Arah duos/trios with me. What am I hoping to describe with this example? That not all people you call elitists are what you think they are.

They seem unwelcoming at first, but ponder over the state of the dungeon forum slowly – it’s been neglected for a very long time now, and the regulars have grown rather weary of having to deal with the same old nonsense. Sometimes we get threads that genuinely ask for help, and we do offer advice accordingly, but most of the time we tend to get narrow minded people who just can’t accept that we, the ‘elitists’, are actually abiding by the mantra that they chant – I PLAY HOW I WANT YOU FILTHY ELITIST! And that by coming into the dungeon forum to tell us for the thousandth time that stacking and skipping trash mobs are exploits, they are infringing on our freedom to play how we want, and at the same time displaying a woefully inaccurate (if not low) understanding of how the game works.

I’m not an articulate person, and I find joy in trolling dumb people, as my post history indicates. I strongly distrust pugs, and it usually takes me at least 20 minutes to decide whether I really want to join pugs or not because I perceive them to be unpredictable and completely unreliable. But does that make me an elitist? I don’t think so. There are too many circumstances in effect to even describe, but let me say that I truly do enjoy helping those in need more than I like to troll bigots. I simply don’t get enough requests for help to be noticed as a helpful person.

Two cents’ worth of what I think.

it’s actually human nature, when there is an overwhelming negativity it’s hard to see the positive part of something.
in this case, there are so many elitists that it’s hard to find the small group that doesn’t care how you are and how slow you want to play.
it’s a bit like the sheep theory, when there are 200 white sheep and 3 black sheep you wonder why they are a different color, they are the same and simply want to be left alone but it’s hard because they simply act differently.

humans are like sheep, only a select few are lone wolfs and for some reason they become shunned by the sheep horde.

Only saw this thread cause Colesy linked it elsewhere.

@ OP: It’s your responsibility to do your own research before actually doing dungeons. The resources are out there: meta guides, speedrun videos, a mentor guild. Read those guides to get yourself in the right spec. Watch those vids so you know what to do. Finally, contact a meta mentor for some practice (but we expect you to have already read the guides and watched the vids. At least, I expect you to have).

It’s not our job to carry you through a dungeon because you were too lazy/stupid to do your own research beforehand. Some great players I know only recently bought the game, they did their homework before stepping foot into dungeons, and they speedrun things with their sub-1k AP better than most 10k+ AP players.

If you have trouble lvl’ing a toon up, find someone who can lend you gold to craft to 80. If you have trouble getting into the meta spec because you can’t afford zerk, find someone who can lend you gold to buy it. I’ve lent hundreds of gold to friends for lvl’ing and gear, and within a week they’re speedrunning dungeons for gold to pay me back. But that’s all the outside help you need – just some gold on a short-term loan to get started. After that, it’s up to you to get into meta, learn the dungeons, and start speedclearing for cash.

I did use Valk as my example. It, or sin should come close to zerk damage based on math. Yes, zerk is the top dps gear, I get that.

With valk, even though you’re stacking crit damage, you have basically zero precision besides base and traiting which means you’re not really doing that much DPS since you’re not getting crits. You might as well PVT, at least that way you can stack an extra stat (toughness) that you can use reliably rather than hoping every now and then you get some crit.

Assassin is a lot closer in DPS, though it just has power and precision swapped as primary and secondary stats so that’s perfectly understandable.

You know what they say about assumptions, but hey, judge the book by it’s cover more. So the people that have run the dungeons naked must simply be terrible, correct? They weren’t wearing zerker gear…. /sarcasm

The only people who have run dungeons naked is either people doing it for a laugh or to prove that a certain type of gear (99% of times, berserker) isn’t required for clearing content. When people complained about TA F/U being too hard, people did it naked to just show how simple it is. NoTrigger has done a naked Lupicus solo too. Doing content naked is more a demonstration of skill and you mentioning that has absolutely nothing to do with the three points I’ve mentioned, so stop with the strawman. I’m not being condescending or rude so I don’t see why you can’t extend me the same courtesy.

I can understand people wanting to do dungeons in the most efficient, fastest way possible. That’s how they like to do it. Fine. Not everyone plays that way. To each their own. I highly doubt the OP was trying to join a ‘zerker only, must have 10k AP, speed clear must be melee’ group when attempting to dungeon with his girlfriend. Too many groups are simply marked ‘Story’ or ‘Px’ and that’s probably what caused his issue. Lack of clear communication on the lfg tool.

A little while ago I wrote on the lfg quite explicitly:

“Zerk + scholar runes only, experienced only, full clear”.

I got someone with rampager gear and scholar runes. I got a mesmer with eagle runes. I got a warrior with baelfire runes. The obligatory mesmer with their traveler rune set. the obligatory warrior with ruby orbs. I had to tell them all to leave. So it’s not entirely the LFG’s fault, there are people who literally don’t even read the LFGs, so it would (although possibly wrong) be a fairly reasonable assumption for me to make that the OP could have even joined a group without fully understanding the description. If they joined something which just said something like “lfm p2”, entered and then got gear checked, then sure, the LFG didn’t specify it (they should have) but at that point they can just say well okay, I don’t fit your criteria I’ll drop party.

Ugh head hurts now.
You know I never once said all “elitists” were bad players, or even bad people. Yes, like many I tend to use the term derogatorily because the more vocal portion of the group tend to be a bunch of kittens. There are also many that claim the title that, like you point out, just plain suck.

What I’ve found while reading these forums is that people who simply argue a different viewpoint are branded elitists. It’s unacceptable and the moderation should really do something about it. It’s at the point where people don’t even use the word for it’s actual meaning, it’s just flat out used as an insult. Players who are part of elite dungeon guilds are of course elitist since the guilds themselves are exclusive by their nature, but hammering the word in to peoples heads over and over again, it just gets tedious to read. That’s not to say they’re entirely in the right when they retaliate by referring to players as casuals/bads/baddies/etc., but it’s an extremely predictable reaction when you get abuse hurled at you over and over again and the other side refuses to engage in rational debate.

I have found that a lot of people are quite receptive if they are treated respectfully and not simply like trash.

People are hostile on the forum because they’re sick of arguing with brick walls. If everyone wasn’t so insistent on saying “play how you want” (which for the record they purposely take out of context – it’s referring to being able to play dps, support and control roles no matter what class you are – which is correct, not to being able to sneak in to “speed run” groups with a non-dps spec) there wouldn’t be such an acidic atmosphere rampant on the forum.

Anierna.6918:

Only saw this thread cause Colesy linked it elsewhere.

@ OP: It’s your responsibility to do your own research before actually doing dungeons. The resources are out there: meta guides, speedrun videos, a mentor guild. Read those guides to get yourself in the right spec. Watch those vids so you know what to do. Finally, contact a meta mentor for some practice (but we expect you to have already read the guides and watched the vids. At least, I expect you to have).

It’s not our job to carry you through a dungeon because you were too lazy/stupid to do your own research beforehand. Some great players I know only recently bought the game, they did their homework before stepping foot into dungeons, and they speedrun things with their sub-1k AP better than most 10k+ AP players.

If you have trouble lvl’ing a toon up, find someone who can lend you gold to craft to 80. If you have trouble getting into the meta spec because you can’t afford zerk, find someone who can lend you gold to buy it. I’ve lent hundreds of gold to friends for lvl’ing and gear, and within a week they’re speedrunning dungeons for gold to pay me back. But that’s all the outside help you need – just some gold on a short-term loan to get started. After that, it’s up to you to get into meta, learn the dungeons, and start speedclearing for cash.

spoken like a true elitist, we have to change so we get to your way of playing a game.
every thought about players who like to enjoy the game instead of speed cleaning everything or is that to much of a shock to you?

I will put it very simply.

When I purchased the game for box price – I purchased it alone.

I purchased it with disposable income which I earned.

No where am I obligated to help anyone or do anything of the sort to improve another players experience. The only experience I am interested in is my own. That may sound harsh but it is the reality.

People looking or complaining about the lack of “help” are simply lazy.

Between all the videos , web sites and guides let alone all the other resources on the web there is absolutely no person in this game with a little effort that should not be familiar with any particular content they are interested in doing.

So when joining a group instead of having no clue what you are doing – if you actually took the time to do a little research you would be able to fit into groups with little to no problems.

This is nothing more then the by – product of an entitlement generation.

In summary you are not entitled to my help and I will not give it unless I decide – Not you.

hendo.1940:

A little while ago I wrote on the lfg quite explicitly:

“Zerk + scholar runes only, experienced only, full clear”.

I got someone with rampager gear and scholar runes. I got a mesmer with eagle runes. I got a warrior with baelfire runes. The obligatory mesmer with their traveler rune set. the obligatory warrior with ruby orbs. I had to tell them all to leave. So it’s not entirely the LFG’s fault, there are people who literally don’t even read the LFGs, so it would (although possibly wrong) be a fairly reasonable assumption for me to make that the OP could have even joined a group without fully understanding the description. If they joined something which just said something like “lfm p2”, entered and then got gear checked, then sure, the LFG didn’t specify it (they should have) but at that point they can just say well okay, I don’t fit your criteria I’ll drop party.

Pugs are pugs. They will never read the LFG, you will always get people who don’t pay attention and no amount of irritation will change that. I have a friend who posted “LFG beginner’s run, no skipping” and then got a warrior who berated the entire group for not stacking in the right place and not skipping trash mobs.

That’s the nature of random selection in a LFG group. Which is why I think it’s useless to argue about it and pointless to get upset about it.

How about this Sorudo.

Join the dungeon mentor guild, or just contact what we call a “general mentor” and they will teach you dungeon basics. Happily. Without payment. Be ready to learn bosses. Be ready to put effort in, and you will get a group of “elitists” like myself trying to help you. And no, I don’t care what your build is, but that’s because I make my own groups, and I don’t expect to join a meta run on my half zerk ele. I expect to make my own groups, I expect to answer questions people ask, but what I don’t expect is to run through a dungeon carrying a group because none of them want to ask questions.

That’s the truth. That’s how I feel. I don’t see why you’re so against finding help.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

How about this Sorudo.

Join the dungeon mentor guild, or just contact what we call a “general mentor” and they will teach you dungeon basics. Happily. Without payment. Be ready to learn bosses. Be ready to put effort in, and you will get a group of “elitists” like myself trying to help you. And no, I don’t care what your build is, but that’s because I make my own groups, and I don’t expect to join a meta run on my half zerk ele. I expect to make my own groups, I expect to answer questions people ask, but what I don’t expect is to run through a dungeon carrying a group because none of them want to ask questions.

That’s the truth. That’s how I feel. I don’t see why you’re so against finding help.

Or he could actually put forth some effort and go to youtube or dulfy and either watch or read how certain content is done.

Problem solved.

But, Why would anyone waste time doing that….?

hendo.1940:

—
A little while ago I wrote on the lfg quite explicitly:

“Zerk + scholar runes only, experienced only, full clear”.

—
the obligatory warrior with ruby orbs. I had to tell them all to leave.
—

Do you also gearcheck for ascended?

I’ve had good PUG’s, I’ve had bad PUG’s, I have had PUG’s who were so bad we could not clear certain dungeon paths because they simply would not listen (I honestly think they may not have spoken English because no matter how many times I kept typing instructions, they never replied or did what I typed).

I PUG dungeons and Fractals almost exclusively since none of my friends enjoy doing them. If I notice the group I am with not doing well…or making huge mistakes, I will immediately stop the dungeon run and start explaining tactics to people….ask their builds…suggest new ones for them to try…basically attempt to get the “bad” players to not be bad.

I have friends who would be in the “bad player” category that have taken me months to convince to try different things. I actually went through and “mastered” several other classes so that I could in turn teach friends how to play their “mains”. Am I truly a master at those classes? Nope, not even close…but with one friend I was finally able to get him to triple his damage output with a few simple changes…and he was amazed at how much faster dungeon runs go now…and even regular PVE content….and I think the server as a whole is better for it.

Each individual you can teach…is one more individual that can help the whole.

Why do you expect level 80 players to carry you to lvl 80?
Get active, start a party and announce it in LFG. People usually join fast and lvl 80ies (me included) might join you as well. Nobody can complain then, after all they knew what they would get when they joined you.

Leveling to 80 is really not that big of a grind anyway, even without dungeons. Level in different zones rather than sticking to one, get the different skill points and waypoints and do hearts you come across, especially those that can be completed by doing an event. That way you get much more XP.

You know, I just thought of something else someone has done with me before in a PUG. They talked to me in the begining and asked if at the end we could hold the final cut-scene so they could grab their low-level guy for leveling purposes.

I had no problem with that…and we did this for the guy. A lot of the time, its simply about talking…like if someone tells me in the beginning of a dungeon run that they have no clue what they are doing…I much prefer that to the guy who says he is a “pro” but then screws everything up making us all wipe several times.

Let me tell you how things are from my perspective: I get only a few hours of gameplay each day, 3 at most. In this time I want to do as much as possible. Therefore I want my runs to take as little time as possible, so I advertise parties for level 80 only, experienced etc.

I usually have no objections to people with fewer AP, but I will kick your noob kitten when we wipe for the third time in a row at Spider Queen in AC because you will not stack and ignore chat while the party tries to explain the strategy to you.

I am not your keeper, I will not carry you through a dungeon on my time simply because you feel you are entitled to this: you are not. I have just as much a right to play how I chose and to party whom I want as you do. Our views are different? We part ways.

On a more positive note, your best bet is to join a guild and run with them, or at least correctly advertise your LFG: say you are inexperienced etc, you will be surprised how many people are willing to go with you and teach you how to run the dungeon. A little while ago I decided to finish my Dungeon Master and do those paths that are less frequented. Every time I joined a party, the first thing I did was to explain to them that it was my first time there and ask them if they were alright with that. I was never rejected while doing this.

There are always people that will try to help new players and I think they are awesome because of that, but always remember that this is theirs to give and not yours to demand.

I usually defend elitism, because I don’t see it as elitism, but as a will to learn content and beat the game. However I find myself sympathizing with OP’s described situation and agreeing with the 3 proposed ideas.

1. AP doesn’t need to be displayed to people. AFAIK it only serves to stroke egos.
2. Fix scaling. People have obvious advantages through gear and traits that break scaling in low level areas.
3. Respect is a sociological issue. We have crafted a society where people show disrespect all the time. Narcissism runs rampant. Parents, please teach your kids respect.

Practical short-term solution to OP:

Find a guild with nicer people to hang out with. Not everyone checks achievement points. Keep using the LFG tool and if you run in to jerks, don’t sweat it. The world is full of jerks, you are going to run in to them from time to time. Don’t let them rule your life. Getting upset about it only lets them “win.” Shrug it off, grow a thicker skin, and move forward, or you will just always be “here.” What I mean by “here” is this situation of you clashing with jerks. Every game you play you will undoubtedly encounter a similar situation and be doomed to repeat this process. Rise above it, you won’t have low AP forever.

Steelpusher.1684:

[moderator removed offensive comments]

I had originally watched this issue arise whenever I was leveling alts within the first few months of the game, where people that are level 80 refuse to help out those who are not, especially when it came to dungeons. This makes leveling of new characters an absolute grind, as dungeons provide the best experience you can get.
I admit that I have not played for a couple of months, but my girlfriend has since got the game and we have been helping each other out. The problem is that new players are pushed so far away from even thinking about doing the dungeons now that Anet are not supporting new players enough.
Now, I managed to help get my girlfriend up to level 80 at last, with only one successful dungeon run in all that time. That was when i thought that it would now be a breeze and we could play whatever content we desired.

I WAS WRONG

We are still unable to play dungeons, even with the lfg tool that is meant to help such matters.
Why?
I found out that players are not just going off character levels when it comes to doing dungeons, but achievement points as well. Because my girlfriend has less than 1k achievement points, due to not having had the game for that long and having been unable to do the dungeons due to the ‘elite’ kittens
This is completely disgraceful of any players who use this ‘ranking’ system to determine who they want in their parties for dungeons. I mean, who do they think they are?! They apparently do not like challenge- they want everything in the game to be a breeze – they exploit the dungeons and only allow experienced people to help them. Do they feel they require a purely experienced party because they play so badly that they would fail the dungeon otherwise? Come on people…be more accepting of other players…don’t go around insulting any new players to the game.

This is more of a rant than anything, but there are multiple solutions that can be done:
1) Anet hides achievement points
2) Anet alters scaling so that a level 80 scaled down to a level 35 (for example) actually plays not much different to a level 35
3) PLAYERS respect other people and their levelling up, gaining of acheivement points etc. and help out, no matter how great the challenge becomes.

It sucks yeah. But you’re probably better off because people who think achievement points determine how skilled a person is probably aren’t worth partying with anyways. In the end they’re probably saving you from a lot of frustration.

There is no correlation between achievement points and skill in this game.

AP is nothing more then time investment.

I’ve met quite a few 10k+ players who were absolutely clueless in fractals.

That may be true, but it is at least a gauge at how new someone is to the game. If you really do not want to teach people about the game then refusing low AP players into your group is a good way of doing so.

An account that has been playing the game for a year will already have X achievement points because the game can’t help but throw them at you. (You killed 5000 monsters! Here, have 25 AP!)

You are right. It’s not a skill gauge. It is a skill filter however. Sometimes when you cast a net, you get the octopus with the fish you are looking to catch.

Again and again I see this argument on how it’s unfair to new players that some people want to only party with 80s, but that’s just not true. It’s completely fair for someone to post up a party that asks for only level 80s. Why? People have the right to party with the kind of people they want; they all have the same expectations and want the same thing. You can’t just barge in to a party that is asking for people interested in something completely different than you and act like they are discriminating against you, because the truth is their party is completely separate from you and the lower level characters because they specifically stated what kind of party it was from the get go. They have the right to kick people who don’t honor that. Now, if they didn’t label the party or jump into a party that isn’t labeled it’s not fair for them to kick people based on a requirement that was not advertised. This does happen a lot and I can see how this is a problem.

Also, another point I want to bring up is that not all newbies are goody-goody like they make themselves out to be. There are nice speed runners, just as there are mean speed runners and the same thing applies to newbies and casuals. A lot of inexperienced players refuse to learn gameplay mechanics and often get offended when someone tries to explain, even if they are explaining nicely. And a good portion of them never respond and continue about their business, holding back the team and sometimes even compromising the run. It is because of those people that refuse to learn the dungeon that I normally try to party with experienced players now. I don’t want to have to talk to them, I don’t want to have to coordinate. I’m there to complete the dungeon, not to argue.

So if this separation between the two communities is going to get any better both sides will have to be more open minded. If you want to be taught, you will be expected to listen and learn. If you are more willing to learn, they will be more willing to teach. It will never be perfect as there will always be those annoying kind of people out there, but both sides need to change just as much as each other.

Side tracking a little, since the world “bubble” is used, i assume it will burst, so what will happen if it burst?

Back to topic. Let’s talk logically. Players are free creatures. Players have no obligations or whatsoever to do whatever they don’t want to do. In that case, they are also free to impose whatever requirements they want with their PUG group. Thus, if a player who knows that they are not going to meet these requirements yet insist to join that PUG group, the player should be expecting something unfavourable in return.

However, there also players who are willing to help others conditionally or unconditionally. In that case, I believe TS should be seeking for these players since this is what TS needs. I believe forcing the entire world to change inorder satisfy TS is unreasonable and logically impossible as players are free creatures. Even if anet do implement what TS suggested, players are creatures with intelligent and they will find ways to impose new requirements.

I sincerely advise TS to find a nice guild which is willing to teach and help new players. Of course, in return, please repay the guild by helping the guild in their activities. Not gold please, that is insulting their integrity.

Azreell.1568:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

How about this Sorudo.

Join the dungeon mentor guild, or just contact what we call a “general mentor” and they will teach you dungeon basics. Happily. Without payment. Be ready to learn bosses. Be ready to put effort in, and you will get a group of “elitists” like myself trying to help you. And no, I don’t care what your build is, but that’s because I make my own groups, and I don’t expect to join a meta run on my half zerk ele. I expect to make my own groups, I expect to answer questions people ask, but what I don’t expect is to run through a dungeon carrying a group because none of them want to ask questions.

That’s the truth. That’s how I feel. I don’t see why you’re so against finding help.

Or he could actually put forth some effort and go to youtube or dulfy and either watch or read how certain content is done.

Problem solved.

But, Why would anyone waste time doing that….?

<boggle>

or play it the way i like to play a dungeon, shocker i know but that’s life.
why should i turn in to a creepy speed cleaner if i don’t enjoy it, i bought the game just as you did (and maybe even spend more on it, have the CE) and so i have every right to play a dungeon the way i like to.

really, the nerve you ppl have, dictating ppl how they “should” play and how it’s “done”, i do a dungeon the way i want it and that’s taking my sweet time exploring.
btw, i don’t learn anything when it’s on youtube, i rather do it my self, that teaches me 10X faster then any website or youtube video can ever show me.

sorudo.9054:

or play it the way i like to play a dungeon, shocker i know but that’s life.
why should i turn in to a creepy speed cleaner if i don’t enjoy it, i bought the game just as you did (and maybe even spend more on it, have the CE) and so i have every right to play a dungeon the way i like to.

really, the nerve you ppl have, dictating ppl how they “should” play and how it’s “done”, i do a dungeon the way i want it and that’s taking my sweet time exploring.

And the kicker: people have every right to not want to play with you. People have every right to not want to be mentors, to not want to invest their personal play time in you.

This is a MMO, it’s a multi-player experience. It’s also a team effort when it comes to dungeons. Would a baseball team keep a pitcher who prefers to stroll around the field instead of pitch? No. Not for long. Cooperation is the name of the game. Giving an honest effort for the team is what its about.

I don’t understand this single player “I want to do it my way” mentality in a team oriented exercise.

sorudo.9054:

Azreell.1568:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

How about this Sorudo.

Join the dungeon mentor guild, or just contact what we call a “general mentor” and they will teach you dungeon basics. Happily. Without payment. Be ready to learn bosses. Be ready to put effort in, and you will get a group of “elitists” like myself trying to help you. And no, I don’t care what your build is, but that’s because I make my own groups, and I don’t expect to join a meta run on my half zerk ele. I expect to make my own groups, I expect to answer questions people ask, but what I don’t expect is to run through a dungeon carrying a group because none of them want to ask questions.

That’s the truth. That’s how I feel. I don’t see why you’re so against finding help.

Or he could actually put forth some effort and go to youtube or dulfy and either watch or read how certain content is done.

Problem solved.

But, Why would anyone waste time doing that….?

<boggle>

or play it the way i like to play a dungeon, shocker i know but that’s life.
why should i turn in to a creepy speed cleaner if i don’t enjoy it, i bought the game just as you did (and maybe even spend more on it, have the CE) and so i have every right to play a dungeon the way i like to.

really, the nerve you ppl have, dictating ppl how they “should” play and how it’s “done”, i do a dungeon the way i want it and that’s taking my sweet time exploring.
btw, i don’t learn anything when it’s on youtube, i rather do it my self, that teaches me 10X faster then any website or youtube video can ever show me.

You are perfectly right in this, you can and should enjoy the game how you want. On your own. You have no right to impose this style on anyone. If you see people that want to do it differently, simply don’t play with them. Seems easy enough to me.

Guild Wars 2 has one of the best gaming communities out there, sadly, other games are even worse. I won’t discuss it alot with you, since I know that such people excist and it doesn’t need to mean that they are ‘’bad guys’’.

Most of these guys farm duengons for serveral goals and want really fast runs therefore a less experienced player is gonna slow down the farming. The huge issue is when those same people come on the forums and post about how Guild Wars 2 isn’t challenging.

Some tips I could give to you is firstly to enter a friendly and secondly to try asking on the map chat for people willing. If you ask in a friendly way, mentioning that you are new but wanting to try the duengons, many will help you.

Lastly, if you are playing duengons for lvl’ing all the way to 80, I could tell you that you are playing this game wrong xD

nGumball.1283:

Guild Wars 2 has one of the best gaming communities out there, sadly, other games are even worse. I won’t discuss it alot with you, since I know that such people excist and it doesn’t need to mean that they are ‘’bad guys’’.

Most of these guys farm duengons for serveral goals and want really fast runs therefore a less experienced player is gonna slow down the farming. The huge issue is when those same people come on the forums and post about how Guild Wars 2 isn’t challenging.

Some tips I could give to you is firstly to enter a friendly and secondly to try asking on the map chat for people willing. If you ask in a friendly way, mentioning that you are new but wanting to try the duengons, many will help you.

Lastly, if you are playing duengons for lvl’ing all the way to 80, I could tell you that you are playing this game wrong xD

This!

sorudo.9054:

Azreell.1568:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

How about this Sorudo.

Join the dungeon mentor guild, or just contact what we call a “general mentor” and they will teach you dungeon basics. Happily. Without payment. Be ready to learn bosses. Be ready to put effort in, and you will get a group of “elitists” like myself trying to help you. And no, I don’t care what your build is, but that’s because I make my own groups, and I don’t expect to join a meta run on my half zerk ele. I expect to make my own groups, I expect to answer questions people ask, but what I don’t expect is to run through a dungeon carrying a group because none of them want to ask questions.

That’s the truth. That’s how I feel. I don’t see why you’re so against finding help.

Or he could actually put forth some effort and go to youtube or dulfy and either watch or read how certain content is done.

Problem solved.

But, Why would anyone waste time doing that….?

<boggle>

or play it the way i like to play a dungeon, shocker i know but that’s life.
why should i turn in to a creepy speed cleaner if i don’t enjoy it, i bought the game just as you did (and maybe even spend more on it, have the CE) and so i have every right to play a dungeon the way i like to.

really, the nerve you ppl have, dictating ppl how they “should” play and how it’s “done”, i do a dungeon the way i want it and that’s taking my sweet time exploring.
btw, i don’t learn anything when it’s on youtube, i rather do it my self, that teaches me 10X faster then any website or youtube video can ever show me.

… Who said dungeon mentors only teach speed runs?

I teach how to RP fashionably in dungeons. That’s skill, baby.

SkyFallsInThunder.8257:

sorudo.9054:

Azreell.1568:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

How about this Sorudo.

Join the dungeon mentor guild, or just contact what we call a “general mentor” and they will teach you dungeon basics. Happily. Without payment. Be ready to learn bosses. Be ready to put effort in, and you will get a group of “elitists” like myself trying to help you. And no, I don’t care what your build is, but that’s because I make my own groups, and I don’t expect to join a meta run on my half zerk ele. I expect to make my own groups, I expect to answer questions people ask, but what I don’t expect is to run through a dungeon carrying a group because none of them want to ask questions.

That’s the truth. That’s how I feel. I don’t see why you’re so against finding help.

Or he could actually put forth some effort and go to youtube or dulfy and either watch or read how certain content is done.

Problem solved.

But, Why would anyone waste time doing that….?

<boggle>

or play it the way i like to play a dungeon, shocker i know but that’s life.
why should i turn in to a creepy speed cleaner if i don’t enjoy it, i bought the game just as you did (and maybe even spend more on it, have the CE) and so i have every right to play a dungeon the way i like to.

really, the nerve you ppl have, dictating ppl how they “should” play and how it’s “done”, i do a dungeon the way i want it and that’s taking my sweet time exploring.
btw, i don’t learn anything when it’s on youtube, i rather do it my self, that teaches me 10X faster then any website or youtube video can ever show me.

You are perfectly right in this, you can and should enjoy the game how you want. On your own. You have no right to impose this style on anyone. If you see people that want to do it differently, simply don’t play with them. Seems easy enough to me.

My point was not to impose.

What I intended way to say those complaining about such expectations from groups or those asking for help have other options.

I’m all for everyone playing the way they want.

I am not interested in wasting my time helping.

There are people who will and there are guides as well to help educate. So these people have options.

Steelpusher.1684:

[moderator removed offensive comments]

I had originally watched this issue arise whenever I was leveling alts within the first few months of the game, where people that are level 80 refuse to help out those who are not, especially when it came to dungeons. This makes leveling of new characters an absolute grind, as dungeons provide the best experience you can get.
I admit that I have not played for a couple of months, but my girlfriend has since got the game and we have been helping each other out. The problem is that new players are pushed so far away from even thinking about doing the dungeons now that Anet are not supporting new players enough.
Now, I managed to help get my girlfriend up to level 80 at last, with only one successful dungeon run in all that time. That was when i thought that it would now be a breeze and we could play whatever content we desired.

I WAS WRONG

We are still unable to play dungeons, even with the lfg tool that is meant to help such matters.
Why?
I found out that players are not just going off character levels when it comes to doing dungeons, but achievement points as well. Because my girlfriend has less than 1k achievement points, due to not having had the game for that long and having been unable to do the dungeons due to the ‘elite’ kittens
This is completely disgraceful of any players who use this ‘ranking’ system to determine who they want in their parties for dungeons. I mean, who do they think they are?! They apparently do not like challenge- they want everything in the game to be a breeze – they exploit the dungeons and only allow experienced people to help them. Do they feel they require a purely experienced party because they play so badly that they would fail the dungeon otherwise? Come on people…be more accepting of other players…don’t go around insulting any new players to the game.

This is more of a rant than anything, but there are multiple solutions that can be done:
1) Anet hides achievement points
2) Anet alters scaling so that a level 80 scaled down to a level 35 (for example) actually plays not much different to a level 35
3) PLAYERS respect other people and their levelling up, gaining of acheivement points etc. and help out, no matter how great the challenge becomes.

Thank you but no.
I will not waste MY time to help you level up and carry you through dungeons if this is the attitude you display. Players like you – who demand that others help and carry them and call that " respect " are never going to be helped by me.

APs are relevant because not everybody has the time to help you through the game. Ever considered joining a guild? Finding some friends to play with before you demand that the whole playerbase start carrying you through the content?

Who do we think we are? We’re players – same as you – and we can choose to play HOWEVER WE WANT.

I make achievement point gated runs specifically because I don’t have the time necessary to have inexperienced players in my runs. I want people that have been with this game a long time or people who’ve put in the effort and who care about it.

The AP system doesn’t guarantee that but it’s a lot safer than using nothing at all.
Also from experience I’ve never had terribad players are 9k+ AP ( merely slow/ mediocre ones) and never had great amazing imba 1337 leet player at below 3k AP. Just how it is.

So good luck to you, your girlfriend and your attitude – hope we never meet in game.

sorudo.9054:

spoken like a true elitist, we have to change so we get to your way of playing a game.
every thought about players who like to enjoy the game instead of speed cleaning everything or is that to much of a shock to you?

Tautology much?

POSITIVELY YES – If you want to play “THE ELITIST” way, you need to change your build/traits, otherwise you wouldn’t be playing “THE ELITIST” way.

Since “ELITIST” players wish to play with other “ELITIST” players, you have two choices:

a) Become one
b) Play with other people.

PLayers who like to enjoy the game should be partying with players who like to enjoy the game, why are you forcing “ELITISTS” to change?

Also, in my experience (and i pug A LOT since my GF makes me miss like half of my guild runs), what you say does not hold true.

When i find “enjoy the game” groups i usually have a blast, though i end up dead because i run out of gas being one -or the only one- with a meta build, and being a bad player. This is usually a non-issue since i usually do about 1/3 of the party DPS, so if i down a couple of times i pulled my weight.

THEN there’s leachers / nub / bad groups, that are WAY more common, that basically consist on people on non meta builds, trying to emulate meta-ish runs, and making the party wipe (and soloing the last 3% of the boss on their PVT gear, then gloating on how good their leech build is and how everyone else is nub).

Example: I was running SE1, pugs stack in the 2-golem spot, they mess up reflect, they have the golems scattered, we wipe.
I procceed to explain the fight, and how you do the 3-golem pull, and the guard answers “they were stacked fine for me, im switching my build”. Anyway, we stack at the correct spot, guardians use WoR like they should, its a slow but easy kill, and i tell them so.

Playhowiwant guard says “it wasn’t the spot, I CHANGED MY WHOLE BUILD”, i go “ok, hahaha” and promptly get kicked.

sorudo.9054:

really, the nerve you ppl have, dictating ppl how they “should” play and how it’s “done”, i do a dungeon the way i want it and that’s taking my sweet time exploring.
btw, i don’t learn anything when it’s on youtube, i rather do it my self, that teaches me 10X faster then any website or youtube video can ever show me.

Good luck learning to program C++ without consulting a book. It’s your right to do whatever you want, but that doesn’t mean it’s actually the right thing to do.

hendo.1940:

if they’re bad then I can carry them through most boss fights which allows me to practice my soloing skills, so it’s a win-win for me.

Well soloing hunter, mage, illusionist, 2 abominations and the mandatory champion at the same time is quite the challenge I’ll give you that. It also gets you to practice skipping if it happens to be path 1. Another fun boss to try solo is Shoggroth. That’s if they make the run to it and understand the mechanics of staying on the green geysers.
Lastly, my favourite one is lupicus with 9 grub stacks and permanent kiting.