Guild Wars 2

I’m more than certain I’m not the only one who has experienced this bull kitten.

Being kicked at the END of a dungeon, before the chest or during the final boss. This behaviour is disgusting. If someone has stuck with you for the entire dungeon, you do NOT kick them. It is plain rude.

ArenaNet should not even allow this. I have experienced this about 3 times in the last few fractals runs I’ve been doing, not because I’m a bad player but because of differences of opinion and people just being trolls (bad ones at that).

This should be a reportable feature or removed from game. It’s the reason a party leader must be established and/or you can still progress outside the party.

The major problem being, people will decide to start an argument and then WAIT until the end of the dungeon to kick you. Now, I am aware that it requires two people, but we all have been victims of this and know how it works.

This behaviour is beyond frustrating and must stop. It’s quite possibly one of the worst offences someone can commit in game (I’d put it alongside scamming, honestly. You are taking someone’s time, effort and arguably money (from repair costs) and preventing them from getting a reward. I don’t see much of a difference).

What is everyone else’s thoughts on this?

Wow that sucks, am lucky am on EU server…

Does this stuff not happen on EU servers? It happens a lot on the NA servers, I hear.

They can get temp banned. Should have took kitten

Also, I thought they implemented a way that combats this.

Some people will do this just for kicks, and you have no way of stopping them. The only way to avoid this behaviour is to play exclusively with people you know.

I would report them, then find a nice guild to hang and do dungeons with.

Catcrafter.3917:

Wow that sucks, am lucky am on EU server…

Never happened to me, neither any of my friends complained it happened to them…

It’s what happens when you play with an online community, humans are by nature horrible beings. It would be really nice if there was a game where everyone who interacted with others were kind and understanding… but it doesn’t exist and there’s no true way to make such a game.

The only option we have is to get to know a few trustworthy folks and let the kittens play with each other. If you’re unwilling to take this route an MMO is really not for you – because even if the Devs were to go with your suggestion and prevent kicking members from a party in an instance… we’d find folks who spend their time going into dungeons just to troll others since they couldn’t be kicked.

Imagine if your party almost wiped, and the one person who could rez you all instead of making you run to a waypoint got you from defeated to 98% rezzed and then left you there. Would you enjoy it? Being able to kick people is as much in out interest as it’s annoying – I could continue to think of scenarios pro and con your suggestion if you like but really think you’d be better off spending your time in game finding some good folks instead.

It’s happened a few times to me on EU servers too, usually it’s because one of their guildies came on and wants in so they boot the PUG members.

I’m not sure it actually WORKS anymore though; we’ve had people legitimately leave parties and for some reason been unable to bring new players into the instance – and I came back into the instance one time and even though I wasn’t partied anymore I was in the same instance as the one I got kicked from.

It’s a complex issue, removing the ability to kick causes harm too (Say a guy signs up but then decides to AFK and make you carry him through the instance) and the vote-like nature of kicking generally reduces kitten kicks to those where a single guild has a majority presence

It must be pretty easy disable the kick during a instance. So if you get kicked you also exit the dungeon?

I’ve heard if this happening, too.

This is most definitely not the old Guild Wars community.

Never had this happen to me, nor have I heard of it happening to anyone where I play (EU).

You could always make sure you’re the one who starts the instance, because if the starter leaves the group everyone else gets kicked as well

People are not nice, this is seen all throughout history.

Human beings are disgusting and distasteful by nature for the most part.

My advice. Don’t talk in chat at all when people are like that.

Happened.
Impossible to report because the party chat disappears and I don’t have their names anymore.

This happened to me too. Was in a Fractal run, had to endure this group for 2 hours because they just died all the time. I tried to help them honestly, telling them how they can avoid dieing 10x on the Asura Fractal against the harpyes.

Then at the boss Fractal when the boss had 10% hp I got kicked out.

This is absolute disgusting behaviour. In 15 years of mmo’s this is the first time I have seen this behaviour. I don’t know if communities in general simply are getting worse and worse or if its just this new generation that seems to lack social behaviour by a big part.

maybe they should think of stealing an idea from Everquest, there instanced events lock at about the 75% point and you cannot add or remove players.

I would probably report and take screens of the incident. I like Akiko’s idea. Maybe on Fractal 3 you can’t kick by then.

ya I think if by the 3rd fractal kicking should be disabled.

A. Once fractals have started you cant invite anyone anyways.

B. There is no reason to kick someone by the 3rd fractal.

Little fix from Anet should fix this….

Eldiora.5836:

This happened to me too. Was in a Fractal run, had to endure this group for 2 hours because they just died all the time. I tried to help them honestly, telling them how they can avoid dieing 10x on the Asura Fractal against the harpyes.

Then at the boss Fractal when the boss had 10% hp I got kicked out.

This is absolute disgusting behaviour. In 15 years of mmo’s this is the first time I have seen this behaviour. I don’t know if communities in general simply are getting worse and worse or if its just this new generation that seems to lack social behaviour by a big part.

Yeah never seen that happen either. Even in WoW and ToR never seen or heard that happen. Sure in WoW sometimes people get kicked but it is more about them being afk, pulling for no reason, qued as a tank but in dps gear, things like that. But to kick someone as the boss is about to die is ridiculous and to hear this happens to a lot of people says a lot about this game. WoW at least implements a no kick while in combat. ANet should at least use that as a start.

We too readily chalk it up to human nature and fail to see that aspects of game culture can be influenced by game design. Consider another element of game design where it’s easy to see like competitive vs. non-competitive resource nodes or quests. WoW and GW2 create a very different feeling around seeing other players on the map. In one game you are happy to see other players, in the other your own faction members can be your worst enemies. I’ll leave it to you to discern the elements introduced in GW2 that could be contributing to bad behavior in dungeons.

Raine.1394:

We too readily chalk it up to human nature and fail to see that aspects of game culture can be influenced by game design. Consider another element of game design where it’s easy to see like competitive vs. non-competitive resource nodes or quests. WoW and GW2 create a very different feeling around seeing other players on the map. In one game you are happy to see other players, in the other your own faction members can be your worst enemies. I’ll leave it to you to discern the elements introduced in GW2 that could be contributing to bad behavior in dungeons.

There are none, because everyone gets the same amount of loot, regardless of whose there.

There is ZERO reason to kick someone at the end, there is nothing brought on by how GW2 dungeons work to promote that behavior. The only reason for someone to kick someone is because they are simply being mean and nasty.

You are clearly trying to make a underhanded jab regarding the new content at Anet.
" I’ll leave it to you to discern the elements introduced in GW2 that could be contributing to bad behavior in dungeons."

Either they troll or punish you. I would try make sure it won’t be latter. Your team may be bad and use bad tactics but you don’t always have to open your mouth. And even if you do, you should control what you say.

I have never been kicked out of dungeon. I have kicked one person right before end-boss because he was dragging team down and was ridiculously annoying. That’s my privilege for usually having couple of mates in team.

this happened to me today, never happened before Lost Case…Shore thing

1) You should NOT be able to kick people once you are at the end of the dungeon. It is just rude. People should get banned for doing this.

2) You SHOULD be able to kick the party leader without getting the team kicked. I’ve seen party leaders do half the dungeon then just AFK until the rest is beat, and if you kick them, the whole party get’s kicked. It’s lame.

They should make it like if you kick someone you get much lower reward (DC and leavers should not count toward this) and if whole party is alive at the end of the last boss you get some bonus, things like that.

Wethospu.6437:

Either they troll or punish you. I would try make sure it won’t be latter. Your team may be bad and use bad tactics but you don’t always have to open your mouth. And even if you do, you should control what you say.

I have never been kicked out of dungeon. I have kicked one person right before end-boss because he was dragging team down and was ridiculously annoying. That’s my privilege for usually having couple of mates in team.

Agree with Wethospu (the legendary GL killer :P). But seriously, if it’s not your party, just follow along or leave yourself if you do not like them. Starting or continuing a disagreement is just bad manner especially when not everyone in the party agrees with you. Most of the time, if you are competent, and do your best, nothing like this happens. If someone or a group is just bad and it’s not your self-created group. Throw out some suggestions and if they take it or not, it’s up to them. If they do not take the advice and fail and fail til some armor pieces break, then there is a problem there—but it should always be met humbly no matter what. You can’t just tell people how to do things and expect them to do it. You have to earn their respect first—which in some cases is hard. But it can be done humbly and most competent will follow (at least one person should listen to sound advice). But yeah, a good idea is to bring some friends with you and this prevents the possibility of running into incompetent, unfriendly pugs. But I doubt most cases people experience this problem is because of that given that the worse pugs are the ones who kick out members for guildies, but you cannot do that here due to the gated mechanics of fractals. The issue at hand is a common case of bad manner and disagreement, which can push anyones buttons.

We’re quick to bash the people who kicked players without fully knowing or understanding the whole story.

Example: I was doing a fractal with a pug and 3 other friends at lvl 20+. Being a pug, I took the time to explain every scenario carefully so that he would be on the same page as us 4 (regardless of whatever method he’s done to get where we are). Upon explanation of how to do the colossus double arms seal section, he responds with “This is lvl 20+, I’m not a noob, we all know what we’re doing.” Needless to say, he proceeds to aoe everything despite my instructions on not doing so. I make a snide comment to him saying, “obviously you don’t since you’re making this harder/longer than it needs to be.” He responds with “You starting kitten with me? I’ll leave.” So we ignore him and proceed to arrive on our 3rd fractal the Svanir Ice map. After the Ice elemental, we tell him that he’s got frostbite stacks and he should clear it. He ignores us and proceeds to get killed on the way to the final boss. He then proceeds to claim “he wont press ready unless we let him get his chest.” Needless to say, this is the only time I have ever kicked someone in fractals towards the end.

He could easily come on the forums complaining how a group of 4 kicked him out and its unfair, but we would never really hear the other side because the 4 others had to deal with his kitten but are much more mature than whining on the forums about it.

Im not saying this post is worthless and it has no grounds, but more often than not, I do think it is deserved for a valid reason than it is just being trolled.

We just have to wait for the new shinies to call the attention of the new gen players. They run to the new game to turn it a new kitten. And we can enjoy a less problematic community.

evolverzilla.2359:

We just have to wait for the new shinies to call the attention of the new gen players. They run to the new game to turn it a new kitten. And we can enjoy a less problematic community.

I’m really, REALLY hoping this will happen cause GW2 isn’t what it was (was supposed) to be.

It happened on GW1, only a few of these unusual players stayed, almos all players are civil and really know how to do something and even try to be helpful. The problem was only with some people that never listen to party leader and things start to be reall nervous.

evolverzilla.2359:

It happened on GW1, only a few of these unusual players stayed, almos all players are civil and really know how to do something and even try to be helpful. The problem was only with some people that never listen to party leader and things start to be reall nervous.

More i play gw2 these days, more i want to play gw 1 (never played it)

Have not experienced the problem personally, not have seen anyone get abused through this system. From what i’ve seen, if someone gets kicked its for a good reason (like logging out for more than 3 minutes, or otherwise causing problems for their team).

1) You should NOT be able to kick people once you are at the end of the dungeon. It is just rude. People should get banned for doing this.

2) You SHOULD be able to kick the party leader without getting the team kicked. I’ve seen party leaders do half the dungeon then just AFK until the rest is beat, and if you kick them, the whole party get’s kicked. It’s lame.

I disagree with point 1, at least when it comes to regular dungeons. I do think that you should be able to kick someone, but only if they are AFK or logged out. I’ve had it happen to me on multiple occassions where other players would ragequit (or just mysteriously log out) a dungeon, even on the last boss, and having a guild mate come in and help out was the only way to accomplish the remainder of the dungeon within a reasonable amount of time.

Then again there are other situations where players could grief or be abusive to others, like a player passively-aggressively going AFK because he knows that he cannot get kicked for example.

I think that simply reporting abusive players would be the best course of action, since there are many different ‘solutions’ that might be implemented that may cause side effects for when you legitimately need to have a player kicked.

I don’t mind anti-griefing with one stipulation: it cannot impede or otherwise get in the way of legitimate uses of the implement. In this case, being able to kick someone who is a troll or is deliberately antagonizing the other players / being useless is of critical importance. Being able to then turn around and replace them with someone else keeps the run alive, and is equally important.

I disagree. Sometimes you get people that REALLY need to be kicked, but maybe the solution would be to turn of kicking once a dungeon is over?

But until then: Wait until the end of the dungeon to argue with them?

/solved

I was so cheesed off the other day, but thats how it goes, every weakness can be turned into a strength. I don’t care about the gold or the loot if I am not enjoying the game.

I am playing with people of all ages and I have to be accommodating as its a game I’m playing after all. Yes people curse, do the wrong things, seem completely bonkers but I am also guilty of the aforsaid.

The best mild mannered solution is try to be courteous at all times, or leave. People only change if they are open to it. Hopefully I can just keep my cool and everything can be good.

Never happened to me nor my friends. 3 times are A LOT. You may try to talk less next time. Or dont play with a guild team.
But anyway, the kick only need 2 ppl to agree is unfair. I think if want to kick somebody, at least should let the majority of the team agree, that’s 3 members.

I’m not going to read threw this wall of text but I can honestly say I’ve never been kicked at the end of a dungeon nor have I ever seen anyone get kicked at end. There’s plenty of time I wish I could but didn’t want to have or backfire on me.

I personally feel like if there is someone in your group that is causing the rest of the group to suffer then they should be kicked. Either if there just a bad player or keep going afk over and over. I’ve been in plenty of dungeons where something that should of taken 20 mins ends up taking 45-60 because 1 or more players don’t know what their doing. Their essentially wasting my time and I feel because of that they should be punished. There’s to side to every story and if the op isn’t up to par with the rest of the group then it’s his own fault.

As I said I’ve personally never kicked anyone but I have left multiple groups on many different dungeons that I felt weren’t up to my personal skill level and I feel like there’s nothing wrong with that. So it may feel like a waste of time to people who this happens to but your not thinking of the people on the other side who’s time you have wasted by not being any good at this game

There’s a reason there is a kick function. let’s not forget. not everyone is innocent. Not everyone joins a party and does the right thing by everyone. The last thing we want is a GW1 scenario where your party is stuck with a complete idiot for a whole run or has to quit, forfeit all their progress and leave to replace someone. It happens. Alot. Just the other day I was doing fractals 30 and a guy joined in a full magic find set and auto attacked for the whole run.. about halfway through, after asking many times to please change his set.. we kicked him. we’d rather this awful player didn’t get the reward that our party had been working towards, that he clearly hadn’t contributed to.

@x per fection

You can’t have precognition and some of us don’t google a dungeon before we go in. Or read up every piece about it. Mostly for our sanity.

I disagree, some players are just horrible throughout the dungeon and/or fractal, not because they’re new at it, but because they don’t listen. After endless times typing, for example “Do not talk to magg before we’re ready” “Do not kill acolytes until ready” bla bla, and NO practical response, it’s like you’re talking to a wall and/or mentally disabled fish. These people ruin the experience and sometimes even the completion of the said dungeon. Thus require a kick.

EDIT Unless arenanet personally read carefully a lengthened conversation throughout a dungeon, I don’t see how this can be resolved without removing kicking after a certain point, thus my initial point.

Ahh, things like this make me sad. I can say I must be pretty lucky as I experience this sort of behaviour very very rarely. Most of the players I help are very grateful and for some reason am entitled to some sort of favour when all I like to do is help .

As always it’s about human nature but sure Anet can implement a better system to avoid this sort of stuff?

I really DO hope it turns into the old GW1 community, which was amazing! Just wait it out while the silly ones get bored and leave.

“Trolling” is a kitten plague of internet gaming and the internet in general these days. Some kids see it as a fricking badge of honour to see who can cause the most grief and harrasment amongst their friends. Its all ‘For the lulz’ as they say.

“I bet that guy is totes raging lulz!”

Their complete lack of social skills and disregard for others will serve them well in life im sure.

I feel your pain. In the beginning of AC I mentioned to the group that Path 2 was bugged. I was told by someone that there was a work around but he was kind of a jerk when he communicated this to me. So I was like sounds good if you know the work around. I just didn’t want to waste everyone’s time if it couldn’t be done.

So we get to the last boss and in Party chat I get a message, “Hey, check out this bug.” The next instant I’m looking at a loading screen. I got a hold of the leader and he said that kid that messaged me and his guild buddy kicked me.

I know its not Arena nets fault that there are jerks out there but this was a sort of a turn off for me. And I did report the kid.

Bvhjdbvkjf.1987:

humans are by nature horrible beings

You are incorrect. By nature humans are altruistic, I can correctly assume you know nothing about nature or psychology, please keep your misguided hallucinations to yourself as to protect the rest of us from being damaged.

On topic: I have never experienced this even in pubs because I can politely express my point of view without continuing an argument. If the problem persists I do it the way the idiot wants it done, if it fails he will then learn how stupid he is.

evolverzilla.2359:

It happened on GW1, only a few of these unusual players stayed, almos all players are civil and really know how to do something and even try to be helpful. The problem was only with some people that never listen to party leader and things start to be reall nervous.

It NEVER happened in GW1 because you COULDN’T kick someone in an instance.

Worse thing that would happen is people would intentionally mess up the run (i.e. a Terraway team would have T2 just intentionally AFK, or a FoWSC someone would pull griffs into a mob)

This should be the way teams operate in dungeons in GW2 or at LEAST 3 people have to tick the box, not just 2. The set up at the moment is incredibly unfair.

Yes, granted, sometimes you get a really bad person that has to be kicked, but that should happen BEFORE the final boss/3rd fractal. You don’t kick someone when the dungeon is about to end UNLESS they are actually hindering your progress.

The GW1 community, in general, was quite an amazing community, however Guild Wars 2 had attracted many people and yes, that includes the LAWLSOFUNNEH Le Reddit crowd, who are often known to bring with them extremely immature child-like people (though I don’t mean to generalize).

TL;DR ArenaNet needs to implement things to combat this behaviour.

mexay.3902:

Being kicked at the END of a dungeon, before the chest or during the final boss. This behaviour is disgusting. If someone has stuck with you for the entire dungeon, you do NOT kick them. It is plain rude.

A couple of days ago, I joined a party that was all in the same guild and played through most of the dungeon with them. When we got to the last boss they kicked me (no doubt to invite some friend, so he could get “free” dungeon tokens).

Only problem was… I had been the first to enter the dungeon. So they also kicked themselves out.

Moral of the story: If you’re going to be a jerk, at least be a competent jerk.

Empty Lord.8675:

Unless arenanet personally read carefully a lengthened conversation throughout a dungeon, I don’t see how this can be resolved without removing kicking after a certain point

It’s actually quite simple: Instead of giving 60 tokens simply for being present in the dungeon when the last boss dies, give 60/n tokens for killing each boss (or a fixed number, like 15, so dungeons with more bosses give more tokens). That way if someone kills 3 out of 4 bosses, he still gets 45 tokens, even if the group decide to kick him just before the final boss. And if they invite someone else, that person only gets 15 from the final boss.

And, naturally, to get the dungeon achievement, you should be required to kill all the bosses, not just the last one.

This would quickly put an end to hybrid guild parties using PUG players to carry them, and then kicking those to let their guildmates get easy rewards.

It’s not exactly a revolutionary concept; this is what nearly every other MMO does, and for a good reason.

Dempsey.8760:

By nature humans are altruistic

Pretty much everything that people describe as “altruism” is just a deferred benefit (as both biologists and psychologists will tell you – Dawkins, Pinker, take your pick). We are nice to other people if and when we believe (consciously or not) that it might benefit us down the line (either directly – because those people might help us some day – or indirectly, because it improves our image in the eyes of others). Genes are selfish; it’s a jungle out there.

You only get “true” (self-damaging) altruism as a result of cultural conditioning, but that doesn’t fall into the definition of “by nature”.

Humans aren’t “horrible”, either. They’re just damn good at this “life on Earth” thing.

The evolution of WoW actually offers a good insight into how this applies to games. Once the “Dungeon Finder” was introduced, essentially allowing any player to get 4 “automatic friends” to carry him through a dungeon, the general civility of the community took a nosedive. Players didn’t have to care about their reputation anymore, they knew they could always press a button and get a new set of friends, usually picked from different servers, who weren’t aware of their past behaviour.

Their previous “civility” and “altruism” were just self interest.

And that is why I hope GW2 never adds a fully automated dungeon group finder. It would be great to have a system that could list player names and the things they’re interested in (ex., dungeon name and path, or zone they want to explore, etc.), but please don’t just group players automatically at the press of a button. Forming a group (or joining a group) should always be a conscious and deliberate action, and we should be able to see who we are inviting (or who we are joining).

Happened to me (EU server) once. I was not able to report them as I was not in the dungeon anymore with the rest of the party. I was not even able to write down their “names” as I’ve joined fractal from overflow and all that was written during this run disappeared from the chatbox. And of course it happened 5 seconds before boss from the 3rd fractal was supposed to die.

Your missing her point> If someone is so ‘bad’ that you feel the need to kick them then you should do it as soon as you decide you feel you should, go back out and regroup.

The OP is talking about going through the content and at the last moment before the biggest prize kicking them.

The intent being pure malice and the motivation simply to hurt the other as much as possible without any consequences.

It never happened to me, but 3 times in the last few days is a bit too much. Either you are really unlucky or you are in fact the troublemaker.

Ppl tend to be ticked off when someone start giving instructions out of the blue. It’s a PUG, they don’t know nor care who you are. My best advice is, don’t say anything or ask them if they want to try things differently.

Or avoid all that, start your own group or jump in first :P