Guild Wars 2

I can’t believe you wasted so much time replying to that post…

Aberrant.6749:

Both casuals and pros have said mean things to each other. How about everyone just stops?

Casuals, please don’t join a speed run.
Pros, please don’t join a casual run.

I wish it was easier to make it more obvious in the LFG which is which… but people don’t always have time to read the description.

If you do enter a party of 4 other players not playing how you want to play, then just excuse yourself and save everyone a headache.

My earliest post of the whole trash-skipping vs trash-killing fiasco was 11 months ago. Every time someone joined the wrong party running the dungeon different from what they expect and feels the need to express themselves on the subforums, they keep reopening this can of rotten worms. It is just wishful thinking at this point.

clint.5681:

So why do people join my speedrun experienced only groups knowing that is going to be skip galore

That reminds me of my first attempt at getting PUG speed run group for TA. Two of them apparently were first-timers who started complaining when they couldn’t get past the TA wolves, “why don’t we just kill them?” they said.

So I asked why they joined a SPEED RUN and they said they thought speed run meant clearing everything as soon as you can.

The biggest reason for skipping at the time though was that you couldn’t trust the PuGs to be able to handle trash. They ate every big hit and died and complained about how much it hurt to be jumped on/mobs. Watching baddies die to trash isn’t my idea of fun especially when they are pvt/cleric baddies and you being zerker, having to rez them just feels soooooooo wrong.

zencow.3651:

The biggest reason for skipping at the time though was that you couldn’t trust the PuGs to be able to handle trash. They ate every big hit and died and complained about how much it hurt to be jumped on/mobs. Watching baddies die to trash isn’t my idea of fun especially when they are pvt/cleric baddies and you being zerker, having to rez them just feels soooooooo wrong.

I heard that bads rez poor zerkers.

AntiGw.9367:

I can’t believe you wasted so much time replying to that post…

I can’t believe we’ve collectively wasted so much time replying to you and BloodRedIdiot. Something I’m not gonna bother doing anyway, because he’ll just keep throwing walls of text at me until I give up and stop replying all together. Might as well not bother now.

Who wants to play PUG roulette with me? It’s where we go and PUG an Arah path, and the LFG is not allowed to have any conditions, its simply an LFG post. The winner is whoever spends the most time waiting for the condition necro to survive a skip.

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

Who wants to play PUG roulette with me? It’s where we go and PUG an Arah path, and the LFG is not allowed to have any conditions, its simply an LFG post. The winner is whoever spends the most time waiting for the condition necro to survive a skip.

I’d be happy to participate in that. But I’d say the winner should be the person who loses the most amount of hair. Obviously someone needs to record it and put here so we all can have decent fun.

Pfff I get those without even trying.

You don’t even need to go straight in Arah for that roulette, considered the average pug quality lately.

AndrewSX.3794:

You don’t even need to go straight in Arah for that roulette, considered the average pug quality lately.

Arah is more fun because you get more self-proclaimed experts.

haviz.1340:

I heard that bads rez poor zerkers.

In my experience, getting rezzed by cleric jerks happens alot from fotm 30+

For normal dungeons only Slave Driver, CoE golem and Shoggroth hates on my ele butt and becomes problematic with low deeps

our oceanic group host pug lottory sometimes when we don’t have 5

Dem pvt warriors messing up our agro and causing the mob to run all over the place, fun stuff!

Delay.6908:

Dem pvt warriors messing up our agro and causing the mob to run all over the place, fun stuff!

You gotta kite mobs, can’t facetank them like a boss.

Silly me, i must be playing the game wrong

yeah you need to L2P

kittening dual axe tanky geared warriors :p

off hand axe makes me want to gouge my eyes out

colesy.8490:

off hand axe makes me want to gouge my eyes out

clint.5681:

I still dont understand how running past monster is hard. Some people in TA/Arah make it seem like the hardest thing in the game from how much that fail at it.

It ins’t hard when you know what to do. Pretty sure that skipping, lets say, hotw p1, to get to the troll, is a kittenty experience for any new player left behind, even the skip itself being easy as heck.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

This is some of the dumbest things I’ve ever heard. If you are honestly think that the only reason why leashing exists is to encourage people to skip mobs, then you need to think a whole lot harder about what would happen if all the mobs chased you everywhere no matter what. If you don’t honestly think that, then spare us your nonsense and quit trolling.

Then please enlighten us what the reason is.

Don’t say server lag or resources because a dungeon is a very small instanced map. It would be easy to have open world leash and dungeons not leash.

Ethics.4519:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

This is some of the dumbest things I’ve ever heard. If you are honestly think that the only reason why leashing exists is to encourage people to skip mobs, then you need to think a whole lot harder about what would happen if all the mobs chased you everywhere no matter what. If you don’t honestly think that, then spare us your nonsense and quit trolling.

Then please enlighten us what the reason is.

Don’t say server lag or resources because a dungeon is a very small instanced map. It would be easy to have open world leash and dungeons not leash.

Oh god no, now you’ve done it. You’ve responded to his antics. Once he gets started he never stops. Walls of text? pff, it’s gonna be towers of pointless text now.

swiftpaw.6397:

Ethics.4519:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

This is some of the dumbest things I’ve ever heard. If you are honestly think that the only reason why leashing exists is to encourage people to skip mobs, then you need to think a whole lot harder about what would happen if all the mobs chased you everywhere no matter what. If you don’t honestly think that, then spare us your nonsense and quit trolling.

Then please enlighten us what the reason is.

Don’t say server lag or resources because a dungeon is a very small instanced map. It would be easy to have open world leash and dungeons not leash.

Oh god no, now you’ve done it. You’ve responded to his antics. Once he gets started he never stops. Walls of text? pff, it’s gonna be towers of pointless text now.

My brother burnt his finger on an iron once. Even though it hurt pretty badly, I still had to touch it to make sure it was hot, which I then burnt my finger. Sometimes you have to experience something for yourself.

Masochist :O

Ethics.4519:

swiftpaw.6397:

Ethics.4519:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

This is some of the dumbest things I’ve ever heard. If you are honestly think that the only reason why leashing exists is to encourage people to skip mobs, then you need to think a whole lot harder about what would happen if all the mobs chased you everywhere no matter what. If you don’t honestly think that, then spare us your nonsense and quit trolling.

Then please enlighten us what the reason is.

Don’t say server lag or resources because a dungeon is a very small instanced map. It would be easy to have open world leash and dungeons not leash.

Oh god no, now you’ve done it. You’ve responded to his antics. Once he gets started he never stops. Walls of text? pff, it’s gonna be towers of pointless text now.

My brother burnt his finger on an iron once. Even though it hurt pretty badly, I still had to touch it to make sure it was hot, which I then burnt my finger. Sometimes you have to experience something for yourself.

This is different man. This isn’t a little burn on the finger. You better be prepared to have every single one of your brain cells annihilated. You better be prepared to feel your intelligence drain away until you are just an empty shell.

swiftpaw.6397:

Ethics.4519:

swiftpaw.6397:

Ethics.4519:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

This is some of the dumbest things I’ve ever heard. If you are honestly think that the only reason why leashing exists is to encourage people to skip mobs, then you need to think a whole lot harder about what would happen if all the mobs chased you everywhere no matter what. If you don’t honestly think that, then spare us your nonsense and quit trolling.

Then please enlighten us what the reason is.

Don’t say server lag or resources because a dungeon is a very small instanced map. It would be easy to have open world leash and dungeons not leash.

Oh god no, now you’ve done it. You’ve responded to his antics. Once he gets started he never stops. Walls of text? pff, it’s gonna be towers of pointless text now.

My brother burnt his finger on an iron once. Even though it hurt pretty badly, I still had to touch it to make sure it was hot, which I then burnt my finger. Sometimes you have to experience something for yourself.

This is different man. This isn’t a little burn on the finger. You better be prepared to have every single one of your brain cells annihilated. You better be prepared to feel your intelligence drain away until you are just an empty shell.

Why else do I continually come back to the dungeon forums? BRING IT ON!

Ethics.4519:

Why else do I continually come back to the dungeon forums? BRING IT ON!

yolo I guess

Ethics.4519:

swiftpaw.6397:

Ethics.4519:

swiftpaw.6397:

Ethics.4519:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

This is some of the dumbest things I’ve ever heard. If you are honestly think that the only reason why leashing exists is to encourage people to skip mobs, then you need to think a whole lot harder about what would happen if all the mobs chased you everywhere no matter what. If you don’t honestly think that, then spare us your nonsense and quit trolling.

Then please enlighten us what the reason is.

Don’t say server lag or resources because a dungeon is a very small instanced map. It would be easy to have open world leash and dungeons not leash.

Oh god no, now you’ve done it. You’ve responded to his antics. Once he gets started he never stops. Walls of text? pff, it’s gonna be towers of pointless text now.

My brother burnt his finger on an iron once. Even though it hurt pretty badly, I still had to touch it to make sure it was hot, which I then burnt my finger. Sometimes you have to experience something for yourself.

This is different man. This isn’t a little burn on the finger. You better be prepared to have every single one of your brain cells annihilated. You better be prepared to feel your intelligence drain away until you are just an empty shell.

Why else do I continually come back to the dungeon forums? BRING IT ON!

N-no..no.. NO. YOU ARE GOING TO A PLACE IN WHICH YOU CANNOT RETURN!

There’s lots of places in dungeons and the personal story that use leashing as a mechanism to help design the encounter (Magg Lava event and it’s infinite respawns, for example). If they got rid of leashing they’d have to set aside resources to revise where it would break/imbalance the game, and it would tie their hands for designing future content.

It’s basically exactly what Hrouda said;
they could nuke leashing, but it’s a really inelegant solution.

Going through and replacing old paths with new ones designed to make this less of an issue hits way more birds with a single stone.

swiftpaw.6397:

Ethics.4519:

swiftpaw.6397:

Ethics.4519:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

This is some of the dumbest things I’ve ever heard. If you are honestly think that the only reason why leashing exists is to encourage people to skip mobs, then you need to think a whole lot harder about what would happen if all the mobs chased you everywhere no matter what. If you don’t honestly think that, then spare us your nonsense and quit trolling.

Then please enlighten us what the reason is.

Don’t say server lag or resources because a dungeon is a very small instanced map. It would be easy to have open world leash and dungeons not leash.

Oh god no, now you’ve done it. You’ve responded to his antics. Once he gets started he never stops. Walls of text? pff, it’s gonna be towers of pointless text now.

My brother burnt his finger on an iron once. Even though it hurt pretty badly, I still had to touch it to make sure it was hot, which I then burnt my finger. Sometimes you have to experience something for yourself.

This is different man. This isn’t a little burn on the finger. You better be prepared to have every single one of your brain cells annihilated. You better be prepared to feel your intelligence drain away until you are just an empty shell.

TIL BloodRed is a dementor.

Vox Hollow.2736:

Going through and replacing old paths with new ones designed to make this less of an issue hits way more birds with a single stone.

Yeah, and how is that one working out for them? I heard people love the new TA path.

I love it to pieces.

But, however you may feel about TA, their design logic is sound.
Moving forward is better than spinning your wheels in the mud.

I’m an expert at claiming I’m an Arah expert.

Vox Hollow.2736:

There’s lots of places in dungeons and the personal story that use leashing as a mechanism to help design the encounter (Magg Lava event and it’s infinite respawns, for example). If they got rid of leashing they’d have to set aside resources to revise where it would break/imbalance the game, and it would tie their hands for designing future content.

It’s basically exactly what Hrouda said;
they could nuke leashing, but it’s a really inelegant solution.

Going through and replacing old paths with new ones designed to make this less of an issue hits way more birds with a single stone.

No? There’s not. Not speaking of person story, nobody cares about that. I’m talking about dungeons. Magg lava with the grubs? Nope, just keep them spawning. Once they leash onto him it doesn’t break, you have to kill it before it kills him, not that hard. If you say there are a lot, don’t just name one bad example.

It’s an inelegant fix because it forces you to fight every single mob, exactly what THEY DON"T WANT!

I don’t really understand the argument anymore. There have been two dev responses, one even a wall of text from Hrouda himself explicitly stating that skipping mobs is a legitimate tactic and more important that non-skippers should band together to play the way they want. This implies that non-skippers are the minority. If there is one thing I have learned from anet it is that the way the game is SUPPOSED to be played is the way that the majority plays it. So with all that said, how do you even have the balls to come on this forum and tell us we’re wrong and that skipping isn’t how the game “should be played”. Why is it that you feel your ideals are more important than anet’s?

Re: Ethics

It doesn’t have to become nintendo hard to cost development resources, it just has to change enough that it gets put on somebody’s to do list.

I don’t mind doing another to help illustrate the idea, but I’m not about to play an endless game of Inadmissible Evidence.

Another example is the timed event right before that.
The mobs are being used to create a source of tension in conjunction with the time limit and fire turrets/catapultish-thing. They weren’t intended to be killed, the timer would run out before you had a chance to get all the orbs in. They’re simply there to try to make you feel something. If leashing was removed keeping the mobs there would increase the difficulty, and if they got rid of them (or players made a habit of clearing before starting) the encounter is missing a source of tension the devs previously felt was necessary.

Re: Syn
As far as I can tell the man didn’t sanction anything from a design perspective. He just said he’s not about to start pointing fingers and it’s a difficult problem to address. Which, he shouldn’t, and, it is.

Whatever he may have been trying to convey, don’t you think the new gated dungeon sort of speaks for itself?

/edit: Had to try to explain that better.
The emotive part of encounter design, much like flow, is another one of those things I don’t quite have the design chops to describe as well as I want to.

Vox Hollow.2736:

Re: Ethics

It doesn’t have to become nintendo hard to cost development resources, it just has to change enough that it gets put on somebody’s to do list.

I don’t mind doing another to help illustrate the idea, but I’m not about to play an endless game of Inadmissible Evidence.

Another example is the timed event right before that.
The mobs are being used to create a source of tension in conjunction with the time limit and fire turrets/catapultish-thing. They weren’t intended to be killed, the timer would run out before you had a chance to get all the orbs in. They’re simply there to try to make you feel something. If leashing was removed keeping the mobs there would increase the difficulty, and if they got rid of them (or players made a habit of clearing before starting) the encounter is missing a source of tension the devs previously felt was necessary.

Re: Syn
As far as I can tell the man didn’t sanction anything from a design perspective. He just said he’s not about to start pointing fingers and it’s a difficult problem to address. Which, he shouldn’t, and, it is.

Whatever he may have been trying to convey, don’t you think the new gated dungeon sort of speaks for itself?

/edit: Had to try to explain that better.
The emotive part of encounter design, much like flow, is another one of those things I don’t quite have the design chops to describe as well as I want to.

It would take somebody 30 minutes to program less mobs that spawn on event start, with less spots. Therefore you set one or two people to DPs and the other’s grab. Even have one get all the aggro and let the other 4 collect, then kill after.

It’s inadmissible evidence because it’s bad and doesn’t do anything to defend your point.

The fact they’d have to do anything at all is my point.
So how can you start your paragraph that way and say I’ve still not managed to convince you?

Ethics.4519:

It would take somebody 30 minutes to program

Do us all a favor and don’t post anything like this ever again…

Ethics.4519:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

This is some of the dumbest things I’ve ever heard. If you are honestly think that the only reason why leashing exists is to encourage people to skip mobs, then you need to think a whole lot harder about what would happen if all the mobs chased you everywhere no matter what. If you don’t honestly think that, then spare us your nonsense and quit trolling.

Then please enlighten us what the reason is.

Don’t say server lag or resources because a dungeon is a very small instanced map. It would be easy to have open world leash and dungeons not leash.

There’s multiple reasons, actually. I’ll list some:

*To limit the potential of exploits. You’ve already seen enemies that can’t attack past a certain rock or a certain wall, and just stand around being melee cleaved to death. Imagine if you could pull the whole map into that spot.

*To facilitate retreating. The leash lets you run away when things go south, instead of forcing party wipes every time a player has a lag spike or something like that.

*To limit the potential of bugs. We’ve all seen strange aggro bugs that prevent rezzing. With no leash, enemies can easily mess up and do something like chase you to a waypoint, then unintentionally camp the thing and ambush you each time one person tries to rez. Let alone having mobs get caught on scenery due to pathing errors.

*To make an “arena” where you have to fight something. Imagine old TA F/U path if all you needed to do was pull all the spiders outside while the rest of the group facerolled the boss, or if they did this with the veteran oakhearts in TA F path. Or imagine the ooze challenge from the Aetherblade path if you could literally just aggro all of the fire elementals out of the room, completely ruining the challenge.

*To limit trolling. You know how much you hate it when some narb gets aggro and you have to chase around the boss? Imagine if they got aggro on something like the Ghost Eater, and just pulled them out of the room and through the whole map, ruining everything.

EDIT: Can’t believe I forgot this one

*Leashes can actually make skipping harder. Without leashes, mobs could just follow one player around mindlessly, so all that skipping would require is one player to run up, get stuff’s attention, and then get the mobs stuck on a rock while everyone else has a clean run. Or, that guy will die in a spot where no mobs stand, so when they all rest the players can just rez him and move on. Though to be fair, this is more complicated than the “just dodge as you go past stuff” method.

AntiGw.9367:

I can’t believe you wasted so much time replying to that post…

I wouldn’t call it wasted. The thing with the forums is that not everyone who visits posts, so a lot of the whole “go against the establishment” stuff is partly for the unsung readers.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

AntiGw.9367:

I can’t believe you wasted so much time replying to that post…

I wouldn’t call it wasted. The thing with the forums is that not everyone who visits posts, so a lot of the whole “go against the establishment” stuff is partly for the unsung readers.

Nononono I agree with AntiGW for once.

Vox Hollow.2736:

The fact they’d have to do anything at all is my point.
So how can you start your paragraph that way and say I’ve still not managed to convince you?

So when something is wrong they shouldn’t do any work to fix it?

If they wanted us to kill everything and not skip trash then it could be done without too many resources. The game could have been designed that way in the beginning.

You, or somebody else, said they should just completely re-do the mechanics. Wouldn’t that take more work then no-leashing?

Here’s a novel thought: it doesn’t kittening matter what Anet intended, all that matters is what’s possible. Skippers gonna skip, in other words.

Broadicea.8294:

Here’s a novel thought: it doesn’t kittening matter what Anet intended, all that matters is what’s possible. Skippers gonna skip, in other words.

Agreed. Also on a side note, Robert already said skipping is fine and if you would like to not skip/clear everything, you should actively try to seek like-minded people.

Aka not join random parties and make them play the way you want.

swiftpaw.6397:

Broadicea.8294:

Here’s a novel thought: it doesn’t kittening matter what Anet intended, all that matters is what’s possible. Skippers gonna skip, in other words.

Everytime someone skips, a child starves and dies ( Direct correlation). Therefore skippers are immoral and should be banned.

Awesome, I hate kids!

@Ethics
Eh. That’s such a rough conclusion to come to.
Of course they should try to fix things that are wrong, and one would hope a product would pan out exactly how you’d expect it to. But, in reality, project management just doesn’t work that way.

Again, I’d like to stress if you’re really talking developer intention ‘skip everything’ and ‘skip nothing’ are way too simple concepts. The reality is probably outside the department and above the paygrade of everyone here, and I’m including myself in that.

I do think they should invest in the more resource-consuming practice of re-doing the paths. Because it’s an opportunity to be more progressive, they can tackle this problem and also tackle all sorts of other stuff on top of that. Like, making sure fights are more entertaining, the berserker prevalence, all the other stuff we complain about day after day on here.

Vox Hollow.2736:

@Ethics

Again, I’d like to stress if you’re really talking developer intention ‘skip everything’ and ‘skip nothing’ are way too simple concepts.

I’m not arguing the “skip everything” side. Obviously I don’t think you should skip everything.

I’m arguing AGAINST the people who think you should kill everything. At random times there’s a flood of people who come on here and complain about groups that stack, skip, suggest they use berserker, suggest they use reflects, etc.

They cry “Anet promised play how you want!”. Yet they refused to see that they are forcing people to play how they want.

I’m also tired of hearing what Anet intended. Robert already made a statement, and that’s the closest we’ll have to what anet intended you to do with trash mobs, and that’s not kill everything.

I like turtles!

That’s the thing: when Robert talked about skipping, he specifically said he doesn’t condone it. He spends the whole post talking about ways to fix the problem, and how previous game designs just created a different problem. The whole community segregation thing is just a temporary solution until Robert could find a way to please both worlds. But he’s gone now, so gates ahoy!

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

That’s the thing: when Robert talked about skipping, he specifically said he doesn’t condone it. He spends the whole post talking about ways to fix the problem, and how previous game designs just created a different problem. The whole community segregation thing is just a temporary solution until Robert could find a way to please both worlds. But he’s gone now, so gates ahoy!

Who cares.