Guild Wars 2

Tried searching for this but could not find any on the topic…

Are you looking to implement a dungeon group finder?

One way to not make it frustrating to attempt to complete dungeons with out the “zerg-rush” is that boss’ HP won’t reset after all party is wiped out, other wise is pointless since repairs will cost you more than you can possibly gain from “trying” to complete a dungeon. Take back the boss’ fight at the HP boss was when party was wiped, should be enough to counter this so far not popular choice of removing zerg-rush

I think there’s a few angles on this 1) the revive orb sales (sounds…suspicious enough to be true) 2) in GW1 every area got tougher as the game aged, if you could do an elite area fast because you were skilled, suddenly the enemies could shatter enchantments, you then got better and played all physical, the enemies could use shield (and still shatter), if you STILL got fast times, loot got nerfed from certain creatures/tougher foes added. Suddenly only the elite could run them. Its starting again. This will require tougher, more downing resistant teams and they’ll not want you if you’re x class or aren’t wearing x items. Sure you say, but we’re skilled! On your first run? as a level 75 newbie in 75 rare gear? sure you were, you knew exactly where the burrows spawned first go and where the fire orbs were. 3) Time – a massive number of your players are 20 – 30+. we have lives, children and want to hop on, run a dungeon with guildies laugh our kitten off and then go cook dinner for the significant other. A 20 min quick run was perfect, could squeeze in a couple if you could dodge the wooden spoon being thrown at you. Now its back to gw1 mentality of “it has to be long ok!? its a dungeon! an elite area!” Sorry Anet, I want fun. staying downed because one guy can’t shake aggro (we’ve all had that weird in aggro still issue) is not fun, regening bosses are not fun, slow runs are not fun. Arah, never done it, no time. CoE, done it was annoying and have never redone it due to time issues. Stop making ideas just to stay employed ok.

Please don’t make these dungeons ultra-hard. I don’t have friends and rely on random people to get through these things. Needless to say some groups are less than stellar.

Dungeons are the only thing keeping me playing, so an increased difficulty making all the gear I’ve strived for mean the same as the greens I had when I first started doing dungeons (hated dungeons until I had full Power Toughness Vitality gear) would be ruining my experience. It’s not fun dying, and arguing with random people about who sucks.

Also please don’t listen to whoever says “make it harder, this is too easy” because they probably don’t run dungeons with pugs, or often. I know you guys collect data; it would be cool to have something that showed what a player’s statistics are, and therefore could take their word more seriously.

Pretty much all I have been doing is running dungeons to get mats and money upgrade my armor which is now 10lvs lower then I am.
I can usually run several of them of them a day and I’m just one item away from what I need (soulboud, cannot buy)
Got home at 6, got on a little before 7, now it is 10 and I only did 1 run!
Given the drop rate, even with my armor filled with magic find, it is going to take a few weeks to get the item at this rate.
I’m sorry but this is not something I wish to do in my free time.
I’m going to log and see if things have been fixed in the morning. good night.

I guess I object on general principle to the idea of forcing teamwork. This is more of a free-for-all kind of game, I think you’re trying to cut against the grain here.

Yeah…so much for casual dungeon running with some friends to relax in the evening. The “no WP” deal plus the further weakening of your characters when downleveled have pushed the bar from moderately difficult to not-worth-our-time.

Dungeons were already difficult just due to their unpredictability. Yes, there’s an aggro mechanic at work here, but it’s poorly defined, flaky, and appears often to just be outright bugged. (Who here hasn’t had your dead body mauled by some boss because he simply WILL NOT turn away from you no matter what the rest of your team is doing?) Rezzing someone else just makes you a sitting duck for far too long, especially against any mobs with AoE of their own. I’m no fan of the rez-rush, but until you get some systems in place to mitigate it, your dungeon content has just gone from challenging to unforgiving.

Ever hear the phrase “cut off your nose to spite your face”? You just did it.

I had stopped running in GW2 Dungeons because I felt that the drop rate and rewards system was to low for the time sync Dungeons had become. I was use to time sync with rewards to match the time spent, the GW2 Dungeons were so poor thus I stopped.

Just this month I decided to try again and was pleasantly surprised and felt encouraged to try again…until I read about the newest change and the removal of the “res-rush” (as you call it.)

In other games we at least had the option to drag a character or rez them during a fight with relative safety and rush back in to help our team. After all accidents do happen no matter how good the team is. GW2 does not allow even this small feature. For Shame.

You can now once again count me out of any Dungeons on GW2, just no longer worth it.

I would really enjoy dungeons better if the party limit was set to eight, like in Guild Wars, instead of five and that tanking builds would be allowed to take the heat off of weaker armored classes. Also if the dungeon difficulty would be scaled to how many members you have in the party, and healing skills are a bit stronger.

Rezzing won’t be any problem even if party wipes, if bosses don’t regenerate. So either eliminate bosses’ regeneration, or allow for faster rezzing. That would be a proper balance. Otherwise u just make things harder without no compensation at all and things definitely won’t be more fun. Quite the opposite, I’m afraid.

I would love to see some level equivalent rewards. I didn’t start doing dungeons till way late in the game, so I haven’t seen some of the dungeons until later, some I still haven’t explored as of yet. It would be nice to go into any of the dungeons with my guild mates and earn a reward I might actually use. Ex. Going in to Caudecus’ Manor at 65 and receiving an item that is soulbound to me that’s 40 is useless and discourages me from doing dungeons with my guildies because there is literally no benefit to my time spent other than helping them. It would be awesome if you could scale the gear reward for completing the dungeon to the actual level of the player. Thanks!

best update! love it! and i dont understand people complaining about the difficulty. some fights are a little bit harder but overall its okay. i think most explorable paths in every dungeon is too easy – dungeons are meant to be harder content.

Nahtei.8746:

I would really enjoy dungeons better if the party limit was set to eight, like in Guild Wars, instead of five and that tanking builds would be allowed to take the heat off of weaker armored classes. Also if the dungeon difficulty would be scaled to how many members you have in the party, and healing skills are a bit stronger.

Wow, 8?!? That would be awesome! I would love to be able to take more people in. Perhaps the difficulty could be scaled depending on the number of players in the dungeon between 5-8?

Dungeon runs will be intresting thats for sure. I am most happy to see the change in arah path 4 dwayna fight where the sparks have always been a bit of a challenge (not very hard but enuf to put one in a bad mood)

However as someone earleir in the thread mentioned you guys really need to seriously look into the coding of threat in regards to a downed player. With some bosses aoeing, even 2 peeps ressing a downed player- not only would the boss hammer the downed player to death, but the aoes may hurt the other 2 too. This is just a very simplistic example i could come up with. Its great to see traits, skills and runes that assist ressing become useful (maybe). Revamping and buffing up those ressing traits and utility skills on different classes would be nice , but i have no clue on whats involved to making for a blanced gameplay. Hopefully tweaks will be done to them to adjust for this increased need for ressing.

Lotapias.5791:

I had stopped running in GW2 Dungeons because I felt that the drop rate and rewards system was to low for the time sync Dungeons had become. I was use to time sync with rewards to match the time spent, the GW2 Dungeons were so poor thus I stopped.

Just this month I decided to try again and was pleasantly surprised and felt encouraged to try again…until I read about the newest change and the removal of the “res-rush” (as you call it.)

In other games we at least had the option to drag a character or rez them during a fight with relative safety and rush back in to help our team. After all accidents do happen no matter how good the team is. GW2 does not allow even this small feature. For Shame.

You can now once again count me out of any Dungeons on GW2, just no longer worth it.

Inclined to agree on the lack of rewards, and time sink. Also, agree that trying to res people is highly punishing in this game. I tend to see people die the most trying to res someone else. You’ll see a few players try to res and all 3 go down for the 1 they were trying to get back up. The entire reason that people “res-rush” as you call it is because it’s a 70% chance that you’ll fail and die in the process. The mob(s) end up targeting you or dropping AOEs that you can’t get out of fast enough. o-O

I really think that they need to re-think in-combat rez speed as opposed to out of combat rez speed with this change. If people are downed then in dungeons they’re likely in some form of aoe and will die rapidly, which also means that anyone who attempts to pick them up during this time will die. After that though, once they’re actually dead, rez speed is extraordinarily slow. Punishingly slow.

ANET needs to look at this very very closely, because this is going to make dungeons far too hard to be worth the effort for many many players unless they nerf them a TON.

Attic.1562:

Robert Hrouda.1327:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/robert-hrouda-on-upcoming-changes-to-dungeon-mechanics/

So… the same stuff we’ve heard before? I’m afraid I don’t get your point Robby.

Yeah. We’ve been promised this sort of thing since what…before the November patch? I thought this was going to make it in for this one, at least.

Dungeons sucked. Removing waypoint zerging is desirable, yes, but not until dungeons stop sucking. Removing waypoint zerging before fixing dungeons is just going to further turn people off of dungeons.

When we have been saying “no one wants to do dungeons, doing dungeons is a chore” for months now I am really baffled at why the fun is still somewhere on the nebulous horizon while the nerfs keep coming down.

Seems they are gearing the dungeons to make it better for people without jobs or a life who play this game religiously have a better advantage than the people who just like to play the game and have fun.

So you will either have to pay a lot of money for gems to buy gold for good gear to actually survive the new screwed up system, or quit your jobs, divorce your wife and forget about your kids and become a hardcore GW2 players 24/7…..

I see so many unhappy and complaining about this new stuff and scared about future changes they are wanting to make. That’s what happened to WoW, after Activision bought out Blizzard, greed was the motive of their expansions and changes.

Personally I found this patch unnecessary and loathsome. The biggest problem is I saw was the Res rushing was gone, but the dungeon balancing was not there. Instead of making Dungeons enjoyable, it has become something onerous and unfun. The rewards are subpar for the amount of arduous effort that is put into completing them. Our group also had difficulties with Citadel of Flame Magg protection (and yes I am sure someone will tag this and call us wussies for having difficulty so that some troll can feel superior in the awesome knowledge that he is leet at this game). We had to redo our build into a damage AOE zerg build, which is what I thought Anet was trying to avoid. Well you made it perfectly clear that you don’t want diverse builds you want to bully us into heavy damage because that is the only way to clear a game.

With this update you could have rebalanced the dungeons to be group friendly and doable. You could have made it rewarding again. You could have made it fun! Instead it really feels like the developer’s egos got in the way and instead of making them enjoyable, got pissy people were having fun in them and decided the best recourse was to make them ridiculously hard. Basic game design is to make your players happy and feel challenged without being disillusioned. Any good GM can make encounters flexible to the players. A Bad GM just makes players get frustrated and quit.

If you really want, why not add tiers to the Dungeons? Story mode, Explorer mode, Hard mode and Ludicrous mode. The players that want a super challenge can do ludicrous mode and get higher rewards. Players that just want the token system or the achievements you have set up can go to Explorer.

You really need to rethink your checks and balance system. Hitting things with the nerf bat or making things stupidly hard isn’t always the natural fix. I understand you can’t please all your players, but think about pleasing the majority of your players. The majority is unhappy. Try and fix things. The rez-rush was not a fix that was needed. This won’t bring players together, it will frustrate them and cause cliques and all the things Guild Wars 2 is against.

You can still fix dungeons, please consider re-tweaking them to be fun, instead of miserable. Don’t make them only for the elitest.

For the love of god do not patch Colossus Rumblus. Ascalon is by far the crusiest of all dungeons, keeping that boss there to remind people dungeons are meant to be hard is a good thing. Theres no cheat way, no skip, you’ve gotta knuckle down and fight him head on, no amount of team carrying will save you if you dont know what you’re doing. And with this no WP porting during combat? Yes I think I’m going to enjoy path 3 :]

I really believe that graveyard zergs hurt the game in theory and I agree with the developers that the change should be made. If you fail during the boss encounter you should have to start it from scratch. The timing of this change, however, couldn’t be worse.

Rez glyphs are flat-out broken, rezzing dead players is a suicide mission, and some boss fights can take 15 minutes even if you do them right. Given the current state of dungeons, this was ill-timed at best and should be removed until we see this “phase 2” (if it ever materializes).

Strifey.7215:

Also do you have any idea when the auto attack causing “fumble dodges” fix will make it in, that’s the number one worst bug in the game imho and I really want to turn my auto attack back on.

I haven’t check if it is fixed but patch notes says “Fixed a bug that could cause chain skills to sometimes interrupt dodge rolls”.

Well the other day i had the significant “blessing” on going to a Fractal run with some randoms. It was dumb, was slow, had to do the “swamp” frac like 50 times till finally all the dumb wisp where in there. after that we were fine, completed that frac, did the next one, completed that one. Then for the last and final frac we got the Underground Frac, wasn’t too difficult till the end. The Stupid Dredge power suit. Yeah i know the boss to some isnt difficult, but i swear the only way to kill it is with full exotics, all lvl 80s. And may i put in there that it was only a lvl 2 frac!!! we all died MULTIPLE times. and the boss just kept rehealing time after time. This Boss in my opinion is a little OP, with pretty much 2 heals on him, the small amount of time in between heals and getiing him to the lava is kinda dumb, and not to mention how slow u run backwards trying to take him from bucket to bucket. But eventually after getting wiped multiple times we had to give up, on the 3RD FRAC! so i never got ANYTHING from this crappy boss. would be helpful if u at least took off the dang bombs for lower lvl fracs. cause after all lvl 2 fracs should be easy in my opinion. and we were all Lvl 80’s in at least masterwork gear, so it shouldn’t have been that hard. And Also in the end, it was i believe a 3 hour run! i have never played a game with such long dungeons, it kinda makes me want to quit. its a waste of my time to play a game with such long dungeons, the dungeons seriously need to be looked at a different angle, Making a Dungeon longer is not “funner” is a waste of my time. esspecially if we have to farm the dungeon to get the armour we want. It would take anyone Months to farm an instance for ONE piece of gear is what u guys are making it sound like, and want it to be like in my opinion. But all in all a great game guys, just needs a few improvement. Ty ANET.

The WP patch is really the most horrible idea I’ve seen thus far. I haven’t gotten any type of death match type pvp from you guys and now I have to deal with this poor idea implementation? If it’s not broke don’t fix it, furthermore if you were to lets say, make it so you can only WP out of combat(which is the idea), then why not increase down timer as well? I don’t under stand some of these Devs. And then he named it res-rushing…I’ve not heard one player use that lingo out of all the dungeons I’ve ever done.

I sincerely believe that taking away the ability to WP when you are down and your party is in combat is utter bull. From what I have gathered, it sounds like you are making players weaker when their levels are scaled down, and then you go ahead and further take power out of their hands? Sure, I believe in a game being a challenge, but not being impossible. I don’t want to have to struggle on something for hours on end if one person makes a mistake and is downed – it’s nearly impossible to revive someone when a boss fight is going on. Especially with the mechanics that a lot of these fights have.

Please, do not make the fights impossible or a grind, people have lives and they don’t want to spend hours on end trying to get to the end. Especially if cruddy loot is all that is offered at the end like a pirate hat or something silly.

It also seems like you’re trying to get people to buy more stuff off the TP (like revive orbs — which take forever so when its complete your party is potentially wiped or the fights over… waste of time). I thought this game was supposed to be able to be played without having to spend actual money on it. I understand you guys need to bring income some way, but I believe this is the wrong way. Offer more costumes or something spunky that will attract players rather than making them rely on it. If someone is inexperienced in dungeons and forced to buy revive orbs, yet cannot afford it, how are they going to gain experience?

There’s a lot of bugs too, that I desperately hope gets fixed… or the majority of people who aren’t ‘omfg hardcore’ kids on here may potentially get put off dungeons.

Kelly.5293:

I’m kind of disappointed in the new WP only if out of combat thing but will give it a fair shake.

I don’t mind taking people of lesser experience through dungeons including from my guild. It helps boost moral, gives us something competitive to do as a group other then a boring heart completion. It pay’s off and is more exciting then being bored to death farming. Now i question if people and some of my good friends will even get into groups. I really don’t want to see people being sorted and rejected by class. Kicked from groups for dying or not having all exotics. I understand you may want to make it more challenging but people wont be able to learn and gain proper experience if they cant get in at all. I really feel like this might close the door on a lot of people in the middle or on the way up learning.

Maybe next time only include this for dungeons over lvl 60-70 or something. A lot of people are going to be turned away and rejected now and sadly I would rather play with them then jerks who just want exp players who curse, yell and kick each other (yes, Arah pugs can be sooo much fun). So now i’m going to be in a position of telling friends no I wont go with them or going and failing/ being frustrated to get past a single boss. I really don’t want to see how it was in GW1 when they demand to see your title or proof that you are experienced with ghastly’s. I would love to see an enjoyable scale of progress of dungeons from the easier to the very challenging.

Really as far as Dungeons go i thought they were fine. Yeah those far away wp could be annoying but what got to me were the people skipping stuff more so. Hopping walls, stepping though them or just plain running past half the enemies. The joy of pugs . . .Oh and that CM . . . . Should be a bit higher recommended to enter or eased up a bit. I’d rather go fight Lupi then CM. Guess I haven’t gotten the hang of that one yet.

I know you have put a lot of hard work into this and I have loved the game this far. I’m sure that will continue but I just don’t want to see all the jerks come out to play and people learning to play have doors closed on them. I do enjoy the dungeon reward system with vendors and this is all 1000% better then GW1. For that I thank ya.

Thanks and keep up the great work !

So while trundling my way through dungeons, I’ve found it an easy and very difficult to not note subject on… DIFFICULTY.
When I was just a new player, having my first spastic run through the Ascalonian dungeon, I found that playing it was actually a lot harder than just having fun with it. Exploring all that the dungeon had to give me was a challenge on it’s own as the entire team, even if coherently playing, was a bit too much for really any heavy set I chose. My playing style was completely blown out of the water, and even now most any player can barely take more than one hit. The hardest part of dungeons that I’ve seen recurring so far is the difficulty, the hit points, how poorly the damage is spread. What I hate the most is that attack plans can be easily crumbled if a player is downed, or thrown completely from the equation. In most typical scenarios, even with skilled players a quicky run through the Ascalonian Catacombs left us all in a high distress. We all knew what we were doing, but the fact that all of us were being attacked at once by a multitude of enemies that VERY EASILY overpowered us was a teeth gritting, nail biting, pillow punching experience that left me with a foul taste in my mouth.

I’m all for challenge, but when you have a wave of 4 enemies that can knock you down, deal you 1.3 thousand points of damage, burn/stun/blind/fear/poison, etc, it’s a bit ridiculous when you’re a new player. Even if you and your team can conform an attack plan, your average style of attack is completely destroyed as you find your self working more with the higher level characters, rather your lower level characters. As if liquid sympathy is required to enter the AC dungeon with a 35. The rewards that are reaped at the end of the dungeon are by far more than worth the immense amount of struggle put into the dungeon navigation, combat, and most of the time, HUUUUUUGE overwhelming.

I’m trying my best to not whine and kick and scream about the difficulty ramp that slams into your face like a brick wall while driving in a drunken depression. It’s the fact that you cannot play with out having a higher level character, or at least play through the dungeon a prior 14 times in a row to learn the paths, directions, different possible events, characters, how and when to attack with who. Mostly, you rely on group character set. You can’t just run in as whatever you are most of the time. Two warriors tend to work out well as you have the heavy hitters, but lack of Necromancers causes a huge gap in damage dealing between you and the ghosts/creatures you fight. The most common scenario I find my self in is I, or my team, are either surrounded, outgunned, or just get knocked over or better yet, onehitKO’d too fast to even react to the situation. We’ve formed plans, and even tried attacking in a formal way, but mostly we end in a huge failure.

I guess the bare bones of most dungeons is how sharply difficult they are. They tend to be a bit ridiculous. Having only played through two dungeons, the level 45 dungeon in Queen’s dale is by far my most hated. Expecting a group of players to over come a wave of 10+ NPCs that can kick multiple times and cause hundreds of points of damage with each kick and lack the idea of ‘Mercy’ is a bit ridiculous. On top of that, having a Golem that can cause massive amounts of damage and generally targets one player at a time can get a bit irritating as it can casually stroll up, knock you flat on your butt and proceed to fire ten thousand missiles at you in an unevading slurry of missiles that leaves a literal dent in the ground.- Again, I’m all for challenge, but this is ridiculous crazyness that a lot of players will not stand for.

Now that you, whom ever you are, are done reading this, hopefully you’ve stuck around long enough to hear my closing statement on my rant, know this.

I am a casual player amongst hundreds of people who are also casual gamers. Most of us expect a challenge when we dive head first into a waterless stone pool, having to crawl out with several broken legs and arms on our own, but having enemies that swarm and instantly kill is a bit obnoxious. Especially if you cannot own your character in your own playing style based on how you like to do things.

Who ever has read this, thank you.

Due to this update, me and my entire guild will no longer be doing dungeons… its fine when in FOTM… because the AOE on the bulk or the bosses does not kill you in one hit… like some of the bosses in dungeons… and since reviving someone who goes down by a dungeon boss is suicide almost 90% of the time… I got a feeling people will not be doing dungeons as much as they use to unless Area Net plans on revamping the reward system from 16-25 silver per run to like 3-4 gold per run…. and lets not forget about the Karma… since the bulk of players farm the dungeons for karma… well now we cant even do that because they just took a broken dungeon and turned it into a shattered dungeon… you can fix something thats broken… but its hard to fix something when you shatter it to pieces…. please rethink the whole dungeon respawn idea… take the adice of the community FIRST before you attempt to wreak something… we don’t want the spawn system messed with… unless you make it WAY worth the hassle…. as it is, on average a single dungeon run can last up to an hour…. and thats with an experience group…. now with the respawn issue… its going to take twice that… you disappoint me with this update… and now I wish I wouldnt have spent my hard earned money on a game were the devs dont even ask the community’s opinion’s on something first…. im not mad……. just very disappointed

MWendt.7359:

Do you even play this game? It’s already hard to find a group willing to go all the way through a dungeon with this patch it will be nearly impossible….

I seriously doubt that the developers play this game. Instead of removing the skipping exploit, they ruin the boss fights. And still no proper Dungeon Finder.
I wonder if they know that it takes hours to find a group for Arah explorable…

Just thought I’d add my 2 cents, I’m quite literally a newb when it comes to dungeons with groups of people, but from the experiences I have had, here are the reasons why I believe these patch changes to be a VERY BAD IDEA:

-finding a group of people to enter a dungeon (outside of guilds) is very difficult to begin with
-when you do actually find a group, not only do they have to be experienced at working as a team, but they need to know how to combine there strengths and weakness’s depending on there class’s & quite honestly alot of players just run in & get killed, or splinter off from the group right from the get go
-players get frusterated and disconnect or lose connection (as it is!) & it makes things even more difficult for those whom are left to continue onward
-player class’s with less armor, health & (lets face it) bad tactics are gonna be sitting around waiting for a very long period of time to be raised as those whom deem themselves to be super elites continue to slug it out
-raising someone takes a long time & keep in mind those whom are even trying to raise someone are going to be attacked constantly, (and in most cases will simply end up dead for even making the attempt)

How exactly is this promoting teamwork? All I can see it adding is more frusteration beyond belief. If these changes take place and your planning on going through dungeons with complete strangers….. good luck!

Artillery.4283:

I sincerely believe that taking away the ability to WP when you are down and your party is in combat is utter bull. From what I have gathered, it sounds like you are making players weaker when their levels are scaled down, and then you go ahead and further take power out of their hands? Sure, I believe in a game being a challenge, but not being impossible. I don’t want to have to struggle on something for hours on end if one person makes a mistake and is downed – it’s nearly impossible to revive someone when a boss fight is going on. Especially with the mechanics that a lot of these fights have.

Please, do not make the fights impossible or a grind, people have lives and they don’t want to spend hours on end trying to get to the end. Especially if cruddy loot is all that is offered at the end like a pirate hat or something silly.

It also seems like you’re trying to get people to buy more stuff off the TP (like revive orbs — which take forever so when its complete your party is potentially wiped or the fights over… waste of time). I thought this game was supposed to be able to be played without having to spend actual money on it. I understand you guys need to bring income some way, but I believe this is the wrong way. Offer more costumes or something spunky that will attract players rather than making them rely on it. If someone is inexperienced in dungeons and forced to buy revive orbs, yet cannot afford it, how are they going to gain experience?

There’s a lot of bugs too, that I desperately hope gets fixed… or the majority of people who aren’t ‘omfg hardcore’ kids on here may potentially get put off dungeons.

I have to agree with this…many of the learning or new players will not be able to find groups that will want to play with them especially if they are not level 80. i have been playing this game for a while now and I personally had no problem running dungeons before with people that were new and teaching them how to run. but now it has basically become impossible to even run even AC with out getting frustrated only because i dont like to have to repeat things more than 4 to 5 times. I do agree that this will make for running dungeons to have to be more team oriented. Although i have to disagree at the same time because this may just make everyone hate each other because it can be difficult to find groups that knows what is going on to get things done without it having to take all day just to run a lower level dungeon.

Kinda of Melancholy feeling IDK…

1. While I’m laughing about the expected crying, I see myself to be afraid of doing some certain paths/dungeons. (Until I level up my guard/warrior)

2. Huge Expectation turned into Extremely Huge Disappointment
Without equal modification to balance dungeon,
“Polished dungeons and removed the ability to use waypoints while any player is in combat” thingy had became the worst thing happened ever. (Well, just what I have been afraid of.)

3. I see ZERO effort on the dungeon revamp part. Absolutely no respect for players, every players. While you want to solve the waypoint rezz problem, you did not realize how wrong it is to not consider those who will get one/two hit by the boss and in fact that light/middle armor classes had the toughest time encounter those problems which majority of the classes are wear light/middle armor. But I love scholar classes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

4. The meaning of PUG. I consider myself to PUG all the time. Why? Because I wanted to play with DIFFERENT people and everyone. Now that some dungeons will become legendary and scare the frick out of 50% players.

5. To the SKILLED players. I not that good. I am not that skilled. Do you hate me? It’s not that I don’t curse when I die, but I love my mes/ele/necro. I know how to dodge, ty.

6. Practice makes perfect. How many are willing to endure others’ practice sessions? While dying makes people rage quit, curse on others, and kicks. You just make everything worse.

7. I refuse to be the test subject. I dare the dev team who are resposible for the test of the dungeon change to form a group of mes/ele/necro to go record a video on fighting with Arah explorable path4. Or do you even test them? I want to play with my favorite class just like everyone does, but when I see that the 4/5 of group wear light armor…

8. One day people are going to stop. Stop giving you guys the obvious answers. The stupidity has gone beyond unbelievable.

9. I’m tired. This is probably a break point for me. Offline after FOTM daily.

Thankfully, I have done my dungeon hunt recently with Arah. Thanks you guys for the runs <3, I know dying on Lupi is kinda unavoidable for me, thanks for embracing.
I did not really lose much this time. As for the others who are still working on the tokens….
Well, all I can say is may the god of fortune be with you.

I agree that res-rushing mostly defeats the purpose of true strategy and teamwork but I don’t see it as the true source but merely a side effect of what the real problem is. Res-rushing wouldn’t be nearly as popular or often times necessary if reviving your allies in even a downed state wasn’t virtually impossible in many situations. Considering that not only are you subjected to extreme vulnerability for an elongated period of time when attempting to revive an ally but the act in and of itself generates a massive amount of agro. It becomes, as someone else mentioned here, essentially an act of suicide. If so many players are so easily compelled to deal with the hassle of missing the action and rallying at the nearest waypoint and running back maybe the real problem is that mid combat revival in instances is just plain too hard. As someone that achieved the combat healer title a while back, I am very much familiar with the concern of doing everything in my power to get my allies back up and fighting. I’ve taken traits, skills and runes amongst all 3 of my 80s that augment revival and yet I still frequently face demoralizing odds at reviving allies successfully during a boss fight without killing myself in the process. I don’t believe strictly targeting the res-rushing phenomenon will fix the the apparent lack of strategy and teamwork in dungeons much if at all in the long run. What it will do, however, is eliminate the last bastion for plausible success in many dungeon paths.

Just to reiterate what others have said about eliminating the rez-rushing:

1. This isn’t going to achieve more “team spirit” or player cooperation. It’s going to lead to profession / build / armor checks. Lower ranked / less experience players will be by passed over in PUGs for the most part except perhaps by their fellow guildies or other friends.

2. Imagine these less experienced / lower level players trying to explore dungeons without an experienced player — it is going to be ridiculously difficult.

3. Once 2 people in a party are down, the chances of getting them back up in the heat of a boss fight are next to zero. I’ve frequently “made the mistake” of trying to rez downed teammates. Yes, I said “mistake” because that’s the way it feels. It seems as if the act of rezing incites additional aggro, thereby “punishing” an attempt to help a downed fellow player.

4. Dungeons are beginning to sound less and less fun…. Seems you’re trying to discourage dungeon play altogether. As it is now, you usually see adverts for AC, CoF, and Fractals with any regularity. Very occasionally you’ll see HoW, TA, Arah, and CM.

One final point… AC is slated as a level 35 dungeon? Right. I would love to see ANY group of level 35 players take down Lt. Kohler—without rez-rush to boot.

I agree with the update to not allow players to run back during fights. HOWEVER, I feel that this change was implemented too early. The reason people had to “res rush” as you put it, is because of how poorly dungeons are designed. You can read numerous articles online pointing out these flaws and why they turned away many people who enjoy PvE in other MMOs.

To be honest, it seems like certain boss fights were designed for “res rushing” with a WP that is placed extremely far from the entrance and abilities that will one shot a player (The player above me wrote a pretty accurate description that applies to many boss mechanics: “having a Golem that can cause massive amounts of damage and generally targets one player at a time can get a bit irritating as it can casually stroll up, knock you flat on your butt and proceed to fire ten thousand missiles at you in an unevading slurry of missiles that leaves a literal dent in the ground.”) Perhaps before implementing such a crippling change you actually balance the dungeons? They’re still a mess. Yes, elite players can get through them but why cater to a handful of players when you designed GW2 to appeal to casuals in the first place? Newbies can’t run story mode to earn gear that will aid them in running explorable modes, and if they don’t have a guild with elite PvE players they won’t find a group because PUGs will NOT take the time to educate them or “carry” them.

This change is only punishing the casuals and as someone else pointed out, I feel like it was implemented before the adjustments to force players with less skill to buy revive orbs which is treading into “B2P” territory. Sure, you can make the argument that players need to suck it up and learn to play, but HOW are they going to learn if they can’t run back somehow during a fight? When I was new to dungeons the WP system helped because I could consider what went wrong if I died, then run back and try a different tactic until I fully understood the mechanics (very similar to new guilds running raids in WoW, however in GW2 pugs and more casual guilds WILL NOT have the patience to do this in dungeons if they have to pay high repairs and get garbage blues for rewards, and to be perfectly honest I switched to GW2 to get away from a strict raid environment where I had to dedicate 4 hrs of my nights to a game).

So, TL;DR:
Fix mechanics and balance the dungeon before implementing such a change so that they are a FUN challenge, not a grind/chore.

Hello Robert !

Everyone knows how it looks like right now… people are stoping playing. For PVP players u can find a lot things to do, but tbh PvE is totally dead… Why?? Cuz GW2 MMO missing main parts of a proper PvE. If you want to improve it, deal with it or not but few things have to be changed ASAP, till is too late (but imo is alerady too late…)
1) Add Tank/Healer/DPS system – sorry there will be no single good pve dungeon run, if every1 has to run like a idiots to avoid damage, this sytem brings only chaos and boredom
2) Dungeon Loot – if u want to force ppl to do actualy dungeons u have to give them something. Best thing u can offer is a proper gear to farm, sorry but AC Tears and other items from other instance to buy Exotic set gear its just too easy and really fast to farm. Otherway u can give it for free.
3) RAIDS – Comeon !! 1st MMO ever without RAIDS – Without raiding u killing in this game few things. PvE focused guilds, teamwork, actualy our IQ potencial to finish a instance, cuz right now its just totally totally casual imo even monkey would do it.
4) Content for more experienced/smarter?? people in the game, I remember when there was a Toypocalypse Achievement (I have done it after 1hour of releas) A lot of people where CRYING like kids that this cant be done. Trust me a lot of people did that without any problems. U should not make this game totally casual , cuz a lot of people wants do die few days or even weeks on one boss to kill it BECAUSE THIS IS FUN. Killing everyhing instantly without knowing any strategy its just pathetic.

I have tons other ideas how fix this game, to make it more pro and casual in the same time. But tbh, im not arenanet worker im not taking money for thinking how to make this game AWESOME. but if u gona have a spot for a proper experienced game tester just give me a call we will disscuss about it..

Take care, and I hope u wont make this game die

The path 4 boss “Priestess Dwayna” is still impossible to do without a high enough dps meter for the party. I don’t think a dungeon should be determined by how much dps your party has but by how good their strategy is. This boss fight is entire too unbalanced. At 50% health she goes invisible at which point we have to carry the sparks back to the center. The time it takes to carry the sparks back is completely unbalanced with how quickly she regenerates health. If you can make it past 50% she runs off of a timer instead of the 50% regeneration mark and that mark is also activated too soon. A dungeon group shouldn’t have to be composed of people who have tons of dps is should be controlled by people who want to use whatever build they have to beat the boss. I’ve attempted this dungeon 4 times already with the same results at the same boss.

Hello Robert i feel the WP zerg is necessary because of the game design.

Guild Wars 2 doesn’t follow the traditional tank,heals,dps roles, everyone plays a pure damage trait set with some sort of ranged weapon chances are if you try to be melee or create a sort of tank setup you will find yourself on the ground quick and often, those who try to help end up the same so why revive.
Melee gets beat up easily even traited with toughness vitality healing and geared with the same stats wielding a shield i feel i can’t go toe to toe with a foe which kind of takes the fun out of that.
I felt it was designed to be able to accomplish the dungeon or events with any kind of trait path you choose but it seems to favor range. Honestly i like being able to take on a group of foes and hope my team can down them before i do but you can’t toughness doesn’t offer that good protection.
I realise thats what the dodge was for and why block was made but i can’t tell when they are about to use a devastating attack amidst the other players spell graphics and the NPC’s designed movement i have a hard time deciding if they are about to unleash or what.
I am a tank at heart always have been I just feel to pursue that trait line will lead you to the poor house. If you are going to remove WP zerg then you are going to limit the only way to progress.

Yup, this killed it for me. It was fun while it lasted, and the rest of the peeps in my party seemed to dig the changes but for me this whole change is just a total deal breaker. I have always been one to res people, so this hasn’t made me do that any more; what it does do is make me spend a lot more time dead and waiting to be able to do something about it. Why you would opt to introduce powerlessness where there wasn’t any before? In my limited experience, this doesn’t make people res more, it just penalizes the people that try, because if they then die they are really screwed. Used to be the worst that could happen if you try to res someone is that you die and have to zerg res; now you might get stuck waiting around a lot longer and you may even lose your shot at boss loot. Great. If I planned on playing any more, I would be angry. Now I suppose I’m glad to have a clean slate getting ready for ESO.

Instead of building a real group finder, something that everyone wants, lets nerf the entire group experience. Doesn’t make sense to me.

I have had the pleasure of ending up in a group for CoF where the leader was yelling obscenities at me through chat and in the end telling everyone to ‘ignore me’ just because I wan’t familiar enough with the dungeon. Without the ability to zerg-res as the unfortunate outlier dealing with a tough learning curve, I think you are going to lose a lot of people who don’t have the time to spend 24/7 on the game and will now be even MORE intimidated by strange game mechanics that often force things to suck for no apparent reason.

I know you guys are doing these things with good intentions, but I have to say I’ve bought a lot of gems and now I am going away. Good luck!

pdfrod.1948:

I’m a little disappointed SE path 1 got nerfed. I felt that dealing with the infinite spawns while fighting the golem, was a nice challenge.

I think the concept of infinite spawns is “cheap” and immersion-breaking (if the enemy has such a huge army, why don’t they all just attack together and steamroll your party, instead of attacking in infinite groups of 3), and I think there would be much better ways to implement a “DPS-check” encounter (ex., keep adding AoE to the ground, like the Anraphet or Uthok fights in WoW).

Unfortunately their current “fix” only makes the encounter easier without making it any more logical. The enemy still has infinite units, but now they stop to watch the fight. If anything, it makes even less sense.

Dungeons in GW2 definitely need a “common sense” / “believability” pass as well as a “fun” pass. Very few of them feel like real places and their inhabitants feel completely artificial, as if they were sprinkled randomly by someone who had no influence on the actual map design.

Welcome to GW2 where now….

1) Inexperienced players will be ignored and unaccepted by PUGs

2) More gear checks are required to run dungeons….. I started seeing the LF (insert classes) trend during the past week.

3) Dungeon will be even more frustrating….. Lupi’s hp @ 50%…. two people down.. kittenOLOLOOLOOL start over!

4) New players can forget about running dungeons at early level. No one’s gonna pick them up. Not me, at least — well maybe I will if the other 3 in my teams are people I usually run dungeon with. I can do most dungeon with 4 people. And I’m not gonna waste 2 hours trying to farm TA with newbies for sure.

5) Rezzing mechanic is VERY encouraged but, at the same time, VERY badly designed because 99.999999% of the time, in my experience, when you’re down, you’re probably gonna get 1-2 shot by bosses and the people rezzing you are also risking themselves getting downed because most bosses do heavy AoE. They can try avoiding those but the oh oh downed players’ hp will keep getting lower. Downed players can heal themselves but oh oh oh oh some mobs poke me and I got interrupted… there goes CD.

6) Now I have to gear up for some survivability to stay alive long enough to kill Lupi and I lose dmg and oh oh oh I can’t hit burrow in AC path3.

7) I don’t have(and literally don’t want to waste) 3 hours to make a perfect strategic move and invest that much brain energy to do a single kittenty/boring/cliche dungeon run(and pretty much playing games in general) and get crappy loots. I have a life, too. Did you forget that players have lives, Anet?

Wrong move, big time. Even worse than the usual mesmer nerf.

I have to say that I too am dissapointed in this “Dungeon Update”. If anything, boss and loot should have been modified before taking away the only tactic that some of us have to be able to be useful in dungeons.
As someone who plays prominently scholar classes, this REALLY SCREWS ME OVER. I can put ever possible point into toughness and vitality that I want, but at the end, I’m still light armor and I’m still most likely going to be the first one lying on the ground. And now you’re telling me that not only does my party have to suffer my absence while I run back to the fight from a WP, but that I get to be nothing more than a pretty corpse lying on the ground? Why, thank you Anet for making people absolutely abhor me.
The last thing I want to see is map chat filled with gear checks/attribute checks/build checks. It’s already difficult enough running content that would have been challenging with the original 8-member party of GW1, but this makes broken dungeons especially Caudecus’ Manor and Arah explorable pretty much impossible.

This is a really disappointing change to dungeons that are already severely broken, some moreso than others. I remember hitting AC Story for the first time and reeling back from just how challenging it was let alone trudging off into AC explorable for the first time not knowing what we were getting into. If it wasn’t for the fact that I lead an active guild who runs dungeons almost daily, I would probably avoid dungeons altogether. I honestly can’t imagine how it feels to someone who relies on PUGs and then seeing this change implemented.

I’m all for making content a challenge, but making it impossible? No thanks. We come on Guild Wars 2 to relax and wind down, we don’t come on here treating it like a second job, this isn’t WoW and I don’t plan to return to strict raid schedules anytime soon.

Are we going to start rewarding people for having an elitist attitude? Gear checks, kicking people for dying, shunning those who lack experience, rejecting people for not having the right build, the list goes on. These are aspects that belong in other games, not GW2. This isn’t the way to go about encouraging teamwork, it’s promoting just the opposite. I don’t want to sit here and throw my character to the wolves and get crap rewards for all the effort put in. As it stands dungeons don’t have value, it’s not worth it when you can just as easily get what you need elsewhere. Sure the skins are nice but in all honesty, most people won’t be compelled to grind a dungeon for that one skin, especially when said dungeon run consists of a wipe fest and various levels of nerdrage and straight up ragequitting. Last I checked I’m positive I didn’t select ‘mop’ for my characters profession.

In regards to encouraging people to buy off the TP, I don’t mind dropping some coin for extra character slots, mini pets and so on but the Gem Store should not fall so low to require you to buy revive orbs to simply get through a dungeon. Keep the pay to win out of GW2, go on, shoo, no one loves you. I love this game but don’t go screwing it up by turning it into your standard pay to win, we have enough of those creeping around the slums of the internet.

Fix the bugs, fix the broken boss mechanics, removing ‘res-rushing’ isn’t the way to fix the problem it’s just sweeping it under the rug. Keep the fun in the game, don’t take that aspect away.

Honestly, thinking over this change. It’s a good change and necessary; HOWEVER, dungeons themselves are severely flawed and this change only exacerbates the current problems. You have trash mobs that are extremely powerful and bosses that literally one-shot vitality+toughness build characters. This is in no way balanced.

In the end, I think the only fixes possible would be to make the AI better and to tone stuff down so fights are more like those in PvP rather than simply instant death if you make a mistake. For example, in WvW, as a level 80 Thief, I got into a duel against another 80 Thief and we spent THIRTY MINUTES fighting across half of the map against each other(/salute to you, whoever you are on Ferguson’s Crossing).

However, in dungeons, you either faceroll content because the AI doesn’t dodge or use abilities like players do, or you die in one hit because you were a quarter step to the side and an aoe effect ticked on you, downing you instantly and killing you the tick right after that. Then, with this change, combined with the fact that reviving somebody that’s dead is something like two freaking minutes, dungeons have immediately become unplayable for the average player. Several of them have become impossible for even GOOD groups to do now.

Unless dungeons are fixed, or the AI is updated with a nerf to dungeon mobs, I see absolutely no reason to play them right now. I can just WvW, PvP, or craft instead.

so, i haven’t tried these new dungeons with no waypoints in combat, but here’s what i’ve gathered so far. You (meaning anet) have a half kitten gold fish who works for you. Mr.half kitten goldfish one day said “lol let’s make it so if some one dies in a dungeon, the entire group can wipe trying to revive him, or the person who died can sit there and be dead and get nothing for killing the boss, while slowing the rest of the group down. i bet the players will love this! OH and i just got an even better idea! we can tell them that we value their input so it seems like we care about what they think, but when they all give us their opinions we can ignore them for the lulz!” really anet? 90% of the people posting here think this is an outright horrible idea. changing dungeons so their more challenging? sounds good to me. making it so you don’t have to zerg waypoints to be successful in a dungeon? even better. my suggestion to you, even though you probably don’t even care, is to look at the reason behind WHY people are dying in the first place, as opposed to doing things that will slow them down because their dying. we don’t die because running back from waypoints is the funnest thing since people invented the ball in a cup, we run back because we have to. you stop to revive some one, and the revival times are so slow that nine times out of ten, you end up dying yourself. not to mention i’ve had pug groups who are simply too dumb to understand that when some one is downed in front of you, press f and revive them real quick. i’ve had pug groups where i was litterally the only person doing any reviving. this is a kitten good way to make sure most pug groups wipe 50 times on each boss until they understand the mechanics, for sure. i do not mind teaching people fights at all. in fact i love running dungeons with a new group every time, and i don’t care if they’ve ran it a thousand times or zero times, and this is because if you die, it’s no big deal. if you die, you can run back from a way point and thus stop the boss from resetting. but have you ever, in fact, had 2 people alive and try to revive the other 3 people? by the time one of those 3 people is at half health, 1 person has been downed and the other one will be in two to three hits. unless you do something to balance out the wipes, guild wars 2 is going to be a game where dungeons are only ran by specific builds. remember underworld from guild wars one? the one you guys constantly nerfed the kitten out of because of speed clears? and the more you nerfed it, the more people found different builds to make speedclears work? this is because underworld was so broken that a regular group consisting of casual players could NOT, under any circumstances, what so ever finish it in under 6 hours. So before you go on another nerfing spree, i suggest you look at the reasons behind WHY people do the things they do.

I’m not sure how I feel about removing ‘res-rushing’ yet. It’s definitely going to make things a lot more challenging, difficult, and maybe even more frustrating.

The problem with reviving party members is that it takes a long time to revive them. There is also no clear way to control aggro or good way to heal other party members with low HP. Most skills are only self healing or give only temporary regen. There should be better ways to control aggro like skills for each class to provoke or shirk off aggro. There could also be a change in healing skills or added healing skills that allow healing other allies to be easier.

if they weren’t gonna do phase 2 together with phase 1, then they never should have implemented phase 1 in the first place… this just ruins dungeons for everyone who’s not decked out in exotic/ascended gear…

I wouldn’t farm CoF a lot but I would definitely do a few runs here and there… while path 1 isn’t incredibly hard, it’s still a pain… I would be fine with it if all these objectives weren’t incredibly gimmicky jokes that set you up to die… you need a perfect group to take out “trash” mobs between acolytes, and then you need to stand in a tiny circle while 3 assassins bash you in the face… fun…

worst thing is… I never had a problem finding a group, even when I was wearing all greens, I was never asked to ping my gear… now all the groups I tried joining today are asking me to ping and I get kicked because I ONLY have 3 exotics…

and path 2, don’t even get me started, as others said, I tried with multiple groups, failed every time… it was never a problem before…

and this is an easy exp run… what happens when you gotta do story mode with people who have no idea what they’re doing (including me as well to some degree)

this patch will destroy dungeons, because now you need a mesmer/warrior/warrior/warrior/warrior group with all exotic gear at least…

you’ve made life miserable for most of your players because of a few farmers… this is awful…

Robert Hrouda.1327:

“Phase 2 of our dungeons evolution will see a lot of changes to bosses and enemies. We plan on taking a good, hard look at the health values and mechanics of our elites and bosses, and in turn how we reward players for their time investment and risk. This will include looking into every boss in our dungeons and seeing what we can do to enhance the gameplay experience in order to make more memorable and strategic encounters.”

Robert Hrouda.1327:

“Dungeons were designed to be highly focused on teamwork. The current res-rushing mechanic discourages the type of behavior we intended when a fellow player goes down. We hope that by eliminating res-rushing, we’ll bring dungeons more in-line with our original design goals, which are based around team play and strategy.”

That is how this should have been coordinated, the phases being reversed as to their order of implementation. It was irresponsible and slightly heartbreaking to have content ripped from the normal dungeons while Fractals appears to have been promoted, yet again. The proper approach to this development should have been to give the players the content we have been asking, pleading, and told we would receive instead of the slap to the face whilst a fist full of candy was distracting our hungry gazes. It feels as if the image of this game you envision has blinded your view of the current model. We do not have the improved reward vs. risk that you speak of yet, so it is understandable that the public is noticeably kitten about the way in which your “original design goals” were applied. It baffles me why our feedback is continually requested when it often appears to be brushed aside because the “original design goals” conflict with our critiques. Rather than blind-side everyone with secretive development like this, tell everyone what direction we are setting sail and maybe… just maybe our Santa Maria will find its India.

so, are you considering to add worthy to have items for all players (by class) from bosses? I’m very booooooooooooooooored of all dungeons some encounters are too easy while some others are so stupid hard to complete in greens/rare, exotics, even… (arah anyone???) for a lame (disappointing) prize: boxes with very low quality (really? I get better stuff from slimes) a rare weapon… eh… taking in mind that to kill zaithan I ended naked 2 times because of the “res-rushing” now let’s not talk about story mode… something that might help stoping the res-rush imo is to make the bosses to stop picking on downed players or let them get up faster, I don’t know, anything that makes less annoying to get back up (people also need to learn to stop attaking when downed though)

Something that I’m REALY looking foward is for a boss (maybe in FotM it’s more viable) like the Sorrow’s Furnace…. I mean Sorrow’s Embrace Story Mode final boss! BIG foe, no regular skills could hurt him, amazing flame beans and stuff! That was one of the most memorable fights I’ve had, even he not being dificult, just fun!