Guild Wars 2

Voltaire.5824:

Hmm. I don’t have much dungeon experience, but in most dungeons, we wouldn’t have made it past the last few bosses without the res-run.
I’m talking about a random group here. And yes, we did discuss strategy in hard fights.

Now, disabling the wp during combat is a good idea to encourage teamwork, but there must be a system to help teammates get up in a fight. Otherwise dungeons become to hard. Perhaps ressing will go faster when more teammates are down? A (personal?) bar that fills as you deal and recieve damage and will res someone for (a part of) the stored energy? Some object (a little totem?) which can be picked up and used to res someone? (it could give a skillbar with a healing, condition remove and res skills?)

I know the bosses will be changed, but a little help in dungeons would be nice.

Res-ing already goes faster with more people doing it, and the res bar does not decrease (for fully KO’d players), so you can easily start a res, dodge an attack, then get back to resing and you will get them up eventually.

Removing the waypoints of dungeons is the one thing that will exclude me completely from doing dungeons and enjoying them, as you wont be able to res back (as we do in the entire world why should dungeons be an exception) i will spend most my time in dungeons dead, and will be refused in futures endeavours in the dungeon, i already enjoyed very few of them as is hard as hell to get into a party to go explore it, and you can only try it with full party as it dont scales, so my 4 attemps of doing them will be my last, its sad to seee the evolution we had on the dungeos from gw1 is going away and back to the kitten wipe everytime, i agree for organized teams like guild teams will continue to prevail over the casual losers like myself who arent going to be even able to get into a group now, even worse be able to finish dungeon, again gw is turning its back on the casual playr which ironically is the one that real spend bucks on store, since leet everyday leets keep getting rarer and expensive stuff to trade for gold and gems, i have a great idea, why dont you restric the armor fixing on dungeons too, so it get just like gw1 dungeons where you have to zone to outpost to start again, increase in dificulty wont bring the fun back, such a beautyfull game, so bad management, bring on the nerfs anet !

The only thing I’m not a huge fan of, is how fights seem to revolve around the act of getting downed, and then having teammates revive you, rather than healing and support to keep up from getting downed to begin with. Probably just my mentality still switching to this game though. :\ idk, I’m optimistic and hope that these changes will work out in favor of the many

Ahh – dungeons. To start off, I am a dedicated GW2 player, 4 toons thru story line, all crafts, almost all JPs, top of line gear and weapons, over 1k hours – but dungeons are so painful. Couple days ago spent 5 hours w guildie team, on ts for comm and only succeed w 2 fractals. Trying to keep everyone alive requires what you call res-rushing. BS – it is just trying to get back to my guildies before everything goes further into the toilet yet again. One player got dc’d so then down to 4 so not enuf dps. This is fun? Impossible is not the definition of a challenge. This game appears to be made for Alpha players who do nothing but dungeons. I have tried about 3 of the regular dungeons and they were long, ugly, depressing, purely painful & unpleasant experiences. New guildmates who are less experienced want to try them and then I think – uh oh – we will surely not complete this and waste hours in the process. But we go, we try, we die over and over and over again. No one is having fun, everyone is busting their butt and success is rarely if ever achieved. And the loot is crap as frosting on this poisonous cake. 20-30 deaths, canisters, orbs, lots of silver. Wow, reading this I wonder why I bother, others are asking the same questions. Our guild of over 150 really has only about 40 who play now. Rest look like they have given it up.
I frankly do not see this GW having a long life if everything in it is done for pvp players and dungeon fanatics. Regular players, the bread and butter of this game, can’t make the cut, can’t play at the levels required to do anything but story line over and over and over again. Boring. And don’t get me started on wvw which is just a zergfest. Who would bother to even go in there any more either.
Wish I could be or feel more positive. Wish I didn’t have so much time and energy invested in this game.

If you implement a GROUP DUNGEON FINDER many players will be very very very happy me included of course

Silidus.7985:

Res-ing already goes faster with more people doing it, and the res bar does not decrease (for fully KO’d players), so you can easily start a res, dodge an attack, then get back to resing and you will get them up eventually.

A: You can’t dodge right away from rezzing, at least it’s never worked for me. You have to stand first and then dodge, by which time you’ve been hit by an attack which is probably going to 1 or 2 shot you.
B: Then that’s at least 2 people not dpsing and getting hit without being able to block or retaliate. Plus the person on the ground who is left staring at a screen and feeling bad because they’re weighing down the party rather than rezzing at a wp and running back to help.

To me, that sounds like the opposite of fun.

My sweetie has already said that he doesn’t like the proposed “you can’t res at a WP if you die in a dungeon unless all are dead or retreated” idea. He may stop doing dungeons completely. I’m not fond of the idea, but am willing at least try a dungeon if this patch does come to pass and then decide. I probably will not like it as I am not the best player even though I do play every night.

We go with our guildies in mixed groups with mixed experience and anyone is welcome. If you die, you just res at a WP and run back. It’s a pain, but it allows all to come along regardless of how good they are.

And we do work as a group contrary to what the statistical data seems to indicate. Most importantly, you can still have fun and not have to worry about being excluded from doing a dungeon with friends because you are new to the game or your build or your character class or you just suck.

Personally I think that the “being able to res at a WP and run back” mechanic should NOT be removed or re-done. Maybe a better approach would be to give an extra award if no one in the party died.

rizzo.1079:

Silidus.7985:

Res-ing already goes faster with more people doing it, and the res bar does not decrease (for fully KO’d players), so you can easily start a res, dodge an attack, then get back to resing and you will get them up eventually.

A: You can’t dodge right away from rezzing, at least it’s never worked for me. You have to stand first and then dodge, by which time you’ve been hit by an attack which is probably going to 1 or 2 shot you.
B: Then that’s at least 2 people not dpsing and getting hit without being able to block or retaliate. Plus the person on the ground who is left staring at a screen and feeling bad because they’re weighing down the party rather than rezzing at a wp and running back to help.

To me, that sounds like the opposite of fun.

I agree with Rizzo. I am not a “tank” type guardian, I try to be more support. Yet the AI of the enemies seems to aggro on me all the time, and I drop far more often than I probably should. I feel bad dropping and laying there like a useless pile of rags while my party is now without my boons and healing. Plus if they try to rez me, chances are they die themselves.

So am I forced to re-spec my guardian to be more “tank” style and less support? It certainly feels that way…but I don’t want to do that! This update is forcing me to play in a way that I don’t want to (I certainly hope that wasn’t the intent).

I guess I’ll play on alts for a while since my main Guardian is now wrongly-specced, and I’m not 100% sure what to do about it at this point.

the new wp resurection is stupid idea thad means most groups have to spend 1-2h in dungeon if there not skill thad means most casul player will have no chains and will leave second soom fight will take 3-4hs now like in arah

FlareHeart.4360:

rizzo.1079:

Silidus.7985:

Res-ing already goes faster with more people doing it, and the res bar does not decrease (for fully KO’d players), so you can easily start a res, dodge an attack, then get back to resing and you will get them up eventually.

A: You can’t dodge right away from rezzing, at least it’s never worked for me. You have to stand first and then dodge, by which time you’ve been hit by an attack which is probably going to 1 or 2 shot you.
B: Then that’s at least 2 people not dpsing and getting hit without being able to block or retaliate. Plus the person on the ground who is left staring at a screen and feeling bad because they’re weighing down the party rather than rezzing at a wp and running back to help.

To me, that sounds like the opposite of fun.

I agree with Rizzo. I am not a “tank” type guardian, I try to be more support. Yet the AI of the enemies seems to aggro on me all the time, and I drop far more often than I probably should. I feel bad dropping and laying there like a useless pile of rags while my party is now without my boons and healing. Plus if they try to rez me, chances are they die themselves.

So am I forced to re-spec my guardian to be more “tank” style and less support? It certainly feels that way…but I don’t want to do that! This update is forcing me to play in a way that I don’t want to (I certainly hope that wasn’t the intent).

I guess I’ll play on alts for a while since my main Guardian is now wrongly-specced, and I’m not 100% sure what to do about it at this point.

Hard to give specific advice, but I will say that if you are a dedicated ‘supporter’ then you need to make sure that your team has some dedicated (or at least capable) ‘controllers’.

As a supporter you need to hang WAY back from the fight to prevent pulling aggro, and sometimes you will anyway so tricks like shield bubble, line of warding etc help a lot.

I am seeing a great deal of stuff on the forums complaining about getting attacked while resing. Honestly, that SHOULD be hard, so plan for it. Guardian reflect wall is a great tool when trying to res a downed or KO’d ally. Just plop it down and you can ignore projectiles and safely res for a little bit.

I can tell you that the first time through the Grawl Fractal, the final fire boss wiped our entire team (except me), but I was able to dodge, manuver and shield my way to resing 2 other members, who (with me still holding aggro) managed to get the other two up for an absolutely epic win that FELT REALLY GOOD!

Pretty much every class has a great toolbox, if you’re having trouble with a particular aspect of your playstyle, check the toolbox, maybe something will help.

Twonaiver.1976:

Removing the waypoints of dungeons is the one thing that will exclude me completely from doing dungeons and enjoying them, as you wont be able to res back (as we do in the entire world why should dungeons be an exception) i will spend most my time in dungeons dead, and will be refused in futures endeavours in the dungeon, i already enjoyed very few of them as is hard as hell to get into a party to go explore it, and you can only try it with full party as it dont scales, so my 4 attemps of doing them will be my last, its sad to seee the evolution we had on the dungeos from gw1 is going away and back to the kitten wipe everytime, i agree for organized teams like guild teams will continue to prevail over the casual losers like myself who arent going to be even able to get into a group now, even worse be able to finish dungeon, again gw is turning its back on the casual playr which ironically is the one that real spend bucks on store, since leet everyday leets keep getting rarer and expensive stuff to trade for gold and gems, i have a great idea, why dont you restric the armor fixing on dungeons too, so it get just like gw1 dungeons where you have to zone to outpost to start again, increase in dificulty wont bring the fun back, such a beautyfull game, so bad management, bring on the nerfs anet !

Twonaiver,
Very well said. I have a full time job and family. I dont have endless hours to scan the forums to find every little bug or advantage. " This Boss holds his hand up before firing the fireball. This set of rings u need to dodge when there is smoke on the ice. " I have bought this game for my wife, son, internet friend and me. That is 4 copies. And spent I know over $200.00 in Gems. over the last few months. Just to go into a dungeon to have some elitiest Jerk to spam my pm’s. About how I need to learn how to play and dodge more or get in the dark kicked from the team for dieing a couple of times.

It really seems GW2 on really care about the ppl that really pay the bills. But want to cater to some elitiest that run lvl35 dungeons at lvl80 with zerker gear and then complain that the dungeons are to easy. Hmmm, lvl35 dungeon I wonder why is so easy. Going and running around in Queensdale at lvl80 would get boring too. Go play Factions. I am sure FotM lvl50 and above has something for them. But leave the lower lvl’s alone. The last few months I have seen the GOD complex just getting worse. Go take a look at gw2lfg.com. 90% of the post are for skilled players only. These same elite players will be bored with the game in 6 months and move to a new game. Leaving GW2 with no soild base. I played GW1 from time of release and sent alot of money there . Bought 8 hero slots and all the upgrades and everything. I dont care to join a Large Guild. With all there rules. Vent or TS stay active in the forums with all the drama. I just want to be able to log on and join a team and have fun. Doesnt matter if I die 10×. I learn alittle each time and do better the next time. But dont care to be cussed at and talk down too. Report it to GW2 and all they say is. " That is what the Filters and Block are for "
Now about the upgrade. I can understand there point of wanting more team play. Ok !

1. Why not add voice chat in game. Its ALOT easier to explain things. Then typing it out in chat. And would make the players feel more like they are part of the team. There is nothing worse then getting on a team with 3 or 4 guildies that are on vent and never talk to u or explain anything. GW2 really want more team play. There is other ways to do it. Then just let u lay there dead while other talk about u in vent. They only reason u are there is because they have to have that 5th person to unlock the door or get to the next stage.
2. Give a rez signet that only charges after killing a Boss or a Champion like in GW1. Then ppl wouldnt need waypoints all over the place. 1 waypoint at the start would be fine. But taking away res while in battle really takes away from the game for the 99% of the players that play to relax.
There really needs to be a roll back on this update until a more solid fix can be made.

DUNGEONS should be for all players to have fun. Not just the 1% Elite. There really isnt just alot to do solo in GW2. After u finish quest its all about teams after that. If you take away dungeons away from the average player and there not fun anymore. The game will die.

Someone really needs to think more about the players that pay the bills.

the new dungoen wp system just ones to make u quite the game it is just like ara pre update 4hs in arah when we got to finnal boss it bugd out and the evend didnt stard

Dear god please make sure the fire golem in Sorrows Embrace is powered down. Everybody just dies because he’s impossible to avoid and he does so much damage it’s kitten Every time I’ve done that raid everybody just dies.

I have a hunch the bosses are going to just be ridiculously op even though they’ve been powered down. I really liked dungeons before but I don’t really want to do them anymore because no-one resses other players anyway so it’s going to be a huge series of raid wipes and angry people ripping each other apart over their inability to play the game the way it’s designed to be played. I can see a lot of conflict between players coming in with this patch. I personally always get people up when they’re downed so I appreciate the fact you guys are trying to make the game forced to be played the way it was designed but I’m concerned about dungeon gear now being unachievable due to near impossible fights unless your whole group are pros.

Libertys Knight.4520:

TL… but still read it

I am a casual player, I have a wife, kids job, house…. and 5 seconds of time to learn how to dodge.

The problem your trying to address is that “There are elitist Jerks in the world that don’t know how to have fun with a challenge”. The answer to this is NOT to remove the challenge, but to bring your own positive attitude and try to encourage that in others.

Stop, Communicate, Laugh…… (and dodge)

@Libertys Knight.4520

Hmm… let me see, I come home after a hard day, just want to relax for an hour and get my daily dungeon done before I go to bed. The only way to pull that off is to be one of those elitist jerks and look for “30 AR required, at least 500 Fractals completed” 1% players, because in any other case the dungeon will take 4 hours instead of 40 minutes, if it’ll be completed at all. I’ve seen too many rage quits on Fractal #2 or #3 when we get Grawl or Colossus.

With the current update it’s all become even worse. Top of the line gear, optimized Build and the ability to make split-second decisions to doge or fire off a utility skill to prevent instant-death, while knowing every boss mechanic by heart is right now the only way to get through with just a small amount of frustration. And with the amount of kitten loot you get, anything worse than just a small amount of frustration is not worth it ;-)

And you know, I’ve actually helped many lower level and inexperienced groups with dungeons. I’m not an elitist jerk because that’s my personality. It’s the only way for me to make dungeon content at least a little bit fun right now ;-)

kioga.2439:

The number of ppl that dont like this fix is too large..

I do guild runs and pugs runs and its true that if you fall downed in the spike traps of AC you have 70% chance that all your partners run over your damaged body and no one of the 4 remaining ppl stop to rez you or help you rally. THATS RIDICULOUS!!

.

Unfortunately, as was mentioned earlier traps don’t count as combat so your corpse will continue to rot.

As someone who set out for her “Combat Healer” title right off the get-go, I have always enjoyed res’ing other players (the price to pay is that about 50% of my own dungeon deaths come from me cutting it to close trying to help another downed player, so I’ll actually be res-ing LESS with these new changes).

I personally, have not had your experiece, not even close, with groupmates ignoring downed players. I play usually with 1-2 friends, and the rest PUG. It is almost always a priority to res downed players, because frankly [most of] the fights just can’t be completed with 2-3 players (an exception might be when the boss is down to 5%HP and the rest of the players push for the final kill, rather than risk a reset).

DEAD players are another matter. I can think of at least several fights where res’ing a dead player is near impossible (TA’s nightmare vines come to mind). The matter is only aggravated by the fact it takes so long to res from dead, and there is a somewhat slow transaction to starting or leaving the “res position”, leaving the “healer” very vulnerable. I’m not impressed much by the rune of mercy, of which I have a full 6/6 set power/tough/vital lv 80 exotics. [May have been better if said character was a guardian…who knows]

I have friends that play GW2 amoung other MMO’s, and avoid the dungeons because they are “long, annoying, and boring”. This newer mechanic makes them longer, more annoying, and still boring. I’ve had to turn down dungeon runs because I didn’t have the length of play time IRL available to dedicate to a dungeon run as they stand, not to mention running the risk of a new build or some other bug completely screwing everyone over too.

Waypoint change will help to increase the skill level of players, making those with less skill learn better if they want to continue doing dungeons (and removing them from the pool if they don’t). I don’t mean that to sound elitist, but there are plenty of people who will stop doing dungeons because of this change and I don’t see that as a bad thing.

Pick up groups are not something I do regularly, but when I do I’ve mostly come across players who lack understanding of the game and are baffled at the fact that on CoF P2 we don’t 1-2-2. People typically look for the path of least resistance, like skipping enemies and finishing as fast as possible or exploiting a known bug. I would prefer this community be better than that. And if ArenaNet designs in that direction for what kind of players they are encouraging people to be, then good on them.

These dungeon mechanics and tuning based on this new change cannot be brought to the lowest level of player, and I’m glad they didn’t. Dungeons purpose is not to pack your lunch and send you on your way with 66-72 tokens with a kiss on your forehead. It is going to take time to determine what the general population is capable of and where that leaves some of the encounters.

Keep up the good work. Really digging the new CoF p2 assassin event. Only one I’ve had the chance to run thus far.

i would LOVE to see bosses drop loot that isint complete crap. if the dungeons get harder i think the loot should reflect that i have ran several dungeons in a row and never even get anything above a blue. unless you count the coin purses with karma in them…

Along with other dungeons T/A will never be ran again. if anyone dies in that dungeon you might as well leave the group because you usually cannot run back to get to them and if its going to be fixed as to where you cant res while there in combat that dungeon will die. (even though if its not FotM or CoF it does not get ran at all any more)

After reading everyones replies (thus far), I’d have to say an overwhelming majority of people are not in favour of the proposed changed to the dungeons. I think its time the developers got back together and re-discussed it altogether…. SERIOUSLY!

I’ve done some editing in the past of certain games (yes I even ran my own game server once!) & when it comes to balance, rewards and teamwork you guys really need to approach this from another angle. I have a few suggestions which you can have a quick read through of, or you can just dismiss it & totally disregard anything that any of us are saying… hopefully you’ll give at least one of the suggestions a go….

My suggestions:
-Re-work the boss’s in the dungeons themselves, make each boss vulnerable to 1 specific class of character (this will encourage TEAM WORK) & people will mix there party full of every class rather then just taking (all tanks) for example
-Make the boss’s progressively harder, make them intially easy for the groups, then make em more and more difficult as they get closer to finishing the dungeon (make em spawn randomly each time the dungeon is re-done), that way its fair on all class’s
-Make the rewards worthwhile, OMG the loot drops for dungeons are absolutely terrible atm, the reason everyone goes through a dungeon to begin with is for the final reward, getting a blue or green item with some gems & little gold, its just not worth the trouble of dieing 10 + times and repairing your armour 10 + times (at the end of any dungeon most newb players are going to be thinking, “Well the hell with this, I’m not coming back here again!”.
-My final suggestion for the developers….. TEST THE DUNGEONS, not only with friends you know (and whom are veterans and already know what they are doing), but with complete strangers whom you’ve never met before… the developers need to test, test and RE-TEST to see if the changes they have made actually work in principal across the board for both newbs & veteran players, my advice, lower lvl dungeons should be easier (around lvl 30’s), higher lvl 1’s legendary….. (70-80), that way newbs can ease into dungeons & learn teamwork rather then get gang bashed right from the get go!

Well, I’ve had my rant, gave my suggestions, the people at the top will either listen or reject what I’ve said. Peace! =)

I agree tht some changes are needed but to remove are right to res freely is a bit harsh
:( but I see the point of what your saying…

Silidus.7985:

FlareHeart.4360:

rizzo.1079:

Silidus.7985:

Res-ing already goes faster with more people doing it, and the res bar does not decrease (for fully KO’d players), so you can easily start a res, dodge an attack, then get back to resing and you will get them up eventually.

A: You can’t dodge right away from rezzing, at least it’s never worked for me. You have to stand first and then dodge, by which time you’ve been hit by an attack which is probably going to 1 or 2 shot you.
B: Then that’s at least 2 people not dpsing and getting hit without being able to block or retaliate. Plus the person on the ground who is left staring at a screen and feeling bad because they’re weighing down the party rather than rezzing at a wp and running back to help.

To me, that sounds like the opposite of fun.

I agree with Rizzo. I am not a “tank” type guardian, I try to be more support. Yet the AI of the enemies seems to aggro on me all the time, and I drop far more often than I probably should. I feel bad dropping and laying there like a useless pile of rags while my party is now without my boons and healing. Plus if they try to rez me, chances are they die themselves.

So am I forced to re-spec my guardian to be more “tank” style and less support? It certainly feels that way…but I don’t want to do that! This update is forcing me to play in a way that I don’t want to (I certainly hope that wasn’t the intent).

I guess I’ll play on alts for a while since my main Guardian is now wrongly-specced, and I’m not 100% sure what to do about it at this point.

Hard to give specific advice, but I will say that if you are a dedicated ‘supporter’ then you need to make sure that your team has some dedicated (or at least capable) ‘controllers’.

As a supporter you need to hang WAY back from the fight to prevent pulling aggro, and sometimes you will anyway so tricks like shield bubble, line of warding etc help a lot.

I am seeing a great deal of stuff on the forums complaining about getting attacked while resing. Honestly, that SHOULD be hard, so plan for it. Guardian reflect wall is a great tool when trying to res a downed or KO’d ally. Just plop it down and you can ignore projectiles and safely res for a little bit.

I can tell you that the first time through the Grawl Fractal, the final fire boss wiped our entire team (except me), but I was able to dodge, manuver and shield my way to resing 2 other members, who (with me still holding aggro) managed to get the other two up for an absolutely epic win that FELT REALLY GOOD!

Pretty much every class has a great toolbox, if you’re having trouble with a particular aspect of your playstyle, check the toolbox, maybe something will help.

Thanks for the suggestions. I plan on attempting to re-spec later. I’m just annoyed that my chosen play style now seems invalid and I have to re-think it all based on ONE change to the dungeons. Ugh…

I think the problem is, although our group is fairly balanced, we generally lack a warrior. The problem (I think anyway) is that we have too many glass-cannons and not enough tanks. We have necros, rangers, thieves, eles, guardians, mes and engis but very few of my group like the warrior…it’s kinda…boring.

I HAVE a warrior, but felt it was sorta lacklustre. I guess I’ll see what I can do about maybe tweaking my warrior for banners and boons and such to see if I can live longer that way.

It just upsets me that this update has essentially broken my main.

nicbet.1820:

And you know, I’ve actually helped many lower level and inexperienced groups with dungeons. I’m not an elitist jerk because that’s my personality. It’s the only way for me to make dungeon content at least a little bit fun right now ;-)

nicbet.1820,
I do understand there is times everyone wants an experienced team. I have been playing on-line games sents dail-up with Quake 2. I am no super pro. I pretty much hold my own. But there seems to be some players that think everyone should know from the first run in exp mode you should know everything and there shouldnt be a learning curve. Just gets really old seeing some ppl telling others they need to learn to play. Everyone in this world is diffrent and have diffrent skills. So your really good at video games. That doesnt give you the right to knock other players that need longer time to learn.

I dont really care about if there is waypoints. It does make it a challenge. Just saying that with some of the heavy hitting Bosses there needs to be some give somewhere for the lesser skilled players. I waited 2yrs for GW2 to be released. Just hate to see it die because an upgrade that doesnt make sents.

JUST add team chat would fix it all. That way under skilled players can learn on the fly and not die so much without being flamed all the time. All these elite players that cry about how easy the dungeons are. I bet everyone of them are on vent with there guildies. Sure its alot easier when u can talk and explain while playing. But not everyone wants to join ur guild and get on vent and hear all ur drama all the time.

This updated was just uncalled for at this time. Maybe if they would have released part 2 first instead of part 1 first. Someone got it backwards.

I think I forsee problems with the no “res-rushing” issue as it will create a longer time spent in the dungeon. If every downed player has to waite to be ressurected (leaving the players left fighting at a dis-advantage), it kind of takes the fun out of the whole instance. Bosses are too strong with too many henchmen to NOT “res-rush”. I’m not saying that bosses should be nerfed, I’m just saying that even with a well balanced team and good/great teamwork, waiting to be “rezzed” will become a serious issue.
Now if we could have teams of say 6-8 players in the instance (maybe determined by the dungeon level) then your no “res-rushing” idea may work. I’m just a single player here speaking for myself from a players observation standpoint.

Libertys Knight.4520:

nicbet.1820:

And you know, I’ve actually helped many lower level and inexperienced groups with dungeons. I’m not an elitist jerk because that’s my personality. It’s the only way for me to make dungeon content at least a little bit fun right now ;-)

nicbet.1820,
I do understand there is times everyone wants an experienced team. I have been playing on-line games sents dail-up with Quake 2. I am no super pro. I pretty much hold my own. But there seems to be some players that think everyone should know from the first run in exp mode you should know everything and there shouldnt be a learning curve. Just gets really old seeing some ppl telling others they need to learn to play. Everyone in this world is diffrent and have diffrent skills. So your really good at video games. That doesnt give you the right to knock other players that need longer time to learn.

I dont really care about if there is waypoints. It does make it a challenge. Just saying that with some of the heavy hitting Bosses there needs to be some give somewhere for the lesser skilled players. I waited 2yrs for GW2 to be released. Just hate to see it die because an upgrade that doesnt make sents.

JUST add team chat would fix it all. That way under skilled players can learn on the fly and not die so much without being flamed all the time. All these elite players that cry about how easy the dungeons are. I bet everyone of them are on vent with there guildies. Sure its alot easier when u can talk and explain while playing. But not everyone wants to join ur guild and get on vent and hear all ur drama all the time.

This updated was just uncalled for at this time. Maybe if they would have released part 2 first instead of part 1 first. Someone got it backwards.

I have to disagree with that, far better to have one month of ‘hard’ dungeons that can be tested and tweaked by the player base (both players figuring it out and devs getting data about what doesn’t work, but should have), instead of a month of face-rolling dungeons with NO data because everyone won no matter what they did (and what they did would always be the laziest, fastest thing possible).

Silidus.7985:

I have to disagree with that, far better to have one month of ‘hard’ dungeons that can be tested and tweaked by the player base (both players figuring it out and devs getting data about what doesn’t work, but should have), instead of a month of face-rolling dungeons with NO data because everyone won no matter what they did (and what they did would always be the laziest, fastest thing possible).

Then maybe they should have focused on fixing the glitches and the farming. Going though walls and ceilings 3 in 1 runs. It only takes a few days of an update like this to push paying customers to a new game. It wont take but a few days of nothing to do but troll the zones looking for events to kill a game. Then what are YOU going to do ? Play ur dungeons with only ur guilies because there isnt anyone left that cares ? You will leave soon after because u dont have anyone to look down on .

I’m out. Talking to a wall gets old. enjoy

Libertys Knight.4520:

Then maybe they should have focused on fixing the glitches and the farming. Going though walls and ceilings 3 in 1 runs. It only takes a few days of an update like this to push paying customers to a new game.

Fickle people are fickle, and will come back when they realize that everyone else is still having fun.

If you want an example of a game that listened to its player base, check out “Tabula Rasa”.

Other than that, enjoy the game, have some fun, and always be open to learn new encounters and teach them to others.

Apparently, if you’re dead, your resurrection bar will decrease if your corpse takes damage.

I died in AC in the trap corridor, and a trap kept spawning underneath me, taking large chunks out of my bar as my teammates were trying to resurrect me. We were laughing about it in vent at the time, but this in combination with the waypoint limitation is going to seriously hinder most (if not all) groups in dungeons. It’s also going to significantly decrease any fun that could be had, especially with any inexperienced players.

Dungeons are usually my favorite part of any MMO’s PvE experience. However, after playing through all of AC’s paths several times, I almost never play dungeons in GW2. It does not seem to be worth the experience or drops unless you are already level 80 and have nothing better to do. And why make a dungeon accessible to level 30 players when you need either very good gear or a few level 80 players to complete it in a timely manner? In my small amount of experience, dungeons in this game are far too difficult and do not appeal to the casual player in ANY way. I do not have time to find a very experienced group to run dungeons regularly with and i certainly do not have the time to get killed over and over playing with other lvl 50 noobs like myself. This new waypoint system will only exacerbate my problem. Edit: Also, in path 1, if you are killed by the stairwell with the fire, you can’t rez. One of my party members got stuck on the stairwell and could not rez because of the new system. We were stuck trying rez him for 5-10 minutes.

Pro: Alpha has less HP, Destroyer is slightly less kitten. Thank you.

Cons: Bugs bugs bugs. I’m not sure if the programmers are having a fight with the QA team but every patch you guys (who ever is responsible for ensuring content was tested and working as intended) messes up. It’s so bad I can only see it as being done on purpose to prevent people from speeding through your lack of content.

If aNet really wants to keep this, they should either make ressing defeated players take the same time as ressing downed players.

I seem to recall Robert mentioning that this anti-res-rush plan was meant to go into effect along with the addition of more waypoints to the dungeons and a diminishment of the high hp silvers among the trash mobs that don’t add anything but boring and pain.

Is this not the case? Have additional WPs not been added? If not yet, I could imagine Twilight Arbor being a HUGE pain right now.

kevinWilson.1784:

If aNet really wants to keep this, they should either make ressing defeated players take the same time as ressing downed players.

I guess a really good way to solve this would be making the first res be super fast, but take progressively longer if you continue to get killed over and over. This way, the occasional mishap goes largely unpunished, but people would still be discouraged from being careless.

Arenanet i would please suggest like a dungeon finder or dungeon group maker system because for players like me that love dungeon PVE it is always hard to find a group.

Phadde.7362:

I’ve read though 2 pages of replies and alot of you seem to think that removing Rez-Rushing will make some dungeons alot harder.

This boggles my mind! Didn’t you read the whole post by Robert Hrouda?

“Phase 2 of our dungeons evolution will see a lot of changes to bosses and enemies. We plan on taking a good, hard look at the health values and mechanics of our elites and bosses, and in turn how we reward players for their time investment and risk. This will include looking into every boss in our dungeons and seeing what we can do to enhance the gameplay experience in order to make more memorable and strategic encounters.”

They’re removing Rez-rushing with all it’s flaws and tweaking the encounters so that the benefits that the mechanic used to provide won’t be necessary!

Is phase 2 out now? Is phase 2 ready? No onboth counts, thus phase 1 shoud never have been rolled out. By the time phase 2 rolls out the LFG/PuG community will be destroyed, thanks alot Anet devs. You just destroyed the biggest part of the community, believe it or not the guilds hwo runt ogether are a SMALL FRACTION of your community.

The downgrading and making higher levels WEAKER in dungeons really sucks … the dungeons are hard at the level one does them, but the downgrading has now been made absolutely appalling and we have no power whatsoever, we have been made so weak.

The Bosses reset far too easily, and the last boss (Mesmer) in Sorrow’s Embrace now spawns loads of adds in the space of 10 seconds, 2 every 5 seconds of not just ONE member, but of the entire party … and they are not easy to kill either. Not to mention the thief was invisible 95% of the time except when he was hitting us, and calling in extra adds.

Please fix this at least.

Dear Updaters,
From what you can see (read) mostly everyone has agreed on the same thing. I really want CM dungeon armor but this mechanism is terrible for those who want dungeon armor. Rez-rushing was a great thing to most of us and it’s crucial to have it for most of us. Please delete this update so we may have fun again.this is also unfair because the people who already have dungeon armor didn’t have to deal with this issue. So please, allow rez-rushing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

from Guild Wars 2 player
Percius (Leroxes)
(PS, If you are not the updater then you do not need to read this if you don’t want to.)

Lerysh.8173:

DichaLimao.2157:

So does this mean that we cant go to a waypoint if we’re dead in a dungeon, as long as there’s someone in combat?
So do we have to kill Lupicus in Arah, for example, at the first try or the boss will reset?

You have to kill him or he will reset. This has basically always been true, but WP zerging has allowed for 1 or 2 skilled players to carry 3-4 less skilled. All the hate on for the no WP while party in combat doesn’t seem to realize you can still raise your ally. If someone falls, take the time to get them up.

What does it matter if a couple of more skilled better geared players semi-carry others, and show them something they might not normally see? That way the more skilled show others that it can be fun, and enjoyable, even when something is more challenging than a game where gear is generally thrown at you.

Gussy.3907:

If this has already been said, just add mine remarks to the chorus:

1. If no res-rushing, we need faster revive times or better revive buff

2. Before, I might have said something about bosses being over powered (and/or over armored) and how it seems every underling is the equivalent of Lvl 80 veteran but last night we finally found the right team mix mojo (balance) and had one of our most successful dungeons yet. It was still tricky and we all were defeated at one point or another but it was the “easiest” I ever remember a dungeon being.

So I guess this is evidence in Anet’s favor: the right TEAM, can be very successful even in tough situations.

So back to the “Right Team” approach … how wonderful and a point of FAIL FAIL FAIL … the whole not needing a specific TEAM to actually do instances is down the drain … and a lot of people will be unable to get groups or able to get into instances again. Thank you for the Fail on something definitely NOT in ANet’s favour. … Messing up random grouping.

Myste.3291:

Gussy.3907:

If this has already been said, just add mine remarks to the chorus:

1. If no res-rushing, we need faster revive times or better revive buff

2. Before, I might have said something about bosses being over powered (and/or over armored) and how it seems every underling is the equivalent of Lvl 80 veteran but last night we finally found the right team mix mojo (balance) and had one of our most successful dungeons yet. It was still tricky and we all were defeated at one point or another but it was the “easiest” I ever remember a dungeon being.

So I guess this is evidence in Anet’s favor: the right TEAM, can be very successful even in tough situations.

So back to the “Right Team” approach … how wonderful and a point of FAIL FAIL FAIL … the whole not needing a specific TEAM to actually do instances is down the drain … and a lot of people will be unable to get groups or able to get into instances again. Thank you for the Fail on something definitely NOT in ANet’s favour. … Messing up random grouping.

Bing, this person get’s it. Before this change, you could have a group of 5 condition damage based necromancers…and they could still gett he dungeoun done by use of a few mid fight wp rezes.

You will never see that happen now.

So muchf or that “play the way you want” mentality they had going huh? So much for that “every group is viable” mentality they used to advertise their dungeoun designs.

THAT is how dungeouns should be tested byt he in-house crew. 5 people all the same class and same exact spec. If the dungeoun is not doable int his manner, your dungeoun has failed and needs redesigned. YOU advertised things this way, now you have to back up those words and never alter that design concept.

You want harder things? Add in a hard mode path or two to each dungeoun. Then you won’t have destroyed entire parts of the community. This change destroys community, it doesn’t add to it.

Dear Devs,
Allow me to share my most recent experience in dungeon delving with you and how it was affected by the recent update; a PUG of CoE, Story Mode.

None of us had done the dungeon before, but we were all experienced, level 80 characters, and we had a walk through up. Things went as normal through most of the dungeon; some people dropped, we revived them while they were DBNO, ect ect.

Then we reached the end boss. Stage one took some getting used to, but we all cleared it without a problem. Then there was stage two; dodgy boss with an unblockable shot that can one shot you down.

This is where my problem with this update began. Even as a seasoned player, being new to the dungeon, I could not accurately read his forecast for the insta-kill shot, and got downed. A teammate picked me up, and I got shot again. Busy keeping themselves alive, no-one had a chance to revive me, and I died. A bit later on, someone DID manage to revive me from dead, when I came back with ALL MY DEATH PENALTY, dodged a shot or two aimed at a teammate, took one shot, and promptly died again due to death penalty. So much fun sarcasm.

Let’s look at the breakdown of that fight, just step 2 of 3 of just the end boss.
a)If he hits you, you are downed.
b)If someone tries to revive you, they are immobile and unable to dodge his shot. They are down.
c)If he hits you while you are downed, you are dead.
d) If you are dead, you cannot participate in the fight. You cannot return to the waypoint. You must wait for someone to revive you (see b above)

Now this is me as a seasoned player. When my less experienced, less skilled friend goes to do this, how will they feel?

You created the DBNO state so that players could always feel like they were helping out, even at the brink of defeat. By instating the no waypoint system, you are doing the exact opposite.

Silidus – Could you stop adding opinion posts and “omg i was the hero and killed everything kay” stories. This is comments from players for the devs – this is not a thread marked “heres how you should play kay?” There are a crapton of disgruntled players and you’re obviously just riling them up and saying l2p. Let themspeak without being called idiots.

A story from AC Story last night –
Five of us, in a party levels ranging 32-80, were doing pretty well through out it. We got through most of the bosses no problem, yeah we had a few deaths, but only maybe one per battle and we were able to get them up.
Okay.
Fast forward to King Adelbern.
We start it off, and at first it seems all is normal. Then out of nowhere one of our eles (me being the other one) gets hit with thrown blue fire and immediately goes down. Add in the aoe fire he so enjoys and the ele is out. Another player goes to revive, gets some of the health in before having to dodge away. I go in to heal, and am also forced to dodge away, but I still get hit and am downed. Mist myself behind a pillar and heal up.
When I come out every other party member is dead.
That makes me the sole player alive (at least Eir and Rytlock were still there and attacking…)
So I’m dodging around, making judicious use of my heals, water, and dodge ability, and after about five minutes of alternately healing, getting pulled in, dodging backwards, starting to heal, and having to dodge away the moment I see the red aoe circle, I finally get one up.
Factor in having to go behind pillars sometimes where he couldn’t see or attack me and I’m honestly mystified how we didn’t lose aggro. Did I miss that somewhere in the patch notes?
Well, the person I rezzed AGAIN gets 1-hit-koed, leaving me to do more dodging, rezzing etc. Finally, I get two people up and we can get the rest of the party, and by that point he’s at 1/2 health from the 3/4 he was when they all died, so we beat him, all alive. (I would have used my glyph of renewal, except that it seems to work only on downed not fallen players in dungeons.)
So yes, its possible to rez your whole party when you’re the sole one left. Is that possible with some bosses, even most of them? I highly, highly, doubt it.
Could I have died so he reset and we all went at him again? Yes. Would it have been more time-effective probably? Yes. But again, I’d place Adelbern as the exception, not the rule.

I would say it’s much harder to get a dungeon pug group if you are not:

Level 80
Have full exotics
A flavour of the month profession

Pretty much totally against what has been fun for the last 5 months in dungeons. Might as well make all dungeons level 80 content only, at least then the drops won’t suck. Booyah!

I think that you really went too far on the CoF path 2 in making the part before the Cathedral extemely difficult with the spawn rushing magg and then the assassins being able to almost kill him in 1 hit

Heh, I’m new to the game… was basically looking for a game that you PLAY, not study and work at. Everyone said this game was relatively easy and I’d love it…and it is a great game…very stingy with money, gear, and craft ingredients for new players with nothing to “tweek” with, but still very fun and mostly soloable and you don’t even have to group if you come across a group mob…just join in.

My concern is that when I finally get high enough level to start doing dungeons, that “fun” and “challenge” will be “enhanced” to the point that they will be the same old raid scam put out by everyone else….go and wipe over and over and over, spending a fortune in “enhancements” until you finally win …but have to repeat it 30 times to get anything, still wiping most of the time unless you find a gifted leader with the patience of a saint and various outside programs downloaded.

I just usually like to play these games for years and hope that difficulty and repetition don’t become overwhelming so only dev types and their hardcore friends can enjoy the game.

Myste.3291:

Gussy.3907:

If this has already been said, just add mine remarks to the chorus:

1. If no res-rushing, we need faster revive times or better revive buff

2. Before, I might have said something about bosses being over powered (and/or over armored) and how it seems every underling is the equivalent of Lvl 80 veteran but last night we finally found the right team mix mojo (balance) and had one of our most successful dungeons yet. It was still tricky and we all were defeated at one point or another but it was the “easiest” I ever remember a dungeon being.

So I guess this is evidence in Anet’s favor: the right TEAM, can be very successful even in tough situations.

So back to the “Right Team” approach … how wonderful and a point of FAIL FAIL FAIL … the whole not needing a specific TEAM to actually do instances is down the drain … and a lot of people will be unable to get groups or able to get into instances again. Thank you for the Fail on something definitely NOT in ANet’s favour. … Messing up random grouping.

this is exactly what I was thinking post patch as a very good PuG failed miserably at CoF path 2

way to D3 GW2 devs

and to answer gussy, some of us don’t have the opportunity to keep at the same area/instance over and over again because we work full time, you know have kids and other responsibilities……

No word from Anet in six pages? I was just curious about the feedback on our thoughts

Ok, first off I understand people wanting more difficulty, but this is a casual MMO so why ruin the experience of casual players? Can’t you add a difficulty option?
Add some sort of insensitive like Easy:0% Magic find, Med:2% MF, Hard:+5% MF?
Sometimes I do not have 2 hours to spend being careful when running a dungeon.

I also find that people who welcome the change are lv 80s running a lv 35 dungeon…
It’s a lv 35 dungeon, it is going to be easy for a lv 80 even with the lv scaled! Again, why cant it have been a difficulty option? As it is, a party of lv 35s will wipe. This will demoralize people who didn’t rushed to 80.

And good luck for lower lvs getting a party now. I would occasionally see someone only letting 80s join the party on even the most lowest lv dungeon before the patch, now almost every party I see want’s nothing but 80s.

Here is an idea, if you need more difficult content for all the lv 80s, why not MAKE NEW CONTENT rather then raise the difficulty on low lv runs.

The lion’s share of defense in this game is about avoidance, not soaking damage.
There is no level or armor requirement for the things that really keep you alive. Any party leader that doesn’t know enough about the game to understand that, isn’t a leader you want to be following.

Amazing how this happens over and over…most devs are ex-hardcore raid leaders that got their dream job, they are gifted players usually and to them “challenge” is the only thing that is fun. If you don’t wipe a few times, the game is lame. The game concentrates more and more on the super hardcore till that is all that is left since normal players start feeling inadequate, especially if their gear or twitch or build or guild is questioned everytime a group forms up.

I LIKE a game where a PUG can do about everything if they pay attention…and that’s without questioning anyone’s “build” or equipement.