Guild Wars 2

Raven.3248:

So i was reading everyone moaning about the wp change.
IMO i feel that dungeons should not be easy, it should only be for people that can play.
The PUGs should first learn how to play in the open world and WvW.
It should discourage PUGS from using the LFG so that I and others will only find people there worth playing with.
Also it will make dungeon gear better than exotics and say something to others.
It will also make DM so much more satisfiying

….. EXACTLY the horrible sort of disgusting sickening elitism we do not want rearing its ugly vile head …

Telling people who want to learn, but dont have your 24/7 style of play to keep out of instances … seriously … we PAY FOR THE GAME …. so why should we not be allowed to also see the stuff we PAID FOR???? What a horrible person you sound.

How insulting to say PUGs keep out of instances … learn to play (always what bad players fall back on) in the Open World and WvW. … NOT EVERYONE LIKES PVP … why should they be forced into it? And there is only SO much you can LEARN alone in the Open World … how ARE others supposed to learn the mechanics of Instance Bosses when people like you who HAD the opportunity of learning thanks to the HELP of others … refuse and go all Elitist on them?

I read out your post to 5 people, and they were all utterly disgusted at your attitude. I hope others will be too.

Myste.3291:

….. EXACTLY the horrible sort of disgusting sickening elitism we do not want rearing its ugly vile head …

No offense, but why do you put so much energy into nonconstructive posts like these instead of actually seeking or giving advice for dungeons? Some players are doing fine, and some aren’t. The difference is just in the willingness to learn. Res-Rushing was not going to stay, and it’s definitely not coming back. Please tell me a single MMO where you can still res-zerg encounters? It made GW2 feel unpolished and crude.

Furthermore, just because you paid for the game this does not entitle you to everything. It’s like saying, “Why can’t I have my Legendary for free right now? I paid for the game!” or, “Why am I waiting in queue for WvW? I paid for the game!” You are saying the same thing about dungeons.

You paid for access to the MMO; nothing else. What you do with your access is entirely on you.

Developers,

The negative feedback you’re receiving is because you’ve taken away something that affects the difficulty (read: increases) of ALL dungeons whilst only adjusting for some. On this note, I have a few suggestions for future updates:

1) Please speed up the reviving of dead players. I am not a programmer, but I’m sure that somewhere in the code is a line that says (if reviving defeated player, X health per second per reviver). Just make it 2X, although X^2 would be greatly appreciated

2) The transition from reviving to dodging. Others have mentioned the significant delay due to the stand-up animation. If we are to constantly revive players, then we need to know that as soon as we hit that dodge key our toons will haul kitten .

3) This is a general suggestion on future updates that remove features – please give us something that balances out whatever it is you’ve removed. This is distinct from patches that fix bugs, as bugs were never an intended feature. With this dungeon update, you’ve decided that something shipped at launch did not suit your fancy and removed it without introducing anything to fill the void.

Furthermore, you yourselves have acknowledged that mob and boss behaviour in dungeons need work. WP zerging was one way of dealing with these encounters, and here we stand with no fix to the problems and having lost a method of coping.

Thanks for reading.

Anet is killing their own game thats what I think of your patch. Before the game was released lots of promises where made about it not being a grind, and being available for casual and hardcore players. Now that is a really hard part because you can in no way satisfy both in my oppinion but you guys are topping it off by killing it for both slowly.

Hardcore players obv want everything best and need to grind for it in some way. As im in between, I say fine with me, got the legendary after a couple months now. Not the first with it as im not that hardcore that I would have it within 1 or 2 months but I finally got it. Same for ascended gear, takes a while but we get there.

Suddenly tier6 start to become available everywhere, same for lodestones and everything that was hard to get. Thats where your hardcore followers worked hard for and now see a lot of their work gone to waste. More important though (for my personal interest that is) you will find something new to appease (or try to) the hardcore players which will make the run start all over for the more casual players. New grind, new items, new something to grind on if you want it, STOP DOING THAT, it creates more trouble than it fixes.

Most important problem are the dungeons. You set out for guild wars to be about guilds, but also community and teamplay. You canNOT however also combine this just like casual and hardcore. It needs to be friendly for both. Aside to the guilds still not having recieved much of an update yet which is SERIOUSLY need for a game called GUILD wars the biggest problem comes to teamwork/community in dungeons.

I started grouping after the patch and seen buckets of ppl kicked due to lack of a couple dodges. I tend to be a little above average in most dungeons, so wasnt my turn to get kicked YET. But even I miss dodges, some bosses more than others (trust me I kick kohlers but in AC though). It is however no fun, if you get stuck in a dungeon, have to quit because its simply to hard only because 1 or 2 players are not that good at it yet.

Without healing and tanking mechanism, we need the respawns to make it work at some points, or someone who goes DOWN should be invulnerable to AOE and AGRO because ress time is simply S*** at some point. AOE’s that go over the whole map, need to be dodged, but down players just die and hey, we now have a bucket of ress time. No problem yet, if the player ressing didn get bashed in his face while doing so and not being able to dodge.

Also nice example is volcanic fractal. 30 AR yet the imbued shaman thinks I look like a great target. Arrow → dodge, fire aoe → dodge, arrow → in my face, random fire patch → dodge and then 2 more arrows in my face which i cannot dodge. I go down, get another fire patch under me and die within seconds just because at some point we need either a certain group (guardian/mesmers for reflect) because it works BETTER than with other classes.

I liked the whole no bulls*** with needing healer or tank or certain classes. Easy for grouping thats for sure, but now it just gets annoying or we still need certain classes. Apparently without being able to dodge enough, the fun becomes annoyance rather quickly as a little skill at dodging and skills (even got healing shouts) just isnt enough but becomes WORK rather than play time.

When you said dungeons would be changed, I expected a proper change so I could expect going back there and having pugs in there, and group with my lower level guildies. In this case STORYMODE might have better rewards for returning players because some ppl just cant get their story’s done unless guildies help them. Instead you say kitten you to the lower level and ungeared players, kitten you to Casual PUG players and most of all HAHA L***** to everyone who believed the promises of a community feeling.

Don’t get me wrong, I enjoyed playing with a lot of people in dungeons, but unless someone is being an A******* kicking should NEVER be needed, and its a shame Arenanet doesnt seem to grasp the importance for 90% of the players in dungeons. Having fun, not a long drag and ppl getting left out, and especially not such a bad update after so much waiting.

I thought after wintersday event with tixx & apocalypse and an average difficulty jumping puzzle that you guys where starting to get the point. This patch dissapointed me more than ever and just made me decide I wont be spending time in dungeons (and thus pretty much in game as I got bored with WvW due to those bloody free transfers and now huge Ques) untill this is changed.

If it doesnt, im done. But hey who cares, should need more skills in dungeons otherwise you arent worthy of the blue’s and greens dropping 90% of the time! Go get some MF gear so you will get kicked…. At least you got yellow drops….

Silidus.7985:

NO. Each ‘profession’ is viable in every ‘ROLE’, but you must still have a team that covers every ‘role’ to some degree. (support, control, dps).

Actually I believe even the selfish players will rez you now. Selfish players want to get stuff done faster, and 2 maning a boss is pretty slow. It is now in a selfish players best interests to rez you as soon as your down, and help to keep you in the fight.

1.All i said is not about what you think or believe. it is about what anet announced when they were releasing the game , about their goals and the fact they are turning away from them after few months. DOABLE BY EVERYONE excludes too-hard-for-pro-teams-only. Laying dead waiting for revive if possible ( try to revive ppl at alpha on p3 or p2; or even more have a stupid d/c in the middle of fight with it.) is the opposite of " a down system where you either pay for a WP either wait for revive" .

2. What you believe is irrelevant because i already said what happened to me today – i laid dead for 30 min while 1 team player tried to solo the alpha! So don’t tell me what would selfish ppl do. Also for the last day i had 3 parties with rage-quitters ( that never happened before to me, not even once). Beside the should be doable in may ways not only by selected classes with special builds – it kills the fun . If i prefer to play with daggers the game should be doable with daggers not forcing me to play with sword or bow. Or maybe i should gather iron with daggers?!?!

Also many of my friends don’t have all day and they log to play just for fun for 2-3 h, 2 days in the week. So you suggest they should gather onion and herbs!!?! because they don’t have the time to learn?!?!
I agree that dungeons are hard enemies are tougher, but making ppl waiting for revive ( if revive is posible at all) , is a way harsher punishemnt for small errors and in my case sudden d/c, so my complain is only about the WP changes. Everything else was perfect.

Worst patch to game ever. The game was fine before this. Thanks for ruining the game for me and many of my guild mates. Bye

Nokaru.7831:

No offense, but why do you put so much energy into nonconstructive posts like these instead of actually seeking or giving advice for dungeons? Some players are doing fine, and some aren’t. The difference is just in the willingness to learn. Res-Rushing was not going to stay, and it’s definitely not coming back. Please tell me a single MMO where you can still res-zerg encounters? It made GW2 feel unpolished and crude.

Furthermore, just because you paid for the game this does not entitle you to everything. It’s like saying, “Why can’t I have my Legendary for free right now? I paid for the game!” or, “Why am I waiting in queue for WvW? I paid for the game!” You are saying the same thing about dungeons.

You paid for access to the MMO; nothing else. What you do with your access is entirely on you.

If I wanted free legendaries I would go back to WOW (which I left precisely because of the freebie legendaries being thrown about) …. I am not, and nor are the many OTHER posters who are upset at the cavalier changes by a company who promises one thing and has changed it, asking for free legendaries, … but we DO have the right to the CONTENT that we have paid for.
I do not see how this is “non-constructive” … many others express their dissatisfaction, ONE person blatantly tells us to go play outside in content which once the exploring, hearts, events, are done, leaves not much else to do, and THOSE, the MAJORITY of players, have the right to explore and learn all the content too, which INCLUDES Instances, not just wandering about …

Myste, your access to the content was never taken away. You can still zone in and kill mobs in dungeons. The only difference now is that your party actually has to work together, instead of next to each other.

Myste.3291:

If I wanted free legendaries I would go back to WOW (which I left precisely because of the freebie legendaries being thrown about) …. I am not, and nor are the many OTHER posters who are upset at the cavalier changes by a company who promises one thing and has changed it, asking for free legendaries, … but we DO have the right to the CONTENT that we have paid for.

No, you don’t. You paid for access to the game. Nothing else.

Look at it this way: If I bought the game, but then stayed at level 2, am I allowed to complain about not being able to do Citadel of Flame? Why won’t anyone invite me? This is unfair! I paid for the game!

You are essentially saying the same thing. You paid for the game, but what you have access to is entirely up to you. It doesn’t entitle you to high ranking in sPvP, it doesn’t entitle you to being able to lead an army around in WvW, and it doesn’t entitle you to res-rushing your way to victory dungeons. You can earn all of these things if you put the effort into them; or none at all. The choice is up to you.

Interesting thread reading the mix of responses to this recent patch. For me, I just started taking my level 80 toon into dungeons this past two weeks. As a player, I was beginning to get bored wandering the plains and doing the events in Cursed Shores. Anyway, another friend and I (before this patch) found GW2LFG.com and got hooked up into a dungeon raid into CoF path 1. During that first week we hit CoF path 1, path 2, TA, and FoTM level 1. Both of us were delighted and found new a side to the game that encouraged us to explore more dungeons. Since the patch, we’ve done CoF and I must say the changes are very discouraging. We are both casual players and the runs aren’t nearly as fun. If someone goes down now in the party, the person who is attempting to rez gets taken out more often than not. Seems like way too many restarts and it is extremely annoying that you can take a boss down to almost death, and then for some reason a reset is needed you reenter and the boss is back at full health again. Isn’t it possible for the game to remember the bosses health from the last fight instead of healing it back to max? Anyway, the two of us won’t be doing any further dungeons until something changes since for us it is no longer any fun.

Silidus.7985:

Talissa Chan.7208:

Silidus – Could you stop adding opinion posts and “omg i was the hero and killed everything kay” stories. This is comments from players for the devs – this is not a thread marked “heres how you should play kay?” There are a crapton of disgruntled players and you’re obviously just riling them up and saying l2p. Let themspeak without being called idiots.

Translation; “Please stop posting anything that doesn’t agree with me or my opinion”.

Honestly, I am trying to provide positive input and counterpoints to a lot of the ‘slippery slope’ arguments going on on this thread. Dev’s have asked for feedback, not for ‘only negative feedback’.

Personally I think the changes have made a great improvement to the game, and have created some extreamely positive experiences for me, as a player, and I am sure for many many others. The Devs deserve to know that.

Yeah… Silidus. You mean well, but stop responding to other players’ opinions. Leave the feedback for the devs, and them alone. Those with negative opinions are not here to engage in argument with you; they are here to leave a notice of complaint with Arenanet. It is very condescending to hear this from you, “That was the first, constructive response I have seen… thank you.”

Nothing about giving feedback when asked for it requires engaging others in debate to defend your stance. You’ve got every right to speak your mind, and Silidus has the same right to speak his.

Vox Hollow.2736:

Nothing about giving feedback when asked for it requires engaging others in debate to defend your stance. You’ve got every right to speak your mind, and Silidus has the same right to speak his.

Then I guess I can also make suggestions for you and Silidus to be silent… you know, free speech and all…

-Res rushing: I dont think it should be the way it is now because to me its not the lack of teamwork, its better stradetgy to have people come back and get there to help. Some of the bosses are as tough as they need to be so taking that away is kind of not needed.
-Banking karma: We should be able to bank our karma like we do our gold. I think it should be accessable to all your players and not just individually spread out.

Please tell me a single MMO where you can still res-zerg encounters? It made GW2 feel unpolished and crude.
1. Guild wars was promoted as a diffrent MMO ! So stop comparing it to all others. Really feels GW2 is slowly starting to convert to just like all other MMO’s . There going ot just keep nerfing and run it down into the ground just like CoH . I guess there was nothing learned from CoH and GW1.

Res-Rushing was not going to stay, and it’s definitely not coming back.
2. Who said its not coming back ?

It’s really sounding like a few of the ppl posting here that are all for the new update are really Devs under a diffrent name.
Silidus.7985 = Robert just trying to make the case for taking out the res-rush. Not heard one word from Robert on any of these post. Been 2 days

I would like to reiterate. The basic idea of this patch could have been a positive change. However, because it was not well thought out at all there have been very negative and likely unintended consequences. Supposedly the goal of this patch was to improve the incentive for players to cooperate and utilize real combat strategy. Instead, more often that not, it has left me dead even longer while I watch helplessly as my allies struggle and fall. Please Anet, explain to me how that promotes teamwork. You have made it impossible for teammates to revive a fallen comrade in so many cases and now you’ve made it impossible for that player to return to help save his allies. It’s almost cruel.
I am a healer and support player by nature. I’m happy to have to constantly dodge and constantly revive if that is necessary but I am not pleased with being completely rofl-stomped when I even attempt to revive an ally. Nevermind the selfish players that simply don’t revive allies out of laziness. I WANT to revive allies. I WANT to help. You’ve made it even harder for me to do that to the point that I am on the verge of rage-quiting. PLEASE make revival mechanics more effective for dungeon combat. PLEASE give me some way, even if its more difficult, to come back and aid my allies so that one selfish player can’t hold us hostage for 15 mins while they goof off. PLEASE STOP making half- assed changes like this that ruin a social player’s dungeon experience. You thought you were making things better for players like me and you absolutely made it worse. Not cool. NOT cool.

Wanna do something better than the Rush-Res?
Just put a timer like 30 seconds before using a Waypoint, this way would make the Zerk-Res not available and would be make some dungeons,that are impossible, possible.
Don’t forget that guild wars 2 is not only made only for Hard core players, there is some casual players that really loved dungeons but now impossible to even try to do anything for them, try to fix this dungeon thing otherwise it will became another elitist game just like WoW.

Yeah, this new WP crap is only gonna hurt many players in the game. First of all they won’t be rezzed, with the threat mechanics the mobs usually target healers or people rezzing. I know everyone will just try to finish the boss with 4 players than rez a defeated one. See it so much already which is what’s causing the WP rezzing, duh! It takes way too long and you become vulnerable while rezzing someone so it’s a wasted effort. So the players are just gonna lose out on the boss loot and become more discourage than they already are. Also there are bosses with abilities that can one kill players or incapacitate them and repeatedly attack the incapacitated player until they are defeated anyway.

You may know your game but you don’t know MMO players or how they run dungeons. Also now the dungeons are just as difficult as the Fractals, so why even bother with the dungeons anymore. Heck I’ve been in so many groups that just run through the mobs and avoid them only to run to the next boss. We will always look for an easy way around the mechanics now matter how stupid they are and this one is really stupid!!!

I for one have just given up on the dungeons, they are just stupid now and don’t even bother ding the dailies anymore, that’s gotten all messed up too.

You want people to enjoy the game yet you make them have to do stupid stuff all the time. I mean I might only have a few hours to play the game, I want to enjoy the content not run around during that short time trying to accomplish the dailies. You’ve definitely geared this game towards the ones with no life that can sit and play this game 24/7. Those games tend to drive people to other MMO’s lol. So it seems your goal is to reduce the player base and hope the remaining ones spend lots of money buying gems?

Lerysh.8173:

DichaLimao.2157:

So does this mean that we cant go to a waypoint if we’re dead in a dungeon, as long as there’s someone in combat?
So do we have to kill Lupicus in Arah, for example, at the first try or the boss will reset?

You have to kill him or he will reset. This has basically always been true, but WP zerging has allowed for 1 or 2 skilled players to carry 3-4 less skilled. All the hate on for the no WP while party in combat doesn’t seem to realize you can still raise your ally. If someone falls, take the time to get them up.

If someone falls, you don’t always have the time to get them up. If I fully die, I want my team to just finish the objective, not die in the process of rezzing me, which is the most likely outcome. I’ve run AC more than anything else, and I realize now I actually have to build a team, not just randomly add the first players to tell me they need in a group. As another member stated, yes, some groups can push through these dungeons without a problem, and I have been on these, but I’ve also been on groups that can barely make it past the spider queen, much less the rest of the run. I am not apposed to fixing the wp zerg, but I think the concensus of this forum is that Anet should make the random teams just as capable of accomplishing the dungeons as before, either by nerfing certain parts of the dungeons, or by changing them all together. honestly, imo, adding wp zerging back in is the most effective way to fix this, at least for now. maybe change it back when all the patches are ready to go, and put them all in at the same time.

Way to go aNet… tonight was the first time since the Dungeon Update that I’ve had a chance to get in to do some Exp Paths… you always seem to find some way to take a nice relaxing dungeon run and completely “F” it up. I will reiterate (for those new to GW) GW1 permasin nerfing, 600/smite nerfing, etc. Except this time… you didn’t need to nerf any skills… you just revamped the whole dungeon mechanic for height/reach invulnerability… k thnx… you ruined another peice of the game I used to enjoy.

I was running the “Sorrow’s Embrace” dungeon and informed the person recruiting that I was a new player and had not run the explorer mode, but I did watch a walk-through video. They said that that was fine and that they would let me and the other new person know what to do. They did not communicate what to do till after we had already died. They were complaining about getting the dungeon done before the reset and said it was our fault for it taking an hour instead of twenty minutes. I was kicked after helping them defeat the three final golems and got no reward. I was very honest and upfront about my experience with this dungeon and I am rather disgusted with the behavior of these players. I paid the same amount of money to purchase this game as the players who bought it at launch and do not think that I should be penalized or abused for not buying it sooner. It’s hard to be a new player on this game when the established players are not helpful and have no incentive or encouragement from Arena Net to help new players.

This whole patch (assuming the following ones will be adding WP and boss adjustments) was all done in the wrong order.

When you learn to ride a bicycle you first start with 2 side wheels to make sure you don’t fall. Then you remove one of them to get the hang on the balance issue and, when you start to get it, you remove the last wheel.
Hopefully by then you won’t fall too much since you had time to adjust and learn how to balance yourself on top of your bicycle.

In the game the rez rush worked much like those side wheels and they should never been removed without any other priority changes.
Boss adjustments should come first, this way they could monitor if rez rushing was still being done and the causes that lead to that usage. This would make some fights trivial at first but it would be a necessary evil to avoid issues like Subject Alpha and some deaths due to knock backs and lava.
Then, and only then, they should add the new WPs and stop rez rush mechanics.

This way would be far more friendly to the community and if even some bugs resulted on this 2nd change we would be understanding of the matter. Like this it just feels that the changes were rushed to appear that something was being done while in reality they have no idea what they’ll be doing next.

ok rezrushing did make it easy, but now it is way to hard, please correct this, also you could make some more training dungeons, i would like to see some 2,3 and 4 player dungeons ranging from a level 10, 20 and 30 for example with minimal loot and a good story focus, link a mini adventure focused on teaching players how to work as a team by using pressure plate puzzles and other simular mechanics as well as teaching new players about different game machanics like a dungeon tutorial, the issue being overlooked is how do you make your build to be able to assist other players and still hold your own in a fight, making builds have never been my strong suit and i am starting to feel a bit lost and frustrated

in conclusion i feel some story based tutorials would help players learn and ajust to changing game mechanics and some lower level smaller dungeons that are story focused would be fun

A respawn timer would have fixed the res rush just fine. Or move the way point away from the current boss so its more of a pain. Currently to many bosses have near instant kill attacks and huge health pools making pugs fail about 50% of the time. Now its even worse after the last few trys I will ether level alts tell its changed or only run with level 80 that know what they are doing.

In-ability to self revive back to a nearest waypoint is sort of an annoyances. Makes story mode not fun and too long.

I have 8 slots of character, every single one we have to go thru the same thing. Imagine it. It’s more like a pain and chore. Only WvW and PvE is fun. Ac Dungeon is still horrible, full of bugs and extreme damage spikes.

I will stop myself from spending any more real money for gems due to this so I don’t support Arenanet.

Ascalonian Catacomb is the worst dungeons for a Lv30-35. It used to be fun before this current patch. Just the bugs with Detha that is the problem. This removes the option and anyone that have done Story mode to help out others and participate in the story dungeon.

Please revert back to the old feature. We like the game to be challenging, but also not to be too grindy or a rinse and repeat when all dies.

OnoGhost.6019:

I was running the “Sorrow’s Embrace” dungeon and informed the person recruiting that I was a new player and had not run the explorer mode, but I did watch a walk-through video. They said that that was fine and that they would let me and the other new person know what to do. They did not communicate what to do till after we had already died. They were complaining about getting the dungeon done before the reset and said it was our fault for it taking an hour instead of twenty minutes. I was kicked after helping them defeat the three final golems and got no reward. I was very honest and upfront about my experience with this dungeon and I am rather disgusted with the behavior of these players. I paid the same amount of money to purchase this game as the players who bought it at launch and do not think that I should be penalized or abused for not buying it sooner. It’s hard to be a new player on this game when the established players are not helpful and have no incentive or encouragement from Arena Net to help new players.

I totally agree with you ! What Arena did now, with this patch, will force people to rush and not participate with new players in story mode. Coz time will be wasted with viewing the video.

I’ve done a few dungeons since the change and I have to say, it’s a pain but not due to the lack of waypoints. Fix the resurrection system, fix your bosses and their aggro and then you’ll appease a lot more players. Takes too long to res someone and bosses get a bit too aggro happy on people you’re ressing. I’ll probably be back again if I have more feedback aside from my first post.

AGAIN …. take this out ! trust me , you guyz are ruining your own game .
i’m a die hard dungeon player so i know my dungeons ….. still NONONO
think about this plz Anet ! dungeons(where) the most fun thing to do in the game .
you guyz just took it away from EVERYBODY ! ..casual,hardcore,skilled & learning players alike.
anyone who says different and they honestly 100% love this ? i REALY cant believe these guyz :o
FIXX IT BACK pleeeeeeease

Don’t like the waypoint update. I think it is one of the most stupid changes, especially since ressing someone who is dead is usually useless since it takes a lot of time, so practically, in some dungeons, it kind of means: Please, everyone die so we can reset and try again.

Often it is more convenient to waypoint to a location. Let say you are getting the flaming scepters in AC expl. and some are close to the exit, and one on the other side. To waypoint they will have to wait for the others to be outside a fight. If you run in random groups, it can be hard to get people to cooperate and wait for everyone, and if some starts running and is constantly is in battle, the ones slacking can’t waypoint, but is sure to be blamed. Can cause frustration for those new to certain dungeons.

It might also take away the courage for those new to dungeons if some are not able to stay alive, maybe causing the full party to be wiped and reset the bosses. Should at least be possible to waypoint when you are dead. It is just stupid to have to wait for everyone else to die in a bossfight to be able to get back up.

Are there any indicator to see if anyone else is outside a fight? Or do I actually open up a map and try to waypoint to see if everyone is outside a fight? This is not very convenient either.

Those who are more used to certain dungeons will now probably look at achievements before adding others to a party, so it might get harder for those who are newer to the game to find a party. It might also cause more frustration between those who are new to dungeons and the experienced ones when playing together. This might cause in kicking players or rage quitting.

I agree with most of the posts that I have seen here so far, and refuse to set foot in any dungeon again until this serious problem has been resolved. I have always done very well with my guardian in dungeons, but I want to be able to play with more than just a heavy class in dungeons again.

Anet, please stop killing your game. Many people have already left the game as it is and now, and I can’t believe that I am saying this after such a short time since release, but I along with a number of my friends are looking into other games to leave to. And based on the past 20+ years of gaming if I leave a game, not “take a break from”, but “leave”, I have never come back to those few games that I have left in all those years. This game is quickly becoming a candidate to become a member of that short list.

Thank you for fixing fractals! Also, being able to respawn while your party is out of combat is very helpful. Especially when you fall somewhere you can’t get back from and your party can’t get to. Now we don’t have to commit suicide, we just have to wait for them to run back.

Silidus.7985:

Hi Castrella,

The game design was flawed, and encouraged players to just keep DPS up while expecting their teammates to res and run back. No teamwork, no interaction, no comradeship. There is still a problem with some fights being too difficult under the current mechanic. Hopefully these can now be addressed properly now that players are forced to attempt the fights legitimately.

Hi Silidus, thank you for the suggestions (and for being nice about it), I really appreciate it. I will look on my Necromancer skill tree and see if any of those traits are unlocked yet (I’m only level 46). I’ve only been playing the game for a month, so any suggestions on how to improve my gameplay are welcome.

That being said, I will take a wait-and-see attitude regarding dungeons. I think the developers have the right intentions, though I don’t know if their implementation will work when you take human nature into account. Statements like, “dungeons. . .should only be for people that can play. . .so that I and others will only find people there worth playing with” don’t exactly bode well.

I really want to minimize my exposure to this kind of attitude, because one thing I love about this game is how developers designed it to be collaborative rather than competitive. It’s the first MMO I’ve played where people are, for the most part, kind and helpful – and this shift in attitude is due to the game’s design. It’s a refreshing change. I don’t want my experience to be ruined by elitist types, so I think I’m going to stay away from dungeons for awhile.

As an aside, I find some of the comments towards the developers in this thread to be outrageous. It’s possible to provide honest, constructive feedback without being cruel. Two founders of another well-known gaming company resigned because of the stress inflicted on them by “player feedback.” Developers are human beings who worked fracking hard to create this game, and are NOT evil minions who are out to screw us – nor are they our personal servants who are required to do our bidding at the snap of a finger. They are artists who are emotionally invested in their creation. They are doing their best to be loyal to their vision while trying to please their player base, and these can’t be easy things to juggle.

I understand why they made the changes they did. If these changes continue to result in “no teamwork, no interaction, no comradeship,” they’ll keep changing it until it does. ArenaNet has challenged the “trinity” and have provided us with an innovative new paradigm that hasn’t been done before in an MMO – and isn’t that what made the game so intriguing in the first place? That kind of risk takes guts – and it will take time to iron out the kinks.

If you want to see changes in the game, make your case without being obnoxious about it (because honestly – when customers are nasty to you at work, how motivated are you to help them?).

I just say one thing.
The new WP system in dungeons is Orrible!!
If someone die it’s over!
Cmon Anet do a step back

well people sey it over wen soom gos down to red bar it over becous every singel mob turns arund and kill the red line person thad why it over soo thad why the new wp system dont work for soom dungeons the shut fix the A.I frist soo it wonde go for the red lined person and kill him off and i am dylexic soo dont sey any ting abut my wriding most pigest exambal is lupieas when soom gos down to redline hes dead and game over u dont have tiem to res him becous lupies gos on him and hits him to full dead in second and soom one who will try to res him end up dead 2

All I’m going to say is that you tried to fix something that wasn’t broken, the developers didn’t intend for us to play through dungeons that way, they’re not the ones who have to play through them. Even if they test through them, they know everything about the dungeon, it isn’t an accurate portrayal of how the player feels while playing through that content.

Payne.1250:

Crucible of Eternity is now impossible …. if someone die in your group vs subject alpha, it’s over.

No. Last time I ran CoE, 3 people died on the last alpha in CoE2, ended up duo’ing him.

Subject Alpha + the new system = impossible.

Conveniently forgetting his HP has been nerfed to the point he’s a joke.

Alpha is not hard, all you have to do is time your dodges, CJ.

Wow, I had not anticipated that much hate.
I actually like the change, not because I’m trying to be elitist or anything, but because I really hate rez-rushing. It’s a graveyard-zerg, it’s not fun, its expensive and stupid.
The dungeons I tried so far after the patch were cof, ac, ta – the “usual ones”^^
The event on path 2 cof is great! I loved it. I did it in a pug, one player was totally new to the path, the others were not. It took us 2 tries, on the third we did it. Seems fairly balanced to me, we were not on teamspeak or anything, it was a random pug, someone inexperienced in the group. On path 3 the not being able to revive player in lava is really annoying, though.
AC actually seemed easier than usual, TA was not a problem as well. AC was a guild group with teamspeak, TA was a pug.
Still have to try CoE, used to love that dungeon, hope I still will^^

I am just glad that I am done with Arah dungeon and hope I won’t have to go back. I died so many times killing Lupi back then. Now they are changing it so you can’t even way point unless your allies are out of combat? This is a HUGE change. Nevermind balance, but how exactly is this fair for the people that done it before this patch? Now the newcomers will have a much harder time doing this.

And for those didn’t know about Arah Dungeon, you meet Lupi like 2 hour after entering certain paths. So if you can’t kill Lupi, your whole previous hour is wasted.

I killed Lupi many times when farming Arah for the Arah armor. I don’t recall even once that no one died at all when fighting him. But players managed to way point and run back to finish him. Can’t do that anymore.

So this is the way dungeons are meant to be played? Absolutely zero mistakes allowed or party wipe? Seriously? What game is this Dante Must Die? This is way too much they are asking for a PUG. So now PUGs are dead and only guild groups and elites can play dungeons in this game. Actually even guild groups and elite would die because Lupi can easily one hit kill you if you aren’t a tank class. So correction only guild groups and elites using warriors and guardians can play dungeons. >_>

And dungeons are meant to be farmed. You need multiple play though to get enough for your armor or weapons. Arah is more than hard enough as it is, with some paths taking over 4 hours to complete. I remember when GW1 was young I failed many times at Elona Reach. But hey I didn’t need to pay for repairs. And after I finish that mission once YAHOO I am done with it. I do not need to go back to farm it.

They better seriously boost resurrection in this game. Ressing people in dungeons is very tough when facing Lupi. And now you cant even way point and run back to him.

Seriously how are they going to make Hard Mode in GW2? Even so call normal mode is nearly impossible for a lot of players. Many mobs are already one hit killing players. What will it be in hard mode? Enemy runs 33% faster and attacks 50% faster and their projectiles flies 100% faster? Even Spartans will surrender. >_>

BTW I finished Winds of Change Hard Mode in GW1. I got Xan Hei’s Resolve. So I know what I am talking about, difficulty wise.

I had played GW1 since beta. It should be obvious to most people that GW2 dungeons are much worst than GW1 dungeons and missions. Much much worst. Every single GW2 dungeon is like Dante Must Die, with mobs that has a billion billion hp and one hit kill. In GW1 you only see these kind of mobs in Shiro or the Lich. Actually NVM they even in hard mode do not one hit kill you. Not to mention in GW1 we got stuff like Empathy to take out these 1 billion billion hp bosses. Now in GW2 every single no-name mob in dungeons are stronger than Shiro and the Lich in GW1, with more hp than the stars in the sky. But me and my guild endured GW2 dungeons. But now they are even worst.

Castrella.9817:

That being said, I will take a wait-and-see attitude regarding dungeons. I think the developers have the right intentions, though I don’t know if their implementation will work when you take human nature into account.

THIS!

So I hope Robert reads this thread and takes the right conclusions. The patch certainly was well intended, but except for a few (ok, we do not have statistics, but just from own experience and all the testimonies seen here), most people do not welcome this patch. And with this, even those that are not easily demotivated and would even try to go for the new challenge, simply will not be able to do so because of the fact that they will have a hard time finding groups that have infinite frustration tolerance and don’t mind wiping the whole team for a couple of hours until all 5 mates execute a 10 min boss fight without a single millisecond error by anyone …

And for comparison with games that did not allow rezzing you exactly saw this attiutude “tank dies – flame the healer, healer dies – flame the tank, boss reset, flame the one with lowest dps”.
The nice thing about GW2 was that in the past such flaming rarely happened, but with the new patch the – “flame anyone who misses a dodge and goes down” and more often than not rage-kick has become the rule and not exception.

So please either roll-back the change or quickly (but very quickly) fix the balance of the encounters (some suggestions were given, e.g. making combat rez faster / more feasible by changing aggro behavior etc.) unless you really want to see the dungeon exodus continue …

Payne.1250:

Copy/past :

Crucible of Eternity is now impossible …. if someone die in your group vs subject alpha, it’s over.

Subject Alpha + the new system = impossible.

Awesome Arena net, Thank you for ruining our pleasure, continue like this, freaking genius

Nokaru.7831:

Myste.3291:

….. EXACTLY the horrible sort of disgusting sickening elitism we do not want rearing its ugly vile head …

No offense, but why do you put so much energy into nonconstructive posts like these instead of actually seeking or giving advice for dungeons? Some players are doing fine, and some aren’t. The difference is just in the willingness to learn. Res-Rushing was not going to stay, and it’s definitely not coming back. Please tell me a single MMO where you can still res-zerg encounters? It made GW2 feel unpolished and crude.

Furthermore, just because you paid for the game this does not entitle you to everything. It’s like saying, “Why can’t I have my Legendary for free right now? I paid for the game!” or, “Why am I waiting in queue for WvW? I paid for the game!” You are saying the same thing about dungeons.

You paid for access to the MMO; nothing else. What you do with your access is entirely on you.

Think about what you are saying.

Bosses have a billion billion hp and one hit kill non-tank characters.

Ok so against something like this people should LTP? Get better?

ONE mistake by ONE of you PUG members, when you are trying to kill that billion billion hp boss, will lead to party wipe. And once you wipe, that billion billion hp boss will be fully healed.

Prove to me how PUG is not totally 110% dead after this update.

So for me to succeed, I better look for a elite guild and force them to play with me, even when they are busy doing something else. Or start adding my own circle of elitist friends.

I just wanted to say that I am extremely disappointed in Robert Hrouda for allowing the dev team to kill off possibility to complete the even-numbered fractals at 50+.

Waited for this update in the hopes that I could finally get friends and guild-mates to help me catch up to the other super-high level fractal players, only to find out that the “stupid jade maw agony” (a mechanic that is impossible to avoid during the phase changes) has now been made “even stupider” (I’m not sure if that’s a word, but the statement fits.)

How could you Robert? Why???? I had so much faith in you, you were like Eminem in “Without Me,” that superhero that was gonna save the business. But the kryptonite of apathy and politics….ahh…my hopes and dreams for guild wars 2…crushed

Another thought on dungeons meaning for coordination;

GW2 lacks an in-game voice based communication system. For guilds, such communication can be done via vent, mumble, or teamspeak, so no problem there. However, for the PUG, no such option readily exists. What we then have is the need to communicate with our non-voice members via text, something that cannot be done real time during the boss fight. Yes, it can be explained prior, but the flash insight (“He’s charging! Dodge now!”) cannot be done. So you will have deaths.

Before, these deaths were no big deal. They were annoying, and they cost a new player a little bit of gold for repairs, but the players were able to rejoin the action and learn from their mistakes. Now, it’s a whole lot of sitting on the ground, or getting the boot for being a “newb.”

You may not have seen it as coordination, but PUGs had their own form of coordination. People new how to tackle dungeons, and how to learn from their mistakes.

Twitchiopolis.2397:

Another thought on dungeons meaning for coordination;

GW2 lacks an in-game voice based communication system. For guilds, such communication can be done via vent, mumble, or teamspeak, so no problem there. However, for the PUG, no such option readily exists.

It is actually not a problem to quickly ask for IP and be 2 mins on desktop to enter another guilds TS or similar (on Riverside DE, we have a world TS where anyone can join).
However, while this improves a lot, it will still not save you from wipe if someone fumbles but once in certain bosses …

So while it is a good idea, I wouldn’t rate it Prio 1 (maybe after all other bugs and exploits are fixed and bosses are balanced) …

Kelly.5293:

I’m kind of disappointed in the new WP only if out of combat thing but will give it a fair shake.

I don’t mind taking people of lesser experience through dungeons including from my guild. It helps boost moral, gives us something competitive to do as a group other then a boring heart completion. It pay’s off and is more exciting then being bored to death farming. Now i question if people and some of my good friends will even get into groups.
Oh and that CM . . . . Should be a bit higher recommended to enter or eased up a bit. I’d rather go fight Lupi then CM. Guess I haven’t gotten the hang of that one yet.

I remember that in my very first run on CM I was greathfull to have some experienced players in the group. They helped me get trough and yes, I died a lot, but I learned.
To this day I wil rarely deny a request if someone wants to do story mode or exploration and tells me they have no experience with this dungeon. I consider it my way of saying thanks to all that helped me in the past and it’s fun.

With the recent adjustments I’m afraid we’re going to see people get turned down and have their GW2 adventure ruined.
WP’s are almost always far away from the place where you died. So it allready takes a long time to get back to the action (including repairs). Your team is allready handicaped at that point. Do you think we have an advantage? Fine, give us a cooldown at the wp, 30 seconds will do fine. Now we have to lay there untill the boss/mob resets or we get a total party wipe out. And no, we can’t be revived by the others, they’re most of the time too busy trying to survive themselves. Errr…not fun.

Helping others has always been one of the great parts of this game. I’d hate to see that ruined by a mere mechanic

Otherwise this is still a great game. Help us keep it that way.

greetz,
Blakharaz/Nekateph

Zerg-rushing is a really dumb thing, particularly in a dungeon, I’m glad it’s been removed, but please now re-tune the kitten dungeon PROPERLY. Currently there are too many encounters that are ridiculously hard due to the removal of WP in combat. Some I would go as far as to say are impossible.

I’m all for forcing players to res each other during an encounter, it makes sense that this is the proper way to play, but I’m sick of seeing people dying whilst rezzing because mobs/bosses are immune to control and such. The problem is also because the threat/aggro mechanics in this game are a pain. It means that sometimes you might get away with rezzing someone whilst the next time you will not. Too random. But then I guess we could say that about the entire game……

I agree with a lot of people who hate this new system it is geared for the elitist not the casual gamer. I have played many online games over the past 8-9 yrs and then i found guild wars 2 what a refreshing change i thought to have a game where you are under no pressure at all to either do your own thing if you want. Then as i got into the game more me and some friends started doing dungeons, some of which were extremely challenging but doable under the rez rush system. This new system has stopped people like me doing dungeons because you cant rez someone fast enough and the boss’s agro comes on the person who is rezzing as well as the downed player so takes 2 people out of the play. I think for the elitist you should have a system like the fractels or have a 2 tier system were you can use the old system rez rush and the new one for elitist it’s a real shame because i love doing dungeons

Chaoleo.1854:

I am a healer and support player by nature. I’m happy to have to constantly dodge and constantly revive if that is necessary but I am not pleased with being completely rofl-stomped when I even attempt to revive an ally. Nevermind the selfish players that simply don’t revive allies out of laziness. I WANT to revive allies. I WANT to help. You’ve made it even harder for me to do that to the point that I am on the verge of rage-quiting. PLEASE make revival mechanics more effective for dungeon combat. PLEASE give me some way, even if its more difficult, to come back and aid my allies so that one selfish player can’t hold us hostage for 15 mins while they goof off. PLEASE STOP making half- assed changes like this that ruin a social player’s dungeon experience. You thought you were making things better for players like me and you absolutely made it worse. Not cool. NOT cool.

First of all – Chaoleo, I more than agree with you about healing, I have been a healer my whole gaming life. WOW – 7 years, with endgame hardmode raiding included, Aion – 5 years and Tera – 1 year. Healer every time.
The issue here is this game now has NO Healer, NO Tank. We are all supposed to pay attention and keep ourselves alive, it was supposed to have been made this way, to take the pressure off the Healer being shrieked at and blamed for everything. The Tank being called names because he lost agro briefly, and some moronic DPS got killed. We all help each other instead, we all heal, DPS and dodge and try our best to stay alive.

As to the "Selfish players that simply don’t revive allies out of laziness … no no no. I have not seen anyone being lazy. Take this scenario — Party 1 goes down, Party 3 goes to res him. The Mob/Boss/etc targets them and takes out Party 1 and Party 3 is downed too. Party 2 goes to help … and a vicious cycle ensues. … Most of the fights, if you stay motionless for 2 seconds, that means you are downed and most probably dead. And on bosses, that means dead, not just downed. Reviving takes around 5 seconds if only downed (that means 2 dead at least, not one) … Reviving from Dead is more than 10 seconds … that means definitely more than one downed and dead. Use the Subject Alpha fight. You get iced … that means downed, person comes to help, red circle means 1 dead if not up already, and whoever helps is downed … and then very quickly dead.
--———————————————————————————
Then on to things again – This patch has in the space of two days managed to destroy many guilds. We had a small guild with 5 of us running everything together. We levelled through the dungeons in the correct fashion, at the correct levels, we co-operated, we discussed, we were on TS, and we got through things with a very unlikely group. One person logged off two days ago and has not been back, two others say “Never doing another dungeon” … so where does that leave the others? So Nokaru, you say I would throw a tantrum for not being taken to COF at Level 2… when at level 2, I would not dream of being in that kind of instance. I don’t think any of the “casuals” expect to be carried, or to be thrown gear, but I do know the EULA do give us the right to the entire content that the game has. Our group puts effort in. I have five level 80s to prove that, and so do the rest of the guys in the guild, so how dare you say we did not, and shove people on a separate pile because they do not measure up to your elitist attitude.

I am really upset at this cavalier attitude – you don’t measure up to my elitist attitude, so go play in the open world. When the majority of us have plowed through the content of hearts, exploring, waypoints, points of interest, vistas … and yes that included going into WvW and doing everything there, including all of the events countless times.

ANet – please see what this is doing, it is schizming a community that was starting to build. Now already with the few “I am God, I can do it, but will not post a video to prove I did” Elitists, and the Many Normal people of all ages who just want our casual gaming community to grow. The Normals who actually will keep this game alive.
Done trying to talk sense into people who are determined to say “non-constructive” and then tell the majority to “go play open world” – Thank you if you do bother to read these posts, and actually see something needs to be done to fix things again. Bye.

One more thing … Put into place the choice at the start.

Do you wish to make use of WP Resses … Yes/No.

The Elitists can then say No and do their “I am greater than you” run. The rest can do as they wish.

Put into place the idea of 2 WP resses during a fight, with 15 sec penalty before being allowed to res, given that the WP are mostly at the beginning, they are still out of the fight for at least the 1 minute that it takes to run back.

Why has no anet rep responded in any way to this thread? What was the point?