Guild Wars 2

xHOODOOx.7693:

Why has no anet rep responded in any way to this thread? What was the point?

Sometimes Devs make threads, then watch them intensely rather than respond. Once a dev starts commenting, it’s hard to stop commenting without people being even more dissatisfied, and once a Dev is talking a lot they are basically directing the conversation even if they really don’t want to.

So I’m betting posts are being read, but they want to let the conversation go a bit more naturally to see what people tend to talk about and focus on.

Anyways: I remember reading more waypoints would be added, since res-rushing wasn’t as doable anymore? I can hardly wait. The example I have in mind is SE Path1 – The three golems can be a brutally difficult fight, and there isn’t a single waypoint between them and the start. Would you consider adding one to where Nokk (Singularities, AoE Confusion fields, knockback into the lava :c ) was fought?

It seems like enough space you couldn’t get back to the Prototype Golems before they reset completely (have to re-do the mined hallway), but it would save you the gauntlet you just punched your way through, which is now really long and boring.

EDIT: I read a few more of the posts in this thread, and I thought I might be an interesting data point to bring up. I am casual. Every dungeon run I have completed was with a group of strangers and no third-party communication. I genuinely think I prefer dungeons this way, since before we would get ‘stuck’ on a boss, but would try and res-rush him down. This lead to everyone kind of doing their own thing. Die? Revive and start running back. It didn’t matter if the run was a full 5 minutes long, with potential to get caught by a few mobs and make it even longer. We would all revive individually and try to make it back before the boss reset. And since we were Bad, it would force us to try and kill a boss with a group of 3, since two people were always running.

Now, it’s clear. If you mess up on the boss, it’s over, and you have to try again, together. It also gives the opportunity to take a minute, think, and try and find tactics. If the ‘correct response’ is to immediately revive and run, it’s hard for your casual player to also chat tactics with their group.

So the change is making us take discrete attempts at bosses, where we tend to change up our tactics (or at least make them!) and frankly I think it’s saving us time in the long run. I’ve done attempts on bosses that stretched out to be incredibly long, that we still lost because too many of us died simultaneously. In recent memory, it’s only taken two, maybe three attempts per boss.

As someone who has done as good as no dungeons; seems a shame that this update was pushed “across the board”. This is bound to cause problems in certain places, if you have to wait for a whole group to go down (not fun and extra penalty due to “downed” dmg).
Seems that it’s ended before it really ever started for ppl like me. Another point: We are going to have real problems getting into a team and are basically barred from getting the anti-agony gear ,because you ain’t gonna get into fractals either, for exactly the same reason.
Altho the reasons are pretty obvious, don’t quite go for the semantics behind it.

CHIPS.6018:

Bosses have a billion billion hp and one hit kill non-tank characters.

One-hit bosses? Which ones actually do that? The only bosses I know that legitimately one-shot people are in Fractals Level 40-50+.

Bosses don’t have “billions” of health. I doubt anything in this game has close to a million at the moment. I’ve seen Champions die in under 15 seconds with the right group composition. (And Time Warp) Many people are not specced optimally for damage. Maybe you have a Magic Find Leech in your group. Look inwardly before blaming the encounters.

CHIPS.6018:

Ok so against something like this people should LTP? Get better?

ONE mistake by ONE of you PUG members, when you are trying to kill that billion billion hp boss, will lead to party wipe. And once you wipe, that billion billion hp boss will be fully healed.

If someone is Downed, come to their aid.

And just because someone is defeated, you have options. You can revive them, quite easily mind you, using an Ash Legion Spy Kit to revive them and the boss won’t even attack you; or you can reset the boss, running away, and then trying again. You don’t have to wipe. And you didn’t have to let him get defeated to begin with.

CHIPS.6018:

Prove to me how PUG is not totally 110% dead after this update.

Prove it? Ok.

www.gw2lfg.com

I see plenty of groups there. In fact, I can get a group for almost every single Explorable Dungeon in the game, within minutes. Contrary to all the doom and gloom everyone is posting on the forums, it isn’t the Apocalypse in these groups either. Whenever we are in the dungeon, we ask if anyone is new; if someone is, I’ll briefly explain what’s going on to these new people. There are very rarely any problems, and if they are it’s a minor inconvenience.

CHIPS.6018:

So for me to succeed, I better look for a elite guild and force them to play with me, even when they are busy doing something else. Or start adding my own circle of elitist friends.

Just because you are having issues, it is not a universal issues. Those that had trouble before are adapting, and I am actually seeing a noticeable improvement in the PUGs now, with players being more attentive to rescuing their downed teammates.

The dungeon developers spent a lot of time designing the boss encounters and events in these dungeons. I think it’s rather insulting you aren’t willing to pay attention to what the creatures do, and you’d rather just die, run back, and continue to die to the boss without knowing why you were defeated to begin with.

I think it’s very weird that players are not even saying what profession they are, because there are many people who would give useful advice and tips if you simply asked for that, instead of complaining that you don’t like the change. There’s always something new to learn for everyone.

Soraya.9165:

I understand that the pro-dungeoners or even the players who love a huge challenge see this as at least another challenge, and something new to test their skills

From what I see on youtube videos, this change has no impact on the pro-dungeoners as they are quite capable of speed clearing the dungeons or skipping most the content without ever going down. This change effects the casual player that doesn’t run dungeons for profit, they run because this is the only way to get the exotic dungeon armor. My guild trys to help everyone to get the armor they desire. For those who want a huge challenge let them set their own parameters when they run. No one is forcing them to use a waypoint. They can always agree that they will not use waypoints and will rezz one another when they go down.

Many people have complained that the new dailies were implemented before the ability to choose which ones you want to do, resulting in being forced into a playstyle they don’t desire. It may have been better to balance the dungeons before implementing the waypoint change.

There are bosses that will target two people that are close together or where the space in which you fight is confined, while the AoE circumfrence is so wide and plentiful that the boss can easily hit multiple players. Especially those trying to rez a downed player. This can be tricky to evade while trying to rez a fully downed player. For those who are newer to dungeon runs, this can make it more difficult for them to get runs or even alter their desire to run dungeons.

Skills have been nerfed so that you cannot rez a player that is fully downed, so you must catch them when they go down. Didn’t ANet say they didn’t want you to have to watch the groups health bars? Hence no trinity. Well now we have to, constantly.

This change has only made it so that players lose momentum, because now they either have to get out of combat and allow the NPC to fully heal or risk being downed because a downed player is in a really bad situation. Like when Detha over agroes ghosts. Most of us already try to pull the agro to ourselves to allow a downed player to heal themselves, but each situation is different and sometimes it is best for a dead player to hit the waypoint instead of forcing the others to quit combat or wipe.

My guild specializes in helping those that are downed. As a former Monk, I can’t see a person downed without trying to rez them, but sometimes its nice to have a waypoint. Now we don’t even have that.

Wasn’t it sufficient that we have to repair armor and run ridiculous lengths of path (in some dungeons) to even get back to our party.

I think people are confusing some of the issues here.

Skilled play should be more rewarding than non-skilled play.

Specifically in dungeons this means skilled players completing hard encounters, managing to complete instances quicker than non skilled players etc.

The problem with the new system is that it punishes non skilled play to such a degree that instead of a mistake costing say 5 minutes of a team’s time, one mistake can easily add 30 minutes or more to a dungeon or even cause a team not to complete the instance.

This has a knock on effect that the vast majority of more experienced players will look to only play with people of equal experience. If you had a choice, would you let a level 35 or a level 80 play with your group in Ascalon Catacombs? Or someone with green gear instead of exotics? How about engineers, rangers and necros compared to warriors, guardians and mesmers?

Without a safety net for newer players to experience dungeons and learn encounters the risk is splitting the community into dungeon runners, and non dungeoners. Most sane people don’t want to see content dumbed down, made brain dead or just plain skippable. However I feel this is too much of a swing, there are a few good suggestions in this thread.

So yes difficult dungeons are fine, just make them accessible. (Hard / Easy modes, make all dungeons lvl 80 to not encourage exclusion of lower levels in PuGs)

Space.8053:

I think people are confusing some of the issues here.

Skilled play should be more rewarding than non-skilled play.

Specifically in dungeons this means skilled players completing hard encounters, managing to complete instances quicker than non skilled players etc.

The problem with the new system is that it punishes non skilled play to such a degree that instead of a mistake costing say 5 minutes of a team’s time, one mistake can easily add 30 minutes or more to a dungeon or even cause a team not to complete the instance.

This has a knock on effect that the vast majority of more experienced players will look to only play with people of equal experience. If you had a choice, would you let a level 35 or a level 80 play with your group in Ascalon Catacombs? Or someone with green gear instead of exotics? How about engineers, rangers and necros compared to warriors, guardians and mesmers?

Without a safety net for newer players to experience dungeons and learn encounters the risk is splitting the community into dungeon runners, and non dungeoners. Most sane people don’t want to see content dumbed down, made brain dead or just plain skippable. However I feel this is too much of a swing, there are a few good suggestions in this thread.

So yes difficult dungeons are fine, just make them accessible. (Hard / Easy modes, make all dungeons lvl 80 to not encourage exclusion of lower levels in PuGs)

If a team wipes now, it usually means that they kittened up. Instead of rushing as fast as possible from waypoint to the boss, they should rethink their strategy. How did I die? What did kill me? How can I prevent it? Is that utility/weapon really need here? You should ask those questions instead of m->click on wp->rush to the boss->profit->I’m pro and this game is no-brain.

Is thinking the thing that separates skilled and non-skilled play? I thought that’s the thing that separates humans and animals.

Space.8053:

I think people are confusing some of the issues here.

Skilled play should be more rewarding than non-skilled play.

Specifically in dungeons this means skilled players completing hard encounters, managing to complete instances quicker than non skilled players etc.

The problem with the new system is that it punishes non skilled play to such a degree that instead of a mistake costing say 5 minutes of a team’s time, one mistake can easily add 30 minutes or more to a dungeon or even cause a team not to complete the instance.

This has a knock on effect that the vast majority of more experienced players will look to only play with people of equal experience. If you had a choice, would you let a level 35 or a level 80 play with your group in Ascalon Catacombs? Or someone with green gear instead of exotics? How about engineers, rangers and necros compared to warriors, guardians and mesmers?

Without a safety net for newer players to experience dungeons and learn encounters the risk is splitting the community into dungeon runners, and non dungeoners. Most sane people don’t want to see content dumbed down, made brain dead or just plain skippable. However I feel this is too much of a swing, there are a few good suggestions in this thread.

So yes difficult dungeons are fine, just make them accessible. (Hard / Easy modes, make all dungeons lvl 80 to not encourage exclusion of lower levels in PuGs)

Completely agree’d with your first statement, but you lost me after that.

The dungeons are based on skill, not level, and not gear. All your examples you described gear differences or lvl 80 vs lvl 35. I would always take a lvl 35 in blues that knows what they are doing over a lvl 80 in exotics that doesn’t have a clue (and isn’t willing to learn).

The thing most people seem to forget is that there are already hard/easy mode dungeons. They are called Explore Mode. Explore Modes are for skilled players who enjoy challenges and want to obtain useless, but visually striking armor. If you are not interested in a challenge, then there is a story mode which can be done for lesser reward, and involves more story and lore elements.

Ok, I have ran several dungeons in my time. And personally ressing someone in combat is way simpler than what people are making it out to be. Except on the bosses like the spider who will not leave a ressing party member alone. maybe a bug or something cause it doesnt always happen but it HAS happened a few times. Especially on the spider boss in TA. And we have ran TA so many times to get gifts of thorns, armor and what not for so many people in the guild its ridiculous. And the Ice giant fight in the fractals, is he suppose to go after the guy on the cat walk dumping fire on him for a debuff. It takes WAY too long to kill him while other fractal bosses take half and even three quarters less time with a well organized group.

My only complaint, is the fact you are making dungeons harder is the fact there is no armor progression for these said dungeons. They are all level 80 gear…kinda dumb, when you look at TA armor compared to Arah armor….only a few things change on the armor still the same numbers and Arah and CoF ar FAR more deadly than TA…and your making them harder?

Me and a few buds bought this game on day 1 and quit after getting to the 1st instance. We hated the idea of bosses being “zergable”. It really killed this game for us even though all of us saw so much potential here, but, without instances where your butt got handed to you, we saw no real motivation to improve how we played or the gear we wore. This has solved that 100% and I’m already back along with a few friends, the rest are still patching :P. Well played ArenaNet.

I felt the need to post here as I love to do dungeons and first let me start by saying I like the challenge of dungeons. HOWEVER I feel that unless there are 5 of me playing its less enjoyable because not everyone has the same skill level and I dislike having to spend 5-6 hours on one path trying to figure out what was wrong (or who wasn’t doing their job).

I also feel that the dungeons are WAY too hard if you want to do them at the recommended level. For example. I ran an AC story pug group yesterday (1-30-2012) on my level 30 warrior who had the best gear for her level. It was a extremely frustrating because I had to range everything down or get two-shotted. It was a VAST difference in damage compared to when I was questing and that was with equipping all my damage mitigation moves. Veterans in the world could barely do any damage to me but one silver can take me out in two shots with me using my heal? There’s something wrong with that. I remember we ran with 3 warriors (including myself) one at level 31 and one at 80 and a clothy class that was maybe level 65. We barely made it through the trash mobs. I had wanted to run AC exp (if any group would accept a level 35) but after that I knew there was no way I was going to be effective unless I was level 80 and had full exotics.

I think that there should be dungeon difficulty levels (similar to how fractals is). The harder the dungeon the more rewarding it should be. PuGs while interesting at times can be very frustrating and unforgiving if you get a bad group, its why I’m VERY hesitant to run a dungeon without a full (or nearly full) guild group as we have vent communication and work better together since most of us run dungeons with each other constantly.

I would also like to see a dungeon finder system implemented (no it wouldn’t ruin the community. Most of us use gw2lfg.com anyway) If there was an in game dungeon group finder I’d be more likely to pug since it cuts down the time looking for groups myself or waiting until I can get in one. Or mulling over the fact that I might get a bad pug. I’m an impulsive creature so if I can get into a group instantly I’m less likely to wait for a guild group as that may take some time. I would assume any dungeon finder would be quick as you wouldn’t need to find tanks/heals.

The new WP system also seems to overly punish layers for their mistakes.

Pre-update, dying had the following consequences:
1) Damaged gear, monetary repair cost
2) Time wasted, moving from the nearest WP to the combat.
3) Downed Penalty, typically resolved by he time you returned to combat.

Now, dying
1) Damaged Gear, monetary repair cost
2)Time Wasted, moving from WP to site of last combat
3)Time Wasted, waiting for other players to revive you, die, leave combat, or finish combat
4a)Lost loot, if the other players finished combat without you
4b)Time Wasted, if the other players leave combat or die (as the boss has reset HP)
4c)Chance at all of the above AGAIN due to downed penalty, if they revived you mid combat
5)Downed penalty

Problem is, if the boss didn’t one-shot you down in the first place, after being revived you are at a much higher risk for it due to your downed penalty. The “res-rush” tactic had a side effect of the downed penalty disappearing by the time combat was reentered (due to distances).

Pre-update, I had a friend who hated doing dungeons, due to the cost of repairs she would rack up. However, she would still do them with me. Now, she won’t touch them.

As mentioned before, this update is not effecting the elite dungeon runners; if you never drop, you have no worries about revival. Who it is effecting are those already struggling; people not familiar with the dungeons, people who make one bad error.

I finally was brave enough to try a pick-up group for a dungeon, with the new design in place.
Last night, I ran Ascalonian Catacombs, story mode; we were a pretty good group, actually, with 1 guardian, 1 mesmer (myself), 1 necromancer, 1 warrior, and 1 thief. A couple of the group had never done a dungeon before, and so this was their first experience doing one (I think it was my plaintive, “Oh won’t someone join us before we try and 4-man this dungeon?” that made them try it. They could smell the desperation).
We did have a disconnect, and one afk for a bit; we also had the Troll appear on top of a ghost mob, which was interesting (it ignored the ghosts, and targeted players exclusively). All told, however, even with all that? We were done in less than an hour.
The lack of being able to rez at a waypoint, when downed, killed us. Literally. We did ok, but the slow nature of having to rez someone when downed, with aggro not dissipating, was brutal. We were even fairly good with rezzing people quickly, but if you’re in a group where you’re being 2-shotted, there is no time for a “let me rez you before you go all the way down”. It’s not possible.
We had 2 total party wipes, once with the Lovers, and then once with Adelbarn. The Lovers I could understand, as it’s brutal (though the changes to the health bars of both of them were very appreciated); in both instances, the extremely slow process to resurrect a fellow player when downed was what did us in. With Adelbarn, when we saw how difficult the fight was, the last 2 party members backed off in an attempt to disengage the enemy, but Adelbarn did not reset. He didn’t reset until he’d killed off all the party members.
I am VERY hesitant to run additional dungeons, especially with pick-up groups, and without a clear sense of agreement and understanding of what needs to be accomplished when going in to a dungeon. Dungeons have lost all “Hey friends who are gaming after a long day of work and other obligations, let’s get on voicechat, and run a dungeon while we all catch up with each other!” appeal, as well as “Hm, I wouldn’t mind helping out this group of strangers who might be great to game with, or might be total tools. Either way, I’ll be helping someone!” appeal.
If the “rezzing a downed ally while in combat” speed could be increased? I do appreciate what the team was trying to do, by eliminating waypoint usage while in combat (and it makes sense from a story perspective, as if Asura technology prohibits people actively engaged in violence from using the gates, then it would make sense the waypoints follow the same thinking), but please-make it easier to rez someone you’re actively trying to help back up.

I also feel the need to address the “balance and group composition” arguments mentioned above.

GW2 made a big deal out of the legitimacy of every class, and the ability to play however you wanted without being punished. The concept of needing “a balanced party” or combats where only specific builds work is counter-intuitive to that original idea.

I’ve been playing Guild Wars since Factions first came out. I built a Ritualist, and I fell in love with the class. I accomplished everything I could; cleared every map and mission, normal and Hard modes, with just bots and close friends. Even managed to put away every dungeon. However, there were always a few areas just out of my reach, not because of my skill level, but because of my chosen class.

Since it’s release and my acquisition of the appropriate level of skill, I always wanted to clear the Domain of Anguish. However, finding a group as a Ritualist was impossible. If you speced for healing, you were turned away because you weren’t a monk. If you were speced for damage, you were turned away for an elementalist. In the end, I never did clear the Domain of Anguish.

The worry is that now, as we punish our weaker players, we will have much of the same. People will be turned away from groups because they play engineers or thieves, because their warrior is speced to tank, or their elementalist is using a staff instead of daggers.

I like GW2 for what it is; an unigue MMO that breaks the conventions of traditional MMOs. I don’t want to see that changed.

I think it would be very entertaining to get to fight a larger amount of smaller creatures and monsters, like a mob of enemies that vary in difficulty instead of just the one seemingly invulnerable hero-god that we face several times a dungeon. Maybe instead of having just the few enemies that are super buff, have them be strong, ya know, buff, but not incredible and leave a good amount of minions for their back up. It would look better aesthetically and play smoother. We have Guardians and Ranger pets for a reason, lets have some real fun in a dungeon.

Now that I think of it, certain paths are barely played and its hard to find a group for them (take cof p3, took me ages to find a group to do it with and finish it). Are we now slowly going towards all dungeon paths barely being played? One of the few things that was still fun…

I thought dungeons would be changed so PUGs, and low level players (hello lvl 80s only in AC, others get kicked 90% of the time?), undergeared players etc, get to join in making it more alive and perhaps a fun experience for everyone? If people get bored with it, give them a hardmode path or something which gives them a really painfull challenge they can work on for a few months.

At least wouldnt hurt new players who quick because of a lack in available dungeons for them.

Some may not agree with me, but I believe the story mode dungeons need to be separated out from explorable mode and significantly toned down with the upcoming changes. I always have, even if that means nerfing the already low rewards (if chest running is a concern).

Feel free to leave the challenge in the explorable modes. But please stop gating lore and story behind frustrating dungeon mechanics. If you call them “story mode,” allow us to see that story. Let it be a training mode for harder dungeons, if you must.

I’m a member of a rather casual guild. I haven’t run the explorables, but have consistently helped guildies complete the story mode dungeons for the sake of seeing the story (I’ve lost count of how many SM TAs I’ve run). This is pretty much the only way players can get the background on Destiny’s Edge (outside of reading the book). It’s sad that this experience is lost in the middle of struggling to balance gameplay for more elite players.

Our guildies are still learning. We try hard to make builds to support each other and don’t just zerg in with glass cannon DPS. Even then, I know a number of boss encounters that would have been almost impossible for us to beat with the new anti-res waypoint mechanic. With this change, I don’t know how many guildies are going to plow through the frustration of group wipes and boss resets, especially when bosses exist that can one-shot you in exotic armor (CoE, I’m looking at you).

Please keep in mind that not everyone is here for the speed run. You still have players who want the full experience, and just the chance to learn group mechanics, especially those who brave story mode. Give us a chance to see your lore.

Sincere thanks for your consideration.

Nokaru.7831:

One-hit bosses? Which ones actually do that? The only bosses I know that legitimately one-shot people are in Fractals Level 40-50+.

(cut the rest due to length restrictions)

Are you trying to claim that Lupi in Arah cannot one hit kill non-tank players? If so, there aren’t much left to discuss.

Of course bosses do not have billion billion hp. But the point is bosses in GW2 dungeons has tons of hp. Way too much. Nearly all dungeon bosses puts Shiro and Lich from GW1 into shame. And to make things worst we can no longer cast spells like Empathy on these bosses to kill them faster.

So you are suggesting that groups “gear check” on people before starting a dungeon, to make sure no one is using Magic Find items? Sorry but this statement is so elitist are aren’t funny. In fact why don’t Anet just remove Magic Find items, like delete them totally from the game, to save the rest of us the trouble? :P

By themselves, “one hit kill”, “billion billion hp” and “no res-rushing” isn’t too bad. But when the game has all 3 together, the game is nearly impossible for PUGs and casual. I am not talking about elitist and 24/7 gamers here. I do not care about them, because they are not the norm.

Sure you can revive people in boss fights. But you do know that for bosses like Lupi, res-rushing is the norm right? Even experts/experienced players tell people to res-rush before starting the fight. Why do you think that is? Because ressing people during Lupi is very hard that’s why.

Ash Legion Spy Kit will obviously be nerfed soon. That is not how the game is meant to be played.

I used gw2lfg.com myself all the time when I was doing dungeons. But guess what even back then finding a group take a while. And finding a group that works takes even longer. Some groups do fail, even before this patch.

You can know the creature inside and out all you like. It doesn’t change the fact that one mistake and you are dead. Most drivers knows how to drive inside and out. But they still get into accidents. I had killed Lupi many many times for the Arah armor. Back in GW1 I finished Winds of Change in Hard mode and got Xan Hei’s Resolve. So I am at least an experience gamer. But even I can see that this patch is going to ruin dungeons for PUGs.

Our guild has discussed for ages on dungeons in GW2. Our opinions on them has always been negative. For example Arah stoy mode (kill Zhaitan) has got to be the worst dungeon we has ever seen. That one has nothing to do with how hard or how easy btw. It just wasn’t fun at all and super repetitive and tons of deaths. This new patch has put many of us over the top.

GW2 dungeons stopped being relevant ever since they stopped matching mobs stats with players. Neither does mobs use the same skills as the players. In GW1 mobs are only slightly/marginally stronger than players stats wise, even in level 20 vs level 32. They also use many the same skills are players, so when a mob uses Meteor Shower everyone knows what the expect. In GW2 dungeons they are well over the top stat wise. They also use some crazy skills that you can only research on wiki. Honestly what kind of hero are we? Every single mob we meet in GW2 dungeons has like 10 times our hp and 3 times our damage. Why don’t we just ask those Risens to save the world instead?

The fact that certain dungeons mobs can just mindlessly auto attack and might still kill a player speak length about just how mess up the dungeons are. In GW1 at least the mobs need to use skills and spells to take out a player. In GW2 dungeons they just auto attack. And here you are lecturing me about designs? And you are wondering why players want to run past all the mobs? The fights aren’t fair or relevant at all that’s why.

rivalarts.2056:

My only complaint, is the fact you are making dungeons harder is the fact there is no armor progression for these said dungeons. They are all level 80 gear…kinda dumb, when you look at TA armor compared to Arah armor….only a few things change on the armor still the same numbers and Arah and CoF ar FAR more deadly than TA…and your making them harder?

Unless I’m misinterpreting you, there are “dungeon level” appropriate armor sets available to everyone from the dungeon vendors. However! I totally see why you would say that there are only lvl 80 armor sets because people generally avoid buying the rare armor set from the dungeon vendors. At least, that’s the impression I get. They do not have the same unique appearance (read “generic”) as the exotic set and they also cost dungeon tokens. Tokens are costly in some ways and using them on a throwaway armor set seems wasteful. Not to say that there aren’t any merits to the current layout for the vendors but that’s another discussion. Also, I think they only made all the lower level exotic sets 80 as part of a patch sometime after launch, no?

Anyway, on topic,

from https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/robert-hrouda-on-upcoming-changes-to-dungeon-mechanics/
“*What’s Happening in Phase 2?*

Phase 2 of our dungeons evolution will see a lot of changes to bosses and enemies. We plan on taking a good, hard look at the health values and mechanics of our elites and bosses, and in turn how we reward players for their time investment and risk. This will include looking into every boss in our dungeons and seeing what we can do to enhance the gameplay experience in order to make more memorable and strategic encounters."

I hear people complaining that they have not already moved into phase 2 yet. Phase 1 without phase 2 is tough on some people and not others, I get that. So, let’s keep the complaints constructive and move on to what I hope is a near future patch. I think most of us agree to something needs to be fixed or changed about dungeon encounters, let’s make sure phase two works out for all of us.

well better make p2 soon becous the p1 system isend good for soom fight like soom seyd fall dawn soom hall and your out of fight for the full fight

The level 50 cap on fractals is the worst thing you could do. I don’t see any goal anymore now, and probably many good (revive orbs buying) fractal players probably think alike.

Silidus.7985:

Also to everyone complaining about the ‘lvl 80 scaling nerf’, please remember this is a GOOD THING. Since 80s are scaled harshly down to the appropriate dungeon level, there is little to no difference between taking an 80 in full exotics, to taking a lvl 35 in full greens.

This is a GREAT change, it lets lower levels get in on the action and removes some of the elitist ‘80 only’ mentality when it comes to pug groups.

And to everyone complaining about ‘not being able to play how you want with a full team of 5 condition build necros’. The game was never intended for this, they never said you could easily clear all content no matter what you did (really? you wanted that?). They stated that you could clear with a carefully built team of any class combination… so 5 necros will still work, as long as some are built support, some control, and some dps… THAT is how it is supposed to work.

Try taking 5 necros with Jagged Horror in to face Lupi and let me know how that turns out.

Sleeme.5893:

The level 50 cap on fractals is the worst thing you could do. I don’t see any goal anymore now, and probably many good (revive orbs buying) fractal players probably think alike.

I speak for them— we do feel the same.

Our disappointment is pretty steep. It’s as though the previous thread Robert made was for us to fantasize that our feedback would get heard & some kind of balance could be struck, or at least maybe a conversation where we talk about ideas and what people like or don’t like.

But, nope, it’s like we said “The jade maw agony is stupid and isn’t about skill, which is supposed to be one of the major aspects of the game, or any game for that matter, along with fun.” Then the devs said “oh, it’s stupid??? No! You’re stupid!! Now you’ll never get past it!!! haha!”

Disappointed…..big time….

Talara.8053:

There’s one major flaw that I think hurts everyone in the new dungeon setup, especially for Twilight Arbor.

Removing the ability to use WP’s while the team is still in combat is alright, however, I think other things should change due to this.

For example, the first Worm that you face before choosing a path. Once DPS on the worm stops, he fully regens and the rest of the worms respawn. If an entire team wipes, he regens nearly immediately. This quickly turns this portion of the dungeon into a chore. Having to repeat this step over and over and over is a deterrent to this dungeon. If constant DPS is needed so that the Worm does not regen, the inability to use a wp while one player is still trying to keep him from regening is cruel and turns a fun experience into a horrible and frustrating one.

If we cannot use Waypoints unless the entire team is dead or out of combat, you really should look into changing the Worm. Make it so that he doesn’t regen his health when an entire team wipes (or the dps stops). Or at least put a time limit on the time he regens from the time the dps stops.

I couldn’t agree more. If you want to get rid of the wp zerg, fine, but at least make it so the bosses don’t regen. That is absolutely ridiculous.

We use to have fun as a guild going into these dungeons but now you have made it frustrating and almost pointless to go. You wanted to make this game so people of all levels and styles could play but now you will make it so people will be more picky and ignore lower levels and less experienced players. Wow, thumbs up Anet…..

CHIPS.6018:

Are you trying to claim that Lupi in Arah cannot one hit kill non-tank players? If so, there aren’t much left to discuss.

He doesn’t. You either gave him a stack of the grub buff, or you weren’t topped off. Lupicus only two shots at most.

You’re just wrong. Feel free to run Arah with me and you’ll see.

Lupine Blast can also be deadzoned, where it doesn’t do any damage to you at all. This a boss which has been soloed, by some people in under 8 minutes.

Essence Snow.3194:

What the WP change accomplishes

1) Less friendly PuGs and/or less pugs in general (why all the hate towards pugs?)
2) Groups finishing boss encounters while dead player remains dead being denied boss loot
3) Players less likely to help less experienced players in dungeons
4) Player mandated gear checking/title checking/ etc…

What good does this change accomplish?

1)Players with superiority complexes can feel better about themselves
2)I can’t really think of anything else…I simply don’t see the good in this

All in all this doesn’t really change things for groups that already had no issues with the dungeons. It doesn’t make it anymore challenging for them. What it does do is raises the barriers to entry for those who are new/less experienced/ and, or just well not as capable. How is that a good thing?

I have to agree with the above. One of the refreshing aspects of this game is the climate created by friendly, cooperative play. Unless they also change the dungeon content itself, the player population will divide as noted by the above poster.

I understand the intent of the changes (and agree with them), but the developers risk moving away from the original direction of the game by reducing accessability. I think there are other tried and true methods for achieving the intended changes to game play without alientating part of the player base.

The obvious being normal and hard modes for dungeons. Of course, story mode is supposed to be that to a degree, but I have personally found it difficult to find groups to play story mode. The majority of interest being in explorer mode.

The thing that concerns me the most is changing the amotsphere of players routinely helping players, regardless of the challenge.

Endgame elitism is a hall mark of most other MMOs. That was not the case in this game. I fear that changes to dungeon play, coupled with some of the changes to requirements in the dailies and monthlies, will create the kind of less helpful ambience found in other games.

guyz is it jjust me or did dungeons even get more CRAPPY LOOT ?!
since the patch was up i did CoE , CoF , AC a couple times to see what the difficulty changes where so badly . but …. realy i only got blue/green gear,etc…. in alllll runs :o
Like ,the hell is going on here ??? :s so they made the wp’ ressing GONE+ nerver even more in loot ?

+ guyz subject alpha is the iggest kitten and alwayz will be ! LOL :p even now ^^
never range alpha just melee him all close together , and CoE runs will take around 20 minutes. did it 3 times since the patch so havn’t got any harder etc… you just need to know how to play CoE
CoF also , path 2 i actualy did it also 2 times since and to e honoust …. it’s even EAZY’er :p LOL :p

But still the drop/loot chest rate etc….. are nerved ? cauze realy only got blue//green :’(
thats not fair

anywayz cheerz ^^ and kill alpha :p

The new WP system is freaking AWFUL.
Dungeons were the only things keeping me and my friends playing GW2 and you’ve ruined them.
Nothing Needed To Be Fixed. Change them back!!!!

I am someone who tries to keep an open mind and despite my reservations about the new dungeon system, I decided to give it a try this evening.

HUGE mistake. I will never, EVER get talked into attempting another dungeon in this game. I’ll stick with events, WvW, PvP, quests and gathering and leave the dungeons to the top 1% of players who can do it, because the difficulty is beyond ridiculous now that you can’t resurrect and run back and at at least contribute to the fight.

The entire experience wasn’t anywhere near fun. It was humiliating. It was frustrating. I contributed almost nothing, between dying, being rezzed, dodging and then dying again. Pre-patch, the PUG group I was in had no problem killing bosses and getting through it, because at least the people who were inexperienced could run back and make some kind of contribution (while learning in the process). You can’t learn while you’re dead and unable to do anything at all.

I tried several times to get the group to kick me. I WANTED to leave (but was staying out of politeness), but they wanted me to stay because they couldn’t get anyone else…so I spent my time as cannon fodder, lying there like a moron while the “You have been defeated! Lie there in shame, you ineffectual simpleton!” music droned a shameful dirge of my disgraceful deeds.

I ended up logging out after they 4-manned the final boss without me so I could have a pity-drink while staring out the window, contemplating the bottomless pit of my ineptitude. I play games to relax and have fun…not to feel like I’ve killed a kitten because I’m so fail at life. LOL!

Never. Ever. Ever. Ever. Again. Dungeons in GW2 make me feel like I did when I played Demon Souls – a game that kicked my butt so hard I had to trade it in to recover some semblance of what dignity I had left.

I’m not a “video game Olympics” player. I am average – not outstanding, but not incompetent. If this is what developers intended when making these dungeons, then I shall tip my hat to them for their success in making these the most difficult dungeons I’ve ever encountered….and I’ll stick to things I am capable of. Dungeons were insanely difficult before…now they’re just ridiculous.

The hardcore players can have the dungeons. I won’t even miss the content. You couldn’t pay me to do that again.

Ok so this is basically a big whine thread. I roll a thief and ever since I accepted the fact that being a melee thief is too much work I rarely get downed and haven’t been fully killed (aside from things like jade maw beam ) since my respec.
Love the changes to fractals as disconnects are common and being able to continue a run with another person is a blessing, no more wasting 40minutes and then being unable to progress! so thanks for that. also the rally to checkpoint works well.

As for the removal of res-rushing thanks, it was obviously far from how dungeons were supposed to be played, I get how this thread has turned into a wildfire of hate and tears but every now and again I get people in a PUG party that just refuse to actually try, like for instance at Kohler, his attacks have an extremely OBVIOUS visual que: “hey guys im charging my attack get ready to dodge kk?” and people sometimes consistently refuse to dodge (there’s also people who sometimes missdodge/are channeling whatever, these aren’t included) and get torn to shreds. The dungeon encounters you’ll have to learn the hard way, AC is basically the easiest dungeon and if you don’t bother trying you die but I find AC in this example very forgiving.

I get how wiping while res-rushing may be anoying but think about it this way; your party died and the boss reset, you obviously were doing something wrong/ using the wrong tactics or whatever. At the point all 5 of a party die and reenter the bossroom and see it ‘gloating’ there there’s usually this moment werein people say “Okay we need to do this differently” then utility slots get swapped and a new approach is attempted. The concept of res-rushing removed the described new strategy and in general meant that 1 person was alive while other people rush back to the boss in hopes of getting there so the one survivor can die and the cycle can repeat, being with less than 5 people at an encouter causes
-less dps
-people get targeted more often because the boss has fewer to pick from
-no teammates to fall back on.

this change is for the better it just takes a different approach and some getting used to. I do wholeheartedly agree that some encounters (CoE p3 destroyer!!!) are very hard for the casual gamer and while I like learning curves to always be able to improve, some curves go up very steeply and I can understand how people get frustrated from dying over and over again (destroyer for example was only doable with res-rushing because the lava prevented normal resses)

Ill wait for the revised dungeons but I like the way the changes’ direction is aimed for

Sorry to post this again, but I promise it’s the last time I’ll ask:

What are the devs thoughts / attitudes on hard-capping the fractals at 50? Why was this done?

Just to clarify:

The loot WAS a lot better (depending on RNG, of course), but the enemies were also a lot harder, and agony on boss fights meant near-instant death, regardless of agony resist. Isn’t that a fair trade-off?

I understand that you may have considered the revive orbs, pet raising, and other methods of getting around the Jade Maw Phase-Change Agony as exploits. But…you still have yet to tell anyone why this “phase-change agony” absolutely HAS to be a mechanic in the first place…

Why can’t it be avoidable? (with extremely difficult timing, perhaps?) Why do you require that we have specific “agony resist” gear— gear that we will want anyway for the other stats and probably obtain, in order to progress past the Jade Maw? Why is there no skill involved in this mechanic?

Why are you ignoring the player-skill involved to get by all the other bosses and enemies at the higher levels, that even allow us to get up to the Jade Maw?

and finally:

If you’re going to hard-cap the fractals… Why not just make the fractal levels you can choose from not exceed 50? Why use this adamant / stupid agony mechanic to do essentially the same thing?

Doing it the latter way can only lead uninformed players to find out the hard way that it’s capped, after wasting a lot of time and money. At least the former way wouldn’t have anyone go into the dungeon past a level that was “Jade Maw Impossible” now.

Have had a chance to run dungeons many times since the update. Have only had to lay dead once, which was enough. I have found that I only get into trouble when trying to rez downed players, just like they would me when I go down. I have missed the boss loot 4 times when I tried to re-rez a player right before the boss died, but just could not get them up. So I missed the loot, they missed the loot and no one was happy. I knew that could happen, but was a chance I wanted to take.

Now after many runs it has finally sunk in. The update was designed not to allow a player to get back into the game if he dies. Not really sure why his coming back into the battle through a far away way point really matters. Anet says it is so we can play and enjoy the game as they envisioned.

I have thought it about long and hard and I can now say that I fully support their position. To honor their vision about how we should enjoy the game, like Anet, I will no longer rez you so that you can fully obtain the experience and enjoyment that they intended for you to have.

Please know that the whole team will miss you while you are watching us finish off the boss you almost killed. Please be assured that we will not fully enjoy the blue and sometimes green loot we get for finishing the fight without you. If you choose not to waypoint at this time, please be assured that the whole team will rally around you and get you back in the game.

Seriously, I enjoy the game and love playing it. Let us play, don’t let us be dead.

I don’t know if it’s because of the patch or not, but I’ve been getting kicked from a lot more dungeons. I like to do dungeons to level my alts because it’s simple and easy. I have a Dungeon Master title I display on my alts most of the time. But all people see is the level when I initially join. Hell, I just got kicked from a CoF path 2 for being on a level 78. That’s 2 under 80.

With the changes to CoF path 2, it’s even more brain dead easy, guys. I have a feeling people are becoming less tolerant of under 80s. It’s no wonder that newer players have terrible experiences in dungeons. They get crappy treatment, and there’s no tolerance for anyone that may seem new.

Nothing good happend after that patch, groups who had no problems still dont have them during dungs, groups with less exp running dungs are wiped every few battles, you only manage to do that making dungs will take 200% or 300% time for new peoples IF they manage to complete it.

Good job, do it more and watch people running away from this game more

Sera.6539:

I don’t know if it’s because of the patch or not, but I’ve been getting kicked from a lot more dungeons. I like to do dungeons to level my alts because it’s simple and easy. I have a Dungeon Master title I display on my alts most of the time. But all people see is the level when I initially join. Hell, I just got kicked from a CoF path 2 for being on a level 78. That’s 2 under 80.

With the changes to CoF path 2, it’s even more brain dead easy, guys. I have a feeling people are becoming less tolerant of under 80s. It’s no wonder that newer players have terrible experiences in dungeons. They get crappy treatment, and there’s no tolerance for anyone that may seem new.

Its not ‘people’ who are less tolerant, its ‘fools’. Just hang in there and educate, or failing that, start your own group and pick up some other pre-80s and complete it without issue.

Regarding nerfs to Arah story mode in the patch…

So I just ran some people through Arah storymode to help them finish their personal stories. I had read in the patch notes about Zhaitan’s poison bombs being nerfed and the airship battle being nerfed, so I expected that. Here’s what I didn’t see coming:

During phase 1 Zhaitan’s adds are now non-veteran and spawn in ridiculously reduced numbers (2 per spawn instead of 4). They also have next to no HP, so the NPCs killed them before we could even get there. We literally sat on our rears and let the game play itself.

Then it got even better. The three Eyes of Zhaitan during phase 2 had their HP cut in half and their damaged nerfed so hard we took none at all. They died so quick we had over a minute to wait as the ship pulled up next to the tower and we could start the cannon phase. When that started it too less than thirty seconds to kill Zhaitan. Thirty seconds. He didn’t even have time to spawn his tentacle adds you guys put in there to make the phase more “engaging.”

How is this acceptable, Arenanet? How can you justify this second rate game design? This is a FINAL BOSS, something that’s supposed to be difficult to kill. Sure the fight was crap before but at least you had to involve yourself. After the patch this isn’t even a boss fight. It’s comparable to the quicktime event bullcrap that permeates FPS games nowadays. I wouldn’t even call this casual. To call it such would insult the intelligence and skill of casual gamers.

Arenanet you better have some amazing fixes planned for boss fights, especially this one, when you reveal your “phase 2” of the dungeon changes. If this is a sign of things to come then dungeon content in this game is doomed.

I would say I think that this dungeon patch made the Zhaitan fight way too short. He doesn’t even have time to use the attacks that you guys added to him during one of the earlier patches. He just keels over and dies after about 30 seconds.

This is officially worst dungeon patch ever…
Do u guys even test it or u just release it?I cannot believe that someone tested that ARAH story and decided to release it…Jesus.
Please,Please,Please give us back the old dungeons where u have to think,plan,wipe,play with ur mind and soul to finish your goals…
Not just run tru like now.This is bad since dungeon difficulty was the best thing about pve.Now it is just meh…
And i cannot believe u listen to complaints.Ofc they complaint cuz most of people wont write how good it is when it came out…We had no idea u were gonna nerf it.Any 6 year old can storm tru any dungeon as it is now…It is like u enabled someone to carry u tru the dungeon.
Yet again only engame fun content is fractals now…Bcz 5 fully geared people will just storm tru any dungeon….So back to same old self-repeative fractal?U should of added 5 new fractal instances instead…would of been 100 times better than what u did.
Complaint? hell yes !!!

I find the patches to dungeons to be really bad for encouraging players that are not familiar with them to be able to actually get in.

I myself have spent the last few months leveling one of each profession in order to be on call to play in any dungeon/event/jp that comes up. I have massive amounts of experience in PvE and WvW but find I can’t even get a run at the dungeons because the more experienced dungeon runners won’t take me and the less experienced ones are looking for people with more experience.

It was a silly idea to block respawn while in combat, particularly because you can’t just outrun the aggro of most bosses to allow others in your group the time to respawn and get back in there. Ressing is almost impossible while in combat after the third team member drops and is really annoying to people who have played the dungeons over and over.

Really bad move in an otherwise great update.

Silidus.7985:

The thing most people seem to forget is that there are already hard/easy mode dungeons. They are called Explore Mode. Explore Modes are for skilled players who enjoy challenges and want to obtain useless, but visually striking armor. If you are not interested in a challenge, then there is a story mode which can be done for lesser reward, and involves more story and lore elements.

Wrong.

I don’t know what universe you occupy but lvl 80 exotic armor/weapons (some with non craftable prefixes) are NOT useless.

In fact it’s the end game gear for most players that don’t have max crafting or are looking for stat prefix that crafting doesn’t give.

Lasur Arkinshade.4107:

I would say I think that this dungeon patch made the Zhaitan fight way too short. He doesn’t even have time to use the attacks that you guys added to him during one of the earlier patches. He just keels over and dies after about 30 seconds.

Good, the whole story mode dungeon was way too long anyway and the Zhaitan fight was unneccessarily long.

We are talking about a story mode dungeon that is also the last personal story quest, it shouldn’t be anywhere near hard.

Here is something to consider:
If a BULK of a strategy is to Res-rush, it may be time to re-evaluate their difficulty. Going in and stopping Res-rushing and not considering that maybe things need to toned down is not the way to go. I would seriously encourage Devs to do their dungeons in all modes with a wide variety of jobs and builds and see what can be done to make them playable for everyone.

I’ll just describe how my dungeon day went:

Went to do AC path 2 with some friends(none of us are very skilled, but we can manage.)
Made it to the very end where Detha is suppose to repair the mortars, but she glitched and just stood in the middle. This frustrated my friends, but we eventually found out how to lure her into enemies so that she dies and resets(which we shouldn’t have to do.) Afterwards, we got stuck on the mortar part because we kept dying and Detha would not repair the mortars unless we did very specific things like luring her away, letting her die, reviving her and then luring all of the enemies away while we cross our fingers hoping she will repair instead of just running off to attack enemies. After two hours of this(yes we have no lives) all of my friends gave up and decided to leave(some of them saying they would never play GW2 again) I wanted to stay and finish the dungeon though so I was going to stay and invite some other people. However, as soon as my last friend left it kicked me out and I could not finish the dungeon.

Even this did not discourage me. I found another party to do path 3 with. We were doing really well and we made it close to the end when one of the members was going to switch characters. Once again, when he left, the dungeon kicked everybody out and we would be forced to restart.

After three and a half hours of trying to complete a dungeon but constantly getting stopped by bugs or the dungeon kicking everyone out, I decided to stop.

I really love GW2 and I want to brag about it to my friends, but when this is the experience they get when I bring them into a dungeon, they no longer want to play.

“Know what’s more fun than playing the game? Not playing the game!” Said no one ever.

I write this, right now, WHILE going through CM with my friends. I died due to mass targeting on me (I’m playing a thief) during a fight with a boss who has mobs. My friends cannot rez me, as the boss is putting too much pressure on them. I cannot rez myself, du to the new WP system. I am bored. This is not fun.

The Lupicus fight seems to now be an impossible fight (even though pros can solo it). I have a group that is going for dungeon master with Arah Path 4 left and Lupicus wiped us which never happens. We can dodge, we can res in the middle of the fight via pets or us.

The one problem we ran into was the constant abuse Lupicus gave to kill one person at a time. You res the person downed – the person that you brought up goes back down cause Lupicus camps him out – moves on to the next person after he dies again.

Then you throw in the level scaling that was tweaked – did it leave some issues with dungeons? Right now I feel like I am weaker in fights when I shouldn’t be.

Just to add my experience with dungeons lately: I am not enjoying the experience. I get frustrated when players aren’t dodging or healing downed players. When I do die, the wait can be long and boring. I really enjoyed all the dungeons before; the fact that some paths were harder than others, some easier – that was balanced, from my gaming perspective. Like many posts here, I would like to agree that a.net is just short to having specific requires to do a dungeon (geared, max level, knows fights, etc). I don’t understand why there was the requirement to fix a problem I didn’t think existed. In the end, it comes down to personal enjoyment — and since my mesmer has done pretty much the majority of achievements possible (except finishing WvW and some dungeons), there isn’t much more for me, as a player, that I want to do. Previously, I put in a lot of hours during the week, playing with guildies, helping out people on my server with story modes. Redoing exp modes, doing fracts. Now, I find myself hating to get in a pug or even with certain players I am unfamiliar with in the guild I am repping. I am concluded my small rant: I’m not interested in playing a game where I get frustrated over other players who can’t evade properly, where the mechanics doesn’t allow better healing capabilities or aggro manoeuvers (to help others rez). It’s not fun right now, for me, as a player (others might enjoy this and kuddos since this might be what they wanted) who just wants to log in, play and have fun with a few other players. Right now, all I do is log in, do my daily, do some of my monthly, log off. Time for me to find a new distraction — sorry a.net, but just not interested in continuing to play right now. I’ll probably check in with future updates. I always tell myself I have the choice to log in or not (or to pay for a game or not). Loved the game and found it really fun, until now.

Thanks for letting me rant and for anyone taking the time to read “another” post about what’s already been said… just felt another “voice” might give the devs an idea o who is keen on this change and who isn’t.

I apologize for errors (English is my second language)!

really wtf why did you do that with the wp do you guys want that nobody plays the dungeon if your with a group that never played arah this really sucks i hate what you done with this and i hope you do it back how it was becaos this sucks really hard if you do more of this bullcrap in the futur much peaple are gone stop playing

The difference in dungeons is, with the wp system taking a bunch of new guys was no problem. “see, when the circles form like that just dodge, don’t worry just wp back and try again” vs “oh man, that guys down again, screw this, kick him and grab another guy”. The guys who have already done all the dungeons have no problem with the new system, they have friends and guildies who also know it and they’ll run with them. Its lost the ability for a newbie to learn from experiencing it, now its just dead=you suck = kick. Theres a few guys out there who will teach you but sadly its now the minority as most players who are like that are the casual players. The 24/7 guys just don’t give a rats, they’re running it 45 more times that day and you’re just wasting space.

Alright I didn’t even read the rest of this kitten, but I’m going to ask the question: do you even have people on your team in charge of dungeons?

I swear to god nobody in all of Anet plays through these things. At first they were so buggy that 90% of fights were accomplished through walking AWAY from the computer. Fixed that. Fine.

Now what? The fights were only beatable because the bosses didn’t attack. I’m with a guild that has very competent people and now we can’t really clear any of the dungeons because all of the bosses are just insta-gib fights that we can’t even graveyard zerg.

I know that there are plans to look at all of your kittenty dungeon bosses and fix them, but why implement half of the change to make your dungeons unplayable?

Some of these things make no sense. I would like (if you even have a dungeon team) that when they sit down with each boss you ask: “What the kitten is this boss supposed to test?” Dwayna is a perfect example . . . what the kitten were you guys smoking here.

She doesn’t test survivability, she doesn’t attack. She doesn’t really test coordination, most of our team just afk dps’s her. She kinda tests DPS but that doesn’t even matter because all she does is heal. You aren’t actually testing any skill we could possibly have, just our patience, which at this point. Has totally run out.

I loved GW1, it allowed you to be creative, the fights were designed brilliantly compared to other MMOs at the time (I’m looking at you WoW, Tank and Spank everything). This . . . is just lazy kitten. Even one person could come up with better bosses, and test them himself than what I’ve seen.

I think Anet should fire all of their dungeon staff, no questions, and hire competent people. Hell even hire incompetent people because they’ll do a better job. If you ever want to know what a dungeon looks like from someone who plays them, feel free to PM me.

Otherwise, good night GW2, I’ll probably not see you until all this kitten is fixed.

In general, I like the fact that you can’t wp zerg anymore as it promotes team work.

But I just did CoF path3 with my usual group (e.g. we do CoF p1 in 10 minutes just fine) and it took us quite a while to kill the last boss. This boss likes to knock people around and if it knocks you into the lava you pretty much die instantly and because of the high DoT, your party members can’t get you back up.

So you spend about 10 minutes lying around in the lava hoping the rest of your team mates can kill it .. or all die in the same way and we can try again. This is quite annoying and I think not really the idea.

Conclusion: While no more wp zerging is great it seems to makes the design fail at the CoF p3 end boss.

This is the absolute worst thing I have seen done since this game came out. I do not like doing the regular dungeons just because all of the mobs are so overpowered on damage and have 10-50x the health points that the players do. Now I go in to find that you cant even WP back to start when you get killed until the whole team dies or leaves combat. Not only is this very annoying its almost impossible to tell when you can teleport back. There is no indicator of when you are able to use the teleport, you just have to sit there and keep trying to go till it works.

In the previous version the distance between the waypoints was far enough that you werent really rushing back to the fight when it took 20-45 seconds to run back there.

I understand what you are trying to accomplish and I think it’s a good idea, but when a mob has the power to 1 hit half the team you have to allow for the players to get back into the frey. If the current system is to be kept in place the health and damage output of enemies needs to be lowered substantially.

I have no intention of doing another dungeon until this situation is removed or at least corrrected to make it reasonable. Spending 40 silver for repairs to get half way through the arah dungeon is not my idea of fun. I’ll stick to fractals, they are much better to play and much more balanced.