Guild Wars 2

Incentive for selfish play in a team oriented part of the game is not good. Unique items drops from sub bosses that are affected by Magic Find are a bad move, in my opinion.
Better Dungeon drops in general that are never affected by Magic Find at all would be a much better move.

Why?

Magic Find is a purely selfish stat.
There is only one armor set with Magic Find in it and it is a glass cannon build: Power/Precision (and both are minor stats).
60% of MF comes from runes, so selfish play will overcome team play runes.

Magic Find rewards the players who worries more for himself than for the team. He sacrifices his major stat in armor and trinkets, his sigil slot in the weapon and the runes to get a solo benefit while contributing less.

When you are with 20 people in Orr or some other event, you do not have to worry if some people are with MF ( and you probably are too ). But in the structured event of a 5 person team, rewarding the one that is contributing less is wrong.

And before the argument that you can finish the dungeon with MF gear, non MF gear would make it go faster/easier, since with the same skill and better stats on gear it would be faster.

Please get that magic find garbage out of my dungeons please. I don’t like wearing magic find out in the game world, I like it even less now that i’m forced to wear it in dungeons.

The guy above me makes good arguments.

I hate magic find as a stat, and I hate now that I have to wear my MF set in dungeons. Basically now there isn’t any time for me to wear my good stat gear except for WvW.

Just get rid of that magic find garbage.

Please remove MF stat affecting dungeon drops, this is so dumb.

Glad about the dungeon but still very disappointed in Sorrows Embrace. I like the loot changes but skipping trash mobs still seems like the way to go because fighting them does not really give you anything.

Nothing to really discuss that hasn’t been discussed in the other loot thread, since that’s the major change in this patch until we can experience the Fractal dungeon tomorrow.

Just looking at the Fractal preview, I am super excited and it looks awesome. Both in the way the dungeon is presented and the loot you can receive from tokens.

The major downside of this patch on dungeons is the MF issue and the affect it can have as a self-centered mechanic in team-centered challenging content and how it will affect PuGs and hurt players who value teamwork and efficient dungeon runs while rewarding selfish players who don’t care that they are dragging down the team.

Also hopefully you realize the difference between how mf affected dungeons before (same stuff you could get farming Orr, at a slower rate, meaning no one joined dungeons to wear mf gear to farm) and how it affects it now (unique stuff that cannot be farmed outside of dungeons, people join dungeons and wear mf gear which is ~40% worse in combat, dungeon groups become worse and people become more frustrated).

Like was said before. the MF addition is just unbelievable.

Remove it ASAP through hot fix. And never look back to it nor think about it -ever again-.

Please exclude MF stat from dungeons altogether – any way you see fit.
I would really love to pug more often and not be afraid of running into a MF-using scrub who would surely be better off in a different gear, or into a MF-using vet consciously and intentionally making everything slower because of greed.

I’ve done some fast TA run (f,f) to check those “bags” and rewards. My “last” run for armor also.
Reward at the end as always, 60 tokens, 26 silver and karma. Those new bags droped from first vine boss, champion on bridge next to archers in buble event and from leurent or what is the name of this pointless boss. From those 3 bags I’ve got 9 tokens, and 3 bags of gold with 2s, 3s and 5s.
Also those bosses gave us massive coin reward from drop. 10s for champion and 15 for leurent, does not remeber first boss. and 3 karma vials 400 karma each.
Nice change, still we don’t know about this new drop in dungeons but coin reward is nice. If it’s good I don’t know, more than 50 silver from only coin reward in dungeon is nice.

I was playing in 0% mf gear. Some guy in party got 55 level masterwork ring, other one got lodestone from chest.

^Magic Find doesn’t affect chests.

Yes I second the notion to make all drops non magic find related. I also have another point to make to the people that defend their decision to wear MF in dungeons. See, magic find is a glass cannon setup – well, let’s say glass gun set up because you’re missing out a lot of critical damage and power. If you can run a glassy build and not die, by not running a proper glass cannon build you are making the run slower, essentially wasting your own time, as you could get those tokens and money rewards way faster with proper gear.

With all your knowledge, experience and ability to coordinate with people and not die without those extra health/power/critical damage/armor you’re missing out on by wearing MF, you’re probably a decent player. However you could dish out much more damage or stay alive much longer with a combat useful stat in the major stat slot of your equipment as oppose to MF. This exactly means dragging the general performance down. Not wiping, dying all the time or whatever – but consciously and willingly making the run slower than it could be, even for yourself.

It gets even more so silly now that we know that MF doesn’t work with chests. We don’t kill that many mobs in dungeons to make MF worth it even for the user. MF is still a RNG mechanic, and with proper gear you will do your runs faster which could make you a tiny tiny bit less money or the same depending on your luck. However this also means that you have more time to run more dungeons which means more money and token rewards since you’re clearing dungeons faster. This means you get more cash and tokens in the long run.

It probably doesn’t affect you much if you run only one route per sitting – 10 extra minutes don’t make a difference then. However if you do all the routes, wasting extra 30+ minutes total because two people run mf instead of berserker (if they’re so super awesome and can make glassy builds work), is outright silly and I seriously hope you don’t do this.

I’ll repeat my statement. Magic find rewards bad (maybe) players for using kitten gear.

I’ll consider the fact that you’ve copied my post about MF, Snapalope, as a tribute to my genius.

Editted it somewhat to my own liking but your statement is pure genius. I’ll make sure to give credit in the future.

Magic find has always existed, the fact that you’re all just now making a big deal out of it two months in is silly.

In other news I just ran AC and still had some serious obstruction issues with the borrows when I wasn’t just blowing them away with Ice Bow.
This was during the lover’s crypt event on path 3.
I’m not sure if it’s just those objects at this point.

We need Stat-Total inspection, NOW. And it needs to include Condition/Healing/MF% attribute totals as well. It’s not a big deal if someone’s running “ME FIRST” gear in HotW or CM Butler, but it’s definitely a big deal in several tougher places.

Asking people to voluntarily ping their gear isn’t enough now since they’ll have a very strong temptation to ping the Survival gear but secretly equip MF% instead.

MF addition is terrible.

Dungeons still suffer from the same problems as before: packs that you have to skip (CM Asura’s 8-silver pack, some of the hounds in TA); packs you have to leash most-but-not-all-of to have a chance (Laurent and his knights); NPCs which have way too much health and no abilities (most dungeons); instant-kill attacks with no telegraph (pick any dungeon you like). None of these problems have been addressed and dungeons will suck until they are.

That said, the buff to loot was necessary and is welcome. So it’s not that the patch was bad per se it just ignored crucial issues.

My thanks to you, Hrouda, and everyone who worked on making these changes.

Magic find or no, we’ve been granted more than we had before. There is absolutely no reason this should be in dispute, as with the stat or not, there’s still a new chance at rare goodies.

What?
I used to hate people using MF gear in dungeons.
Now I am going to hate myself.

I’m not sure if my warrior is hitting burrows more reliably with GS or not, I’m pretty used to moving around by now.

But I seem to be unable to hit the gargoyle statue flame shooting things at all. Like I’ll hit them maybe once every ten swings.

The new bags are pretty nice.

In my personal experience, Magic Find does not work as one would expect, instead it increases the drop % of fine crafting materials, and items that result in crafting materials (such as salvagable items and bags), decreaces drop % of whites/blues/greens, while at the same time lowering over all drop rates. Since mobs tend not to drop things in dungeons MF is almost useless in dungeons anyways.

Object Hitboxes worse then before:

1. Overhead Gargoyles in AC
2. Crystal in CoF Path 1 end boss
3. Burrows in AC Path 3 still get miss when standing still
4. Brambles in CoE 2 End Boss (Before last Alpha Fight) are near impossible to hit with melee

All of these things worked perfectly before today’s patch (minus standing still for burrows) when moving, now I can’t even hit them while strafing back and forth like before.

At least revert the changes which were easy to get around before, now you can’t even melee half the stuff and have to switch to ranged which does much less damage.

You would think these things would be easy to test since they are inside an instance and has nothing to do with server load or population. This, along with things like the Bjarl bug, show that you really need a test server for these things that you can invite players to or something… because alot of this stuff seems obvious if you actually ran the dungeon after pushing updates to it.

The problem is, you added an INCENTIVE for a player to make your team worse, why make it worse for PUGS we know they are worse than premades already but you made it even more worse. And without an inspect how are we to know when even a premade group might have someone thinking “Oh Anet made this easy for me to be greedy and just go magic find, my team will just think i’m in a squishy build, they can’t see my damage or my gear!”

The Bags of Wondrous Goods are a pretty good start and have potential, but in their current state I find them very boring.

It would be better if they had some items that could scale with the economy, like cores/lodestones or t6 mats. If we could get those items from the bags (randomly of course) it would go a long way to making these bags more interesting and exciting to get. For t6 mats, you could assign 1 of the 8 find monster parts to each of the 8 dungeons and have them sometimes drop from bags in small quantities (% chance to drop 1-2 or something).

Thats just a small suggestion, but regardless the bags are very boring in their current state and need some randomness added to them to make them exciting and super addicting to open up.

Vrumpt.1072:

The Bags of Wondrous Goods are a pretty good start and have potential, but in their current state I find them very boring.

It would be better if they had some items that could scale with the economy, like cores/lodestones or t6 mats. If we could get those items from the bags (randomly of course) it would go a long way to making these bags more interesting and exciting to get. For t6 mats, you could assign 1 of the 8 find monster parts to each of the 8 dungeons and have them sometimes drop from bags in small quantities (% chance to drop 1-2 or something).

Thats just a small suggestion, but regardless the bags are very boring in their current state and need some randomness added to them to make them exciting and super addicting to open up.

More cores/lodestones/t6 mats would be VERY awesome. I’ve ran CoE enough to probably get a full set 3 times over and I have 21 lodestones which actually includes me buying a lot of cores.

Please put a -dungeon group finder- in the game. I haven’t been able to find a dungeon group yet

There is a basic design flaw in the dungeon grouping system.

You need to be in the same server to enter the dungeon as a group.

LA is where you get into overflow server constantly (especially on weekends), which means even you form a group, your group members would have a very high chance to be in different servers and they entered different instances. We just got split up after the LA event and we got into different FotM. After relog, none of us can get into FotM anymore because the ‘new’ overflow server seems to be generated AFTER the event and there is no dungeon entry at that overflow server.

Even if we can get into an overflow server with a dungeon entry, there is no guarantee that all 5 members get into the same overflow server after relog or map change.

Currently you only receive the “Join Dungeon with your party?” confirmation when you are in the same map (same server) with the member trying to enter. For other dungeons, since their entrances are on map that usually does not have overflow servers (except CM in the first few weeks), this is not such a serious problem, but with FotM, this is going to happen constantly because the dungeon entrance is in LA.

We need to be able to join our member entering dungeon regardless of what server we are on.

I LOVE the fractals…I’ve seen 4 (but finished just two due to leavers) so far and they all seem really fun and smart. I hope that all the bugs with ressing, finding a substitute for a leaver and getting ppl into the same instance will eventually get fixed, but so far I feel like we’re on a right track!

We really need to be able to invite people to a fractal in progress. It’s extremely frustrating when you get to something like the swamp (frustrating on it’s own) only to have one or more members rage quit and have no hope of completing it on your own.

I have never worn magic find gear in any game I have played on principal. I find it a bad game mechanic. It ends up screwing up the economy and drop rates. The people who max the stat out bugger the numbers for people who are not wearing it and there comes a point where drop rates are nerfed because of people with magic find sets.

There is too much gold entering the economy from dungeons now and it’s going to accelerate inflation. The bosses drop far too much gold for the effort required. It’s great that there is incentive to not skip content now, but the rewards shouldn’t be given in liquid form. The bag of wondrous goods is sometimes replaced by a (bad) piece of jewelry, so it is not a guaranteed drop. It would be better if the boss loot went inside that bag and no extra bag of gold was given (nix the extra 10s for legendaries, too). The bag would contain the karma potion, tokens, and have a higher chance of dropping the dungeon-specific rares and exotics. This would help prevent massive inflation as well as mitigating the issues with MF.

To be honest, I’m not really a fan of having the extra rewards drop off of the boss. I would rather have seen a checkpoint system for minibosses and events (things that spawn chests). The end reward is directly tied into how many of those were done and any bonus event rewards could be tacked on there. This would make players have to play the content to be properly rewarded and still give some incentive to do the bonus events. It also prevents MF farming of the first boss.

If this is going to remain the same, I’ll go around collecting my nearly 1 gold per dungeon run, but I’ll maintain that this shouldn’t happen.

angelsarc.1807:

There is too much gold entering the economy from dungeons now and it’s going to accelerate inflation. The bosses drop far too much gold for the effort required. It’s great that there is incentive to not skip content now, but the rewards shouldn’t be given in liquid form. The bag of wondrous goods is sometimes replaced by a (bad) piece of jewelry, so it is not a guaranteed drop. It would be better if the boss loot went inside that bag and no extra bag of gold was given (nix the extra 10s for legendaries, too). The bag would contain the karma potion, tokens, and have a higher chance of dropping the dungeon-specific rares and exotics. This would help prevent massive inflation as well as mitigating the issues with MF.

To be honest, I’m not really a fan of having the extra rewards drop off of the boss. I would rather have seen a checkpoint system for minibosses and events (things that spawn chests). The end reward is directly tied into how many of those were done and any bonus event rewards could be tacked on there. This would make players have to play the content to be properly rewarded and still give some incentive to do the bonus events. It also prevents MF farming of the first boss.

If this is going to remain the same, I’ll go around collecting my nearly 1 gold per dungeon run, but I’ll maintain that this shouldn’t happen.

Yep as I said in the other thread, pure silver drops are a terrible idea. They increase inflation, and do not scale as inflation increases. 6 months from now the same reward for doing dungeons will be less simply because inflation has increased.

They should have used lodestones and the unique exotics (from chests though because mf in dungeons is a terrible idea) as incentive since they will inflate as gold inflates and they won’t directly cause inflation.

So you increase the tokens in the rest of the dungeons but the loot in the fractal is very bad. 15 tokens for an hour is lame. PLEASE upgrade the loot!!!

Swamp Fractal

Good: The basic premise of running a certain path under pressure of time.
Good: The idea of a reconfigurable maze (“Lady Bug” forever https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JqkIQE6gp8)

Bad: No player direction, therefore extremely annoying with pugs.
Bad: Cripple traps.
Bad: Visibility of traps

Where is it done better?
Any racing game does these sort of puzzles by making the player navigate speedboosts, instead of making him/her avoid speed penalties. This fractal basically tries to be a racing game, it needs to be conscious of racing game paradigms.

I like the new dungeon and the loot improvements to the existing ones but have a question/complaint/issue. Now that everyone is rushing to the new dungeon it has left many of the lands empty, as expected, but places like Citadel of Flame cannot be entered now due to the lack of players available to clear the event chain. YES believe it or not some of us still enjoy the old dungeons enough that we like doing those instead of the new at the moment. Sooo why have an entire dungeon blocked off due to an event chain knowing there will no longer be enough players around to clear the opening due to the new dungeon?

Fractals of the Mists solve for me the most riddiculous and absurd mechanic in all other dungeons → waypoint runs and skipping encounters.

For me → if you don’t change other dungeons to be just like Fractals → you can just delete them from the game. I’m not doing them anymore until that is fixed.

That said, There are 2 extremally annoying issues in the fractals:

1) Crash and Disconnect means game over for entire party.
2) You fall. You die in an unreachable place. There is no fight currently going on. Your party has 2 options → continue on their own or commit a suicide. In case your party continues → you get no reward from the chest. In case they commit a suicide, they might get one more armor part damaged which means one less deaths since there is no repair mechanism. Not to mention they lose money. There should be an option to teleport your corpse to the last checkpoint. Or an option for the party to restart from checkpoint at will.

I will give credit where credit is due. Obviously I have complained about mf changes to unique loot which I still think is a terrible idea.

But except for a few bugs to iron out, I think FotM is a really big success and I like it alot.

I’ve asked this in the other thread and I’ll ask it here, given gear bought from dungeon tokens is now not the highest level gear what is the incentive to run these over fractals?

Been on FofM 4 times haven’t completed 3 paths yet, been kicked every time. Fix yo game! Did you guys even test this??? Not to mention always loosing people that get stuck, there should be a way to rejoin the group after being kicked or getting stuck. Kthnksby

I actually kind of like Fractals. I do. I experience two difficulties with it.

1. It is starting to be difficult to find groups on my server at my Fractals level—that level is four. There could be a learning curve or a skill gap, but it is very frustrating and I have no desire to go back to level one. I assume it was designed to increase in difficulty for a reason—a reason to re-play the dungeon.

2. Random disconnects. Disconnects are frustrating enough and have been around since release. Compound that problem by disconnecting after spending a lot of time in a fractal and a player cannot rejoin—it is a bad situation. What could make it worse? See my first problem. If I have difficulty finding a group in the first place for my fractals level, then imagine having to do it over and over again. Do not suggest that my group merely restart. There are five people in a group with the possibility for disconnects and if it happens toward the end of a fractal more than once, well, there are five people with the possibility of becoming fed-up or needing to leave because the whole experience took more time than it was supposed to.

I have no comments about the loot because I do not find it interesting. Rather than hate on Ascended, I merely roll my eyes at it.

Fractals was a complete faceroll so far. Does this get harder after level 10?

Please ban people from entering dungeons who don’t have a full set of exotic armor and weapons. Not having exotics is entirely selfish and drags the whole team down.

Hey robert,

While I appreciate the thought behind giving us better drops magic find is not the way to go about it… Take Me for example: I am a guardian, I run full support, I have stacked healing power to the max. It has made a huge difference in not only the amount of healing I put out, but also our group performance. If i were to take magic find… i would totally lose out on this bonus and my group would suffer. ArenaNet constantly talks about group play… but this change to magic find stinks with the stench of solo play. Do i like the magic find idea in theory… yes… but it should not be on armor… it should be a stat you get by zone completion, Jumping puzzle solving, first time event completion, and rare chest opens. a stat that you get by exploring and completing the game. If a change like that was implemented then I can see your idea working. As is… it doesn’t work. and it will frustrate more people than it will appease.

I like that you keep us informed, I like that you take our opinions into consideration so I am asking you to look at this forum line… everyone, except for a few people, doesn’t like the magic find addition to dungeons. I would hope you would read into this and re think your direction you are taking. It does not fit into group play, which this game is supposed to be based upon.

I request either you fix the disconnect issue with the fractals or simply allow us to do fractals 1 at a time for credit instead of 3.
not being able to join your team due to a ISP or game crashing issue should not be penalized. thank you.

I agree with everyone else about magic find. I honestly do not mind at all having in my party a lesser geared player , who honestly tries to make the best of the armor he has at the time, than a full exotic magic find pixel who puts his greed above everything else, wasting our time. If it’s only one player that wears mf gear , that is .

diablodropout.8670:

I request either you fix the disconnect issue with the fractals or simply allow us to do fractals 1 at a time for credit instead of 3.
not being able to join your team due to a ISP or game crashing issue should not be penalized. thank you.

Yes please. I feel I m being punished every day either cause my connection might not be great or cause I happened to group up with a quitter . Hours of tries to progress one simple level go wasted. How would you feel if you were stuck 3 days now at difficulty 2 , without this being your poor performance’s fault?

If you’re going to put dungeons in the monthly achievement, you need to create dungeons that are more accessible to casual players. Dungeons in GW2 are designed for hardcore players so this alienates the casual player base.

I would like to see Magic Find become an additional upgrade to armor pieces, much like Infusions. Its very annoying when players in Pugs come dressed in all MF armor, and constantly die. There’s simply a conflict here between wanting to be as strong as possible, and wanting the best chance to receive rare drops. And as it is now, the two cancel each other out. This would be fine, if it didn’t drag a whole party of players down unintentionally as well.

Plus I don’t like the idea of having to carry around a special MF armor and a special defensive armor. Players should be happy that their fellow party members are boosting their collective MF chance, and not be angry that they are bringing rubbish armor.

I have a suggestion that would solve the MF problems.

Diablo 3 also has magic find and therefore the same problem with those who contribute less gain more. What they did (and since removed, don’t know why) was sharing the magic find. So, in a group of 5 if one person has +100% MF and the rest have 0, it would be balanced and everyone would have +20% instead.

I think this would be an interesting fix. This way MF could be valued instead of shunned and groups would actually look for someone with high MF in order to bring that small MF boost to the whole party.

All fine and nice, just make MF worthless in dungeons. MF in no way contributes to the success of the group yet rewards the player who uses it more than the others who use a combat stat instead of it. This is really bad design (contradicting our manifesto aren’t we?).
Also bosses drop way too much money now, the prices have already begin to skyrocket, and those who don’t run dungeons will find the TP way too expensive. Either give better karma liquid or bit more tokens, but the amount of coins bosses drop should be lowered

fractal are too kitten to do, i get d/c because of bad internet at the boss, i lost the party , THANK YOU !!! (this is the 5 th++ time i lose party because i deconnect…)
…the party is angry at me, i am also on a-net for not fixing this…

there are 3 levels before you can complete 1 fractal lvl from what i know, and after 5++ parties (always someone d/c-ed), i am still lvl 1 !!! i am getting sick of this….

A player name Xolots.5812 and his guild kick me from fractral lv 10 when i was about to get my reward. plz some1 help me i feel soo abuse after playing with them for a hour and never have my reward he just kick me from the party when we kill the last boss ; ;. ask yourself, how will you feel if this person did this to you?