Guild Wars 2

Jovers.7825:

Sverre.3590:

Why am i surprised most forum posters are so over critical? Seriously this change was greatly needed. So you can’t spam the same path over and over to rush your exotic gear. So? God forbid you have to actually explore the explorable dungeons to get proper rewards. Many people here seem to think that constantly repeating dungeons is the only way to get gear, i myself have a full set of exotic gear and only half of it is from dungeons.

Stop throwing a fit because you think that there isn’t any way for you to ever get gear or gold just because you can’t repeat the same 30 min to 1 hour of content to get it. It’s only a grind if you try to make it one. The game isn’t going to hold your hand, hand you charity loot, and tell you how special you are because the exact same armor as everyone else. If you really feel that the content isn’t fun, fine no one is forcing you to play the minority of the pve content, nor are you currently paying any money to do so, but don’t expect to get everything you want if you don’t put a little effort into it.

Besides, its not like the content is going anywhere, if another update comes out all the dungeon exotics you get wont suddenly become worthless because there’s another teir of dungeons you need to slog through to keep competitive. Experiment, try other paths, other character builds or team combinations, run dungeons to run dungeons, not to gear up.

The majority of the complaining being done on here is not the difficulty increase, its the notion of GRINDING in a game advertised as a NON-GRINDING GAME. It’s really that simple.

You act like you have to do the same dungeon exclusively to get a specific set of armor with the stats you want, several dungeons have the same stat combinations and any other pieces can be found, bought or made. Sure you wont look as pretty and you may not look how you want but looks are where the non-grinding ends, they have stated before that cosmetics will be difficult to acquire. Grinding is usually the idea the you must do dungeon A to do dungeon B to do Dungeon C, forum goers here seem to thing “Grinding” is “doing the content and getting the rewards slower than i want”.

Don’t forget to change the tokens to account bound too!

If you truly want us to not “grind the same dungeon over and over” then give us the option to do so.

Just follow the logic here.

Why does a player grind?

Because the player wants a reward.

Ok, but why do the same dungeon, with the same toon over and over again? that can’t be fun… can it?

We do it because that is the only option we have. If there was 1 universal token and tokens were account bound instead of soulbound, then guilds/pugs would simply rotate dungeons and paths and toons.

I agree (and yes this is a matter of taste, so other may feel different) that doing the same dungeon over an over again with the same toon and strategy over and over again is not fun.

This is an economic issue, plain and simple, If you want players to do the rest of the content then give the players the tools to do so (universal account bound tokens)

You have made the frist stop by putting a roadblock to farming the same dungeon path, now give the players the option to have fun in other dungeons!

You say you want to eliminate grind?

Lets have a look at a few things you’ve done since launch:

1. reduced the drop rates for L80 mobs killed “out of event” to almost nothing.
2. increased the (Karma) cost of vendor bought weapons and armour by a huge factor
3. massively increased the number of dungeon tokens required to buy gear
4. and now reduced rewards for trying to efficiently farm said tokens

Do you guys even know what the word “eliminate” means because I don’t think it means what you think it means.

JonPeters.5630:

You should not see any diminished returns unless you.
1) Run the same exact chain over twice in a row
2) Complete multiple dungeons in 30 minutes or less each.

Point #1 is all right. #2 is batkitten insane and whoever thought it up needs to be shown the door.

You are punishing players for getting better at the game? What the hell? It’s like you took the worst grind in WOW, tripled it, removed all the gear upgrades, and then decided instead of rewarding people for completing dungeons faster, to punish them for it?

This makes no sense whatsoever.

Point #1 seems to encourage people to go run each dungeon once a day. Fine with me. #2 then punishes them for running it efficiently. Why? Why do you hate your players so much? Why would you even consider the need to punish players for being good?

Point #1 punishes players for being unimaginative and running the same thing over and over. #2 punishes them for having better gear, being more organized, and getting better at the game. I cannot understand how this proposal was considered for even a moment. I don’t know if you realize this, but the inescapable conclusion #2 gives is that someone at arena.net has a seething, boiling hatred for people who run dungeons well and quickly. There is absolutely no other way to look at this as other than a giant ‘screw you’ to people who do dungeons quickly. Doing dungeons quickly and efficiently should be something players strive TOWARDS, not shrink in fear from. Good god. How was this ever considered for even a moment?

JonPeters.5630:

Finally we reduced the value of repeating the story mode, because they are built to be easier

Whaaaat? In my experience story mode dungeons are way harder than most explorable modes (at least the ones people run) and give terrible rewards. You get a crappy helm with terrible stats and an absolutely boring skin. I’m amazed to discover you consider the problem with AC story that it gives too high a reward.

JonPeters.5630:

At this time, dungeons should one of the most efficient ways to level and get gold

Story mode dungeons seem like the least efficient way to level and get gold in the entire game. Explorable mode dungeons at level 80 with well geared people were a decent way to get gold before you nerfed it absurdly, but they need to be, because you don’t need experience at level 80 and you aren’t getting gear upgrades, so the gold is the only reason to run it.

JonPeters.5630:

and it is not our intention to make them feel like a grind.

…

Were you able to type that with a straight face?

Your dungeons are the grindiest grind in any MMO ever. They are worse than the grindiest dungeons in WOW, the king of grind. I never ran the same dungeon 70 times in WOW. And yet that’s the set up you have implemented here.

And in WOW I was not punished for doing dungeons quickly.

I best most of these people in here are mad since they can’t chain run CoF anymore.

You can get the best gear in the game in very little time (crafted). Anything else that makes you look pretty should not be forced on you (it isn’t), and take time. I don’t see the problem?

People are flipping out about tokens. If they were universal, people would chain run the easiest dungeon (problem). If anything they should add +X tokens for completing all paths of a dungeon in Y time.

Sverre, I accept the difficulty, and welcome it. I enjoy the challenge of the dungeons. My beef is the repetitive aspect of it that makes the rewards (by rewards im meaning gold and exp) almost not worth it. Otherwise I find little wrong with it.

You still need 330 tokens to get a single piece of exotic gear that I can craft for the same stats by spending 30 minutes in Orr.

I mean that alone makes it all a grind and if you, like some of my friends, want something out of a dungeon that has no “easy” or “quick” path then the grind is made all the worse.

Me and my 2 mates sitting in Lion’s Arch, just gambled 20g into mystic forge and got 27g back. As usual. That’s actually the ONLY thing that’s left to do on this game. We all used all our cash to gamble and now waiting for items to sell so we can do more.

Then 10 minutes later, everyone goes ’don’t know what to do now, ima go on Lol, I’ll go on MW3’ Everyone logs off and 90% sure we wont bother with this game anymore.

Also absolutely sure there are many, many more like us.

Well done mister Jon. If I want to do the same path then I should be able to. Simply because all the paths rewards are the same – NOTHING. So why would I run a different path, which is 2x harder and takes more time for same amount of tokens ?

Your game simply does not make any sense.

There is no endgame PvE content. You can say otherwise but the fact is there is not endgame PvE. Just a fact. I got my set in 5 days with casual play. That’s not end-game.

There is nothing in between exotic armor sets and legendary weapons.
Full exotic characters can be done in a week after reaching level 80. Too easy imo.
Legendary weapon – see you in a year.
People who decide legendary weapons are too much effort for a skin, literally have got nothing to do PvE wise after 3-4 weeks. That’s me.

Cancer.9065:

Don’t forget to change the tokens to account bound too!

If you truly want us to not “grind the same dungeon over and over” then give us the option to do so.

Just follow the logic here.

Why does a player grind?

Because the player wants a reward.

Ok, but why do the same dungeon, with the same toon over and over again? that can’t be fun… can it?

We do it because that is the only option we have. If there was 1 universal token and tokens were account bound instead of soulbound, then guilds/pugs would simply rotate dungeons and paths and toons.

I agree (and yes this is a matter of taste, so other may feel different) that doing the same dungeon over an over again with the same toon and strategy over and over again is not fun.

This is an economic issue, plain and simple, If you want players to do the rest of the content then give the players the tools to do so (universal account bound tokens)

You have made the frist stop by putting a roadblock to farming the same dungeon path, now give the players the option to have fun in other dungeons!

Yes please make tokens account bound, no downside and lets people use various classes and change things up, or use those low amount of tokens for alt gear if they don’t plan on saving up 200+ tokens.

I have 2 80s now and I’m highly annoyed I have stacks for 40-60 tokens I ran on my necro that I can’t use or combine with dungeons run on my guardian.

I understand the reduction in exp and silver from story mode dungeons, they were intended to be done once any ways. But the changed in difficulty Anet have made to some story mode dungeons (CM) is ridiculous You have to remeber that CM is suppose to be a level 40 dungeon, I was helping my friend do a CM run earlier (also had an intention of checking out the rewards decrease) and it was crazy! People where getting 1 shoted everywhere from previously trash mobs and newly added champ packs! Any ways that’s story mode and I understand Anet’s reasoning.
However, the main problem I have is with explorable mode.
Just as with story mode,I understand the reduction in exp and silver rewards, dungeons should not be a way to power level and it takes away the fun of the game when you can just speed farm gold to buy everything you want. I do like the reductions in exp/money.
The main question I have is, why the sudden increase in difficulty?

“At this time, dungeons should one of the most efficient ways to level and get gold, and it is not our intention to make them feel like a grind. "

Well let’s analysis this, it is definitely not a good source of exp anymore, silver rewards have been slashed, and the time it takes to do a dungeon has been increased to double if not triple the time.
So in terms of best exp and gold, dungeons are definitely not.
If you want exp, go karma trains, if you want gold, farm bloods.

Let’s be frank here, most people who do dungeons are doing it for the token gears, we care less about the exp/gold. I find making a dungeon (CoF) harder is very counter productive. frankly, the story line in dungeons isn’t good enough (or new) for players to care. It doesn’t matter how badly you have buffed Magg’s route in CoF, players will try the other chains out, pick the new easiest of the 3 and spam that instead. All which Anet has achieved in buffing the dungeons is make them even more of a grind.

The only reasoning I can see is that dungeons were never intended to be that easy or fast, you were never meant to be able to farm a full exotic set from dungeons in a few days and this is Anet once again back peddling in fixing an error and prolonging the life of the guild wars 2 end game. As the game stands, you once you hit 80 you don’t have to do a lot of farming before you get a full exo set, maybe that wasn’t Anet’s intentions.

We’ll that is my take on the situation any ways, I would love to hear other people’s opinions and Anet’s explanation as to why making a dungeon harder = less grind.

Honestly, reduced rewards per time/repeating is a HORRIBLE AND LAZY fix. There are much better alternatives to this system to solve the same problem.

Think harder Anet, you made an awesome game, don’t kill it by implementing stuff like this.

Personally…I didn’t give a kitten about AC or anything that didn’t reward badges that got me level 80 exotics. I understand they can still be used for cosmetic reasons, but even people leveling up and doing those dungeons at the appropriate levels are just going to replace that gear that they likely grinded for hours, even days, to get and hell they probably would have out leveled the gear by the time they finished getting enough badges for it all.

I’m all for a challenge, and hell this is much less of a grind than it was to get good looking gear in GW1, but overall the structure of it seems lax and unrewarding.

My point: If you want the players to diversify what dungeons they run, across the GW2 playerbase as a whole, then for the LOVE OF GOD tone down the badge amounts for the gear and give -all- of the dungeons level 80 gear sets (hell throw in level 80 explorable modes for the lower level dungeons if you want, whatever makes you happy) otherwise it is pointless as hell for people to waste their time to get something purely for cosmetic reasons when the stats themselves aren’t even worth it.

The reason people did CoF and other speed runs is because they were actually rewarding in some way. Now its just…meh.

I fail to see how this change is supposed to lessen this “grinding” feeling you say occurs in dungeons rignt now.

Before the change, I was forced to speed run a single path due to efficiency, group dynamics, and ease/less bugged content whether I wanted to or not in order to get the rewards I want.

Now, I am forced to not quite speed run multiple paths that had before been avoided because of bugged, unbalanced content, inefficient rewards for the time, and other reasons whether I want to or not in order to get the rewards I want.

Both ways I’m forced to repeated run specific content over and over to get the reward I want, enjoyment of that content doesnt apply. THAT is what feels like a grind.

If the other paths were as efficient, weren’t buggy, or obscenely difficult… basically more enjoyable than the short farm paths… and were attractive enough that I CHOSE to run them instead, then that wouldnt feel as much of a grind as only having one option, and certainly less grindy than being herded by diminishing returns towards content I actively avoid now.

Anet had stated it even before game launch, that explorable mode is meant to be completed with an organized team, they even mentioned voice chat. By definition this kind of already rules out casuals, they are just not meant to do explorable, or do it and face the repair bills. This is how I understood it since the start. Citadel of Flame Magg path was a big mistake from the start, because now that it was raised to a bit more proper difficulty level (I’ve heard some people can still do it in -20 minutes without issues), the “casuals” will think anet was mean to them by making it a lot harder for pugs. Even though it was meant to be like this from the start.

CoF nerf → good thing, although rather late.

I won’t comment on the other points, although it’s fairly simple, if you don’t play the dungeon, you’re not grinding it. And there will still be people playing the dungeon, whether to grind it or to do the runs for fun with their guildies.

I appreciate your attempts at good communication here, but I really wish you could just sit in our TS for a while.

The disconnect between what we as players think of dungeons, and what you think we think about dungeons, is incredibly massive.

You say you don’t intend for them to be a grind: whereas everyone in my guild is talking about what an incredibly absurd grind they are and wondering if they are the biggest grind in any MMO.

70+ runs of the same dungeon? And mind you, you’re not getting any gear upgrades during this process. I rather agree with the decision to have max stat gear easily available but then make people do something special for the vanity looks – I just think there is a much better way to do that than a repetitious grind that would make WOW blush in shame.

How about this?

1) Vanity helm of appropriate level given out upon completion of story mode
2) Vanity gloves given out upon completion of 1 explorable wing
3) Vanity boots given out upon completion 2 explorable wings
4) Vanity Legs given out upon completion of all 3 explorable wings

Then you earn tokens for the chest, shoulders, and weapons as before.

This would cut the absurd grind required, as well as make people go through all the diferrent paths you so painstakingly created, as well as prevent people from just speed running the easiest path a million times in a tedious, repetitive grind.

ColinJohanson.2394:

As for the question about PuG’s for explorable dungeons, we’ve said all along that explorable dungeons are intended for highly organized/skilled groups of players. That is absolutely the case

Explorable dungeons were not meant for casuals….

You are killing your game. CoF changes are so hard to complete that I am not sure where to even move forward. Your change rewarded the VERY small minority of players that already completed the CoF content (or who had much of the gear and were able to quickly reclear it) and destroyed the opportunity for people who had not to work through it. The ritual chamber area is undo-able without prohibitive expense and countless attempts – I don’t understand how you can make the mobs veterans and the counter 1/2 as fast at the same time lol….

please dont Drink alcohol and patch at the same time..

this is insane i got about 1.5s rewars in CM story today first run.. and had repairs for 5s…

its supposed to be fun right now its more like “iwanna smash my keyboard” fun… dungeons are now the worst thing u can do in this game. i mean u die alot more then your economy can handle and its so frustraiting to be forced to have a respawn war against the npc just to clear a specific room in cof…

i understand your concern about the speedrun in cof and sure goahead and nerf that abit but comeon u make it so boring to run dungeons now its freaking crazy.. just a respawnfest imo…

but thx for a great game in all aspects exept for your view of the dungeons…

If Anet really wanted to prevent us from continually repeating content easily and efficiently wouldnt it make more sense to just make the dungeons themselves harder, and not actually decrease the rewards from completing them? By ramping up the difficulty you already sort of deterring people mindlessly rolling through content. I think it is absurd for them to consider putting this sort of time window on whether or not you get a full reward. We now are being punished for completing the buffed content if we are able to complete it quickly and efficiently.

Just for the record. A casual is NOT a bad player. Its a player who cant dedicate loads of time to a game. They you know…work.

As for the suggestion by Vorpal, I think its an oke start. But then you still have to do paths and get multiple legs/gloves/boots, since you need bages for all the other stuff. If for instance you would be able to turn them in for badges/salvage them it would be oke.

to bad they decided to do this 1 week before MOP. this will sting Anet for sure.

Okay, I wanted to sit down and actually do one of the dungeons before commenting on these changes. So here is what I have come up with:

1) Difficulty: AC was already stupidly hard (trash mobs are harder than the bosses, really?). CM is now horrible. As a level 72 warrior in very good gear, I was getting chain-launched and stunned and feared. I watched myself take over ten thousand damage before I could so much as get a shout off to try to heal myself. I’d go into a downed state and be dead immediately. I spent about 20 silver on that dungeon just from repairs. I did not earn enough to pay for the repair costs. I understand your desire to make dungeons challenging, but there is a line between challenging and absolutely frustrating. Getting knocked down once in a while is fine. Getting launched repeatedly and being “ganked” is facedesk-inducingly awful and I have no desire to try any of the other dungeons past CM. Period.

2) Rewards: I understand that you do not want dungeons to be the primary mode of leveling, though you said in your OP that you wanted them to be efficient for leveling. That said, how come at level 72, on my first clear of CM of the day, I only earned 5k XP? My XP bar barely even moved. This reward is NOT worth the level of effort required to complete the dungeon. I now have ZERO incentive to help my guildmates and friends clear a dungeon I’ve already done, unless they bribe me with particularly wonderful cookies. I’m not even going to try Explorable Mode until I feel the rewards are worth the effort.

3) Contradictions: In your original post you noted that you wanted to avoid a grind. You have reduced the rewards for all the dungeons while the cost of dungeon gear remains exceptionally high. Think on that a bit.

That’s all I have for now, may add more in a later post.

BTW this anti farming thing? wasnt that just a rumour? I cant find anything about it on Anet side. would be very dumb if it actually existed.

CoF is impossible to do now, it cost WAY WAY to much sicne its now either BUGGED and Greatly more difficult.

Great, so now dungeons provide even less value than they did before. They were barely even worth running considering the horrible loot before, but now they are going to be a ghost town.

ANet, you might as well just disable item and gold drops as you obviously don’t want us to ever gain money (bad loot in the world, bad loot from events, bad loot from dungeons now). The dungeons were barely worth it as it was, often you’d make a net of like 5s or less, now it’s going to be a net loss every single time.

Sunva.6485:

BTW this anti farming thing? wasnt that just a rumour? I cant find anything about it on Anet side. would be very dumb if it actually existed.

Sad to say, it’s not a rumor. Check out today’s patch notes. You get drastically reduced rewards after being in a single area for 5-10 minutes, to the point where all the mobs you kill will simply drop nothing or junk items worth only copper (even level 80 mobs).

Casual.2634:

I highly disagree with the 30 minute restriction. Why should we be punished for completing a dungeon quickly? This is absurd. Punishing rewards for consecutively running the same paths is more than enough to solve the issue.

Apparently, being an “elite” player not only means having the MADD SKILLZ to do the dungeons, having the time and a dedicated group for it, but also the ability to DRAG IT OUT because we all know, taking longer to do dungeons is a mark of your LEET SKILLZ

Dungeons aren’t meant to be a grind? Then why in the hell did you make the token costs so high?!?!!?!! It takes minimum 35 runs of an explorable for a full armour set, that is utterly ridiculous, make up your godkittenmind Anet, you make it so we can’t farm/grind these dungeons yet the gear costs so many tokens we have to grind them!!!!

I know one fix that will probably solve all of this easily. Make it so that all the paths are equally rewarded, take roughly the same amount of time and are y’know balanced properly rather than what we have at the minute, where two out of the three paths are absolutely ridiculous and one isn’t.

Regarding CoF, it was easy and quick no doubt about that, but it was worth my time in doing it due to actually getting something good out of it.

It doesn’t help when people are confused about what you want dungeons and the game to be. we can’t grind to get crafting mats and we can’t grind dungeons yet the game was touted as ‘no grind’. heck karma vendors are still completely out of whack with their costs and they aren’t even worth my time.

Trash mobs shouldn’t have more health and damage than a boss with the boss being easy as pie. If you put a good portion of karma in dungeons, one or two rare’s and some and the same amount of money and exp as well as fixing all of thekittenpaths so they’re all equally balanced with one another then none of this would have happened in the first place.

Keep them challenging. That’s perfectly fine but seriously, people need to feel as though there effort was worthwhile and if they get a chunk of blues and a green with pitiful exp and money then it’s a case of well what’s the point for the majority of people. The ‘sense of achievement’ in completing a dungeon wont run as a viable excuse for a lot of people.

I don’t like the idea of universal tokens. I want people to run the dungeons for the gear from that dungeon, not run whichever dungeon happens to be easiest 100 times.

Hell they should take this one step further and give you a first time of the day bonus for each path to encourage you to branch out and see as much dungeon content as possible instead of doing one run over and over.

The explorable dungeons are a failed experiment.

The path system does NOT work. ANet should ditch it and work on one explorable path at a time=/

basically they don’t want you guys to have a steady flow of gold.. cuz then you’d have access to gems, then no one would buy gems using real money…

if you see TP the mats for making legendary may have already gotten up cuz if i remember it right those mats are from the dungeons right ?

so you have a much more expensive mats, and you don’t have a steady fast farming place for gold anymore…

then people would be forced to buy gems for real money to exchange for gold poof! profit

this is more of a marketing strategy then saying its for you guys to explore them game more my azz..

well just my two cents

@JonPeters: You say you want to normalize the clear time, but I’ve heard multiple times that it’s by design that dungeons get harder and harder as players advance in level. I think I remember a dev post saying that Arah SHOULD take a lot longer to complete since all the other dungeons, since it’s the last dungeon and you want it to be the hardest.

Did all this change?

@Dead: they wot m8

All the changes is about wanting your money.

If all you want is for people to nor farm a single dungeon at X speed repeatedly – why not just put a cooldown on their ability to enter the dungeon so they cannot without making it impossible for people to complete it.

Consequence.2690:

If all you want is for people to nor farm a single dungeon at X speed repeatedly – why not just put a cooldown on their ability to enter the dungeon so they cannot without making it impossible for people to complete it.

Because then people wont waste their time running a dungeon for nothing.

Just went into Sorrow’s Embrace explorable with a guild group. It was everyone’s first time there. Completed the first path, received 19 silver and 130k xp. Went out, took a 5 minute break, went back in and took on the second path. It took us ~1hr15 minutes, and at the end rewarded a wopping 6.5 silver.

Whatever this anti-farming detection is, it’s not working as intended. Two different “chains” in the same dungeon are currently subject to diminishing completion rewards regardless of completion time.

tl;dr: over 1 hour, different path, still getting reduced rewards

Thank you for reacting so quickly ANet. That was a badly needed hotfix.

OK point black is this…
a team weither it is a group of randoms or guildies doesnt really matter a 30 min DG run is what we are looking for MORE xp per hour MORE gold per hour maybe a stupid consept to you but guess what WE as players do get very good at the dgs and for u to say “ol our players are just speed running” is stupid everyone doing what there specific character is designed to do IS NOT SPEED RUNNING its knowing ur character… but now lets talk about the more henderance in the dgs u put all these new champs and nerf up the bosses what not and DONT GIVE US CRAP EXCEPT A REPAIR BILL WHICH IS MORE THAT THE DG GIVES US.

sorry for all the caps
ANET is starting to sound more and more like BLIZZARD and JAGEX if i wanted to constantly grind i would go back to runescape or WoW. GW2 was suppose to be out of the ordinary according to Anet themself but its starting to turn more and more typical

Consequence.2690:

If all you want is for people to nor farm a single dungeon at X speed repeatedly – why not just put a cooldown on their ability to enter the dungeon so they cannot without making it impossible for people to complete it.

This just in, SOMEONE just suggested raid lockouts for GW2. Everyone laugh and throw rotten eggs. They never said they don’t like players doing a dungeon multiple times. Such a restriction is bullkitten. They don’t like players inflating prices by getting 22s every 10 minutes, which is huge at the current state of the game.

Let the tears flow, farming game is over. Money treadmill is out of commission. I’ve personally done this three times and never done it again, because it’s sad to do it to farm money instead of having fun

@Destin: If you’re so good at dungeons do explorable mode. Nothing nerfed there.

typical anet garbage. Nerf it into the ground. Have you guys tried cof yet? Try it and tell me this isn’tkitten Anet does not know how to balance things. They only nerf things into the ground. Good job. Not.

I agree that the cost seems to be a little too high and I think it would a good idea to make the tokens account bound. It’s understandable that max stat gear require some investment and you don’t want people to get the cool armor from just being lucky or only doing the dungeon once but the current costs seem a bit extreme for that.

That said, I find it amusing how many people are complaining about grinding a completely unnecessary task. Yeah, it may have the armor that you think looks cooler but that’s it: it looks cooler (frankly most of the dungeon armor doesn’t look that good to me). You know why I do dungeons? Because I find them fun. Unfortunately, this mentality that dungeons/raids are the end game and you do them to get the rewards no matter what is a bit too strong for some MMO players to shake.

Add in to that a lot of people find a build/strategy that works for one dungeon path but does not work for another and immediately blame balance and don’t even consider changing their approach. Not all the time certainly, but definitely a fair share of people. Granted, there are some glitched parts sometimes and I don’t doubt there are some actual issues with balance which definitely exacerbate any resentment towards this change but the entire issue is taken way overboard.

Do not post an opinion untill you try cof. You will rage i promse. It went from too easy to impossible at the part that you have to kite around untill the bomb is 100% you cant kill the mobs theykittenyou and you cant kite them either. It stacks a huge repair bill with no gains at all. Do not post an opinion untill you try it.

Whitewolf.9736:

I know one fix that will probably solve all of this easily. Make it so that all the paths are equally rewarded, take roughly the same amount of time and are y’know balanced properly rather than what we have at the minute, where two out of the three paths are absolutely ridiculous and one isn’t.

Regarding CoF, it was easy and quick no doubt about that, but it was worth my time in doing it due to actually getting something good out of it.

It doesn’t help when people are confused about what you want dungeons and the game to be. we can’t grind to get crafting mats and we can’t grind dungeons yet the game was touted as ‘no grind’. heck karma vendors are still completely out of whack with their costs and they aren’t even worth my time.

Trash mobs shouldn’t have more health and damage than a boss with the boss being easy as pie. If you put a good portion of karma in dungeons, one or two rare’s and some and the same amount of money and exp as well as fixing all of thekittenpaths so they’re all equally balanced with one another then none of this would have happened in the first place.

Keep them challenging. That’s perfectly fine but seriously, people need to feel as though there effort was worthwhile and if they get a chunk of blues and a green with pitiful exp and money then it’s a case of well what’s the point for the majority of people. The ‘sense of achievement’ in completing a dungeon wont run as a viable excuse for a lot of people.

That’s what they’re trying to do..

Dace.3985:

I agree that the cost seems to be a little too high and I think it would a good idea to make the tokens account bound. It’s understandable that max stat gear require some investment and you don’t want people to get the cool armor from just being lucky or only doing the dungeon once but the current costs seem a bit extreme for that.

That said, I find it amusing how many people are complaining about grinding a completely unnecessary task. Yeah, it may have the armor that you think looks cooler but that’s it: it looks cooler (frankly most of the dungeon armor doesn’t look that good to me). You know why I do dungeons? Because I find them fun. Unfortunately, this mentality that dungeons/raids are the end game and you do them to get the rewards no matter what is a bit too strong for some MMO players to shake.

Add in to that a lot of people find a build/strategy that works for one dungeon path but does not work for another and immediately blame balance and don’t even consider changing their approach. Not all the time certainly, but definitely a fair share of people. Granted, there are some glitched parts sometimes and I don’t doubt there are some actual issues with balance which definitely exacerbate any resentment towards this change but the entire issue is taken way overboard.

Agreed. There are obvious bugs to fix in places, but otherwise, people live in a world of relativity and can’t see beyond it. This was expected. Anyone with a brain should have seen the idea of one dungeon being easier/faster than the others being buffed to match the others. But apparently it’s not apparent to a lot of people. Oh well. Sucks for them.

This is serious? dungeons were already hard, now they’ve become even harder and the rewards not worth it? you say you don’t want the game to feel like a grind but that’s exactly what Anet is doing to it. Ridiculous prices in dungeon gear, and lowering the money you get won’t even cover de ridiculous repair prices. Dungeons are NOT fun at all, so right now i don’t see the point in doing them. What’s the point in doing story mode now? people rather party with someone who already done it to open explorable right away (oh wait, should have kept my mouth closed, now anet will take that away too.) Crazy W3 queves, i can’t even login to the game today, it loads forever, Story mode boring and pointless, Explorable with not enough rewards, repair prices ridiculous. Wake up Anet.

People just don’t get it – story mode is designed to be completed for the story and initial helmet reward. Once. Then move on to explorable. That’s the whole point of not giving any tokens for story mode.

Farming story mode is baby tier, and did not deserve 20+ silver / completion. Get over it.

And the people whining about difficulty, story mode was way too easy and repetitive to begin with, huge HP bars excluded.

This is just a bad decision overall. There’s so many other things you guys could’ve done to improve dungeons and the game overall; lower repair costs, better loot from dungeons, lower costs of max level gear; but instead you penalize and restrict players from doing things. Running CoF chain #2 was by far the easiest and most profitable but now it’s near impossible.

Vorpal.4683:

JonPeters.5630:

You should not see any diminished returns unless you.
1) Run the same exact chain over twice in a row
2) Complete multiple dungeons in 30 minutes or less each.

Point #1 is all right. #2 is batkitten insane and whoever thought it up needs to be shown the door.

You are punishing players for getting better at the game? What the hell? It’s like you took the worst grind in WOW, tripled it, removed all the gear upgrades, and then decided instead of rewarding people for completing dungeons faster, to punish them for it?

This makes no sense whatsoever.

Point #1 seems to encourage people to go run each dungeon once a day. Fine with me. #2 then punishes them for running it efficiently. Why? Why do you hate your players so much? Why would you even consider the need to punish players for being good?

Point #1 punishes players for being unimaginative and running the same thing over and over. #2 punishes them for having better gear, being more organized, and getting better at the game. I cannot understand how this proposal was considered for even a moment. I don’t know if you realize this, but the inescapable conclusion #2 gives is that someone at arena.net has a seething, boiling hatred for people who run dungeons well and quickly. There is absolutely no other way to look at this as other than a giant ‘screw you’ to people who do dungeons quickly. Doing dungeons quickly and efficiently should be something players strive TOWARDS, not shrink in fear from. Good god. How was this ever considered for even a moment?

JonPeters.5630:

Finally we reduced the value of repeating the story mode, because they are built to be easier

Whaaaat? In my experience story mode dungeons are way harder than most explorable modes (at least the ones people run) and give terrible rewards. You get a crappy helm with terrible stats and an absolutely boring skin. I’m amazed to discover you consider the problem with AC story that it gives too high a reward.

JonPeters.5630:

At this time, dungeons should one of the most efficient ways to level and get gold

Story mode dungeons seem like the least efficient way to level and get gold in the entire game. Explorable mode dungeons at level 80 with well geared people were a decent way to get gold before you nerfed it absurdly, but they need to be, because you don’t need experience at level 80 and you aren’t getting gear upgrades, so the gold is the only reason to run it.

JonPeters.5630:

and it is not our intention to make them feel like a grind.

…

Were you able to type that with a straight face?

Your dungeons are the grindiest grind in any MMO ever. They are worse than the grindiest dungeons in WOW, the king of grind. I never ran the same dungeon 70 times in WOW. And yet that’s the set up you have implemented here.

And in WOW I was not punished for doing dungeons quickly.

This so kitten much. Seems to me Anet is loving punishing people that play the game too much or are too good. Just give me a single good reason for the 30 minutes cap. Are you guys scared that a few elite players might ruin the economy? It will never happen lol, the rewards are already crap and the tokens soulbound.

Instead of making one more impossible, make the rest more possible. People don’t run the other dungeons not because CoF is sokitteneasy, but because they’re sokittenstupid. CoF wasn’t too hard, wasn’t too simple, it was great. Don’t penalize us for making the choice to run the one dungeon that doesn’t sodomize us.

@Nebilim: Are we playing the same game? What the hell do tokens have to do with anything, explorable mode was NOT nerfed at all.

The only people complaining are the ones running the same easy lines over and over for hours to cheat the system, end of story.

Now you have to play it the way it was meant to be played. Deal with it, no more easy mode for you.

Thank you for the clarification ArenaNet. It was a much needed change and please keep the explorable mode dungeons hard. I’ve done the CoF runs and what they did was incredibly necessary considering how simple that one particular path was in that dungeon.