Guild Wars 2

This is ridiculous. After this update it’s clear you are forcing people to BUY gold (gems) from your store, because there is no more substancial reward after completing dungeons.

I agree ANET should improve anti-bot settings, but this is by far the easiest, ilogical and cruel way of doing that.

Hopefully now more people will want to do the other dungeons with me (among other players who didn’t wish to be another lamb in the easy CoF) and not be so confined to their beloved path #2 CoF.

It has been a shame that the other dungeons have had such issues attracting players due to everyone focusing on the 1-2 dungeons that had a very noticeable advantage on the others.

I really look forward to playing with all of you and seeing all of the cosmetic dungeon gear boasted in the cities instead of just fiery flame everywhere.

opivm.7824:

This is ridiculous. After this update it’s clear you are forcing people to BUY gold (gems) from your store, because there is no more substancial reward after completing dungeons.

I agree ANET should improve anti-bot settings, but this is by far the easiest, ilogical and cruel way of doing that.

Why would you want to buy gems??This change just makes dungeons less worthy..noone is forcing you to do them anyway.

defi.4127:

Shiren

I suspect that, unfortunately, ArenaNet will dismiss most of the negative feedback as a knee jerk to losing the “easy” rewards

I hope they do, cause that’s exactly what this thread is full of.

How so?
How is increasing Story mode diffilculty to make it comparable to explorable, yet reduce the reward a good thing?

this thread is full of two kinds of people. people who got their stuff from dungeons and dont care about the cahnge because they dont have to be affected. And the peple who have to do twice the work others did for the same reward

darkehawke.1269:

defi.4127:

Shiren

I suspect that, unfortunately, ArenaNet will dismiss most of the negative feedback as a knee jerk to losing the “easy” rewards

I hope they do, cause that’s exactly what this thread is full of.

How so?
How is increasing Story mode diffilculty to make it comparable to explorable, yet reduce the reward a good thing?

this thread is full of two kinds of people. people who got their stuff from dungeons and dont care about the cahnge because they dont have to be affected. And the peple who have to do twice the work others did for the same reward

Reward which btw is cosmetic :P
I never found cof armor pretty looking anyway so this change is godly for me..
It increases the chanches i found group for the dungeon i want.

kostbabis.8791:

opivm.7824:

This is ridiculous. After this update it’s clear you are forcing people to BUY gold (gems) from your store, because there is no more substancial reward after completing dungeons.

I agree ANET should improve anti-bot settings, but this is by far the easiest, ilogical and cruel way of doing that.

Why would you want to buy gems??This change just makes dungeons less worthy..noone is forcing you to do them anyway.

Its dungeons today, it could be the mechanic you enjoy next time.

Its pretty much the route SWTOR took. changes made without any form of consultation thinking they knew best.

your starting to make me want my money back

Its funny though that in this mmo people cant say
“thats it i unsubscribe "
:P

kostbabis.8791:

opivm.7824:

This is ridiculous. After this update it’s clear you are forcing people to BUY gold (gems) from your store, because there is no more substancial reward after completing dungeons.

I agree ANET should improve anti-bot settings, but this is by far the easiest, ilogical and cruel way of doing that.

Why would you want to buy gems??This change just makes dungeons less worthy..noone is forcing you to do them anyway.

Less worthy? C’mon, people are spending more with armor fix than anything else… It’s not even close to LESS worthy. It’s NOT worthy.

kostbabis.8791:

darkehawke.1269:

defi.4127:

Shiren

I suspect that, unfortunately, ArenaNet will dismiss most of the negative feedback as a knee jerk to losing the “easy” rewards

I hope they do, cause that’s exactly what this thread is full of.

How so?
How is increasing Story mode diffilculty to make it comparable to explorable, yet reduce the reward a good thing?

this thread is full of two kinds of people. people who got their stuff from dungeons and dont care about the cahnge because they dont have to be affected. And the peple who have to do twice the work others did for the same reward

Reward which btw is cosmetic :P
I never found cof armor pretty looking anyway so this change is godly for me..
It increases the chanches i found group for the dungeon i want.

haha i’m not talking about CoF. or explorable. I’m talking about Story mode which had no reward apart from xp gains and now it doesnt even have that and its much harder then before :P

So you don’t want it to be a grind for gold, but you do want it to be a grind for the gear? I really want the Honor the Waves armor however due to no real Looking for Group system and it needing 1000+ tokens it’s a LONG way off if ever. I’d really like a way to get those tokens solo.

very stupid anet. actually pathetic to see you try and explain it. and wasn’t mr. peters the one talking about “knee jerk reactions” the other day? lmao.

Blighton.6425:

your starting to make me want my money back

All you enjoyed in Guild Wars 2 was chain running CoF, pretending it was like a WoW heroic? /facepalm

i actually enjoyed helping new players through the dungeons, but i cant do that anymore

I guess its time to go play another game until GW2 fixes it’s crazy dungeon balance ‘issues’

I beleive many people totally misjudged the role of these dungeons in the gw2 endgame..
Those armors offer no stat advantage compared to your normal exotics.You should farm them only if you want the looks and if you re good then to make a bunch of money.I dont think they were meant to be the ,wow style , gw2 endgame..
PLS correct me if im wrong

Just minutes ago i finished CoF Dungeon Magg part and i got rewarded by 2 silver coins which the repairs that i made was more than just 2 silver coins……..

I think it’s silly for all the QQ on here. All of you knew it was too easy, or you wouldn’t have been running it 24×7. There is a reason you didn’t chain run TA or any of the harder ones, because they are hard. Oh man they nerfed Yaks?kittennow I gotta find another way to get to 80 in 20 minutes.

This is not WOW, stop thinking it is, its not supposed to be simple, especially in the first month of its release. You shouldn’t be decked out in full end game gear 2 weeks after release, I’m glad they buffed this stuff, maybe people will learn how to play their classes instead of facerolling.

/tread imo

Can you define what you mean by difficult? Because high boss HP and damage doesn’t seem THAT difficult. I’ve certainly seen more fun encounter designs.

kostbabis.8791:

I beleive many people totally misjudged the role of these dungeons in the gw2 endgame..
Those armors offer no stat advantage compared to your normal exotics.You should farm them only if you want the looks and if you re good then to make a bunch of money.I dont think they were meant to be the ,wow style , gw2 endgame..
PLS correct me if im wrong

What about Story mode. Why on earth did they make it a lot harder and reduce the reward for that?
Story mode was not meant to be end game, it was meant to be run alongside your personal story, and it certainly isnt worth doing that now

I have done Twilight Arbor at first time and i get 13 silver, second time 3,25 silver (two different paths). Other team mates has different rewards but more, much more. HORRIBLE

These changes seem calculated to force people into disliking the game as much as possible.

by decreasing the amount of coin reward ppl will be forced to buy gems and turn it to coins…… >.>

eth.4619:

I think it’s silly for all the QQ on here. All of you knew it was too easy, or you wouldn’t have been running it 24×7. There is a reason you didn’t chain run TA or any of the harder ones, because they are hard. Oh man they nerfed Yaks?kittennow I gotta find another way to get to 80 in 20 minutes.

This is not WOW, stop thinking it is, its not supposed to be simple, especially in the first month of its release. You shouldn’t be decked out in full end game gear 2 weeks after release, I’m glad they buffed this stuff, maybe people will learn how to play their classes instead of facerolling.

/tread imo

I was farming TA…

Fay.2735:

. They aren’t there for people to make money, gear or XP.

Besides the wall of text i’d like to rant about right now but dont have time. Please slap yourself, get of your high horse and (re?!)read the anet post and you will see that in fact that IS what they are suposed to be for.

And please for the bilionth time i’ve had to make this statement for someone on the internet, understand the difference between challenging and tedious, or maybe you’re the kind of guy that would volunteer to be water boarded to just to prove you can do it?.

to paraphrase yahtzee: yes breaking a brickwall down your head will give you an imense feeling of acomplishment…. wich is just as well because you’d have lost all your other senses by then.

kostbabis.8791:

I beleive many people totally misjudged the role of these dungeons in the gw2 endgame..
Those armors offer no stat advantage compared to your normal exotics.You should farm them only if you want the looks and if you re good then to make a bunch of money.I dont think they were meant to be the ,wow style , gw2 endgame..
PLS correct me if im wrong

yes, but now how to get my cof gear skin, when I cant even finish it once?
how long will I take, if I want a set of cof gear?
and there is no silver for helping fixing my items….
is all dungeon only for hardcore player?
should I spend all my time on it?

ChairGraveyard.2967:

These changes seem calculated to force people into disliking the game as much as possible.

yeah cause thats what every game company tries to do these days
Maybe they saw their game taking a route they never wanted it to take and now they are at the process of putting it back on track??Maybe..
Btw if the only thing you enjoyed in gw2 was dungeon farming then maybe its time for something else..like MoP for example.Maybe..

Borderlands 2 on Friday, I’ll go play that for a week and wait for changes, already have my exotics, I can’t farm Orr anymore so I can’t afford the racial tier 3 Asura light armour cosmetic gear because apart from dungeon gear the rest of the light armour looks god awful, I don’t have 2-3 hours to throw into a dungeon that will actually cost me gold to do! And tbh I would rather smash my face onto the desk than do the explorable dungeons, your screwed when one person leaves and you need to reset to get another one in, it’s been 3 week c’mon at least fix that for christ sake.

I haven’t played the changes yet, but I doubt they will effect me too much. My guild plays pretty casually, we usually only run 1-2 dungeons a night. Though, that might change soon as people get higher level.

The main thing I don’t understand is “we don’t want it to feel like a grind”, yet everything in the game is 100% grind. 20 slot bags have a 10g cost from a vendor bought material … really now? So one stupid bag is equal to buying 3-4 exotic pieces of armor?

You have Karma gear that costs over 40k, really, that isn’t grindy?

You have overall ridiculous costs of many things, including way point costs and repairs. You think reducing the money you get from dungeons (for which I pretty much always get crap loot) is going to make it better? I know some people that have died 10+ times in dungeons, it is going to make then simply not want to do it at all. This isn’t even mentioning that you have to run the same dungeon like 50 times to get the armor from it … what if you want multiple weapons? Running the same crap 100 times isn’t a grind? I have never had to do that in any game, at least, not wanted to.

I am basically 100% broke all the time since hitting 80 recently. I just got 3 crafts to 400, and am working on making my “end game” exotic gear. I have bought some gems with in-game gold to get bank slots and what not though. And it doesn’t help that the TB is full of the mostkitten consumers on the planet (almost everything on there is selling at a loss … the mats are worth more than thekittenitems, fools, stop posting them up for so cheap!). /sigh

The letter you get at 40 should just say

“Hey there noticed you hit level 40, want to come to CM, get yourkitten kicked, get frustrated, quit the dungeon so your group has to reset it, by the way you getkitten all reward for it and a massive repair bill, come come enjoy our content, oh hahaha you can’t because all your ever looking at is the map so you can waypoint and run back, have fun! See you in game kittenface!”

This is the worst idea ever. The travelling expenses alone cost too much for the state of the games economy. This nerf is very stupid and makes a huge gap between players who have CoF gear and those that dont. It is gear that prepares you for the overpowered Arah instance which pretty much noone is able to do. Reducing the silver cost and increasing the time was frankly a bullkitten move. Now we port around and repair our armour using more money then what we gained.

Thank you for listening to the terrible players who wanted to ruin the game Arena-net, and making this wonderful time for everyone else.

CoF was fun because a lot of people were doing it. Now nobody wants to do dungeons because they just don’t give the reward necessary to make it worthwhile. What’s so wrong with getting the equipment we want earlier? This isn’t a subscription game anyway. I’d rather farm ALL dungeons if they were as good as the previous CoF and complete every single set. CoF was only good for getting exotic armors. People are gonna transmute them anyway after they get their CoF set and have some time to actually farm the ones they REALLY like.

So, help me understand this. From the wiki edit history CoF used to award 26s on first completion and 15s on subsequent runs. It now says it awards 5s on subsequent runs. Do you get the 26s for each unique path? When does it reset and consider it a unique run?

JonPeters.5630:

If you run the exact same chain twice in a row you will have your rewards cut. This means you can bounce back and forth between 2 different chains, even in the same dungeon without ever hitting this change. This change is made to encourage people to try different chains.

As a fellow game designer, I would’ve thought you’d know better than this. You are not encouraging a player to do one thing by punishing them for doing another. All you’re doing is punishing them. Encouragement involves providing incentives, which you’ve failed to do. I can make it really simple for you:

Each chain in an explorable dungeon should have a once-a-day bonus for completion (You already do this, which is good)
Each chain should have its own potential rare drops (Just because you have a token system doesn’t mean there can’t also be unique skins dropped from the bosses/chests themselves)
Completing all 3 chains (This one is important) once per day gains another bonus amount of tokens and money

That’s what you want, right? You want players to actually go through every path in the dungeon, at least I assumed that’s what you want. That 3rd part encourages players to run every path each day rather than picking the easiest and running it over and over again. The 2nd part ensures that even when they’ve gotten their token gear, they still might come back for the chance for those exotic drops from the bosses.

Oh and lets add a fourth, and you can even pick which method you like the best:

Each path is equal in terms of time/effort spent and reward given.

OR

Some paths may require significantly more time and effort, but offer more rewards to compensate.

I mean, it’s pretty obvious, even if you want them to play for the fun of it. If one path takes 30 minutes and one takes 4 hours, they’re gonna pick the 30 minute one. You knew this right? When you were testing dungeons (please tell me you at least closed beta tested them all), you saw that some paths took significantly longer than others. But for whatever reason you chose to make them all have the same reward. Did you not think people would pick the easiest route? I really hope this is just a lack of testing on the end game content, and you all really have a plan to get this through…but I’m significantly worried at this point, and it appears the rest of your community is as well.

More of, “WE know how YOU want to play OUR game”

aka: crappy devs

eth.4619:

Blighton.6425:

your starting to make me want my money back

All you enjoyed in Guild Wars 2 was chain running CoF, pretending it was like a WoW heroic? /facepalm

no actually i haven’t ran CoF yet, although i want the armor set from there.

this game is becoming a far cry from what they advertised. as a Class doesnt matter Grind less game.

its becoming nothing more then a " Buy gems to get out of your starter gear "

its entirely plausible that the Gem/Gold exchange is company manipulated to bring the conversion down to the point where its not worth converting to Gems at all.

“At this time, dungeons should one of the most efficient ways to level and get gold, and it is not our intention to make them feel like a grind.”

Since it wont let me quote this post (its from Jon Peters), and since there is a typo in this post, was it suppose to read {At this time, dungeons should NOT be one of the most efficient ways to level and get gold} ~or~ was it to be {At this time, dungeons should be one of the most efficient ways to level and get gold} From what you folks have done with the dungeons I’m going to go with the first one, if it truely is the second one, well then you’ve kinda shot yourselves in the foot with the nerf.

VoiceOfUnreason.5976:

JonPeters.5630:

If you run the exact same chain twice in a row you will have your rewards cut. This means you can bounce back and forth between 2 different chains, even in the same dungeon without ever hitting this change. This change is made to encourage people to try different chains.

As a fellow game designer, I would’ve thought you’d know better than this. You are not encouraging a player to do one thing by punishing them for doing another. All you’re doing is punishing them. Encouragement involves providing incentives, which you’ve failed to do. I can make it really simple for you:

Each chain in an explorable dungeon should have a once-a-day bonus for completion (You already do this, which is good)
Each chain should have its own potential rare drops (Just because you have a token system doesn’t mean there can’t also be unique skins dropped from the bosses/chests themselves)
Completing all 3 chains (This one is important) once per day gains another bonus amount of tokens and money

That’s what you want, right? You want players to actually go through every path in the dungeon, at least I assumed that’s what you want. That 3rd part encourages players to run every path each day rather than picking the easiest and running it over and over again. The 2nd part ensures that even when they’ve gotten their token gear, they still might come back for the chance for those exotic drops from the bosses.

Oh and lets add a fourth, and you can even pick which method you like the best:

Each path is equal in terms of time/effort spent and reward given.

OR

Some paths may require significantly more time and effort, but offer more rewards to compensate.

I mean, it’s pretty obvious, even if you want them to play for the fun of it. If one path takes 30 minutes and one takes 4 hours, they’re gonna pick the 30 minute one. You knew this right? When you were testing dungeons (please tell me you at least closed beta tested them all), you saw that some paths took significantly longer than others. But for whatever reason you chose to make them all have the same reward. Did you not think people would pick the easiest route? I really hope this is just a lack of testing on the end game content, and you all really have a plan to get this through…but I’m significantly worried at this point, and it appears the rest of your community is as well.

That’s the point.

Wrong wrong wrong wrong.

Dungeons are now a terrible way to get money now, they don’t even come close to roaming around doing the big world events that have a lot of minion farm during them.

The only reason to do them is to farm the tokens, which will be painstakingly slow due to the drastic increase in difficulty, unless you have a team with a solid class composition, dungeon running spec, dungeon running gear, etc.

If the difficulty had been increased, but the rewards had been left the same or increased with it, that would be ok, personally I prefer something that’s easier to pug run and just relax during, but whatever, still good. If the rewards had been nerfed, but speed running dungeons was still fairly doable, again, not too big a deal, at least I could do it occasionally and still get similar rewards to just waltzing around the world.

That isn’t what happened though, the reward is practically zilch if you die a lot, which is likely because the difficulty is much higher, and the run is much longer because of higher mob HP (and slower events?)

IMO, the solution is to bump back the rewards to higher than they were before, have the reward for following the same path become reduced for 2-4 hours after completing it. Also adjust rewards for estimated path length, so that it doesn’t really matter which path you do, you get a pretty large reward for it.

Also reduce monster HP a bit, but tweak damage levels so it isn’t so long, I mean, I’m really not opposed to it being hard, dying a lot for idiotic mistakes, etc, I don’t think most people want to run dungeons that are just /long/ though. Dungeons are just more fun when they’re bite sized.

So the problem with reducing Story Mode rewards, is that experienced players now have NO INCENTIVE to complete it. Thereby making pick up groups for new players harder. Soon when you have a veteran population, new players won’t be able to find a group to do the story mode with.

This is not a good move for the game. Do a similar timer to what you guys are doing for explorable or something but let there be a reason to do Story Mode.

icechai.2079:

So the problem with reducing Story Mode rewards, is that experienced players now have NO INCENTIVE to complete it. Thereby making pick up groups for new players harder. Soon when you have a veteran population, new players won’t be able to find a group to do the story mode with.

This is not a good move for the game. Do a similar timer to what you guys are doing for explorable or something but let there be a reason to do Story Mode.

Absolutely this!
They didnt just reduce the rewards either, they ramped up the tediousness of it

opivm.7824:

That’s the point.

Obviously the point was to stop people from running the 30 minute dungeon. What I’m saying is that it’s the wrong mindset. Not everyone has the time, or the desire to run a 4 hour dungeon, but they love to run the 30 minute one. So why not lessen the reward of the 30 minute and increase the reward of the 4 hour? All they’ve done thus far is cripple the reward of running ANYTHING multiple times, but that doesn’t even remotely address the underlying issue. It’s more like a hotfix to prevent players from going too fast.

Universal tokens are a fantastic idea. I’m kind of surprised that Anet didn’t implement this in the first place. Players should have choices in how they earn their cosmetic gear; with universal tokens you could choose to run the same dungeon 50 times or you could just play every dungeon out there. Variety is the spice of life after all.

ArenaNet,

Call it “Overzealous”.
Revert it back to original.
Increase token price.
Cut down on loot drops.
Watch people squirm a little, but get on with it.

Problem solved.

I just realized what they did. This no subscription with some cash shop buys here and there ok good the economy is in flux not to bad. The are learning other game companies that need instances or have set times you can enter because we all live on the wet coast yeah. This is soooo smart making hard fights harder saying go out into the world that has so many bugged quests and farming mobs = little return as to what you spend to farm them. Love this thanks ANet you made this game so much better or me.
Now my girlfriend will see me even more often. Won’t spend 3-4 hours anight trying to run CoF or other instances nooope. Think I’ll go read a book or watch that series about hick vampires.

The trouble is running out of anything that feels good to do in the game.

WvW is out for hours long queues only to DC and queue again.
Crafting.. well if you like it, I guess.

I’ve been really disappointed that I’ve still never seen anything like the Shadow Behemoth in starter zone. Dynamic events that aren’t.

and now this.

So much disappointment, having previously been enthusiastic about this. It’s not just the $79 × 3 plus gem store costs for the 3 of us in my family. But rather the hope that ANet’s actions might match their words, not just hype.

I never once saw something advertised that this was a completely grindless game, I saw that you didn’t need to grind to have an edge.

Which is completely true, and remains true.

As a casual 1-2 hr/night gamer, I really struggle to see how this is going to impact my playstyle. So far I’ve only done story modes through Sorrow’s, and have done a single Explore of the Catacombs, and they’ve all been really fun for the sake of being fun. I enjoy the group struggle, the need to switch up tactics, etc. If somewhere in the middle of the dungeon I get some good karma, exp, loot, silver, whatever, then even more awesome.

What every single bad post on here reflects is the WoW mentality. “I’m not going to do X part of your game unless I’m rewarded.” If it’s too expensive for me in repair/transport costs, or takes too much time to get a reward I could get for less time elsewhere, or the reward itself I’ve deemed insufficient/ugly/useless, then I’m not doing the dungeon.

It is, in fact, the most bizarre response I’ve ever heard to a video game. I can’t imagine applying that rule to any other genre, because most people are capable of playing a game and letting the enjoyment of playing that game be its own reward. The feeling of beating the gravelings after about 30 tries, by constantly switching our skills, traits, strategies, divisions. Or of having to suddenly switch my entire necro build mid-dungeon because a golem boss eats conditions for breakfast.

If you need a paycheck to play a video game, it’s work. You shouldn’t be playing it.

The changes today have taken away any fun from doing dungeons, then to kick us when we’re down they reduce the reward to match the reduced fun levels

@Cy Pres, I don’t think you get it. It now costs you money to run these dungeons. They are literally a losing proposition every time. Personally, if I wanted to spend an hour or more on a dungeon only to be robbed of silver, I’d rather just go throw it away at the mystic forge instead.

There is now zero incentive (and in fact, a huge disincentive) to run dungeons because you literally lose money every time.

At this time, dungeons should one of the most efficient ways to level and get gold, and it is not our intention to make them feel like a grind.

Then maybe you can consider reducing the dungeon armor token costs.

46 runs for one set of armor is quite a grind, even if you have three paths to go. It feels fun the first 10-15 times, and the feeling of mastering the dungeon and making no mistakes during it at all is great, but then it’s just tedious. You’ve seen it all and you know every corner and every little thing.