Guild Wars 2

As to the kicking of someone not following your meta, you arent really getting that the other group of people is different than you.

If I clearly specify “zerker”, and especially “zerker meta ping gear on join” then those people should not even be joining. If they get kicked it is an automatic response triggered by the rules I have already set, and they will be the ones to bear responsibility for hard feelings, not me.

Ideally you want to create a system for dungeons that can please both groups, so that more people can enjoy dungeons, and they can make more of them, because so many people want to do them.

GW2 seems to have intentionally chosen to not segregate its casual and hardcore communities. Because of that you will run into problems (ones that you alluded to in your earlier posts in this thread) that other games avoid because they do a better job of separating the communities from each other.

different party systems

Some exploitable kinks probably need to be ironed out, but it’s not a bad idea. Unfortunately it will never get implemented as it would officially separate the community in the same way that /inspect or meters would.

It’s abundantly clear the LFG needs filters.
People who want casual groups don’t want to join those who use the filters.
Those who use the filters won’t find their LFG bugged/suppressed because people who don’t bother to read or fit req keep joining.

Give players the tools to avoid people with whom they could have confrontation and we all win.

Artemis Thuras.8795:

People who want casual groups don’t want to join those who use the filters.

I think that actually “casual” people do want to join the groups with filters, so they can be carried. They just don’t want the “serious” groups to have a way of filtering them out.

And as many people here point out, it’s easy to start a group as “no skips, all welcome”. But in practice anyone who does that in an explorable will likely be quitting after a few wipes, unless someone is carrying.

Dungeons are hard compared to most of GW2. You get better, or you get carried. I suspect Anet are trying to pretend this isn’t so, because admitting the issue and doing something about it would belie their “friendliest community in gaming” image.

fishball.7204:

I’ve legit never seen a pug group blast smoke like ever. Maybe I’m just unlucky but it’s stuff like that which irks me when pugging :S

The worst is when you are the thief and you put a smokefield down. Then the two eles in the group just stand there and the warrior uses a single warhorn blast.

Its no good knowing how to be better than the pug thieves because noone will blast your smoke fields. So you are forced to SR almost every skip or leave them behind when stealth runs out too quickly. Which is why i started pugging it on ele and just hoped for some smoke fields.

Morte.5916:

Artemis Thuras.8795:

People who want casual groups don’t want to join those who use the filters.

I think that actually “casual” people do want to join the groups with filters, so they can be carried. They just don’t want the “serious” groups to have a way of filtering them out.

And then wonder why they get kicked all the time.
Clearly they need saving from themselves

Artemis Thuras.8795:

Morte.5916:

Artemis Thuras.8795:

People who want casual groups don’t want to join those who use the filters.

I think that actually “casual” people do want to join the groups with filters, so they can be carried. They just don’t want the “serious” groups to have a way of filtering them out.

And then wonder why they get kicked all the time.
Clearly they need saving from themselves

Zerkers are pre-programmed stacking farm bots, didn’t you know? No way they’re going to notice a casual leeching the run.

spoj.9672:

fishball.7204:

I’ve legit never seen a pug group blast smoke like ever. Maybe I’m just unlucky but it’s stuff like that which irks me when pugging :S

The worst is when you are the thief and you put a smokefield down. Then the two eles in the group just stand there and the warrior uses a single warhorn blast.

Its no good knowing how to be better than the pug thieves because noone will blast your smoke fields. So you are forced to SR almost every skip or leave them behind when stealth runs out too quickly. Which is why i started pugging it on ele and just hoped for some smoke fields.

I think communication is key here dudes…

I pug 50 fotm a lot on engi. On a fractal like the asura harpy one, I often use bomb 4 if we have no teef to stealth. I can usually switch out utilities and use elixir s to get around 12-15 seconds alone, but if I just ask in chat often people will blast for me.

This is especially true with napalm on flamethrower. I just call it out and pugs always blast.

phys.7689:

Its all about the party mode.

• kicking requires 3/5
• leaving 4 times a day gives a penalty
• cool dude commendations can be handed out on completion, which serves no real purpose other than unlocking some titles related to being an easy going adventurer
• kicking for reasons other than harrassment, afk, offline etc are actionable offenses.
• vote abandon everyone leaves with no leaving penalty

I think it suppose to be already 3/5 for kick, but something don’t work and Gaile didn’t came back with an answer on that yet. WTH leaving 4 times a day give you a penalty. What If I need to go 30min for a IRL situation, I’ll quit the party to give my place. What if I want to give my place to one of my friend in the middle of the run? (did that on Arah path 4, helped my guildmate up to mid dungeon, then gave my place to a friend who never did it before). What if there is no abuse, but just disagreement in the dungeon and I want to leave, because it’s no fun? What if the party wasn’t what I expected and its a bad party that take forever to complete stuff? Same with the kicking thing. What If I asked for path 2 and 3 in the LFG because we are 4 of my guild. We complete path 2, then start path 3 and a guildmate get online. If we started the dungeon I’ll complete it with the pug, but if we only entered the path, i’ll ask him to leave or kick him while explaining to him why. And how this will work? You could obviously quit a party outside a dungeon so it would only be when you are inside the dungeon that the restriction would appear? Could I just quit the instance and then quit the party without penalty? If yes the quitting policy is useless, if no then that mean that I can’t switch character in the middle of a run?

phys.7689:

And thats the bottom line mode

• kicking is instituted by leader and seconded
• leader can be changed by 4/5 vote
• leader changes on DC by vote, or order of joining.
• leaving, no penalty? (not sure if this would be good, im assuming yes)
• Each person can give 1 person master of execution commendation on completion which serves no other purpose other than unlocking some titles related to being an effecient adventurer. (and probably end up as a kind of badge on how good you are in elite circles)
• kicking isnt actionable unless its greifing

I’m ok with most of that. But the master of execution commendation. Na. ‘’Elite circles’’ (Whatever that mean) will take care of their own things, if anet install something like that it will be worthless.

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

spoj.9672:

fishball.7204:

I’ve legit never seen a pug group blast smoke like ever. Maybe I’m just unlucky but it’s stuff like that which irks me when pugging :S

The worst is when you are the thief and you put a smokefield down. Then the two eles in the group just stand there and the warrior uses a single warhorn blast.

Its no good knowing how to be better than the pug thieves because noone will blast your smoke fields. So you are forced to SR almost every skip or leave them behind when stealth runs out too quickly. Which is why i started pugging it on ele and just hoped for some smoke fields.

I think communication is key here dudes…

I pug 50 fotm a lot on engi. On a fractal like the asura harpy one, I often use bomb 4 if we have no teef to stealth. I can usually switch out utilities and use elixir s to get around 12-15 seconds alone, but if I just ask in chat often people will blast for me.

This is especially true with napalm on flamethrower. I just call it out and pugs always blast.

Oh dont worry im not overlooking communication. The thieves never listen to “we can use a smoke field ive got lots of blasts” and most groups never listen when i say use blasts on my smoke field. I had a thief who was talking to the group a lot and linking SR when he was using it. I asked him a number of times if he could use a smokefield instead of waiting for SR but he kept insisting on waiting for SR cooldown and ignoring my suggestions. Dungeon pugs are really bad at communication, especially in CM. If you are pugging fractal 50 you are only going to get players with atleast some level of communication which is why it works out alright most of the time there.

Thaddeus.4891:

phys.7689:

Its all about the party mode.

• kicking requires 3/5
• leaving 4 times a day gives a penalty
• cool dude commendations can be handed out on completion, which serves no real purpose other than unlocking some titles related to being an easy going adventurer
• kicking for reasons other than harrassment, afk, offline etc are actionable offenses.
• vote abandon everyone leaves with no leaving penalty

I think it suppose to be already 3/5 for kick, but something don’t work and Gaile didn’t came back with an answer on that yet. WTH leaving 4 times a day give you a penalty. What If I need to go 30min for a IRL situation, I’ll quit the party to give my place. What if I want to give my place to one of my friend in the middle of the run? (did that on Arah path 4, helped my guildmate up to mid dungeon, then gave my place to a friend who never did it before). What if there is no abuse, but just disagreement in the dungeon and I want to leave, because it’s no fun? What if the party wasn’t what I expected and its a bad party that take forever to complete stuff? Same with the kicking thing. What If I asked for path 2 and 3 in the LFG because we are 4 of my guild. We complete path 2, then start path 3 and a guildmate get online. If we started the dungeon I’ll complete it with the pug, but if we only entered the path, i’ll ask him to leave or kick him while explaining to him why. And how this will work? You could obviously quit a party outside a dungeon so it would only be when you are inside the dungeon that the restriction would appear? Could I just quit the instance and then quit the party without penalty? If yes the quitting policy is useless, if no then that mean that I can’t switch character in the middle of a run?

phys.7689:

And thats the bottom line mode

• kicking is instituted by leader and seconded
• leader can be changed by 4/5 vote
• leader changes on DC by vote, or order of joining.
• leaving, no penalty? (not sure if this would be good, im assuming yes)
• Each person can give 1 person master of execution commendation on completion which serves no other purpose other than unlocking some titles related to being an effecient adventurer. (and probably end up as a kind of badge on how good you are in elite circles)
• kicking isnt actionable unless its greifing

I’m ok with most of that. But the master of execution commendation. Na. ‘’Elite circles’’ (Whatever that mean) will take care of their own things, if anet install something like that it will be worthless.

the penalty doesnt need to be like banning, it can just be like you cant use the grouping tool for a half hour. if a person is leaving groups 5+ times a day but doesnt want to wait a half hour before returning, i think they may be a serial leaver.

as for the commendations, it serves no other purpose other than a cool little thing that doesnt matter that much. They have it in that other game, and it basically tends to make people slightly more engaged i think.
It could be taken out.
However i think some elite groups will use those titles as measure of things, they did it before in gw1, and the ap people do it now

phys.7689:

the penalty doesnt need to be like banning, it can just be like you cant use the grouping tool for a half hour. if a person is leaving groups 5+ times a day but doesn’t want to wait a half hour before returning, i think they may be a serial leaver.

On days that i play for a longer time, this would affect me a lot. I can see me leave 5 groups very easily. This is bullkitten, forcing ppl to play together for no other reason that you feel that the community is harsh. There is A LOT of situation when what you propose would be terrible.

Thaddeus.4891:

phys.7689:

the penalty doesnt need to be like banning, it can just be like you cant use the grouping tool for a half hour. if a person is leaving groups 5+ times a day but doesn’t want to wait a half hour before returning, i think they may be a serial leaver.

On days that i play for a longer time, this would affect me a lot. I can see me leave 5 groups very easily. This is bullkitten, forcing ppl to play together for no other reason that you feel that the community is harsh. There is A LOT of situation when what you propose would be terrible.

you can ask the party to vote kick you and get no penalty for leaving.

It works in another game i play.
but the bias should actually be towards playing together,
thats why people join a group. If you are leaving groups 5 times a day, and the people of the party dont want you to, they probably would have been better off, if you didnt join.

notice, the entire point of the its all about the party mode, is that its more about the party,

i didnt put that into the effecient mode because that is about being effecient with your time, and i think people there wouldnt mind? not really sure.

anyhow, these are just my ideas, they arent set in stone, and probably would never happen, but yeah i dont think its an unfair system.

keep in mind you wouldnt be locked out from dungeons just one tab in the group finder, for 30 minutes, i dont think its that big a deal

I agree, never see that in other mmo..
i think in other mmo will help to see the spreadsheet with dps, heal etc etc, in gw2 the only stuff we have is do it faster… so ppl kick just because of AP or role.. meta killed the funny in this game, everything is focussed on speed…
So you will skip mobs, even mid bosses like ac, the only purpose is do it fast…

Why…. do you put… after everything…?

Do you talk like that in real life? With long pauses? If so you should do exercises to increase your wit and clarity of thought and expression.

Asaghon.8346:

Alot of times you can tell what kind of party your getting in to from the message you see in lfg. I never join any party that demands me to be or have anything specific. Parties asking for berserkers, specific class or amount of ap can go crawl back under the rock they came from. Anyone demanding something from someone else is probably not such a good playeras (s)he himself thinks. Even when I meet the requirements, I’d rather wait for another group then join that one.

I really want to address this misconception.

If a player demands something from someone else why must it result that he’s not really a good player?

What if he is a good player but just wants to play with other good players and have a really smooth run instead of having to deal with the mistakes of not so good players.

I consider myself to be a good player when it comes to dungeons.
I prefer playing with other good players. This is not because I couldn’t manage or face the situations that would arise if a less skilled or inexperienced player did something wrong but because I don’t want to.
Why should I cover anyone else’s mistakes? Why should I waste the time and the effort when I can play with other good players and have a smooth run with no mistakes done.

Even if a player is godlike-good and can clear the dungeon by himself – the question remains – why should he play with worse players and put greater strain on himself when he could play with players of equal skill and have an easier and faster run?

Personally -regardless of other people’s opinions I dislike carrying people. So I don’t do it. If a player is bad I’ll more likely kick than carry because I don’t feel I’m obliged to do it in any way.

I got good by playing. I played a lot, I read a lot about the game a lot and watched a lot of people that played better than me. I tried, failed, tried again and got slightly better. Over and over and over again until I got to where I am.

Why should I use all that effort just to breeze someone else through content?

phys.7689:

While a party focused on effeciency, the general feeling of kicking someone may be to maximize effeciency, the people who join an open party, or who may enjoy doing killing crap and taking down big bosses with a bit of a challenge and a bit of a social element are less focused on effeciency.
they are more focused on having a situation of bonding with people through adventure(and winning). If that is your purpose than kicking someone is a strong blow to that.

kicking someone is the end of any social interaction with them, the final blow. And generally seeing that happen doesnt make people feel more social,
unless the guy was such a big jerk that they bond through hatred of him.

Im not saying anyone has to take my viewpoint, im more trying to explain, that some people have these viewpoints, and people who are less focused on the bottomline, are more likely to be these types. And that may be why a lot of them feel alienated in dungeons, or like they shouldnt bother.

Ideally you want to create a system for dungeons that can please both groups, so that more people can enjoy dungeons, and they can make more of them, because so many people want to do them.

And here’s where the problem is.
The “social element”. You see – while for a new or inexperienced player a dungeon might be a social environment for the majority of the speed run zerker meta players this isn’t the case.

I don’t run dungeons for the social element. I do it for the rewards.
Speaking for myself – some of my best runs have been runs in which everyone did their job exactly as they should have, nobody said a word and we got through the content as fast as possible. No words exchanged, no hassle, no time lost.

Ideally you want to create a system for dungeons that can please both groups, so that more people can enjoy dungeons, and they can make more of them, because so many people want to do them.

You can’t do that. Because some players play for the social aspect, others play for the exploration and challenge ( since the content poses a challenge to them) while others only play for rewards.

These conflicting goals regarding the same content are the reason you can’t create a system that pleases all groups.
They want fundamentally different things from the same content.

Some want a challenge.
Some want to hang out with other people and chat and socially bond.
Some want those rewards as fast as possible.

As far as I’m concerned the vast majority of the time I run dungeons I wouldn’t mind if the other 4/5 entities in my party were NPCs as long as they did their job flawlessly.
In fact I would prefer it if it meant not having to deal with the random failures of random people.

That’s because I play dungeons for rewards – if they took the rewards away from dungeons I doubt i’d ever touch that content again.

Relevant for those that dorm in college: Remember how you have to fill out that roommate preference sheet? Well anyways I was brutally honest and said that I was a nerd and love video games, they paired me up with another dude who loved video games and he was a really good roommate. LFG needs a filtering system so you get the best possible teammates you can get. I mean kitten if I got stuck rooming with a pothead that listens to heavy metal all day I would’ve flipped the kitten out.
TL:DU zerker speed clearers and people who love to take their time are just too different and can’t mingle well, introduce a LFG system that resolves this like the stuff that are suggested from that FF XIV system or some other system that allows filtering.

phys.7689:

split for formatting
And i do think the key is probably to have the game better manage expectations, and create channels that give a soft seperation between the players with different focuses.

perhaps they could have some formalized lfg settings with different rule systems/expectations

Its all about the party mode.

• kicking requires 3/5
• leaving 4 times a day gives a penalty
• cool dude commendations can be handed out on completion, which serves no real purpose other than unlocking some titles related to being an easy going adventurer
• kicking for reasons other than harrassment, afk, offline etc are actionable offenses.
• vote abandon everyone leaves with no leaving penalty

this would be the default mode, and you would have to click a different button to see the other mode.

And thats the bottom line mode

• kicking is instituted by leader and seconded
• leader can be changed by 4/5 vote
• leader changes on DC by vote, or order of joining.
• leaving, no penalty? (not sure if this would be good, im assuming yes)
• Each person can give 1 person master of execution commendation on completion which serves no other purpose other than unlocking some titles related to being an effecient adventurer. (and probably end up as a kind of badge on how good you are in elite circles)
• kicking isnt actionable unless its greifing

This alone would probably create a clear delination of what the purpose is, and what to expect, while you can do this by writing stuff lfg, there is still a lot of confusion, and just a different understanding of purpose. Also these two different groups probably need a different rule set governing them.
newer adventurers, or more relaxed players who dont dungeon a lot, might give dungeons another try if there is a mode dedicated to just going in there and doing a dungeon with some people.

Your solution just replaces some problems with different problems. Here are a few anecdotes:

1. Susan has a five and a seven year old. Her kids are past the age where they need constant watch. And it’s a school day. But she has chores to do. So she runs dungeons during the times when she can. Like between steps of doing laundry. But it can take time to deal with laundry, so she leaves. She does two loads of laundry that day so she ends up leaving dungeons twice. Then the kids come home, but that’s a known time so she’s not in a dungeon at the moment. She hops in later but has to leave when one of her kids needs homework help. Then she had to leave later that night because one kid starting feeling sick. She then can’t do anymore dungeons because she left 4 that day already. And no, she can’t wait for someone to kick her. Laundry gets wrinkled, and well, kids come first. Your leaving 4 times rule punishes her.

2. Johnny only has an hour to do dungeons. As such he posts a requirement for people to be level 80 and experienced. He doesn’t have time to teach. A person joins who is level 60 and new to the path. Johnny asks him to leave as he doesn’t have time to teach or have the lowered DPS. The person says he has every right to be there. Johnny kicks him. Person reports Johnny for inappropriate kicking. Johnny ends up suspended all because he enforced his LFG posting. He posted an LFG asking for X and gets suspended because he tried to enforce it? That’s crazy. If that was supposed to be the case, why have a spot for descriptions for LFG’s at all? Might as well just have a check box that asks what dungeon you want to do and it randomly puts you into a group with others. Because that’s what this rule comes down to.

Your solution just replaces a perceived problem (kicking people who don’t fit the requirement is not a problem) with two worse problems. Punishing players who have to leave immediately, but do the polite thing and leave the group before signing off. And punishing players who post a requirement and then try to enforce it.

Seera.5916:

Mirta.5029:

don’t say it until you’ve tried it.

Caeledh never said they didn’t try.

Thanks for beating me to it Seera. You’re right. To Mirta consider taking your own advice. Try getting into or starting your own group at my play times.

Obviously I’ve tried it. One time I sat there with only one other player joining for almost half an hour (longer than it takes to do the speed run) before we gave up and joined a zerker group – pretty much instantly.

So like I’ve said repeatedly I don’t join those groups by preference. At some times of the day it’s my only option.

Dave.2536:

GW2 seems to have intentionally chosen to not segregate its casual and hardcore communities.

I never use those terms – because it’s obviously a derogatory distinction decided upon by the so-called hardcore crowd – but yes I do see that problem in GW2.

There’s a lot of content which by design lends itself really well to most players. Then there’s other content which lends itself just as well to the more competitive crowd. Then there’s content like dungeons – mainly due to speed runs – which the game encourages both crowds to do thanks to how much gold, tokens, loot they dish out. That’s probably at the heart of this problem.

One of the few design mistakes I think the game makes (in various ways) is trying to force these distinct communities together.

Let’s be honest, dungeons are a form of daily. They’re on a daily account cooldown.
Wouldn’t it be better for everyone if instead of dungeons being speed-run’able there were other daily PvE (including dungeons) and PvP targets which dished out comparable rewards.

That way everyone could play content they actually enjoy for those rewards.

phys.7689:

no offense intended, and it isnt everyone, but the fact that more than half the people in a thread were supporting kicking people for watching cutscenes during a story dungeon (which means its unlikely it was advertised as speed run) Heck even the guy who is supposed to be your representitive to anet said that kicking people for watching cutscenes in a story dungeon, which by the way is intended to be for story, and has less rewards than other dungeons for this purpose, is perfectly cool.

That told me a lot about the dungeon community, although there were some people, like yourself i believe, who said it probably was kitten move.

I see your point but I don’t think it’s fair to judge the dungeon community for it.

My view – pretty much every run is a speed run. Unless specifically advertised in the LFG as not a speed run (almost never see that) then it’s a speed run. I do hate that I’ve only done one dungeon run where I’ve had the freedom to watch the cutscenes but I figure I’ll watch them all on youtube one day.

That sucks a bit but it’s not the community’s fault. This is absolutely a game design issue. As I and have others have pointed out dungeons are a primary source of gold, fragments and other key resources. As much as it sucks for players new to that dungeon it’s also not unreasonable for players to want to get their shinies as quickly as possible.

phys.7689:

now maybe the OP was lying, or whatever, but peoples argument in the thread amounted to, my way or the high way, because i said so, they kept talking about what the others should follow what the group says, and ignored the fact that it only takes 2 people to kick someone, so its not even necessarilly a majority that wanted a kick.

You don’t really say about what, but I haven’t lied. Not my style.

So to run through the possibilities – no I’m not an idiot, unskilled, under-geared etc. I’ve done many successful speed runs without incident. I’ve been on the receiving end of abuse once and it really wasn’t my fault. kitten often happens – in games and the real world – the idiot who kept screwing up chose to loudly and aggressively blame someone else.

What drove me to start the thread was a conversation with a random player after doing Tequatl where they were asking about the best ways to make money and wouldn’t even consider doing dungeons because of their experience. And I know what they’re talking about because while you don’t see it in every run, you see it often enough. It’s both worse than what I’ve seen in any other MMO and almost the polar opposite of what you see elsewhere in the game.

Caeledh.5437:

It’s both worse than what I’ve seen in any other MMO and almost the polar opposite of what you see elsewhere in the game.

Go try ranked pvp.
Like dungeons its one of the few places your personal skill level as well as build choice is going to have any impact whatsoever.

I often end up turning the chat off because people are so stupid and/or abusive.

Caeledh.5437:

Obviously I’ve tried it. One time I sat there with only one other player joining for almost half an hour (longer than it takes to do the speed run) before we gave up and joined a zerker group – pretty much instantly.

Really? I mean, i’m an elistist/zerker/meta or whatever ppl want to call it. I never in the last 2 and half year posted a zerker lfg. Literally never. The only stuff that i put in my lfg is the path and sometime 80 only or experienced, but that’s like half the time only. I have the dungeonner collection and my hobby dungeon counter is like at 450 so it’s not like I don’t do dungeon often.

So I have kind of a hard time to believe that it take longer to get non zerker LFG since that I how I do ALL my dungeon (except when I have a full guild group).

phys.7689:

Thaddeus.4891:

phys.7689:

the penalty doesnt need to be like banning, it can just be like you cant use the grouping tool for a half hour. if a person is leaving groups 5+ times a day but doesn’t want to wait a half hour before returning, i think they may be a serial leaver.

On days that i play for a longer time, this would affect me a lot. I can see me leave 5 groups very easily. This is bullkitten, forcing ppl to play together for no other reason that you feel that the community is harsh. There is A LOT of situation when what you propose would be terrible.

you can ask the party to vote kick you and get no penalty for leaving.

It works in another game i play.
but the bias should actually be towards playing together,
thats why people join a group. If you are leaving groups 5 times a day, and the people of the party dont want you to, they probably would have been better off, if you didnt join.

notice, the entire point of the its all about the party mode, is that its more about the party,

i didnt put that into the effecient mode because that is about being effecient with your time, and i think people there wouldnt mind? not really sure.

anyhow, these are just my ideas, they arent set in stone, and probably would never happen, but yeah i dont think its an unfair system.

keep in mind you wouldnt be locked out from dungeons just one tab in the group finder, for 30 minutes, i dont think its that big a deal

I leave parties probably 5X in an hour. Why? Because I join the arah group ask if they’re going to exploit the reflect on Lupi, they say yes, I wish them a good day and bounce.

So now I’m going to be punished for trying to find a group I’ll actually have fun in? What a load of horse manure.

There is a lockout on joining groups already though. If you try to join something like 5-10 of them within abuot half an hour you get locked out for a good 15 mins. When it pops up the threshold is lower and you can join like 1 group every 15 mins, eventually you’ll be locked out for over an hour. I saw this trying to do SW. Hell the other night I wasn’t even able to get into a SW map that was actually doing the events before I got the lockout…

In DCUO we had the deserter system. It had all sorts of problems, a Disconnect would cause you to get deserter. Leaving the dungeon after you completed it but before it recognized that it was over resulted in a deserter penalty. It was terrible. While GW2 wouldn’t have the same problems I can only imagine it’d have it’s own quirks that make it bad, just like the current “can’t join too many groups” thing we have in the game, which even counts attempting to join a group but being unable to as a joined group and locks you out for 15 minutes if you already built up yoru timer…

It’s simply a bad idea. As for “well they can just kick you” well what if they won’t? Well then I’ll just stay in the group and go farm nodes while they do the dungeon. What a great way to promote comradery…

I actually like the idea of an upvote system, though realistically, we all know it’d just be exploited by those who care too much about it, ignored by those who don’t, and like AP become a very dumb segregation tool. So… it’s a bad idea.

But, positive incentives are far better than negative ones. It’d be interesting if they could add a counter on a dungeon, goes up the more you do it. If someone has less than say 75/50/25/5% of your completions you can get bonus stuff for taking them through, scaling system similar to fractals and karma? Hell it could be karma, dungeon karma would be neat.

a scaling bonus reward for taking less experienced people through could be kinda cool. There needs to be some incentive to training/teaching – since it is hard work sometimes.

Doesn’t stop someone who’s completed it x times from being completely useless though.

Artemis Thuras.8795:

a scaling bonus reward for taking less experienced people through could be kinda cool. There needs to be some incentive to training/teaching – since it is hard work sometimes.

Doesn’t stop someone who’s completed it x times from being completely useless though.

Aye, my main point is that punishments are bad, especially with any games buggy systems there are bound to be issues. Incentives can be pretty cool though.

Seera.5916:

Your solution just replaces some problems with different problems. Here are a few anecdotes:

1. Susan has a five and a seven year old. Her kids are past the age where they need constant watch. And it’s a school day. But she has chores to do. So she runs dungeons during the times when she can. Like between steps of doing laundry. But it can take time to deal with laundry, so she leaves. She does two loads of laundry that day so she ends up leaving dungeons twice. Then the kids come home, but that’s a known time so she’s not in a dungeon at the moment. She hops in later but has to leave when one of her kids needs homework help. Then she had to leave later that night because one kid starting feeling sick. She then can’t do anymore dungeons because she left 4 that day already. And no, she can’t wait for someone to kick her. Laundry gets wrinkled, and well, kids come first. Your leaving 4 times rule punishes her.

2. Johnny only has an hour to do dungeons. As such he posts a requirement for people to be level 80 and experienced. He doesn’t have time to teach. A person joins who is level 60 and new to the path. Johnny asks him to leave as he doesn’t have time to teach or have the lowered DPS. The person says he has every right to be there. Johnny kicks him. Person reports Johnny for inappropriate kicking. Johnny ends up suspended all because he enforced his LFG posting. He posted an LFG asking for X and gets suspended because he tried to enforce it? That’s crazy. If that was supposed to be the case, why have a spot for descriptions for LFG’s at all? Might as well just have a check box that asks what dungeon you want to do and it randomly puts you into a group with others. Because that’s what this rule comes down to.

Your solution just replaces a perceived problem (kicking people who don’t fit the requirement is not a problem) with two worse problems. Punishing players who have to leave immediately, but do the polite thing and leave the group before signing off. And punishing players who post a requirement and then try to enforce it.

1) situation 1, susan has a two year old. If she really got to leave a lot, without the groups ok, the fact that she has to wait a half hour after the 5th time it happens. Does it really matter? likely whatever emergency that she had to leave the party right now for, for the 5th time a day will probably take at least 15 minutes to deal with. So she is waiting for 15 minutes the 5th time this happens, its really not a lot of time. And its only this social focused dungeon finder that she is locked out from. She can still party with guildies, use the effecient focused lfg, or whatever. she only cant use the more social focused party finder for a small time

I feel bad for her having to wait 15 minutes, the 5th time, but you dont think her leaving 5 times per day didnt make everyone else there wait 15 minutes in total at that point?

2)for situation 2, the only innappropriate kicking in the effecient mode is for greifing, which im pretty sure is what is the case right now. It seems to barely be in use, and people tend to get a slap on the wrist, which is gone pretty quickly. Im essentially sayin no penalty for kicking here, except for the extreme type of cases that they would actually act on today already, which from what i hear is pretty rarely. One thing i can imagine some guy who like to kick 3 people at the end of the dungeon for no reason to get other people in, or just cause it amuses him.

anyhow the leave function isnt the central theme of the system, i think it would be a good idea, but if whoever was in charge didnt, it wouldnt effect the goal of the system that much.

Jerus.4350:

phys.7689:

Thaddeus.4891:

phys.7689:

the penalty doesnt need to be like banning, it can just be like you cant use the grouping tool for a half hour. if a person is leaving groups 5+ times a day but doesn’t want to wait a half hour before returning, i think they may be a serial leaver.

On days that i play for a longer time, this would affect me a lot. I can see me leave 5 groups very easily. This is bullkitten, forcing ppl to play together for no other reason that you feel that the community is harsh. There is A LOT of situation when what you propose would be terrible.

you can ask the party to vote kick you and get no penalty for leaving.

It works in another game i play.
but the bias should actually be towards playing together,
thats why people join a group. If you are leaving groups 5 times a day, and the people of the party dont want you to, they probably would have been better off, if you didnt join.

notice, the entire point of the its all about the party mode, is that its more about the party,

i didnt put that into the effecient mode because that is about being effecient with your time, and i think people there wouldnt mind? not really sure.

anyhow, these are just my ideas, they arent set in stone, and probably would never happen, but yeah i dont think its an unfair system.

keep in mind you wouldnt be locked out from dungeons just one tab in the group finder, for 30 minutes, i dont think its that big a deal

I leave parties probably 5X in an hour. Why? Because I join the arah group ask if they’re going to exploit the reflect on Lupi, they say yes, I wish them a good day and bounce.

So now I’m going to be punished for trying to find a group I’ll actually have fun in? What a load of horse manure.

There is a lockout on joining groups already though. If you try to join something like 5-10 of them within abuot half an hour you get locked out for a good 15 mins. When it pops up the threshold is lower and you can join like 1 group every 15 mins, eventually you’ll be locked out for over an hour. I saw this trying to do SW. Hell the other night I wasn’t even able to get into a SW map that was actually doing the events before I got the lockout…

In DCUO we had the deserter system. It had all sorts of problems, a Disconnect would cause you to get deserter. Leaving the dungeon after you completed it but before it recognized that it was over resulted in a deserter penalty. It was terrible. While GW2 wouldn’t have the same problems I can only imagine it’d have it’s own quirks that make it bad, just like the current “can’t join too many groups” thing we have in the game, which even counts attempting to join a group but being unable to as a joined group and locks you out for 15 minutes if you already built up yoru timer…

It’s simply a bad idea. As for “well they can just kick you” well what if they won’t? Well then I’ll just stay in the group and go farm nodes while they do the dungeon. What a great way to promote comradery…

I actually like the idea of an upvote system, though realistically, we all know it’d just be exploited by those who care too much about it, ignored by those who don’t, and like AP become a very dumb segregation tool. So… it’s a bad idea.

But, positive incentives are far better than negative ones. It’d be interesting if they could add a counter on a dungeon, goes up the more you do it. If someone has less than say 75/50/25/5% of your completions you can get bonus stuff for taking them through, scaling system similar to fractals and karma? Hell it could be karma, dungeon karma would be neat.

leaving the social group because they are cheating, or other such things is a good point. Does that really happen so often? its a shame.
anyhow like i said its not the backbone of the system, i still think it serves purpose, but whatevs

Caeledh.5437:

Thanks for beating me to it Seera. You’re right. To Mirta consider taking your own advice. Try getting into or starting your own group at my play times.
Obviously I’ve tried it. One time I sat there with only one other player joining for almost half an hour (longer than it takes to do the speed run) before we gave up and joined a zerker group – pretty much instantly.
So like I’ve said repeatedly I don’t join those groups by preference. At some times of the day it’s my only option.

So you have two choices.

1)Accept that that’s the number of people that play the same way you do at some points in the day and wait for more or don’t play at that time.

2)Embrace another way of playing and play with those who use this other way because they are more numerous.

Anything in between will lead to conflicts and kicks.

Artemis Thuras.8795:

a scaling bonus reward for taking less experienced people through could be kinda cool. There needs to be some incentive to training/teaching – since it is hard work sometimes.

Doesn’t stop someone who’s completed it x times from being completely useless though.

While in theory this might work in practice people will just buy a new account – bring them along and 3 man or 4 man the dungeon with friends for more/better rewards.

You can’t really quantify “less experienced” from a game mechanics point of view. It would lead to a lot of exploiting and a lot of money being made.

Even if you did take new players – it might still be easier to tell them to stay there and not touch anything while the other 4 experienced players run the dungeon rather than take them along to complete the dungeon with you.

phys.7689:

leaving the social group because they are cheating, or other such things is a good point. Does that really happen so often? its a shame.
anyhow like i said its not the backbone of the system, i still think it serves purpose, but whatevs

It’s unfortunate but yes, a clear majority of parties in the LFG tool are utilizing that reflect thing. I generally don’t even bother joining groups with guards in them if i can avoid it, but I make it a point to ask at the start, and if they don’t answer I take that simply to mean that they are and feel too guilty to answer or are going to but want me to help them get there first.

Harper.4173:

Artemis Thuras.8795:

a scaling bonus reward for taking less experienced people through could be kinda cool. There needs to be some incentive to training/teaching – since it is hard work sometimes.

Doesn’t stop someone who’s completed it x times from being completely useless though.

While in theory this might work in practice people will just buy a new account – bring them along and 3 man or 4 man the dungeon with friends for more/better rewards.

You can’t really quantify “less experienced” from a game mechanics point of view. It would lead to a lot of exploiting and a lot of money being made.

Even if you did take new players – it might still be easier to tell them to stay there and not touch anything while the other 4 experienced players run the dungeon rather than take them along to complete the dungeon with you.

Unfortunately, I think you are correct in what would happen.
I’d certainly drop my alt into a 5th slot and 4 man the easy stuff.

And in the end, ANet gets more money, you get more reward for 4 manning something, and … well who’s the loser?

Either way, details details, point was simply to promote the idea of incentives rather than punishments.

Yeah, the key is to tell right away if you are a first timer in the dungeon. There a special runs to teach PUGs, which players organize in order to share the knowledge. Im doing teaching Arah runs. Did one yesterday, took1.5 hrs, but everyone was super happy and of the party members even sent me 3-4g to thank for the patience. Win-win for me and them

Harper.4173:

GiraffeRampage.6420:

I agree definitely, no other mmo that i have played has been as mean and brutal towards other players especially to new players who stumble into an exp dungeon for the first time. Not even WoW is that bad during heroic dungeons, people are extremely helpful. The fact that a majority of “elite” gw2 players kick other players out of dungeons just because their AP arent in the thousands is ridiculous which is an absolutley terrible way to judge skill. Im a newer player and my brother is the one who brought me into gw2 and hes been playing since 2013 but his AP’s are only in the 900’s because he plays casually and he still gets kicked just because of that.

And he gets kicked precisely because people don’t want someone who plays casually. If they wanted that 900 ap would be fine.
They want someone who’s been playing since 2012 on release – who averages 3-4 hours every day and has played each day ever since the game came out.
They want someone at 20k AP who knows the game by heart.

You can’t expect people who don’t want to play with casual players to force themselves to do it just because.
Find people who will accept and teach you the basics. Learn, Improve and in time you’ll run with the experienced players.

im guessing youre one of these elitists since you can state that “people dont want” youre saying that every single person who does not have 20k APs and has not been been playing since launch, (a very large majority of the entire player base) doesnt know any of the dungeon mechanics and is not good enough to run dungeons with you and your people? Lol again youve missed the point…. /sigh

Statistically someone with under 1000 or 2000 AP is going to be very new at the dungeon and much more likely to be a headless chicken. While this does not mean 100%, players are not entitled to not be filtered until groups get better filtering options.

Here’s the bottom line: if I can avoid a possible risk and form my group in a similar amount of time, then I will statistically have a higher chance of a smooth run.

Those who are hurt by this hedging can be the first in line to petition ANet for better filtering options, and I will be the second in line with them.

Having followed this thread, I think having some kind of LFG filter system to enable players to only play with who they want to play with would be beneficial. This means that if you filter for “AP > 5000” no one with less than 5000 AP can join your group. Likewise, if you filter for “No Necromancer” then no Necromancer can join your party.

On the flip-side, I will note that this creates physical barriers to partying with others, which may or may not be healthy for the game. What if no one ever creates a dungeon run that allows players with less than 1000AP into parties? They never get to experience that content and then leave the game having never known what it was? Maybe things like AP should be left out of the filter system to avoid that situation?

Let’s try to talk about what filters we’d think would be valuable if we had such a system. Some ideas from others and my own ideas follow:

• Level Filters (Level 80 Only, Level 50+)
• Class Filters (No Necromancer, Max 3 Elementalists, Guardian Only, Heavy Only)
• AP Filter (1000+ AP, <10000 AP)

Feel free to discuss the pros and cons of each.

Dave.2536:

Statistically someone with under 1000 or 2000 AP is going to be very new at the dungeon and much more likely to be a headless chicken. While this does not mean 100%, players are not entitled to not be filtered until groups get better filtering options.

Here’s the bottom line: if I can avoid a possible risk and form my group in a similar amount of time, then I will statistically have a higher chance of a smooth run.

Those who are hurt by this hedging can be the first in line to petition ANet for better filtering options, and I will be the second in line with them.

there should definitely be some type of filter system because if there was i would not run any dungeons with players who are above 10k. In fact i have ran dungeons with “more than 10k APs will be kicked” all day yesterday and i had pretty enjoyable runs with 5-8k players. I did end up kicking 2 players though after they joined asking why i have 10k AP kicked and i explained to them i dont want to play with anyone who has a ridiculous amount of APs as all of you usually tend to be snobby know it alls. Otherwise no problems, as that solved all the drama for me.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Having followed this thread, I think having some kind of LFG filter system to enable players to only play with who they want to play with would be beneficial. This means that if you filter for “AP > 5000” no one with less than 5000 AP can join your group. Likewise, if you filter for “No Necromancer” then no Necromancer can join your party.

On the flip-side, I will note that this creates physical barriers to partying with others, which may or may not be healthy for the game. What if no one ever creates a dungeon run that allows players with less than 1000AP into parties? They never get to experience that content and then leave the game having never known what it was? Maybe things like AP should be left out of the filter system to avoid that situation?

Let’s try to talk about what filters we’d think would be valuable if we had such a system. Some ideas from others and my own ideas follow:

• Level Filters (Level 80 Only, Level 50+)
• Class Filters (No Necromancer, Max 3 Elementalists, Guardian Only, Heavy Only)
• AP Filter (1000+ AP, <10000 AP)

Feel free to discuss the pros and cons of each.

essentially, the solution, and i am now borrowing pretty heavily from another game, but it works

is to have a group finder that automatically places you with one set of rules.
this is what most people will use

and the lfg system with a different set of rules, and a lot more filters

most people will use the group finder except for content that is too hard to pug, or content that they dont want played in pug type way.

some things wont happen fast in either situation, but theres really nothing much to do about that. Those same things dont happen that fast right now.

The biggest danger is that the community is too small to be split, and both sides though they may have problems with each other, actually need each other to have enough people for content.

which probably means some how this change would need to be promoted in a way/at a time that more people will try it out, and have a positive experience.

GiraffeRampage.6420:

Dave.2536:

Statistically someone with under 1000 or 2000 AP is going to be very new at the dungeon and much more likely to be a headless chicken. While this does not mean 100%, players are not entitled to not be filtered until groups get better filtering options.

Here’s the bottom line: if I can avoid a possible risk and form my group in a similar amount of time, then I will statistically have a higher chance of a smooth run.

Those who are hurt by this hedging can be the first in line to petition ANet for better filtering options, and I will be the second in line with them.

there should definitely be some type of filter system because if there was i would not run any dungeons with players who are above 10k. In fact i have ran dungeons with “more than 10k APs will be kicked” all day yesterday and i had pretty enjoyable runs with 5-8k players. I did end up kicking 2 players though after they joined asking why i have 10k AP kicked and i explained to them i dont want to play with anyone who has a ridiculous amount of APs as all of you usually tend to be snobby know it alls. Otherwise no problems, as that solved all the drama for me.

one day i will have 10k ap, i would probably have 10k ap by now if i kept playing, and i generally go with the flow in dungeons, so i dont think the stereotype is accurate, but whatever floats your boat.

What if no one ever creates a dungeon run that allows players with less than 1000AP into parties? They never get to experience that content and then leave the game having never known what it was? Maybe things like AP should be left out of the filter system to avoid that situation?

In reality, many sub-1k/2k AP players will get kicked even without a filter for AP in place

But to discuss the matter anyways, if the other filters were strong enough I would have no objections to leaving out AP. But I won’t consider filters strong enough in the absence of account/character age or character stat filters.

As it stands, I don’t think it’s the responsibility of LFG groups to teach people how to do dungeons, or even take the responsibility of taking new players.* That’s what guilds are for, and it’s up to the guilds (and individual initiative) to find a friendly and welcoming guild.

In fact i have ran dungeons with “more than 10k APs will be kicked” all day yesterday and i had pretty enjoyable runs with 5-8k players.

If people want a max AP filter I have no issue with that. In fact if they want max XYZ filters for any category it is fine with me.

I don’t think character stat filters are possible given that players could retrait or regear after joining the party. Character / account age, however, is something that could be filtered.

Dave.2536:

What if no one ever creates a dungeon run that allows players with less than 1000AP into parties? They never get to experience that content and then leave the game having never known what it was? Maybe things like AP should be left out of the filter system to avoid that situation?

In reality, many sub-1k/2k AP players will get kicked even without a filter for AP in place

But to discuss the matter anyways, if the other filters were strong enough I would have no objections to leaving out AP. But I won’t consider filters strong enough in the absence of account/character age or character stat filters.

As it stands, I don’t think it’s the responsibility of LFG groups to teach people how to do dungeons, or even take the responsibility of taking new players.* That’s what guilds are for, and it’s up to the guilds (and individual initiative) to find a friendly and welcoming guild.

its not the responsibility of lfg groups, but the game itself has a responsibility to make dungeons accessible, otherwise, many people wont do it, and they will begin to ignore development in favor of things that more people do.

So the game needs to make it pretty easy to at least get a chance at playing a dungeon.

and do you really think AP even matters, or even charachter age? serious question, because someone could have bought this game 2 weeks ago, and playing primarily through dungeons and following guides have learned the game well enough to be an expert and dungeons.

I could have had 10k ap by now, and have a large amount of hours and days, but i wouldnt know my way around a speed run at all, i have never even tried one.

You could have it set by total item rarity checks. Such as having 6 out 15 exotics in slot as minimum or something as an example or basically just X amount of exotics equipped with pug leaders choice that way if you dont meet the threshold you wont even be allowed to join.

phys.7689:

GiraffeRampage.6420:

Dave.2536:

Statistically someone with under 1000 or 2000 AP is going to be very new at the dungeon and much more likely to be a headless chicken. While this does not mean 100%, players are not entitled to not be filtered until groups get better filtering options.

Here’s the bottom line: if I can avoid a possible risk and form my group in a similar amount of time, then I will statistically have a higher chance of a smooth run.

Those who are hurt by this hedging can be the first in line to petition ANet for better filtering options, and I will be the second in line with them.

there should definitely be some type of filter system because if there was i would not run any dungeons with players who are above 10k. In fact i have ran dungeons with “more than 10k APs will be kicked” all day yesterday and i had pretty enjoyable runs with 5-8k players. I did end up kicking 2 players though after they joined asking why i have 10k AP kicked and i explained to them i dont want to play with anyone who has a ridiculous amount of APs as all of you usually tend to be snobby know it alls. Otherwise no problems, as that solved all the drama for me.

one day i will have 10k ap, i would probably have 10k ap by now if i kept playing, and i generally go with the flow in dungeons, so i dont think the stereotype is accurate, but whatever floats your boat.

The same can be said for judging players with low AP score though, its a bad stereotype and thats the problem.

phys.7689:

Seera.5916:

Your solution just replaces some problems with different problems. Here are a few anecdotes:

1. Susan has a five and a seven year old. Her kids are past the age where they need constant watch. And it’s a school day. But she has chores to do. So she runs dungeons during the times when she can. Like between steps of doing laundry. But it can take time to deal with laundry, so she leaves. She does two loads of laundry that day so she ends up leaving dungeons twice. Then the kids come home, but that’s a known time so she’s not in a dungeon at the moment. She hops in later but has to leave when one of her kids needs homework help. Then she had to leave later that night because one kid starting feeling sick. She then can’t do anymore dungeons because she left 4 that day already. And no, she can’t wait for someone to kick her. Laundry gets wrinkled, and well, kids come first. Your leaving 4 times rule punishes her.

2. Johnny only has an hour to do dungeons. As such he posts a requirement for people to be level 80 and experienced. He doesn’t have time to teach. A person joins who is level 60 and new to the path. Johnny asks him to leave as he doesn’t have time to teach or have the lowered DPS. The person says he has every right to be there. Johnny kicks him. Person reports Johnny for inappropriate kicking. Johnny ends up suspended all because he enforced his LFG posting. He posted an LFG asking for X and gets suspended because he tried to enforce it? That’s crazy. If that was supposed to be the case, why have a spot for descriptions for LFG’s at all? Might as well just have a check box that asks what dungeon you want to do and it randomly puts you into a group with others. Because that’s what this rule comes down to.

Your solution just replaces a perceived problem (kicking people who don’t fit the requirement is not a problem) with two worse problems. Punishing players who have to leave immediately, but do the polite thing and leave the group before signing off. And punishing players who post a requirement and then try to enforce it.

1) situation 1, susan has a two year old. If she really got to leave a lot, without the groups ok, the fact that she has to wait a half hour after the 5th time it happens. Does it really matter? likely whatever emergency that she had to leave the party right now for, for the 5th time a day will probably take at least 15 minutes to deal with. So she is waiting for 15 minutes the 5th time this happens, its really not a lot of time. And its only this social focused dungeon finder that she is locked out from. She can still party with guildies, use the effecient focused lfg, or whatever. she only cant use the more social focused party finder for a small time

I feel bad for her having to wait 15 minutes, the 5th time, but you dont think her leaving 5 times per day didnt make everyone else there wait 15 minutes in total at that point?

2)for situation 2, the only innappropriate kicking in the effecient mode is for greifing, which im pretty sure is what is the case right now. It seems to barely be in use, and people tend to get a slap on the wrist, which is gone pretty quickly. Im essentially sayin no penalty for kicking here, except for the extreme type of cases that they would actually act on today already, which from what i hear is pretty rarely. One thing i can imagine some guy who like to kick 3 people at the end of the dungeon for no reason to get other people in, or just cause it amuses him.

anyhow the leave function isnt the central theme of the system, i think it would be a good idea, but if whoever was in charge didnt, it wouldnt effect the goal of the system that much.

1. I said she had a seven year old and a five year old. And by leave, I mean leaves without intent to return that group. And like I said, she informed the group of the possibility of her having to leave, so they were willing to accept the risk. And she can’t use the efficient LFG, she’s at risk of leaving. That’s not efficient. And this is just one example of a player who would be hurt by your change.

Players with connection issues would likely get caught by it.

Players also shouldn’t have to ask others to kick them to avoid a penalty when they realize their play styles don’t mesh well. A system that is designed where you have to go out of your way to avoid the consequences when you aren’t the ones who it was designed for is a bad system.

2. You didn’t specify that players joining groups they didn’t meet and getting kicked accordingly fit and based on previous posts you made, I could not assume you included them.

However, I still do not agree that voluntarily leaving a group should incur a penalty. I’ve never seen any posts on here by people complaining that they keep running into people who leave their groups before the run was done. Not to the degree to warrant punishing players for doing so.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Having followed this thread, I think having some kind of LFG filter system to enable players to only play with who they want to play with would be beneficial. This means that if you filter for “AP > 5000” no one with less than 5000 AP can join your group. Likewise, if you filter for “No Necromancer” then no Necromancer can join your party.

On the flip-side, I will note that this creates physical barriers to partying with others, which may or may not be healthy for the game. What if no one ever creates a dungeon run that allows players with less than 1000AP into parties? They never get to experience that content and then leave the game having never known what it was? Maybe things like AP should be left out of the filter system to avoid that situation?

Let’s try to talk about what filters we’d think would be valuable if we had such a system. Some ideas from others and my own ideas follow:

• Level Filters (Level 80 Only, Level 50+)
• Class Filters (No Necromancer, Max 3 Elementalists, Guardian Only, Heavy Only)
• AP Filter (1000+ AP, <10000 AP)

Feel free to discuss the pros and cons of each.

I agree the AP thing could, in theory, create barriers but should still be a filter. While I am not one who posts an AP requirement, I think the goal of the filters is so people can have the best chance of putting together the party they want. So, although I agree the AP requirement groups, for the most part, are absurd, LFG filters should allow all types of groups to filter out what they don’t want. Just as someone should be able to filter out a class, so too should they be able to filter on AP, stats, etc. Plus a lot of filters could potentially create a similar barrier. What if groups always filtered out Necromancer? or Ranger?

I am curious what people may think about an equipment filter? For instance, any player joining the party must have X number of Berserker gear pieces of level 80 exo/asc.? If that were a possible filter, it would need to lock gear in place, like Custom Arenas have the option to. Granted I doubt anyone is going to require all Nomad’s or something absurd like that but naturally this filter would be to minimize the “non-zerk” from joining groups that want zerk only.

There could also be filters requiring a specific Achievement be completed (i.e. Dungeon Master, or a specific dungeon achievement track). Granted that achievement is not indicative of talent/skill but it’s at least more of an indicator that they have dungeon experience than overall AP is.

On a side note, I think enough people are interested in LFG filters that maybe a thread dedicated to it would be appropriate? Perhaps stickied so it doesn’t get lost?

its not the responsibility of lfg groups, but the game itself has a responsibility to make dungeons accessible, otherwise, many people wont do it, and they will begin to ignore development in favor of things that more people do.

You can form your own groups in this game. The only responsibility the game has from here is perhaps to remind everyone that they can form their own parties.

I know I’m personally much less uneasy about joining the party formed by someone with 900 AP than I am when someone with 900 AP joins my party.

Artemis Thuras.8795:

Go try ranked pvp.
Like dungeons its one of the few places your personal skill level as well as build choice is going to have any impact whatsoever.

I often end up turning the chat off because people are so stupid and/or abusive.

That’s one of the reasons I don’t PvP at all. I play games to have fun, not deal with kittens.

Thaddeus.4891:

Really?

Yes.

Artemis Thuras.8795:

a scaling bonus reward for taking less experienced people through could be kinda cool. There needs to be some incentive to training/teaching – since it is hard work sometimes.

Doesn’t stop someone who’s completed it x times from being completely useless though.

How do you like this idea.

Make dungeons like current dailies. Rather than each and every dungeon path being its own daily, the game could randomly pick a small handful – 3 or 4 – dungeon paths and give a substantially bigger daily reward (gold, fragments, tokens) for completing them And when I say completing I mean fully clearing it.

Also disable the ability to skip cutscenes on those daily dungeons.

With that scheme, players could continue to earn rewards at the same rate but it would remove the need / incentive to speedrun. Bonus would be that new players could actually get to see dungeons – including those delightful cutscenes.

Am I the only one who doesn’t want some new convoluted lfg system?

EDIT: I gotta squash bugs on their forums. They can’t get rid of the 1 in the custom gem buy window. They have their TP bug out regularly. The current LFG system has it’s own bugs. Their attempt to give us a “majority” kick option failed.

You all believe they can put a complex LFG system into this game that is actually better than what we have? Are you sure you want them to try?

Where’s the Raid, gotta get another one of these bugs.