Guild Wars 2

I don’t understand. Why are the World Events perfectly setup to be difficult, fun, & rewarding yet these dungeons are just deathtraps that frustrate players? You’d think if they got it right outside they’d do the same formula inside with just a little more structure.

Instead dungeon difficulty is ramped up way to high for the average gamer to even have a chance.

1. Mobs hit way to hard. 3 Hits and a mage is dead. Tanks can’t even tank. It’s one thing to make mobs hit harder than normal. Its another to make it impossible for players to even function in their designated roles. The only thing that can tank a boss in these dungeons are Ranger pets.

2. No aggro control. Once a mob targets you, you must spend about 2 minutes running, dodging, kiting just to survive. If you die, the mob continues hitting you while your down. If you are rezzed the mob instantly takes you down again.

3. Hard to time enemy attacks. Too much are effect abilities and not enough time to get out the way. Couple this with the fact that everything hits like a freight train, no one is surviving.

4. Crap rewards for story mode. If it’s gonna be this hard give me some decent money and item upgrades. I’m not expecting epic gear but giving me blue trash is not helping.

Now we look at events, which do everything right.

1. Large masses of enemies to accommodate large groups of people. Everyone is challenged, but it is not completely overwhelming.

2. All classes can function in the roles they desire. Tanks will tank. Support can put out heals and boons. It’s all good.

3. Champion Bosses have realistic aggro that switches targets repeatedly.

4. Mobs can hit hard but only champions hit like trucks.

I think the dev team needs to take elements from their world events and rebalance their dungeons to fit those criteria instead. At least lower mob damage in dungeons and allow classes to do the jobs they specced to do. It saddens me to see fully decked out warriors shooting guns and running from aggro.

You’ll find that there are a significant number of players who find the world events to be extremely boring because they find them to be much too easy, and for whom the dungeons are at just the right level of difficulty to be fun.

I’ll also say that most of the issues you have with classes being unable to perform a given role is a matter of getting accustomed to the demands of dungeon play. I had a hard time (as a Warrior) using anything but a Rifle when I first started playing dungeons too, but after getting used to the way they play, I find it much more effective to play at melee range, and now spend probably upwards of 75% of my time in a dungeon using a sword.

(You’re pretty spot-on with the rewards for doing dungeons, though. Those are even more poorly structured in Explorable mode than they are in Story mode.)

how about make the really hard explorable modes a 10 man raid then they will be acceptable

What do you mean designated roles? Tank? Whats a tank? The holy trinity does still exist in Gw2, but it doesnt shine like in any other MMOs. Anet is avoiding the holy trinity, so there obviously is no tank.

Agro control, why would there be any such system when there is no holy trinity? Cant dodge? Try increasing your endurance or hotkeying the dodge to your side mouse botton? Too much things going on in your screen? Cant keep up? Well, you sound like a WoW player, but even if your not. Most MMOs have gotten in the bad habit of having multiple automated 3rd party system running on their games. These tell you when to dodge, cast or do it for you.

GW2 avoids all these usual boring stuff that make the game easy. World events are meant to be fun, and challenging to all players. Dungeons on the otherhand is not made for everyone but made for the PvM lovers, those who want to have a good challenge. We PvM lovers, still think the dungeons are too easy.

Do you see the difficulity Anet faces? They solved this by adding a story mode, which can be replayed by the less able, or less Dungeon loving, or less experienced PvM players. When did Anet say that everyone needs to do the explorable instead of the story mode? Since when has story mode been a 1 time play?

There also is no such thing as a trash mob, everything is part of the ulitmate challenge. Its one giant puzzle. Solve it, it gets easy.

Can you even increase your endurance?

AsteriskCGY.5931:

Can you even increase your endurance?

Yes, I believe you can.

DKP.4196:

AsteriskCGY.5931:

Can you even increase your endurance?

Yes, I believe you can.

That’s funny, cause I don’t know which stat you’re talking about.

AsteriskCGY.5931:

DKP.4196:

AsteriskCGY.5931:

Can you even increase your endurance?

Yes, I believe you can.

That’s funny, cause I don’t know which stat you’re talking about.

You can increase your endurance regeneration rates is what I meant.

Well DKP I can keep up quite well in PvP avoiding 3 loads of catapult fire at a time. Funny thing is when I make a mistake in WvW during a keep seige I still have a chance to recover and continue fighting.

In a dungeon however there is no recovery chance. For instance, in AC when fighting a ranger. How the hell are you supped to avoid their traps when they instant cast right under your feet. I have my dodge key hot keyed, yet the first hit from a ranger trap will always connect. And when it connects it is half your life.

No this isnt about WoW. In WoW when you messed up a pull your team had to work 3 times as hard to recover. You could wipe just as easily in WoW. Just that WoW had CC and the trinity.

If GW2 is planning to roll without the trinity, then maybe they should make the mobs managable for people of ANY role to deal with. At the moment no one can an elite mob of 3. the only thing people can do is hope an NPC grabs the aggro or snare and dodge repeatedly. I would expect that a player could take a good 6 to 8 hits before dying. Then things would make a little more sense. but in this case it is 3 hits max and you are dead. The Endurance bar does not recover nearly fast enough to effectively kite an enemy, plus there isn’t enough space.

On the subject of world events being too easy. It really all depends on the level and amount of people present. Try doing a world event that is 2 levels higher than you with only 4 or 5 people with a champion fight in the end. It will be hard as hell, but it will be managable.

I like doing PvP and I love a good PvM dungeon, but this game’s style has no tactic except run and kite. No true CC. no real debuffs. No real buffs. These buffs and debuffs work everywhere else in the game perfectly, but in dungeons the only thing that works is a snare. Make the boss limp around after someone. You can debuff his strength but he’s still going to kill you in 2 hits. You can use knockbacks, but over half the bosses have stability. It is not good PvM. It is just a zerg fest of praying the mobs go after the right people and running for your life while your team does damage.

Specifically those rangers with the traps, yes they suck, but I think the point is to reflect/cc/interrupt/in general ruin the rangers day before they get a chance. Which isn’t a bad mechanic.

Hard world events? Lol what? Are we even playing the same game? All of the de’s outside of one or two that are likely bugged are pathetically, mindnumbingly easy. When was the last time you died during an event? When was the last time you failed to complete an event due to its difficulty? ‘Hard events’ would be if you got your backside repeatedly handed to you by lvl 3 centaurs outside the city. Or by 55 zombies outside that hylek village. Then they would burn down the village, kill the npcs, and you would have literally nothing availible to you until you fight them back. Bank? AH? Repairs? Vendors? Gold? FIGHT FOR IT. As of now, players are getting this handed to them on a plate. Where is the challenge in the event system?

The very least they could do is make dying from traps not damage your armor or reduce repair costs so that dungeons don’t become massive gold sinks in certain parties.

The ‘party’ is flawed, not the dungeon. Want to play in relaxing casual manner while completing content? Participate in some events.

Just that WoW had CC and the trinity.

Yeah sure you could use a lot of CC on 99% of the bosses. How many cc did you use at Deathwing? Yeah right one on the <25% phase to knock the adds off. And it didnt even matter if your raid was competent enough to do enough dps to them.

Urrelles.4018:

Well DKP I can keep up quite well in PvP avoiding 3 loads of catapult fire at a time. Funny thing is when I make a mistake in WvW during a keep seige I still have a chance to recover and continue fighting.

In a dungeon however there is no recovery chance. For instance, in AC when fighting a ranger. How the hell are you supped to avoid their traps when they instant cast right under your feet. I have my dodge key hot keyed, yet the first hit from a ranger trap will always connect. And when it connects it is half your life.

No this isnt about WoW. In WoW when you messed up a pull your team had to work 3 times as hard to recover. You could wipe just as easily in WoW. Just that WoW had CC and the trinity.

If GW2 is planning to roll without the trinity, then maybe they should make the mobs managable for people of ANY role to deal with. At the moment no one can an elite mob of 3. the only thing people can do is hope an NPC grabs the aggro or snare and dodge repeatedly. I would expect that a player could take a good 6 to 8 hits before dying. Then things would make a little more sense. but in this case it is 3 hits max and you are dead. The Endurance bar does not recover nearly fast enough to effectively kite an enemy, plus there isn’t enough space.

On the subject of world events being too easy. It really all depends on the level and amount of people present. Try doing a world event that is 2 levels higher than you with only 4 or 5 people with a champion fight in the end. It will be hard as hell, but it will be managable.

I like doing PvP and I love a good PvM dungeon, but this game’s style has no tactic except run and kite. No true CC. no real debuffs. No real buffs. These buffs and debuffs work everywhere else in the game perfectly, but in dungeons the only thing that works is a snare. Make the boss limp around after someone. You can debuff his strength but he’s still going to kill you in 2 hits. You can use knockbacks, but over half the bosses have stability. It is not good PvM. It is just a zerg fest of praying the mobs go after the right people and running for your life while your team does damage.

All I can say is, once you become more used to the Dungeons. You will understand moving all the time isnt always necessary. You will find times where you could just stand still and range, or attack for 1-2 or more seconds. This will regenerate your endurance bar faster. Just enough for another leap, or 2.

Also, moving back away from the battle from time to time, allows the boss/mobs to target someone else in your team. There is no rule that 1 player needs to dodge all the time. Take turns. It may not seem possible to do this, but if you become more experienced then you will notice these moments.

Also, getting downed is not always a bad thing. Best if you dont! But, I can say that even if your downed, a team mate could res you, and always should aslong as it wont kill you. A dungeon where nobody dies, gets downed other than in boss fight. I dont see how that would be any fun to anybody. Try getting more gold or something from something else? Trying to make money via dungeons isnt the way to do things:) Dungeons give just enough money to reward you and to repair your armour for the accomplishment.

Since when did Anet say Dungeons are made for players to become rich. It could be, but not necessarily.

So, back to the main point here, try to find these “moments” and you would be able to dodge, and avoid certain death.

Good luck!

World Events are perfection? 40 people spamming all their skills for on some champion mob that doesn’t do anything dangerous other than two-shotting one of the forty players every 30 seconds that will be ressed in under 2 seconds by all those people standing around are supposed to be great?
Fun? Yes! – If you do it occasionally.
Challenging? No.

Acutally I’d enjoy giving all those world bosses some one-shot AoE ability with a clear red circle on the ground and a long cast-time if many players join in. That way it’s still not too difficult, but you can’t go brain-afk anymore.

sorry Urrelles but if you think dungeons are too hard and world events are “perfect” than a lot of people are going to disagree with you and say your just bad.

world events are a massive bore imo, you just stand around auto attacking into a monstrous health pool, woohoo!

Dungeons were slightly hard before I got better gear and learned some of the fight mechanics, but now its really easy to farm the large majority of them in no time flat. I can’t imagine them being any easier.

What? 98% of world events are really easy i wish they were harder :s

World events are fun?? And difficult?? What game are you playing? Because we are definitely not playing the same game.

World event difficulty is completely determined by level and the amount of people present. I’m not talking about its difficulty. I’m talking about its setup; its programming.

In pretty much all MMOs the PvE dungeon is either 1.) a zone filled with well placed mobs that need a good strategy to pull or 2.) zerg fest mobs that require each player to hold their own in a 2 v 1 against slightly inferior monsters.

In the well placed pull each player in the group must control, tank, or damage a target. In a zerg situaiton each player must grab a few targets and fight or everyone spams AE and mass controls.

Now GW2 breaks the rules but in the worse possible way. Every player on the team feels like a hybrid class. No one can excel at their task and completely contribute. Actually one group can. The damage dealers. Support cannot heal enough and their buffs are not strong enough. Tanks can’t take more than 3 hits before they drop. CC specialist can only CC bosses after they drop to 40% health, then MAYBE they can land a decent CC beyond a snare.

What GW2 does is force the whole team to be 1 role. Everyone must be healer spec. Or everyone must be CC. Everyone on the team has to layer all of that one roles abilites on the mobs to make a difference. You want heals? Everyone must drop healing and regen boons in order to out heal the damage that a mob puts out.

Now if the GW2 dev team was expecting everyone to hold their own and use their own dodging, toughness, or CC to control mob aggro, then they fail. The mobs in these dungeons are programmed in a way that requires each person to fend for themselves; YET the mobs stats are programmed in a way that requires the holy trinity of tank / healer / DPS. A person cannot hold their own against an enemy that can kill them in 2 or 3 hits with no ability to control their aggro.

If I recall we were advertised that every role in the game would be viable in all aspects of the game. Right now a tank doesn’t mean crap in Dungeons. Nor do healers, buffers, or debuffers. Yet these mobs are designed for very powerful versions of these roles.

so the reason why World Events are perfect? Because no matter what role you choose, you contribute fully. Your abilities work. You can hold your own if you get aggro. You have room for mistakes. Yet (under the right circumstances) you are challenged. I expect Dungeons to have these same mechanics yet be a guaranteed fair challenge. Right now dungeons are forcing groups down 1 specific playstyle that only a tiny percentage of the population can manage.

If anything, at least make the story mode dungeons a little more manageable for all players to enjoy.

The only reason people have trouble with dungeons in GW2 is because they try play them like they have done PvE and PvP. Glass cannon style, this just does not work in a dungeon at all.

You need support and utility to be successful in a dungeon and more importantly survivability.

If you lack either of the above you will die… many many times.

and more times over the many many times:)

Urrelles.4018:

………………..
In a dungeon however there is no recovery chance. For instance, in AC when fighting a ranger. How the hell are you supped to avoid their traps when they instant cast right under your feet. I have my dodge key hot keyed, yet the first hit from a ranger trap will always connect. And when it connects it is half your life.
……………….

Am I the only one that noticed they throw some sort of pouch or bag that is the trap?
Watch closely where the bag lands, poof spike trap.
When you see them throw the bag, dodge duck dip dive and dodge, trap avoided.
Dungeons are all about ‘eyes up’ play, not watching your cool downs. Not saying that’s how you play, but it’s a bad habbit I brought with me and had to shake.

World events are stupidly easy. I mostly only do them for the karma, because the challenge is not present. Mostly people “perceive” a challenge when the boss takes long to kill. Which is why a lot of events seem to only scale the boss’ HP up. Bosses should unlock more mechanics when they scale, but I can forgive the fact that they dont: ANet doesn’t have an infinite budget or time. I’m hoping they add it later.

But I digress…

Dungeons are meant to be a slow crawl to your own personal skill perfection.
A segment of AC on explorable:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2q4j7Db5hHY

One thing World events give you is the room to dodge. And the room to see where enemies are.

Nothing like walking into a room and realize there’s a rifleman, a net launcher, and bomb throwers somewhere off screen.

I agree with title, please fix game!

If only in-game necromancers were this powerful, Anet plz!

Gyler.8150:

If only in-game necromancers were this powerful, Anet plz!

I know, right?

This thread is 100% Zhaitan approved!

World events are easy for everyone. You can stand at max range and auto-shot for most of them. You don’t need to know tactics, don’t need to know your class, don’t need to know the enemy attacks.

Dungeons actually pose a challenge for the inexperienced. Surely that’s good? You can spend time in dungeons improving your play and facing a challenge until you learn your class and learn some tactics. Then the dungeons will unfortunately seem easy as well.

Dungeons are hard, but you’re using a lot of language that suggests it’s impossible, and that’s definitely not the case.

It’s just something you have to get accustomed to. I had a hard time my first few dungeon runs, then I figured out that you can’t play dungeons the same way you play the rest of the PvE content. They take serious team coordination, rather than everyone just doing whatever they want and hoping it works.

By the way, if you’re having trouble in AC, the boulders are OP. Keep picking those up and using them, and it’ll be a cakewalk.

Just play Berserker, stack in a corner and push the 1.

Most people are saying that it work´s, so it must be true. Because stacking/melee/zerker is an exploit!
Dungeons can´t be hard this way!

Well. Ok without a joke.

For me, the open world is nothing.
It doesn´t matter how u play… how anyone plays. U can just stay at range and use skill 1 and u will finish the event.
Everyone is just trying to tag as much mobs as possibel. This is not teamplay. It is pvp.
Rly aweful design in my eyes.
Three headed wurm/tequatl are the only ecxeptions at the moment.

Also just make sure you don’t play Necro. Necro’s are generally bad at dungeon (forums.)

So you are saying that dungeons are too hard? common dungeons are so easy that some players, me include, are asking for a hard mode path to make the dungeons a real challenger.
More of the time dungeons are “stack on that corner” and went you don’t do that way the fights still very fast and easy.
You only need to learn how to dodge and heal at time, use your utilities. Learn to play.

Stompy.1387:

Also just make sure you don’t play Necro. Necro’s are generally bad at dungeon (forums.)

Necros are very good on dungeons, my necro rarely dies in a dungeon run, (only dies went a wipe happens and is the last man standing). And he have a very good damage and offers good support to the team. I found necros very fun and easy to play.

“good support”

No.

I’m 99% sure OP is Nike or one of the other hardcore dungeoneers on a troll account.

fk open world… the more people there, the harder everything is. does that make sense? having allies/teammates should mean the opposite tbh, but i feel encouraged to try to get as far away from people as possible.

had no idea what i was doing and just solod grenth priest with relative ease, whereas any time i have gone with a megaserver zerg everyone dies the second they set foot into the area in 1 hit.

At first I thought this was another one of those posts. Seems correct, legit, and another of those usual dungeon bingo posts but then checks timestamp.

WHY DID YOU RISE THIS ONE AGAIN.

Advent Leader.1083:

At first I thought this was another one of those posts. Seems correct, legit, and another of those usual dungeon bingo posts but then checks timestamp.

WHY DID YOU RISE THIS ONE AGAIN.

It is a sign, necromancers will rise to the top!

Stop necroing ancient threads…

SkyFallsInThunder.8257:

Stop necroing ancient threads…

Careful, you will anger the necro god and bring Dhuum to us all!

Gyler.8150:

SkyFallsInThunder.8257:

Stop necroing ancient threads…

Careful, you will anger the necro god and bring Dhuum to us all!

Grenth doesn’t like having the dead resurrected.

FenrirSlakt.3692:

Gyler.8150:

SkyFallsInThunder.8257:

Stop necroing ancient threads…

Careful, you will anger the necro god and bring Dhuum to us all!

Grenth doesn’t like having the dead resurrected.

Nope that was Dhuum who didnt tolerate ressing.

spoj.9672:

FenrirSlakt.3692:

Gyler.8150:

SkyFallsInThunder.8257:

Stop necroing ancient threads…

Careful, you will anger the necro god and bring Dhuum to us all!

Grenth doesn’t like having the dead resurrected.

Nope that was Dhuum who didnt tolerate ressing.

Any god whose domain is death wouldn’t take very kindly being cheated.
One of his Reapers even tasks you to kill one of his reanimated priests.

Urrelles.4018:

Well DKP I can keep up quite well in PvP avoiding 3 loads of catapult fire at a time. Funny thing is when I make a mistake in WvW during a keep seige I still have a chance to recover and continue fighting.

In a dungeon however there is no recovery chance. For instance, in AC when fighting a ranger. How the hell are you supped to avoid their traps when they instant cast right under your feet. I have my dodge key hot keyed, yet the first hit from a ranger trap will always connect. And when it connects it is half your life.

No this isnt about WoW. In WoW when you messed up a pull your team had to work 3 times as hard to recover. You could wipe just as easily in WoW. Just that WoW had CC and the trinity.

If GW2 is planning to roll without the trinity, then maybe they should make the mobs managable for people of ANY role to deal with. At the moment no one can an elite mob of 3. the only thing people can do is hope an NPC grabs the aggro or snare and dodge repeatedly. I would expect that a player could take a good 6 to 8 hits before dying. Then things would make a little more sense. but in this case it is 3 hits max and you are dead. The Endurance bar does not recover nearly fast enough to effectively kite an enemy, plus there isn’t enough space.

On the subject of world events being too easy. It really all depends on the level and amount of people present. Try doing a world event that is 2 levels higher than you with only 4 or 5 people with a champion fight in the end. It will be hard as hell, but it will be managable.

I like doing PvP and I love a good PvM dungeon, but this game’s style has no tactic except run and kite. No true CC. no real debuffs. No real buffs. These buffs and debuffs work everywhere else in the game perfectly, but in dungeons the only thing that works is a snare. Make the boss limp around after someone. You can debuff his strength but he’s still going to kill you in 2 hits. You can use knockbacks, but over half the bosses have stability. It is not good PvM. It is just a zerg fest of praying the mobs go after the right people and running for your life while your team does damage.

Edit: Oh look it was necro’d

This thread may be a year old but that doesn’t make it any less funny that somebody out there thought that world events where you hit 1 and alt tab were both challenging and fun to the point of perfection. Also if you somehow die while alt tabbed, it has zero effect on the outcome of the battle except that someone else gets daily revive progress before you are allowed to collect your dropped loot.

And then somebody necro’d the thread to agree.

Vargs.6234:

This thread may be a year old but that doesn’t make it any less funny that somebody out there thought that world events where you hit 1 and alt tab were both challenging and fun to the point of perfection. Also if you somehow die while alt tabbed, it has zero effect on the outcome of the battle except that someone else gets daily revive progress before you are allowed to collect your dropped loot.

And then somebody necro’d the thread to agree.

Yes and my agreement was totally sincere and non-sarcastically/jokingly stated.

Why all the recent necros :/

I think it’s a message on the state of the game, how despite all the living story prettyness, the state of the game is still a big mess. That’s how i look at it.