Guild Wars 2

I recently ran a dungeon for Arah and saw something very disturbing. I’ve never played an mmo where you skip almost every single trash mob just to get to the end boss faster. I’ve also never seen an mmo where you can reflect the boss’s giant downing aoe and for that to be considered “knowing how to play.” Also I’ve never see an mmo where speed clearing is the NORMAL way of playing through the games dungeon content. I’m aware this game isn’t like any other mmo. The new trinity, the active mitigation, and the freedom to play any way you want are great. How ever, that last one is completely killed off currently in the dungeon scene, even if you run with a guild group, but I’ll get into that later. The main issue I personally have with how dungeons work currently is that you just skip the entire instance just to kill the bosses then leave. Then on top of that, we find the “sweat spot” so that we take the least amount of damage and the least amount of movement to capitalize on melee dps, since it is currently the highest dps in the game. The new holy trinity that GW2 introduced has now been completely killed off by this style of play. Now it’s just the straight line of burst dps via berserker gear. We can no longer play how we want if we want to do dungeons, we HAVE to play the way a select group of players have decided to be the best way. In my guild I’ve personally seen people ask for “zerker and exped only” players to run with them. Any new coming player will see that and possibly get turned off from dungeoning since it’s so constricting in how you play. I’m not saying nerf the gear set, I’m saying make the other play styles just as useful. This ties back in to what’s wrong with the dungeon scene currently, skipping almost all of the instance destroys any need for support build and controll builds, making them primarily a pvp only play style. As well as almost all gear sets being only useful for WvW content. The only way I can see this being fixed is if they make major boss attacks, like Lupi’s aoe ability in phase 2, not reflect-able and to make it so that you cant just skip the mass majority of the instance. It will open up room in groups for other play styles rather than “just run past this mob, then we stack here and burst the boss down.” Perhaps even make some mobs able to see stealth targets so that thieves don’t become the new “meta” class to play.

Existing dungeons do not need a wholesale revision. New content needs to be made better instead.

The problem is “healers” can only really heal Warriors/Necros etc. Id love to see a full cleric guardian heal my zerker ele, even full Benevolence, Cleric gears, cleric utilitys/traits cannot heal my ele, since im basically going to be 1 shot, also you have to be in range etc… it might work on certain class comps but when you get ele/thief/ranger id like to see you heal them from 1hp to full even in the most tankiest of gear that does 0 dmg

You can play how you want. Start your own group and set your own rules.

Play how you want and let me play how I want.

Stooperdale.3560:

Existing dungeons do not need a wholesale revision. New content needs to be made better instead.

A thousand times this. 20 months with only the AC revamp, FotM and one substitute TA path?

Keltach.8049:

I’ve also never seen an mmo where you can reflect the boss’s giant downing aoe and for that to be considered “knowing how to play.”

It is since you are countering a boss mechanic. Counters exist in a lot of games from single player RPGs to MMORPGs.

Keltach.8049:

Also I’ve never see an mmo where speed clearing is the NORMAL way of playing through the games dungeon content.

LFG PuGs aren’t considered speed clearing. If you are lucky you get like 25-30 minute arah. Speed is like 15 minute arah paths or faster for a coordinated group. That is about half the time you would find in a PuG. Your idea of what is “speed” is clearly off. On top of that every MMO out there people are trying to farm and maximize the frequency of their rewards. Hence speed is always a factor whether you are aware of it or not it exist in other games.

Keltach.8049:

The new trinity, the active mitigation, and the freedom to play any way you want are great. How ever, that last one is completely killed off currently in the dungeon scene, even if you run with a guild group, but I’ll get into that later.

You are in the wrong guild then. You can’t expect everything to fit you perfectly. If the guild isn’t for you then consider finding another one. But saying that the dungeon scene is killed off when you didn’t even try to find a group of individuals who play like you is just bad.

Keltach.8049:

Then on top of that, we find the “sweat spot” so that we take the least amount of damage and the least amount of movement to capitalize on melee dps, since it is currently the highest dps in the game.

First of all staff Ele camp fire attunement on say 6/6/0/0/2. There is a reason range weapons aren’t that great for the most part. On top of that, using the environment and finding areas where you can effectively engage something or pull something exist in other games. It can be a hallway where you aggro enemies to and just AoE bomb. I don’t see anything different really.

Keltach.8049:

The new holy trinity that GW2 introduced has now been completely killed off by this style of play. Now it’s just the straight line of burst dps via berserker gear. We can no longer play how we want if we want to do dungeons, we HAVE to play the way a select group of players have decided to be the best way.

The attitude of playing how you want is really bad. GW2 is all about team play. And that requires you to play as a team even if it means using something you don’t want. If you were playing by yourself and your actions don’t affect anyone then sure play how you want. An example of a game where you can play how you want is Skyrim.

Berserker is gear with dps stats. That doesn’t mean if you play say DPS guardian with GS + Sword/Focus you only do damage. You are doing much more with defensive and support abilities as well.

Keltach.8049:

This ties back in to what’s wrong with the dungeon scene currently, skipping almost all of the instance destroys any need for support build and controll builds, making them primarily a pvp only play style…

What kind of support are you looking for? We have things like blinds, aegis, reflects, projectile absorption, might, protection, stability, and condition removals. This is support is it not. And it is used quite often. There is control but people don’t know how to maximize it in PuGs. Ice bow #5 on the ooze boss in Arah p1? How about control on Shoggroth in Arah p1? How about removing the defiant stacks and holding your CCs until the boss does a strong attack that you can interrupt for your team so they have some extra dps time. Just because PuGs can’t accomplish this doesn’t mean control or support doesn’t exist in GW2.

How does changing Lupi phase 2 change skip. Skips will happen anyhow. Plus if we start this for Lupi then should we just change every boss mechanic in the game just because there are ways for us to counter it?

Not sure but good thieves are always loved for their stealth to skip. Not sure why you want to remove that because you are removing a core thief mechanic just to try to promote some gameplay or style you want which I am not sure what it is since you didn’t state it at all.

Certain builds and style of play are only good in specific game modes. Decap Engi is great in sPvP but the same build wouldn’t work in WvW or PvE. The reason is that it is based on the game mode. You can’t have a game mode where everything works equally where every style is equal. Some builds or play styles are just better in certain game modes. That is the reality of gaming.

again, @ keltach i repeat what i said ingame here again.

1, learn the mechanics before asking for a change.

2, nobody said zerkers only. ure a bunker and gladly let u stay. only thing i said about it is, if you are experienced, you are not required to play bunker. and hint was, you die anyway even if ure bunker if u dont learn the mechanics or dont know dodge exist.

3, claiming reflects etc to be inappropriate for a class, or the fact of that skill shouldn’t exist, is not appropriate. you are not anet, you are not a dev, you dont reserve the right to bend anet to change things to your liking ignoring everyone else. is that a learn to play issue? let others decide.

4, you cant, doesnt mean others cant as well. why not stop, think and understand/learn? you can have your way, how u play how u wanna roll, nobody cares, but if you need someone to explain how to, you can simply ask not by calling people names and such or complaining in forums.

anyway, im done talking. if you insist your way is the high way and right way. go for it. nothing is right or wrong imo, experience, learn, understand is most important.

btw, you also have an elixir skill @ toolbelt that gives smokescreen or wall of reflection.. learn to use them?

Yes they do need fixed.

Skipping the majority of a dungeon then burning a boss down in 3 seconds is beyond tedious.

Mac.3872:

Yes they do need fixed.

Skipping the majority of a dungeon then burning a boss down in 3 seconds is beyond tedious.

video of yourself doing arah bosses in 3 seconds or it didnt happen.

even if you can, its skill based. u still die 1 hit if you dont use dodge or learn the mechanics. high damage high risk. no?

Why should people kill mobs that don’t drop loot? Because you want them to have to? Hardly a good reason. People play games to have fun, not run some gauntlet because you think they should have to work harder for their reward.

Boyd.5438:

here is what happened… sry i dont post on forums much or warrior here alot but here is what happened. screenshotted. if interested can request to post whole convo.

So….you got blasted for being told to learn to play?

And then came here, where you were told to….learn to play?

Yeah Ok.

Otherwise, I do agree generally with OP to an extent about dungeons needing a revamp, but those are completely different reasons. I too have never played a game where the most optimal path involves borderline exploits or blatant memorization of enemy spawn patterns in order to completely bypass those encounters, due to the time investment/reward ratio for this game is way off (several other conversations, not going there).

However, I suggest those who have not done so to take a peek at the dungeon forums and how they are now essentially dead because Anet never checks them and they let go their lead dungeon designer around a year ago and merged the remaining dungeon programmers into living world teams (i wish i could find the quote where they said this, but it’s true).

Dungeons need to be reworked so they are more fun, allow for more build diversity (almost every dungeon has a DPS check, hence the popularity of ice bow, this allows any character with it to dramatically increase their output temporarily). And of course some of the longer dungeons deserve higher rewards in gold to keep pace with the rate of inflation in the game economy.

But hey, buy moar gems..

chaosdeity.6287:

Boyd.5438:

here is what happened… sry i dont post on forums much or warrior here alot but here is what happened. screenshotted. if interested can request to post whole convo.

So….you got blasted for being told to learn to play?

And then came here, where you were told to….learn to play?

Yeah Ok.

Otherwise, I do agree generally with OP to an extent about dungeons needing a revamp, but those are completely different reasons. I too have never played a game where the most optimal path involves borderline exploits or blatant memorization of enemy spawn patterns in order to completely bypass those encounters, due to the time investment/reward ratio for this game is way off (several other conversations, not going there).

However, I suggest those who have not done so to take a peek at the dungeon forums and how they are now essentially dead because Anet never checks them and they let go their lead dungeon designer around a year ago and merged the remaining dungeon programmers into living world teams (i wish i could find the quote where they said this, but it’s true).

Dungeons need to be reworked so they are more fun, allow for more build diversity (almost every dungeon has a DPS check, hence the popularity of ice bow, this allows any character with it to dramatically increase their output temporarily). And of course some of the longer dungeons deserve higher rewards in gold to keep pace with the rate of inflation in the game economy.

But hey, buy moar gems..

hey, look. i really dont care what anet does or what anet is going to do.

my point is pretty straight forward.

1, LEARN the mechanics, before asking people to change stuff. if you cant dodge lupi kick or grub, if you dont know how to dodge lupi aoe without relying on a mesmer, OR simply dont know how to understand the current mechanics, you have imo, no rights to ask for any changes because you havent known anything yet.

2, Saying Reflection is overpowerwed, is similar to saying bunker build condition damage is OP.

3, the whole issue started when our engineer friend here talked big @ lupi fight as if hes godly and then he died, and started talking bullcrap about mesmer reflect cuz it was the only one alive. NOW.. wait what? mesmer reflect op? OK so if a warrior is soloing it, so warrior OP?

jesus man, my whole point of even posting here is pretty much to say, learn your class, learn the mechanics, dont complain before u understand.

idk how to post the remaining pictures all here in 1 go, but heck if u insist i can do it. u will see where its going at what hes saying. first he calls people elitist for leaving the dungeon cuz they simply cant do the spider tunnel, ok… i didnt say anything…

THEN, when he died at lupi and someone else is doing the work, he says mesmer reflects are op cuz mesmer alone alive..

SO, my personal conclusion is, he is just jealous when someone else does better than him because he cant bare to be the underdog.

he doesnt take advice, doesnt wanna know, doesnt wanna care. just wanna stay dead and leech from the run. get what i mean?

and edit:

he said “I HAVE DUNGEON MASTER TITLE”
we said “THAT DOESNT MEAN kitten”
he said “IT MEANS I DID EVERY SINGLE DUNGEON PATH ONCE”

boasting about being a dungeon master is irrelevant. i got my dungeon master 3 to 5 months after launch.. so?

i did every dungeon every path at least 100 times. so?

if there was a dungeon grandmaster to do 1000 dungeon runs every path every dungeon, i can assure you among the people in this forum, plenty of people already got it and already got their dungeon hobby explorer repeated at least 1k times.

boast more? people dont talk doesnt mean people dont know or never did.

So because I got downed and died and you claimed you could solo then also downed and died, then me saying you shouldnt be able to reflect a boss’s damage right back at them means i’m saying nerf everything? I also never claimed to be “godly” as you put it, I claimed I knew what I was playing and was comfortable enough with it. You’re the one who made claims that you can solo instances and just couldn’t solo path 2 of arah. Please keep editing the post above this one, it’s entertaining to see you struggle to prove you’re 100% right in everything you say.

chaosdeity.6287:

Otherwise, I do agree generally with OP to an extent about dungeons needing a revamp, but those are completely different reasons. I too have never played a game where the most optimal path involves borderline exploits or blatant memorization of enemy spawn patterns in order to completely bypass those encounters, due to the time investment/reward ratio for this game is way off (several other conversations, not going there).

How is it an exploit? Is it an exploit to funnel mobs into a narrow hallway and stack AoEs and kill them all? Is it an exploit to use a core profession mechanic to accomplish something (e.g. thief stealth). Is it an exploit to pull the entire room into one spot and AoE bomb it to clear.

How is it bad to memorize things in games. Have you seen the speed run of old games like Mario. Part of that is skill and part of that is memorizing what you have to do. Why is that bad? If you don’t like it may I suggest PvP (sPvP or WvW). Even then you memorize or at least know your own rotations and what to do against certain professions. You memorize tells and such. You can’t expect PvE to be completely different every second it is scripted. So after doing it for a while everyone will memorize things.

chaosdeity.6287:

Dungeons need to be reworked so they are more fun, allow for more build diversity (almost every dungeon has a DPS check, hence the popularity of ice bow, this allows any character with it to dramatically increase their output temporarily). And of course some of the longer dungeons deserve higher rewards in gold to keep pace with the rate of inflation in the game economy.

But hey, buy moar gems..

Define fun. I find it fun to skip and dps really high while having to pay attention to use active defensive properly. DPS is the main thing in everything. You take out bosses. A boss’ health isn’t going down without damage. In the same way, a zerg ball in WvW isn’t going down without someone doing damage to that zerg. And in the same light, if you want to take out someone on a cap point you have to kill them hence doing damage to take out the threat.

Ice bow is working as intended. That is what conjures are for. They are used to give someone else a different set of abilities that help them do something. What do you suggest Ice Bow should do that wouldn’t make it useless.

Your final comment suggest to me that you only care about what you said. So what if people buy gems that is their choice. Why are you forcing your own definition of what is good onto other people?

Inb4 Mesmer’s reflect is OP Condi war solo Lupi for 5:30’’. You are welcome!

Disclaimer: Neither the class nor build is OP. The player is simply godly. Check out his other solo/duo records, including a 5-man team SEVEN kitten SECOND record. All is vain.

People don’t do the trash because they’re tedious and they drop nothing. Literally, they drop nothing.

Willy Wonka: You wasted all that time killing trash and they DROPPED. NOTHING. YOU LOSE. GOOD DAY GROUP

In all seriousness, people don’t want to waste their play time killing things that offer no reward. Most people realize what a waste of time the trash is in this game. I for one don’t particularly feel like wasting 45 minutes killing trash that I know isn’t going to get me squat for loot.

I don’t think the dungeons need a revamp I think the rewards need a second look. Too many of the dungeons are too easy and the harder ones do not grant that much more in rewards.

That or scaling needs to be fixed to make it more difficult for level 80’s with exotics.

meh, tunnel vision much keltech, the biggest problem i have against you is saying i exploited.

first of all, u said reflection is an exploit.

secondly, skipping patroling mobs that run around that you dont have or need to engage is an exploit.

let me tell you this, ive played with many other players good and bad godly and totally trash, NONE TILL DATE have ever had your attitude.

DnT IX rT Ren etc legit dungeon dudes are all haxors, glitchers and exploiters if put into your definition.

if you are having issues, go youtube. learn something from them instead of calling them stuff.

edit, imo its because of people like you, things get destroyed before other players can experience or learn things. you are the old trinity player aka, stand and tank while having someone heal you from behind totally ignoring the damage taken.

the gw2 mechanic is all about avoiding damage, but in your context, avoiding damage and or returning damage to source is an exploit.

retaliation, mistform, shield of earth invul, mesmer f4, warrior defiance stance endure pain, all hacks. engi elixir to avoid damage also exploit.

engi themself have 3 types of skills/utils to reflect by themself, first of all, shield. secondly toolbelt elixir for wor or smokescreen chance, 3, turret reflection. because its not as effective, doesnt mean that you dont have or cannot utilize it.

explain how am i exploiting broken game mechanics, as you have stated on this screenshot?

edit again forgot to mention.

1, you are a bunker, i assume you have traited conditions, but you dont use nades to spam conditions or vuln etc for group support. even if not traited for condi, you can cast some condi control skills to contain swarms with bombkit with blinds. no u did not.

2, you dont know the mechanics where after every grub or swarm spawn he kicks if agroed person is in melee range, you dont know how to avoid it.

3, when the boss goes into phase 2 and gives you an upper cut, you dont know the animation, nor do you care to ask.

4, phase 3, you kill your teammates by running all over the place causing dome on yourself and people around you without granting stability to team mates if you know you are going to get it. also engi are ranged characters, you can at least stay in melee range to get might blasts, contribute to might blasts, and avoid taking damage by learning his movements. YOU are basically the cause of a group wipe if it wipes. people do run out of stability. if you play with a necro or thief, they are gonna be swiss cheese everytime they get domed.

Ahem, I see it says “you can’t spell reflect in WoW.” I spell reflected on my Prot Warrior on bosses all the time. I haven’t played since ’11 though, so maybe times changed?

CuRtoKy.8576:

chaosdeity.6287:

Otherwise, I do agree generally with OP to an extent about dungeons needing a revamp, but those are completely different reasons. I too have never played a game where the most optimal path involves borderline exploits or blatant memorization of enemy spawn patterns in order to completely bypass those encounters, due to the time investment/reward ratio for this game is way off (several other conversations, not going there).

How is it an exploit? Is it an exploit to funnel mobs into a narrow hallway and stack AoEs and kill them all? Is it an exploit to use a core profession mechanic to accomplish something (e.g. thief stealth). Is it an exploit to pull the entire room into one spot and AoE bomb it to clear.

How is it bad to memorize things in games. Have you seen the speed run of old games like Mario. Part of that is skill and part of that is memorizing what you have to do. Why is that bad? If you don’t like it may I suggest PvP (sPvP or WvW). Even then you memorize or at least know your own rotations and what to do against certain professions. You memorize tells and such. You can’t expect PvE to be completely different every second it is scripted. So after doing it for a while everyone will memorize things.

chaosdeity.6287:

Dungeons need to be reworked so they are more fun, allow for more build diversity (almost every dungeon has a DPS check, hence the popularity of ice bow, this allows any character with it to dramatically increase their output temporarily). And of course some of the longer dungeons deserve higher rewards in gold to keep pace with the rate of inflation in the game economy.

But hey, buy moar gems..

Define fun. I find it fun to skip and dps really high while having to pay attention to use active defensive properly. DPS is the main thing in everything. You take out bosses. A boss’ health isn’t going down without damage. In the same way, a zerg ball in WvW isn’t going down without someone doing damage to that zerg. And in the same light, if you want to take out someone on a cap point you have to kill them hence doing damage to take out the threat.

Ice bow is working as intended. That is what conjures are for. They are used to give someone else a different set of abilities that help them do something. What do you suggest Ice Bow should do that wouldn’t make it useless.

Your final comment suggest to me that you only care about what you said. So what if people buy gems that is their choice. Why are you forcing your own definition of what is good onto other people?

Hey I can respect if you find things fun different then I do. It’s just generally accepted across the board that dungeons in their current state are mildly dysfunctional, from design to loot. But hey, I run most of them every day and I benefit from this so I’m not exactly complaining. And that exploit comment was referencing the entire last year and more over dungeons, not just their current iteration. Many speed clears and paths relied on players learning exploits (CM cliff glitch, as an example). Hallways and stacking are actually good mechanics, Line of Sight is good, but there are specific certain encounters that people blow through by using absurdly high DPS and that’s one of the only ways to clear a dungeon in any relatively quick method. What I am saying is certain fights are so out of line, mechanically and design wise, that they force very specific team set ups, which is fine. But not all the time (I am looking at you, Zerk meta). And before we go along with the “filthy casual” argument, I have a zerk war and participate in those runs myself. I also have almost every other class maxed and understand other roles. But this isnt made to be a zerk conversation, I was looking at dungeon mechanics themselves. Active Defense is another great OPTION, but shouldn’t be an entire tactic.

I also want to say this thread should be deleted. Two people are coming here to argue about a dispute in a dungeon under the guise of productive commentary. That doesn’t enhance anyone present.

hey i agree tread should be deleted cuz its going nowhere anyway

also no, i do not agree when you say you need a certain class for something, every class or a mix of any class can do any dungeons just fine, unless ure going full necros only.

zerker meta isnt really a meta imo, its just how people play when they can avoid taking damage. u can easily class players to 3 different regions, 1, experienced in the field, 2, ameture, 3, totally new.

for new players they will go for survival because they still dont konw how to, ametures will go for a better damage build while learning how to avoid damage, the experienced group will always go with berserker because of the high damage high risk challenge if not just the speed.

regardless of which class or how people play, any build, class or playstyle can complete a dungeon without much issues provided they learn their class and know how to use active defence. heck, even lupi can be done without dodging with full group of 5 on cleric gear. forgot where the vid is but im sure i saw it before.

im serious, NO DODGE! roflmao. if u can find it, link it here.

and this discussion wasnt even about zerker if u wanna look at the root cause. its simply because someone cannot acceept others being abit better and or take any advice.

I have to agree with the sentiments of others.

People wouldn’t skip trash if the loot was better. Taking an hour to clear a full dungeon path makes no sense when you can show up at a world boss for 20 seconds and get 3x the loot.

It’s not the dungeons that need to be fixed, but rather the lacking capacity to think displayed by all the stacking/skipping/berserker/whatever whiners.

Keltach.8049:

So because I got downed and died and you claimed you could solo then also downed and died, then me saying you shouldnt be able to reflect a boss’s damage right back at them means i’m saying nerf everything? I also never claimed to be “godly” as you put it, I claimed I knew what I was playing and was comfortable enough with it. You’re the one who made claims that you can solo instances and just couldn’t solo path 2 of arah. Please keep editing the post above this one, it’s entertaining to see you struggle to prove you’re 100% right in everything you say.

ooo i missed this, ok here goes, i can, and will, rather solo path 2 if it wasnt that boring and repetitive. everytime same thing again and again. btw you joined @ abom, guess who soloed the first dude?

the reason behind why i posted at abom and not at start was simply a filter, if you cant do the run, dont join thats why i dont even drop portals.

and 2, soloing arah tbh is much easier than having someone in group to cause havoc, besides, the illusionist, hunters, and mage are far more painful compared to lupi. hes cheese. also they tough and dont give loot.

at the point since you joined, you complained about skipping mobs, complained about reflects, complained about exploiting that was non existent. nobody used the boat glitch, nobody used underwater glitch, i keep my runs legit i dont wanna get banned.

and yes im very unhappy since you joined the group, even the guardian with 500 ap does better than you due to the fact he knows how to use WoR, knows Aegis, knows stand your ground and shelter etc. altho he kittened up at alphard for standing inside of boss red circle but yea. i did not kick, i did not remove you, i just played along hoping it to end and be done. i didnt even call you names etc, you were the one bashing everyone else as elitists etc. not enough screenshots? wanna start from first since you joined group?

you post here on forums all high and mighty, anet should change this, must do that, have to bend over and appease you. sorry but i think you didn’t get the memo.

there are, for crying out loud, 99999 players here that have at least 10 times the experience you have, 10 times the time spent in spvp where u like most, 10 times more time spent running dungeons and understanding most or all mechanic ingame even world bosses, some might have done it at least 365 x2 times if just once a day.

people dont bend over to make you happy just because you want everything to fit your liking. irl circumstances you adapt, you change.

most of the forums posts that been crying for nerfs/glitchfix, u see the side effects?

here i will state a few,

glitchfix issues.

people exploiting mobs with range and boss dies without dealing a single damage. result, mobs have invul mode now defence from that. how is it fair for ranged players like ranger and engi? say asuran fractal with the harpies. if you dont melee, you get invul issues.

nerfs,

A player suck bigtime, havent learn how to complains to change nerf class B. class B gets nerf hammer, class B complains, nerfs class C, class C complains, nerf D end of the day its just a vicious cycle nothing changes, it all goes back to point 1.

up side : people are happy with the nerfs,

down side: things get more difficult in other sutiations where needed like pve etc because of stupid limitations caused by people crying non stop.

by nerf, i mean deliberately causing a core role of a certain class to be unable or handicapped in situations.

by handicapping others, you are handicapping yourself.

you dont get better, u get worse. why? because u wont get a chance to learn or improve.

basically this is what i see from your main post altho you dont state it as “NERF THIS THAT” but the main point of your post is really similar.

Keltach.8049:

-snip-

Make your own group, problem solved.

clone thread#5168411350065103

CptAurellian.9537:

It’s not the dungeons that need to be fixed, but rather the lacking capacity to think displayed by all the stacking/skipping/berserker/whatever whiners.

tell me,

if you dont stay within range for might blast, will you get it?

if a mob hits for 10k per hit with 3.5 million estimated HP, will you run out of the blindfield and attack him till it dies without any active defence skills?

if you play a necro, will you stand out of the feedback bubble and take the damage?

those are stacking isnt it? regardless if zerker or not.

Boyd.5438:

CptAurellian.9537:

It’s not the dungeons that need to be fixed, but rather the lacking capacity to think displayed by all the stacking/skipping/berserker/whatever whiners.

tell me,

if you dont stay within range for might blast, will you get it?

if a mob hits for 10k per hit with 3.5 million estimated HP, will you run out of the blindfield and attack him till it dies without any active defence skills?

if you play a necro, will you stand out of the feedback bubble and take the damage?

those are stacking isnt it? regardless if zerker or not.

Friendly fire!

might want to read his statement again.

Boyd your desperation astounds me really. It’s even more ironic how I never even mentioned you in my post, yet you completely go out of your way to attack me directly on the forums. I also never said to nerf anything, I have no idea where you’re getting that from, stop attacking me on the forums directly when all I did was start a general discussion. I did not mention your name or any one in the groups name, nor did i bring up anything that was said by you or by any one in that group. On a more on topic note, I do feel that the trash mobs are a bit lacking when it comes to risk/time vs reward, but that’s for a lot of content in this game. Would a higher gold reward at the end for killing all the trash make it worth it, or are you just looking for straight loot?

Dungeons, stack here and don’t move and faceroll the boss. Oh and be sure to be wearing zerk. Tired of this stupid easy content.

Lol. No just explain yes or no then they can see. Easier to just post on forums so they know what went wrong xD i mean.. stacking los etc serves a purpose. Most ppl like keltech might not have notice yet. Trinity man… full cleric set lure all spam 1 finish.

point, i understand what hes trying to say, just elaborating abit without drawing a snake and adding in legs on snake to “simulate” it moves.. incase he have yet to know……..

lol, “you shouldn’t be able to reflect a boss period”?

you for real mate?

A giant AOE like lupi’s that does massive damage I don’t think you should be able to reflect it back considering how much damage is being reflected. How ever basic shots I do think are ok to be reflected back. Perhaps it shouldn’t reflect 100% of the damage it does if it were to be something similar to that aoe. Perhaps i was too harsh in being so blunt about it.

Keltach.8049:

A giant AOE like lupi’s that does massive damage I don’t think you should be able to reflect it back considering how much damage is being reflected. How ever basic shots I do think are ok to be reflected back. Perhaps it shouldn’t reflect 100% of the damage it does if it were to be something similar to that aoe. Perhaps i was too harsh in being so blunt about it.

proven u dont know the mechanics yet, only 20 projectiles are reflected, it was patched long time ago where you can easily do 70% HP just via reflect.

please learn your class and stop claiming that you know everything, you just proven yourself wrong yet again.

You can’t tell Boyd he’s exploiting poor game design when it’s completely subjective. There’s a LOT of people who actually like not killing every single mob in the dungeon. I’m one of them. I think it’s thrilling to sneak past patrol mobs and try to survive traps laid out everywhere without aggroing a million zombies. I find it FUN!

Just because you dislike it doesn’t mean it’s a poor design and reflects are intentional. You’re the one who’s being the parasite here by trying to discourage people from playing the game the way it was meant to be played— by utilising the abilities and skills offered to us in order to succeed. Reflects aren’t cheating, nor is it cheating to skip past patrol mobs that weren’t intended to be killed. In fact, it was even announced that a lot of the mobs were NOT intended to be killed.

Mesmers have awful damage without reflects anyways, so what do you want — them to be rendered useless for anything other than portals? Do you want thieves to be unneeded in dungeons too?

Thank god you aren’t a developer for this game.

Dungeons are what you make of them. If you are unhappy with how some pugs in LFG play then start your own group or join a Guild with like minded players. I rarely pug anything because I don’t like to skip mobs or stack. I prefer to enjoy the content my way but there are people that wants to get through the content fast and that is their choice. The options for everyone are there, use it.

A giant AOE like lupi’s that does massive damage I don’t think you should be able to reflect it back considering how much damage is being reflected. How ever basic shots I do think are ok to be reflected back. Perhaps it shouldn’t reflect 100% of the damage it does if it were to be something similar to that aoe. Perhaps i was too harsh in being so blunt about it.

Considering you need to be in a pretty optimised party to get “massive damage”, I think it’s fine. In a pug or solo setting you’re not going to be getting massive amounts of reflects most of the time, and if you’re missing banners and/or fury then the reflects might not even crit and will be weaker as well.

How ever that nerf means nothing since it’s required to melee lupi now so it still reflects a ton of damage back while every one takes nothing.

Assumption #1 – people are meleeing
Assumption #2 – it’s a mesmer using reflect
Assumption #3 – people are still alive
Assumption #4 – the mesmer knows what to reflect
Assumption #5 – the reflect class has close to maximum critical chance (banner of discipline, fury, spotter)
Assumption #6 – a lot of vulnerability has been applied prior to the AOE

These are pretty huge assumptions to make in most groups. The fact of the matter is, the projectiles being reflectable is a non-issue and can’t even be fully utilised in 99% of groups.

It seems that this thread has become an attack the original poster for his thoughts instead of a discussion. I’m sorry I don’t find it normal to skip every single trash pack in this game, if you find it fun that’s more power to you. Every one keeps throwing the term “unneeded” where did I say kill off a class? You cant stealth past a certain trash pack there for thieves are now unneeded? What kind of logic is that? there are plenty of mmo games out there that have mobs like that, and the rogue archetype is still popular in many of them. Just because “a lot” of them are meant to be skipped, that does not mean all or only the ones I have to if there isn’t a way around. Also I didn’t know it was parasitic to start a discussion in the discussion forum? When did that appear in the forum rules? Also the “utilizing abilities” part, so every one should use the same abilities because it is the best way to bum rush past all of the mobs? Also can you link where the devs posted that most trash mobs are meant to be skipped if such a post exists?

Thank god you aren’t a developer for this game either

Keltach.8049:

Also I didn’t know it was parasitic to start a discussion in the discussion forum?

It’s not a discussion on your end, it;s a rant coupled with some seriously bad suggestions.

Keltach.8049:

Also can you link where the devs posted that most trash mobs are meant to be skipped if such a post exists?

Is skipping an exploit? no, read sig link. If it isn’t an exploit and if it isn’t against ToS then everyone is free to do so.

edit: lol thread got sent to the trashcan

Lol I personally don’t care what people say in pug I do most of my dungeons with guilders and if they are kitten to me I just leave them…who cares there are millions of guilds and about zerker it’s not bad you just need to learn how to dodge since ur squishy in it (I personally like knight/celestial)

Keltach.8049:

We can no longer play how we want if we want to do dungeons, we HAVE to play the way a select group of players have decided to be the best way.

This is one of the stupidest statements I have seen on this forum, and that’s saying something. For the first part, see above. For the second part, the “select group of players” did not “decide” that is how others must play. They simply tested a lot of builds and playstyles, did a lot of math and came up with the conclusion that a party must do X and Y if they want to obtain Z result. You are free to ignore this (very valuable) research and play however the kitten you want, but do so alone or with people who share your opinions and stop bothering us “elitists”. I don’t care for sight-seeing in AC p3 on my #57809 run there.

Keltach.8049:

It seems that this thread has become an attack the original poster for his thoughts instead of a discussion. I’m sorry I don’t find it normal to skip every single trash pack in this game, if you find it fun that’s more power to you.

You are demanding the game be catered towards your style of play.

Keltach.8049:

Every one keeps throwing the term “unneeded” where did I say kill off a class? You cant stealth past a certain trash pack there for thieves are now unneeded? What kind of logic is that? there are plenty of mmo games out there that have mobs like that, and the rogue archetype is still popular in many of them.

Popular =/= good. It can be fun but still suck. Define what you are saying. How can removing stealth still make thief good or why are rogues good? Also, we are talking about GW2. One of the core things thieves bring to the table is stealth. You originally said there should be mobs that see through stealth. This would make thief less valuable as a class since stealth a core mechanic on thief is useless. Then you have the choice of running thief or something else. It is like Mesmer. Guardians can reflect like Mesmer. Mesmer have lower dps than Guardians but have TW to try to make it up. The big thing for Mesmer is portal. Now if you don’t use portal what reason would you have to bring Mesmer instead of Guardian which is superior right now. Parties have 5 slots and not everything is going to be included. If Guardian can do everything a mesmer can and guardians can do it better why pick mesmer. If you remove a thief’s usefulness like stealth they will have less value as a pick for a group. How is that not killing a class by removing the usefulness of core profession mechanics?

Keltach.8049:

Just because “a lot” of them are meant to be skipped, that does not mean all or only the ones I have to if there isn’t a way around. Also I didn’t know it was parasitic to start a discussion in the discussion forum? When did that appear in the forum rules? Also the “utilizing abilities” part, so every one should use the same abilities because it is the best way to bum rush past all of the mobs? Also can you link where the devs posted that most trash mobs are meant to be skipped if such a post exists?

Thank god you aren’t a developer for this game either

How is everyone using the same abilities? Last I check every profession has different ones. If it is the best way to succeed then yes use that. Trying to be unique just for the sake of being unique is bad it should be do whatever it takes to succeed (team plays).

The question becomes, why is there a need to kill a trash mob then? It is part of the dungeon design. If someone created a map for an FPS game. Your objective is to enter this complex and retrieve something. The complex has 4 entrances. You can completely stealth through it and it takes skill (Metal Gear Solid style). Or you can remove some enemies at one entrance and enter there. But why would anyone in their right mind go out of the way to take out guards on all 4 entrances when it isn’t needed. This is what you are asking people to do. You are suggesting that people should go out of their way to kill things that they don’t really need to do. Like why?

We need an official statement by Arena net why these posters don’t get instabanned from the forums.
Both the topics are spammed daily and both their attitude is insulting and rude, meanwhile me and others get banned for weeks for non-sense things.
Have a nice day!

ps: learn to play
pps: i bet he is sub 1k AP, so relatively new to the game

STOP FEEDING kitten THREADS AND POSTERS.
Maybe they will go away.
….
Though those daily re/tard thread are pretty funny sometimes i have to admit.

Also sort of related: Anyone still remember this guy? -> https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/members/Floryn-6307/showposts

Floryn.6307:

nagr.1593:

Now since its profitable to only run one path daily once, however if it is say a daily speed run for all paths of a dungeon, it makes perfect sense to occasionally see people checking for zerk gear. Though I would say again the number of elitist posts has drastically reduced..

Please stop implying that zerkers are elitists. Most zerkers are utterly noobs, labels like this is what generates false myths and leads to a so called general consensus.

Dead DPS is no DPS.

That being said I am strongly against cleric gear, PVT on the other hand is perfectly acceptable, specially in high lvl fotms .

Tl;dr: Zerker gear can be excellent unfortunately most ppl using it are not.

My PVT stats self buffed only,:
(wvw reset day so my hp is 1 000 lower than normal)

Link to post w/ a selfie of him: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/No-one-cares-what-armor-you-wear/first#post3008958

He’s king “PVT” fedoria the 88th.

Bread.7516:

Friendly fire!

might want to read his statement again.

Somehow I wonder whether I’ll manage not to forget the small word “anti” once …

Keltach.8049:

In my guild I’ve personally seen people ask for “zerker and exped only” players to run with them.

So join a less kitteny guild?

Start your own LFGs?

Read the stickies at the top of the dungeon forums?

You can play how you want, just don’t expect to join groups that want a different playstyle and expect them to change for you.

But you’re not going to find many players that will full clear Arah. The mobs are meant to be skipped there. Think of it as a new type of challenge. Personally, I really don’t feel like I know a profession until I can use my weapon and utility skills well enough to reliably survive all of the Arah skips.

I’m not saying nerf the gear set, I’m saying make the other play styles just as useful.

The players have been literally begging for this since release. ANet replies “Would more Scarlet help?”

The only way I can see this being fixed is if they make major boss attacks, like Lupi’s aoe ability in phase 2, not reflect-able and to make it so that you cant just skip the mass majority of the instance.

You don’t realize that many of us like Arah the way it is. Just because you don’t enjoy the same playstyle as the groups you’ve encountered doesn’t mean the way they play is wrong. You just need to find a guild that shares your views and start your own LFGs with things like “casual run”, “full clear”, etc in the description.

It will open up room in groups for other play styles rather than “just run past this mob, then we stack here and burst the boss down.” Perhaps even make some mobs able to see stealth targets so that thieves don’t become the new “meta” class to play.

Just relax — the players you’ve been running with have been running the same paths for over a year. We don’t want to spend 4 hours clearing all of the trash in Arah, we want to have fun. And after the 600th run of the same path, fun doesn’t mean clearing trash — it means pushing ourselves to see how fast we can do things, how well we can coordinate, how much might/vuln uptime we can manage, etc.

Seriously, go post in the guild recruitment forum looking for a guild that does casual, no-stack, no-skip dungeon runs. You’ll be much happier, and won’t have to come here and tell us that we’re playing wrong just because we’re bored with slow dungeon runs.

Your playstyle is fine, and don’t let anyone tell you differently. But keep in mind that so is ours. It’s all a matter of finding like-minded party members.

Best of luck.

Bread.7516:

Keltach.8049:

Also can you link where the devs posted that most trash mobs are meant to be skipped if such a post exists?

Is skipping an exploit? no, read sig link. If it isn’t an exploit and if it isn’t against ToS then everyone is free to do so.

edit: lol thread got sent to the trashcan

O.o sneaky sneaky anet….

4024 ap actually

People keep assuming i’m saying ALL mobs should have it when I’ve clearly only said some, also thieves can bring a poison share support build to groups, they can also controll or bring strong aoe bleed damage builds to take out that trash. Also it seems a lot of the people who don’t agree with me are basically just saying “learn to play.” Also it seems a lot of people who don’t agree with me just demand my post gets taken down and i get perma banned from the forums. If every single bit of arah trash is actually meant to be skipped that’s fine, then that’s working intentionally. For those actually putting meaningful replies thank you. If you don’t agree with what i’m saying, weather you find it ranty or not, at least explain why instead of just stating “learn to play”

Keltach.8049:

also thieves can bring a poison share support build to groups, they can also controll or bring strong aoe bleed damage builds to take out that trash

Hold on, popcorn time.

Btw are you aware of how these (venom builds + conditions in general) are inferior to the well accepted builds?
And yes, its a learn to play issues, since you are really new to this kind of content, thats why you cant understand our points.

Exhibit A:

I’ve never played an mmo where you skip almost every single trash mob just to get to the end boss faster……to make it so that you cant just skip the mass majority of the instance…..skipping almost all of the instance destroys any need for support build and control builds…..

Exhibit B:

…..so every one should use the same abilities because it is the best way to bum rush past all of the mobs….

Keltach.8049:

People keep assuming i’m saying ALL mobs should have it when I’ve clearly only said some

Not what you said to me. You have to kill some stuff in most of the dungeons anyhow. Arah? How about the trash mobs before Lupi or those spiders before p1 ooze boss? How about spiders at the beginning of p2 or the mobs at the beginning of p3. If you aren’t saying all mobs then what? Because mobs are killed just not all of them from point A to point B. But again that isn’t your point if you set the framework as “make it so you can’t skip the mass majority of the instance”. Mass majority means almost all of it running from point A to point B right? Because if it isn’t and your complaint is that no trash is ever killed then that is wrong. For most PuGs there are stuff that gets kill in different dungeons and paths as you are moving from point A to point B. Some are required events and some are not.

Keltach.8049:

thieves can bring a poison share support build to groups, they can also controll or bring strong aoe bleed damage builds to take out that trash. Also it seems a lot of the people who don’t agree with me are basically just saying “learn to play.” Also it seems a lot of people who don’t agree with me just demand my post gets taken down and i get perma banned from the forums. If every single bit of arah trash is actually meant to be skipped that’s fine, then that’s working intentionally. For those actually putting meaningful replies thank you. If you don’t agree with what i’m saying, weather you find it ranty or not, at least explain why instead of just stating “learn to play”

Do you play thief? Poison accomplishes what? If that is all a thief is going to bring if you nerd stealth then that is really weak. At that point you rather just bring something else. Again what is the point of poison and what does it accomplish?

Strong AoE bleeds uhhh what? If that is the case just bring Warrior with bleed trait and they would do significantly better than thief on SB #2. I mean you can go grenade/bomb kit Engi with the bleed on crit trait and that would still be better than SB #2 spam thief. On top of that dps rangers and necros bring bleed on crit traits. So why carry a thief if they are adding things other professions do on top of doing other things?

People say learn to play because based on your post it seems like you have a limited understanding of the issues at hand. As a result, what you are trying to say is completely off base or unrealistic.

Arah trash is meant to be skipped if it wasn’t that dungeon would take a pretty long time. Plus look how they have a TNT switch to kill a bunch of mobs. If that wasn’t intended iono what is. On top of the fact that Arah is big and that trash groups are placed in certain areas. Why do that when the area is big enough that you can avoid them. This shows that trash is intended to be skipped when you don’t need to kill them to proceed.